New post with more info requested May 17, 2006 8:58 PM   Subscribe

I was intrigued by thirteenkiller's post about the possibility of an impressive ancient pyramid in Bosnia. Now I see the story is getting some traction. I went to the original post hoping to add the link as a comment; but, it said, "This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments."

I don't want to FPP this follow-up. I want to call it to thirteenkiller's attention. I think thirteenkiller has already researched this once and may want to follow up with another really swell post (I sure liked the first one).

How do I do that?
posted by taosbat to Etiquette/Policy at 8:58 PM (30 comments total)



Oh, traction!

sorry for the tone of voice, but this whole story really cheeses me off for some reason.
posted by imposster at 9:20 PM on May 17, 2006


Forgot to add: I think it is worth reposting in light of the evidence to the contrary. Sad to say that when the Daily Show covered the story, I assumed it was true. I thank internet for ruining my dreams of a giant pyramid in Bosnia.
posted by imposster at 9:23 PM on May 17, 2006


see also
posted by MetaMonkey at 9:26 PM on May 17, 2006


I think it is worth reposting in light of the evidence to the contrary

I think you're incorrect about that.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 9:27 PM on May 17, 2006


How do I do that?

email works superbly for things like this.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 9:35 PM on May 17, 2006 [1 favorite]


I'm sure glad I didn't FPP. I don't want to flame about this, I just want to know more. Already folks are whipping up debunking articles; yet, the article I asked about is newer than those linked here and it says:
An Egyptian geologist who arrived to check on claims by an amateur researcher that a hill in central Bosnia is hiding an ancient pyramid said Wednesday the structure is man made and worth investigating.
I looked for an email link on thirteenkiller's profile but didn't find one. If you see one, please direct me to it. I had a little trouble reading the profile....the 'party' background makes things a little hard to read.
posted by taosbat at 9:52 PM on May 17, 2006


You are correct: there is not an email specified on his page.

Give the boy a break, mathowie ;-) Granted, he probably should have pointed out that he looked for an email address on the profile page already because I for one expected 9 people to reply with "email!", but still...
posted by twiggy at 9:55 PM on May 17, 2006


Taosbat = 100% woman. Though she seems like she can defend herself just fine, be nice, you swarthy ratbastards.

Sheesh. Don't you people stalk users through the profile pages?
posted by loquacious at 9:58 PM on May 17, 2006


She, thanks. And I should have mentioned that I looked for an email or other means of direct contact before I posted here: my bad.
posted by taosbat at 10:00 PM on May 17, 2006


Sure we do, Jason.
posted by Jimbob at 10:01 PM on May 17, 2006


be nice, you swarthy ratbastards

I'm not looking for a fight, just a sensible follow-up to an interesting [apparently more controversial than I realized] post. Still, thanks for the vote of confidence, loquacious.
posted by taosbat at 10:06 PM on May 17, 2006


Which brings me to the more salient question— What do you use to create those b&w spiral op art pieces, loquacious? Illustrator? How? I've been wanting to do something similar for poster design and have been stymied.
posted by klangklangston at 10:06 PM on May 17, 2006


those b&w spiral op art pieces make me queasy.
posted by taosbat at 10:16 PM on May 17, 2006


Heya taosbat. I've never been called out positively before! Thanks! I'm glad you liked my post. I would be happy to post an update FPP with your article and the others people have here. I'll work on that tomorrow, unless someone else does it before then. Which would also be okay.

:)

(also 100% woman)
posted by thirteenkiller at 10:24 PM on May 17, 2006


Thanks, thirteenkiller, I hoped this post would catch your attention. I think this topic is interesting and I'll be watching to see how it all develops.

Your original post was very informative. I'll watch for an FPP.
posted by taosbat at 10:36 PM on May 17, 2006


While it seems clear that experts dispute Mr. Osmanagic's clearly bogus anthropological conclusions, I don't see anyone disputing his actual archeology. At best, other archeologists complain that Mr. Osmanagic's work will divert funds from their own work and possibly damage other sites.

Has anyone outside of the Osmanagic inner circle examined and commented on the claimed stone blocks?
posted by b1tr0t at 11:32 PM on May 17, 2006


"My opinion is that this is a type of pyramid, probably a primitive pyramid," said Dr. Aly Abd Alla Barakata, a geologist from the Egyptian Mineral Resource Authority.
posted by taosbat at 11:40 PM on May 17, 2006


My archrival-nemesis, thirteenkiller got postively called out before I did? I am disappointed with myself.
posted by TwelveTwo at 1:13 AM on May 18, 2006


Oh for god's sake. If you're going to post about this again, please use the batshitinsane tag. From the National Geographic article:
Prominent Bosnian archaeologists entered the scrum early on, denouncing the dig and lobbying to shut it down.

Anthony Harding, president of the Czech Republic-based European Association of Archaeologists, has dismissed Osmanagic's ideas as "wacky" and "absurd."

Garrett Fagan, of Pennsylvania State University in University Park, has slammed the project. He says that the dig will destroy bona fide archaeological sites in the area.

He recently told the London Times newspaper: "It's as if someone were given permission to bulldoze Stonehenge to find secret chambers of lost ancient wisdom underneath."

Experts shovel some of their scorn on the media, which have been trumpeting Osmanagic's astounding announcements in recent weeks.

Many news Web sites, including the Washington Post, the Boston Globe, MSNBC, and ABC, ran a credulous Associated Press story dated April 19 that carried the headline, "Experts Find Evidence of Bosnia Pyramid."

In response, the executive editor of New York-based Archaeology magazine, Mark Rose, blasted Osmanagic as a quack and the press as gullible.

To emphasize his case, Rose quoted from online excerpts of a 2005 book by Osmanagic about the Maya.

Passages from the book suggest the Maya descended from the people of the mythical city of Atlantis, who themselves are aliens who came to Earth from the Pleiades star cluster.
But probably all those archeologists were paid off by the space aliens and/or the people of Atlantis.
posted by languagehat at 5:41 AM on May 18, 2006




Ha TwelveTwo! You've got some serious ground to make up, little brother.
posted by thirteenkiller at 7:18 AM on May 18, 2006


Wow, leave it to the female half of MeFi to have an adult conversation here in MeTa. I was all ready to post random images and various simpsons quotes as part of the ensuing flameout. Boo, I say, Boo!
posted by blue_beetle at 7:39 AM on May 18, 2006


Ah, you beat me to it languagehat. The flow of this story around the web has been doing my head in: half the articles I've seen trumpeting the pyramid find were published after it'd been debunked and Osmanagic was revealed to be a credibility-free alien-licking loon. Though to be honest, I suspect it mostly does my head in because I love the idea undiscovered pyramid-building ancient civilisation of the Balkans! And that's because I'm totally obsessed with the former Yugoslavia, due to a childhood misapprehension that it was the place of good and honourable communism - which, in my defence, is what people would tell children holidaying there in the 1980s without prompting, going so far as to brandish their passports as proof that they were free to leave, but chose not to, and pointing to the portrait of Tito they were obliged to hang on the wall. More recently, buying old Commie tat in Zagreb, I got the same lectures in a weird pidgin combo of German, English and Serbo-Croat from ladies of a certain age, dabbing their eyes and clasping portraits of the late partisan to their bosoms (I was being conned, I'm sure, since you don't haggle so much with teary old dears). Sorry to go on - what do you call homesickness for somewhere that isn't your home?!
posted by jack_mo at 7:49 AM on May 18, 2006


Has anyone entertained the idea that he might be an alien-licking loon, but still be right about the pyramid? He might have accidentally found something amazing. I think it's worth digging a few holes to find out.
posted by empath at 10:11 AM on May 18, 2006


FWIW, I'm an archaeologist and based on what I've read I support the use of the batshitinsane tag for this story. These kooks are a dime a dozen and their wet dream is to get this level of attention.
posted by Rumple at 12:41 PM on May 18, 2006


And what is the wet-dream of the more expensive archeologists, Rumple?
posted by Dunwitty at 9:19 PM on May 18, 2006


Tenure, a cold beer, and a hot date.
posted by Rumple at 12:03 AM on May 19, 2006


This site has genuine (non fake- pyramid) archaeological remains on it which need to be protected. Have you ever seen the damage which amateur 'enthusiasts' with whacky theories can do a site by 'digging a few holes'? I have and it's not pretty. It permanently and irrevocably destroys part of a country's national heritage in favour of somebody's looney-tunes pet theory.

As for the Egyptian 'expert', I find it somewhat surprising that a geologist doesn't appear to understand the effects of glaciation in the area.

" Construction of massive pyramids in Bosnia at that period is not believable. Curtis Runnels, a specialist in the prehistory of Greece and the Balkans at Boston University, notes that "Between 27,000 and 12,000 years ago, the Balkans were locked in the last Glacial maximum, a period of very cold and dry climate with glaciers in some of the mountain ranges. The only occupants were Upper Paleolithic hunters and gatherers who left behind open-air camp sites and traces of occupation in caves. These remains consist of simple stone tools, hearths, and remains of animals and plants that were consumed for food. These people did not have the tools or skills to engage in the construction of monumental architecture."
posted by Flitcraft at 2:01 PM on May 19, 2006


From the arc haeology-mod discussion list:

Well we've all seen all the hoo-ha and excitement in all the press shouting about the Bosnian pyramid ... well here's some news that didn't make it out of Bosnia on the "pyramid." I can't give you the url for the article as I can't assess the Federation of Bosnia-Herzegovina News Agency archive
without being a member and I can't find where I can subscribe either.


"Tuzla (FENA). Professors from the Faculty of Mining and Geology (web page:
http://www.rggf.untz.ba/) at the University of Tuzla (web page:
http://www.untz.ba/index_en.htm), acting members of the Geological
explorations team that did geological studies of the Visocica hill near
Visoko (the locality of an alleged Bosnian pyramid), presented today at a
press conference in Tuzla the final results of their research completed at
the request by the Foundation "Arheoloski park Bosanska piramida sunca"
Visoko. The team leader Professor Dr. Sejfudin Vrabac
(http://www.rggf.untz.ba/rggfosoblje/nosoblje_sejfudinv.htm) said that they
have concluded that Visoèica hill is a natural geological formation, made of
classic sediments of layered composition and varying thickness, and that its
shape is a consequence of endodynamical and egsodynamical processes in
post-Miocene era. According to Professor Vrabac who specializes in
paleogeology, there are dozens of like morphological formations in the
Sarajevo-Zenica mining basin alone. The Geological team report on Visocica,
based on the data collected in six drill holes at 3 to 17 m depths, is
supported by the Research and Teaching Council of the Faculty of Mining and
Geology, as well as the Association of Geologists of Federation of Bosnia
and Herzegovina.

Representatives of the Foundation "Bosanska piramida sunca" from Visoko were
present at the press conference, and a member of that foundation and the
coordinator for geological research Ms. Nadzija Nukic (BS geology, U of
Tuzla 1971) rejected the research findings by the scientific staff from the
University of Tuzla, stating that their research was "too superficial for
making final conclusions". According to her, there are "too many elements
that point at the conclusion that human hand took part in building the
pyramid". She added that the excavations will continue as planned,
announcing a visit by the pyramid and geology experts from Egypt in mid-May.
According to her, "they should provide answers to some questions by the
method of comparison". She added that it is her understanding that the
Visocica hill near Visoko is not a lone example as there are nine objects or
natural formations shaped as pyramids on the territory of Bosnia and
Herzegovina, which "can hardly be a coincidence". "Tunnels, the existence of
which is undeniable, also lead to the need for additional explorations that,
regardless of the report by the University of Tuzla, are continuing", said
Nukic."

I find it interesting to note that the people promoting this as a pyramid
said that the geologists research was "too superficial" when these are
geologists who are very familar with the area, and yet are screaming to high
heaven about a geologist from Egypt who was onsite less than a day when he
said it was man-made.
posted by Rumple at 12:55 AM on May 21, 2006


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