Should we be vituperative about links that already appeared on BB?

May 29, 2004 7:05 AM

Did someone take over stavros' account?. I think most people disagree with his sentiments, but more importantly the way in which he voices them is entirely uncalled for.
posted by fvw to etiquette/policy at 7:05 AM (191 comments total)

Just for the record, I don't read boing boing, and am glad the link was posted here.

Also, I'm very ashamed of putting a full stop after my question mark.
posted by fvw at 7:06 AM on May 29, 2004

Nobody took over my account. Here at GTM+9 I'm about to go to bed, but please feel free to discuss at will my offensive and inappropriate comments and antisocial attitudes (including my anti-americanism and homolefty-eco-elitism) at will while I sleep.

When I wake up, I'll sing a song or two, dance around a bit, and glare furiously at my interlocuters, all metaphorically speakin'.

Let me leave this nugget before I go, though : Metafilter is meant to be a filter, and reposting the Usual Daily Links, for me, at least, devalues it; although I understand that many newer members use it exclusively for their dose of web-memejection, I think that's lazy, and I understand that my oldschool derision of that could well be considered elitist.

To which my response, is : whatever.

Or, alternately : do better!
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:21 AM on May 29, 2004

Er, GMT.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:21 AM on May 29, 2004

The thing to worry about is the all-important do-we-link-to-them-more-than-they-link-to-us? ratio. Our very worth is determined by our link in/link out score with boingboing.

This is why I like the 'via' bit at the bottom, so if someone did indeed get a link from someplace that isn't in the gestalt, as it were, then it's a bonus find, a pointer to a new source.

In short, stavros is funny so he's allowed to be mean.
posted by Space Coyote at 7:31 AM on May 29, 2004

I enjoy links like this a hell of a lot more than electionfilter04.

At least this is on the right track.

And no I don't read Boing Boing.
posted by ODiV at 7:50 AM on May 29, 2004

Here's a simple rule: don't link to stuff you've seen mentioned more than one other place, ever, and generally not to anything you've seen aggregated elsewhere except in unusual circumstances. If you read boingboing, then you don't copy links from boingboing. If you don't read boingboing, then you can't really avoid copying links from boingboing, can you? But how often will that happen?

The point is that MeFi shouldn't merely be part of the fax/email/officegossip infinite loop; it should be cool stuff you've found that you've good reason to believe other people haven't seen. If you're not reading boingboing, you're going to have trouble recycling boingboing content. And you'll know not to recycle content that was forwarded to you in a mass email, right? Right?

Then there's no problem, is there?
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 7:50 AM on May 29, 2004

Stavros, could this be attributed to your evening intake of adult beverages?

(actually I agree with his point re Boingboing.)
posted by konolia at 7:51 AM on May 29, 2004

I'd be more sympathetic to stavros' position if he had been posted his feelings here to begin with and kept his comments in the thread to a metatalk link.

The post, while less than stellar, might have inspired people to think and talk about pornography, erotica and art, but also about things like modesty and natural beauty. The discussion might have drawn out links to other interesting articles and resources as people talked about it. It might not have been so elevated as that. It might simply been a [this is good] thread being little more than bookmarking of the highlights of the Worth1000 thread, but sometimes that's just how it works. It depends on how people respond.

But now I'd give long odds on either happening now. The filter is now clogged up with other people bitching about how stavros' was bitching. Way to go, wonderchicken.
posted by wobh at 7:52 AM on May 29, 2004

stavros, did David Dark crawl up your ass and infect you or something?

and what wobh said. It was an interesting, fun link.
posted by amberglow at 7:55 AM on May 29, 2004

It's bizarre that with all the basically unfiltered news and other crap that shows up every day on mefi, he decided to go ballastic on a relatively interesting post just because it happened to be linked on BoingBoing. That kinda shit (repeat linsk with slashdot, memepool, boingboing, whatever incestous blog aggregate site is hot), has been happening at least since i first visited mefi, and is inevitable.

It really hasn't ever been a major problem with the site (unlike, say, newsfilter), and I certainly don't see a note on the post a link page describing the need to do a sweep of the entire self-involved blog universe to make sure youre the first to post it.

Anyway, sucky post or not, 50% of that thread is him crapping on it, which is as least a bad a violation of the spirit of mefi as a possibly lousy post.

Normally, I like stavros, but this is just a bizarre and childish tantrum. It's not funny either. Also, Stavros, this has nothing to with your politics, it has to do with you being an ass in this particular case.
posted by malphigian at 7:57 AM on May 29, 2004

I gotta say, Stav, that you went a little more postal on ynoxas and zootoon than was necessary, at least whilst being in-thread. I agree with you that the link was substandard, but that doesn't give you carte blanche to shit on people in the manner that you did, because unfortunately any point you had (which was valid, IMO) was lost due to your extreme bitchiness and over-the-top ad hominem bile. Instead we now talk about you instead of the bad FPP which couldn't have been your intent (although you do mention that you were ready for a MeTa song and dance and glare, so maybe it was your intent...what do I know?).
posted by ashbury at 8:28 AM on May 29, 2004

this is just a bizarre and childish tantrum

Bah. Stirring the pot is a 'tantrum'? Unleashing long-pent criticism of a trend that annoys the piss out of me is a 'tantrum'?

Poop on you. I love this community, and want the best for it, in my own sacralicious way. Disagree with me? That's cool. Spank me all you like, and I might be a Big Bad FistWaver sometimes, but I'm immune to your disapproval. I don't take any of this seriously, except the making of friends. And friends love to disagree and battle about miscellany.

I love this place, and am impatient with those who I perceive are McDonaldizing it. And I am willing to admit that my call might be orthogonal to others', and possibly annoying and wrong. That's life. I can be wrong and obnoxious sometimes in real life too. I know.

I've spent so much time and thought and energy here over the years that I'm fucking allowed. So...slap me down? As you wish! I'll live.

There's no other community in my life -- virtual or otherwise -- that I've invested so much into, these days, expat that I am. I might speak freely at times, but that is to be allowed, from each and every member, as long as they can justify what they say.

But give me more credit than to accuse me of tantrums, please. And have the finesse to understand tone.

Bedtime. Again.

The (semiserious) lesson to be learned is, of course -- as I have many times before over the years and as so many of the Smart And Excellent People Who've Abandoned Metafilter have learned -- is that the impulse is always towards the lowest common denominator here. Not so much the best of as the freshest of. My crankiness has context.

Many wonder why I still struggle against the fresh-squeezed juice flow here, when I'm in the mood. I have my own reasons. Attack me for saying that as you will. S'okay. Quality trumps volume, is my short answer.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:34 AM on May 29, 2004

1) stavrosthewonderchicken's criticism is completely out of place in the blue.

2) stavrosthewonderchicken knows that.

3) stavrosthewonderchicken is conciously abusing the community.
posted by NortonDC at 8:53 AM on May 29, 2004

I've spent so much time and thought and energy here over the years that I'm fucking allowed.

You must understand that stavros has been here so much longer than all of you, and he's so wonderfully popular and funny, a player as it were, so he's a high school senior and I guess everyone else is just frosh.

He owns this high school and will tell you what is proper and what isn't and you just better listen to him.

He'll be MeFi cop when he feels like it and bitch slap you for being too chatty and joking, then he'll turn around and be chatty and joking right back when he feels like it.

He'll go off on you in what might just be a tantrum, then potentially call down the wrath of God if you suggest it was alcohol-induced.

This is the essence of stavros. He's too damn cool for everyone else and he does what he pleases.

So suck it up, okay?

There's no other community in my life -- virtual or otherwise -- that I've invested so much into, these days, expat that I am.

Sorry, stav, I guess I shouldn't be so harsh. But you come off as so damn haughty and sanctimonious and it really is insulting sometimes. Your excuse that it is all because you care so much about MeFi wears thin, and sometimes you just come off as one of the cool kids from the insider's clique on a power trip. Maybe you should change your approach a little, or even step away from the computer and invest some time in some non-virtual communities. It's not our fault you're an expat.
posted by Shane at 9:01 AM on May 29, 2004

I guess I was just confused as to how a decent, but overexposed link would draw your wrath when there is a constant stream of crap links from major news sources.

Yes thank you. I do want to keep hearing about 9/11 for the rest of my natural life, sure. No, I don't mind that you're posting it to a site that is not at all intended for political discourse or the propagation of the New York Times. Yes, I realize that the importance of your country's politics trumps all possible arguments against this. No. I don't mind.
posted by ODiV at 9:03 AM on May 29, 2004

Unleashing long-pent criticism of a trend that annoys the piss out of me is a 'tantrum'?

Uh, yeah? I'd say so.

Look stavros, I love ya, and I love that you've been around a while, but there's no way to make sure that everyone on the site has seen every other site you have, even the most popular ones. It's just a fact of life that MeFi is going to be imperfect that way. You totally went off on that post so much that I'm inclined to just remove the off-topic comments. You basically told someone "fuck you and the horse you rode in on" over an innocent, amusing link that happened to be on BoingBoing yesterday.

To make this analogy clear, we're all at my house for a cocktail party and someone just mentioned a topic of conversation you had already discussed at length at a huge party the previous night. Now, would you say to the person "oh fuck you don't bring that shit up again, jesus christ didn't we already talk about this before?!"

Seriously stav, chill out. I know there are sometimes a lot of reposted links, but there's not much we can do to eliminate it because they may very well be new to the people that found them on an obscure, non-BoingBoing site.
posted by mathowie at 9:04 AM on May 29, 2004

Wow. That thread never really had a chance. Too bad. For the record, I don't read boing boing so I count on MeFi to bring this stuff to my attention.
posted by vito90 at 9:05 AM on May 29, 2004

stavros has -- certainly not politely, it's hard to defend his manners in this case, not that he needs to -- made a point debated a lot around here for years. should MeFi recycle material that has already appeared in other popular sites (boingboing, /. , etc) or not? many people feel passionately about such topics, no matter how much dead-horse-topics they can seem. we haven't resolved the issue of MetaRecycleFilter until now, I doubt we ever will (well, only Matt can of course, by deciding to delete those threads -- he hasn't, mostly, until now, because he doesn't agree with stav's position on this issue)

on preview: exactly. mathowie spake.


could this be attributed to your evening intake of adult beverages?

this is fucking uncalled for. especially since it's coming from someone who should really know better.
posted by matteo at 9:19 AM on May 29, 2004

Matteo, chill. He knows me well enough to know I am kidding with him, and heaven knows enough people around here have confessed to posting under the influence. Besides, it would explain his blowup at what is generally seen as a minor annoyance.

And if what I said did piss him off, he certainly is capable of fussing with me directly.
posted by konolia at 11:46 AM on May 29, 2004

Please disregard my jocularity as I will soon be drinking cold beer on a terribly hot day, and I'm giddy with anticipation.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 2:09 AM PST on May 29

Kiss my ass, son.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:45 AM PST on May 29
posted by timeistight at 11:52 AM on May 29, 2004

Sometimes I read Metafilter just as a spectacle.
posted by DaShiv at 11:57 AM on May 29, 2004

I keep a squeaky toy by the back door
in case the dog runs outside.

Staving pogostick outrage.
diatribes that halt pretense
machinegun the metaroom
fade then rise, glowstick hope and
rumour of wells run dry.

haul me to the keel and tickle someone,
anyone will do in a pinch.
posted by clavdivs at 12:04 PM on May 29, 2004

MoreEqualThanOtherAnimalsFilter
posted by y2karl at 12:09 PM on May 29, 2004

Hmmm… I'm sorry. That came across as kind of mean if not "fucking uncalled for". (Wouldn't "un-fucking-called-for" read better matteo?)

I don't know (or care) whether stavros was worse for wear when he posted that, but, while I disagree with him about the BoingBoing thing, it's worth noting that he didn't start swearing until after Ynoxas told him to "shut the fuck up".

I have to go walk the dog now.
posted by timeistight at 12:17 PM on May 29, 2004

Actually, timeistight, look at the stav's second comment - which was the response to a very mild remonstrance.

And, matteo, I think the question of whether or not stavros had a valid argument became moot almost immediately. If you really want to make a point, you don't use a blunt instrument. (If the complaint is really just an excuse to see some blood flow, then blunt instruments are dandy for the job, but we expect more interesting devices from those who consider themselves pain artists.)
posted by taz at 12:25 PM on May 29, 2004

He knows me well enough to know I am kidding with him

well, then why don't you e-mail him, if it's meant as a joke. if your comment is public, it really looks bad. accusations of drunkenness/mental illness/etc as explanation for users behavior should be kept out of discussion here. (if, next time you comment and somebody accuses you of writing under the influence of a, let's say, chemical imbalance, it'll be a disgrace. even if they're kidding -- or they think they are -- with you, it'd be shameful)

"you're drunk" snarks don't make the site look good, that's all. even if they're meant in jest because of a supposed friendship between users. we have already reached the point where "I don't agree with you hence you're a troll" is the rule. getting to the point where "I dont' agree with you hence you must be drunk/crazy/etc" is way out of line. way, way out of line.

If you really want to make a point, you don't use a blunt instrument

of course. agreed. and my posting history shows that I'm very much against FuckYouFilter. or EthnicSlurFilter.
posted by matteo at 12:48 PM on May 29, 2004

Here's a simple rule: don't link to stuff you've seen mentioned more than one other place, ever, and generally not to anything you've seen aggregated elsewhere except in unusual circumstances.

Um, no offense but what black vortex did you pull this rule out of? Unless it's been linked to here, then anything outside of MeFi is pretty much fair game. If it sucks ass, it will die a quiet death (sometimes not so quiet). Sure, we strive for unique, never-before-seen links but with the trillion or so sites out there, something is bound to have been referenced elsewhere. Just a referesher:

A good post to MetaFilter is something that meets the following criteria: most people haven't seen it before, there is something interesting about the content on the page, and it might warrant discussion from others.
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 1:04 PM on May 29, 2004

Rule of thumb. If it's appeared several places, then it's most likely that most people will have seen it before. Not so complicated, is it?
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 1:12 PM on May 29, 2004

"you're drunk" snarks don't make the site look good, that's all

Have you actually read this thread?

I'm thinking alcohol -- and lots of it -- could only help.
posted by cedar at 1:31 PM on May 29, 2004

Insulting fellow users isn't really on the list of ways to improve the community.
posted by Hildago at 1:36 PM on May 29, 2004

Have you actually read this thread?

heh. I did, yes.
anyway "have you actually read this thread" throwaway snarks are really, really constructive
posted by matteo at 1:44 PM on May 29, 2004

Goodness. Talk about projection.

Stavros is in bed now, hopefully knocking one out for the home team. He'll wake up far happier tomorrow, and this will all have turned out to be a but a gust in the hurricane that is MeTa.
posted by five fresh fish at 1:55 PM on May 29, 2004

Wow. Shit storm central...
posted by kaibutsu at 1:56 PM on May 29, 2004

It's saddening when a harmless and uncontroversial post gets such ugly treatment. I had not seen the link.

From my experience, virtual and at a distance though it may be, stavros is more a teddy bear than a werewolf when lit up. He can be mean but it usually comes with a state of sobriety.

I've spent so much time and thought and energy here over the years that I'm fucking allowed.

That caught the eye. I can't believe he really meant that--it is so offensive and indefensible. Hence my previous comment upthread.

I am assuming that this crash and burn has something to do with something entirely unrelated. Not his points, mind you, but the vituperation--it is so far and above what was called for. I am operating under the People Are Never Angry About What Is At Hand theory of inappropriate venting here. I could be wrong but it's not's inappropriate to consider one never knows what real world cares and worries plague anyone's mind at any given time.

I don't like it when stavros turns on people--for being so prone to dishing it out in overample portions, he is very thin skinned and, in retort, doesn't know when to say when.
posted by y2karl at 2:18 PM on May 29, 2004

well, then why don't you e-mail him, if it's meant as a joke. if your comment is public, it really looks bad. accusations of drunkenness/mental illness/etc as explanation for users behavior should be kept out of discussion here. (if, next time you comment and somebody accuses you of writing under the influence of a, let's say, chemical imbalance, it'll be a disgrace. even if they're kidding -- or they think they are -- with you, it'd be shameful)

If Stavros said something to me about posting-while-bipolar, I'd laugh. Heaven knows I've been guilty of it.

Stavros had already posted that day that he was going to be having some beers. Most of the people on Metafilter do drink, and some-including Stavros if memory serves-have mentioned posting while tipsy. And the load of vitriol he'd dumped in that thread was really pretty unusual for him.

Sorry, Matteo, I don't think what I did in this particular instance was bad. If Stavvy disagrees, I will happily apologize. But knowing him as long as I have, I really didn't think he would find the remark objectionable. If I had thought he would, I wouldn't have said it.

And if I had posted something equally as vituperative, you better believe there would be a whole lineup of comments speculating on my mental state. That's just the Metafilter way.
posted by konolia at 2:35 PM on May 29, 2004

But which places, exactly, should people look before posting? I'd venture to say that there are precious few links anywhere that haven't been posted several different places, in some context, before they show up here. There are a whole lot of [This is good] FPPs that I've already seen, but I think that I visit more obscure sites than it seems most members do. Point is, while I can understand thinking that a BoingBoing link is overplayed, exactly where is that line drawn? What sites qualify as popular/overlapping with the MeFi demographic enough to rule out posting here?

It's inevitable that not every single link will be new to you. I'm just not seeing how that merits the level of, you know, crankiness that this has called up.
posted by LittleMissCranky at 2:41 PM on May 29, 2004

stavros is funny so he's allowed to be mean

Please don't encourage him. He's already convinced that he's fucking allowed. He's got the most cast-iron sense of self-righteousness I've ever seen; he knows he knows what's right and good, so he can be as much of a jerk as he feels like being, and if you call him on it he either insults you or, if he's in a good mood, makes some smug remark that lets you know he's letting you live out of his infinite sense of noblesse oblige. He is, after all, an internationally recognized writer and bon vivant, while you, you are just a loser who spends too much time on the internet. Since he's generally a force for good, and he does write well, he gets away with his act. But please don't encourage him.

Oh, and for what it's worth, I don't read Boing Boing and was glad to have the link posted. But obviously I'm a loser who doesn't spend enough time on the internet.
posted by languagehat at 2:46 PM on May 29, 2004

"anyway "have you actually read this thread" throwaway snarks are really, really constructive."

Shucks, matteo. It really wasn't my intention to upset you, I just wanted to point out that in light of this thread I found it amusing that you were concerned that questioning someones sobriety was "making the site look bad."

That ship has sailed.

Anyway, I have to go roast a chicken, a quite wonderful plump chicken. I'm going to stick a beer can up it's ass, put it on a spit and flame the fucker until it's a pleasing golden brown, yet tender and juicy on the inside.
posted by cedar at 2:50 PM on May 29, 2004

Normally, I like stavros, but this is just a bizarre and childish tantrum. It's not funny either.

Agreed on all counts.

Bizarre and childish tantrums by long-standing members do no less harm to the site than those by day-old newbies, and I dream of the day when all are penalized equally. If this were my site, the wonderchicken would be on a period of enforced bedrest right now.
posted by rushmc at 2:55 PM on May 29, 2004

"But which places, exactly, should people look before posting? I'd venture to say that there are precious few links anywhere that haven't been posted several different places, in some context, before they show up here."—LittleMissCranky

Ah, but see, that's why I very carefully phrased my point the way that I did. I wasn't advocating that people check other sites before posting; just that they don't post links that they've seen at any other high-profile site (and especially more than one). If a person only reads MeFi, they're not obligated to look at other sites before posting—because, where'd they find the link if they don't read other sites? Did they just stumble upon it on their own? Well, fine, sometimes that means a newbie (or net newbie) will post something we've all seen before; but at least it'll happen on an essentially random basis. Not, in contrast, to a "link of the day that's appearing everywhere" basis. Don't regurgitate links that look like they've already been chewed over and digested. This doesn't seem that complicated to me.

So I agree and disagree with Stav. I agree that one shouldn't post links that are making the rounds. I disagree that prima facie a link that appeared on another site is necessarily a repost from that site. What matters is where the poster found (and has seen) the link, not where it's appeared.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 3:20 PM on May 29, 2004

it's worth noting that he didn't start swearing until after Ynoxas told him to "shut the fuck up".

Timeistight: he busted the F word TWICE before I did. First saying "fuck that", in bold no less. Then, calling everyone fucking amateurs. This is before I told him to shut the fuck up.

Which I stand by. He SHOULD shut the fuck up. I don't care who he is, what he does, how long he's been here, or what divine birthright he believes he has to this place. He was out of line, way out of line, and someone needed to tell him to stuff it in the style of his own vernacular.

A tiny bit of research next time before wagging your finger? All you had to do was, you know, read a couple of lines.

languagehat: amen
posted by Ynoxas at 4:08 PM on May 29, 2004

i bet boingboing doesn't have the geek test. not sure what conclusion to draw from that. perhaps that stavros could have chosen his target more carefully?

cedar - won't the can explode?
posted by andrew cooke at 4:09 PM on May 29, 2004

don't post links that they've seen at any other high-profile site (and especially more than one)

As has been pointed out, Metafilter is a Filter. Now, I'm gathering other people have a different interpretation of what that means. For me, it means it sorts out the crap of the day and gives me the goods. It means Metafilter should be the only site I have to visit to see all that's good on the web. Therefore, "memes of the day" should be expected to appear here sooner or later - if they didn't, Metafilter wouldn't be doing it's job.

If we were to enforce all these arbitrary rules about what can and can't be posted (No Iraq, No politics, No macintosh, No Bush-bashing, No links that have appeared on BoingBoing, No links that have appeared on Slashdot, No links about new albums, No links about bands breaking up)...what would we have left? You can't expect every link to be truly original and never seen before or we would have a posting rate of about one per week. That would be a true reduction in quality. Ask.metafilter is already beating the blue in terms of post turnover.

That post was certainly not a crime worthy of that kind of nastiness.
posted by Jimbob at 4:16 PM on May 29, 2004

I read boing boing everyday BEFORE i read metafilter, and I am not surprised boing boing links make it to the mefi front page - because, boing boing is *consistently* a provider of THE BEST OF THE WEB.

On this fact alone, i don't mind the double up/triple up/ etc on linkage, because the web is about proliferation, distribution and sharing, and not about old school values like exclusivity and closed-community bullshit. Sites don't "own" links, nobody owns links, the only element of ownership in the web equation is whoever owns the destination site being linked to. We are all in this together, right?

i call shenanigans on stavs BS too (despite my like for the ol' wonderous chicken).
posted by elphTeq at 4:29 PM on May 29, 2004

I would like to take a moment to let you all know that I am cooler than all of you.
posted by Stan Chin at 4:31 PM on May 29, 2004

stavros raised my rent by $50 in the dead of winter!
posted by crunchburger at 4:33 PM on May 29, 2004

ps. I don't understand why boing boing is so maligned considering how much good stuff it propogates on the web ... people, boing boing is on our side, dammit.
posted by elphTeq at 4:38 PM on May 29, 2004

I'd already been here eleven weeks by the time you snuck in, Ynoxas, so I think I'm fucking allowed to wave my finger at you if I want and have you take it and like it.

Okay, maybe not. Truth be told, I think you both went a bit off the rails there.

I liked your link, by the way.
posted by timeistight at 4:40 PM on May 29, 2004

Does Stavros have a previously admitted drink problem, matteo? Because otherwise I don't see your objection to insinuating he's posting drunk. I've never really read anything like that from him, and I'd just assumed there was something more than the thread going on. Drink is only one possible.

Is it equivalent to asking an irritated woman if she has her period, in your eyes? It isn't to me.
posted by bonaldi at 4:43 PM on May 29, 2004

i bet boingboing doesn't have the geek test. not sure what conclusion to draw from that.

Ha! I stopped reading boingboing because it was just too geeky for me (I got tired of seeing links to new "casemods" and Disney fanboy links)

Anyways, I think stav went off on an innocent bystander. Ironically, Zootoon's weblog is a favorite of mine, filled as it is with great Art links. I'd venture we don't get better posts here for two reasons:

1) Posters, especially newbies, are afraid of exactly the kind of thing that just happened - someone dropping a bomb in your post or calling you out for a double-post or whatever. Why then bother? Life is short.
I mean, if you post a link to an article on msnbc (as someone did two posts up) at least you know it won't be a double-post.

2) The best posts get no comments. Right now, I just spent the past 30 minutes reading the links from mdn's post, the best one on the front page right now in my opinion. I should probably drop in a note and thank her. Either way,she wont get as many comments as a news post or a "take this dumb test and tell us all your score" link.
Few comments feels like you threw a party and nobody came.
posted by vacapinta at 4:44 PM on May 29, 2004

Because otherwise I don't see your objection to insinuating he's posting drunk.

Let's not worry so much about the drunk accusation from konolia. konolia and Miguel and a number of others are buds with stav over on the 9622 MeFi spinoff site. They're close, and they're not worried about pissing him off.
posted by Shane at 5:38 PM on May 29, 2004

so boingboing is the "huge party" and we're just the "cocktail party"? Say it ain't so, matt!

metafilter rulez! boingboing suxorz!

(except for cory's posts, haha)
posted by rhyax at 6:06 PM on May 29, 2004

Which I stand by. He SHOULD shut the fuck up. I don't care who he is, what he does, how long he's been here, or what divine birthright he believes he has to this place. He was out of line, way out of line, and someone needed to tell him to stuff it in the style of his own vernacular.

A tiny bit of research next time before wagging your finger? All you had to do was, you know, read a couple of lines.

With all apologies necessary to Ynoxas, but that comment reads so much better if you say it like Londo Mollari.
posted by Cyrano at 6:08 PM on May 29, 2004

"I've spent so much time and thought and energy here over the years that I'm fucking allowed."

That caught the eye. I can't believe he really meant that--it is so offensive and indefensible. Hence my previous comment upthread.

It's a stupid, ballsy thing to say, yeah. But then again, it only strikes me as shocking because it's reflexive in this case.

Every time quonsar (as an example [or maybe even an archetype?] ) spawns a shitstorm and gets hand-slapped or banned for a week (or doesn't), there are comments from oldschoolers and more recent members about how, yes, sure, what q said could be taken badly, yes, he's being a bit abrasive, but he's quonsar, he's ours, he's funny, you need that sort of thing on the site, he's been here forever and he's just sort of, you know, fucking allowed.

Which some agree with and some disagree with and that becomes part of the shitstorm too, usually, but the point is nobody really blanches, no one objects to the validity of the statement itself -- no one calls it "so offensive and indefensible."

Likely, had someone else said it in Stav's defense here, no one would have done so either.

But, granted, he said it himself, which is very presumptuous -- but on the other hand, is it less true if he says it than if someone else does? Is the offensive and indefensible act that of self-awareness?

Just struck me as interesting.
posted by cortex at 6:19 PM on May 29, 2004

I'd just like to pop in here to say that boingboing really does suck, both in design and content. I have no idea why everyone seems to wank over it so much.
posted by reklaw at 6:56 PM on May 29, 2004

Woohoo! Knives out!

That's OK, I'm a big boy, and I did say some things that might have been more...er, delicately phrased. Or better yet, not phrased at all. So a good spanking is in order.

He is, after all, an internationally recognized writer and bon vivant

No, that's Miguel. I'm an internationally recognized loudmouth and doofus.

For what it's worth, I had had a few drinks last night (a fairly rare thing these days) and was on the 'filter while bent (an extreme rarity these days), so it's not outside the realm of possibility that my vociferousness was booze-fueled to an extent. For that, I would apologize.

With regard to the 'fucking allowed' comment, well, you'll just have to take that as you like. Which would be badly, it seems, for the most part, judging by this thread. Ah well. Some things can't be taken back.

Also : boingboing ROCKS. Consistently worth the time. If you do not read it, you should. It really deserves to be the most-linked weblog on the planet.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:26 PM on May 29, 2004

Oh Stavros!

*everyone heartily laughs, cue freeze frame, superimpose Executive Producers and fade to commercials*
posted by Stan Chin at 7:28 PM on May 29, 2004

posting-while-bipolar

b****f**e to thread!

Taking Sides: posting widely seen links to metafilter vs. pooping on posting widely seen links to metafilter.
posted by octobersurprise at 7:30 PM on May 29, 2004

I really should step up my pointless MetaTalk posting, as I'm not really soaking up my assigned spanking quota.

I'm currently working on a profound, meteorological question which has been troubling me of late and which, with a bit of luck should make a great MetaFilter-related post. Sure, it's still a bit short and stark but just let me sail it past you:

"Phew! What a scorcher! Hot enough for you, wherever you are? I wonder how weather conditions affect posting on the Blue. There are definitely cold, stay-inside, slightly claustrophobic posts on the one hand and sunny, out-and-about, cocktails-on-the-verandah posts. But what about in-between weather, neither hot or cold? Is there such a thing as an overcast post or a brief-spells-of-sunshine-with-scattered-showers sort of post?

I wonder, er, whether we're not missing out on a fundamental contributory factor here - akin to habitual drunkenness and socialism - which may help us deal with certain personal "climates" and the odd storm or two.

So - what's the weather been like round where you live? Up to expectations or miserably unseasonable? How is it affecting your tennis elbow? And how would you classify MetaFilter along a Tropical/Mediterranean/North Atlantic/Arctic continuum?"

As I said, it's still too bare and needs amplification (not enough questions, for instance) but I think, with a bit of work, I could have just the post we all need.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 7:58 PM on May 29, 2004

Miguel, where have you been? I was worried.
posted by konolia at 8:05 PM on May 29, 2004

Oh, and since we are in the Land of Nonsequitur, now seems a good a place as any to announce I have a lifesize cardboard cutout of George W. Bush in my living room.
posted by konolia at 8:08 PM on May 29, 2004

So, can I pull the chicken feathers out of my ass now?
They tickle! ;-P
posted by mischief at 8:19 PM on May 29, 2004

Konolia:
Do you throw darts at it?
Do you talk to it?
What does this cutout do?
Is it more effective and does it make more sense than the real life-size George W. Bush?
posted by ashbury at 8:23 PM on May 29, 2004

"Phew! What a scorcher! Hot enough for you, wherever you are? I wonder how weather conditions affect posting on the Blue. There are definitely cold, stay-inside, slightly claustrophobic posts on the one hand and sunny, out-and-about, cocktails-on-the-verandah posts. But what about in-between weather, neither hot or cold? Is there such a thing as an overcast post or a brief-spells-of-sunshine-with-scattered-showers sort of post?

This sounds like Miguel parodying Stan Chin parodying Miguel. This is all very Meta.
posted by vacapinta at 8:26 PM on May 29, 2004

Don't regurgitate links that look like they've already been chewed over and digested. This doesn't seem that complicated to me.


Ethereal Bligh: Remind me not to ask you which web links are "regurgitatated," "chewed over and digested." Because they don't get more ancient than this.
posted by eyeballkid at 8:28 PM on May 29, 2004

...but I think, with a bit of work, I could have just the post we all need.

Dept. of Credit Where Credit is Due:

Miguel, that was a brilliant self-parody!

...since we are in the Land of Nonsequitur, now seems a good a place as any to announce I have a lifesize cardboard cutout of George W. Bush in my living room.

Okay, I'll play the admissions game: I'm smashed on Rolling Rock and banging my head to Cheap Trick at Budokan. See? I get nice when I'm pissed as a rail ;-)

Good night now ladies and gentlemen
Good night now ladies and gents.
That's the end of the show, now it's time to go.

Good night now ladies and gentlemen
Good night now ladies and gents.
That's the end of the show, now it's time to go.

Would you like to do a number with me?
Would you like to do a number with me?
Would you like to, would you like to,
Would you like to do a number with me?

(Repeat 1X)

Cheap Trick says goodnight!

[-Bun E. Carlos drum solo/Rick Nielsen guitar solo-]

You made me cry
When you said goodbye
Ain't that a shame?
My tears fall like rain...
posted by Shane at 8:29 PM on May 29, 2004

What does this cutout do?

Actually it would be perfect for photo ops.
posted by konolia at 8:33 PM on May 29, 2004

Does a cut-out Bush look any less vapid than the real-life Bush?
posted by five fresh fish at 8:36 PM on May 29, 2004

Maybe my sarcasm detecter is broken, but it seems WoderChicken was being a smartass with that first post (which, with the lack of tone and all on the net is hard to detect)...or am I wrong?

if your comment is public, it really looks bad. accusations of drunkenness/mental illness/etc as explanation for users behavior should be kept out of discussion here.
Pray tell, WHY? To ignore these as factors of one's posting habits is to ignore reality. Factors such as being drunk and bi-polar affect people's habits. Should we just ignore these influences like they don't exist?

well, then why don't you e-mail him, if it's meant as a joke.
Along with what's been said, maybe we ought to ban all smartass remarks, cause', ya know- they could be taken the wrong way.
posted by jmd82 at 8:37 PM on May 29, 2004

"Does Stavros have a previously admitted drink problem, matteo? Because otherwise I don't see your objection to insinuating he's posting drunk."

Insinuations make us all look like assholes, which is unfortunate as the english language is subject to second guessing. I will now assume there are people out there thinking of a better word for what I just said, subconsciously placating my writing ability as their eyes dart across the screen.


Stavros, its cool you've been here a long time, and I see some good writing come out of your prose, as with a good amount of other members. Don't stoop to "their" level, but don't use tenure as a reason.
posted by Keyser Soze at 8:56 PM on May 29, 2004

ahem.... the written english language was what I was aiming for.
posted by Keyser Soze at 8:57 PM on May 29, 2004

EBK: That's odd. I don't recall posting that link. Oh, wait, I didn't.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 10:30 PM on May 29, 2004

As usual when BoingBoing comes up, I'll claim ignorance (although quonsar did helpfully point out once that it has something to do with a dreamcast or an xbox or something). Therefore, I could care less if someone links to something from this "Boing Boing" website, since I don't read it and never will.

As for the rest of the outburst and subsequent metatalk thread that I've skipped entirely, allow me to express my deepest indifference.

C-.
posted by The God Complex at 10:58 PM on May 29, 2004

I think most people disagree with his sentiments

Once again, I am happy and proud not to be "most people."

Rock on, stavros. Though I suppose you too must do what you can not to let grumpy turn into rude. We all must.
posted by scarabic at 11:03 PM on May 29, 2004

I like to watch.
posted by uncanny hengeman at 11:12 PM on May 29, 2004

"I have a lifesize cardboard cutout of George W. Bush in my living room."

This is the least-surprising thing I have ever read.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 11:27 PM on May 29, 2004

Metafilter: Come for the links, stay for the never ending bitch fest.
posted by chunking express at 11:28 PM on May 29, 2004

The more I read threads like this the more I understand quonsar. Keep it up.
posted by snarfodox at 11:55 PM on May 29, 2004

Me, I just drink in moderation, and not at a computer screen.

All my jackass comments are made stone-fucking-sober, with razor clarity and methodical preparation. Watching me gear up to make a comment is like watching a surgeon getting ready to pull out a bullet that is half an inch away from the President's spinal cord. I scrub up until my hands are pink and boiled, then I snap on the latex gloves.

Shut up. It's a great analogy. My comments are meant to save lives.
posted by Hildago at 11:57 PM on May 29, 2004

Let's shoot Stav out of the Mefi Cannon.
posted by PrinceValium at 12:01 AM on May 30, 2004

Build it, and they will come.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 2:25 AM on May 30, 2004

"Think of it, Grahill! Think what we've seen in the last few days! An upheaval! A tumult! A whip-sawed rift in the very fabric of the MetaUniverse! What could have caused it? What do you think, Grahill?"

"What do I think, Opus? I think you should stop flapping your gums and start helping me mop up this slime - that's what I think."

"This isn't ordinary slime, Grahill. This is nonclassical borgesian protoplasm - a very exotic, airborne protoplasm - quite rare and reclusive. My theory is that some among the latest crop of newbies emit a peculiar sequence of microtonal demisemiquavers which attracts this obscure and virulent variant. How else to explain these recent irrational outbreaks, and the truly bizarre behaviour of some of our most tenured members?"

"We don't have to explain it, Opus, we just have to clean it up. Now if you wouldn't mind dipping your virgin mop into that mound of glop right over there -."

"Ah, Grahill, your sense of wonder may defer to your duty, but my only duty is to my sense of wonder!"

"Opus, it's shit like that that makes me want to slide this mop handle right up your -."

"It sweats, Grahill! The MetaUniverse sweats! It coughs up bile, it stinks of nervous exertion, it clogs its own arteries with slime. Has it, at long last, become immune to its own fragile glamour? Are we witnessing - Grahill! - what do you think you're doing with that mop!"
posted by Opus Dark at 3:18 AM on May 30, 2004

what Jimbob said - i don't visit boingboing, or any other popular weblog. i don't have the time. where is everyone getting all this spare surfing time...?! i hate you all.

So a good spanking is in order

you see, these tantrums stav throws... it's just his way of goading us into giving him what he really wants. *gets well worn birch paddle out...*

I have a lifesize cardboard cutout of George W. Bush in my living room.

i have lifesize cardboard cutouts of darth maul, queen amidala, xena warrior princess, and the rock in my den. you may now feel 4/5th's more sane than i apparently am 8-)
posted by t r a c y at 3:40 AM on May 30, 2004

GIRLS:
A spanking! A spanking! There is going to be a spanking tonight!
DINGO:
And after the spanking, the oral sex.
GIRLS:
The oral sex! The oral sex!
GALAHAD:
Well, I could stay a bit longer.


Also, Opus Dark is a genius.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:12 AM on May 30, 2004

Poster 1: All of you can go to hell! You're stupid and you smell bad.

Poster 2: WTF? Is Poster 1 drinking?

Poster 3: How DARE you even suggest Poster 1 is drinking? The very insinuation is insulting!

Poster 1: Actually, I was drinking.

Poster 4-99: Aww, that's our Poster 1.


Ridiculous.
posted by Ynoxas at 5:57 AM on May 30, 2004

Poster 4-99: Aww, that's our Poster 1.

Hardly. What's the matter, Ynoxas? Not enough blood in the water for you?

Read this thread. People were lining up to take a shot at me, and many did -- some, like languagehat, being particularly noteable in their unseemly enthusiasm to put the boots in -- but I deserved it, I guess, and I apologized.

I spazzed out. It happens. I'm sorry.

What else do you want?
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:27 AM on May 30, 2004

I deserved it, I guess, and I apologized.

Absolutely on the first and a pathetic mistakes were made non-apology for an apology for the second.

You're turning into a regular G.W. Bush on the infallibility meter, stavros.
posted by y2karl at 7:06 AM on May 30, 2004

Actually it would be perfect for photo ops.

Excellent. Paint the clothes off and we'll be right over to take some smiley torture pics.
posted by rushmc at 7:35 AM on May 30, 2004

some, like languagehat, being particularly noteable in their unseemly enthusiasm to put the boots in

See, now, I was going to be gracious and not say anything more, since you made a rather handsome admission of your own bad behavior (although the apology as such was pretty conditional and remote), but you just couldn't resist whining, could you? It's one of your least attractive qualities that you can dish it out copiously, counting on your wacky charm to win everyone over later, but you can't take it one little bit. You pretend you can ("Oh yeah, I deserved that, yup!"), but that's because you realize how unattractive a quality hypocrisy is. And yet you can't resist the whine: "Waah, he poked me!"

What's ridiculous is that I've been one of your biggest fans since I've been here; I enjoy your wild-edged style, your robust sense of humor, and your concern for the welfare of this messy place. But, like Colonel Kurtz out there in the jungle, you've gotten to where you want to be not just respected but worshipped. A while back I wrote something you didn't like and you sent me an aggrieved e-mail starting "Fuck you." When I responded with "Fuck you too" (along with an explanation of why I'd written what I did), you wrote back along the lines of "Aha, touchy aren't you!" (I'm not going to go back and check your wording, partly because I'm feeling lazy and partly because it's not good form to quote e-mails anyway -- I just want to give the general sense of the exchange.) I tried to smooth things over, because I'd like us to be on good terms, but I finally realized there was no talking to you; you're too wrapped up in your solipsistic view of the world. But I find it very interesting that you whine about me by name, when I took care to say "he's generally a force for good, and he does write well," whereas you ignore the nastier attacks of people who seem not to appreciate your better qualities. I guess you find them easier to ignore. Anyway...

What else do you want?

I, for one, want you to grow up. And if you fuck up, take your medicine and don't whine. (And if in the future you post something wildly stupid and someone says "Is stavros drunk again," don't get all pissy and self-righteous, 'kay? It's... what was that word you used? Oh yeah... unseemly.)
posted by languagehat at 8:33 AM on May 30, 2004

i have lifesize cardboard cutouts of darth maul, queen amidala, xena warrior princess, and the rock in my den. you may now feel 4/5th's more sane than i apparently am 8-)

No Buffy standup? Hmph. And you say I'm the one who isn't a real Buffy fan ;-)
posted by Shane at 9:37 AM on May 30, 2004

What I want to know is, when and where will the spanking take place? I vote we have it in konolia's living room.
posted by orange swan at 9:47 AM on May 30, 2004

Yeah, stavros, you pretty much didn't apologize at all. I wasn't sure you intended to apologize. I thought you were just being sarcastic.
posted by Hildago at 10:06 AM on May 30, 2004

I vote that the spanking takes place in whatever country it was where that American got caned for vandalizing the car. That way our comedians will have some more material. It will be like a renaissance of spanking jokes.

Also, don't ever try to use Google to find out anything involving the word spanking.
posted by Hildago at 10:11 AM on May 30, 2004

I kinda relate to Stav, actually. He has these bad tendencies that he actually recognizes and tries to moderate, but they get the best of him every now and then. Well, okay, that's like most of us.

Anyway, as infuriating as an almost-apology is, it's better than a non-apology and much better than no apology of any kind, ever, because really, it's all your fault and you deserved it anyway and be glad that I wasn't even more vicious than I was, okay?

You know, those kind. They're not uncommon around these parts.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 10:21 AM on May 30, 2004

Yes, but we need less off it.

I, for one, want you to grow up. And if you fuck up, take your medicine and don't whine.

A-men.

I'm as amused by the cult of personality as much as most, probably, but when it takes precedent over the need to do decent things like apologize and being penitent when you really step over the line, it's not only not at all cool, you end up moving from the realm of community to the realm of clique.
posted by namespan at 12:29 PM on May 30, 2004

shut the fuck up, stavros.
posted by angry modem at 1:10 PM on May 30, 2004

last night I dreamt I made a comment on this thread
posted by mr.marx at 2:01 PM on May 30, 2004

Grahill knobs
posted by clavdivs at 2:16 PM on May 30, 2004

If you are all coming to my living room, someone needs to bring snacks.
posted by konolia at 3:58 PM on May 30, 2004

last night I dreamt I made a comment on this thread
No hope, No harm, just another false alarm.
posted by fvw at 3:58 PM on May 30, 2004

What Jimbob said, too. Also, let he who has never been nasty to someone here fire the first shot at stavrosthewonderchicken.
posted by dg at 4:29 PM on May 30, 2004

shut the fuck up, stavros.

No.

You're turning into a regular G.W. Bush on the infallibility meter, stavros.

And you're the same slightly-spooky unpredictably cranky old axe-grinder you've been since day 1, karl.

A while back I wrote something you didn't like and you sent me an aggrieved e-mail starting "Fuck you."

So many of your disparaging comments about me in recent months (and twice now in this thread) have been clearly based on that email exchange, which you have now so gracelessly brought up here. Get over it, man. Your hectoring and holier-than-thou nannying (which others have mentioned here on the site and which reached a thundering crescendo in your 'private' correspondance) coupled with your penchant for amateur psychoanalysis are truly tiresome.

I can't take it? I've taken worse, from better men than you. I wasn't whining, by any stretch of the imagination -- if anything I was pointing and chuckling over what a petty little bitch you apparently can be. Hell, I've bent over and taken it with goodnatured grace in this thread, and each and every time I've been spanked before for bad behaviour in the past, I've fessed up, showed my contrition in good faith, and assumed that that was that.

Apparently that is not that for those who enjoy the pileon so much. So here's a stiff central digit to you, once again, Steve, with cherries on top. mmkay? That you seem so convinced of the truth of your 'insights' into my massive personality faults does not in any way make those observations accurate. That you've never met me, never interacted with me in any meaningful way -- excepting your interaction on this website with a deliberately-crafted avatar -- and yet you are so willing and frequently driven to flights of extrapolative fancy with regard to 'what I'm really like'... well, I'm afraid that makes you look like as much of an ass as you insist that I am.

But me, contrary to your claims, I recognize what an errant fool I can sometimes be. You, it seems, not so much.


Here, then, for the wrong reasons this time, but nonetheless equally as contrite (which, for the parsers out there, is genuinely contrite) : I'm sorry I flew off the handle.

'Kiss my ass, son' was out of line. It was in response to 'shut the fuck up,' which I submit was equally out of line, but swapping insult for insult is no way to behave.

I shouldn't have said 'fuck that' in this comment. It was impolite and disrespectful, and 'I disagree' would have made the point just as well.

'Fucking amateurs' was a joke, but in the context, didn't lighten the tenor and instead was taken personally by Ynoxas, who justifiably took offense at it.

I apologize both for saying it and for the sin of trying to be funny and failing during what the other person thought was a heated exchange.

The whole metatalking about the worth of a boingboing link should have been taken to Metatalk (by me) off the get-go, as well, rather than stinking up the thread itself. For so loutishly breaking that prime directive, I am also sorry. I ought to know better.

Honestly, I really am sorry -- I understand that as someone who has been here a long time (and is apparently the subject of a 'cult of personality' of which I was previously unaware) I am most certainly not 'fucking allowed' to spaz out so publically, and am in fact beholden to display more equanimity and poise, when possible. My transgression has given some here an opportunity to get out some of their animus for me though, so it's all good, in the end, I hope.

I am a spazzy, ranty prick, I know, and as EB generously mentioned upthread, I do my best to rein that side of myself in, with varying degrees of success. When I fail, and go loopy for a bit, and when it offends or insults someone, I apologize. In good faith, and fully.

I apologize to the community, and to Ynoxas in particular, who bore the brunt of my mock-mad-face ranting.

shut the fuck up, stavros.

Yessir. Shutting the fuck up now, sir.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:57 PM on May 30, 2004

I can't take it? I've taken worse, from better men than you. I wasn't whining, by any stretch of the imagination -- if anything I was pointing and chuckling over what a petty little bitch you apparently can be.

When I fail, and go loopy for a bit, and when it offends or insults someone, I apologize. In good faith, and fully.

Class act.
posted by y2karl at 5:41 PM on May 30, 2004

I'm sorr--I just don't see how contrition and an inability to stop sliming people, raising the stakes each time, fit in the same comment with any grace. You are incredibly thin skinned.
posted by y2karl at 5:45 PM on May 30, 2004

You are incredibly thin skinned.

*unshutting up*

Well, sure, karl, and you are too, I've noticed. We have that in common, at least.

If someone (someone you'd never met, no less) had said about you :

"He's got the most cast-iron sense of self-righteousness I've ever seen; he knows he knows what's right and good, so he can be as much of a jerk as he feels like being, and if you call him on it he either insults you or, if he's in a good mood, makes some smug remark that lets you know he's letting you live out of his infinite sense of noblesse oblige."

while sugarcoating the knifetwist with things like 'but he's generally a force for good,' I suspect you'd be upset about it as well.

As far as languagehat goes, perhaps he is the best man who's ever taken me to task.

Perhaps I'm wrong. I am, frequently, as I've said many times before.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:02 PM on May 30, 2004

Honestly, I really am sorry -- I understand that as someone who has been here a long time (and is apparently the subject of a 'cult of personality' of which I was previously unaware) I am most certainly not 'fucking allowed' to spaz out so publically, and am in fact beholden to display more equanimity and poise, when possible.

This part was pretty good.

Stav, if you could just write that over on a blackboard a few hundred times, that'd be good enough for me.

Maybe even just "... I am most certainly not 'fucking allowed'..."
posted by namespan at 6:04 PM on May 30, 2004

My transgression has given some here an opportunity to get out some of their animus for me though, so it's all good, in the end, I hope.

I don't know if it's "animus" per se, stav. You're a very opinionated, very eloquent guy, and when you combine those two traits you're inevitably going to piss some people off occassionally. It's just human nature. As often as I've sat cackling my ass off to things you've written or sat stunned at their profundity, I've occassionaly wanted to throttle you as well. That's not an indictment, merely a statement that you're an interesting enough writer to invoke strong emotions in people. So you're occasionally cut a certain amount of slack because of that. But sometimes we can forget what this place is about and go on a personal tear, which is what you did in the thread in question. A certain amount of chiding was due, but I think we've all had enough.

Let's get back to burning Bush in effigy, dammit.
posted by jonmc at 6:05 PM on May 30, 2004

As far as languagehat goes, perhaps he is the best man who's ever taken me to task.

I've met languagehat a few times, you two would get along famously.
posted by jonmc at 6:07 PM on May 30, 2004

Some of us understand that many social interactions are ritualistic and symbolic, some of us take them literally, and some of us do both. Sometimes simultaneously and with great confusion.

The thing is, I think, Stav thinks that he had a point and that some of the piling on was excessive. He also thinks that his behavior was inappropriate and excessive. He feels genuinely sorry about some things and toward some people, and he's still hurt and angry regarding some others. So his response is a jumble. This is just my impression—forgive me Stav if I'm wrong.

Some of us are very socially pragmatic and will disregard what we are thinking and feeling about a conflict in order to resolve it according to custom and expectation. In many cultures, that includes a fair amount of apology, even debasement. I suspect that Stav's life in SK makes this very familiar to him. On the other hand, Stav's also a North American who values frankness, is up front about feelings, and is willing to be a rude SOB.

So, basically, his response to conflict doesn't make much sense to many, if any, of us.

I don't have the cultural confusion, but I do have similar competing tendencies and sensibilities and in these sorts of situations my pragmatism, empathy, self-criticism, anger, and defensiveness are all pretty equally engaged and the mix tends to make a muddle of things.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 6:09 PM on May 30, 2004

time for pancakes?
(probably not; i'm not very good at this kind of thing... quonsar, could you do a farting noise or something?)
posted by andrew cooke at 6:10 PM on May 30, 2004

Translation of Ethereal Bligh's last comment:
"stavrosthewonderchicken is a mixed bag of emotions, thoughts, and reactions, LIKE ALL OF US, and attempted to explain various characteristics of himself in one post."

The above, Ethereal Bligh, is your 5 paragraphs condensed. If I missed a finer point, add one 2 line paragraph at the end. Seriously, brevity is your friend.
posted by BlueTrain at 6:26 PM on May 30, 2004

Speaking of Quonsar, he's been silent/absent lately and I've been hoping that he's okay, given that he said he was going to put his cat down soon. Q, hope you're okay. I'm still force-feeding Simone, not much improvement.

But I could do without the farting noises, thanks. You know, I don't think I've made a single in-joke since I've been here. I've been tempted.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 6:26 PM on May 30, 2004

I, for one, want you to grow up. And if you fuck up, take your medicine and don't whine.

You know, languagehat, once upon a time you were cute as the measured amateur linguist, but you've really become a shrill dickhead in recent months. If you're such a big stavros fan, then suck it up, give the man a break and let him take his public flogging with some dignity. He's already bent his knees more than the likes of you deserve, but you're still foaming at the mouth. He must be beaten, and he must *like* it, too! If you're feeling left out by all this and anxious to accumulate points toward your own general MeTa-spank, let me know and I'll start counting.
posted by scarabic at 6:28 PM on May 30, 2004

Ah, the cacophony of vituperation in the early evening. It sounds like...MetaTalk.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 6:38 PM on May 30, 2004

Bravo!
posted by BlueTrain at 6:41 PM on May 30, 2004

Fuck you, scarabic. I've taken my spankings and apologized like a man, and I'm generally on good terms with people I've had run-ins with. If you're such a big stavros fan, let him do his own dirty work. "The likes of you" indeed. What are you, his PR man? He seems to be doing OK on his own. If he needs you around to hold his coat, he's in much worse shape than I thought.

There are people around here foaming at the mouth, but I don't think I'm one of them. I could, of course, be wrong.

jonmc: I thought so too, but it doesn't look like we'll ever find out.
posted by languagehat at 6:44 PM on May 30, 2004

jonmc: I thought so too, but it doesn't look like we'll ever find out.

to quote what someone at the meetup yesterday said to me: "I hate you online, but I love you in person!"

You never can tell.

I think we need a big game of Strip Bingo to make everything right again.
posted by jonmc at 6:46 PM on May 30, 2004

Let's get back to burning Bush in effigy, dammit

Get away from my cardboard Bush, you barbarian-he was expensive!
posted by konolia at 6:46 PM on May 30, 2004

If it makes you feel any better, konolia, my lesbian ex-girlfreind owns a life size carboard cut out of Dolly Parton.

Maybe you could form a support group. :)
posted by jonmc at 6:54 PM on May 30, 2004

I apologize to the community, and to Ynoxas in particular, who bore the brunt of my mock-mad-face ranting.

I believe you are sincere, and your apology is accepted in that same spirit.

P.S. The "fucking amateurs" is indeed what I took offense at.
posted by Ynoxas at 6:55 PM on May 30, 2004

Dammit, now I want an apology too.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 7:12 PM on May 30, 2004

Fuck you, scarabic.

Where I stopped reading. Seeya round the universe, big guy.
posted by scarabic at 7:12 PM on May 30, 2004

As far as cardboard cut-outs go, I can't think of a better way to depict Bush, or a worse way to depict Dolly. Some things perkily insist on being represented in three dimensions.

Just sayin'.
posted by trondant at 7:14 PM on May 30, 2004

Let me say that if I ever get to New York for a meetup, I'll be buying LH (and others too) a beer so fast his head spins, if he allows me to do so.

We're allowed to bicker and poke each other with pointed sticks -- hell, it's to be expected in this place -- but we shouldn't forget that there are people behind the avatars.

This is a lesson that I ought to have tattooed on my mouse hand, just as much as anyone else should.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:15 PM on May 30, 2004

I got a chuckle out of how boingboing is said to post the best of the web and yet someone gets shit for posting a link that has appeared there.

Less funny is how quick people are to go after each other's throats. It reminds me why my participation here is sporadic.
posted by john at 7:15 PM on May 30, 2004

I have an unruly boner.
posted by ashbury at 7:21 PM on May 30, 2004

Nobody ever says "fuck you" to me. I feel left out.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 7:22 PM on May 30, 2004

we shouldn't forget that there are people behind the avatars.

Well said. Including, probably most importantly, our own avatars. In other words: do yourself the service of remembering not to be more of a dick than you really are.
posted by scarabic at 7:22 PM on May 30, 2004

Hey crash, fuck you.

I'm a giver.
posted by jonmc at 7:23 PM on May 30, 2004

ashbury made me laugh out loud. For real. I've freaked out my colleagues in the office again.

do yourself the service of remembering not to be more of a dick than you really are.

This is slightly confusing, but probably good advice, all 'round.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:24 PM on May 30, 2004

Nobody ever fucks me. I feel left out.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 7:24 PM on May 30, 2004

Sorry, Miguel.
posted by namespan at 7:25 PM on May 30, 2004

"Hey crash, fuck you."

jonmc, coming from a Noo Yawker that means more than you could ever imagine.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 7:29 PM on May 30, 2004

do yourself the service of remembering not to be more of a dick than you really are.
Easy for you to say - some of us couldn't be more of a dick here than we are in real life.

I'm sorry for Miguel, too. Oh, and mr_crash_davis - fuck you and the horse you rode in on. Feel better now?

*declines making Ethereal Bligh not feel left out*
posted by dg at 7:30 PM on May 30, 2004

oh man.... this is gonna go on forever....
posted by Keyser Soze at 7:38 PM on May 30, 2004

What I mean is that we frequently forget that there are human beings on the other end of this medium, true, but we also tend to behave unaccontably and too anonymously ourselves, in ways we never would in person. Remembering to maintain one's own humanity will probably solve more problems, further upstream, than remembering to treat others as nicely as possible online. Having had this revelation, I find myself disinclined to debate with anyone who begins a response with a "fuck you." Do you really expect that kind of opener to lead to dialogue? No, obviously not. So wtf are you doing here? You're sitting at home angry. Fine. This is my problem to solve?

Said another way: I try to listen to myself, for fuck's sake, lest I be written off and ignored as nothing but a potty-mouthed prick. We're always half-an-inch from that here, several words from the brink of closing the ears we're talking into. If you really want your retorts to stick, you deliver them with commensurate respect, so as to secure the ear of the person you're talking to. The real victory is not to convince them, but to get them to listen. once you get them to listen, you get them to think, and in thinking, they do more for themselves than you ever could.

For the record, stavros, I enjoy your participation more than most others, and find myself under your wing, ad hoc, more often than you're probably aware. If you take too many liberties in expressing yourself at times, you lend courage to chicken-hearted souls like myself who never have the guts to go first. Now, granted, we want to keep this forum open to everybody, even though the populace is 80% left-wing-crazies (that's part of being a left-wing crazy), and you occasionally step on toes. But in the grand scheme, you *are* a force for good, you're credible over time, and I think you're pretty open to blowback wherever you deserve it and/or ask for it. In your own words: "what more do you want?"

And FWIW, I'm not giving you any points for prose, here. I don't read your site, and it's not your writing that stands out for me, but the content thereof. I just like your attitude, applaud your general magnanimity, and agree with your very mature bring-it-all lefty embrace of life, including it's ridiculous and ugly sides. There's a literary comparison here that's begging to be made, but I won't make it...

As said above: rock on with your bad self.
posted by scarabic at 7:44 PM on May 30, 2004

Not forever. Just until we get to the spanking part.
posted by orange swan at 7:51 PM on May 30, 2004

What, you are not going to hang around for the oral sex?
posted by dg at 7:55 PM on May 30, 2004

Did someone say spanking?

*applies coat of varnish to paddle*
posted by jonmc at 8:11 PM on May 30, 2004

oh man.... this is gonna go on forever....

Agreed, this is a weird thread, I can't tell if the local gang is still arguing or getting ready to have sex. It's like some sort of textual S&M foreplay. Or ... a Roast ... this reminds me of one of those old-style celebrity roasts! The Stavros W.C. celebrity roast. I'll bet those probably evolved under similar circumstances.
posted by milovoo at 9:00 PM on May 30, 2004

I can't tell if the local gang is still arguing or getting ready to have sex.

With this many alcoholics in the room, get ready for your terms to blur.
posted by scarabic at 9:20 PM on May 30, 2004

My god, there's gonna be a lotta fucking in here tonight. I dunno whether to join in, stand on the sidelines, or get the hell outta here entirely. I've never done groupsex and I've never swung... but it looks like that's what's going down. I could be a virtual swinger, milting his five fresh fish.

[cutscene from Meaning of Life, 'Find the Fish']
posted by five fresh fish at 9:23 PM on May 30, 2004

And everybody made up and got to the spanking and oral sex, apart from scarabic who's doing Ethereal Blight impressions, and all is well. This is how I like MeTa posts to end.
posted by fvw at 9:26 PM on May 30, 2004

Thank you, scarabic. Your kindness is appreciated and unexpected, and helps to soothe the sting of recent (and deserved, I know) Mefite disapprobation.

Is it too soon for the make-up sex?
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:41 PM on May 30, 2004

Goodnight Mrs. Calabash, wherever you are.
posted by timeistight at 10:53 PM on May 30, 2004

I'm never doing this again. I promise.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 11:30 PM on May 30, 2004

That rocks, EB.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 11:43 PM on May 30, 2004

Haha, brilliant. Could you do one of those for all MeTa threads? It's so much easier than reading 100+ comments, and it gets the important bits across wonderfully. (also, it's shiny and pretty)
posted by fvw at 12:13 AM on May 31, 2004

EB's image was great, but I will not be happy until someone gets spanked.
posted by orange swan at 6:06 AM on May 31, 2004

*turns garden hose on rest of thread participants*

Break it up and go home, people.
posted by konolia at 6:12 AM on May 31, 2004

You're getting water all over your stereo and...jonmc...and a monkey! Whoops, that's dubya. You're getting water all over your stereo, jonmc, and dubya!

You got any cereal?
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 6:24 AM on May 31, 2004

*turns garden hose on rest of thread participants*

posted by konolia at 6:12 AM PST on May 31

posted by matteo at 6:37 AM on May 31, 2004

Metafilter: I hate you online, but I love you in person!
posted by rushmc at 6:51 AM on May 31, 2004

Let me say that if I ever get to New York for a meetup, I'll be buying LH (and others too) a beer so fast his head spins, if he allows me to do so.

Thanks, stav, you're on, and I've got the next round. Sorry I got so nasty -- my mother-in-law is visiting, which may have some effect on my mood.

EB, you want beer in that cereal?

*waits for the sex to start*
posted by languagehat at 7:15 AM on May 31, 2004

*run end credits*
*voiceover*
"This episode of M.E.T.A. has been brought to you by K-Y Jelly, Valium, Sapporo, and the Government of the United States. Tune in next week when more fit hits the shan and the feces-flinging is renewed in earnest (or would that be Ernest?)."
posted by ashbury at 8:26 AM on May 31, 2004

My thoughts about this thread, as summed up by a song by Wax Mannequin (I swear these apt lyrics are 100% legit, however serendipitious it may seem for them to exist):

You've got to tell the preacher to forgive me--FUCK
Don't want to boing/don't want to boing/don't want to boing
boingboing boingboing boingboing boingboing boingboing
posted by The God Complex at 9:36 AM on May 31, 2004

Fucking A, another fight ends up as a circle jerk. I'm thinking people act out from time to time just to give everyone a chance to forgive them. God damned internet hug-sluts.
posted by Hildago at 9:56 AM on May 31, 2004

If I had a million dollars, you know what I'd do? Two MeTa threads at the same time, man.
posted by trondant at 10:06 AM on May 31, 2004

Did I miss something?
posted by i_cola at 12:58 PM on May 31, 2004

[lights cigarette]

Ahhhh.
posted by five fresh fish at 1:25 PM on May 31, 2004

This reads like a strange, dysfunction relationship and I feel like an enabler for contributing, which wouldn't be so bad if I got a beer out of it.
posted by john at 1:38 PM on May 31, 2004

You colonials.

You're so fucking rude.
posted by dash_slot- at 3:10 PM on May 31, 2004

Can anyone explain what the black square Ethereal Blight (great malapropism, fvw - Eternal Blight would be even better!) means? Was there an image there?
posted by dash_slot- at 3:41 PM on May 31, 2004

I had to load it in IE to see the graphic (old Firebird in use normally).
posted by NortonDC at 3:58 PM on May 31, 2004

I don't have Explorer, NortonDC. what's in the black square?
posted by matteo at 4:30 PM on May 31, 2004

Oh right so. Talking dicks, for a change.
posted by dash_slot- at 4:32 PM on May 31, 2004

An amusing animated .gif movielet with fish in, matteo. Try saving it locally and opening with a viewer, mebbe.

Sorry I got so nasty

And I, back at ya.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:38 PM on May 31, 2004

Late to the party, but I would like to offer a strong second to what vacapinta said about zootoon, potential posting phobia, and lack of reinforcement for good posts.

This is a big thumbs up for Zootoon, who does indeed have a marvelous site - I would like to see the welcome mat out for international members like Zootoon...here's to more participation, not less.
posted by madamjujujive at 5:26 PM on May 31, 2004

Speaking of Quonsar, he's been silent/absent lately

*the crowd roars*
posted by quonsar at 8:06 PM on May 31, 2004

oh, and bOiNg bOiNg can bOiNk oFf.
posted by quonsar at 8:10 PM on May 31, 2004

Let's get back to burning Bush in effigy, dammit

Get away from my cardboard Bush, you barbarian-he was expensive!
posted by konolia

isn't the whole point of a burning Bush that it never is consumed?

*ducks*
posted by Vidiot at 8:43 PM on May 31, 2004

Thanks, stav, you're on, and I've got the next round. Sorry I got so nasty -- my mother-in-law is visiting, which may have some effect on my mood.


and so, the denouement.

why can't real life be like this?
posted by _sirmissalot_ at 8:52 PM on May 31, 2004

y'all a bunch of pussies, by the way.
posted by _sirmissalot_ at 9:03 PM on May 31, 2004

warm. fuzzy. pussies.
posted by quonsar at 9:49 PM on May 31, 2004

word.
posted by _sirmissalot_ at 9:53 PM on May 31, 2004

Oh dear, I feel in the spirit of this thread I owe Ethereal Bligh an apology. For some reason I've always read his name as Ethereal Blight, probably because I just assumed that since the first part was an actual word the second part would be too. The only thing that comes to mind for "Bligh" is William Bligh, which is probably a lot worse than "Blight".

Anyway, no insult intended (which is not to say I won't use it again, because it is mildly entertaining).
posted by fvw at 4:19 AM on June 1, 2004

No prob. Some people quite predictably think calling me "Blight" is funny, but as name-related insults go, it's both fairly obvious and mild. It is "Bligh", however, and I was aware that "William Bligh" would come to mind when I picked the name.¹ But as I say on my user page, the real reason I choose "Bligh" was that as a completion of "Ethereal –", it was euphonious (to me). A little too cyberpunky, perhaps, but still I just darn like its sound.

About the image: it's an animated GIF, which I thought would be the most platform-neutral. I thought all browsers display animated GIFs without a problem. Um, I did for some stupid reason set it to only play twice and then stop (leaving the black fade-out/in frame). Just reload the page to start the animation again. Or, I could edit the damn image. Ah, that's too much trouble right now.

1 Confession: no, I wasn't. Actually, when "Bligh" occured to me, my immediate mistake was stupidly thinking it was the Moby Dick character. I realized my mistake later. But I didn't choose the name for the character/historical reference.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 4:34 AM on June 1, 2004

my immediate mistake was stupidly thinking it was the Moby Dick character

I much prefer the current monicker to 'Ethereal Dick', I must say. Although PhilipKEtherealDick has possibilities....
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:35 AM on June 1, 2004

does ethereal dick melt in one's celestial mouth?
posted by quonsar at 8:13 AM on June 1, 2004

I was going to leave a nasty remark about Ethereal Bligh, but then I deleted it before I posted it, realizing how little I gain by ridiculing a stranger via the internet (who isn't Miguel) and how foolish it ends up making me look.
posted by crunchland at 8:24 AM on June 1, 2004

Dammit, I stay off the interweb for a whole weekend and I miss the party.
posted by me3dia at 9:19 AM on June 1, 2004

I may as well add that not only was I crabby because of my m-in-law's presence all weekend, she's the reason I missed the NYC MeFi meetup Saturday -- I had to go pick her up instead. And today I'm back at work, have to do my officemate's work as well because he took the day off, and am suffering from a foul headache. So remember, kids: crime doesn't pay!

Yes, I know that conclusion doesn't make any sense. Don't bother me with logic, dammit -- bring me an aspirin.
posted by languagehat at 9:57 AM on June 1, 2004

*hands L-Hat an aspirin*
posted by matteo at 10:50 AM on June 1, 2004

*busts matteo for violating the zero-tolerance policy; suspends him for forty-eight days*
posted by mr_crash_davis at 11:12 AM on June 1, 2004

languagehat: So remember, kids: crime doesn't pay!

You're just not doing it right.
posted by snarfodox at 3:09 PM on June 1, 2004

Holy MeFi, Batman, what a thread!
I think just about all the MeFi AllStars got at least one good snark in (and most, at least two bad snarks).

Personally, let me declare that if any member of this site is "fucking allowed" to exceed their daily quota of obnoxiosity on account of their seniority (other than #1), I would nominate myself. While stav, karl, hat and "EBligh as the Beaver", (among others), may lay claim to the ultimate wisdom of Life, the Universe and Everything (sorry DNA, the answer is NOT 42), I actually have the inside track on all that is right and wrong, but choose not to rub the rest of your noses in it (except on rare occasions when my meds need adjusting), because being obnoxiously judgmental, ironically, is on the 'wrong' list.

No, I have not been drinking, but I have spent the last three days practicing all of the personal vices I actually prefer to drinking, with the sad exception of reading and commenting on MeFi.

Actually, konolia, if half of MeFi is coming to your living room to see and/or abuse your GWB cardboard cutout, I'll bring the snacks... PRETZELS! Bwahahahahaha...

I thought I had a cardboard cutout of John Kerry in my living room, but after several hours I realized it was really him, so I let him go. Rimshot!

And just for the record, I have FOUR dead dog stories that'll break your heart more than anybody else's dead cat stories (which is why I am no longer allowed to have pets).

And remember kids, crime doesn't pay, and neither does writing for websites.

Thank you, thank you. I'll be here all week. Try the chicken-fried steak with country gravy (It's on my list of vices I enjoy more than drinking).
posted by wendell at 5:42 PM on June 1, 2004

Wendell!

I thought I had a cardboard cutout of John Kerry in my living room, but after several hours I realized it was really him, so I let him go. Rimshot!
.
It is quite a painful thing to snort a pretzel out one's nose.
posted by konolia at 7:56 PM on June 1, 2004

Is it too late to say that I hate Boing Boing?
posted by Fat Buddha at 6:26 PM on June 2, 2004

Is it too late to say that I never liked Gerald McBoing-Boing?

Meanwhile, over at the MonkeyHaus, we're having a spirited discussion of stavros' sex life.
posted by wendell at 7:12 PM on June 2, 2004

Hey! Quit that!
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 12:55 AM on June 4, 2004

[Sniggers behind uplifted orange-feathered wing.]
posted by orange swan at 8:09 AM on June 4, 2004