Nip this in the bud October 12, 2006 3:32 PM   Subscribe

Matt or Jess, you might want to nip this in the bud.
posted by monju_bosatsu to Bugs at 3:32 PM (89 comments total)

choke and die, jackpot.
posted by boo_radley at 3:36 PM on October 12, 2006


what an asshat.
posted by bob sarabia at 3:37 PM on October 12, 2006


wow. good eye, monju.
posted by micayetoca at 3:37 PM on October 12, 2006


Had just prepped up a similar MeTa post to complain. 12 comments today, all spamming for Casino sites? Please ban him and his IP.

(Choking and dying is good, too.)
posted by Happydaz at 3:38 PM on October 12, 2006


Excellent callout, great work.
monkey slots | interweb casiondrome
posted by cortex at 3:38 PM on October 12, 2006


intercasino download is where all the pedophiles gamble, innit?
posted by mds35 at 3:38 PM on October 12, 2006


got it, douchebag removed.

(while I got you here, test this out! it has lots of bugs but should be finished soon)
posted by mathowie (staff) at 3:41 PM on October 12, 2006 [2 favorites]


whoa.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 3:41 PM on October 12, 2006


O-la-la. Very nice (and a bit WikiMedia-ish)
posted by MikeKD at 3:43 PM on October 12, 2006


Bam! Haughey with the sucker punch!

The "Popular Favorites" tab took it's SWEET ASS TIME loading the first time I clicked it, but I clicked to another tab and band and it zipped right up. All in all, dandy.
posted by cortex at 3:43 PM on October 12, 2006


Since jackpot has now disappeared down the memory hole, can someone please fill the rest of us in?
posted by grouse at 3:44 PM on October 12, 2006


Indeed. Very nice!
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 3:44 PM on October 12, 2006


Holy crap, mathowie, that's awesome, but I spend too much time on Ask MeFi as it is. I am afraid.
posted by danb at 3:44 PM on October 12, 2006


Thanks matt, that asshole shat in my beautiful snowflake of a post.

That tab view is strange and wonderful. I like the favorites options.

What's the time frame for the recent tab?
posted by OmieWise at 3:45 PM on October 12, 2006


Also: love the new AskMe interface.
posted by grouse at 3:45 PM on October 12, 2006


That is awesome, matt!
posted by Effigy2000 at 3:47 PM on October 12, 2006


The "recent" tab is the default last 50 questions front page view
posted by mathowie (staff) at 3:48 PM on October 12, 2006


FAWESOME
posted by scrump at 3:49 PM on October 12, 2006


Those tabs are awesome. Can we get tabs for "Asshatery" and "Recent Flameouts" here in MetaTalk?
posted by slogger at 3:56 PM on October 12, 2006 [1 favorite]


I like it!
posted by dan g. at 3:57 PM on October 12, 2006


grouse, pretty much every comment looked like what cortex posted, with some vague reference to the topic, and then the exact same links to two gambling sites.

I like the tabs, and this is probably what you meant by "lots of bugs", but just in case it's not: only the main tab has a stylesheet for me.
posted by scottreynen at 3:59 PM on October 12, 2006


nice!
posted by Mister_A at 4:00 PM on October 12, 2006


Pretty!!!
posted by echo0720 at 4:02 PM on October 12, 2006


Thanks scottreynen. Good riddance.
posted by grouse at 4:05 PM on October 12, 2006


Now that? Is way sexy.
posted by sugarfish at 4:11 PM on October 12, 2006


supercalifragalisticexpealidocious...


now.. is that spelled right, without the spell check I can't tell, but that's ok, because tabs are super
posted by edgeways at 4:16 PM on October 12, 2006


Holy Chesapeake crabcakes, Matt, that's extra cool. Go team!
posted by gleuschk at 4:23 PM on October 12, 2006


Very spiffy.
posted by InfidelZombie at 4:28 PM on October 12, 2006


Ooooh! Shiny!
posted by moira at 4:37 PM on October 12, 2006


There is another class of thread. Stuff I'm following/reading, but that I haven't favorited. If there was a way to track threads I've clicked into, that would be super duper swell.

I know I could do it myself by actually favoriting stuff, but that seems like such a big commitment to make to a thread, and what's one more DB table/column/whatever between friends?
posted by willnot at 4:37 PM on October 12, 2006


Just imagine it's called a bookmark instead of a favorite.
posted by smackfu at 4:46 PM on October 12, 2006


CoreyHartFilter. Fine Canadian cheese.
posted by timeistight at 4:52 PM on October 12, 2006


Wow, I love it!
posted by KAS at 4:55 PM on October 12, 2006


Those tabs are fan-tastic. Thanks, Matt.

Third the suggestion about "bookmark" as a new category for AskMe. I am among MeFi's most prolific favoriters, always running up against the 140 favorite limit, so another category for those tabs would be good.

(Also a way to organize Favorites would be fun, but there are other ways for me to do that sort of thing that don't require work by Matt).
posted by ibmcginty at 4:56 PM on October 12, 2006


CoreyHart Filter.

When he was a minor league prospect, I was so pissed when I realized that Corey Hart didn't do "The Future's So Bright (I Gotta Wear Shades)," but rather that other 80s sunglasses-related song.
posted by ibmcginty at 4:59 PM on October 12, 2006


140 favorite limit

Huh? I've saved 264 favorites.

As far as I know, anyway.
posted by dersins at 5:00 PM on October 12, 2006


Huh. Well, I am open to the view that I just did something dumb.
posted by ibmcginty at 5:01 PM on October 12, 2006


w00t!
posted by scody at 5:05 PM on October 12, 2006


The tabs are beautiful!

One note: in the Unanswered tab, the Older Questions link doesn't go to older unanswered questions, just to page two of the regular view. And the Answered tab just has a Current Archive link instead of Older Questions, which seems a bit inconsistent.
posted by moss at 5:21 PM on October 12, 2006


Third the suggestion about "bookmark" as a new category for AskMe. I am among MeFi's most prolific favoriters, always running up against the 140 favorite limit, so another category for those tabs would be good.

There is no limit on favorites. And there will be no separate feature for bookmarks, because that is part of what favorites is supposed to do.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 5:22 PM on October 12, 2006


Word.
posted by Rhomboid at 5:23 PM on October 12, 2006


It's a great improvement; fantastic work. A couple of suggestions:

1) Should "unanswered" actually be those posts without a Best Answer? There are plenty of questions with 1 or 2 responses but none which actually answer the question. For example.

2) Filtering by category as per recent examples? With cookies to set your preferred view. Not sure how you'd do this via tabs, though. Maybe use the RH bar?

3) When you use a filtered view, it should show 50 questions rather than a subset of the current frontpage 50.

4) A reminder about adding the question's category to the "category" tag in the feed.

Again, fantastic work. Thanks.
posted by blag at 5:39 PM on October 12, 2006


(while I got you here, test this out! it has lots of bugs but should be finished soon)
posted by mathowie at 3:41 PM PST on October 12


Fantastic.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 5:47 PM on October 12, 2006


Unanswered is kind of useless. Any chance of implementing the stumped gubbins discussed previously?
posted by cillit bang at 6:06 PM on October 12, 2006


that other 80s sunglasses-related song.

oh yeah, ZZ Top...
posted by quonsar at 6:11 PM on October 12, 2006


Unanswered is kind of useless.

Disagree. Strongly. It's both potentially useful AND fascinating.
posted by dersins at 6:26 PM on October 12, 2006 [1 favorite]


The "unanswered" page with all 0-answer questions is great. I thought it was going to be questions without a "best" answer, but this is better.
posted by scarabic at 6:27 PM on October 12, 2006


1) Should "unanswered" actually be those posts without a Best Answer? There are plenty of questions with 1 or 2 responses but none which actually answer the question.

I guess the reason I think it's best as it is would be that the "best answer" doesn't always get applied reliably. There are plenty of questions which receive mnay great answers and never get a "best answer" marked.

It's useful for helping the underserved questions get attention, cillit bang.
posted by scarabic at 6:29 PM on October 12, 2006


Unanswered is kind of useless. Any chance of implementing the stumped gubbins discussed previously?

What is the difference between "stumped" and "no answers yet" in your world? And how is "stumped" recorded in the database aside from "comments = 0".
posted by mathowie (staff) at 6:30 PM on October 12, 2006


stumped would be a question flagged by the asker, on an opt-in basis, as "no good answers after reasonable time period has passed".
posted by cortex at 6:35 PM on October 12, 2006


stumped would be a question flagged reposted by the asker, on an opt-in basis, as "no good answers after reasonable time period has passed". one week.

Seems like that would be a little less work for Matt.
posted by dersins at 6:42 PM on October 12, 2006


mathowie writes "And how is 'stumped' recorded in the database aside from 'comments = 0'."

This?
posted by peacay at 6:48 PM on October 12, 2006


(Oh..nice feature, thanks Matt)
posted by peacay at 6:48 PM on October 12, 2006


Sweeet.
posted by R. Mutt at 6:49 PM on October 12, 2006


brilliant.
posted by phoenixc at 7:08 PM on October 12, 2006


stumped would be a question flagged by the asker, on an opt-in basis, as "no good answers after reasonable time period has passed".

I don't want to do anything that requires active input, because few people would use it. I'm trying to automate views of the data that we have already, without any need for user education or new flags or anything. In the few short hours I've been playing with it, the unanswered pile is like an inbox of places you can help out on. Looking at the data, we have about one question a day that goes unanswered indefinitely and I'm sure this tab would eliminate those.

1) Should "unanswered" actually be those posts without a Best Answer? There are plenty of questions with 1 or 2 responses but none which actually answer the question. For example.

Unanswered means just no comments yet. I'm going to add some text to the page to explain this.

2) Filtering by category as per recent examples? With cookies to set your preferred view. Not sure how you'd do this via tabs, though. Maybe use the RH bar?

Categories wouldn't work with the tabs no, so I dropped them entirely from the other tabs (it's another db lookup for every post and a little more work to get it). We already have pages for each Category, so I guess I don't see much use in filtering out categories from any page. What is an RH bar?

3) When you use a filtered view, it should show 50 questions rather than a subset of the current frontpage 50.

The other tabs have nothing to do with the frontpage 50 questions. They're actually completely new queries. The favorites ones might not be querying the TOP 50 because of processing, I think the popular favorites one just goes back 24 hours.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 7:15 PM on October 12, 2006


What is an RH bar?

RH bar = Right-Hand bar = sidebar
/assumption


brilliant as usual, mathowie. thank you.
posted by carsonb at 7:32 PM on October 12, 2006


So this jackpot guy was just some signal from the Cabal for the kids to come check out the cool new shit, eh?
posted by If I Had An Anus at 8:26 PM on October 12, 2006


There is no limit on favorites. And there will be no separate feature for bookmarks, because that is part of what favorites is supposed to do.
posted by mathowie

Is the issue here in the terminology? I mean, was the original suggestion that it should be 'bookmark' rather than 'favourites'?

I've seen a few AskMe posts that people wanted to 'track', but didn't really consider a 'favourite'. It seems a bit distasteful at times to say the post about abusive relationships is a 'favourite'... Maybe 'track' is a better word?
posted by ranglin at 10:19 PM on October 12, 2006


I'm not changing the name (for the thousandth time, it's purposely vague so it can be both a bookmark and a vote of this is good it is called favorites by design).
posted by mathowie (staff) at 10:48 PM on October 12, 2006


Ooooh, shiny new feature. This is very sweet, thanks for making it :)
posted by TheDonF at 11:54 PM on October 12, 2006


Lovely - thanks, Matt!
posted by taz at 12:28 AM on October 13, 2006


OK, but I think you're missing the two really useful features of the C_D mockup:
i) the ability to view the 50 most recent questions without Best Answers, and
ii) the ability to 'drop' certain categories from the front page. For example, you could view all the questions except for those in the "relationships" category. Or just view the "technology", "media" and "computers" categories. You get the idea.
posted by blag at 12:31 AM on October 13, 2006


I like this.

Unanswered means just no comments yet. I'm going to add some text to the page to explain this.

I wonder if this could be adjustable (i.e., fewer than n answers)... or maybe another tab for "lightly answered"? Or maybe just an option to sort ASC by number of answers.

Just because there's been a guess or two doesn't mean the question has been answered.
posted by timeistight at 1:32 AM on October 13, 2006


Yay the shiney feature and the little swirly-balls while it's thinking!

I think the level of resolution should be unanswered/answered because many of the most precisely and accurately answered questions have few or 1 answer.
posted by By The Grace of God at 1:51 AM on October 13, 2006


the ability to view the 50 most recent questions without Best Answers

But 'best answers' aren't meant to indicate that a question has been answered, they're meant to indicate a question that has a 'best answer', a subtle but important distinction.

I often don't mark best answers in a thread where it doesn't seem appropriate, but has been answered. Moreover, people seem to mark best answers while a question is barely or paritally answered, or not answered at all.
posted by MetaMonkey at 2:18 AM on October 13, 2006


the 50 most recent questions without Best Answers

Yeah, that'd fit on a tab in two words or less!
posted by mathowie (staff) at 5:31 AM on October 13, 2006


Just because there's been a guess or two...

or 50

Strong work, #1; look forward to seeing the changes go live.
posted by TedW at 5:59 AM on October 13, 2006


Fantabulosa.

Yeah, that'd fit on a tab in two words or less!

Unbested 50!
posted by jack_mo at 6:13 AM on October 13, 2006


I think the "unanswered = 0 answers" idea is good, because it has no false positives. If you go to that tab, you will never see an answered question, by definition.

The only addition I would make is to add in the ones that are marked "stumped". Since adding a "stumped" tag is a concious effort, it should not add any answered questions to the mix.

Most other suggestions here would require a concious effort to take the question out of unanswered, like marking a best answer. I don't trust that will happen enough to keep the concept useful.
posted by smackfu at 6:37 AM on October 13, 2006


For the thousandth time, the presence or absence of something marked "best answer" has nothing to do with whether a question has actually been answered. "Best answer" is like handing out candies; some people do it to half the respondents, some never do it at all. It's useless as any kind of objective measure.

Great work, Matt!
posted by languagehat at 7:38 AM on October 13, 2006


I like it a lot! Popular favorites is a great idea!

What would you think about a tab for controversial or crowded questions, e.g., ones with more than 40 or 50 replies? It would be kind of like when you pass a store front and you notice a lot of people inside - makes you wonder if there's something interesting going on, and you might want to peek in to see what the fuss was all about.
posted by jasper411 at 8:47 AM on October 13, 2006


You could call jasper411's suggestion "Most Answered". I think it's a cool idea.

I like the new features too, thanks matt, looking forward to seeing this go live.
posted by triv at 8:55 AM on October 13, 2006


Actually, I call jasper411's suggestion "Metatalk". :)
posted by cortex at 8:55 AM on October 13, 2006


Very nice, Matt. However, when you go to a link from one of the tabbed pages, then use the browser's (for IE 6.0, at least) back button, it takes you back to the default "Recent Questions" tab, rather than whatever tab you had been looking at before you clicked on the link.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 8:59 AM on October 13, 2006


That's one helluva pony, Matt.

Hell, that's like freaking War Admiral.
posted by yeti at 9:09 AM on October 13, 2006


it takes you back to the default "Recent Questions" tab, rather than whatever tab you had been looking at before you clicked on the link.

That's ajax for ya. Sucks, doesn't it?
posted by mathowie (staff) at 9:20 AM on October 13, 2006


Whoa. Cool stuff, Matt. I'm really surprised by how few 0-answer questions there are.

(Popular Favorites is fantastic.)
posted by Pontius Pilate at 10:09 AM on October 13, 2006


I wasn't suggesting adding a bookmark flag. I was suggesting that you could very easily track and provide a view of threads I "Recently Viewed".

This seems to perfectly match your stated goal:

I don't want to do anything that requires active input, because few people would use it. I'm trying to automate views of the data that we have already, without any need for user education or new flags or anything.

Keeping track of threads I've clicked into is transparent to the user and provides a very useful view of the data. At least it's very useful to me since I'm constantly having to scroll around or find on page to get back to threads I want to track for a few days but don't care enough long-term to mark it as a favorite. I assume I'm not the only one, but maybe I am.
posted by willnot at 10:18 AM on October 13, 2006


Nifty!
posted by deborah at 11:24 AM on October 13, 2006


How about Recent Answers as well as Recent Questions? Ignoring the best or answered stuff, just sort the questions by the last 50 answered ones.

(This is my preferred view on ILM, it makes a lot of sense there and I would like to see it here as well.)
posted by neustile at 12:59 PM on October 13, 2006


(love the tabs!)
posted by stagewhisper at 1:17 PM on October 13, 2006


There are ins and outs to the theoretical side of the "unanswered" feature, but I think if you look at what's there, you'll see a shitload of really tough questions that need a second chance. Perhaps there are other questions needing more love, but it's a pretty darn good list, and easy to build.
posted by scarabic at 5:52 PM on October 13, 2006


Missed this thread first time around (never would have seen it from the original topic unless it had been pointed out to me). Now it appears it's long gone from the MeTa frontpage, and thus no one will ever read it. But I offer my two cents anyway, because I care, and because I hate those goddamned windmills so much...

Unanswered is kind of useless.

If "unanswered" technically means 0 answers, then yes, it's useless. When I implemented it, I used a simple equation: if a question has received more than 10 answers, or it has received a "best answer," then it's answered. No, that doesn't stop "false positives" (questions that have more than 10 answers but still aren't adequately answered), but that's not the end of the world for two major reasons:
  1. That's 10 more answers than a lot of others posts will ever get.
  2. If you've already got ten posts (or more) on a question that has not yet been answered, you've got people contributing to the thread that will, in all likelihood, come back to the thread with other suggestions.
Small price to pay, if you ask me.

For the thousandth time, the presence or absence of something marked "best answer" has nothing to do with whether a question has actually been answered.

For the thousandth time, if someone marks a best answer, they're tacitly acknowledging that the question has been answered to their satisfaction. Maybe, just maybe, dropping "best answered" questions from the "unanswered" page would give people some fucking pause next time they feel like BA'ing a thread before more than a couple of answers have come up. I know from personal experience that it's really annoying to take half an hour to answer a question fully, only on submission to see that the asshat OP decided to Best Answer the first answer written. It's a cold, hard slap in the face. "Hey, I need help, please!" PSYCHE!

Finally, you're missing category filters.

I've had them on my site forever. I've offered to help you set them up on yours. I really don't understand the problem here.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 9:26 PM on October 17, 2006


I thought the absence of category filters was due to a reluctance to see AskMe become fragmented, rather than a technical issue.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:36 PM on October 17, 2006


What does that mean? People choose to answer the questions that interest them. Some categories you can (ahem) categorically dismiss out of hand because they don't interest you. If people aren't answering questions in certain categories anyway, what's the harm in letting them filter out that noise from the other posts that do interest them? Seems to me like a greater signal:noise ration of questions on the page (per a user's own preference) would result in a greater number of questions being answered, as opposed to falling off the frontpage.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 10:07 PM on October 17, 2006


Wow, italics and everything!

Okay, I said "I thought... " not "Matt said... " so, for all I know, I could have just imagined it. Anyhow, filtering strikes me as going against the community vibe in the same way that kill-files do, in that discourages interaction- or rather, encourages people to reduce their interaction with the community as a whole.

I guess one's position is determined by what they feel is more important, user convenience or cultivating and maintaining an awareness of the larger group entity. And yes, "an awareness of the larger group entity" as awkward phrasing, even by my standards, but if I wrote "community" three times in one paragraph I'd have to hang myself.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:58 PM on October 17, 2006


For the thousandth time, if someone marks a best answer, they're tacitly acknowledging that the question has been answered to their satisfaction. Maybe, just maybe, dropping "best answered" questions from the "unanswered" page would give people some fucking pause next time they feel like BA'ing a thread before more than a couple of answers have come up.

C_D nails it. I frequently skip over questions that are marked as having a best answer for this reason.
posted by grouse at 1:39 AM on October 18, 2006


Plenty of folk appear to mark best answers to suggest that that answer is the best type of answer they are looking for, rather than the best overall - sort of the answers which are leading in the right direction, but aren't actually right. Seems fairly self-deating to me, but I see it done all the time. It'd probably be better to leave a comment explaing, rather than using best answers which are ambiguous.
posted by MetaMonkey at 2:32 AM on October 18, 2006


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