Awesome list of music videos nixed December 5, 2006 8:09 AM   Subscribe

Hey, what's up with this? Did SCDB kidnap Matt's dog?
posted by monju_bosatsu to Etiquette/Policy at 8:09 AM (198 comments total) 2 users marked this as a favorite

What's the point of deleting y2karl's collection of youtube links, especially after telling SCDB in no uncertain terms that there's nothing wrong with them?
posted by monju_bosatsu at 8:10 AM on December 5, 2006


.
posted by dios at 8:10 AM on December 5, 2006


I loved that post. Now it's dead and I cry.
posted by SmileyChewtrain at 8:12 AM on December 5, 2006


I like these music posts - they invariably contain stuff I know and love and love to watch, along with new stuff that's damn interesting. More of these posts! More!
posted by algreer at 8:15 AM on December 5, 2006


especially after telling SCDB in no uncertain terms that there's nothing wrong with them?

That's not what Matt said. He said, "A good post might include links to YouTube" — not, "All links to YouTube are good posts."
posted by cribcage at 8:19 AM on December 5, 2006


People flagged it, I guess. I will say this--it's really not as easy as 'Why don't You Just Post Your Search Terms'. Not at all. You have to know who or what you are looking for and then wade through tons of stuff. And then make something coherent of what you find. People should try doing it before they dismiss it. It's not that easy.

I wasn't going to be making a habit of posting YouTube music clips but I came across that Johnny Cash as first Elvis Impersonator Evar clip yesterday, liked it and made it part of a them post. Now it wasn't as much work as the gospel post, I will say that.

But I like how people keep favoriting it even after it was pulled.
posted by y2karl at 8:20 AM on December 5, 2006


theme, not them...
posted by y2karl at 8:21 AM on December 5, 2006


And by the way, you'd think that after the 564th time people jumped all over Matt about a deletion that turned out to be Jessamyn's work — or vice versa — these MeTa complaints would begin to show some equivocation.
posted by cribcage at 8:21 AM on December 5, 2006


Put together a webpage, with links to certain topics (like crazy musical stuff) and post it to projects.
posted by blue_beetle at 8:23 AM on December 5, 2006


That was some great stuff--and favorited by seventeen users, currently. Yeah, he's done quite a few of those, but there's a reason. People like them. y2karl's good at sorting through the chaff of YouTube and giving us the wheat. Those who say his posts are just a dump of search results have obviously never tried searching for anything on YT. It's page after page of crap for a few gems.

Bad deletion.
posted by EarBucket at 8:23 AM on December 5, 2006


But I'll second blue_beetle's suggestion. If y2karl were to make a "Best of YouTube" site, I'd probably check it daily.
posted by EarBucket at 8:24 AM on December 5, 2006


I think the deletion was spot-on. The fact that jonmc's Cheap Trick post still stands is mind boggling, however.
posted by dobbs at 8:26 AM on December 5, 2006


TOO MUCH OF GOOD THING RRRAR

Karl, independent of how this thread plays out, have you considered a dedicated blog for this? I think there're a lot of folks who'd glom onto "you2ubekarl" or whatever.
posted by cortex at 8:29 AM on December 5, 2006


Maybe matt likes Cheap Trick, dude.
posted by jonmc at 8:29 AM on December 5, 2006


If y2karl were to make a "Best of YouTube" site, I'd probably check it daily.

Alternatively, I think you'd be welcome to post these at MetaChat if Matt doesn't want them here.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 8:32 AM on December 5, 2006


I think these would be great as a weekly thing (Did YouTubesday ever get official sanction?) and would definitely visit You2ubeKarl.com, but three days in a row seems a bit much.

And what dobbs said.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 8:34 AM on December 5, 2006


I like Cheap Trick too, but I was pretty flabbergasted at that post.
posted by nickmark at 8:39 AM on December 5, 2006


I was drinking and listening to it, and felt like sharing. I'm surprised it got as many comments as it did and a little suprised at the vehemence of some people's response to it, but what can you do?
posted by jonmc at 8:41 AM on December 5, 2006


It is really kind of a Harrison Bergeron-ish walking around on eggshells situation here today.
posted by y2karl at 8:42 AM on December 5, 2006


FWIW karl, I've been enjoying your youtube stuff.
posted by jonmc at 8:43 AM on December 5, 2006


What's the point of deleting y2karl's collection of youtube links,

People are flagging them and I'm getting annoyed by them personally. It's a giant link dump that takes up the space of two posts, and inside there were a dozen more linked dump youtube pointers. I don't know who has the time to push through 25 videos five minutes in length each but the format is getting old. Once is cool, everyone liked y2karl's Nov 10th post and they still kind of liked the Nov 30th post. But again yesterday and once again today? It's getting old and a bit played out. y2karl, it's time to start a youtube blog for yourself, or try out a new post format/site to link to.

especially after telling SCDB in no uncertain terms that there's nothing wrong with them?

SCDB wanted a definitive statement of me condemning all links to youtube and Google video for the contest.

And we gave jonmc a pass because he was probably drunk and it was a one-time thing to a so-so music video late at night. If jonmc made it a habit to post to lame-ish so-so videos, I'd be way more likely to delete.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 8:47 AM on December 5, 2006


I think it was deleted because Karl posted a similar post the past two days and it was the same concept basically. I love the Y2Karl, but I agree with this. Space them out and do something differnt every time, Like start doing non youtube
posted by wheelieman at 8:47 AM on December 5, 2006


And we gave jonmc a pass because he was probably drunk

Yeesh. I've officially become MeFi's retarded cousin that they make allowances for.
posted by jonmc at 8:49 AM on December 5, 2006 [7 favorites]


Just call me Captain Obvious.
posted by wheelieman at 8:49 AM on December 5, 2006


i've switched from loathing youtube to appreciating via y2karl, but it really is too overwhelming (esp monday) to be presented with such an amount of information. a similar post discussed here also opened with an impenetrable glut of information, and it's kinda started to bug me. i come to mf because others provide concise summaries and links through which i don't have to wade.
posted by localhuman at 9:21 AM on December 5, 2006


I've officially become MeFi's retarded cousin

you've been here longer than anybody else but Matt. Membership has its privileges, like AmEx
posted by matteo at 9:23 AM on December 5, 2006


*picks nose, plays with plastic daisy*
posted by jonmc at 9:25 AM on December 5, 2006


*calls jonmc George*
posted by konolia at 9:29 AM on December 5, 2006


*world ends in nuclear holocaust while retard plays with daisy*
posted by Armitage Shanks at 9:31 AM on December 5, 2006 [1 favorite]


Could you not give y2karl a pass because he had YouTuber's High?
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 9:51 AM on December 5, 2006


Ah, so that's what Eliot was talking about.
posted by felix betachat at 9:52 AM on December 5, 2006


People are flagging them and I'm getting annoyed by them personally.

Finally, the post that makes me go from lurker to member.

Well, at least, you're five dollars ahead on this--that should assuage the annoyance a bit.
posted by y2karl at 9:58 AM on December 5, 2006


you've been here longer than anybody else but Matt.

didn't he simply purchase/barter that user number?
posted by quonsar at 10:12 AM on December 5, 2006


Just think, y2karl, if you GYOB, that sweet, sweet $5 would be yours.
posted by grouse at 10:24 AM on December 5, 2006


Is there a recording of Cheap Trick's "I want you to want me" that doesn't have crowd sounds in it?
posted by ODiV at 10:25 AM on December 5, 2006


And we gave jonmc a pass because he was probably drunk.

jon, dude, how do you get them to do that? Teach me.
posted by Meatbomb at 10:29 AM on December 5, 2006


So, clearly there's a huge audience for these kinds of posts, and clearly there's a large group of people annoyed by the format (for whatever reason). Maybe just keep doing them, but less frequently? I don't really know the solution, but I do know that schtick can get cloying, even if it's something awesome (which I personally think those YouTube posts are).
posted by jonson at 10:30 AM on December 5, 2006


quonsar - that was OneBallJay. There are also a few others who come in from time to time with user numbers lower than jon's (camworld comes to mind), but jon is definitely the lowest-numbered regular.

Cripes, why do I know this shit.
posted by yhbc at 10:31 AM on December 5, 2006


mathowie: "And we gave jonmc a pass because he was probably drunk and it was a one-time thing to a so-so music video late at night. If jonmc made it a habit to post to lame-ish so-so videos, I'd be way more likely to delete."

I agree that a single link to youtube is usually bad. I even agree that this one wasn't so good. But I object strenuously to the notion that Cheap Trick playing "Surrender" live even belongs in the same sentence as the words "lame-ish" and "so-so." If you really think that, you don't know what rocking is.
posted by koeselitz at 10:42 AM on December 5, 2006


*Shows up in short school bus painted blue, green and grey.*

*Honks horn*

jonmc, your ride is here.
posted by YoBananaBoy at 10:43 AM on December 5, 2006


Jon
I think we can hook you up with a decent part-time gig at McDonald's now that you've been diagnosed, you might have to wear a helmet but you can put some bitchin' REO Speedwagon stickers on it and it's all the unthawed apple pies you can cram down. Think about it bro...
posted by Divine_Wino at 10:54 AM on December 5, 2006


Is there a recording of Cheap Trick's "I want you to want me" that doesn't have crowd sounds in it?
posted by ODiV at 12:25 PM CST on December 5


It was originally a track on "In Color" (1977).
posted by SuperSquirrel at 11:01 AM on December 5, 2006


...but the "In Color" version isn't as good-- more synthy, less ballsy. In the '90's, though, they re-recorded the whole "in color" album as "in color and black and white" with steve albini. I don't think it's available commercially, but you can probably find a copy. That's the best studio version of "I want you to want me" available.
posted by koeselitz at 11:04 AM on December 5, 2006


I think we can hook you up with a decent part-time gig at McDonald's...

And thus we cross the line from "making fun" into "mocking the handicapped."
posted by cribcage at 11:09 AM on December 5, 2006


cribcage: Divine Wino is my friend. Trust me, he's goofing on me, not disabled people.
posted by jonmc at 11:12 AM on December 5, 2006


Quentin Tarantino says there are two types of people: Elvis people and Beatles people. Elvis people can like the Beatles, and vice versa. But in life, you're one or the other.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:15 AM on December 5, 2006 [1 favorite]


I hereby request a single like post of jonmc, via webcam, performing (and singing along with) Surrender in Guitar Hero II.
posted by cortex at 11:16 AM on December 5, 2006


I enjoy Y2karl's posts, but they're kind of like latter-day Prince albums. Just because you can release triple-albums doesn't mean you should. Kill your darlings and pick the ten best tracks instead of slopping so much (good) music into a post that discussion of any one track becomes impossible. I mean, maybe someone could put together a good post about the Ronettes only to find that Karl already put a link to a live version of "Be My Baby" in the third batch of links in a huge post.
posted by Bookhouse at 11:18 AM on December 5, 2006


cortex: this will have to do in the meantime
posted by jonmc at 11:18 AM on December 5, 2006


Nice!
posted by cortex at 11:20 AM on December 5, 2006


The ongoing youtube posts fall into the GYOB category. Once in a while it has the feeling of "hey I'd like to share some cool stuff with the MeFi community" over and over again and it feels like "This is my current obsession and MeFi is where I have a login." Otherwise I pretty much agree with what mathowie said. People favorited it and people flagged it. As a one-time or occasional thing it's a cool post idea, as an ongoing thing it should go on your own blog.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 11:24 AM on December 5, 2006


Think nothing of it
posted by jonmc at 11:25 AM on December 5, 2006


What that post needed was some superscript.
posted by Saucy Intruder at 11:32 AM on December 5, 2006


People are flagging them and I'm getting annoyed by them personally. It's a giant link dump that takes up the space of two posts, and inside there were a dozen more linked dump youtube pointers. I don't know who has the time to push through 25 videos five minutes in length each but the format is getting old.

This makes no sense. People flag all sorts of things, 95% of which (I presume) you don't delete, and I'll bet very few of them get the kind of favorable attention y2karl's do. If it takes up too much space on the front page, use your magic powers to put [more inside] as you do for the idiots who post multiple paragraphs to the front page. As for "who has the time," I presume other people do what I do, which is to keep the post open in a tab and work my way through the treasures as I have time. "The format is getting old"?? What about the "format" of paragraph + link? That's even older, why not move on to something NEW and exciting?

And we gave jonmc a pass because he was probably drunk

Are you kidding (or drunk)? That's just insulting. I have no problem with your leaving jonmc's crappy post up, because I don't go around demanding that every crappy post be deleted, but to ostentatiously choose to leave it up because "huh huh, he's drubk!" while axing y2karl's superb set of videos because it's just too much goodness is insulting to y2karl and to the site. I generally tend to support your decisions because it's your site and I think you do a damn good job overall, but this is just beyond me.
posted by languagehat at 11:47 AM on December 5, 2006 [14 favorites]


What about the "format" of paragraph + link? That's even older, why not move on to something NEW and exciting?

Sounds good to me. How about morse code and ESP? maybe hieroglyphs and interpretive dance?
posted by jonmc at 11:51 AM on December 5, 2006


I was drinking and listening to it, and felt like sharing.

Shouldn't this be when you tell yourself to count to ten and think twice before posting?
posted by spicynuts at 12:05 PM on December 5, 2006


People favorited it and people flagged it.

Well, from my count, as of now, 18 of 30 who tagged it as a favorite--grr, verbism, grr--did so after it was pulled. Which is no small feat, considering the percentage of members who bother to frequent Meta or know about lofi.
posted by y2karl at 12:10 PM on December 5, 2006


languagehat has it. If it's too big, it can be [m.i.]'d. I rarely have any problem with deletions, as they're rare, well-considered, and 100% within Matt & Jess's rights. But this one just doesn't make much sense.

There's some criticism here that y2karl may (or may not) find useful, such as paring down the number of links, or [m.i.]'ing.

But those are suggestions for future posts, far from grounds for deletion.

It's funny, people almost never say that y2karl's posts are poor content, but wow, has the form of his posts led to some serious flipoutation.

Keep your FPPs short, minimize the real estate they take up, is the lesson, I guess. Don't overlook the cost of all that blue ink, and all that energy wasted scrolling down past posts you don't want to read.
posted by ibmcginty at 12:21 PM on December 5, 2006


"And thus we cross the line from 'making fun' into 'mocking the handicapped.'"

Dude, Cheap Trick fans may have poor taste, but they're hardly handicapped.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 12:40 PM on December 5, 2006 [1 favorite]


"Well, from my count, as of now, 18 of 30 who tagged it as a favorite--grr, verbism, grr--did so after it was pulled."

I flagged it as noise after it was deleted, just to cancel out one of the post-deletion favorited.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 12:42 PM on December 5, 2006


This makes no sense.

No, it makes perfect sense. I mentioned the format because it feels like link diarrhea. How many MetaTalk threads do we have on people that put too many links (often one letter = one link) in a post with no explanation under the banner of a central theme? And how many do it several days in a row before everyone calls for their banning? It's happened before.

Also, since it's all Youtube links, it's a bigger problem. You can't scan or skim a youtube post like you can a New Yorker piece. You can't just load something, take a one second look and know if it's worth engaging in fully. Video is problematic that way and when one member goes around barfing up 20 links a day in every post, that's a problem to the rest of the community.

Once in a while, fine, daily thing, not so much.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 12:50 PM on December 5, 2006


From this thread, I have a new word in my vocab, flipoutation. Thanks ibmcginty
posted by wheelieman at 12:52 PM on December 5, 2006


it feels like link diarrhea ... barfing up 20 links a day

Damn, both ends huh? I'd consult AskMe asap.
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 12:54 PM on December 5, 2006


I'd consult AskMe asap.

I've got some serious cloaca regurge action going on right now. What should I do?

Go see a doctor.
posted by cortex at 1:05 PM on December 5, 2006 [1 favorite]


And we gave jonmc a pass because he was probably drunk.

so if i get drunk tonight what do i get a pass on?
posted by pyramid termite at 1:10 PM on December 5, 2006


How many MetaTalk threads do we have on people that put too many links (often one letter = one link) in a post with no explanation under the banner of a central theme?

One could count them on one's fingers, I'll bet.

And how many do it several days in a row before everyone calls for their banning?

In this case, it was two days in a row. Oh, the extreme overload.

At any rate, this was something that would have been better handled in an email.
posted by y2karl at 1:10 PM on December 5, 2006


And I have made 5 whole posts in one month. 5 posts. None on Iraq. You know, people can post every day in theory. I don't.
posted by y2karl at 1:23 PM on December 5, 2006 [1 favorite]


So stop bitching about it and take it to email, whiner.
posted by bob sarabia at 1:24 PM on December 5, 2006


You know, people can post every day in theory

Both in theory and in practice.
posted by jonson at 1:36 PM on December 5, 2006


In this case, it was two days in a row. Oh, the extreme overload.

You did one near midnight on thursday night/friday morn, then monday night/morn around midnight, then early this morning. Your Monday post had approximately a brazillion links. If you totalled up the time from all the youtube videos and sat down to watch them all, I bet someone would still be watching videos trying to get to the end of it.

At any rate, this was something that would have been better handled in an email.

I agree, but hey, someone started this thread thinking I was being inconsistent and still others asked for clarification and even still, people disagreed.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 1:36 PM on December 5, 2006


Maybe this has been brought up before, but here goes. If you're going to explore a cultural phenomenon in a post, could you create a YouTube playlist to accompany said post? I figure it'd be allright. Say, for clarification, I wanted to post something exciting from the world of interpretive dancing.
AVPR1a and SLC6A4 gene polymorphisms are associated with creative dance performance. Department of Psychology, Mount Scopus, Hebrew University, Jerusalem, Israel recently put forth a theory [...and then I somehow moved on to, inside] Interpretive dancing is a form of modern dance in which the dancer's movements depict an emotion or tell a story. Generally [...blah blah] And, by the way, I've put together a playlist on YouTube and you can find it here.
This got quite ridiculous, but I'd still like to know. :)
posted by soundofsuburbia at 1:40 PM on December 5, 2006


Does anybody else miss lime Starbust, or just me? Just me, huh? Carry on.
posted by jonmc at 1:48 PM on December 5, 2006


I like y2karl’s music aggregation posts. I especially appreciate that he has redirected his OCD away from the war for a few minutes. I tend to put his links in a window and click on them one by one as time allows. Sure, he could take up less real estate on the front page. And, yes, I’d follow his blog if he had one.
posted by found missing at 1:50 PM on December 5, 2006


i ate too many sausages: barfing up 20 links a day.
posted by localhuman at 1:50 PM on December 5, 2006


Your Monday post had approximately a brazillion links.

Well, having found them, I do hate to throw things away, I guess. And what I was doing, for better or worse, was trying to write stories with the titles with that one. Hence the links.
posted by y2karl at 1:52 PM on December 5, 2006


bullshit deletion.
posted by petsounds at 1:53 PM on December 5, 2006


Which is why I broke them up into comments. I wasn't expecting anyone to go through any of those posts in one sitting. People bookmark things.
posted by y2karl at 1:53 PM on December 5, 2006


No, people favorite things. We've been over this.
posted by cortex at 1:58 PM on December 5, 2006


I agree, but hey, someone started this thread thinking I was being inconsistent...

Well, my read was that someone started this thread because you deleted the post. All I was trying to do was crush jonson, drive him before me and hear the lamentations of his pugs.
posted by y2karl at 2:00 PM on December 5, 2006 [5 favorites]


So stop bitching about it and take it to email, whiner.

too late now ... besides, it's happy hour, and pretty soon we'll all have an excuse ...
posted by pyramid termite at 2:00 PM on December 5, 2006


Well, this thread is officially a trainwreck now...
posted by Steven C. Den Beste at 2:09 PM on December 5, 2006


Cribcage,
I was teasing Jon a little and mostly referring to these old insulting McDonald's commercials where they offered a rosy view of their employment practices towards mentally retarded people and the elderly. I think teasing people who can't tease back is mean, so I'm sorry if I gave the impression that doing so was my intent.
posted by Divine_Wino at 2:09 PM on December 5, 2006


(And it was Matt's hamster I kidnapped, not his dog.)
posted by Steven C. Den Beste at 2:10 PM on December 5, 2006


All I was trying to do was crush jonson, drive him before me and hear the lamentations of his pugs.

Possibly my favorite comment ever. For what it's worth, your two (three, if we're going by Eastern Standard Time) music posts this month should be viewed as a collective contribution to the site, in my opinion, and one that hundreds of people seem to have really, deeply enjoyed more than I'd imagine any other post this month or most months for that matter could do.

Nice work, karl. You turned your vast knowledge of a wide variety of musical genres into something cool for a ton of people, and the site, for the most part, was delighted.
posted by jonson at 2:41 PM on December 5, 2006


Metafiltarians: I like youtube/google video stuff, etc, etc but lots of people don't. Those of you who do would probably like Video Sift which is sort of a metafilter for the video sites. A lot of you would probably make excellent contributors also. It's one of the sites, like metafilter, that I browse daily.
posted by RustyBrooks at 3:30 PM on December 5, 2006


MetaTalk: even still, people disagreed.
posted by Cyrano at 3:37 PM on December 5, 2006


Thanks, jonson—a very classy comment.

Matt: I remain unconvinced (also pissed and slightly baffled), but it's your site. What you don't like, goes (away). Selah.
posted by languagehat at 3:39 PM on December 5, 2006


You know what you get when mix Starburst with Skittles? Do you! Startles! or Skidbursts!
Now you know.
posted by BrodieShadeTree at 3:41 PM on December 5, 2006


I remain unconvinced (also pissed and slightly baffled), but it's your site. What you don't like, goes (away). Selah.

Hat: Matt's all right, Jess is all right, they just seem a little weird....
posted by jonmc at 3:42 PM on December 5, 2006 [1 favorite]


*surrenders*
posted by languagehat at 3:45 PM on December 5, 2006 [1 favorite]


Hey, don't give yourself away.
posted by jonmc at 3:48 PM on December 5, 2006


the meme police, they live inside my head...
posted by quonsar at 3:54 PM on December 5, 2006


gonna raise hell, gonna raise hell
posted by pyramid termite at 4:06 PM on December 5, 2006


newsFilter: 2006.12.05 1000 hours, metafilter.com acquired by yahoo video. massive posts to youtube no longer viable within binding legal framework.
posted by localhuman at 4:07 PM on December 5, 2006


Quentin Tarantino says there are two types of people: Elvis people and Beatles people. Elvis people can like the Beatles, and vice versa. But in life, you're one or the other.

posted by Blazecock Pileon at 2:15 PM EST on December 5


I respectfully disagree (with Tarantino). You're either an Ernie or a Bert. I am most emphatically an Ernie.
posted by ersatzkat at 4:15 PM on December 5, 2006


newsfilter: correction 2006.12.05 1005 hours, metafilter.com not acquired by yahoo video, but by rush limbaugh and ann coulter partnership ... most members push keyboards through temples in a bloody mass suicide
posted by pyramid termite at 4:17 PM on December 5, 2006


This discussion reminds me of eat like snake.

Oh, wait, no it doesn't.
posted by Meatbomb at 4:29 PM on December 5, 2006 [1 favorite]


y2karl's latest was crap. I mean, the clips of Americana stuff that's relatively rare makes for good youtubefilter. But links found through searching the arcane mysteries of "Presley, Elvis" and "Cash, Johnny"? Lame.
posted by bardic at 4:54 PM on December 5, 2006


Saw the links... scanned the titles... said to myself, "meh", and moved on. That said, I disagree with this deletion.

I disagree with it so much, I'm gonna start my OWN website! With gambling! And hookers! In fact, forget the website!
posted by evilcolonel at 5:24 PM on December 5, 2006 [1 favorite]


Jesus, Karl, GYOBFW (so I can go there and read it).

On the one hand, I do really like a lot of this stuff, but I understand where Matt's coming from. It becomes less of a community and more of the y2karl show to have all of these things in dump after dump. And I understand the desire to share the really cool, and I like seeing a lot of these things, but I also totally understand the vid-overload feeling. Also, being honest, the connective tissue was kinda thin. When you've done longer bits on people and included video before, that's had the feeling of more of a real, substantial post.

So yeah, in the end, I support this deletion. Pick through some of it, put together a real post. Filter even more, and then let the inside of the thread explode.

But I'm also an advocate for inconsistent moderation, because I believe that by dealing with probabilities and risk, people become more canny with their posting/choices.
posted by klangklangston at 6:38 PM on December 5, 2006


"Occupation: Blog Consultant"

That sounds like the most pretentious, vapid, sack-of-shit job one could make up. That it really exists just further destroys my belief in a just world.

"Quentin Tarantino says there are two types of people: Elvis people and Beatles people. Elvis people can like the Beatles, and vice versa. But in life, you're one or the other."

I hate Elvis AND the Beatles. Fuck the Stones, too. And fuck Tarantino for forgetting there are people outside his culture and his generation. But what does he care? He puts movies together around a soundtrack aimed at nostalgia junkies who claim today's scene is crap but refuse to do anything about it. Their his market, so he's free to make marks dismissive to anyone outside his aging niche. Just to be sure, he packs in plenty of F-bombs to keep the teenage crowd shelling out the $12 to see his latest "Samuel L. Jackson Does Something and We [Motherfucking] Film It." (only three f-bombs in this paragraph; is there an award for hypocrites that I can win? Like a 'Hippy' or something?)

karl: When you start your own youtube-harvest website, please post it to projects. I think it would be a great compromise and you'd have the best of both worlds; people who like what you have to offer would heap praise, and those who dissent would not likely seek you out just to complain. With the miracle of RSS, you don't even need to keep a regular update schedule; you can sort of just post things as you find them. I hope this experience doesn't leave a bad taste in your mouth; rather that it provides you with encouragement to persevere, even if through different avenues. And hey, if you need help setting up your own blahg, you can contact MetaFilter's own camworld, blog consultant extraordinaire.
posted by Eideteker at 6:41 PM on December 5, 2006 [1 favorite]


Oh Jesus Htapdancing† Christ... their = they're.

*prepares to Yakuza-punish his typoing hand for failing him*

†Betcha didn't know the H stood for an aspirated T sound.
posted by Eideteker at 6:45 PM on December 5, 2006


"Occupation: Blog Consultant"

It's also the worst video game ever.
posted by klangklangston at 6:49 PM on December 5, 2006 [1 favorite]


Wait; they don't have lime Starburst any more?
posted by yhbc at 6:52 PM on December 5, 2006


It's also the worst video game ever.

The DS treatment is pretty good, actually.
posted by cortex at 6:59 PM on December 5, 2006


I'm stuck on the Moveable Type plugins level.
posted by klangklangston at 7:02 PM on December 5, 2006


"Occupation: Blog Consultant"

That sounds like the most pretentious, vapid, sack-of-shit job one could make up. That it really exists just further destroys my belief in a just world.


Don't get me started about Assistant Blog Consultants. They're truly a bunch of assholes.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 7:03 PM on December 5, 2006


Don't get me started about Assistant Blog Consultants. They're truly a bunch of assholes.

Are they hiring?
posted by jonmc at 7:04 PM on December 5, 2006


Only interns.
posted by klangklangston at 7:04 PM on December 5, 2006


Oh, not interning again. Not after Clinton.
posted by jonmc at 7:07 PM on December 5, 2006


Pages are the new interns.
posted by wendell at 7:18 PM on December 5, 2006


And elevator operators are the new pages. Get with it, wendell.
posted by jonmc at 7:20 PM on December 5, 2006


Has anyone done a Paige Turner on youtube tribute post yet?
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 7:22 PM on December 5, 2006


wait.... who's a blog consultant? i'm drunk
posted by localhuman at 8:04 PM on December 5, 2006


What EarBucket and languagehat and petsounds said.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 8:43 PM on December 5, 2006


7. People think that a bunch of people on the internet can somehow give them better legal advice than their lawyer.
posted by Meatbomb at 9:09 PM on December 5, 2006 [1 favorite]


As youtube posts go, this one was frankly fabulous, head and shoulders over 95% of the ones that show up on the front page. It was a clearly labeled, topic-specific collection of clips assembled by someone who's known for putting a lot of thought into his posts. Of the 20 youtube FPPs I see today, this is the one I'm going to actually click some of the links.
posted by ikkyu2 at 9:20 PM on December 5, 2006


If someone is unfamiliar with Elvis Presley and Johnny Cash, they have no legs to stand on when it comes to praising y2karl's post for their musical insight. Because they simply don't know anything about American popular music to begin with.

So I really miss y2karl's Iraq posts (now more than ever, as we enter the Fall of Saigon phase) and have come to think his youtube ones don't deserve to take up space on the front-page.
posted by bardic at 9:34 PM on December 5, 2006


Quentin Tarantino says there are two types of people: Elvis people and Beatles people. Elvis people can like the Beatles, and vice versa. But in life, you're one or the other.

A load of shit from a man who knows nothing about music, to the point where he was once quoted as saying that "no one really likes" The Who. Much like his movies, his opinions seem to be a bunch of random pop culture references smashed together without regard for coherence or merit of any kind.
posted by drjimmy11 at 9:35 PM on December 5, 2006


*y2karl's posts
posted by bardic at 9:36 PM on December 5, 2006


I support this and all deletions--oh wait, no I don't. I am a total Matt suck up, a shameless gladhander, a sycophantic admirer of our supreme ruler. But I have to agree that this deletion was in error. Man, who will I worship now?
posted by LarryC at 9:49 PM on December 5, 2006


And we gave jonmc a pass because he was probably drunk and it was a one-time thing to a so-so music video late at night.

Late at night for some onthe US west coast is prime time for others around here.
posted by Pollomacho at 9:50 PM on December 5, 2006


If someone is unfamiliar with Elvis Presley and Johnny Cash, they have no legs to stand on when it comes to praising y2karl's post for their musical insight.

With this one I was trying to present a context and acknowledge the canon while mixing the archetypal and the obscure. Without spending too much time about it. The post began with finding the Johnny Cash clip, where the song, when eventually sung, was Heartbreak Hotel. It was new to me. So, what better then to begin with a contemporary rendition of the same by the originator for the compare and contrast ? The rest was a mix between standards by the primary creators of the genre at their prime and in their time, and obscure titles by the lesser known. Some I may have actually seen in real time. Most of them I had never seen before. I tried to give a choice. No one has to click on every link. If you have a short time or attention span, you can always come back. Or not.

These were seen and presented as historical documents of very young men, for the most part, in the process of inventing a sound and style. To my mind, anything old has to be heard at some point as it was to the ears that heard it first to truly appreciate it. You have to dive beneath all the flotsam and jetsam of everything that's hapened since and try to hear it as new. Those clips were from when it was all new.

But to hear them as new again is to remind me of all the time that has passed in my life and how much or little is left. I remember that time, so these are the moments lost in time, like tears in rain for me. Remembered but lost in time like ghosts. And to see how impossibly young and skinny Johnny Cash is in that first one, when he's goofing off--it's heartbreaking to see him. It's not one I had ever seen before. And it's the same for the rest of those clips for me save two. I remember when that stuff was new but I don't remember those. But the time I do remember, however dimly.

I really don't think I know that much about anything. I just know a little about some things. I don't want to do this every day. I don't want to be a person who posts playlists of look in awe all the fucking music I have listened to because I haven't listened to all that much. For me, this was more about the craft, about making a presentation, about making a coherent structure, about playing around with a format. And finding out about stuff. So much of what I post is new to me and always interesting at the time to me. I'd never seen the Collins Kids before. Heard them once or twice but never seen them.

No matter what interests me, what I post is always going to be for a niche market, no matter what it is. And it wasn't like I was going to keep doing these sort of posts. I only have so much time in my life, so much time left in my life, that I don't want to spend any more of it making these things than I do. I counted 39 posts for the last six months. 39 posts in six months is more than some but less than others. It's also somewhere between once or twice a week. Or two or three times a week every so often. I do tend to post in streaks. This was one. And it was over. So, this was not only arbitrary but pointless.

I am so sick of the get a blog advice. I don't want to discuss my personal relationships in front of strangers or record every passing brain fart. I like to play around making these involved little posts every now and then on whatever interests or matters to me but that's it. The interest and time I have for it is not enough for a blog to my mind. And I do like to get outside and listen to the birds and the traffic. I don't want a blog because I don't want to post in any more volume than I do or be online any more than I am. I am not posting too much and I am not breaking MetaFilter.
posted by y2karl at 12:04 AM on December 6, 2006 [2 favorites]


posted by Pollomacho: Late at night for some on the US west coast is prime time for others around here.


Yeah, Pollomacho, I was wondering if anyone else caught that... talking about late at night on the internet? Pretty funny.

And this place is gonna be less interesting without y2karl's excellent music reference posts. I'll miss 'em.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 2:09 AM on December 6, 2006


y2karl, just to let you know that you are one of the artists that I love. When I am scrolling through the blue and I see one of your posts - be it on culture or politics - I smile and get that little, wonderful shock of recognition as soon as I read the first few lines. Please don't take your contributions away from here - they are an important part of defining the intellectual and artistic tone around here.
posted by By The Grace of God at 2:31 AM on December 6, 2006


Self-policing. Heh. One of the more annoying perjuries of changing times.

But since y2karl, over the years, has seldom made much of a contribution to MetaFilter, seldom tried harder than a single-sermon Sunday, seldom earned an inundation of praise from the mighty Haughty [sic], I can accept his undignified yanking, out of his seat and out of his skin, for we are all, after all, valued only to the level of dole, fickle dole, and subject to vain, quicksilver moderation, moderation moderating, as it were, according to an inscrutable set of rules, a furiously rearranging set of patterns, warp and woof-woof-woofing into a feral knit of brow and brain, which though skull-framed by a lantern jaw, is not lantern-lit, but instead and in the dark, fusses under the dirt, out of sight, unknowable, until rising up to bite someone, in the ass usually, and sometimes, it seems, just to taste ass.

(Realize, of course, that I'm just having fun here (mainly & mostly) and am not suffering from Stavros' new and surprising abstinence.)
posted by Opus Dark at 2:44 AM on December 6, 2006 [1 favorite]


Post taste's good.
posted by flabdablet at 4:50 AM on December 6, 2006


Once again proving that no one reads my comments:

"I don't want a blog because I don't want to post in any more volume than I do or be online any more than I am."

"With the miracle of RSS, you don't even need to keep a regular update schedule; you can sort of just post things as you find them."

The problem here is that y2karl doesn't understand the nature of a weblog/journal or how little goes into one. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO UPDATE A BLOG DAILY. Mother Nature will not kill a kitten if you just update once in a while. The people that are killing America are the ones who post day-in, day-out, whether or not they have anything to say. Having a site of your own is as simple as posting to MeFi, only you go to a different URL to do it. You already post to MeFi, so I don't see what the problem is. There are blogs that only post music links; there's no need to also divulge the everyday details of your life. And for fuck's sake, people have already said they'll read it; that's the hardest part of getting any site running. So either you're generally naive about the whole thing, and completely uniformed; or you're just making stupid excuses. Given the amount of time you've been on the internets, I sincerely doubt the former. Your preconceptions about blogging make you sound like a fifty-something housewife from DesMoines who's had WebTV for about a month and a half.

I dunno, it's your life, but I guess I'm just disappointed that you'd rather remain passive-aggressively whiny about this rather than just fucking doing something about it.
posted by Eideteker at 4:54 AM on December 6, 2006


Metafilter: passive-aggressively whiny
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:59 AM on December 6, 2006


Your preconceptions about blogging make you sound like a fifty-something housewife from DesMoines who's had WebTV for about a month and a half.

we could probably stand a few of those around here ... it might chill things out a little
posted by pyramid termite at 5:07 AM on December 6, 2006


we could probably stand a few of those around here ... it might chill things out a little

I agree, pyramid, but would they really need to be from DesMoines?
posted by flapjax at midnite at 5:11 AM on December 6, 2006


I am so sick of the get a blog advice. I don't want to discuss my personal relationships in front of strangers or record every passing brain fart. ... I don't want a blog because I don't want to post in any more volume than I do or be online any more than I am.

What are you talking about? Nobody suggested that you post different stuff, or more often. In fact, they're suggesting that you post exactly the same stuff, exactly as often as you do — except, put it somewhere else.
posted by cribcage at 5:44 AM on December 6, 2006


Once again proving that no one reads my comments...

Get your own blog if you want everyone to pay attention to every eight-inch paragraph you throw together. Or be pithy.

To y2karl: I've always enjoyed all of your posts, even the odd formatting in which they're usually wrapped. I'm your faithful reader wherever you choose to post. Cheers!
posted by carsonb at 5:44 AM on December 6, 2006


those who dissent would not likely seek you out just to complain.

Bullshit. For reasons known only to themselves, some people really, really can't stand y2karl and all his works, and if you don't think MeFites are capable of going to the blog of some guy they don't like and leaving turds, you haven't been around here long.

I hope this experience doesn't leave a bad taste in your mouth

Why the hell wouldn't it? It's left a bad taste in mine, and it wasn't even my post.

The problem here is that y2karl doesn't understand the nature of a weblog/journal

No, the problem is that some of you can't grasp that the man doesn't want to keep a blog. Most people don't, believe it or not. I know people who would make terrific bloggers, and I've tried to talk them into it, but they don't want to do it, and that's their choice.

Look, you y2karl-haters have won again, thanks to a campaign of flagging and intimidation—Matt's willing to go to the mat (heh) for good old drunken jonmc, but he clearly doesn't appreciate y2karl's contributions and is happy to toss him to the ravening wolves. You won. So lay off and go celebrate in a bar, why don't you? It's unseemly to continue ragging on him. "Get your own blog" is a cliche so tired it should be put to bed and left alone.
posted by languagehat at 6:13 AM on December 6, 2006


Matt's willing to go to the mat (heh) for good old drunken jonmc, but he clearly doesn't appreciate y2karl's contributions and is happy to toss him to the ravening wolves

Hey, karl. I'm on your side. I really liked the youtube posts.
posted by jonmc at 6:25 AM on December 6, 2006


(I mean hat)

(I mean, I'm telling hat that I liked karl's posts. not that I liked karl's hat. I don't even know if karl has a hat)
posted by jonmc at 6:26 AM on December 6, 2006


No offense to you, jon my man. I trust you know I'm using your post as an example only because it was already linked with this and Matt addressed them together, and I trust also that now that you've sobered up you no longer consider a post to a YouTube of a Cheap Trick concert the Best of the Web, or even if you do you can understand why others don't.
posted by languagehat at 6:29 AM on December 6, 2006


(Wrote that before seeing your second post. Now I'm all confused.)
posted by languagehat at 6:29 AM on December 6, 2006


(And I want to know if karl has a hat.)
posted by languagehat at 6:30 AM on December 6, 2006


y2karl, I've defended your posts on multiple occasions. And actually, that doesn't really matter so much as to say that if you don't see the difference between this one and say, this one, you're being intentionally obtuse (although they both take up far too much space on the front-page IMO).

To play the hand-glued-to-forehead card here is frankly beneath you. And I certainly haven't told you to get a blog as many others have. Again, I'll come back to my initial reaction -- "tedious." Maybe I'm just lucky to have had an older sibling who turned me on to rockabilly when rockabilly wasn't cool, but there wasn't much there to justify an FPP. It starts with links to Elvis and Johnny Cash. And no context. Sorry, but that's just not interesting, nor even hard-to-find (although I liked your Americana post, but kind of felt this coming with your "underground music" post. Whose "underground"? New Marble Giants -- awesome. But really, what's the contextual link between them and Jonathan Richman, whom I also like? Neither of them has a platinum record? Sorry, but that's just sloppy and I think you know it.)

But now it's time for further personality contests, so I'll depart gracelessly.

Reverend Horton Heat -- "Psychobilly Freakout!"
Reverend Horton Heat -- "Bales of Cocaine" (live)
The Cramps -- Like a Bad Girl Should
posted by bardic at 6:34 AM on December 6, 2006


So either you're generally naive about the whole thing, and completely uniformed; or you're just making stupid excuses.

Christ, what an asshole.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 6:35 AM on December 6, 2006


It's unseemly to continue ragging on him. "Get your own blog" is a cliche so tired it should be put to bed and left alone.

I don't get the tone of that comment. If Matt were to ditch these best-of-the-day/month contests and do a lifetime achievement one instead, I'd vote for y2karl over anyone else. But this is just a deleted thread were talking about here. The advice to most people who have a thread dropped is to think about the reasons and to not whine about it. I don't see why this case is any different.

Most of the people advocating that y2karl get his own blog seem sincerely interested in reading it, and his last comment does reflect a pretty narrow view of what a blog is. Calling people who reacted to that comment or who are encouraging him to blog "haters" is simply inaccurate in my reading of their comments.
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 6:38 AM on December 6, 2006


languagehat writes Look, you y2karl-haters have won again, thanks to a campaign of flagging and intimidation

Oh fuck me with a dull spoon languagehat. If I did a "Punk Rock" FPP with fun but hardly unique links to a Clash, Ramones, and Sex Pistols vids I have a hard time believing you'd muster the same fake outrage.

And jonmc and me are on swell terms as of late, for which I'm happy, but his post deserved the DEL key as well. You'd happily ridicule an unknown linker for it.

(But you know what's good? This is really good --

Cap'n Jazz -- "Take On Me")
posted by bardic at 6:42 AM on December 6, 2006


I trust also that now that you've sobered up you no longer consider a post to a YouTube of a Cheap Trick concert the Best of the Web, or even if you do you can understand why others don't.

Yeah, but it worked out OK anyway, I guess. And karl's should've stayed up, imo.

hat, i wrote my initial comment thinking you were karl. it was precaffiene.
posted by jonmc at 6:47 AM on December 6, 2006


that *is* great, bardic.
posted by By The Grace of God at 6:50 AM on December 6, 2006


his post deserved the DEL key as well.

See, I agree that it wasn't up to the exceedingly high standards of his earlier posts, but does that really equal "deserves to be deleted"? I'm not saying it was the greatest post ever, just that deleting it while making a point of leaving jonmc's up because hey, he was drunk, is bullshit. I don't think Matt appreciates what y2karl contributes here.

Oh fuck me with a dull spoon

If you insist.

*rummages for dull spoon*
posted by languagehat at 7:34 AM on December 6, 2006


But why a spoon?
posted by cortex at 7:40 AM on December 6, 2006


What are you, Guy of Ginsborne? Michael Wincott?
posted by klangklangston at 7:57 AM on December 6, 2006


For reasons known only to themselves, some people really, really can't stand y2karl and all his works, and if you don't think MeFites are capable of going to the blog of some guy they don't like and leaving turds, you haven't been around here long.
posted by languagehat at 8:13 AM CST on December 6


languagehat, I think you are a dead-on about this, and that is sad. I have never been able to grasp why people cannot separate their view of content with a username. People develop grudges against usernames and go on a personality-jihad. But one thing that my experience has taught me here is that there are some people who are so completely obsessive and disgustingly vindictive that harassing the blog of a user would be a minor example.

It shouldn't be that way. I like a lot of what y2karl posts. There is a good amount of what he posts which I don't think is of good quality. If I were to identify the difference between the two, I would guess that I tend to like the posts where he is sharing things and dislike the posts where he is lecturing at us. I say this to make a point: though I may truly despise his posts where he feels the need to lecture at us, I don't see why that would necessitate an opinion on the person who makes the posts...the person behind y2karl.

Why people do this, I don't know. But it is a sad and negative thing for Mefi. I really wish people would get more enjoyment out of content and taking a critical view at that content and its place on the site instead of who is making the post.

But while I agree there may be some people who have a personality dislike for y2karl, I disagree with you here:

Look, you y2karl-haters have won again, thanks to a campaign of flagging and intimidation... So lay off and go celebrate in a bar, why don't you? It's unseemly to continue ragging on him.

That you might have flagged it or understand the deletion does not mean you are a "y2karl-hater" and want to "intimidate" him.

I would keep y2karl around because of the good stuff. And I would advise him of what I dislike about the bad stuff. That doesn't mean I hate y2karl. Nor does it mean I am trying to "intimidate" him unless intimidate is to mean offer any form of criticism.

It appears to me that the only reason this thread continues is that y2karl is fighting against it. I don't get the sense anyone is gloating about it. I read this thread as people trying to explain to y2karl why that post would be deleted and him not accepting that explanation.

____________

With respect to the particular post in question, I am ambivalent about its deletion. While it is better than many posts that appear here, if I held it to a y2karl standard, I think it is deficient (although that would be unfair to delete it because of that solely). His Stardust post from a while back was a tremendous music post. This one, not so much. It really has the feel of a youtube search result for "rockabilly" with no narrative linking them. That is why I joked in the other thread that it would be efficient to convey the same material by posting the search results page. Of course that is not true because there is some harvesting going on, but I can totally see the next few posts and could make them myself with a youtube search: 'celtic folk music,' 'Mississippi blues men,' or something similar.

I liked the post more than a lot which survives on the blue, but I think y2karl can do better (e.g. the Stardust post). Posting a similarly structured post so soon after the other two just seems rather weak and should be discouraged. So I can support Matt in his deletion, and I would have supported him not deleting it.
posted by dios at 7:58 AM on December 6, 2006


I don't think Matt appreciates what y2karl contributes here.

languagehat: is it possible to appreciate a good portion of what he contributes and also dislike a good portion of what he contributes... especially when y2karl has been very hard-headed in the past about making posts on subjects he has been asked to stay away from and in a style that he has been asked to alter?
posted by dios at 8:02 AM on December 6, 2006


is it possible to appreciate a good portion of what he contributes and also dislike a good portion of what he contributes

Of course. I'm simply saying it's my sense, from years of observing Matt's reactions here, that while he understands that y2karl posts some good stuff, he doesn't really take pleasure in it, not the way he takes pleasure in cool geeky stuff—he doesn't like the political posts at all, and he quickly gets bored with the music posts (I wonder if he even clicked on one of the YouTube links). Me, on the other hand, if I could save only one poster's contributions from the Wreck of the MetaFilter, it would be y2karl's; even his lesser posts are better than 90% of the rest of the front page (and to approve of a post being deleted because it's not up to his usual standards, even if it's better than most posts, is bizarre to me). But it's not my site. I'm just expressing my opinion.
posted by languagehat at 8:13 AM on December 6, 2006


I don't think Matt appreciates what y2karl contributes here.

I think we do appreciate what y2karl contributes. There are a lot of people who fiercely love and defend his posts. However, as dios says above, the whole y2karl Experience on MetaFilter includes the awesome posts people love, but also the huge blocks of text and lengthy title tags on the front page that people dislike, the railing at other users in Metatalk (yes many people do that, one of them is y2karl), the fussiness about any changes being made to his posts, tags or titles, and the defensiveness and sarcasm that he brings with him to MetaTalk when his posts make it into MetaTalk. From an admin perspective, this stuff matters as well as the awesomeness of his posts.

We have a lot of people who write awesome posts who do have their own blogs, who don't get ornery in MetaTalk, who genuinely seem to want to make posts that people like, not just some people but most of the people. y2karl has been in MetaTalk enough times that he knows a few things that he could do that would make his posts more palatable to the larger community -- he may have been doing some of them and he hasn't been doing others. I'm not saying everyone's got to get into some sort of best practices lock step arrangement here, but there is a cost involved to being a community member that only caters towards part of the community and ignores or fights with other members of the community. There are a lot of people who do that here and it works out moderately okay for most of them, but when you get to the point that both Matt and I are on your scorn and disdain list it just makes your time here a bit more of an uphill battle.

The fact that a large number of people think y2karl's posts are totally awesome does not discount the fact that there are also a lot of people (more? fewer?) who don't.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:34 AM on December 6, 2006


What are you, Guy of Ginsborne?

This being the porn version, it's actually Ginsbuns. The Friar's name you can figure out on your own.
posted by cortex at 8:35 AM on December 6, 2006


the Wreck of the MetaFilter

The legend lives on from Fark on down
Of the big blog they call Boingy Boingy
The site, it is said, will fuck with your head
till your skull it is moist and sproingy

With users to bore - 45600 members more
That Mefi's front page was empty
That good post and link could make a man think
When the deletion of y2karl came early

jonmc was drunk and his post it stunk
sprayed with beer from a store in Astoria
But for reason it stood, like proud morning wood
and became part of Mefi Historia

debating the terms wit cortex and l-hat
on the grey came the bitching and cant
quonsar could save us with a jpg
but no img tag no shitting elephant

cotex made a joke, klangston he rails
dios' comment was real long
it's telling how upset some people get
over a video of a fucking Cheap Trick song

Matt turned off the server, and pulled the plug
the geeks had to go elsewhere for shelter
youtube fallout and a meta callout
brought the wreck of the Ol' Metafilter
posted by jonmc at 8:38 AM on December 6, 2006 [6 favorites]


It's shameful that the post deletion is being twisted into being about completely unrelated aspects of y2karl's other posts, which are also of uniformly high quality, as far as Metafilter posts go — likewise for trying to make a connection between unrelated aspects of his online persona and the post. Truly a shame.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 8:54 AM on December 6, 2006


y2karl's problem is that he never seemed to realise that Iraq posts are bad PR for MeFi's business, because the dreaded "leftist" label does more harm than good to a site whose blue section is already a corollary to its truly successful section, ie AskMe.

Americans are essentially bored by Iraq, at best an uncomfortable topic for most -- Matt's "news blip" definition was very fitting. the general public doesn't care ("9-11 is the most horrible tragedy EVAR in the history of the universe" posts instead, of course, were always A-OK, because it's more comfortable to see one's own country as victim insted that as rogue state, but one does not want to digress)

the site's paying users want to know how to fix their computer or how to get a free amateurish diagnosis of their symptoms or how to give oral sex -- Iraq is a depressing distraction.

what's popular here, at this point, is a daily flow of methodically middlebrow, stolen-from-somewhere-else without attribution links, the more conventional the taste the better. it is quite fitting that anastasiav, very possibly this site's best poster who is still around, has gotten about one tenth of the favorites that our most relentlessly uninteresting poster has had. favorites -- and flags -- are the perfect tool to dumb down the site, and silence one's ideological enemies.

not to mention, y2karl was right about Iraq and doesn't like to bend over backwards to apologize, even insincerely, for it. no wonder people don't like him -- he's never kissed their asses, not even once, pretending that "we're all in this together" as a one big happy family.

I'm sure he's smart enough to realize that he should consider those cocksuckers' antipathy as a medal of honor.
posted by matteo at 9:02 AM on December 6, 2006 [2 favorites]


jonmc, that was pretty good, but please be careful. I would hate to have to declare a Canadian jihad on you for sullying the lyrics of the St. Lightfoot.
posted by GuyZero at 9:06 AM on December 6, 2006


matteo: Is your primary point that anti-Iraq war == anti-cocksucking?
posted by found missing at 9:15 AM on December 6, 2006


"it's telling how upset some people get
over a video of a fucking Cheap Trick song"


Posting History:
MetaFilter: 92 posts by jonmc and 11760 comments

And you don't understand that most people don't give a fuck about the video, the band or the song? That the reason they got pissed off is that you took a big shit on the front page and all you can say is "Yeah, but it worked out OK anyway, I guess."?

Pathetic.

And the y2karl haters need to think very carefully about what this site would look like if y2karl weren't here raising the bar for what constitutes a good post.
posted by thatwhichfalls at 9:16 AM on December 6, 2006


all you can say is "Yeah, but it worked out OK anyway, I guess."?

I admitted it was wrong and that karl's (who despite everybody propping us up as antagonistic, I'm rather fond of) post should've stood. What more do you want, hari-kari?

Pathetic.

You're the one working himself into a ball of rage about this and you're calling me pathetic. you're hilarious.

and besides, I was writing a song parody and needed a quick rhyme. Take a fucking pill.
posted by jonmc at 9:21 AM on December 6, 2006


one tenth of the favorites that our most relentlessly uninteresting poster has had

I get it matteo, you don't like me. No need to keep bringing it up over & over.
posted by jonson at 9:49 AM on December 6, 2006


the site's paying users want to know how to fix their computer or how to get a free amateurish diagnosis of their symptoms or how to give oral sex...

Matteo, advertisers are paying for this site, not users.

y2karl's problem is that he never seemed to realise that Iraq posts are bad PR for MeFi's business, because the dreaded "leftist" label does more harm than good to a site...

If Matt is not concerned to avoid "the dreaded 'leftist' label", which can indeed be a kiss of death with advertisers, he is not paying proper attention to the welfare of his family.

Leftist users' problem (this emphatically includes me), is that we never seem to realize who is paying the bill for the things we enjoy so much, and what that means for the nature of those things.
posted by jamjam at 10:29 AM on December 6, 2006


Please, friends, can we get back to the issue of karl's hat?
posted by dorisfromregopark at 10:36 AM on December 6, 2006


I imagine it is an excellent hat.
posted by cortex at 10:38 AM on December 6, 2006


I see it as Davy Crockett style coonskin cap, as would befit a pioneer.
posted by jonmc at 10:44 AM on December 6, 2006


Matteo, advertisers are paying for this site, not users.

You mean, other than the users that coughed up $5 to join?
posted by monju_bosatsu at 10:50 AM on December 6, 2006


"Americans are essentially bored by Iraq, at best an uncomfortable topic for most -- Matt's "news blip" definition was very fitting. the general public doesn't care ("9-11 is the most horrible tragedy EVAR in the history of the universe" posts instead, of course, were always A-OK, because it's more comfortable to see one's own country as victim insted that as rogue state, but one does not want to digress)"

Please, tell me more about America, paesano.

(The reason why I tend to be bored by Iraq posts is that I follow the news pretty closely already, and it's rare that y2karl posts an article that I haven't already seen or an analysis that is truly novel.) We know that things are going poorly, we care, we just had an election that was largely about being sick of the way things are going.

But the endless tirade from you over American politics and the equation of any criticism of your endless tirade with cocksucking make me wish you'd spend your time marching in white overalls rather than railing at the presumptive ignorance of your stereotype of Americans.

I mean, don't you have hair to grease, porn stars to elect, and the Pope to venerate? Essentially, that's all Italians care about, right?

Or, in simpler terms: Fuck off, Matteo. Your venomous screeds have not a goddamned thing to do with this, and neither does Iraq.

And to y2karl— You know, blogs aren't just for textual jennycams anymore, right? You know that there are great music blogs that even cover some of the same stuff that you love, and that your well-researched posts would be something that many people would love to read all on their own, and it wouldn't take more than ten extra minutes per post, right?
Sometimes it can feel like you're hogging the kareoke mike when you get into a spurt, but that wouldn't happen in a seperate blog. It would also give you more of a place to linkdump and filter out only the most compelling for MeFi.
And I'm not saying this because I hate you or your posts or have any lingering animosity toward you. I understand that you're unlikely to take this advice, but I hope that you can put away the weirdly defensive tone that you seem to have over it.
posted by klangklangston at 10:53 AM on December 6, 2006


The funny thing is that, out of the three posts, the rockabilly FPP was the one I enjoyed the most. But after all the clips in my first FPP were yanked by the copyright holder, I realized how short a shelf life YT links can have compared to links to text and even photo galleries; in six months, those posts could just be a batch of dead links.

I really don't see too much y2karl hating in this thread, either, so much as I see people using him and his FPPs to take potshots at one another. Too true, Blazecock.

And matteo, you're so full of shit.

Why is it that every time you make a MeTa comment regarding front page content, I get the feeling that you're less concerned with the site as a whole and instead mostly just venting because you don't think you and your contributions are appreciated enough here? The bitter and personal edge in your comments reeks of indignance and aggrievement.

Get over it - whatever the hell it is - and yourself.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 11:03 AM on December 6, 2006


You mean, other than the users that coughed up $5 to join?

According to my completely unscientific calculations (Brought to you by Texas Instruments!) and taking into account the approximately 15k members who got in for free, Matt's made less than half of the average American household's income from sign-ins per annum.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 11:22 AM on December 6, 2006


What Blazecock said.

jonmc: That was fun!

matteo: Give it a rest.
posted by languagehat at 11:44 AM on December 6, 2006


Matt's made less than half of the average American household's income from sign-ins per annum.

Well, sign-ups have been open for about 2 years, and there have been about 30K new users at 5 dollars a pop. My admittedly non-Texan instrumentation seems to calculate that at about 75K a year. I don't know whether that's more or less than advertisement revenue, but it ain't hay.
posted by team lowkey at 11:53 AM on December 6, 2006


Really, more like 75K * X, where X is some value between 0 and 1. Not all of those incremented user numbers will have lead to actual payment and activation. Only Matt (or a clever scraper) knows for sure.
posted by cortex at 11:57 AM on December 6, 2006


I was averaging out for every year that Metafilter has existed, which isn't really fair.

This is probably why I don't do my own taxes.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 12:09 PM on December 6, 2006


Everything has been said but imho this is a case of unfounded arbitrary moderation irrelevant to predefined guidelines (and therefore frustrating for a fellow user who has greatly contributed to make metafilter a place to lurk). However it's Matt's site so my protest will consists in marking y2karl's post as a favorite.
posted by nims at 1:39 PM on December 6, 2006


Well, I was out doing stuff and came back to see all this. I'm not really big on making pronouncements on what should or should not be posted, myself. As for the post, it was no big deal. I wasn't crazy about the snotty message for the deletion or everybody's drive by analysis but what can you do ? I wish I hadn't tried to explain anything. There is no point in it but sometimes it's hard to resist responding. I don't care that the post was deleted. I don't care that jon's post stayed up. I don't care about music blogs, I don't care about video blogs. I am not interested in unsolicited advice. This isn't AskMetaFilter. I didn't ask for it. Hence, I find it tiresome. I wish everybody would give it a rest.
posted by y2karl at 3:06 PM on December 6, 2006


Yes, but do you have a hat?
posted by cortex at 3:11 PM on December 6, 2006


Blazecock Pileon writes It's shameful that the post deletion is being twisted into being about completely unrelated aspects of y2karl's other posts, which are also of uniformly high quality, as far as Metafilter posts go — likewise for trying to make a connection between unrelated aspects of his online persona and the post. Truly a shame.

Seems to me the main "twisters" were y2karl himself and a loyal cadre that can't bring themselves to admit that youtube links to two of the most prominent musicians in American history are teh suck.
posted by bardic at 3:55 PM on December 6, 2006


Is this just somewhere we are suppose to weigh in then? I have never liked Search engine filter, or it's stillborn offspring, so I am on the side of this is good.
posted by thirteen at 4:06 PM on December 6, 2006


Is this just somewhere we are suppose to weigh in then?

No, you're supposed to have a long-standing grudge against another poster and then prance around looking for people to agree with your keen insights. And then matteo comes along and we unite in just how darn "civilized" we are when he points out the obvious.

But I really don't see what's wrong with askme making money. As long as Jessamyn is getting some of it.
posted by bardic at 4:22 PM on December 6, 2006


youtube links to two of the most prominent musicians in American history are teh suck.

Sheesh, Bardic, there were 21 links to other artists besides Elvis and Johnny Cash in y2karl's post. And several of those were fairly obscure. So is your argument, then, that no one should ever post links to anyone really famous?
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:36 PM on December 6, 2006


No, my argument all along was that it was a crap post, lacking context of any sort. I've engaged in youtubefilter myself, and I think the standard should be fairly high as to what constitutes "best of the web" material garnered from vid clips.

Actually, there was context -- a third drive-by youtube FPP from the same poster, with each becoming less interesting than the previous one.
posted by bardic at 4:39 PM on December 6, 2006


I like y2karl's hat very much.
posted by flabdablet at 4:54 PM on December 6, 2006


"What are you talking about? Nobody suggested that you post different stuff, or more often. In fact, they're suggesting that you post exactly the same stuff, exactly as often as you do — except, put it somewhere else."

Yes, exactly. How does this equate to y2karl hate? "Sorry, karl, that your post was deleted, but please start your own site where you can post whatever whenever and it won't be deleted unless you want it to be." Sure, it might be selfish to want the man to run his own blog, but that's hardly hate. Bad day at the office? Whip up a straw man to flog on MeTa! OMG EVRY1 H8S KARL!!1! No, we don't. You're imagining things, and you're hurting the discussion here by projecting your psychodrama on everyone else.

Whatever. Karl, you do what you want. I won't cheerlead someone who doesn't want it. I thought it was a good suggestion (and so did lots of people), but we're not you and the choice is ultimately yours. Heck if you wanted to start a collective music blog where you're only one contributor and you get to do as much absorbing as you do searching (well, more, because you're only a fraction of the input), I know that a dozen people would jump on board. But you don't want it, and that's fine. But don't get defensive at people who are offering you help. Even if it's unwanted, it's well meant and intentioned, so like an ugly Christmas sweater from a senile relative, you just smile and say thanks and quietly move on.
posted by Eideteker at 6:00 PM on December 6, 2006


flapjax at midnite : "Yeah, Pollomacho, I was wondering if anyone else caught that... talking about late at night on the internet? Pretty funny."

What gets less press, of course, is talking about things like "the weekend" on the internet. It always amazes my colleagues when I say "Yeah, the carrier in QNet isn't going to be able to investigate this problem on Friday, since it's the weekend. They'll work on it on Saturday, though, since that's a business day."

languagehat : "No, the problem is that some of you can't grasp that the man doesn't want to keep a blog."

Well, yes and no. Until now, when people have said "Get your own blog" in a non-mean sense (like "Get your own blog. You post interesting stuff, and I'd love to read it."), and y2karl said "I don't want to have a blog", I pretty much understood, like you. "It's cool, he doesn't have to have a blog if he doesn't want one". But in this thread, the reasons he's giving for not wanting a blog indicate that the problem may not be that he knows what's being suggested, but doesn't like the suggestion, as much as he's misinterpreting what's being suggested (reading "get your own blog" as "get your own E/N blog") and doesn't like that suggestion.

Like if a coworker says "I'm hungry, and have no time and little money, and want something quick, cheap, and greasy", and I say "Well, there's a McDonalds two minutes from here", and they answer "I don't want to eat at McDonalds", that makes total sense to me.

But then if someone else suggests McDonalds another time, and this time they answer "I don't want to eat at McDonalds. I hate haggis, and pretty much all other Scottish food", I might go on to explain that, despite the name, McDonalds is not actually Scottish, and it might fit the bill.

From what I can see, that's what's happening this time. It's not that people don't grok that he doesn't want a blog, but that from what they can tell, he's misunderstanding their suggestion, and rejecting the misunderstood suggestion.

matteo : "y2karl's problem is that he never seemed to realise that Iraq posts are bad PR for MeFi's business.

Americans are essentially bored by Iraq, at best an uncomfortable topic for most"


matteo's problem is that he never seemed to realise that the internet connects people in all kinds of countries, many of which, if Wikipedia can be trusted, are actually not in America! Implying "Metafilter's success depends on what Americans think about it" just reflects, at best, accidental dismissal of much of the world, and, at worst, the ugly self-centrism that gets America in trouble so often.
posted by Bugbread at 8:08 PM on December 6, 2006 [1 favorite]


And count me in with Eideteker: I've seen y2karl hate before on Mefi, but I'm seeing very, very little of it here. Hate for the post in question, yeah, I'm seeing. Hate for any sort of filtered YouTube posts, yeah, I'm seeing a little. Love for Y2karl's music posts? Seeing a lot of that. "GYOB" said in the format of "GYOB, I'd like to read it", yeah, there's a decent amount of that, too.

But "I hate y2karl"? Sure, there's a tiny bit, but it's vastly outnumbered by the viewpoints listed above.
posted by Bugbread at 8:12 PM on December 6, 2006


As for all this stuff about the haters--I just want to say I didn't say anything here about people hating me. I wish people would stop doing that on my behalf. All, the same, I do appreciate the sentiment of people who stuck up for me.

I pointed out a couple of times here that people liked the post that got deleted. Then I tried to explain what it was I was trying to do with the post. Which was pointless. Other than that, I have not really complained about that much here and I have not trashed anyone nor done any drive by mind reading nor run anyone down here. I am not fighting with anyone here or anywhere else.

Time and time again I have adjusted what I post, when I post and how much I post because I don't particularly want to annoy people. I was trying to please the most people and offend the fewest by posting on non-controversial topics the past few weeks. Regardless of what people thought of the posts, I was trying more to please people than offend them.

I don't want a blog as of this moment. If I do get one, I have my own ideas on what I want. I know I don't want a music blog or a video blog or a political blog. And if I do get one, I don't want to tell anyone here about it.
posted by y2karl at 8:30 PM on December 6, 2006


Well then you should just tell people you have one but you won't give out the url & they'll stop bugging you!
posted by jonson at 9:49 PM on December 6, 2006 [1 favorite]


Can I get the url? I won't tell the riffraff, I swear!
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:54 PM on December 6, 2006


matteo's problem is that he never seemed to realise that the internet connects people in all kinds of countries, many of which, if Wikipedia can be trusted, are actually not in America!

and matteo would be one of them. just so ya know.
posted by jonmc at 6:03 AM on December 7, 2006


"Well then you should just tell people you have one but you won't give out the url & they'll stop bugging you!"

Better yet, just tell 'em one of these, and they'll grudgingly follow it, waitinng for the good stuff.
posted by klangklangston at 6:54 AM on December 7, 2006


jonmc : "and matteo would be one of them. just so ya know."

I know. That's what boggles the mind. How can you not live in the US, and yet forget about the existence of everything outside the US?
posted by Bugbread at 2:50 PM on December 7, 2006


But why a spoon?

Because it's dull, you twit; it'll hurt more.
posted by carsonb at 8:20 PM on December 7, 2006


I truly believe the time has come for a resurgence of Prince of Thieves references. Costner's ears are burning.
posted by cortex at 9:38 PM on December 7, 2006


Everything I do, I do it for you.
posted by Pollomacho at 9:49 PM on December 7, 2006


"Fuck me. They cleared it."
posted by cgc373 at 11:01 PM on December 7, 2006


I have no strong feelings about y2karl's YouTube aggregations or his inclination to get or not to get his own [fucking] blog, but I do have strong feelings about following MetaTalk links to emptiness. Where's the hostility toward the post if nobody complains about it here? Snarking in-thread sucks, but it's easier than snarking here, which is one main reason there's a here here. So frickin' complain, people.
posted by cgc373 at 3:24 PM on December 21, 2006


Well, for reference, here are my posts for the year thus far.

Posts that are directly Iraq related* are small, posts containing any youtube link are italicized.

*Posts concerning Iran, Lebanon, American politics are not directly Iraq related.

The memory of love's refrain....
 44 comments   5 favorites
Disintegrating Iraqi Sovereignty
127 comments  0 favorites

A Social History of Cheerfulness
 10 comments  1 favorite
The Fourth Year of An Endless War Begins
108 comments  0 favorites

Defeat or a Widening War -- or Both?
 60 comments  0 favorites

Dishonor, Blood and Treasure - By The Numbers
110 comments  0 favorites

NSSM 40 and The Untold Story of Israel's Bomb
 83 comments  0 favorites
The Language of Noncombatant Death
 63 comments  6 favorites

Power Grab
 76 comments  3 favorites
Torture Doctors Without Borders
 59 comments  6 favorites
Rape, murder--it's just a shot away...
 76 comments  0 favorites

Iran: Consequences Of A War
 62 comments  4 favorites
account of American primitive guitar
 20 comments  5 favorites
Stabbed In The Back: The Birth of a Legend
 36 comments  3 favorites
Iraqi Death Toll Rises Above 100 Per Day
102 comments  2 favorites

Novels without words
 22 comments  3 favorites
Watching Lebanon by Seymour M. Hersh
 78 comments  0 favorites
Mindless In Iraq - What Next ?
 52 comments  2 favorites

Iran’s regional position is key to... strength
 21 comments  0 favorites
Pull My Finger aka President Petomane [only post of the year concerning George W. Bush]
 34 comments  1 favorite
y2karl's 78 RPM jukebox-o-rama
 48 comments 49 favorites
Gabriel Kolko... Another Century of War ?
 20 comments  2 favorites

Bob Dylan Annnotated and Tablaturated
 13 comments  6 favorites
A Find Of A Lifetime aka a historian’s dream
 20 comments 14 favorites
Who Are The Prisoners at Guantánamo...
 88 comments 10 favorites
y2karlTube - Simply Beautiful
73 comments 63 favorites

Torture 'R US[A]
 92 comments  1 favorite
Six Questions on the American 'Gulag'
 50 comments  3 favorites
Etta Baker 1913-2006
 19 comments  1 favorite
[Mississippi] John Smith Hurt: An Interview
 19 comments  7 favorites
folkstreams.net - ...Documentary Films
 14 comments 15 favorites
Martian Tire Tracks
 20 comments  9 favorites
Tail Fins Rising
 19 comments  1 favorite
...the written length of phatic interjectives
 22 comments  1 favorite
Psilocybin ...mystical-type experiences
 58 comments  4 favorites
Iraqi Death Rate May Top Our Civil War
 80 comments 12 favorites

Endgame
 60 comments  3 favorites

John Fahey at Rockpalast
19 comments 10 favorites
His fog, his amphetamines and his pearls
31 comments 1 favorite
Johnny [YouTube] 'Guitar' Watson
18 comments 10 favorites
Scenes from 'Withnail & I' on the YouTube
49 comments 16 favorites
Cult music on the YouTube

132 comments 70 favorites
The Gospel of YouTube
53 comments 67 favorites

Vintage Rockabilly on the YouTube [deleted]
29 comments 52 favorites
Mantis Head
  9 comments  2 favorites
Freeman Dyson, the destroyer of worlds
 24 comments  3 favorites
The Falsettos
29 comments 9 favorites

Regarding Paramount Records
 14 comments 11 favorites
Jazz Age Novelties
35 comments 14 favorites


There are 50 posts.
Viewed another way, that is 50 posts in 50 weeks.
That is, 50 posts out of a permissible 355, year to date.
That is, going by thread numbers, 50 posts out of a total of 9,246 posts so far this year.

18 posts are on non-political topics that contain no YouTube links whatsoever.
11 posts directly concern the war in Iraq.
10 posts on music contain YouTube links.
4 of those are primarily topic specific playlists. The rest contain a mix of YouTube and informative links.
4 posts concern American state sponsored torture, Guantánamo or the American secret prison system.
2 posts concern American politics.
2 posts concern Iran.
1 post concerns Israel.
1 post concerns Lebanon.
1 post concerns President Bush's love of fart jokes.

Make of it what you will.
posted by y2karl at 11:40 PM on December 21, 2006


Hey, now wait just a durned minute, there, y2karl. That's not complaining. That's useful information, which nobody asked for. People want blood, man. Only blood will satisfy.
posted by cgc373 at 2:36 AM on December 22, 2006


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