Explain yourself (deletion) November 12, 2004 9:50 AM Subscribe
OK, I might sound like a whiner, but I gotta ask. Why did my post to this letter get deleted while the Neal Pollack stuff stays up? Too incendiary?
Pretty simple, really: Fuck Bob Jones.
Well, I agree. But I thought there was something important in pointing out that the fundie side of this debate are seeing this as a total victory. I feel like there's been a lot of 'oh there are a lot of reasons W got reelected' talk, and that might be true, but reading this reminds us that the most frightening elements of the right don't think so.
posted by lumpenprole at 9:58 AM on November 12, 2004
Well, I agree. But I thought there was something important in pointing out that the fundie side of this debate are seeing this as a total victory. I feel like there's been a lot of 'oh there are a lot of reasons W got reelected' talk, and that might be true, but reading this reminds us that the most frightening elements of the right don't think so.
posted by lumpenprole at 9:58 AM on November 12, 2004
Bob's read like a screed while Pollack's stuff is meant as comedy. I deleted another couple threads that were just politics as usual. What's there to discuss about Bob Jones?
posted by mathowie (staff) at 10:04 AM on November 12, 2004
posted by mathowie (staff) at 10:04 AM on November 12, 2004
well, ok, i'm not trying to be a jerk or anything. I just wanted to see if the more thoughtful republican members of mefi had any reservations about this kind of thing. But, whatever.
posted by lumpenprole at 10:07 AM on November 12, 2004
posted by lumpenprole at 10:07 AM on November 12, 2004
I've got a better idea. Send Neal Pollack to Fuck Bob Jones.
posted by jonmc at 10:31 AM on November 12, 2004
posted by jonmc at 10:31 AM on November 12, 2004
What's there to discuss about Bob Jones?
But ... discussion ...
*brane explodes*
posted by kenko at 10:54 AM on November 12, 2004
But ... discussion ...
*brane explodes*
posted by kenko at 10:54 AM on November 12, 2004
The new wave of American religious fanatacism is getting scary. Europeans who complain about fear of new (or old) Muslim states should try living next-door to Fred the Fundamentalist sometime.
posted by Shane at 10:58 AM on November 12, 2004
posted by Shane at 10:58 AM on November 12, 2004
I deleted another couple threads that were just politics as usual.
I strongly support that.
posted by timeistight at 10:58 AM on November 12, 2004
I strongly support that.
posted by timeistight at 10:58 AM on November 12, 2004
What timeistight said.
"I thought there was something important in pointing out that the fundie side of this debate........"
Fuck this debate. Fuck it.
posted by y6y6y6 at 11:02 AM on November 12, 2004
"I thought there was something important in pointing out that the fundie side of this debate........"
Fuck this debate. Fuck it.
posted by y6y6y6 at 11:02 AM on November 12, 2004
Fuck this debate. Fuck it.
Well, it;s going on. Sticking your head in the sand isn't going to change the fact that we're in the middle of a pretty significant time in history here. One that's probably going to decide how future generations remember the USA.
posted by lumpenprole at 11:08 AM on November 12, 2004
Well, it;s going on. Sticking your head in the sand isn't going to change the fact that we're in the middle of a pretty significant time in history here. One that's probably going to decide how future generations remember the USA.
posted by lumpenprole at 11:08 AM on November 12, 2004
To give some sense of why Republican members of MeFi might not care:
The fundie gloating, claims that God clearly put Bush back in office, and demands for payback are an interesting if ugly phenomenon, but Bush will turn his back on them just as he turned his back on his own congregation, if that's what he feels he needs to do. And he's already said publicly that he doesn't feel a need to explain himself.
The beauty of this is that the kind of person who applauds Bob Jones's letter will take this in stride, because they so admire his "certitude" - the letter actually articulates that. If fundamentalist Christians come back and ream Bush - in an effective way (like changing the composition of Congress) - then it might be news. But as long as they continue to praise him to the skies, it's not.
Also, this attitude is only a part of the Bush vote. As frightening as it is to contemplate an Administration that proposes a US Constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage, you realize that won't actually happen, right? (OK, but not this term, anyway.) These people get bones and some encouragement for local changes, like state constitutional amendments; the meat is going to more direct interests of the Administration.
The people who voted for Bush encompass many factions that despise each other. Liberals privilege consensus, and so I think they sometimes assume that an effective united front must represent a consensus, at least on some things. Surprise. A lot of those people were more focused on winning than on who else is on the team, and can overlook rather stunning differences of opinion (partly because the major factions all have reasons to believe - or indeed faith - that their own interests will be seen to). Ironic, isn't it?
I guess I have to own up to finding this an interesting subject, but to get back to the grey ....
Look at the comments in this thread, just this morning, and tell me how likely you think it is that a useful discussion will arise from a pointer to that letter and a claim of "war"?
On preview: The idea that this election somehow creates a new vision of the corrosive effect of prescriptive religious values in American life - and in American interactions with its neighbors - is pretty ahistorical. Especially as we approach Thanksgiving!
posted by caitlinb at 11:12 AM on November 12, 2004
The fundie gloating, claims that God clearly put Bush back in office, and demands for payback are an interesting if ugly phenomenon, but Bush will turn his back on them just as he turned his back on his own congregation, if that's what he feels he needs to do. And he's already said publicly that he doesn't feel a need to explain himself.
The beauty of this is that the kind of person who applauds Bob Jones's letter will take this in stride, because they so admire his "certitude" - the letter actually articulates that. If fundamentalist Christians come back and ream Bush - in an effective way (like changing the composition of Congress) - then it might be news. But as long as they continue to praise him to the skies, it's not.
Also, this attitude is only a part of the Bush vote. As frightening as it is to contemplate an Administration that proposes a US Constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage, you realize that won't actually happen, right? (OK, but not this term, anyway.) These people get bones and some encouragement for local changes, like state constitutional amendments; the meat is going to more direct interests of the Administration.
The people who voted for Bush encompass many factions that despise each other. Liberals privilege consensus, and so I think they sometimes assume that an effective united front must represent a consensus, at least on some things. Surprise. A lot of those people were more focused on winning than on who else is on the team, and can overlook rather stunning differences of opinion (partly because the major factions all have reasons to believe - or indeed faith - that their own interests will be seen to). Ironic, isn't it?
I guess I have to own up to finding this an interesting subject, but to get back to the grey ....
Look at the comments in this thread, just this morning, and tell me how likely you think it is that a useful discussion will arise from a pointer to that letter and a claim of "war"?
On preview: The idea that this election somehow creates a new vision of the corrosive effect of prescriptive religious values in American life - and in American interactions with its neighbors - is pretty ahistorical. Especially as we approach Thanksgiving!
posted by caitlinb at 11:12 AM on November 12, 2004
"we're in the middle of a pretty significant time in history here."
Fine. So go find a site where the goal is to debate such issues. You have MetaFilter confused with a political discussion board. Please stop being confused about that. Please?
Look......... For the last few months we've beaten to death every angle of the political debate in this country. This was justified by the argument that the election was too ubiquitous and we might as well have it out in the blue.
Well the election is over, and so should the political debate on MeFi's homepage.
I don't have my head in the sand - I debate this issue every single day on my blog. Since my blog is an appropriate place to have this debate. Get it? The debate DOES NOT need to extend to every single corner that might conceivably host it. I'll debate the issue elsewhere. Can you please give it a break here? Please? Pretty please with sugar on top?
posted by y6y6y6 at 11:29 AM on November 12, 2004
Fine. So go find a site where the goal is to debate such issues. You have MetaFilter confused with a political discussion board. Please stop being confused about that. Please?
Look......... For the last few months we've beaten to death every angle of the political debate in this country. This was justified by the argument that the election was too ubiquitous and we might as well have it out in the blue.
Well the election is over, and so should the political debate on MeFi's homepage.
I don't have my head in the sand - I debate this issue every single day on my blog. Since my blog is an appropriate place to have this debate. Get it? The debate DOES NOT need to extend to every single corner that might conceivably host it. I'll debate the issue elsewhere. Can you please give it a break here? Please? Pretty please with sugar on top?
posted by y6y6y6 at 11:29 AM on November 12, 2004
Well the election is over, and so should the political debate on MeFi's homepage.
I respect your opinions (though a little less snark would be nice, i'm trying to be respectful, here), but I suspect that you're going to be dissapointed. People are more freaked out/charged up by politics now than they have been in recent memory.
I think there's going to be a signicant increase, or a sustain in the increase in the amount of political discussions on most public forums.
posted by lumpenprole at 11:35 AM on November 12, 2004
I respect your opinions (though a little less snark would be nice, i'm trying to be respectful, here), but I suspect that you're going to be dissapointed. People are more freaked out/charged up by politics now than they have been in recent memory.
I think there's going to be a signicant increase, or a sustain in the increase in the amount of political discussions on most public forums.
posted by lumpenprole at 11:35 AM on November 12, 2004
I think there's going to be a signicant increase, or a sustain in the increase in the amount of political discussions on most public forums.
Not this forum. See, I've got this delete button that I've got all oiled up and have been using all week.
I've got outrage burnout from the election. We threw every piece of shit at the wall for months, to see if any of it stuck, and little of it did. And we left a terrible, unreadable site in its wake. All the little ax-grinding here at MetaFilter got to be too much, and I don't want to see it again.
So I'm deleting all the little tiny outrage political threads that felt at home before the election, but now seem pointless. So Bob Jones thinks God put Bush in office and Bush can do anything. So the hell what? When Bush actually does something, maybe it's worth a thread here. Or probably not. I'd rather there be a hundred threads with links to origami galleries and new web comics and new applications debuted for every little political outrage post.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 11:53 AM on November 12, 2004
Not this forum. See, I've got this delete button that I've got all oiled up and have been using all week.
I've got outrage burnout from the election. We threw every piece of shit at the wall for months, to see if any of it stuck, and little of it did. And we left a terrible, unreadable site in its wake. All the little ax-grinding here at MetaFilter got to be too much, and I don't want to see it again.
So I'm deleting all the little tiny outrage political threads that felt at home before the election, but now seem pointless. So Bob Jones thinks God put Bush in office and Bush can do anything. So the hell what? When Bush actually does something, maybe it's worth a thread here. Or probably not. I'd rather there be a hundred threads with links to origami galleries and new web comics and new applications debuted for every little political outrage post.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 11:53 AM on November 12, 2004
I think there's going to be a signicant increase, or a sustain in the increase in the amount of political discussions on most public forums.
You know, the mere fact that people want to talk about it doesn't mean they have to talk about it here.
In fact, if people are really "charged up," I would love to see them get involved in a community where they can actually make a direct impact on the issues involved - whatever specific issues attract their attention.
posted by caitlinb at 11:54 AM on November 12, 2004
You know, the mere fact that people want to talk about it doesn't mean they have to talk about it here.
In fact, if people are really "charged up," I would love to see them get involved in a community where they can actually make a direct impact on the issues involved - whatever specific issues attract their attention.
posted by caitlinb at 11:54 AM on November 12, 2004
I'd rather there be a hundred threads with links to origami galleries and new web comics and new applications debuted for every little political outrage post.
Duly noted. I do notice that there's a lot more discussion on the socio/political threads though. However, it's your baby, I'll stay away from political stuff here from now on.
posted by lumpenprole at 11:56 AM on November 12, 2004
Duly noted. I do notice that there's a lot more discussion on the socio/political threads though. However, it's your baby, I'll stay away from political stuff here from now on.
posted by lumpenprole at 11:56 AM on November 12, 2004
I'll stay away from political stuff here from now on
As always, I'm not looking to ban anything outright, but to hopefully reserve political stuff for major milestones, or stuff that actually happens. I've been purging all the Op/Eds from the site since they don't amount to much in the real world.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 12:00 PM on November 12, 2004
As always, I'm not looking to ban anything outright, but to hopefully reserve political stuff for major milestones, or stuff that actually happens. I've been purging all the Op/Eds from the site since they don't amount to much in the real world.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 12:00 PM on November 12, 2004
Do you think posting something about that in the side-blog might prevent some of these "why was my post deleted" threads?
posted by timeistight at 12:06 PM on November 12, 2004
posted by timeistight at 12:06 PM on November 12, 2004
I'd rather there be a hundred threads with links to origami galleries and new web comics ...
Excellent, 'cuz webcomics are cool.
*starts typing a post for later*
posted by Shane at 12:18 PM on November 12, 2004
Excellent, 'cuz webcomics are cool.
*starts typing a post for later*
posted by Shane at 12:18 PM on November 12, 2004
We threw every piece of shit at the wall for months, to see if any of it stuck, and little of it did.
maybe it did, but not with the message you hoped for. maybe you need to filter the crap out even more during elections. maybe a little tact and reasonableness would be more helpful, next time, than everyone running round foaming at the mouth?
if you stick with the good posts, you'll get - given the people who post here - good posts against whoever stands for the republicans next time. there's no need to lower standards just because you want to win. leave that kind of thing to the pros - i have no idea why people think negative propoganda is so easy to get right...
sorry, i know i've made similar posts many times here over the last few weeks. this is the final one (on this subject).
posted by andrew cooke at 12:19 PM on November 12, 2004
maybe it did, but not with the message you hoped for. maybe you need to filter the crap out even more during elections. maybe a little tact and reasonableness would be more helpful, next time, than everyone running round foaming at the mouth?
if you stick with the good posts, you'll get - given the people who post here - good posts against whoever stands for the republicans next time. there's no need to lower standards just because you want to win. leave that kind of thing to the pros - i have no idea why people think negative propoganda is so easy to get right...
sorry, i know i've made similar posts many times here over the last few weeks. this is the final one (on this subject).
posted by andrew cooke at 12:19 PM on November 12, 2004
Matt,
I love you, dude. I mean it, I really love you. Keep hitting that Delete button.
posted by mojohand at 12:22 PM on November 12, 2004
I love you, dude. I mean it, I really love you. Keep hitting that Delete button.
posted by mojohand at 12:22 PM on November 12, 2004
I'd rather there be a hundred threads with links to origami galleries and new web comics and new applications debuted for every little political outrage post.
::applauds::
People who are politically outraged (including me) need to stop giving in to the easy fix of pontificating on the internets, and instead get off their asses (including mine) and actually do something about getting information out and changing minds.
Hooray for Matt for not enabling people's pontification addictions (including mine).
posted by Sidhedevil at 12:23 PM on November 12, 2004
::applauds::
People who are politically outraged (including me) need to stop giving in to the easy fix of pontificating on the internets, and instead get off their asses (including mine) and actually do something about getting information out and changing minds.
Hooray for Matt for not enabling people's pontification addictions (including mine).
posted by Sidhedevil at 12:23 PM on November 12, 2004
I just wanted to see if the more thoughtful republican members of mefi had any reservations about this kind of thing.
I'm just struggling not to make a comment asking when having an inquisition for republicans became "best of the web". Damn. But hey, no-one expects the Spanish Inquisition!
Sticking your head in the sand isn't going to change the fact that we're in the middle of a pretty significant time in history here.
Doesn't mean it has to take up every hour of the day, every media outlet, every website. Some people might come here to, you know, find something interesting to escape from reality for a while.
Huzzah for Matt. Deletions do us all good. Help stop me making a jerk of myself, anyway.
posted by Jimbob at 12:46 PM on November 12, 2004
I'm just struggling not to make a comment asking when having an inquisition for republicans became "best of the web". Damn. But hey, no-one expects the Spanish Inquisition!
Sticking your head in the sand isn't going to change the fact that we're in the middle of a pretty significant time in history here.
Doesn't mean it has to take up every hour of the day, every media outlet, every website. Some people might come here to, you know, find something interesting to escape from reality for a while.
Huzzah for Matt. Deletions do us all good. Help stop me making a jerk of myself, anyway.
posted by Jimbob at 12:46 PM on November 12, 2004
I'd rather there be a hundred threads with links to origami galleries
Look, pal, if that's what you want to see on MetaFilter, instead of complaining all the time, why don't you post something about...
oh. wait. oops.
posted by soyjoy at 12:53 PM on November 12, 2004
Look, pal, if that's what you want to see on MetaFilter, instead of complaining all the time, why don't you post something about...
oh. wait. oops.
posted by soyjoy at 12:53 PM on November 12, 2004
maybe it did, but not with the message you hoped for.
Andrew, you talk as if I was engaged in a petty, self-serving campaign that encouraged shitty posts. As if I only acted the way I did so that I could help Kerry win. I've always been hands off, since day one, and during the elections I remained hands off. There wasn't any change in behavior.
Leading up to the election, I thought the number of pointless op-eds from both sides got to be too much, but mostly it was lefty ax grinders that annoyed the shit out of me, looking back. Well, I've decided that things need to change around here and being a bit more diligent about deleting petty political op eds is where I'm starting.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 12:55 PM on November 12, 2004
Andrew, you talk as if I was engaged in a petty, self-serving campaign that encouraged shitty posts. As if I only acted the way I did so that I could help Kerry win. I've always been hands off, since day one, and during the elections I remained hands off. There wasn't any change in behavior.
Leading up to the election, I thought the number of pointless op-eds from both sides got to be too much, but mostly it was lefty ax grinders that annoyed the shit out of me, looking back. Well, I've decided that things need to change around here and being a bit more diligent about deleting petty political op eds is where I'm starting.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 12:55 PM on November 12, 2004
You can't change! We can be asinine dorks and look through your comment/posting history, and say, "A HA! In October 1999 you said 'I agree with this issue!'" Ahahahah! There's no escape from our ridiculous whiny Metafilter user logic, give in Matt!
posted by Stan Chin at 1:50 PM on November 12, 2004
posted by Stan Chin at 1:50 PM on November 12, 2004
I side with Matt here; the election is over, so the names "Bush" and / or "Kerry" in an article isn't substantial enough to warrant a post. I didn't think it did before the election, but it certainly doesn't now.
Unless Bush does something that makes the world stand still, then I highly doubt it's really going to be worthy of an FPP. Besides, with all the -- dare I say it -- "shock and awe" over the election results, can't we all agree that something NEW and completely UNRELATED would probably benefit the Mefi readership more-than yet another political thread?
I want to know more about having sex in black holes, and less about what some lunatic and his congregation of fellow nutjobs thinks about the president. And I don't want to hear about Bob Jones and his buddies either! ;)
posted by Dark Messiah at 2:21 PM on November 12, 2004
Unless Bush does something that makes the world stand still, then I highly doubt it's really going to be worthy of an FPP. Besides, with all the -- dare I say it -- "shock and awe" over the election results, can't we all agree that something NEW and completely UNRELATED would probably benefit the Mefi readership more-than yet another political thread?
I want to know more about having sex in black holes, and less about what some lunatic and his congregation of fellow nutjobs thinks about the president. And I don't want to hear about Bob Jones and his buddies either! ;)
posted by Dark Messiah at 2:21 PM on November 12, 2004
The less said about Bush and Kerry, the better. Just because you US Americans inflicted them on yourselves doesn't mean the rest of us should suffer along!
Here's a winning tactic: every time you want to post something about an American politician, post pornography instead. The message will be about the same either way, but more of us will enjoy the latter.
posted by five fresh fish at 2:35 PM on November 12, 2004
Here's a winning tactic: every time you want to post something about an American politician, post pornography instead. The message will be about the same either way, but more of us will enjoy the latter.
posted by five fresh fish at 2:35 PM on November 12, 2004
Kerry Bush.
Please don't post pornography. It bores me. I much prefer Flash Fun and origami galleries.
posted by Sidhedevil at 2:44 PM on November 12, 2004
Please don't post pornography. It bores me. I much prefer Flash Fun and origami galleries.
posted by Sidhedevil at 2:44 PM on November 12, 2004
With Matt's delete button all oiled up and killing threads left and right, Milov's deleted threads bookmarklet is a handy way to see what you've missed.
posted by karmaville at 2:52 PM on November 12, 2004
posted by karmaville at 2:52 PM on November 12, 2004
Possibly if there were some sort of post keyword-filtering that would automatically direct users to Plastic.com if they got too political...
posted by stet at 3:42 PM on November 12, 2004
posted by stet at 3:42 PM on November 12, 2004
Peer pressure is an amazing and mysterious thing.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 7:17 AM on November 13, 2004
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 7:17 AM on November 13, 2004
(James Mason voice)
"Pat, could you do us with a song"
posted by clavdivs at 11:41 AM on November 13, 2004
"Pat, could you do us with a song"
posted by clavdivs at 11:41 AM on November 13, 2004
You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments
On the other hand, of course:
Fuck Neal Pollack.
posted by soyjoy at 9:53 AM on November 12, 2004