Sans quoi? March 10, 2008 5:30 AM   Subscribe

Is sansgras the new Kaycee?

netbros and Oriole Adams have started asking questions in her latest thread, and it does seem like something is off.
posted by heatherann to MetaFilter-Related at 5:30 AM (3647 comments total) 54 users marked this as a favorite

I think Oriole Adams is probably correct that we're dealing with this person, in which case closing the sangras account is probably in order.
posted by orange swan at 5:40 AM on March 10, 2008


Ugh. Ban with extreme prejudice.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 5:50 AM on March 10, 2008


May I just slip in a small word of encouragement to people to use links rather than pasting entire multipage articles (or entire song lyrics with every last repetition transcribed, etc) into threads? Please do. Thanks.
posted by Wolfdog at 5:51 AM on March 10, 2008


Could we ban everyone who posts long winded open-ended, over-dramatic relationship questions, fakepost or not?
posted by furiousxgeorge at 5:53 AM on March 10, 2008 [11 favorites]


No way, furiousxgeorge. Some of us like the vicarious drama. We don't all have stoned chihuahuas at home to liven things up.
posted by orange swan at 5:56 AM on March 10, 2008 [9 favorites]


Anyone that prompts responses like this has to be kept around:

Oh god, I didn't realise it was you, sansgras.
posted by smackfu at 5:59 AM on March 10, 2008


Whoa.

I like relationshipfilter questions, but this one smelled weird, so I stopped reading early on.
posted by rtha at 6:02 AM on March 10, 2008


No way, furiousxgeorge. Some of us like the vicarious drama. We don't all have stoned chihuahuas at home to liven things up.

Yeah, but my meth addicted WNBA player sex-addict girlfriend stole that dog when she dumped me and stole my kids and moved to Estonia.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 6:05 AM on March 10, 2008 [7 favorites]


Ditto, rtha. I couldn't put my finger on it, but the joints felt too loose somehow.
posted by tentacle at 6:07 AM on March 10, 2008


Yeah, but my meth addicted WNBA player sex-addict girlfriend stole that dog when she dumped me and stole my kids and moved to Estonia.

I don't know whether to admire your restraint for not posing a relationship/legal issues/health AskMe about that one, or urge you to do so immediately.
posted by orange swan at 6:10 AM on March 10, 2008



I don't know whether to admire your restraint for not posing a relationship/legal issues/health AskMe about that one, or urge you to do so immediately.


Well I don't want my wife to find out about the affair, I just told her I sent the kids to a private school in Europe.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 6:13 AM on March 10, 2008 [3 favorites]


Wouldn't it be more entertaining to flag accounts like this so that all their postings carried the disclaimer "NOTICE: This posting is a form of interactive fiction. You are welcome to participate, but the question is not being asked in earnest."

No? OK. Just a thought.
posted by adamrice at 6:14 AM on March 10, 2008 [20 favorites]


I like adam's idea. I am perverse, and revel in the uncomfortable, so take it with a grain of salt.
posted by Mister_A at 6:23 AM on March 10, 2008


Ditto, rtha. I couldn't put my finger on it, but the joints felt too loose somehow.
posted by tentacle


Eponysterical!

It's funny - I don't usually check someone's posting history unless they specifically reference it, and in this case, I reckon if I had checked it, the smell would've knocked me off my feet instead of just giving me a small headache.

I don't get people who pull this kind of shit.
posted by rtha at 6:23 AM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


Well, this is embarrassing. I guess I should read the posting history before trying to answer a question like that one again.
posted by rosebuddy at 6:30 AM on March 10, 2008


Now I'm curious and workplace blocks Encyclopedia Drammatica.
*shakes fist at websense*
posted by pointystick at 6:32 AM on March 10, 2008


Cortex? Jess? It's ok to spike your coffee this morning, we understand.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:34 AM on March 10, 2008


pointystick, an executive summary:
  • member of LiveJournal pro_ana community
  • claimed to be all of the following simultaneously: a doctor, married, pregnant with twins, a firefighter
  • had an LJ community created specifically to pray for her/wish her well
  • said she was going to Africa to work for Doctors Without Borders
  • organized a get-together for fellow pro_ana members and then didn't make reservations, plans, or even an appearance
    And now apparently she's here.
    posted by oaf at 6:38 AM on March 10, 2008 [4 favorites]


    Encyclopedia Dramatica is down at the moment anyway. But it's in the Google cache.
    posted by litlnemo at 6:39 AM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    You know, if that question were to be set to music, the song would have to be Why, by Annie Lennox.
    posted by orange swan at 6:39 AM on March 10, 2008 [2 favorites]


    Holy cow.
    posted by Miko at 6:39 AM on March 10, 2008


    Thanks, guys.
    Fishy indeed!
    posted by pointystick at 6:40 AM on March 10, 2008


    I guess I should read the posting history before trying to answer a question like that one again.

    No no no. See, there are those among us with spidey sense, or armies of winged monkeys, or impossible amounts of time, or all of the above. They are able to do the detective work for the rest of us and because of their vigilence you don't have to mistrust questions. Act and interact openly, but know that your every move may be picked over by a crack team of far-flung, minutia-obsessed nerds with long memories, and if you pee in our pool they will find you, and fuck you up.

    I am not one of these peacekeepers, but I stand in awe of them, and enjoy the freedoms that their sacrifice affords me.

    I'm serious.
    posted by dirtdirt at 6:43 AM on March 10, 2008 [24 favorites]


    The suspicions were mounting as her claims got wilder and wilder, and the shit finally hit the proverbial fan when she organized a get-together for her fellow pro-anas, and then neglected to make reservations, plans, or even show up, leaving a herd of dazed and angered anas stranded in the middle of Los Angeles.

    Is it just me, or is that last clause really damn funny?
    posted by orange swan at 6:43 AM on March 10, 2008 [15 favorites]


    Fascinating
    posted by Wilder at 6:46 AM on March 10, 2008


    Response from sansgras in original thread.

    I'm always torn with these. The stories are fantastic, but some people really do have messed up, drama-filled lives. How do we tell the difference between Kaycee and Britney if they're posting on AskMe?
    posted by heatherann at 6:47 AM on March 10, 2008


    For the record, I'm not convinced the post is fake. Could be, but I'll wait to hear what the mods say.
    posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:47 AM on March 10, 2008


    This boggles my mind. I addressed many of the issues here in my latest response in my last question, so I hope that clears things up.

    Regarding the sansgras issue-- Sansgras was a member on a well-known eating disorder support board. I did not join that board until after she did everything she did. I haven't read the links posted only because I remember reading them initially when they were created by users of the board I'm talking about. I know she claimed to be a doctor, to have lived in Africa, she also stood a bunch of the girls up in California. She was also in her 30s. I can vaguely recall her pictures.

    Sans gras = French for "without fat." I can't tell you how many times I've seen my username as a username on eating disorder support sites.

    As I mentioned in my response in my latest question, if I wasn't trying to be identifiable, why would I sign up under a username I was using elsewhere? I still haven't googled sansgras, but I really have no need to because I know none of those results are tied to me, considering I haven't used this username until now. I said that a few weeks ago when someone here asked me if Sansgras is my first name.
    posted by sansgras at 6:48 AM on March 10, 2008


    Additonally, I don't understand how I could be banned as a user. I've posted questions, people have answered. I haven't formed close ties with anyone as a means to manipulate them into giving me money or something. I've answered every question. Every suggestion that I am someone else is only speculation. I'm sorry my story is a mess (in terms of content), but that is the reason I came here in the first place. I was looking for objective advice. I hope I never have to ask another question.
    posted by sansgras at 6:51 AM on March 10, 2008


    I hope I never have to ask another question.

    So do we.
    posted by Optimus Chyme at 6:54 AM on March 10, 2008 [3 favorites]


    Well, this is embarrassing. I guess I should read the posting history before trying to answer a question like that one again.

    This is why I hate shit like this. This person's need to entertain her/himself has resulted in increasing the amount of cynicism about what one sees on the internet even more, and made it less likely that the commenter will want to participate in AskMe for fear that he or she is being tricked. We could make of the internet any type of world that we want, but instead we have turned it into the kind of place that made me feel the need to sit my mother down and give her a five minute warning about when I found out the she had joined a listserv.

    On preview: I hope that your denials are genuine, but you sound like you are lying. I have no way of knowing one way or the other, but people here do, and I look forward to their determination.
    posted by ND¢ at 6:56 AM on March 10, 2008 [2 favorites]


    I have no way of knowing one way or the other, but people here do, and I look forward to their determination.

    Huh? What methods could 'people here' use to determine if she was lying or not? At most, they could see if she was someone's sockpuppet. But if not, then what? Is Matt supposed to lookup her IP, hire a P.I. and have her followed to determine if her stories are real?

    Also, responding to your more general point, ND¢, an internet where honesty was mandatory would have to have some pretty extreme enforcement mechanisms. Yes, people lie and try to scam each other. It's annoying but it's better then having some central authority dictating controlling everything and dictating what is and is not 'true'. (I'm talking about the internet in general here, not Metafilter itself)
    posted by delmoi at 7:05 AM on March 10, 2008


    Very strange, for sure.
    posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:08 AM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Why would sansgrace join an eating disorder board under the same username as a notoriously repellent shit-monger and liar? Eh? She apparently knew the history of the name when she joined the mysterious board in question:

    I haven't read the links posted only because I remember reading them initially when they were created by users of the board I'm talking about.

    That sure sounds like, "I read those entries when they were first posted," which means that sansgrace claims to have deliberately joined under the same name, knowing it was the tag of a hated former member, but with the best of intentions. Either that or she/he/it is completely full of shit. By applying the principle known as Occam's razor, sansgrace is probably full of shit.
    posted by Mister_A at 7:09 AM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    I am not proposing an internet where honesty is enforced. I suppose I am talking about encouraging honesty through the culture. I suppose the internet is just too big for that.

    As for the some people can find out remark, I wasn't trying to sound ominous. It just seems like whenever there is a MeTa thread about who someone is that people seem to find out, and it has never in the past involved Matt hiring a P.I. I don't know how they do it, but they seem to do it.
    posted by ND¢ at 7:09 AM on March 10, 2008


    I guess that I am expressing my faith in the Mefi detective brigade. They have never let us down yet.

    Watch this be the first time. Stupid Mefi detectives, making me look like a jerk.
    posted by ND¢ at 7:13 AM on March 10, 2008 [2 favorites]


    We've got our pitchforks out, gotta use them.
    posted by smackfu at 7:14 AM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Oh man. I'm not sure what was more pathetic - the actual question in that thread or the fact that so many people posted 'dump the loser' in the face of a conjoining of two of the most potentially vapid, self-unaware twits to ever grace the face of the internet. It makes better comedy than reality but I think, unfortunately, it's probably a real person.
    posted by docpops at 7:15 AM on March 10, 2008 [5 favorites]


    It just seems like whenever there is a MeTa thread about who someone is that people seem to find out

    That's true, but sansgras has zero personal information in her profile, and the people who get outed are usually self-linkers who leave a trail of breadcrumbs across the internet in their quest for self-promotion.

    But here, there are no leads for the MeFi detective squad to follow, unless you assume that all sansgrases are the same person, in which case you could google the name and come up with all kinds of Drama, I'm sure.

    Now, I haven't actually read her questions, and perhaps they are really ridiculous, and maybe that's enough to ban her outright, I really have no idea how Matt would handle this.

    But I don't think anyone will actually be able to determine the veracity of her stories, beyond any superficial absurdity.
    posted by delmoi at 7:17 AM on March 10, 2008


    Why would we want the administrators to ban someone who adds to our enjoyment of the site? That is so backwards. If anything they should ban heatherann for trying to chase away our beloved sansgras!
    posted by 1 at 7:19 AM on March 10, 2008


    Is Matt supposed to lookup her IP, hire a P.I. and have her followed to determine if her stories are real?

    A MeFi P.I. would be the greatest thing ever. Better than Magnum even.

    The only question is, what kind of detective would the MeFi P.I. be? Would he be old-school like Sam Spade? A 70s throwback like Shaft? Perhaps a psychic female detective that has visions of MetaFilter evildoers. The possibilities are limitless.
    posted by burnmp3s at 7:20 AM on March 10, 2008 [2 favorites]


    I am thinking one P.I. just won't cut it. This demands a buddy cop team.
    posted by boubelium at 7:22 AM on March 10, 2008


    Oooh! Oooh! I want to be MeFi's Magnum PI! I'd live in a beach house, drive an expensive sports car, hang out with fun buddies, and be dating a different, hot man every episode. Then, in the last episode, I'd reveal that Matt Haughey is really Miguel Cardoso. Or should that be the other way around?
    posted by orange swan at 7:23 AM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Peter Falk.
    posted by Mister_A at 7:23 AM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    This makes no sense to me. Why in the world would you choose such a notorious username risking confusion? It's one thing if you randomly made it up and it's a strange coincidence, but you are apparently quite familiar their online history and yet you persist on using that name? That's just... weird.



    Orange swan:

    leaving a herd of dazed and angered anas stranded in the middle of Los Angeles.

    Is it just me, or is that last clause really damn funny?

    It's funny because it describes a typical Saturday night on Sunset blvd. ;)
    posted by like_neon at 7:24 AM on March 10, 2008


    ND¢, lets say honesty is encouraged in the internets, and it works. After a few months exposed to mostly honest people, I would drop my default attitude from highly skeptic to somewhat trusting. I guess most people would do the same. Then someone not familiar with the culture shows up, and starts lying. They could get away with anything.

    I welcome the occasional Kaycee immunization and the very frequent giveWell booster shots.
    posted by Dr. Curare at 7:25 AM on March 10, 2008 [2 favorites]


    A MeFi P.I. would be the greatest thing ever.

    Plus, sansgras would probably notice and start posting askmes about a spooky interloper watching her, following her, always on the edges of her perceptual periphery. And everyone will think she's even crazier*.

    (*note that crazyness is based on the comments here, not on ready her posts. Maybe they are reasonable, I don't know)
    posted by delmoi at 7:25 AM on March 10, 2008


    I know sansgras has claimed she doesn't want to talk about her personal information, but I'm asking everyone else:

    Are there many one-year Master's programs? I always thought they were standardly two years.
    posted by Ms. Saint at 7:26 AM on March 10, 2008


    Here's a one-year M.A. program.
    posted by oaf at 7:28 AM on March 10, 2008


    Are there many one-year Master's programs? I always thought they were standardly two years.

    I have a friend who got a masters in Human Computer Interaction at CMU in like 18 months.
    posted by delmoi at 7:28 AM on March 10, 2008


    Then someone not familiar with the culture shows up, and starts lying. They could get away with anything.

    But now the opposite happens. Everyone that is familiar with the culture of the internet knows to assume that someone is lying to them unless proven otherwise and then my poor sweet momma shows up and is mailing checks to Nigeria and forwarding e-mails so that Bill Gates will send her a dollar.

    Note: my momma did not do either of those things, but she is very sweet.
    posted by ND¢ at 7:29 AM on March 10, 2008


    Clearly one of the mods is up. A comment in the AskMe thread just got torpedoed.
    posted by oaf at 7:30 AM on March 10, 2008


    I was willing to give her the benefit of the doubt until she said she had heard of the pro-anorexia board (first I've heard of anything like that - thanks for that link!) and even knew of the previous sansgras drama over there. No way that's a coincidence.
    Also, the claims of early graduate dregrees and suchlike reminds me of un owen. Whatever happened to her?
    posted by CunningLinguist at 7:30 AM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    There are plenty of big time Universities that have one year MAs. It is usually in programs in which an MA gets you nowhere and everyone is there to continue on to the Ph. D.
    posted by boubelium at 7:32 AM on March 10, 2008


    It's kinda weird to pick the name of a much-reviled persona on one community when you join another one. Not sure there is a smoking gun though.
    posted by grouse at 7:33 AM on March 10, 2008


    Ms. Saint - Yes, there are such things as 1 year Master's programs
    posted by like_neon at 7:33 AM on March 10, 2008


    I chose the username because I like the meaning. I wouldn't expect people who don't frequent eating disorder message boards to know this, but I've seen sansgras as a username plenty of times. It didn't occur to me that people would think I am Beth for this reason. Even today when I see this username elsewhere, I don't automatically, unconsciously assume that person is Beth.

    I discovered MetaFilter through the message board I mentioned earlier, where I am identifiable, so I would imagine that if any of those users saw my questions or this thread, they would recognize who I am.

    I didn't think there was a risk of confusion because:

    1. The only thing Beth and I have in common is that we both have eating disorders and we were both a member of the same message board, although she was banned and gone a few years before I joined. I only know the story through reading about it elsewhere.

    2. I didn't expect that anyone would think that I'm so careless in my quest to be anonymous that I would accidentally choose the same username (assuming I am Beth), the same common French phrase that really isn't all that unique, after already knowing it's linked to so many things.
    posted by sansgras at 7:38 AM on March 10, 2008


    That question had one of the best parentheticals ever:

    (a lot of heavy kissing and touching, yet I was not allowed to touch his parts. He did not have an erection.)
    posted by mullacc at 7:41 AM on March 10, 2008


    Additonally, I don't understand how I could be banned as a user. I've posted questions, people have answered. I haven't formed close ties with anyone as a means to manipulate them into giving me money or something. I've answered every question. Every suggestion that I am someone else is only speculation. I'm sorry my story is a mess (in terms of content), but that is the reason I came here in the first place. I was looking for objective advice. I hope I never have to ask another question.

    Well, you saw the sansgras drama on the eating disorder forum. I linked to the Kaycee Nicole drama in my original post. There have been fake posters on Metafilter, and it pissed us off. We're a bit skittish about potentially being gamed again.

    If you're legit, AskMe should be a safe space for you to get objective advice, and I think that it has been until now. People in the situation you've described would do well to move out and become independent, seek therapy, DTMFA, etc. If you're not legit, you can understand why we would be peeved about wasting our time on fictional drama and therefore ban you. Right now we're not sure which situation we're dealing with.

    If you are legitimate, please bear with us as we try to sort it out.
    posted by heatherann at 7:41 AM on March 10, 2008


    The only reason I didn't mention the one year master's program, called an SMP, is because there are only a few of them around (15 or so?), and although I never mentioned my field specifically, I've mentioned other things I want to do professionally-speaking, so it's not difficult to put two and two together and figure out what I'm talking about. Again, with the not wanting to be identifiable.

    And if I was Beth, the integral part of her story is that she claims to be a doctor. I'm claiming to be 20, a former graduate student, not a doctor.
    posted by sansgras at 7:42 AM on March 10, 2008


    Here's a link to a list of one year M.S. programs in the U.S., geared toward people who are looking to kill time, increase GPA, etc. before medical school:

    http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=489913
    posted by sansgras at 7:46 AM on March 10, 2008


    This is all getting very Meta.
    posted by Bookhouse at 7:48 AM on March 10, 2008


    While this certainly does look suspicious, sansgras says above:

    Sans gras = French for "without fat." I can't tell you how many times I've seen my username as a username on eating disorder support sites.

    I have no idea whether the latter assertion is true, but if it is—if "sansgras" is a common username—then I'd say she gets the benefit of the doubt.

    Either way, I loved this "Amusing quote" from the Encyclopedia Dramatica article:
    Bethie,

    I tried to communicate with you telepathically. Pretty flakeyville, hunh? I just felt this strong compulsion when I guess I could have been sleeping but I figured I could sleep later, and I did. I hope you wake up soon. We miss you, tht's all. Take your time as you need, I told you, but I really miss you and flakeyville or not, I hope you felt/heard me last night. I keep lighting candles for you, sweetheart. I think of you every day, I really do. I heart you, big time. I'm going to write you a letter and maybe Chris could read it to you. Btw, that postage stamp on the letter you sent to me was so cute! I loved the teddy bear with the presents design of it. I didn't see any US stamps as cute or cool as that one. It's a keeper. :) xo Siobhan

    Current Mood: keeping the faith
    posted by languagehat at 7:48 AM on March 10, 2008


    I am sparatcus.
    posted by yhbc at 7:50 AM on March 10, 2008


    Omigod, a link! She must be legit. IF THAT URL GOES TO A LEGIT 1-YEAR MASTER'S PROGRAM THEN EVERYTHING SHE HAS SAID IS TRUE!!!11!!

    By the way, have you ever wondered what the A stands for?
    posted by Mister_A at 7:51 AM on March 10, 2008


    Wow. I loved your work in the 80s, Mister_A. (Oh, wait -- sorry, got confused.)
    posted by maudlin at 7:54 AM on March 10, 2008


    So Mister A, her and now!! Clear it all up for us? Are you going to jump in the race or not? Your country is calling you sir!!
    posted by pearlybob at 7:54 AM on March 10, 2008


    Grow up, Mister A.

    I posted that link to show that one year master's programs are in existence.

    I thought the A stood for asinine.
    posted by sansgras at 7:55 AM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    here and now!! damn no edit! Bah!
    posted by pearlybob at 7:55 AM on March 10, 2008


    I'm voting insane, but probably not a Kaycee. That is, not a sock puppet of the pro-ana Kaycee.

    Might be useful to try and get someone from the eating disorder drama to see if they can draw comparisons between the writing styles. Is that LJ still up somewhere?
    posted by Ragma at 7:56 AM on March 10, 2008


    sansgras, I would back away from this thread, if I were you. If you are who you say you are, nothing you say is going to convince some people otherwise, and if you aren't who you say you are, someone is going to find a smoking gun. Either way, nothing more to be done on your side.
    posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:58 AM on March 10, 2008 [2 favorites]


    You're a boring self-obsessed mouth breather, regardless of your age, education, gender, etc.
    posted by Mister_A at 7:58 AM on March 10, 2008


    "Grow up, Mister A."

    Coming from someone with your AskMe question history, I find this comment extremely odd.
    posted by Ragma at 7:58 AM on March 10, 2008


    Now would be a good time for everyone to take a smoke or chocolate break.
    posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:00 AM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    What is life but a series of one-year Master's programs?
    posted by mullacc at 8:00 AM on March 10, 2008 [18 favorites]


    I have lots of girl scout cookies. I'll share!
    posted by pearlybob at 8:01 AM on March 10, 2008


    Where are the grownups?
    posted by shothotbot at 8:04 AM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    I have the conch bitches!
    posted by Mister_A at 8:05 AM on March 10, 2008 [4 favorites]


    Anyone wanna kill a boar and make boar bacon cups?
    posted by furiousxgeorge at 8:06 AM on March 10, 2008


    Pig..er Pearlybob slowly puts down the thin mints. Backs away from the fire....
    posted by pearlybob at 8:07 AM on March 10, 2008


    I am thinking one P.I. just won't cut it. This demands a buddy cop team.

    She's a sexy and sassy librarian. He's a musician with multiple web projects. Together, they fight MeFi Crime.
    posted by never used baby shoes at 8:07 AM on March 10, 2008 [16 favorites]


    Cortex is a librarian?
    posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:09 AM on March 10, 2008 [2 favorites]


    Where are the grownups?

    Still deleting comments.
    posted by oaf at 8:10 AM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Grups don't help.
    posted by ND¢ at 8:11 AM on March 10, 2008 [2 favorites]


    Maybe I am jaded and cynical, maybe there has just been a terrible dearth of 20 year olds with an interesting combination of advanced degrees and a complete lack of common sense in my life, but quite honestly, sansgras, I have had some trouble believing in you since the second "My father is stalking me" thread. That was when I went through your askme history and went, "Huh." I mean, Doogie Howser went to med school early and still, he managed to figure out stuff like how to rent an apartment and date. I think. It's been a while.

    Perhaps all the trauma in your askme questions is true, in which case, sorry, although I don't quite get your total resistance to the perfectly good advice you've already gotten. December to February is not a lot of time, true, but perhaps it was enough to start the process of growing up and shedding the parental shackles as so many people so earnestly advised you to do. But then, what do I know? I had long since moved out, had a kid and was working on a divorce, a job and a degree at 20. That kid herself was working two jobs to pay for her own apartment and going to school full time at 20. Therefore, based on my own anecdotal evidence, hon, I would recommend that if you are for real, it's time to grow up. If you aren't for real, next time, don't repeat yourself two months apart like that.

    On preview, curses! The time for lengthy comments is past. Oh well.
    posted by mygothlaundry at 8:13 AM on March 10, 2008 [2 favorites]


    <ahem>
    Metafilter: I hope that your denials are genuine, but you sound like you are lying.
    posted by blue_beetle at 8:14 AM on March 10, 2008 [3 favorites]


    Well, this is a mess.

    Folks, if you could drop it with the one-liners in the askme, that'd be great. Remember those guidelines? They still exist. Thank you.

    sansgras, I'm one of the three moderators on the site. I have to admit I agree with a lot of the "this smells" sentiment folks are expressing in here, but I'm not going to write you off based solely on hunch and circumstance, and if you can provide some hard detail that verifies your story I'd be happy to see it.

    You've said you're hesitant to publicize details that would create a link between your identity here and elsewhere; if you'd drop me an email to help clear this up, I'm fine keeping the details private. My email is listed in my profile, here.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 8:15 AM on March 10, 2008


    Seconding TPS. This is no place for rational discourse, legitimate self-defense, etc.
    posted by not_on_display at 8:16 AM on March 10, 2008


    I know a 21 yo who talks exactly like this. So I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt.

    And also tell her to GROW THE HELL UP ALREADY and IF YOU REALLY ARE AN "OLD SOUL" START ACTING IT ALREADY AND GYOFB.
    posted by dw at 8:16 AM on March 10, 2008


    Doogie Howser went to med school early and still, he managed to figure out stuff like how to rent an apartment and date.

    Doogie Howser lived at home with his parents, who may or may not have been stalking him. Also, dating as a homosexual teenaged doctor was probably a complicated mess.
    posted by item at 8:19 AM on March 10, 2008 [9 favorites]


    Doogie Howser lived at home with his parents, who may or may not have been stalking him. Also, dating as a homosexual teenaged doctor was probably a complicated mess.

    There was, like, this one time? Where he finally got this date, with, like, this girl he really liked? And during the date she got, like, appendicitis? And he, like, had to take her to the hospital and operate on her? And he, like, totally had to ask if she was a virgin for, like, some medical reason? It was, like, totally awkward! Then he, like, went home and wrote about it in his journal. Totally a mess. That might be when he decided he was the ghey or something.
    posted by never used baby shoes at 8:23 AM on March 10, 2008 [2 favorites]


    ...Together, they fight MeFi Crime.

    I'd totally watch that.
    posted by Skorgu at 8:24 AM on March 10, 2008


    Does vaguely describing 80's TV shows pass for wit around here nowadays?
    posted by ND¢ at 8:24 AM on March 10, 2008 [2 favorites]


    Isn't that "teh ghey" ?
    posted by Mister_A at 8:24 AM on March 10, 2008


    Looking at Sansgras/Beth's Livejournal last night, I observed that she was claiming to be a 24-year-old M.D. who teaches at a university. This Sansgras is 20 either with or working on a master's degree. So I guess they're both child prodigies?

    Also, I've never heard of a forum which either technologically or by policy releases usernames of banned members for re-use.
    posted by loiseau at 8:25 AM on March 10, 2008 [2 favorites]


    Was that before or after he was Lee Harvey Oswald?
    posted by oaf at 8:25 AM on March 10, 2008


    Yes, that struck me as suspicious too, loiseau.
    posted by Mister_A at 8:27 AM on March 10, 2008


    "And if I was Beth, the integral part of her story is that she claims to be a doctor. I'm claiming to be 20, a former graduate student, not a doctor."

    You see, the claims, they are different! A doctor-firefighter-pregnant-mother would never claim to be something she's not!
    posted by klangklangston at 8:29 AM on March 10, 2008


    After he was Wallace Cleaver Den Beste and before he was Ron Paul Harvey Oswald
    posted by y2karl at 8:31 AM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    a master's degree

    In a field related to medicine, no less.
    posted by oaf at 8:32 AM on March 10, 2008


    I admit it: Sansgras is my sockpuppet!

    /isn't well-known enough to have a sockpuppet
    posted by shakespeherian at 8:33 AM on March 10, 2008


    Skinny people are beautiful AND smart. Duh.
    posted by The Bellman at 8:36 AM on March 10, 2008


    Can someone explain what this post means? I can't figure it out.
    posted by loiseau at 8:36 AM on March 10, 2008


    If any Mefi Detectives need a Sergeant Lewis or Troy, my number is in the book. I'll be happy to make incorrect assumptions while providing inspiration to your deductive reasoning.

    Barring that, if someone wants to team up and be the Herc to my Carver, we can bust some Mefi Heads the Western District Way.
    posted by robocop is bleeding at 8:36 AM on March 10, 2008 [2 favorites]


    "And if I was Beth, the integral part of her story is that she claims to be a doctor. I'm claiming to be 20, a former graduate student, not a doctor."

    Shouldn't that say "And if I was Beth, the integral part of her story is that she claims to be a doctor. I am 20, a former graduate student, not a doctor."

    ?
    posted by iconomy at 8:39 AM on March 10, 2008 [27 favorites]


    Oh man. I'm not sure what was more pathetic - the actual question in that thread or the fact that so many people posted 'dump the loser' in the face of a conjoining of two of the most potentially vapid, self-unaware twits to ever grace the face of the internet. It makes better comedy than reality but I think, unfortunately, it's probably a real person.
    posted by docpops at 10:15 AM on March 10


    LOL! No, actually, it's pretty dickish to characterize MeFites as "pathetic" for trying to provide some non-snarky advice.
    posted by desuetude at 8:40 AM on March 10, 2008


    leaving a herd of dazed and angered anas stranded in the middle of Los Angeles.

    The dazed herd -- feeling quite faint due to the lack of food and mid-day sun -- began wandering aimlessly in the direction of South Central L.A. Fortunately, a wandering pack of Overeaters Anonymous cowboys were able to rustle up the herd and steer them back towards the protective, welcoming confines of Beverly Hills.
    posted by pardonyou? at 8:42 AM on March 10, 2008 [2 favorites]


    furiousxgeorge: "Could we ban everyone who posts long winded open-ended, over-dramatic relationship questions, fakepost or not?"

    Could we ban everyone who answers long winded open-ended, over-dramatic relationship questions? Cut off their oxygen and the lunatics will be more likely to stay with LJ.
    posted by meehawl at 8:46 AM on March 10, 2008 [3 favorites]


    Setting aside the truth of the details for a moment, where my alarm goes off is Sansgras's in-thread responses.

    Sansgras, you have people posting responses to your question, and you only pick up what a small few are saying. You don't seem to consider reasonable advice- you are stuck thinking and talking what you want to talk about. That is fine, in a sense, but true growth will come when you consider *all* of what people are trying to tell you, even if it hurts because it is true.

    When you dodge/don't response to some of the comments, you remind me of the ebay scammer that posted questions to AskMe. That is what sets off the alarms for me.
    posted by Monday at 8:49 AM on March 10, 2008


    If sansgras is fraudulent, then y'all are providing him/her with the exact kind of entertainment they're out to get in the first place.
    posted by sciurus at 8:52 AM on March 10, 2008 [2 favorites]


    ...Together, they fight MeFi Crime.

    In the dystopian future of MeFi, the pre-cog versions of Jess, Matt, and Cortex will be able to detect a bad post before it happens and lower the ban hammer before we even have a chance to snark.
    posted by boubelium at 8:54 AM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Barring that, if someone wants to team up and be the Herc to my Carver, we can bust some Mefi Heads the Western District Way.

    *shaves head, packs on pounds*
    posted by jonmc at 8:54 AM on March 10, 2008 [6 favorites]


    Well, pathetic may be too strong a word. But it really is shocking that anyone could read her query and not be awestruck by the vapidity and shallowness of it, and in response think that some well-crafted coda is going to somehow be seen as enlightening by a person that would post such purple horseshit. Worse yet, everything she's already said in her post makes it clear that she openly or subconsciously has nothing but disdain for people that actually treat her with respect. These people don't need more of your time and when you give it to them they think you're a rube for trying. But carry on just the same if it keeps them off the streets a minute longer.
    posted by docpops at 8:56 AM on March 10, 2008 [3 favorites]


    Welcome back, jonmc.
    posted by Blazecock Pileon at 8:57 AM on March 10, 2008


    Meanwhile, what happened here?
    posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:02 AM on March 10, 2008 [3 favorites]


    What a crazy Monday morning! Got to go to lunch now... I hope I don't miss anything when I'm gone.
    posted by yeti at 9:04 AM on March 10, 2008


    Pony request: Can someone read through AskMe to get to the really good ones like this and post a compilation list? I can not slog through innumerable queries about speaker cables and carnauba wax, but I do enjoy these clusterfuck questions.
    posted by Mister_A at 9:05 AM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    I don't know how much of sansgras's story is exaggerated or made up -- the name thing is totally fishy.

    But I work with biomedical researchers, and can say that 20-year-olds with master's degrees aren't unicorns. She'd even have time to graduate from high school at the normal time and do a two-year master's.
    posted by desuetude at 9:06 AM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Are you calling me crazy, yeti?
    posted by Monday at 9:07 AM on March 10, 2008


    I'm thinking this, and I'm inclined to be sympathetic. There are three possibilities:

    1.These postings could be a complete put-on, a total calculated stunt.
    2. These postings could reflect a genuine identity but contain an incredible amount of 3. prevarication (there are a lot of factual inconsistencies).
    Or they could be completely, bizarrely true, at least in the main.

    If it's anything other than 1, we have an OP here with some really very serious personal problem. So my sense of this is that we are seeing a personal mental health crisis. Whether her drama is real or not is less important than the fact that she needs to secure professional help, one way or the other, ASAP, even if it's just driving directly to the ER or the women's shelter next time instead of going to class. The convoluted thinking, the confusion, the desperation, and the neediness are screamingly clear.

    Heck, those things are true even in the case of #1.

    I'm disuturbed and perhaps a bit enlighted by the mention in the first AskMe that "I have to drown myself in benzodiazepines if I want to simply interact with the guy in any manner." The Wikipedia page also says "Benzodiazepines can cause a wide range of significant behavioral disturbances and cognitive impairment. Cognitive deficits, including concentration and memory-processing problems, are a well-known adverse effect of benzodiazepines and occur at prescribed dose levels."

    In the 3rd posting medication shows up again: "I am also back on anti-depressants. I summoned the courage to see my GP, and I'm now on an SSRI and a benzo. She wants me to see a psychiatrist and a therapist before she continues to see me anymore. "

    On March 1 she notes that the present relationship (about which she made the most recent post) is ending with the male's rejection of her, and also that she is "tapering herself of the Lexapro" in advance of moving out secretly, "...and this also worries me because it helps so much. I don't have the energy to feel any worse."

    No wonder this is all so nutty. For one thing, messing around with administering and then withdrawing from your own meds will spin your head every time. Stop! Call your doctor!

    There are hints of a lying problem. She says in the first post she's working full-time, in the third that she's working part-time. As to the other message board and the "sansgras" name, she says in an earliler thread "I realize my posts come up easily through a Google search. I haven't given away any identifying details, my username is one I made up for this site only...", which has been contradicted in this thread. There are claims of having never dated, then claims of "dating" several people, though it's not clear what "dating" means (could mean phone conversations or sex appointments). So I don't think truthfulness is a strong suit here, but I also don't think that necessarily invalidates the entire rest of the story. Someone who has a deeply messed-up family situation, skewed sense of self-worth, history of disorders, and changes in psychotropic drug use going on might have illusions, shelteredess, and a weaker sense of reality going on than we generally expect.

    My bottom line: I see a lot of effort to sneaking around, trying to fix and perfect every aspect of a life that isn't working. It's not helping. If the story's true, you might consider getting to a women's shelter immediately. They'll help you figure out everything else about jobs, cellphones, and rent, but for your own health and safety, it seems you need to take some definitive action.

    You're not thinking straight. Get help, girlfriend. Stet.
    posted by Miko at 9:08 AM on March 10, 2008 [27 favorites]


    But I work with biomedical researchers, and can say that 20-year-olds with master's degrees aren't unicorns.

    I work with biomedical researchers too, and have never met a 20-year-old with a master's degree.

    She'd even have time to graduate from high school at the normal time and do a two-year master's.

    No, she wouldn't, unless her undergraduate degree took less than a year.
    posted by grouse at 9:10 AM on March 10, 2008


    Miko, you're awesome.
    posted by Mister_A at 9:13 AM on March 10, 2008


    In world of Keyser Sozes, TylerDurden72s and DIEMBAGRULZ, having a username like sansgras doesn't seem so out of the ordinary. For what its worth, I give her the benefit of the doubt in the absence of a FireFox plugin or Greasemonkey script entitled "HonestChecker™" For fucksakes, I've been gamed before on the web and I'm sure I will again (remember Plain Layne?) but my computer didn't explode, my bank account wasn't emptied and I can still get an erection (ok I lied - my monitor did burn out). I trust that most of our membership is able to sniff this shit out quicker than a bloodhound at a fish-fry. To me it seems this trail leads nowhere.
    posted by KevinSkomsvold at 9:15 AM on March 10, 2008


    Is "fat-free" a common pseudonym on weight-centered forums or is it simply the french translation that's common (if it is indeed common)?
    posted by Skorgu at 9:15 AM on March 10, 2008


    Meanwhile, what happened here?

    TPS, I really don't know. The thread was messy when I got up and when I noticed that the user has closed her account, I just decided to close the thread.
    posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:17 AM on March 10, 2008


    ^loiseau: Secret Squirrel was a cartoon character. aeschenkarnos was saying that if:
    - OP's story is true, and you advise as true: win-win
    - OP's story is true, you advise as false: it could be messy.
    - OP's story is false, you advise as true: you just got some good practice.
    - OP's story is false, you advise as false: You are Secret Squirrel.

    So, if you knew the answer to that question before you commented, I just got some good practice.
    posted by not_on_display at 9:18 AM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Being a 20 year old with a masters doesn't sound that implausible to me.

    I graduated from high school at 17 (my birthday's in July), started college at 18, and graduated a year early, a few months shy of my 21st birthday. If I'd skipped a grade or two in elementary school I could easily have had time to get a masters in there.

    OR DID I?
    posted by fuzzbean at 9:18 AM on March 10, 2008 [9 favorites]



    Is "fat-free" a common pseudonym on weight-centered forums or is it simply the french translation that's common (if it is indeed common)?


    My google for sansgras didn't reveal much aside from the metafilter posts, the pro-an stuff, and a gnomish WoW player. I didn't know gnomes could get anorexia.
    posted by furiousxgeorge at 9:22 AM on March 10, 2008


    Gnomes are low-fat, not fat-free. They go good with mustard and rye bread.
    posted by Mister_A at 9:23 AM on March 10, 2008 [5 favorites]


    My brother at age 16 (also a July bday), skipped his senior year to go on to college. Finished a 4 year degree in 3, graduated college at 19 and had his Masters at 21. It was a 2-year program though. So I guess it can be done if the stars allign correctly...
    posted by pearlybob at 9:24 AM on March 10, 2008


    Am I the only one who had to look up "pro-ana" in wikipedia?
    posted by octothorpe at 9:25 AM on March 10, 2008


    Nope.
    posted by Mister_A at 9:25 AM on March 10, 2008


    Dagnabit Jonmc, I just noticed you came back. Now I have to add you back as a contact. Just for that, I'm marking you as a "sweetheart."
    posted by KevinSkomsvold at 9:25 AM on March 10, 2008


    Also, the claims of early graduate dregrees and suchlike reminds me of un owen. Whatever happened to her?

    Setting aside the truth of the details for a moment, where my alarm goes off is Sansgras's in-thread responses.


    Yep, those were the two things that flipped the suspicion switch for me. I posted my first response under the impression of "Oh yeah: dramatic 20-year-old girl, with a tendency to overanalyze everything -- i rememberwhat that was like." My second response came after taking a very perfunctory glance at the "my dad is abusing me" threads, which I hadn't read before.

    But then, when she comes back with the "I want the Bobby to my Whitney" (and, as an aside: what year is this that all the kids are idolizing Bobby Brown/Whitney Houston as the sexy dysfunctional drama to emulate? I mean, they're not even on TV anymore, no?), it was clear that she is either purposely yanking some chains, or is seriously in need of help. She doesn't want advice, she wants attention. Whether it's attention for an entirely made-up drama, or attention for an actual train wreck in progress, she seems to want witnesses rather than help. But that's exactly what she needs, in either case.
    posted by scody at 9:25 AM on March 10, 2008



    Gnomes are low-fat, not fat-free. They go good with mustard and rye bread.


    Don't have to tell me, I play an undead warlock. Gnomes are an integral part of the diet.
    posted by furiousxgeorge at 9:25 AM on March 10, 2008


    My spidey sense agrees with the call of "bullshit."

    I also noticed what iconomy pointed out, "Shouldn't that say 'And if I was Beth, the integral part of her story is that she claims to be a doctor. I am 20, a former graduate student, not a doctor.'?" If you weren't Beth, you'd not give a hoot about how your story sounded in comparison to hers. Like the detectives say, you just don't act like a truly innocent suspect would.

    And I also don't believe that an internet community, even one full of admittedly sick people, would allow a new different user to adopt the name of an old shit-stirrer that was gone.

    And, "Why would I use a name that you could easily Google?" is also a bullshit response. We don't go around googling all new users, all the time. Anyone who'd been lurking here for even the shortest amount of time would appreciate that the sheer size of the membership prevents that sort of vetting, especially since this a general-interest site. So, I would assume, sansgras, that you felt you could slip in under the radar, with a group of folks that (for the most part) are too well-hinged that there would be a risk of overlap with the other community.

    So, your logical defenses, aren't. Merely specious and truthy. And you've admitted to being on the same board as the original crazy person.

    While it appears that the mods have decided you haven't done anything that breaks the rules here, I hope you realize that if you are trying to work drama here, you are merely a Little League pitcher trying to play with the New York Yankees' starting rotation. Enjoy the lights and the roar of the crowd while it lasts, because your every move here is going to be watched. Don't forget: the whole world was taken in by Kaycee Nicole, and you're prancing around among the gang of bloodhounds that sniffed out the fraud.

    And if you're for real, then keep on keeping on, and truth will eventually redeem you, and those of us who doubted you will apologize, and it'll all be fine. And, get help, like Miko said -- because whether you're crazy-but-not-that-other-crazy-girl or crazy-but-a-brand-new-crazy, you're still... yep. Crazy.
    posted by pineapple at 9:26 AM on March 10, 2008 [6 favorites]


    docpops: Well, pathetic may be too strong a word. But it really is shocking that anyone could read her query and not be awestruck by the vapidity and shallowness of it, and in response think that some well-crafted coda is going to somehow be seen as enlightening by a person that would post such purple horseshit.

    Well, to be fair, someone did recommend she read the Bible of vapidity, He's Just Not That Into You.
    posted by loiseau at 9:31 AM on March 10, 2008


    Definitely can pearlybob, I'm just saying that you can't graduate "at the normal time" and do it unless you finish your undergrad degree within a year. I would define the normal time as being at least 17 at college matriculation.
    posted by grouse at 9:31 AM on March 10, 2008


    The member does not seem to have violated any guidelines. The member appears to be in need of psychiatric help. Why not answer the questions honestly with the need for psychiatric help in mind?

    If any or all of it is accurate, or a pack of paranoid delusions, honest expressions of concern, and useful answers, may help, and seem unlikely to hurt.

    Miko, is, in fact, awesome.
    posted by theora55 at 9:32 AM on March 10, 2008


    I don't understand why her questions pass the sniff test at all, real or fake. She doesn't seem to care about the answers given, and her questions just seem like a chatfilter-y version of "my pseudo-boyfriend/stalking dad sucks, amirite?"
    posted by fermezporte at 9:32 AM on March 10, 2008


    I can almost hear Russell Crowe shouting, "Are you not entertained?"
    posted by ikkyu2 at 9:33 AM on March 10, 2008 [14 favorites]


    Can we go back to the part where there were pro-ana people? What does that even mean? Like are they pro-eating disorder with full knowledge that it is a disorder? Or are they just pro-really, really thin people? What would these kind of people discuss on a dedicated pro-ana forum? That food is gross?
    posted by dios at 9:34 AM on March 10, 2008


    Miko is pretty neat. also, jonmc is back? should that be called a Uuuuuuhw?
    posted by shmegegge at 9:34 AM on March 10, 2008


    It's funny how Internet trolls can be so creative with their fictional scenarios, yet so unimaginitve when creating new usernames. Oh well, I'm sure that doesn't apply here at all...
    posted by junkbox at 9:38 AM on March 10, 2008


    loiseau : Can someone explain what this post means? I can't figure it out.

    This is a coded challenge. Kind of like how, in World War 2 the French Resistance might say: "The fox in in the hedge" to which the response of "The falcon is in the tree" would get you safe passage through enemy lines.

    "Three Cheers For Secret Squirrel" requires a reply of "Because he's a bit of a nut" and will get you a 10% discount at Applebees and a choice of smoked and aged cheddars from the Cheese of the Month club.

    You just have to know the right people to ask.
    posted by quin at 9:43 AM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    dios said: "Can we go back to the part where there were pro-ana people? What does that even mean? Like are they pro-eating disorder with full knowledge that it is a disorder? Or are they just pro-really, really thin people? What would these kind of people discuss on a dedicated pro-ana forum? That food is gross?"

    They're pro-anorexia, basically. They know it's technically an eating disorder in that it isn't normal or what so-called doctors would call "so-called" "healthy," but they don't believe it's harmful to them. They talk about ways to avoid detection at school and by parents and friends and in social situations. They talk about ways to take in minimal amounts of calories for the maximum nutrition needed to stay alive, and they share techniques and recommendations for purging, laxatives, where to buy children's-sized clothes that can pass for adult designs. They share pictures and tell each other how beautiful they are, and reaffirm messages like "You can never be too thin!" and "You have to be thin to be popular!" and "Size 6 is fat and disgusting!"

    It's really, really sick stuff. They basically encourage and enable all the absolute worst, most toxic behaviors in each other -- because like so many anorexics, they can get what they need in private.

    This is the kind of stuff that makes my shoulder angel and shoulder devil go mad. "But it's the First Amendment!" "But they're committing group suicide, essentially!" "But they have that right!" "But what if it's children posting? Minors?" "That's on the ISP and host and siteowner, it's not your problem!" Ad aeternum.
    posted by pineapple at 9:45 AM on March 10, 2008 [6 favorites]




    It's funny how Internet trolls can be so creative with their fictional scenarios, yet so unimaginitve when creating new usernames. Oh well, I'm sure that doesn't apply here at all...


    It must be like the hackers who just have to brag about what they did on usenet or irc, it's no fun if no one knows what you did, or in this case that you managed to pull the same type of stunt twice.
    posted by furiousxgeorge at 9:45 AM on March 10, 2008


    Can we go back to the part where there were pro-ana people? What does that even mean? Like are they pro-eating disorder with full knowledge that it is a disorder? Or are they just pro-really, really thin people? What would these kind of people discuss on a dedicated pro-ana forum? That food is gross?

    It's exactly what it sounds like, people who are pro-anorexia. Welcome to the internet.
    posted by delmoi at 9:47 AM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Pathological people have access to the internet, too.
    posted by Dave Faris at 9:51 AM on March 10, 2008


    > This is the kind of stuff that makes my shoulder angel and shoulder devil go mad. "But it's the First Amendment!" "But they're committing group suicide, essentially!" "But they have that right!" "But what if it's children posting? Minors?" "That's on the ISP and host and siteowner, it's not your problem!" Ad aeternum.

    In this, it's very much the same as a.s.h for me - a place where I don't mind admitting I spent a great deal of my early 20s...

    I've known anorexics, and it is, like most "mental" illnesses, the case that there can be no recovery before there's an admission of a problem, and places like a.s.h or pro-ana give sufferers a place where people basically say "but this isn't a problem for us!" As you say, issues of free speech come into play, and also, perhaps (which came to be my belief with a.s.h) the fact that any support is better than none at all for some of these people.
    posted by benzo8 at 9:56 AM on March 10, 2008


    This thread certainly backs up your assertion, Dave.
    posted by Mister_A at 9:57 AM on March 10, 2008


    Where I said "stet," it should read "stat." Thanks to a helpful MeFite for pointing out my error. I meant to emphasize: right away.
    posted by Miko at 10:00 AM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    She'd even have time to graduate from high school at the normal time and do a two-year master's.

    No, she wouldn't, unless her undergraduate degree took less than a year.


    Dammit. You're right grouse -- she'd have to graduate early. I should lay off doing anything that involves counting in the am.

    But I do know 20-year-olds with graduate degrees. (Concurrent college/HS enrollment then straight to masters.)
    posted by desuetude at 10:10 AM on March 10, 2008


    "Stet" works too, though. "Let it be written: you need help! If anyone said otherwise, it was a mistake!"
    posted by nebulawindphone at 10:11 AM on March 10, 2008 [2 favorites]


    benzo8 said: "In this, it's very much the same as a.s.h for me - a place where I don't mind admitting I spent a great deal of my early 20s..."

    American Society of Hematology? I don't mean to be flip, but I Googled and couldn't find this a.s.h. You don't have to say it aloud if you are trying to avoid the Google, but I'm just curious.

    "As you say, issues of free speech come into play, and also, perhaps (which came to be my belief with a.s.h) the fact that any support is better than none at all for some of these people."

    I guess. I've never spent time on those boards nor have anorexia, so I can't really speak to what the participants get from it... but it just seems that "support" of the deadliest of the behaviors is far worse than "none at all." It's not like they're all supporting each other in recovery. They're supporting each other to continue killing themselves. It seems to me like the mob mentality only serves to strengthen and perpetuate the illnesses.
    posted by pineapple at 10:11 AM on March 10, 2008


    I have a friend who got a masters in Human Computer Interaction at CMU in like 18 months.

    I'll bet he used Linux and smelled bad!
    posted by ludwig_van at 10:12 AM on March 10, 2008


    I agree with CunningLinguist, this just screams un owen's drama. The complicated as hell back story. The need to post a long thread putting all the pieces together, with a "hope that helps" tone. It just all seems calculated and made up at the same time, that it's easy to see why it raises suspicions.
    posted by piratebowling at 10:14 AM on March 10, 2008


    dios - it's a really very disturbing scene, one that revolves around promoting anorexia as a lifestyle rather than an illness. So, eg., community members will exchange tips on how to hide the extent of their anorexia, swap inspirational (or 'thinspirational') images of emaciated people, organise group fasting sessions, &c.. So, yeah, 'food is gross' is a big part of it. There are even sub-subcultures, like Emo Thinspiration, and sites devoted to bulimic purging - 'pro-mia' - rather than not eating.

    That's at the more extreme end of things, anyway: some pro-ana communities are really, or at least claim to be, support groups for folk with anorexia, and do admit that it's a disorder rather than a lifestyle thing.

    Health professionals tend to take a very dim view - funnily enough - of the whole pro-ana scene, and in the UK at least, there have been attempts to have sites shut down - I think Yahoo! have shut down some sites/mailing lists, but most of the social network sites tend to leave them be, and it seems to be a pretty big scene on LiveJournal especially.

    Oop, on preview: what everyone else just said.
    posted by jack_mo at 10:14 AM on March 10, 2008


    American Society of Hematology? I don't mean to be flip, but I Googled and couldn't find this a.s.h. You don't have to say it aloud if you are trying to avoid the Google, but I'm just curious.

    alt.sex.harrypotter. Duh.
    posted by mullacc at 10:16 AM on March 10, 2008


    alt.sex.h?????????
    posted by yhbc at 10:19 AM on March 10, 2008


    In this, it's very much the same as a.s.h for me - a place where I don't mind admitting I spent a great deal of my early 20s...

    alt.sex.horses? I'd keep quiet about that if I were you. They tend to be a bit judgemental about that stuff around here...
    posted by PeterMcDermott at 10:27 AM on March 10, 2008


    >American Society of Hematology?

    rofl! No, sorry - a.s.h = alt.suicide.holiday, a USENET group originally set up to discuss why the suicide rate increased around the holiday season, which rapidly morphed to be a waiting room (a bus stop, in fact, was the parlance) for people feeling suicidal and/or planning suicide.

    > alt.sex.harrypotter. Duh.

    OK, now that's just (wizard-)fucking funny!
    posted by benzo8 at 10:28 AM on March 10, 2008


    Previous discussion of a Pro-Ana site, on MeFi.

    I stand by what I said in that thread. If I had a daughter with an eating disorder, I would keep her as far away from other eating disordered people as I could.
    posted by orange swan at 10:28 AM on March 10, 2008


    Oh, I thought she meant pro-Ana.

    Never mind.
    posted by SteveInMaine at 10:31 AM on March 10, 2008


    Get help, girlfriend. Stet.

    I thought it was 'Stat.' Unless "Stet" is a new medication or something.
    posted by jonmc at 10:31 AM on March 10, 2008


    Brandon Blatcher: Now would be a good time for everyone to take a smoke or chocolate break.

    The best tasting thing ever (in my opinion) is a piece of Ghirardelli dark chocolate washed down by a vanilla frappucino. Of course, I quit smoking. :(
    posted by desjardins at 10:33 AM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    I thought it was 'Stat.' Unless "Stet" is a new medication or something.

    She corrected herself already. Also, I prefer to think she was saying that switching to a Stetson (from a fedora, natch) would somehow help.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 10:38 AM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Thanks, orange swan. I knew we'd seen that before, but didn't realize it'd been so long ago.
    posted by MrMoonPie at 10:39 AM on March 10, 2008


    Also, I prefer to think she was saying that switching to a Stetson (from a fedora, natch) would somehow help.

    Well, it'd hold ten gallons of booze, which couldn't be bad.
    posted by jonmc at 10:39 AM on March 10, 2008


    I knew what pro-ana was (thank you very much Randal K. Milholland) without Googling, but a.s.h. I had to look up.
    posted by Johnny Assay at 10:43 AM on March 10, 2008


    The best tasting thing ever (in my opinion) is a piece of Ghirardelli dark chocolate washed down by a vanilla frappucino. Of course, I quit smoking. :(

    Gee thanks, now guess what I'm craving? Hint: It's not a ciggie.
    posted by konolia at 10:46 AM on March 10, 2008


    A hat full of booze?
    posted by jonmc at 10:52 AM on March 10, 2008 [4 favorites]


    Starving yourself? You're actually craving nothing.
    posted by item at 11:02 AM on March 10, 2008


    speaking of a.s.h, there's also an irc channel called #alt.suicide.bus.stop for anyone who might be interested.
    posted by yeoz at 11:04 AM on March 10, 2008


    what this person did to an ANA group was rather callous and possibly despicable. ANA people don't need any help being jaded and that certainly didn't provide any healing...not that they necessarily were looking for it. I agree completely with pineapple.

    I don't think bad behavior should be rewarded generally but I also think that we're not going to stop it from happening and we might as well provide a safe outlet for it.
    posted by wantwit at 11:08 AM on March 10, 2008


    I know how frustrating it is to have given your time, attention, and emotional energy to helping a person who decieved you. I had a friend in high school who lied to a few people about having cancer, and I was furious when I found out that she was lying.

    That said, at this point, the basis for the assertion that sansgras is a fraud is basically a "feeling." Perhaps that feeling is right, but for now, I wonder if we couldn't show a little kindness to sansgras, who may very well be a real person working through some very serious issues.

    If you find her postings annoying or immature, I understand -- sometimes I also lose patience with my friends when they won't take my advice. I just want to remind everyone that most people aren't really very mature at 20 (no matter how many degrees they've racked up). If sangras has told us a true story about herself, then she has had to deal with emotional abuse and is isolated from people who could help her. She may not have developed strong coping skills. It's not very surprising that she's acting out in unhealthy ways.

    It would be unfortunate if the thrill of the hunt distracted us from an opportunity to help someone.
    posted by prefpara at 11:22 AM on March 10, 2008 [3 favorites]


    but a.s.h. I had to look up.

    How the hell did you find it? I tried, but like pineapple I just came up with American Society of Hematology.

    Also, fedoras rule.
    posted by languagehat at 11:22 AM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Metafilter: a safe outlet for bad behaviour
    posted by PeterMcDermott at 11:22 AM on March 10, 2008


    How the hell did you find it?

    freedictionary.com is usually helpful with acronyms...
    posted by nzero at 11:26 AM on March 10, 2008


    Er, thefreedictionary.com, excuse me.
    posted by nzero at 11:27 AM on March 10, 2008


    And, after posting and actually googling it, it's the fourth result...
    posted by nzero at 11:28 AM on March 10, 2008


    Languagehat: I googled a.s.h. usenet to find it.
    posted by aspo at 11:28 AM on March 10, 2008


    And if I was Beth, the integral part of her story is that she claims to be a doctor. I'm claiming to be 20, a former graduate student, not a doctor.

    I know klang and iconomy already called this particular bit of weirdness out, but again: what the fuck? (Or, as I imagine Andy Samberg shrieking whilst dressed as Diablo Cody: waddle the duck?!?! I was a stripper!)

    Even if sansgras is indeed -- as prefpara very compassionately notes above -- a troubled person with poor coping skills acting out in unhealthy ways, the phrasing of "I'm claiming" rather than "I am" just amplifies the hinky factor. I want to give her the benefit of the doubt, but that line just sort of stops me cold.
    posted by scody at 11:40 AM on March 10, 2008


    No, she wouldn't, unless her undergraduate degree took less than a year.

    Suppose that she graduated high school at 16. That's early, but not all that uncommon. Taking summer courses, it's pretty common to get an undergrad degree in three years and take some grad courses at the same time.

    I can believe that a 20-year-old has a Master's, but I can't believe that one would be able to get a date.
    posted by ten pounds of inedita at 11:42 AM on March 10, 2008


    She corrected herself already.

    Interestingly enough, saying 'stet' when you meant something else is the one error than can't be corrected. It's the editorial equivalent of division by zero.
    posted by George_Spiggott at 11:45 AM on March 10, 2008 [39 favorites]


    My head hurts.
    posted by miss lynnster at 11:47 AM on March 10, 2008


    And if I was Beth, the integral part of her story is that she claims to be a doctor. I'm claiming to be 20, a former graduate student, not a doctor.

    Honestly, to be fair, I can imagine saying something like this myself— it's pretty clumsy, rhetorically, but makes sense if you read it as someone trying to point out that the claims are different, and therefore the noted similarities don't matter. I don't think the 'I'm claiming' is very suspicious. Dumb-sounding, but not suspicious.
    posted by shakespeherian at 11:47 AM on March 10, 2008 [2 favorites]


    Suppose that she graduated high school at 16.

    I would not define that as graduating at the "normal time," and desuetude has admitted that her statement does not hold water.
    posted by grouse at 11:48 AM on March 10, 2008


    I'm not claiming that I'm mean, I'm just claiming that I once shot a man for snoring too loud.
    posted by Astro Zombie at 11:58 AM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    So what did ever become of unowen?
    posted by acorncup at 12:08 PM on March 10, 2008 [2 favorites]


    I would not define that as graduating at the "normal time," and desuetude has admitted that her statement does not hold water.

    On the other hand, graduating at 17 is normal, and it's conceivable to have a Master's three years later with concurrent HS and undergrad courses and concurrent undergrad and grad courses. I don't believe for a second that this is what she's done, though, since she's clearly lying about her history.

    But my point is that it is possible, even for folks who never skipped a grade.
    posted by ten pounds of inedita at 12:15 PM on March 10, 2008


    "It would be unfortunate if the thrill of the hunt distracted us from an opportunity to help someone."

    Even if we accept that this is real - which seems wildly dubious at this point - there isn't any help to be done here. There is some AskMe history here, and the person isn't taking any of the good advise given. Right? If it was just once I would agree, but this is a serial narative where the poster is clearly not being helped. We are enabling rather than helping. And what would we be helping exactly? The "question" in this last instance is just a blog post.

    Straight up - The idea that maybe we should "help" by letting someone like this post their latest train wreck installment seems like a bad idea.
    posted by Ragma at 12:20 PM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    prefpara wrote: It would be unfortunate if the thrill of the hunt distracted us from an opportunity to help someone.

    The problem with people who pull this sort of stunt is that the undermine our confidence in everybody. Take you, for example:

    sansgras arrives here in December 07. You arrive here in January 08.
    sansgras claims to have just completed a postgrad degree. You post asking for advice on which postgrad degree to choose.
    sansgras/beth is from San Francisco. Weirdly, you also appear to be from San Francisco.
    'dr' beth/sansgras's livejournal claims her favourite subjects were psychology and histology. You post asking about psychology masters degrees.
    beth/sangras worst memory? "finding out my best friend had cancer". Whereas you write: "I had a friend in high school who lied to a few people about having cancer, and I was furious when I found out that she was lying."

    Coincidences? Who knows?

    I think this bit though, is probably absolutely true:

    If sangras has told us a true story about herself, then she has had to deal with emotional abuse and is isolated from people who could help her. She may not have developed strong coping skills. It's not very surprising that she's acting out in unhealthy ways.
    posted by PeterMcDermott at 12:24 PM on March 10, 2008 [7 favorites]


    Even if sansgras is indeed -- as prefpara very compassionately notes above -- a troubled person with poor coping skills acting out in unhealthy ways, the phrasing of "I'm claiming" rather than "I am" just amplifies the hinky factor. I want to give her the benefit of the doubt, but that line just sort of stops me cold

    I actually read the "I'm claiming" bit to be sarcasm that should've been in quotes to make that obvious.

    /not disputing the hinky, tho
    posted by desuetude at 12:25 PM on March 10, 2008


    If prefpara and sangras are posting from the same IP, I will never stop laughing.
    posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 12:32 PM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    In all honesty, I'd accept her story as true with the catch that self-deception and self-contradiction go hand-in-hand and she probably isn't quite sure how to frame the details of her own life. Anyone who's devoted all her time to working, school, and avoiding an abusively crazy father isn't going to have time for a real love life, nor is she likely to be emotionally receptive to a healthy one. I'd like to wish mefi's sansgras, assuming she's telling her story as she perceives it, a good period of self-reflection where she figures out that not everything in life has to be a challenge, and that emotional availability at the expense of being hurt is worth it. No one who has led such a tense life should be forcing sexual get-togethers instead of making the time to date.

    But yeah, she's pretty much ignored anyone who's said to get into a different space, slow down, and go out and find herself.
    posted by mikeh at 12:38 PM on March 10, 2008


    Even if we accept that this is real - which seems wildly dubious at this point - there isn't any help to be done here.

    I disagree. I don't think immediate change as a direct result of mefi advice is the only kind of "help." I think that even if all that happens is that we give a person in trouble good advice, we've helped them. It takes time for change to take place.

    What I see as a real danger here, however, is that sansgras may really be in unusual and very difficult circumstances. She came here, and found a safe space where she could talk openly about her problems, and she recieved good advice, some of which she took. Wouldn't it be terrible if the final lesson she took away from this was that she needs to make sure never to open up to people about her problems because they'll disbelieve her, jump all over her for lacking a buddha-like calm in the face of parental rejection, and mock her sincere pain and her fumbling attempts to deal with it?

    If you think people with problems like hers don't belong here, surely there must be a kinder way of making that happen than what has been said on this thread and in her original post.


    PeterMcDermott
    , I agree that in a community such as this one, which relies on an implicit honor code, liars harm everyone. What confuses me is that you seem to be saying that the harm is that the people who have been misled will overreact in the future, seeing lies where there are none. I agree that that is a problem, and I am suggesting that some of that may be happening here, where I see people jumping to conclusions based on intuition and theories. So I think we may actually be in agreement.
    posted by prefpara at 12:39 PM on March 10, 2008 [2 favorites]


    PeterMcDermott, you might just be on to something. Prefara's history is very slight, yet there are interesting points about it.

    - Prefpara's one post to AskMe asking about post grad programs is "posted for a friend". This friend is from an immigrant, Mediterranean family, like Sansgras.
    - Prefpara has only made four comments on the blue... all of which were in the fake gangster memoir thread.
    - Several of Prefpara's 16 comments on the green, and her only comments to the gray, were made in Sansgras's threads.
    posted by orange swan at 12:45 PM on March 10, 2008


    Oh, I thought she meant pro-Ana.

    Never mind.


    She's my fave.
    posted by anazgnos at 12:45 PM on March 10, 2008


    Next on metafilter mysteries: peter mcdermott, ftw?
    posted by milarepa at 12:49 PM on March 10, 2008


    - Several of Prefpara's 16 comments on the green, and her only comments to the gray, were made in Sansgras's threads.

    Whoops - only one of Prepara's comments on Askme were in Sansgras thread - the "dating a divorced man" one, and of course that thread led her, naturally enough, to the gray. My mistake.
    posted by orange swan at 12:51 PM on March 10, 2008


    Three new terrible band names :

    loud garage rock band : The Geese That Can't Stop Killing You
    all-girl surf-rock band : The Estronauts
    a band composed entirely of divorced dads : Inner-Child Support
    posted by Afroblanco at 12:53 PM on March 10, 2008 [4 favorites]


    "I'd like to wish mefi's sansgras. . . a good period of self-reflection where she figures out that not everything in life has to be a challenge, and that emotional availability at the expense of being hurt is worth it."

    Man, I'd sure like that too. Heck, it's something that I'd wish for everyone.

    Good periods of self-reflection for all!
    posted by Ms. Saint at 12:53 PM on March 10, 2008


    So I think we may actually be in agreement.

    Yeah, I don't disagree with you, prefpara. I'm actually both sympathetic towards sansgras and her condition, and found her posts funny and likeable. Personally, I don't get unduly irritated by this stuff because I don't invest very much in my online relationships. I was just struck by the interesting parallels between her, and her first real champion.

    You two don't know each other then?
    posted by PeterMcDermott at 12:54 PM on March 10, 2008


    Next on metafilter mysteries: peter mcdermott, ftw?

    I cannot tell a lie. I am the Star Wars Kid.
    posted by PeterMcDermott at 12:58 PM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    You two don't know each other then?

    No, I don't. I've been following her story on AskMe for a while because it won my sympathy (I have been reading AskMe for months... really, really bored at work).

    I don't think I'm the first person to defend her here. Really, it's just that I don't think she's lying, and I do think that some of the things that people have said about her could really hurt her and are not justified by the possibility that her posts are fake.

    In general, I think it's too easy to make fun of unhappy people who don't know what to do with their unhappiness. They're awkward, they say the wrong thing, they don't fix themselves as quickly as our patience demands. I get that their sucky poetry is annoying, I just don't think that makes it okay to be cruel.
    posted by prefpara at 1:05 PM on March 10, 2008 [11 favorites]


    This is MetaFilter?
    posted by popcassady at 1:07 PM on March 10, 2008


    THIS IS METAFILTER!
    posted by Stynxno at 1:13 PM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Where I said "stet," it should read "stat." Thanks to a helpful MeFite for pointing out my error. I meant to emphasize: right away.

    I am greatly relieved to here that.
    posted by stet at 1:14 PM on March 10, 2008 [9 favorites]


    You two don't know each other then?

    No, I don't.


    "No, we don't" would be a little easier to take.
    posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 1:17 PM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    In general, I think it's too easy to make fun of unhappy people who don't know what to do with their unhappiness. They're awkward, they say the wrong thing, they don't fix themselves as quickly as our patience demands. I get that their sucky poetry is annoying, I just don't think that makes it okay to be cruel.

    Unhappy people are one thing. Unhappy people who game Metafilter and have in the past lied to vulnerable people to elicit from them attention and probably money are a totally different thing. If this sangras and that sangras are different people and this sangras is telling the truth then I have no problem with her and hope that she is able to get her head on straight. If this sangras is that sangras and this is more of the same, then fuck her. There are a lot of people with problems and I will reserve my sympathy for the ones that aren't fucking with Metafilter.
    posted by ND¢ at 1:22 PM on March 10, 2008


    MY MODS, MY MODS, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN THIS THREAD?
    posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 1:26 PM on March 10, 2008 [2 favorites]


    What do you want us to say? There's no new evidence to confirm or deny sansgras' story; I haven't heard from her, and there's no on-site activity since her last comment in this thread, so I don't know what's up.

    I don't have anything that suggests prefpara is telling anything but the truth, so taking her on her word seems like the reasonable approach.

    People seem to be not completely flipping out at the moment, and that's good enough for me.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 1:34 PM on March 10, 2008 [2 favorites]


    I'm silently flipping out, that's why.
    posted by yeti at 1:35 PM on March 10, 2008


    What do you want us to say?

    "Brandon, you're awesome" would be a good start.
    posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:39 PM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Sentence first--verdict afterwards!
    posted by Justinian at 1:40 PM on March 10, 2008


    Some of the meanness / snarkiness here seems unnecessary. Maybe we should wait for cortex to speak to sansgras privately, first, before speaking to sansgras on the assumption that she's lying. I think it's still possible she's an actual person; maybe some of the details she's related over the span of her askme questions don't seem to add up, but like others have pointed out, if you're a victim of the type of abusive situation she's been in for most of her life, your sense and perspective of reality tends to shift from time to time (e.g. her definition of "dating" shifting over time), and you sometimes believe yourself incapable (or are incapable) of doing things that other "normal" people would be able to do (e.g. renting your own apartment, becoming independent and living a life apart from your family, etc).
    And yeah, I've seen a bunch of friends/acquaintances go for 1 year master's programs, get their masters by the time they're 20 or 21, etc...
    Just because MeFites sniffed out KayCee years ago doesn't mean people should start piling on sansgras now as if she definitely is a fraud, especially when it isn't confirmed she's fake.
    If she does turn out to be a real person, some comments here have been rather cruel.
    posted by aielen at 1:40 PM on March 10, 2008


    Oops, posted that before I saw cortex's latest comment.
    posted by aielen at 1:41 PM on March 10, 2008


    WITCH! BURN HER!!!
    posted by item at 1:42 PM on March 10, 2008


    WITCH! BURN HER!!!

    Dad, leave mom alone.
    posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:49 PM on March 10, 2008 [4 favorites]


    Brandon, you're -

    Nope, not gonna do it.
    posted by yhbc at 1:59 PM on March 10, 2008


    "So what did ever become of unowen?"

    Changed name to avecdubeurre, now posts in anti-ana forums.
    posted by mr_crash_davis at 2:00 PM on March 10, 2008 [14 favorites]


    MeFites should be required to post name, rank, serial number, street address and valid phone number.
    posted by Cranberry at 2:02 PM on March 10, 2008


    dashing?
    posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:02 PM on March 10, 2008


    Now that is funny, mr_crash.
    posted by Cranberry at 2:03 PM on March 10, 2008


    Re-reading that Kaycee Nicole thread is really interesting—especially seeing how forcefully people defended the idea that Kaycee was a real person.
    posted by grouse at 2:03 PM on March 10, 2008


    Or the fact that the first comment in the thread was essentially "Hey it doesn't matter if it is true or not, her story really touched a lot of people." To all the kids out there: yes truth does matter. It always matters if it is true or not. Cause if it isn't true then it is a lie. And if you believe it then you are a chump. You don't want to be chumps do you kids? Okay then, listen to your old uncle ND¢ and remember: only you can prevent lying internet attention whores.
    posted by ND¢ at 2:12 PM on March 10, 2008 [3 favorites]


    This thread changed my life.

    -1 HP
    +1 stamina
    posted by blue_beetle at 2:23 PM on March 10, 2008 [2 favorites]


    I thought the latest research indicated that having occasional lying internet attention whores on a regular basis are actually beneficial to the internet as a whole, because the resulting fires are relatively small and burn away the underbrush of the internet before it accumulates to a dangerous level.
    posted by yhbc at 2:26 PM on March 10, 2008 [9 favorites]


    should have said "the resulting flameouts"
    posted by yhbc at 2:28 PM on March 10, 2008


    Yeah, that would have been better.
    posted by ND¢ at 2:31 PM on March 10, 2008


    "I'm silently flipping out, that's why."

    REAL ULTIMATE POWER!
    posted by klangklangston at 2:34 PM on March 10, 2008


    sansgras turned me into a newt!
    posted by everichon at 2:42 PM on March 10, 2008


    Sansgras, this is what people are concerned about.
    posted by Class Goat at 2:56 PM on March 10, 2008


    What about pro-Ana's Salsa? That shit is awesome.
    posted by liet at 3:06 PM on March 10, 2008


    Fuck.

    At least books and movies usually have resolution of some kind.
    posted by kbanas at 3:09 PM on March 10, 2008


    I'm anti-ana. Does that make me kata? What a downer.
    posted by mumkin at 3:23 PM on March 10, 2008 [3 favorites]


    I've read all of the "evidence" enumerated in both this thread and the one on the Green and I honestly don't think it's a fake. If it turns out to be fake I will feel horribly stupid and be just a little more cynical, but that's okay.

    I mean, the I'm claiming to be 20 vs. I'm 20 spiel just seems like pure attribution. If someone accused you of doing something, would you not repeat the same verb in your denial in order to emphasize the difference between the accusation and your perceived reality?

    As for the dating history gap - there's a three month gap between when sansgras claimed to have never been in a relationship, and when she mentioned having dated two guys casually. Is dating in the span of three months so totally inconceivable or are AskMe threads supposed to exist in a splice of time that never moves forward? She did mention being interested in a guy in one of the previous Psycho!Father!ZOMG! threads, talked about the same guy in the second thread, and mentioned the subsequent breakup a few weeks later in the same thread. Maybe it's just me, but I see nothing fishy there.

    The username one is the most damning, to me, but I can totally see "sansgras" being considered a nice, 'sophisticated' but personally important name. Participation in the same LJ group is sketchy as LJ doesn't allow you to use old account names, but it could very well have been sans_gras or sansgras[insertnumberhere]. Given the amount of vitriol Beth ended up eliciting, I think it would've been safe to say that Beth would've been smart enough to choose a different username for further drama. I mean, if this is all invented, the degree of drama and the style of writing indicates that the OP is not entirely stupid. Having been caught under sansgras, posting as sansgras again somewhere else is just... I dunno. inconceivable.
    posted by Phire at 3:24 PM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    If you travel far enough around going kata, you end up coming back to your original position from the ana side, mumkin.
    posted by Meatbomb at 3:27 PM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    I do feel like people jump to conclude they're being trolled online more quickly than necessary...

    Re-reading that Kaycee Nicole thread is really interesting—especially seeing how forcefully people defended the idea that Kaycee was a real person.

    I never got to the point where it became clear that it was a hoax. I "know" it was a hoax because I've heard that it was eventually discovered to be, but in reading through it now, I got bored of looking through history before I hit the part of the thread where the smoking gun comes out - and there are way too many people in the beginning part of the thread jumping to conclusions, claiming it's obviously fake based on flimsy things like who registered the domains or whether she used a PO box or had a street address, or just what "seemed wrong" about this or that.

    Seems to me that's what's happening here, which isn't to say it would be impossible that again there would be some sort of elaborate hoax that will eventually come to light, but at this stage - chill out, people. It's a)not that important b)not really your business and c)we have no real evidence one way or another at this point.

    (PS - anyone able to point me to the bit of the thread where "Kaycee" is actually outed?)
    posted by mdn at 3:29 PM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    I've been following her story on AskMe for a while because it won my sympathy

    This is why that thread should be deleted regardless of whether sansgras is for real or not: AskMe is not for storytelling or constructing one's very own snowflaky telenovela; it's for asking and answering specific questions. Sometimes extended narrative is required in order to provide context, but all too often, it's just attention whoring logorrhea.
    posted by FelliniBlank at 3:34 PM on March 10, 2008 [6 favorites]


    What would these kind of people discuss on a dedicated pro-ana forum?

    dios -- check out the story of Sara [video | 8:18] from PBS Frontline's recent documentary Growing Up Online.
    posted by ericb at 3:37 PM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    mdn, basically here is where any doubt is removed.
    posted by grouse at 3:37 PM on March 10, 2008


    The mob mentality demonstrated in this thread is disappointing.

    "When trying to point out differences between what she claims and what Beth claims, she used the words 'I am claiming'! BURN HER!"

    "It's because of people who behave like we're assuming that she's behaving that no one on the internet can be trusted! BURN HER!"

    "You joined MeFi within a month of her joining MeFi, and have posted in threads that she has posted in! BURN HER!"

    Ugh.
    posted by Flunkie at 3:38 PM on March 10, 2008


    Flunkie, I think that last bit was an attempt to show how members who lie beget paranoia that spins out of control. Essentially, it was a device to show prefpara why the truth of sansgras' words matters in a very real sense, not an actual attempt to bring her down as well.
    posted by donnagirl at 3:46 PM on March 10, 2008

    Flunkie, I think that last bit was an attempt to show how members who lie beget paranoia that spins out of control.
    Good.
    posted by Flunkie at 3:50 PM on March 10, 2008


    I thought it was 'Stat.' Unless "Stet" is a new medication or something.

    She corrected herself already. Also, I prefer to think she was saying that switching to a Stetson (from a fedora, natch) would somehow help.


    Except that Stetson actually makes fedoras. Therefore cortex and languagehat MUST BE MIKO'S SOCKPUPPETS.
    posted by oneirodynia at 3:55 PM on March 10, 2008


    That's ridiculous, oneirodynia, and I'll tell you why in detail as soon as I get back from my talk on The History of Cussin' over at the American Folk Music Museum.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 3:59 PM on March 10, 2008 [4 favorites]


    "I mean, the I'm claiming to be 20 vs. I'm 20 spiel just seems like pure attribution."

    My snark was pretty much just snark; I don't have a real opinion on her veracity. I just thought it was funny to be, like, "This pathological liar claimed to be Batman. I, not a pathological liar, am claiming to be The Punisher."
    posted by klangklangston at 4:04 PM on March 10, 2008 [8 favorites]


    MetaFilter: My snark was pretty much just snark

    I have a compulsive need to construct these taglines. They aren't even funny anymore. Please help.
    posted by grouse at 4:18 PM on March 10, 2008


    Metafilter: I have a compulsive need to construct these taglines.

    There, grouse, if that didn't cure you, you're beyond helping.
    posted by donnagirl at 4:22 PM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Metafilter: you're beyond helping
    posted by mr_crash_davis at 4:28 PM on March 10, 2008


    Metafilter: a compulsive need to grouse.
    posted by oneirodynia at 4:46 PM on March 10, 2008


    I got my masters in 25 weeks.
    posted by parmanparman at 4:46 PM on March 10, 2008


    No, I don't.

    FWIW, I wasn't trying to be snide or anything, but it seemed silly to post the things I'd posted and not give you the opportunity to say, one way or the other.

    Really, it's just that I don't think she's lying, and I do think that some of the things that people have said about her could really hurt her and are not justified by the possibility that her posts are fake.

    I've no idea whether she's really Beth or not. As I said, it's not that important to me. I thought that the things she wrote in her post could be true, but they could just as easily be the work of someone who spends way too much time in their own head due to the lack of a satisfying life -- which would be typical of somebody who fit the proposed profile, but should in no way be taken as confirmatory.

    I guess on reflection though, I agree with you totally. If she is who she says she is, it's a horrible thing to have happen to you. And if she is who she's accused of being, it's not very nice either.

    Not one of our proudest moments, I suspect.
    posted by PeterMcDermott at 4:47 PM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    I'm not convinced she's a fake and I'm sorry she left.

    If she was a fake the harm she did was minimal. If she wasn't she no longer has metafilter to run things by, and I think that's possibly a pretty big harm to her. I hope I'm wrong.

    I have used metafilter and other online groups for major support when I didn't feel like I could trust the perceptions of the people in my immediate circle. Losing that resource would have been a significant loss.
    posted by small_ruminant at 4:53 PM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Thanks, not_on_display. Exactly. Oh great god of game theory, guide my typing hands. So to speak. Sansgras seems a bit fishy to me too, but I'm not worried. I think the question, even if were completely genuine, would warrant good advice; therefore I will advise as if it is genuine. We can do harm by giving crap advice to a genuine case, and we can't do harm (in fact we can even do some good) by giving good advice to a liar. It's not impossible that someone could have a similar situation come up--hell, I was somewhat like the guy in the question myself, some years ago--and actually do what the question form page suggests, ie search the site for similar questions.

    To me, a good answer is what will most help the OP, given the facts presented. If you want to differ from the facts as presented in a question when giving your advice, because you think the person's kidding themselves, or you think the motivations of another person mentioned in the question are different from what the questioner thinks, or you think the proposed course of action is a spectacularly bad idea, that's entirely fair, but you should say so. I've done all of these, and I've taken the other side of the argument with people who are doing all of these. In the end they won't necessarily take anyone's advice; you don't "win" if they do (well, no more than a faint glow of satisfaction). The point is, different, well-argued points of view will help the person make up their own mind.

    Personally I find the relationship threads to be among the most interesting on AskMeFi, because of the scope for answers they provide. Usually they amount to an ethical question, which is something I personally enjoy thinking about, and usually there isn't any objectively correct answer, although in many cases there'll be a unanimous consensus. If you don't like them, don't participate.

    (Same goes for knee-jerk DTMFAers. I wonder sometimes if people say to them "I've been a bit concerned about my boyfriend ..." and they jump in with "FOR GOD'S SAKE DUMP HIM!" before the questioner finishes ... "as he's been in bed three days getting over the flu." I fear for some of you people, I really do.)

    So anyway, what to do, what to do. I vote for further investigation. I suggest sansgras meet up in some public place with a generally liked and trusted New Yorker MetaFilterite or two, preferably female with a genial and motherly manner, who will report back to us that either: (a) no-one showed up, and they had a coffee and read a book, or chatted for an hour or so if there were two of them; (b) sansgras is a whackjob who looks like the grandchild of Uncle Dirty run through the Comic-Book-Guy-Izer filter; (c) sansgras is real; (d) sansgras is sort of real, with some exaggerations and some omissions.

    Sansgras, are you willing? Any willing representatives to form the Committee of Concerned MetaFilterites?
    posted by aeschenkarnos at 5:00 PM on March 10, 2008


    Therefore cortex and languagehat MUST BE MIKO'S SOCKPUPPETS.

    I am Miko's sockpuppet and I'M PROUD OF IT.
    posted by languagehat at 5:03 PM on March 10, 2008


    I'm not convinced she's a fake and I'm sorry she left.

    She hasn't left in the "account disabled" sense. TPS and jessamyn were talking about another thread and another user, if that's where you got that impression.
    posted by CKmtl at 5:05 PM on March 10, 2008


    maybe there has just been a terrible dearth of 20 year olds with an interesting combination of advanced degrees and a complete lack of common sense in my life

    I have known one, and I have to say (given that obviously representative sample), it really does seem to lead to a complete lack of common sense, and really weirdly messed up socialization. The person I knew was not nearly so bad as sansgras appears/is claiming to be, but I could see it as possible with a different family situation.

    I do think sansgras is likely to be fake, and I do not think she should be deleted without some kind of actual evidence (which seems like it's not going to come unless she provides it). Her questions, presuming they continue after this MeTa, would probably go way over the top eventually if fake, since they certainly seem to be heading in that direction, so we will know.
    posted by advil at 5:08 PM on March 10, 2008


    Any willing representatives to form the Committee of Concerned MetaFilterites?

    No, and I think it's a terrible idea. I certainly don't have any desire to play therapist and/or detective for the amusement of the Metafilter community; what sane person would? And why would sansgras have any interest in such a meeting? She doesn't owe us anything.
    posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 5:10 PM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Aw, Pink, I was going to suggest I go get a matronly wig and play the part.
    posted by nobody at 5:14 PM on March 10, 2008


    Never mind- I fully endorse nobody for the job. He is not female, but he is well-liked with a genial and motherly manner.
    posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 5:15 PM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    So are we all just hanging around in here waiting for Godot a mod to come and clear it all up for us?
    posted by jokeefe at 5:18 PM on March 10, 2008


    a band composed entirely of divorced dads : Inner-Child Support

    Actually, the (metal) band composed entirely of divorced dads is called Visitation Rites. Sorry.
    posted by wemayfreeze at 5:19 PM on March 10, 2008 [10 favorites]


    ThePinkSuperhero: Meanwhile, what happened here?
    Yeah, how come it has a favorite. I thought they disappeared from deleted threads?
    posted by tellurian at 5:25 PM on March 10, 2008


    So are we all just hanging around in here waiting for Godot a mod to come and clear it all up for us?

    Here you go.
    posted by scody at 5:27 PM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    I agree with TPS, and I would be *profoundly* weirded out at this point if I were sansgras. She's asked us a couple of questions. Yes, a few things don't quite add up but she hasn't asked us for money or favors or anything out of line. If you don't feel like answering her questions because they're relationshipfilter or dramawhoring, don't.

    And, frankly, I think some of her earlier questions (EVEN IF she is not who she claims to be) are still valuable additions to the community for some potential future person in a bad/abusive situation who needs help.

    I've been in some really weird, fucked-up situations where I have fully expected my *friends*, much less people on the internet, to call bullshit and accuse me of being a pathological liar when I was just naive and in way over my head. Life is weird. Life is fucked-up. Sometimes it's fucked-up like the plot of some crazy soap opera, and sometimes we contribute to that (god knows I have at times). It doesn't mean that someone in this weird, fucked-up situation doesn't need help and advice.

    But being asked to show up to prove your veracity? What, does she need to bring report cards too? Transcripts? W2s?

    I don't know if she's real. I don't know if she's fake. If she's fake, we've protected nobody from her--roll eyes, move on. If she's real, we have absolutely done her a disservice. If I were in her shoes, I'd now be very very wary of reaching out for help - and I think that's the last thing she needs.
    posted by fuzzbean at 5:29 PM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    ThePinkSuperhero I certainly don't have any desire to play therapist and/or detective for the amusement of the Metafilter community; what sane person would?

    *shrug* I would. That may or may not be an answer to your question, though. :)

    Again, it's cost/risk/benefit. Checking out the story costs an hour, tops, and provides an answer which, if not absolutely definitive, at least adds a significant amount of validity to one or the other possible outcomes. If two go along, it's an hour spent in moderately entertaining company. It's reasonable to be a little concerned about your personal safety, so meet somewhere public. Ask her to provide the contact phone number, and ring her from a public phone or one with a barred number. Worst case, a troll now knows what you look like.

    I think "genial and motherly" 'cos that sort of person, if sansgras is genuine, is the sort of person sansgras is best off talking to. If she's not genuine, she's best off talking to a psychiatrist, but is extremely unlikely to show up.

    Never mind- I fully endorse nobody for the job. He is not female, but he is well-liked with a genial and motherly manner.

    Sounds good. The main attributes here are willingness, curiosity, being easy to talk to, and not convinced either way.
    posted by aeschenkarnos at 5:38 PM on March 10, 2008


    "I certainly don't have any desire to play therapist and/or detective for the amusement of the Metafilter community;"

    I'd be the pornographer for the group, except that none of you have sent me naked pictures or given much notice of interest in seeing my wang.

    Which is, I'm grieved to admit, not all that impressive.
    posted by klangklangston at 5:39 PM on March 10, 2008


    "I've been in some really weird, fucked-up situations where I have fully expected my *friends*, much less people on the internet, to call bullshit and accuse me of being a pathological liar when I was just naive and in way over my head."

    BACK TO BACK MOVIES NO ONE COULD DO THAT! These double features are a sham!
    posted by klangklangston at 5:40 PM on March 10, 2008


    OKAY, klang, we'll have another one! *sheesh*

    I have 300! And Gladiator! C'mon over!
    posted by fuzzbean at 5:43 PM on March 10, 2008


    Finally. You comin' Friday? Also, likely foursquare on Sat pm
    posted by klangklangston at 5:49 PM on March 10, 2008


    I mostly agree with fuzzbean, actually.

    fuzzbean I agree with TPS, and I would be *profoundly* weirded out at this point if I were sansgras.
    She started off that way. Her situation, if genuine, is distinctly weird and messed up.

    But being asked to show up to prove your veracity? What, does she need to bring report cards too? Transcripts? W2s?
    It's unresolved whether she needs to prove her veracity at all; plenty of us are happy to continue advising her, taking her questions at face value. Is it important to her? Whether she's real or not is clearly important to some people is it so important to them that they will drop crap advice or snarky remarks in her question thread?

    I'd say it's up to her to decide whether to prove her reality or not, understanding that if she doesn't, there will be nastiness in the threads, perhaps even to the point that it compromises her ability to get good advice.

    If she does decide to prove her reality, anything short of showing up somewhere and speaking to a person whose own veracity is unquestioned, wouldn't do. Were I a sock-puppeteer, I could photocopy or photoshop up ID papers, I could find an appropriate photo, I could--were I female of the appropriate age--even keep up my pretence on the phone. Being seen, in person, and spoken to, is (to my mind) vastly greater proof.

    So if she does show up to speak to someone, it might as well actually be someone it would be useful, beneficial, at the very least pleasant, to speak to.
    posted by aeschenkarnos at 5:50 PM on March 10, 2008


    MY MODS, MY MODS, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN THIS THREAD?

    There isn't anything to say. Preliminary investigations revealed nothing fishy and beyond that it's all speculation which I can't say much about. I don't have much of a fertile imagination vis a vis scammers and ways to prevaricate just closely enough to be believed. My life is actually complex and interesting enough so I don't have a ton of free cycles to ruminate on the mystery lives of others and I personally have NO IDEA what to make of this. That said, I'm sure we'll take a much closer look at future posts by prefpara ans sansgras just to make sure we're not missing anything.

    Then again, I gave un owen $20 so maybe I'm just a sap, but I'm happier being a sap than someone who doesn't trust anyone.
    posted by jessamyn (staff) at 5:57 PM on March 10, 2008 [11 favorites]


    Friday probably yes, unless I'm in Big Sur visiting a friend at Esalen. Transmit more info about Saturday, plz.
    posted by fuzzbean at 5:59 PM on March 10, 2008


    Our house. Informal. No big deal. I'll put you on the foursquare email list.
    posted by klangklangston at 6:03 PM on March 10, 2008


    Metafilter: You're beyond helping.
    posted by Dr. Curare at 6:16 PM on March 10, 2008


    But being asked to show up to prove your veracity? What, does she need to bring report cards too? Transcripts? W2s?

    This "she should prove she exists IRL" stuff is creeping me out, too. We answer an awful lot of crazy questions from an awful lot of (sometimes crazy) people without demanding that these individuals personally interview with An Established MeFite.
    posted by desuetude at 6:23 PM on March 10, 2008


    On the subject of sap:

    I'm as cynical as the next guy, but can I just step up and say that anorexia is a terrible affliction, and should be treated as such?

    Thanks.
    posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 6:24 PM on March 10, 2008


    aeschenkarnos: "It's unresolved whether she needs to prove her veracity at all; plenty of us are happy to continue advising her, taking her questions at face value."

    That's 90% of the problem right there. As I mentioned earlier, it's a problem of both supply and demand.
    posted by meehawl at 6:29 PM on March 10, 2008


    Can I ask: what's the deal with un owen?
    posted by supercrayon at 6:38 PM on March 10, 2008


    I'd say it's up to her to decide whether to prove her reality or not, understanding that if she doesn't, there will be nastiness in the threads, perhaps even to the point that it compromises her ability to get good advice.

    Wrong again. Anyone who posts a question that follows the guidelines of this site deserves helpful answers, whether people believe that person is "real" or not. Nastiness is neither allowed nor encouraged.

    And p.s., I've met enough of you all in real life to know that you're ALL CRAZY.
    posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 6:39 PM on March 10, 2008 [4 favorites]


    In my fertile imagination, the true poster behind sansgras is this poster's kid. Yes, go ahead and name me the O. Henry of the internet. You know you want to.

    To toss in my two bits - sansgras' posts have been red flagged for me since I first read the cell phone post, at which point I went back and read some of her other posts, at which point I made a mental note to watch for more posts from her. I promptly forgot my mental note (do we have a greasemonkey script to do this?) so I'm glad it came back up. I think at the very least there is some serious bullshit being dished out here. Her tone reminds me of young teenagers' fiction - even when supremely well-written, there's something that doesn't feel true (apart from the occasional exceptional young writer).

    When people try to game internet forums or communities, it's like the pieces look like they're the right shape but when you put them together, the picture doesn't make much sense. Back in the day I knew a few precocious teenagers who liked to game forums to see what kind of pull they had over people, what people would believe. These questions have that sort of feel to them - of testing the waters of what people will buy into. I'd give sansgras the same advice I gave about the kid in the question I linked above - take a fiction workshop, learn to express your personal truth rather than poorly-executed fiction, and if by some rare, odd, crazy chance you are what you claim? Keep such crazy, longwinded, hard-to-swallow drama on LJ.
    posted by SassHat at 6:41 PM on March 10, 2008 [4 favorites]


    how much time & energy did people spend here discussing whether or not to deprive a suspicious noob of five whole bucks?
    posted by UbuRoivas at 6:48 PM on March 10, 2008


    I am a doctor of metaphysics. I bought my doctorate from the Church of Universal Life for $40. Took about two weeks.
    posted by Astro Zombie at 6:59 PM on March 10, 2008


    I promptly forgot my mental note (do we have a greasemonkey script to do this?)

    Yes, we do.
    posted by Partial Law at 7:00 PM on March 10, 2008 [2 favorites]


    I am Miko's sockpuppet and I'M PROUD OF IT.

    I have a short list of users here I'd let control me with a hand up my ass, too. You mostly know who you are. Except for Astro Zombie. I haven't MeMailed him about that yet, mostly because of the restraining orders.
    posted by middleclasstool at 7:14 PM on March 10, 2008


    ThePinkSuperhero Wrong again.

    So ... is it wrong to be nasty to me, and then prissily decry nastiness in general? :)

    Anyway we're talking policy, not fact, it's "disagree" or "agree", not "wrong" or "right". But even if we were discussing the fact of whether people will be nasty to a person of dubious reality, I'm not wrong, they will. Before one of the mods came along and vacuumed it up there were callouts in the thread, and from the callouts, some nastiness, and now there is some here. If she posts another question, I will bet that it would get a few answers in before some clown pops up with a "HAHA! YOU FAKER! BAN THE WITCH! TO METATALK WITH THIS! I LINK MY THREAD AT THEE!". Will you take that bet?

    Anyone who posts a question that follows the guidelines of this site deserves helpful answers, whether people believe that person is "real" or not.
    Totally.

    Nastiness is neither allowed nor encouraged.
    Bah, those kind of policies are always stated in those kind of terms. They're up there with corporate vision statements about striving for excellence and innovating in qualitatively valid paradigms. Everything said should be considered on its own merits. Do you want your comment deleted for dropping a mildly nasty "Wrong again." clanger on my head? Do you want this comment of mine deleted for calling you prissy, a mildly nasty term, in return? Nonsense, we are not delicate little flowers.

    Some nastiness--and as the giver or the target, we tend to lose sight of the fact that it can be extremely amusing to other people to see it, if it's well-written and apropros--can provoke intelligent discussion, because it makes people care. It makes them write back in detail. The grit of the pearl. I've been in some very interesting discussions that would not have happened had there been no nastiness tolerated at all.

    Now, as for sansgras's situation and my mere suggestion of meeting someone trusted as a means of (a) meeting someone relatively decent--something her life frankly lacks--to get some IRL advice; and (b) establishing reflected trust, I will explain again that I don't think it's necessary or that she should as any kind of condition for continuing to post here.

    I present it as a potential method for being believed real, if that is important. To some folks, it is. To some, it isn't.
    posted by aeschenkarnos at 7:15 PM on March 10, 2008


    I am thinking one P.I. just won't cut it. This demands a buddy cop team.
    posted by boubelium at 7:22 AM


    That's crazy talk—they'd be as different as night and day, and believe you me, the only thing worse them making them mad would be making them partners!

    posted by blueberry at 7:27 PM on March 10, 2008 [4 favorites]


    Saying you were wrong isn't nasty. If I called you an ugly pickle-face banana nose, that would be nasty. Saying you're wrong is just my opinion. That fact that it hurts your feelings that people aren't wowed by your idea doesn't make the disagreement mean.

    I think it's a dangerous idea to encourage real-life meetings as some sort of trust exercise- it would make the community vulnerable to same sort of exploitation that detective threads hope to expose and/or prevent. It may be important to some members of this community to feel sure that all the screennames they're interacting with are each a separate, "real" person, but I doubt it is important to the overall health of the community, as long as all community members behave within the guidelines set forth by the community. If it were important, meetups would have been made mandatory long ago, no?

    On the other hand, if we're going to go forth with your idea, we could be "mathowie's angels". Which could be fun, depending on the outfits.
    posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:29 PM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    (tiny further example of J-P interaction: a good friend who's largely P-ish was dating a hardcore J girl for a year or two - very organised, driven & scheduled, both in personal & professional life. you could visibly see her stress levels go through the roof when anything would happen to change her day: "But I have to go home within the next fifteen minutes so I can do my 10km training run, because the half-marathon is only SIX MONTHS AWAY!!" - it's a really fundamental personality difference that's well worth paying attention to, because you generally can't force somebody to go against their natural preferences)
    posted by UbuRoivas at 7:37 PM on March 10, 2008


    there are way too many people in the beginning part of the thread jumping to conclusions, claiming it's obviously fake based on flimsy things like who registered the domains or whether she used a PO box or had a street address, or just what "seemed wrong" about this or that.

    Seems to me that's what's happening here


    yep.
    knowledge = justified true belief, not spurious reasoning + lucky guess (guess early and often!)

    Then again, the most annoying thing is when someone suspects something about you for the dumbest, completely wrong reason, but their conclusion is in fact correct. And is the point of MetaTalk not to annoy?
    posted by Durn Bronzefist at 7:48 PM on March 10, 2008


    supercrayon: Can I ask: what's the deal with un owen?

    See this MeTa thread, then this one, for the whole glorious two-day two-part trainwreck.
    posted by hangashore at 7:48 PM on March 10, 2008 [12 favorites]


    On the other hand, if we're going to go forth with your idea, we could be "mathowie's angels". Which could be fun, depending on the outfits.

    I see lots of leather.
    And the GADGETS! Must have high-tech shiny, sexy gadgets.
    posted by goshling at 7:48 PM on March 10, 2008


    Well, I can't help but note that, from now on, when the name skalitenko comes to mind, the word ballsy will, too. And considering what's for sale, I'm thinking it's Mission Accomplished for the good doctor. Now, that's marketing.
    posted by y2karl at 7:58 PM on March 10, 2008


    little help, mods? that small text above was meant to be in an askme about how to plan & commit to stuff. (thought you'd deleted it for being too chatty)
    posted by UbuRoivas at 8:01 PM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    I'm a bit confused by some of the comments here that suggest we should be ashamed of ourselves and that we should rather provide the OP with helpful answers regardless of any doubts over the veracity of her situation. A lot of people have been doing exactly that in the thread triggering this one (73 comments) and in her previous questions (87 and 51 comments respectively). No snarks there (as far as I could tell only one in the current thread, which was swiftly deleted). There's plenty of snark here but that's par for the course.

    Some of the advice given in all the other threads sansgras claims to have taken to heart, some she has ignored. In the current thread some people reiterate some of those suggestions she has not followed (yet) and offer new ones.

    The tenor of all those threads is kind, supportive and concerned. The advice given is sound, practical and generous even. I don't see any reason for any answerers involved in these threads to be ashamed of themselves, on the contrary. Particularly because some people may have harboured the doubts we are discussing here now.
    posted by =^^= at 8:03 PM on March 10, 2008


    I suppose you could say I'm the one who opened this can of worms by collating some of the seeming inconsistencies in the posting history of sansgras in her AskMe thread. I didn't see anything major, just looking for clarification of a few points. I think she answered those, both in her thread, as well as this one. More about that in a moment.

    I was a veteran of the Kaycee Nicole fraud, in fact I was right in the middle of it. I was one of the dupes who was regularly communicating with Debbie, at the time known as Kaycee Nicole, about her battle with leukemia. I was completely and utterly sucked in by the charade. I was, and always have been a very gullible person. When the fraud was uncovered by the MeFi police, I was stunned.

    You might say I learned a lesson that week about the value of Internet cynicism. My BS meter ran full boar for several years afterward. I have mellowed again somewhat recently, but I still keep a wary eye out for things that just don't add up or seem inconsistent. Such was the case, seemingly for me, with the various threads opened by sansgras on AskMe.

    I have been a long time lurker on MetaFilter. I know most of the mythology of the site. I rarely post, most of my posts and comments were made back in the early days in 2000 and 2001, but I still spend time hanging out on the blue and the grey. I just recently have become more interested in the green, primarily because of a few alcoholism threads that I have some experience with.

    Last night I saw a thread appear in the relationshipfilter section of AskMe and the comment count kept going up and up so I got curious. Like many others have noticed, it read like a train wreck, and on going back through sangras' posting history, so did some of her other AskMe's. I certainly felt sympathy for the girl's seeming plight, but there just were a few things that didn't add up. I even wondered if these long rambling AskMe posts were part of her graduate research project. You know the feeling. So I posted about it before I went to bed last night.

    Now back to sansgras. As I said above, I think she satisfactorily responded to all the inconsistencies I noticed and even offered to speak privately to anyone who asked about her graduate school research. So I took her up on that offer this evening. She graciously responded. I promised to keep that correspondence confidential and will honor that. I will say, though, that it isn't about social online communities and for now sansgras is passing my cynicism meter. I thank sansgras for responding to me, and I sincerely hope she will continue to use the resources of AskMe to help her find the answers she needs to live a successful and happy life.
    posted by netbros at 8:03 PM on March 10, 2008 [6 favorites]


    This place is one big pile of crazy ass electronic beans on a big shiny internet plate. And served with a heaping steaming side of Too Much Free Time.
    posted by tkchrist at 8:06 PM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Fake. Burn it with fire, or at least stop giving it attention.
    posted by obiwanwasabi at 8:13 PM on March 10, 2008


    If MeFi is a city, what building have I just wandered into?
    posted by not_on_display at 8:13 PM on March 10, 2008


    If MeFi is a city, what building have I just wandered into?

    Why, the lunatic asylum of course. The trick is being able to pick the patients from the staff.
    posted by goshling at 8:19 PM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Also, the claims of early graduate dregrees and suchlike reminds me of un owen. Whatever happened to her?
    posted by CunningLinguist at 10:30 AM on March 10 [+] [!]


    UN Owen is around and posting via her "husband's" account, InnocentBystander. I found this out because they posted virtually identical stories (1, 2) about getting bullied at a young age.
    posted by footnote at 8:19 PM on March 10, 2008 [30 favorites]


    By the way, I liked UN Owen. What did she do wrong besides asking for money?
    posted by footnote at 8:20 PM on March 10, 2008


    I haven't been ignoring this thread, contrary to beliefs. I've been working. Here's my next round of defense....

    Loiseau -- Beth claimed to have FINISHED medical school (she lived in Canada, btw) at 24. She was actually much older (late 20s early 30s) and married, and also claimed to be simultaneously practicing and helping the medically ill in Africa.

    Also-- she was banned from that site, but I never said MY username on that site was Sansgras. I am Sangras here, much like there are many other people on OTHER eating disorder forums (there are many) who also have the same not-so-unique username.

    Klangklangston-- the thing is, our stories are completely different. Her entire web of lies can be found on display on various sites. She was a 30 year old women, married, claimed to be in Africa, claimed to be healthy and sane and was known for offering others her medical 'expertise.' She knew a lot of the members in real life, which is why her saga was so controversial. She was doling out advice, medical and otherwise, to many young, deeply sick, and impressionable girls. She was close to many people and so many people had an emotional investment in her.

    No one ever questioned her, even when she claimed to be in Africa but her IP address was showing Canada, and when people started to (I don't know what prompted it; I wasn't around then), she left. Never answered any questions, just dropped off the face of the internet.

    Now assuming I am her, and knowing that she was aware of all the sites about her, why would I one day register here and post a lengthy question regarding an issue that I was obviously emotionally invested in (that sort of thing tends to be obvious in the writing style), then come back an update the situation with a spin-off question a month later, then post a final question still related to the initial issue, when this is supposedly all a lie and I don't know any of you. Look at my post history. I have no activity aside from my questions. No one knows me. I haven't formed any bonds. The kind of emotional manipulation Beth pulled only works when people are emotionally invested in their relationship with you.

    I mean, if this is all just a big story on my part, why not post something at least somewhat related to her story? She was much older than me, self-sufficient, married, a professional. Now she's become exceptionally creative writer and is pretending to be a girl who lives in a completely different country with a completely different story? My posts were pretty emotional for pure lies made up on a whim to play tricks on people I don't know and haven't tried to form bonds with.

    Iconomy-- I used "claiming" facetiously because I'm obviously not being taken seriously. You're reading too much into my posts.


    Monday -- I'm telling the truth. I've only responded to the people who have said something so outlandish or verifiable (e.g., 'I wasn't aware one year master's programs exist') that I feel like I have to say something. I've read every post here. I'm pretty sure I haven't avoided ANY questions. If someone is simply calling me a liar, there's no need to respond to that.

    Desuetude-- Thank you! I can understand why people think my homelife sitution is unbelievable because it is. But the education stuff has been frustrating because I suppose it can seem like something remarkable to those outside of the field, but those in the field know damn well that an SMP is nothing special. Basically a continuation of undergrad, a booster for those needing a GPA increase. Not exactly you're typical graduate program in terms of intensity.

    Miko-- Uhh... I contradicted myself HOW? I have never used this username anywhere but HERE. I initially said I hadn't dated because I don't consider going to a cafe when you're just there chat for a bit and hookup afterward dating. Maybe they were dates. Does it matter? The point is, I've never had a serious exclusive or open relationship with anyone. I've had casual sex and the requisite dinner/drinks/coffee/whatever, but have never gone out with the intention of getting to know someone and possibly forming a serious relationship with someone.

    Scody -- I was mostly joking about the Bobby/Whitney comment. I tend to involuntarily go for similarly damaged people, so the comment seemed appropriate.


    My educational background: as I mentioned in my second question response, I graduated high school early at age 15 after spending two years in HS. Not because I was a prodigy, but because I was just given credits for classes I never took from my shady private school. From there I attended the local, nothing-special, state university where I finished my degree in four years at age 19. Starting that summer I enrolled in the one year SMP at the same university, and finished at age 20. Ta da.


    Prefpara -- "Wouldn't it be terrible if the final lesson she took away from this was that she needs to make sure never to open up to people about her problems because they'll disbelieve her, jump all over her for lacking a buddha-like calm in the face of parental rejection, and mock her sincere pain and her fumbling attempts to deal with it?"

    Not trying to pull the pity card, but that is it. I was rejected by that loser guy after finally opening up to him. I'm called a liar here. The resonating theme of my life has been my father invalidating my problems. I don't open up and I'm called arrogant. I open up and I'm dramatic and crazy and dishonest and dispicable. I got the objective advice I was looking for before this mess started, but will a continue to be hesitant to open up to people? You betcha.

    Aeschenkarnos-- I'd love nothing more than to prove to everyone that I am real and not some 30 year old woman. I just don't know how to prove my story. Unfortunately my life history isn't googleable save for my questions here. At the end of the day, it isn't important. I got my advice. I'm working toward the goals I've established for myself. I'm not going to change any minds.


    **I also wanted to say that I made an appointment with a therapist this morning, and he actually talked me into speaking to him today. We had a two hour session and he reiterated much of the advice I was given for all 3 of my questions. Someone used the analogy that the guy I was dating has broken edges and so do I, but they just don't fit. Interestingly, he used the same analogy. We have another appointment tomorrow, which I'm looking forward to. He's very direct much like the posters who have offered me advice here, and I know that's exactly what I need.
    posted by sansgras at 8:21 PM on March 10, 2008 [4 favorites]


    Saying you were wrong isn't nasty.
    Nonsense, wrong once again, as you oh so often are. Do you practice wrongness before a mirror daily? Read Great Books of Wrong to improve your wrongitude? Enter your many errors into the Wrongness Machine to produce new variations of wrong? Live on wrong bean sandwiches? Surely no-one could be so wrong on purpose, you must have made it up!

    Alternatively:

    Look, I do see your point, and I don't dispute for a second your right to say that. But to tell a person they are wrong can be done nastily or kindly or neither, it really depends how it's done, and it's up to that person in the end how they take it. I am not incorrect to be mildly irritated, and it is my decision as to whether I let it go, give it back, or try to find a way to make it work for me.

    That fact that it hurts your feelings that people aren't wowed by your idea doesn't make the disagreement mean.
    I'd like to see a definition of nastiness, of the sort "neither allowed nor encouraged", that does not rest on its effect on people's feelings.

    Anyway, that is not the point. This is the point: as a person of unverified reality, if she posts questions, those threads will get unhelpful answers, for that reason. If she doesn't verify her reality, some people will continue to doubt her, and act accordingly; meeting someone is a good way to verify that they are real.

    You seem to be saying both of these assertions are wrong. You may be right; but if you are, why are you right? Will the next question from sansgras be met with nothing but helpfulness? Would meeting known New Yorker members be such an dreadful thing to contemplate, an experience unique in its meaninglessness?

    From the whispers I overhear in here, some of you are organizing a NY meetup. Why not (a) invite sansgras to meet one or more of you, to reassure her that you're maybe vaguely likeable, and that if she went to the meetup, she wouldn't be roasted alive and made into pate de faux sansgras; (b) subject to that, invite her to the meetup? Any and all controversy about the woman rests on the perception that she is not real. If she demonstrates she is real, ipso facto, the controversy ought, in the minds of reasonable folk, disappear.

    Whereas, if she doesn't, she either disappears from our lives or continues to post, in which case the controversy will continue until at some point it becomes clear, even to those disinclined to actively enquire, that she is or is not a faker; or, the mods ruthlessly stamp out any such questioning of her reality to the point where the questioners give up.

    But it's up to her.

    And that's the last on the topic from me. If that meets with a round of "NO! WRONG! WE COULD NEVER, NEVER DO THAT! WHY? THERE IS NO WHY! JUST NO!" ... then, so be it, I will flee from the rays of pink energy and return to my secret lair.
    posted by aeschenkarnos at 8:24 PM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Aha, well, there we go. Welcome again, bona fide sansgras. :)
    posted by aeschenkarnos at 8:28 PM on March 10, 2008


    From the whispers I overhear in here, some of you are organizing a NY meetup.

    Everyone is invited to meetups. sansgras is welcome, just as everyone else on the site is welcome, and I hope everyone who desires to come to one does so, as they are a lot of fun. Please do not misrepresent what meetups are for: they are not a place for people to come so other members can judge them and report back to the site on what they're like, and I wouldn't want people to think so. Real, fake, sock, or shoe, come to a meetup, and your secret is safe with us ;-)
    posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:33 PM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    UN Owen is around and posting via her "husband's" account, InnocentBystander. I found this out because they posted virtually identical stories (1, 2) about getting bullied at a young age.

    Huh, that is odd.
    posted by puke & cry at 8:36 PM on March 10, 2008


    Maybe it's time to close this thread and move on?
    posted by nobody at 8:37 PM on March 10, 2008


    I don't live in NYC. :) I'm not opposed to meeting anyone in my area, but I won't post that area out in the open.
    posted by sansgras at 8:38 PM on March 10, 2008


    I think UN Owen should be allowed back. She may be a scammer, but she also coined one of the most memorable phrases of AskMe, one which lives on in the lexicon.

    Also, I believe sansgras.
    posted by footnote at 8:45 PM on March 10, 2008


    sans: best of luck. Sounds like you got a lot of work ahead of you. And stay away from the benzos if you can. (FWIW, I know others who have entered college early and completed combined BS/MS programs. Ignore the feisty MeTanaians--their flung poo isn't real.)
    posted by not_on_display at 8:45 PM on March 10, 2008


    sweet jebus!

    when are you all going to finally realise that sansgras is obviously Ethereal Bligh?

    who the hell else in history could be bothered typing up such excruciatingly verbose comments?
    posted by UbuRoivas at 9:00 PM on March 10, 2008 [2 favorites]


    Someone used the analogy that the guy I was dating has broken edges and so do I, but they just don't fit. Interestingly, he used the same analogy.

    OMG sansgras!
    aeschenkarnos is your therapist! It's the only possible explanation!

    On a more serious note, who are you trying to hide your internet posts from? I assume from your father. If so, I'd be very surprised if he (or your boss or anyone else who knows you personally) couldn't recognize you from your unusual and highly specific educational history. That's one of the things that really struck me as odd, because you keep asserting your masters degree (but not publicly disclosing other identifying traits) as if it gives you some authority or respect. Maybe something to talk to your therapist about. Of course, if you're trying to keep future jobs/universities from easily google searching you, that's another story.
    posted by fermezporte at 9:04 PM on March 10, 2008


    netbros, that was a classy comment.

    I also wanted to say that I made an appointment with a therapist this morning, and he actually talked me into speaking to him today.

    Good. Much more appropriate than using AskMe as your long-term plan. Really. Good luck, stick with it.
    posted by mediareport at 9:11 PM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Please do not misrepresent what meetups are for

    All I'm anticipating is, if she wants, someone reliable could become able to honestly say, on her behalf, "yes, she's real, I'll vouch for that." If you met her, and the next thread she posts gets people saying she's a fake, will you stand stoically by, or would you vouch for her? If you would vouch for her (or for someone else thought to be a faker, but whom you'd met), then I can't really see your problem with what I'm suggesting, or why you think it's a misrepresentation of the purpose of a meetup. Obviously it's not the only or even a major purpose of a meetup. But I'm sure the idea of verification that dubiously real members actually exist crosses the minds of many attendees.
    posted by aeschenkarnos at 9:15 PM on March 10, 2008


    Sangras:

    Man, that was a lot of text for something I already kinda dismissed. Maybe you'd be well-served by a perusal of the problem of solipsism. Anyway, tempted as I may be by my own personal dysfunctions, I won't goad you anymore about this. That you aren't going to be able to prove your identity to me is one of those things that is argumentatively interesting to me, but your actual identity is only academic. So how about we do this some other time, when you're not going to be emotionally responding to mildly-skeptical snark? If not for you, at least for me, so I don't feel like I'm poking at a rabbit in a trap; and those few dregs of the community still reading this, for whom my arguments are often so much less interesting than they are to me.
    posted by klangklangston at 9:18 PM on March 10, 2008


    I've messaged Cortex and gave him my username and password to the message board I mentioned, the same one Beth was banned from.

    Assuming Cortex wants to check it out, he can read my posts, many of which repeat what I've said here, and search to see that Beth/that site's Sansgras is indeed a seperate person from myself.

    This is the only way I can think to prove I am not her. Beyond that, I'm closed with this argument. There is nothing else I can do to convince others that I have been only truthful, and if my efforts are not sufficient, then nothing is.

    Good night.
    posted by sansgras at 9:26 PM on March 10, 2008


    Please do not misrepresent what meetups are for

    Seconded. Everybody knows that meetups are where you send your real-life sockpuppets.
    posted by UbuRoivas at 9:36 PM on March 10, 2008


    What a clusterfuck.
    posted by empath at 9:38 PM on March 10, 2008


    ps footnote, that's good sleuthing. It's interesting how un owen/IB's wife changes the ages and time line to better match her "character"
    posted by fermezporte at 9:40 PM on March 10, 2008


    *looking around for real life sockpuppet*
    Uh-oh, then who is typing this? And who the hell went to a meetup claiming they were me?
    posted by not_on_display at 9:41 PM on March 10, 2008


    OMG sansgras!
    aeschenkarnos is your therapist! It's the only possible explanation!


    Considering that we have all kinds of doctors & lawyers & therapists & veterinarians here, I'm now wondering if anybody's followed the advice to take it to a professional, and ended up consulting one of our resident experts in real life without realising it?
    posted by UbuRoivas at 9:43 PM on March 10, 2008


    And who the hell went to a meetup claiming they were me?

    Did you actually go to one as yourself?!??

    I thought it was de rigeur here to send one of your friends along, after briefing them on some of the recent highlights & controversies.

    Or am I really the only one who does this?
    posted by UbuRoivas at 9:46 PM on March 10, 2008


    I can't believe anyone really cares about this.
    posted by desjardins at 9:52 PM on March 10, 2008


    tellurian: Yeah, how come it has a favorite. I thought they disappeared from deleted threads?

    As I understand it, favorites on a deleted post don't disappear. They are merely never duplicated—as in, on any sort of user activity page—and don't show up anywhere on the site other than the original post and the favorites count on the user profiles (favoritor and favoritee). I believe this holds only for posts, as deleted comments are 'scorched earth'.


    sansgras: I also wanted to say that I made an appointment with a therapist this morning

    If only we could hear from each of them too, those who D'dTMFA! This is good news, sansgras, and I wish you the best.
    posted by carsonb at 9:53 PM on March 10, 2008


    Considering that we have all kinds of doctors & lawyers & therapists & veterinarians here, I'm now wondering if anybody's followed the advice to take it to a professional, and ended up consulting one of our resident experts in real life without realising it?

    Nope, not me. New York's a bit far to commute. :) Anyway, looking for the broken pieces that fit is an old, old metaphor, I claim no originality for it. (And I'm not a therapist.)
    posted by aeschenkarnos at 10:04 PM on March 10, 2008


    I find the thought of attending a meet-up to verify one's existence to be too creepy and intimidating for words. Even if someone did turn up for such a purpose, would you simply take their word that whatever they say is true or would you require further verification? Birth certificate, driver's license, school reports, references, medical certificate?

    I'll take ThePinkSuperhero's word for it when she says everyone is crazy.
    posted by goshling at 10:05 PM on March 10, 2008


    yes, and we use metafilter as our own form of talking therapy.

    that makes perfect sense to me.
    posted by UbuRoivas at 10:26 PM on March 10, 2008


    UN Owen is around and posting via her "husband's" account, InnocentBystander.

    My goodness.
    posted by scody at 10:29 PM on March 10, 2008 [7 favorites]


    oh! the ones who leave are the one's who've finally talked themselves back into sanity!

    occhiblu! jonmc! ethereal bligh! xteraco!

    what's life like outside the asylum?
    posted by UbuRoivas at 10:31 PM on March 10, 2008


    Yeah, whatever. I still think Gratuitous1 and Second Account for Making Jokey Comments were the same person.
    posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 10:33 PM on March 10, 2008


    sansgras: Loiseau -- Beth claimed to have FINISHED medical school (she lived in Canada, btw) at 24. She was actually much older (late 20s early 30s) and married, and also claimed to be simultaneously practicing and helping the medically ill in Africa.

    Just to clarify, not to argue: in the LiveJournal I was referring to (linked from the Encyclopedia Dramatica) she in fact claims to be an MD, 24 and teaching at a university.

    UbuRoivas: when are you all going to finally realise that sansgras is obviously Ethereal Bligh?

    who the hell else in history could be bothered typing up such excruciatingly verbose comments?


    XMLicious.
    posted by loiseau at 10:45 PM on March 10, 2008


    UbuRoivas, a couple of those folks are back.

    So it goes with MetaFilter; you try to leave and it pulls you back in.
    posted by lilywing13 at 10:50 PM on March 10, 2008


    There's a lot of other similarities between InnocentBystander's answers and un owen's, if you get bored enough to look through them. Too many to write off as coincidence you could say. Anyway, I should stop wasting time on that and go to bed.
    posted by puke & cry at 10:51 PM on March 10, 2008


    She may be a scammer, but she also coined one of the most memorable phrases of AskMe, one which lives on in the lexicon.

    Just an aside, and for what little it's worth, but like a lot of stuff we think we made up here, that was an SA Forums catchphrase (and used elsewhere, but I think it came from SA before SA started its sad spiral into internet irrelevance) years before it appeared here.
    posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:59 PM on March 10, 2008 [1 favorite]


    I've messaged Cortex and gave him my username and password to the message board I mentioned, the same one Beth was banned from.

    Yeah, I'm really uncomfortable with this and I'd ask that you change your password immediately. I appreciate the act of openness on your part, but the last thing I want is access to you someone else's account on an unrelated site.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 11:00 PM on March 10, 2008


    UbuRoivas, a couple of those folks are back.

    obviously forgot to keep taking their meds.
    posted by UbuRoivas at 11:06 PM on March 10, 2008


    Plus, Sansgras giving cortex access to one account hardly proves that she isn't responsible for other accounts.
    posted by chudmonkey at 11:09 PM on March 10, 2008


    I'm happier being a sap than someone who doesn't trust anyone

    Jessamyn ftw.
    posted by flabdablet's sock puppet at 11:34 PM on March 10, 2008


    goshling I find the thought of attending a meet-up to verify one's existence to be too creepy and intimidating for words. Even if someone did turn up for such a purpose, would you simply take their word that whatever they say is true or would you require further verification?

    Good grief yes, just take their word. You're not proving anything in a court of law. The stakes are tiny, the consequences of not being believed are just ... not being believed. Incurring the wrath of judgmental personalities. Losing some AskMeFi answerers who otherwise would give useful advice.

    And it's by no means the only reason I suggested it. Sansgras needs to make more friends.

    Can we get an official moderator Declaration of Let's Move On or something? :)
    posted by aeschenkarnos at 11:49 PM on March 10, 2008


    footnote UN Owen is around and posting via her "husband's" account, InnocentBystander. I found this out because they posted virtually identical stories (1, 2) about getting bullied at a young age.

    Give that footnote a gold shield!
    posted by mlis at 11:57 PM on March 10, 2008




    Except for people who can/do go to meetups or have real life friends or acquaintances online (who themselves stand up to scrutiny), the only way we can feel somewhat sure of anyone's "identity" (once it is put under the microscope) is consistency in small things throughout many contributions over time - and possibly across sites. However, this means that there are relatively few people whom we can feel terribly sure about - so we can veer towards mistrusting everyone, or choose to trust everyone until they are proven to be false... or better yet, we can be sensible about how we interact and how much we invest emotionally. If you are touched by a heart-wrenching story and feel moved to offer money or other material support - that would be the time to put on your doubting hat before deciding if it's a great idea; if you are drawn into a personal drama and find yourself spending a lot of time worrying about an online friend, emailing and IMing tons of encouragement and understanding for problems that just don't seem to ever get better - go put on that hat! If someone's contributions seem to reliably sow a lot of drama and division on a site, it might be time to put on the hat and decline to be pulled into the game.

    In other words, it's all pretty much the same in here as it is out there; some people are telling the truth, some are lying to you for fun and profit. Some are not to be trusted alone with your kid, dog, or geranium, and some will go out of their way to help you, just because - and you can almost never tell the former from latter at first sight... but fakers will usually eventually trip up in pretty obvious ways. So all you can do is be alert. Because the world needs more lerts, and it's just fundamentally better than being ajar or aflame, though being abroad can be pretty awesome.
    posted by taz at 12:24 AM on March 11, 2008 [6 favorites]


    yes, exploring abroad can be heaps of fun.
    posted by UbuRoivas at 12:29 AM on March 11, 2008


    Don't forget to bring your chap stick!
    posted by taz at 12:41 AM on March 11, 2008 [2 favorites]


    true. helps prevent the lips from getting too dry.
    posted by UbuRoivas at 12:55 AM on March 11, 2008


    All I wanna do when I wake up in the morning is read about a 24 year-old M.D.
    Pro-ana, Pro-ana,
    Never thought that a girl like you could get your Master's Degree
    Pro-ana

    got nuthin
    posted by davejay at 12:58 AM on March 11, 2008 [1 favorite]


    O pro-ana
    O pro-ana!
    O PRO-ANA
    Sweet Pro-ana!
    O PRO-ANA
    You know you are my friend, yeah
    O PRO-ANA
    And I ain't down here for your money
    I ain't down here for your love
    I ain't down here for your love or money
    I'm down here for your -
    (um, why am i down here again?)
    posted by UbuRoivas at 1:16 AM on March 11, 2008


    I'd just like to say what with this and catching up on the u.n.owen drama this has been the finest day of entertainment I have go out of metafilter in years.

    Yes, I feel dirty now.
    posted by arha at 1:29 AM on March 11, 2008


    Perhaps using the karpman drama triangle would help identify metaphonys a bit quicker, thus saving users ( and admin ) precious metatime that can be used to distract from doing actual worthwhile tasks like the one i'm currently avoiding.
    posted by sgt.serenity at 2:23 AM on March 11, 2008 [3 favorites]


    sorry, that should read metavoiding.
    posted by sgt.serenity at 2:24 AM on March 11, 2008


    and that should have read that i was metasorry.

    once again,

    my metapologies.
    posted by sgt.serenity at 2:25 AM on March 11, 2008


    u.n. owen is the "wife" of InnocentBystander?

    Wow, I feel like Chazz Palminteri at the end of The Usual Suspects. But I am entertained rather than annoyed, honestly.
    posted by grouse at 2:28 AM on March 11, 2008 [2 favorites]



    Wow, I feel like Chazz Palminteri at the end of The Usual Suspects.


    I feel like Paris Hilton at the end of Ulysses, but there you are.
    posted by sgt.serenity at 2:42 AM on March 11, 2008 [13 favorites]


    that does it. i've gotta go take a shower.

    you need to imagine the sarge's comment in billy connolly's accent to appreciate just how wrong things are turning here.
    posted by UbuRoivas at 2:59 AM on March 11, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Just read every frigging comment in this thread.
    Still have no clue as to what is happening.
    Cliff's notes, please?
    posted by Dizzy at 3:52 AM on March 11, 2008


    *boggles at u.n. owen revelation*

    Next y'all are gonna tell me dhoyt is back as ThePinkSuperhero...
    posted by romakimmy at 4:03 AM on March 11, 2008


    Cliff's Notes for Dizzy:

    sansgras had problems. Few believed her; some got angry, like being lied to was a new thing. Villagers with torches gathered at her cottage. She appeared at the 2nd story window, made an impassioned speech, mentioned that she's going to therapy, and the crowd thinned to where it was maybe a couple people with torches. Then the credits rolled, while some in the audience said, "Yeah, I liked it," and UbuR sang a song.
    posted by not_on_display at 4:37 AM on March 11, 2008 [12 favorites]


    Oh, and a sequel was hinted at.

    Next: Jane Eyre, that strumpet. She should have known that Rochester was already married. DUMP HIM!!!
    posted by not_on_display at 4:41 AM on March 11, 2008 [2 favorites]


    If MeFi is a city, what building have I just wandered into?

    The Attention Whore House
    posted by PeterMcDermott at 4:59 AM on March 11, 2008 [4 favorites]


    Just an aside, and for what little it's worth, but like a lot of stuff we think we made up here, that was an SA Forums catchphrase (and used elsewhere, but I think it came from SA before SA started its sad spiral into internet irrelevance) years before it appeared here.
    posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 1:59 AM on March 11 [+] [!]


    Really? Oh well. But did we every really get any proof that UN Owen wasn't for real? I don't think she fit the profile of a compulsive liar/scammer -- she was an active community member, and she didn't take the initiative to ask for money herself.
    posted by footnote at 5:03 AM on March 11, 2008


    stav: I think the chain was something like SexSexWorld -> Portal of Evil -> Something Awful -> Metafilter. All of which I think, bar SSW, were graced by UN Owen at some horrible point. In fact, I think it was on POE that her "jar of peanut butter" revelations were made.
    posted by nicolas léonard sadi carnot at 5:29 AM on March 11, 2008


    that was an SA Forums catchphrase (and used elsewhere, but I think it came from SA before SA started its sad spiral into internet irrelevance) years before it appeared here.

    I would be interested in seeing a source for that if you have one. mendel claims it is actually from Usenet but can't back that up.
    posted by grouse at 5:30 AM on March 11, 2008


    UN Owen was completely a fucking psycho flake, footnote. If you're really interested I can probably find the supporting dox, but yeah.
    posted by nicolas léonard sadi carnot at 5:31 AM on March 11, 2008


    Pony request - to save having to accidentally see any of this crap, from now on, when an AskMe question exceeds 2000 words can some sort of icon appear on the front page next to the username, maybe a small razor blade or tiny animated pair of emo specs with a tear drop falling from them?
    posted by fire&wings at 5:40 AM on March 11, 2008 [4 favorites]



    UN Owen was completely a fucking psycho flake, footnote. If you're really interested I can probably find the supporting dox, but yeah.


    I don't have much going on at work today, so if you could, it would make my day,
    posted by pieoverdone at 5:41 AM on March 11, 2008


    Yes, let's officially convene a coram nobis hearing for UN Owen.
    posted by footnote at 6:00 AM on March 11, 2008


    The beginning of the end for her on POE. Context: she'd just been boasting about how well she sucked cock or something, and then posted a coquettish picture of herself. Turns out that without Myspace angles she looked pretty different. A Specimens Removed post sums it up. From here, a Livejournal post from her ex-boyfriend was linked. In the following thread was an hilarious comment from a former housemate of hers about how she went through a stick of butter a day. Etc etc etc. The rabbit hole never ends.
    posted by nicolas léonard sadi carnot at 6:07 AM on March 11, 2008 [10 favorites]


    I mean, if this is all just a big story on my part, why not post something at least somewhat related to her story? She was much older than me, self-sufficient, married, a professional. Now she's become exceptionally creative writer and is pretending to be a girl who lives in a completely different country with a completely different story?

    If someone got caught in a lie which was well-documented on the internet, I would think that the LAST thing they would want to do would be to keep telling the same lie, or any part of that lie, because it would be that much easier to connect the story to one already proven to be false.

    Just because your story doesn't resemble the story of Beth in any way doesn't mean that you have to be telling the truth here. You could just be telling a different lie. That being said, I don't know if you're lying or not, and I can give you the benefit of the doubt. I just wanted to point out that "I have to be telling the truth because my story doesn't match up with a known lie!" doesn't really make any sense.
    posted by 23skidoo at 6:12 AM on March 11, 2008


    sansgras, my comment was also facetious.
    posted by iconomy at 6:16 AM on March 11, 2008


    And here's the metatalk thread where she gets the business.
    posted by nicolas léonard sadi carnot at 6:17 AM on March 11, 2008


    Thank you, n_o_display.
    Anybody have a copy of it I can play on my Betamax?
    posted by Dizzy at 6:24 AM on March 11, 2008


    Next y'all are gonna tell me dhoyt is back as ThePinkSuperhero...

    ::jazz hands::
    posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:10 AM on March 11, 2008 [2 favorites]


    nicolas, thanks for the U.N. Owen thread. That should be on the MeTa sidebar; it would serve the same function as all those impaled people outside of Vlad's castle. Plus it's far funnier than even the most hilarious impaling.
    posted by Mister_A at 7:14 AM on March 11, 2008


    Really? Oh well. But did we every really get any proof that UN Owen wasn't for real? I don't think she fit the profile of a compulsive liar/scammer -- she was an active community member, and she didn't take the initiative to ask for money herself.

    She precisely fit the profile of a compulsive liar/scammer, because she compulsively lied and was part of a scam to get money from other MeFites. That it was not her idea doesn't mean she didn't facilitate it, and I think if you read the threads, you'll see that she did.

    But, more to the point, although this thread starts with reference to Kaycee, un owen has been brought up here for a good reason. She's the person I thought of when evaluating what we know about sansgras. In other words, the distrust displayed toward sansgras is a result of the scamming that un owen did here. Why would we want to invite that back into the community.

    (Read scody's two links for more dirty-feeling bullshit from that woman. Who the fuck tries to physically intimidate someone who's just doing their job? If you want to claim special exemptions because of your past, you have to be willing to demonstrate evidence of that past.)
    posted by OmieWise at 7:19 AM on March 11, 2008


    Hah!
    posted by Partial Law at 7:24 AM on March 11, 2008 [4 favorites]


    And yet, OmieWise, when she posted those threads, there was a lot of support coming from MeFites and a lot of "Good for you!". Is the disgust at the physical intimidation directed at the act, or at her?
    posted by Phire at 7:32 AM on March 11, 2008


    It's ironic that I considered making a comment in the AskMe thread explaining that it was reasonable for the financial aid officer to request proof because of the willingness of so many undergraduates to lie to get an edge. I decided not to because it didn't answer the question. It seems it would have been unnecessary anyway as u.n. owen, of all people, would know how true that is.
    posted by grouse at 7:45 AM on March 11, 2008


    I am addicted to this stuff (Kaycee Nicole, UN OWen, GiveWell, etc) now, and it will probably get me fired from my job as Head Rocket Scientist (yes I work on Head Rockets, why do you ask?). And I will need to pass the hat, and in exchange for your largesse, I will offer long dissembling fictions about my abused and abusive childhood and my enthusiasms for violence and public sex, preferably concurrent, and my incredible IQ, my undergrad degrees at MIT (Rocketology) and Yale (Hot Sexy Sexism), my graduate work at the Sorbonne (Astrophysics) and Oxford (Astrology).

    And the more discerning among you will discern that I am facing a couple of deadlines, and so am compelled to tighten every screw in the house, clean the top shelf of the bookcase, obsessively read certain web sites for "inspiration", and call long-lost college friends. Because that's how writing is done.
    posted by Mister_A at 7:45 AM on March 11, 2008 [3 favorites]


    It's weird to say the least.
    posted by drezdn at 7:47 AM on March 11, 2008


    Mister_A,

    I tried to communicate with you telepathically. Pretty flakeyville, hunh? I just felt this strong compulsion when I guess I could have been sleeping but I figured I could sleep later, and I did. I hope you wake up soon. We miss you, tht's all. Take your time as you need, I told you, but I really miss you and flakeyville or not, I hope you felt/heard me last night. I keep lighting candles for you, sweetheart. I think of you every day, I really do. I heart you, big time. I'm going to write you a letter and maybe your Rocketology supervisor could read it to you. Btw, that postage stamp on the letter you sent to me was so cute! I loved the teddy bear with the presents design of it. I didn't see any US stamps as cute or cool as that one. It's a keeper. :) xo ND¢

    Current Mood: keeping the faith
    posted by ND¢ at 7:51 AM on March 11, 2008 [1 favorite]


    And yet, OmieWise, when she posted those threads, there was a lot of support coming from MeFites and a lot of "Good for you!". Is the disgust at the physical intimidation directed at the act, or at her?

    Yeah, I read the support and it dismayed me. My disgust is directed at the idea and at the support for the idea. That it's her adds to it, but doesn't create it.

    If I had to speculate about where the support for the idea comes from, I would guess that people are reacting sympathetically to the difficulty an abuse survivor might have revisiting those aspects of her life. I can understand that, but I don't think it excuses deliberately acting badly. Nor, as I mentioned, do I think one gets to plead for special consideration because of a past that one is unwilling to have verified. It's kind of one or the other.
    posted by OmieWise at 8:00 AM on March 11, 2008


    doubting hat

    No! Don't tell me you're starting on me! I'm real, I tell you! Real!!

    This thread has definitely been worth it for the u.n. owen/InnocentBystander revelation; as for sansgras, I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt. Good luck with the mishegoss, kiddo!
    posted by languagehat at 8:02 AM on March 11, 2008


    On non-preview:

    I will need to pass the hat

    Oh no you don't!

    *runs faster*
    posted by languagehat at 8:04 AM on March 11, 2008 [1 favorite]


    I apologize to sansgras for any malicious accusory. That said, I must confess that I still cock a skeptical eye at parts of her story. Her original AskMe painted a picture of a naive young captive woman with an advanced degree who never went anywhere except to work and (previously) school because of her controlling father. We later find out that he tracks her movements via her cellphone. She had no friends and had never dated.

    In the most recent post, we find out that she's had lots of casual sex, but doesn't count that as "dating." She has a "schtup me" dress (how does her dad let her out of the house in that? Does she change in the rest room at work?) that's a guaranteed guy-getter - how does she escape Dad's watchful eye long enough to trot out the dress and secure a quick hook-up? During her lunch hour at work? She doesn't make enough money at her job to get her own apartment, yet she's asking about luxury hotels in New York (maybe it's a company-paid weekend?)

    :::shrug:::
    posted by Oriole Adams at 10:08 AM on March 11, 2008


    If I had to speculate about where the support for the idea comes from,

    Maybe it was from the fact that, despite her presentation, the story she told contained no actual physical intimidation but rather just bringing a friend along for moral support?

    You'll note many comments in that thread that comment on that fact.

    And frankly, knowing more about the poster's on-line history a) makes me wonder if the incident took place at all, and b) makes me absolutely certain that if the incident did take place, the details were embellished to make a good story.

    You shouldn't confuse people's approval of a narrative for their belief in it.
    posted by tkolar at 10:09 AM on March 11, 2008


    there are known unowens and there are unknown unowens
    posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:23 AM on March 11, 2008 [25 favorites]


    It's true there was no mention of roughing the guy up or anything, but I thought the intimidation factor was pretty plainly laid out in the original metatalk post, hence my comment in that thread. But yeah, it's all pretty pointless considering the source. I doubt it ever happened at all.
    posted by puke & cry at 10:28 AM on March 11, 2008


    Maybe it was from the fact that, despite her presentation, the story she told contained no actual physical intimidation but rather just bringing a friend along for moral support?

    You must be reading a different story. That physical intimidation was meant to be implied is everywhere evident in her account, from her description of her friend's dress to her description of the administrator's reaction. I understand that no one was explicitly threatened in the story, but I think it's despicable nonetheless.

    You shouldn't confuse people's approval of a narrative for their belief in it.

    I'm not sure what this means. Seriously. Many of the comments are of the "good job" variety. Few are of the "good story" variety. Even if we discount that the incident took place (which I agree, is unlikely given the author), the approval was directed at the idea that it's appropriate to intimidate someone if you don't like the questions they ask. Awful.
    posted by OmieWise at 10:28 AM on March 11, 2008


    All this sansgras stuff aside... I don't know if I am better or worse for now knowing un owen exists on the planet.
    posted by jerseygirl at 10:28 AM on March 11, 2008


    The bit that I liked about the college financial aid guy intimidation scheme post (or C-FAG-ISP) is that I know many men will disrespect, harrass, and humiliate women who are unaccompanied by men. If a man appears at her shoulder, suddenly the misogynist shit-bags are all sweetness and "yes, Ma'am". My reading of the C-FAG-ISP was that the FAG was that kind of man (a woman-hating coward), and that it was completely in bounds to bring someone along to help ensure the proper courtesy. I would (and have) done the same for my wife and my step-daughter, and while I wish I did not have to, pretending that this sort of thing doesn't happen doesn't help anyone. In related news, TEChNOVikIinG!!!111!
    posted by Mister_A at 10:33 AM on March 11, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Oh boy, Technoviking! That's where I'm asleep!
    posted by grouse at 10:42 AM on March 11, 2008 [6 favorites]


    Ja ja, check out Måt Høwië's current post on the blue, that's what turned me on to the TechnoViking.
    posted by Mister_A at 10:51 AM on March 11, 2008


    Yeah, I know those kinds of guys, too, Mister_A, but there really is no indication that that's what this guy was like in either the question or the comments un owen posted. There's a lot of assertion by answerers that he's that kind of guy, but un owen doesn't even take the opportunity to confirm it. And, regardless, she didn't get a male friend to come along for moral support, in the story she got one to come along to be physically intimidating.

    I don't want to keep belaboring this, because it probably didn't happen anyway, but the whole incident, from soup to nuts, seems shitty and not worthy of praise.
    posted by OmieWise at 10:53 AM on March 11, 2008


    Part of the problem with the incident that OmieWise is describing is the thing I was mentioning in another MeTa thread... we (where we = society, not necessarily people here) get really congratulatory when people who have been dealt a really crappy hand somehow get even. I think part of this is identifying with the underdog, part of this is just liking to believe in justice or karma or whathaveyou. When the people are, for example, survivors of abuse, there is a little more tolerance or acceptance of "an eye for an eye" retribution which would normally be totally unacceptable, in my worldview anyhow. We see this in MeFi where the snarkee becomes the snarker and it's somehow more "justified" snark than it would be if it were just unprovoked.

    Anyhow, I felt like the story was a bit of a tall tale anyhow. Bringing someone for support = okay in my book. Intimidating someone who is likely just some lame dorky office functionary = much less so, especially if the recounting of events is sketch or suspect. Even though I have a bit of the underdog affinity myself, there are times where I'm just disinclined to believe, because I often feel that people can't be as terrible as others are describing (we see this a lot with relationshipfilter "what's the other side of the story here...?) and before I really get morally outraged, I have to be damned sure that it's not because someone is jerking my chain.

    The online/unreal nature of this I think makes this more cut and dried from an observer's perspective and the one-sided nature of most AskMe reporting does lead to situations where we're being asked to take a story at face value that might be sort of true but may be a little untrue. I'm happier just moving on and giving people advice on how to get in to library school or where to find good mini golf in the DC area, but the desire to understand and to help is strong and these weird stories -- really the weirder they are, the more the people seem to need help to untangle them, don't they? -- drive attention like nothing else.
    posted by jessamyn (staff) at 11:14 AM on March 11, 2008 [5 favorites]


    It is pretty weird that people are jumping up to defend un owen's actions here. It seems that she requested some sort of exemption from the scholarship rules at her school based on certain claims and then freaked out when they asked for proof of her claims (justifiably, according to her). She doesn't exactly have a reputation for telling the whole truth here on Metafilter, so it doesn't seem unreasonable to suppose there is a chance she is a little liberal with the truth in real life too. Now she physically intimidates someone at her school into accepting her story without any proof at all. I can sort of understand supporting that, if one takes her story at face value, but given what we know of her, the story leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.
    posted by ssg at 11:22 AM on March 11, 2008


    OmieWise, I know what you mean, and I think I was seeing that episode through my own particular filter, and it was colored by my experience with that sort of person. Plus, yea, it's probably totally fake.
    posted by Mister_A at 11:23 AM on March 11, 2008


    We are all of us rough-hewn cogs in a marvelous machine.
    posted by Divine_Wino at 11:27 AM on March 11, 2008 [5 favorites]


    I can sort of understand supporting that, if one takes her story at face value, but given what we know of her, the story leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.

    But keep in mind, when she posted the story as "IB's wife," it wasn't common knowledge at that point that it was U.N.Owen, Known Fabulist. Hence the inclination of a number of so many people to give her the benefit of the doubt (or just gloss over the ridiculousness of the story entirely), especially given the "underdog/abuse survivor asserts self to mean, faceless bureaucrat, rah rah rah" narrative.
    posted by scody at 11:41 AM on March 11, 2008 [1 favorite]


    scody: I agree with you. That's why I said that it is "weird that people are jumping up to defend un owen's actions here" i.e. in this thread.
    posted by ssg at 11:46 AM on March 11, 2008


    I don't think anyone is defending her actions so much as they're defending their responses in that thread.
    posted by puke & cry at 11:51 AM on March 11, 2008


    You shouldn't confuse people's approval of a narrative for their belief in it.
    I'm not sure what this means. Seriously.


    Sorry, let me expand a bit.

    Her story bears much in common with these narratives -- charming little revenge stories that completely fall apart under scrutiny. What starts with "yay, cool for that person" becomes "They let their Aunt Millie fly in from Milwaukee for that? How selfish."

    But the narrative remains popular nonetheless, and if that story showed up as a followup to an AskMe ("I think my fiancee is cheating on me... what should I do?") it would be met with similar support -- despite the fact that if it really happened the way it was told, it would be a really shitty thing to do.

    People like these stories, and the fact that people in that thread are saying "Yeah! You should have brought an even bigger guy wearing a hockey mask and carrying a chainsaw!" should probably not be taken literally. IMHO they're just adding their own take on what would make the revenge story sweeter.
    posted by tkolar at 12:21 PM on March 11, 2008


    For the benefit of the ignorant, the u.n. owen case file.
    posted by Krrrlson at 12:26 PM on March 11, 2008 [5 favorites]


    Bleagh. I'm glad sansgras has been vindicated(ish). I never saw much discrepancy in her posts--in fact, I was really glad to read in her later posts/questions that she was dating someone, as it would get her out of the house with her oppressive father.

    Her story is plausible to me because I know a girl who is in pretty much her position. Extremely oppressive, traditional Middle-Eastern father. Entered college at an extremely young age, graduated at a young age. Their stories diverge because the girl I know met people in college who introduced her to new, not-religiously-dogmatic ideas and lots of drugs. Good in some ways, but not in others, because though she's well-versed in partying very, very hard, she's not versed in supporting herself, and lives a schizophrenic lifestyle where she parties more than is healthy for her while attempting to maintain a facade of purity in front of her parents.

    So I could fully imagine what would happen if that girl was not introduced to a different lifestyle in college, or resisted that lifestyle more. Instead of barely passing classes because she was high all the time, she could graduate early because her incredibly insular family life left her not much to do with herself besides study. know kids in my school who entered five year undergrad/masters tracks and got their masters in the four years (a couple have done it in three, those hyperintelligent bastards), so her getting her master's by twenty would not be crazy to me. Then she goes straight to a job, because that's all she really knows how to do next, and starts contemplating med school because nothing says success to her family like an M.D.

    The insecurity, immaturity, and extreme self-analyzing behavior would be perfectly in line with someone raised in a controlled environment where they were not allowed social outlets outside the family. I mean, has nobody else here noticed that when you grow up with few friends, when you finally start talking to people all you have to talk about is yourself?

    Finally, I see no disconnect in how quick her relationships moved when she finally started them. Jesus Christ, it was my impression that 70-80% of MeFites were or are dateless nerdlings at some point in their lives! If so, then people, you cannot possibly be arguing then that lack of dates and sex immediately translates to lack of interest in dates and sex, and creates hesitation to engage in those activities when the opportunities finally arise. I don't know about you guys, but the friends I've had who didn't get a chance to get laid until after high school weren't about to start playing blushing, shrinking virgin when that chance finally happened. Not so much "Aw, shucks, let's just hold hands for a while" as "SWEET JESUS FINALLY PLEASE TAKE ME NOW DEAR GOD".
    posted by schroedinger at 12:32 PM on March 11, 2008 [3 favorites]


    With the proviso that the story is probably more fiction than fact, as presented it's pretty plausible. Leaving aside the emotional aspects of it the central point seemed to be that the prior official and the current official disagreed on a technicality, and plenty of posters with relevant experience chimed in to concur that there was no solid, universal standard by which to judge that point.

    Having dealt with my share of admissions departments I have no trouble at all believing that those central facts could easily have been true.
    posted by Skorgu at 12:32 PM on March 11, 2008


    [IB's wife, who used to indeed be U.N. Owen]

    For those who wondered honestly, "what happened to me" is pretty normal. I'm going back to college, married (for about 2 years now, with a Disney World ceremony, and this account is his, though he doesn't use it much any more because he's more active on reddit), and living a normal life in a normal house with normal friends and a bunch of not entirely normal pets. The fact that the combined wrath of metafilter came down on me once really, actually fucked with me quite a bit. I never got my own account, for one thing, because of it.

    I'm still fat, so if you want to make fun of me for that, that's cool.

    But yeah, if you ever want to go get drinks or something, let me know. I'd already told a few people on metafilter my super-seekrit identity, but whatever, if it's public, I guess what's done is done. By the way -- in case anyone wondered, my money problems are over and have been for some time. The people who helped back then were actually a genuinely good help, whether you want to believe that or not. Today, with my financial aid money, I got the laptop I'd ordered from the Dell outlet. I paid my rent on time for the 12th consecutive month. I got a cute skirt on clearance and am wearing it. These are pretty new and cool things for me. They might not be for you, but they are for me. In three years, I'll have a dual degree in education and political science. That'll be pretty neat, too, since the first time around in school, I didn't get to finish.

    Your detective work and memories are excellent. If you'd like, I'll leave again. I was originally asked by Jessamyn to leave (without, it's worth noting, even asking if I had documentation to back up my story -- which I did, for at least 95% of it), and my husband will continue or not, as is his wish. It's been several years since all of that occurred. We have mefimail now. If you'd like to ask me about any part of that, I would be...not exactly happy, but okay with answering just about any question from that part of my life.

    I bet you changed a lot from when you were 20 until you turned 24, too. It was my birthday on Sunday. I was hoping for a fresh start to the year. If any of you see fit to give it to me, that'd be awesome. If it's only going to cause drama, I'll make an exit, because I'm really not in favor of internet drama at this point in time (nor real life drama -- I even chickenshitted out on giving my mom's boyfriend a passive-aggressive gift, and I'm glad, since they broke up since).
    posted by InnocentBystander at 12:39 PM on March 11, 2008 [2 favorites]


    [Additionally, I will not be monitoring this thread, because last time, it made me pretty depressed for a long time. If you want to talk to me, use mefi mail. I'll read that. This sort of thread, where everyone jumps on someone and defenses are impossible, is really painful to read if you've been part of it. Whether you think it was deserved or not, it still sucks to read it. So I won't, and if you'd like to make angry annoyed comments or nice ones, mefimail is the place to do it. Besides, this is a different thread, on a different topic.]
    posted by InnocentBystander at 12:44 PM on March 11, 2008


    IB's wife: I'm genuinely curious, why are there too different timelines for your childhood bullying story?
    posted by fermezporte at 12:46 PM on March 11, 2008


    .
    posted by Mister_A at 12:47 PM on March 11, 2008


    By the way -- in case anyone wondered, my money problems are over and have been for some time. The people who helped back then were actually a genuinely good help, whether you want to believe that or not.

    You offering refunds?
    posted by ND¢ at 12:48 PM on March 11, 2008 [7 favorites]


    wah wah wah. You weren't a victim U.N. Owen - you actually were the victimizer. There are many better people on this site who are able to take any thread and become the "victim" in it. You, however, are not one of those people.
    posted by Stynxno at 12:53 PM on March 11, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Just when we thought we were out of popcorn....
    posted by Big_B at 12:54 PM on March 11, 2008


    This seems like the right place to make this announcement: My next band is going to be called Coronado Paranoiac Jurassic Starlight. That's from a spam that seems to have been sent by William S. Burroughs.
    posted by Mister_A at 12:59 PM on March 11, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Don't care much about the drama and the fraud, since this ilk is all over the internet. Surprised that MetaFilter got taken by it, though.

    "this account is his, though he doesn't use it much any more because he's more active on reddit)"

    I think this is total bullshit. If it's his account, then you should not be using it without disclaiming every single time that it's you.

    "The fact that the combined wrath of metafilter came down on me once really, actually fucked with me quite a bit."

    If you earned that wrath fair and square? Then, shut up. If you didn't, that's something altogether different. But, I hope you're not making a sympathy play because the big bad meanie detective squad here found you out.

    " I never got my own account, for one thing, because of it."

    Again, I find this to be patently against the guidelines and in direct opposition to how things are supposed to work around here. You were banned. Hiding under someone else's account is wrong. Blaming us for the fact that you couldn't bear to get your own account is worse.

    "The people who helped back then were actually a genuinely good help"

    Yeah, free cash usually is genuinely good.

    "If you'd like, I'll leave again."

    It's not up to me, but yeah, I'd like you to leave. I'm all for people making a fresh start at MetaFilter, but that means actually START OVER. Without the drama, the lying, the hinky AskMes, the conflicting stories. If you're still here, wearing "u.n. owen" like a bloody badge of bizarre pride, and circumventing the guidelines for participation, you've certainly not started over.

    "I bet you changed a lot from when you were 20 until you turned 24, too. "

    Not even remotely the point here. Pathetic red herring.

    "I was hoping for a fresh start to the year. If any of you see fit to give it to me, that'd be awesome."

    And skulking around a site where you were banned, posting while using someone else's account, secretly, seemed the right way to make your fresh start? Only, we are somehow in control of whether you receive that fresh start?

    "I'm really not in favor of internet drama"

    You don't say. You sure do still seem to love playing the victim, though. All grownsed up, huh?
    posted by pineapple at 12:59 PM on March 11, 2008 [4 favorites]


    Things like this always make me reflect on the words of wisdom from the great St. Twain: "If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything."
    posted by Drastic at 1:01 PM on March 11, 2008 [4 favorites]


    Just when we thought we were out of popcorn....

    ...and were all set to fold-up the lawn chairs.
    posted by ericb at 1:21 PM on March 11, 2008


    I'd be interested to know if there was ever a guy behind the InnocentBystander name or if it was just un owen fucking with everyone.
    posted by puke & cry at 1:28 PM on March 11, 2008


    Wow, this just got waaaaaaay more entertaining! Pity I have a class tonight or I'd be happily nuking the popcorn right now. I'm trying and failing to remember, wasn't there also some Monkeyfilter U.N. Owen drama at around the same time as the stuff on the gray? Under yet another name?
    posted by mygothlaundry at 1:42 PM on March 11, 2008


    Hmmm, InnocentBystander's account page still looks live.
    posted by Mister_A at 1:45 PM on March 11, 2008


    Anyway, nice use of the Chewbacca defense, UN Owen/InnocentBystander.
    posted by Mister_A at 1:47 PM on March 11, 2008


    YAY! I cannot get enough of this stuff.

    *rolls around in filth*
    posted by Skot at 1:51 PM on March 11, 2008 [7 favorites]


    (Though I am guessing that the admins are lighting their hair on fire. My condolences.)
    posted by Skot at 1:52 PM on March 11, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Don't hog the filth, skot.
    posted by Mister_A at 2:02 PM on March 11, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Why is this still open? Admin-strategery?

    Hey everybody, our attention to this thread is preventing us from posting new, and similarly awesome/awful spectacles on MeTa!
    posted by cior at 2:06 PM on March 11, 2008


    [comment removed - reproducing hateful comments from other sites here when you could just as easily link to them is making a bad situation worse.]
    posted by jessamyn (staff) at 2:08 PM on March 11, 2008 [1 favorite]


    There are people who want this thread closed? There has never been, and may never be, a greater thread than this.
    posted by LittleMissCranky at 2:10 PM on March 11, 2008 [1 favorite]


    I think that's the first time I've seen a comment removed from MeTa.
    posted by triggerfinger at 2:12 PM on March 11, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Oh look Dennis, there's some lovely filth over here!

    InnocentBystander's quest for a passive-aggressive gift! Later mentions in the thread it's "IB's wife" (now known as u.n. owen) posting--are we surprised, given the dramatic story and petty methods taken for resolution? The stalking ex takes on a new light in consideration of the saga of Ross and Jeanette, given that she leveled the same accusations against him when he attempted to collect unpaid rent. And there's the familiar claims of abuse, childhood trauma and adulthood martyrdom (that one got a lot of favorites), and sexually themed comments that are sure to establish the sort of persona people pay attention to! And that's just the stuff claimed under IB's wife. Who knows what's real and not in IB's posting history?
    posted by schroedinger at 2:14 PM on March 11, 2008 [5 favorites]


    It's like two witch-hunts in one thread! The intellectual, empathetic side of me says, "Haven't any of you lived? Do you really think you are truly in control of your lives at any time? Have any of you experienced pain, emotional instability, fears, need to be accepted? Can't you see these are human beings, just like yourself?" The lizard brain side of me says, "Oooooh, a mob is gathering, where's my camcorder? Will there be bottles thrown?" I think I'll leave the stadium before I become more disillusioned.

    What building is it? The asylum? The
    posted by not_on_display at 2:15 PM on March 11, 2008


    (whoops, seems my hand hit "post" before I could finish. Probably no accident, that. Listen to the subconscious!)
    posted by not_on_display at 2:16 PM on March 11, 2008


    wow, she's back. one wonders if the Innocent Bystander account will post again.
    posted by shmegegge at 2:22 PM on March 11, 2008


    Have any of you experienced pain, emotional instability, fears, need to be accepted?

    Yes and through it all I have managed to not scam money out of people by lying to them. I must be a fucking saint!
    posted by ND¢ at 2:22 PM on March 11, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Now we just need to learn that at least 25% of metafilter members are actually dhoyt and this thread will be assured a place in the hall of fame.
    posted by drezdn at 2:26 PM on March 11, 2008 [2 favorites]


    The intellectual, empathetic side of me says, "Haven't any of you lived? Do you really think you are truly in control of your lives at any time? Have any of you experienced pain, emotional instability, fears, need to be accepted? Can't you see these are human beings, just like yourself?"

    The intellectual, empathetic side of me says, "The fantastical stories and endless need for attention are very characteristic of people who became emotionally 'stuck' around the age of 7. And come to think of it, I find these people every bit as tiresome as a 7 year old who's homework was stolen by nazi frogmen."

    In short, the fact that the behavior is 'natural' doesn't make it any less annoying.

    You don't even want to know what my lizard brain thinks.
    posted by tkolar at 2:26 PM on March 11, 2008


    schroedinger said: "InnocentBystander's quest for a passive-aggressive gift!"

    Ho. Lee. Shit. I totally remember that one. When I read it originally, I remember it didn't pass my sniff test.... it wasn't the interest in buying an eff-you gift... it was the oh-so-carefully crafted narrative. I'm sure she dined out for days on the 79 favorites that it garnered (which I suspect is also the reason she carefully mentioned it here again).
    posted by pineapple at 2:26 PM on March 11, 2008


    Mister_A: "Hmmm, InnocentBystander's account page still looks live."

    Yeah, I don't understand why the account hasn't been closed, either. un owen was, apparently, asked to leave the site by jessamyn (not that I'll believe that until jessamyn confirms it) and has been using another person's account, only occasionally indicating that she's not the original owner of that account (sound familiar?!).

    She's just taking the piss. Again. And I can't see how it doesn't merit an instant ban. (Shame for the supposed husband who bought the account, but since he's not using it anyway...)
    posted by jack_mo at 2:27 PM on March 11, 2008


    Getcher tar right here! Hot tar, ten dollars same as in town! Feathers at the next booth, sorry.
    posted by languagehat at 2:27 PM on March 11, 2008


    I think everyone in this thread should be banned.
    posted by Mister_A at 2:29 PM on March 11, 2008


    FILTH FIIIIILTH

    not_on_display, if there was evidence, any evidence at all, that u.n. owen was not the same u.n. owen who set the Internets a-fire years ago that would be one thing. But from her posting, u.n. owen/Jeanette Vanderbosch/musingmelpomene/who-knows-what-else is the same person she has always been, just under a different name.

    It is possible to go through hard times without willfully lying and hurting a bunch of people--or at least trying to avoid it and feeling bad and apologizing when it happens. And because this Metatalk thread needs to hit as many cliches as possible, I have to do what I'm going to do next.

    You know who else lies to people and doesn't care?
    posted by schroedinger at 2:31 PM on March 11, 2008


    I miss ole sansgras already.
    posted by Mister_A at 2:32 PM on March 11, 2008 [2 favorites]


    I'M WITH THE BANNED.
    posted by dersins at 2:34 PM on March 11, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Hm? Oh yeah, we sell feathers, here.

    What? Yeah, it's the same price as in town.

    Because then you'd have to walk to town to get them, and I'm right here.

    I don't know.

    Do I look like I give a fuck what the fuck benefits town has? Are you buying feathers or not?

    FINE! FUCK YOU, THEN! And you know what, maybe I will call you when I garner a better appreciation for the keynesian economic model! Also when I'm done fucking your mother!

    Hm? Yeah, we got feathers, here.
    posted by shmegegge at 2:35 PM on March 11, 2008 [3 favorites]


    Did the mods know of Innocentbystander's "connection" to owens? There have been some members who were booted/left only to be allowed back under a different name provided they didn't stir up problems again.
    posted by drezdn at 2:36 PM on March 11, 2008


    This is the best of the web. Sad and true!
    posted by everichon at 2:36 PM on March 11, 2008


    *plops LARGE RAIL onto ground, wipe brow*

    Someone needed a rail, here? Can one of you sign for this?
    posted by everichon at 2:38 PM on March 11, 2008


    I'm just sayin'. Or not. I must get my own fucking blog one day, so the whole world will see things my way. Anyway, have fun. Or not.
    posted by not_on_display at 2:38 PM on March 11, 2008


    drezdn: "Did the mods know of Innocentbystander's "connection" to owens? There have been some members who were booted/left only to be allowed back under a different name provided they didn't stir up problems again."

    Seems safe to say that Jessamyn does, seeing as she commented above, long after InnocentBystander confirmed that she is indeed un owen (and what a username to pick for her comeback that is!).

    Is anyone else secretly hoping that it turns out to be dhoyt pretending to be un owen in the guise of InnocentBystander?
    posted by jack_mo at 2:47 PM on March 11, 2008 [1 favorite]


    I'd already told a few people on metafilter my super-seekrit identity, but whatever, if it's public, I guess what's done is done.

    I remember you telling me a few months ago, and although I remember the conversation and would mention it every now and then to people ("Wonder where u.n. owen is?" "Funny story, she IMed me one night..."), I had completely forgotten until now the account you were associated with (I seem to recall you mentioned it to me as your husband's and not as one you yourself were using, though it was a long time ago and I could be wrong) . I'm all for giving people a second, third, whatever chance, and I wish you could have one, but I don't know if it's possible to get one without completely starting over and never, ever revealing who you "really" are. Which is sad, but, again, I have no better ideas.
    posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 2:53 PM on March 11, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Did the mods know of Innocentbystander's "connection" to owens?

    We just found out as you guys did. The old u.n. owen account has been banned. I'd like to make a very public request that u.n. owen not use her husband's account from this point forward. Sharing accounts more than extremely rarely is very uncool.

    IB or u.n. owen can follow up with me or cortex via email or IM with the caveat that I'm on the road until late tomorrow night. If you're flush now I guess I'd like my $20 back.
    posted by jessamyn (staff) at 2:55 PM on March 11, 2008 [16 favorites]


    "I find these people every bit as tiresome as a 7 year old who's homework was stolen by nazi frogmen."

    Truly, the tragedy there is that it makes it harder for those of us who, at seven, had their homework stolen by Nazi frogmen.
    posted by klangklangston at 2:57 PM on March 11, 2008 [9 favorites]


    Whom had their homework stolen?

    Just fucking atrophy already, dative case.
    posted by klangklangston at 2:59 PM on March 11, 2008 [3 favorites]


    This really raises more questions than it answers. Are these frogmen like guys in wetsuits or are these half-frog half-men, and if so, were they made into these horrific creatures by twisted Nazi scientists, or are these a hideous race of half-frog half-men that just so happened to find the tenets of national socialism appealing?
    posted by ND¢ at 3:03 PM on March 11, 2008 [5 favorites]


    It was half shark alligator half man. In my case, anyway.
    posted by everichon at 3:09 PM on March 11, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Can you imagine working at this place?
    posted by Mister_A at 3:10 PM on March 11, 2008


    Someone needed a rail, here? Can one of you sign for this?
    posted by everichon at 5:38 PM on March 11


    Oh hey, I can.

    Waaaaaaaait a minute. Last time I signed for a rail, it was one of them INTO town type rails. I ain't signing for nothing till I know for damn sure it's an OUTTA town rail, this time.
    posted by shmegegge at 3:13 PM on March 11, 2008


    *waits to see if the (now known) u.n.owen refunds jessamyn her $20(SAIT)*
    posted by languagehat at 3:19 PM on March 11, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Yeah, the IB/UN thing was a surprise to us. I've been doing some research on IPs and posting histories to try and pin things down as best as I can. My best guess based on that:

    InnocentBystander is a guy who joined the site in November of 2004. Actual guy, papertrail exists on the internet. Possibility exists that the papertrail itself is all a fabrication, of course, but that proposition is more pathological and far-reaching than I'm willing to entertain at the moment.

    In a thread on the blue in December 2004, IB elliptically calls UN "a friend", UN chastises him with a joke about not letting him move in if he doesn't take it back, and IB clarifies that she is the most wonderful girl ever.

    Pretty strongly suggests they knew each other, whether as close friends or romantic partners, when IB signed up the previous month; and based on IP collisions, they were likely roommates indeed when the big u.n. owen kerfluffle kicked up end of Feb, beginning of March 2005.

    Which is neither here nor there, but it does suggest a timeline for potential account-sharing that goes back as far as the original meltdown. Which, itself, is kind of a shitty implication; I don't know how often and how early she actually started using his account, post-meltdown, but a span of three years and a clear record of regular sharing at this point is pretty fucked up and not okay, and she needs to cut it out pronto. If the dude himself isn't really using the account, I'm inclined to think we should just close it and leave it at that.

    I'll drop her a line, regardless.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 3:26 PM on March 11, 2008 [4 favorites]


    If you're flush now I guess I'd like my $20 back.

    If she's flush now, I'd like to see her pay everyone back. (And I say that as someone's who's not owed a penny.)

    Having said that, I'm looking forward to the elaborate story and narrative sleights of hand she'll concoct to explain why she couldn't possibly do such a thing. Overseas phone sex investment schemes gone awry, leading to a pan-European scandal of epic proportions, possibly reaching all the way to Crown Prince Otto? Or just difficulties with Paypal?

    If the dude himself isn't really using the account, I'm inclined to think we should just close it and leave it at that.

    Wasn't the u.n.owen account actually opened up by someone else, too, and she assumed "ownership" of it later as well?

    Geez, the lengths some people will go to just to avoid paying $5.
    posted by scody at 3:35 PM on March 11, 2008 [2 favorites]


    pretty fucked up and not okay

    Considering you have no idea, no systematic way of preventing account sharing, and it all hinges on a gentleman's agreement not to do it, I'm sort of surprised by this. Would that Metafilter held the same value on identity when it comes to people using sockpuppets.

    Surely it has to be about identity, and not that one instance prevents $5 extra going in the coffers, and the latter means multiples of that.
    posted by Dave Faris at 3:39 PM on March 11, 2008



    *waits to see if the (now known) u.n.owen refunds jessamyn her $20(SAIT)*


    You really are a patient fellow.
    posted by tkolar at 3:40 PM on March 11, 2008


    > pretty fucked up and not okay

    Considering you have no idea, no systematic way of preventing account sharing, and it all hinges on a gentleman's agreement not to do it, I'm sort of surprised by this. Would that Metafilter held the same value on identity when it comes to people using sockpuppets.


    Obviously we have no 100% systematic way to detect or prevent account sharing. The same goes for self-linking, though, and yet we consider willful, undisclosed self-linking to be pretty fucked up and not okay as well. We also consider abusive use of sockpuppets to be out of line, and I've had varyingly polite discussions with a few different people in the last year over the issue.

    Contrary to whatever may be popular belief, sockpuppet accounts that we know about and that are being used for other than utterly lighthearted or e.g. sparing, legit (as opposed to abusive) askme emergency-handling or anonymization? Probably gonna get closed down when we see the problematic behavior. While we can't be 100% certain about things, we've been steadily building up our toolset for detecting fishy inter-account hijinks.

    If two people are sharing an account and it never, ever comes to light, does it make a sound? I think habitual account-sharing is bad, just on principle. Buy an extra account. If $5 is a hardship, write to us and explain the situation.

    I think genuinely occasional posting-for-my-wife/friend/father stuff is not so bad, particularly when it is explicitly disclosed as such. I don't think that's much of anything like what's going on in the IB/UN situation here, by UN's own admission, and I think the situation here is decidedly fucked, yes.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 3:52 PM on March 11, 2008 [1 favorite]


    "Are these frogmen like guys in wetsuits or are these half-frog half-men, and if so, were they made into these horrific creatures by twisted Nazi scientists, or are these a hideous race of half-frog half-men that just so happened to find the tenets of national socialism appealing?"

    Yes, all of those. They are half-man-half-frog chimera that also wear wetsuits, some of them created by Nazis and some of them coming to national socialism though a misguided scapegoating of the Jews for the tadpole collapse of '29. And when Abe Sapien fights them, it gets really hard to draw.

    I only shudder to think of what those mutated bastards will do with a report on the agricultural production of Michigan. Some sort of sugar beet evil, likely.
    posted by klangklangston at 4:00 PM on March 11, 2008 [2 favorites]


    Also, the frogmen say that $5 is a hardship as Paypal is painfully bound to a monetary-exchange model, refusing to accept flies, grubs, larvae or scum in exchange for funds, and they would like their own account so that they can start posting to the green as their own sockpuppets.
    posted by klangklangston at 4:03 PM on March 11, 2008


    Aside from a throw-away joke sockpuppet, is there really any legitimate use? For the sake of the community's need and desire for identity security (as amply demonstrated in this thread) I'd suggest it's "no."
    posted by Dave Faris at 4:07 PM on March 11, 2008


    Sock puppets are great for AskMe when you have a question you don't want attached to your meatspace identity.
    posted by small_ruminant at 4:26 PM on March 11, 2008


    Though, due to a combination of cheapness and laziness I've just used the "anonymous" feature instead.
    posted by small_ruminant at 4:30 PM on March 11, 2008


    jessamyn, cortex: By u.n. owen's own admission, innocentBystander doesn't use his account anymore - she does. I'm kind of confused as to why his account's still active. Is u.n. owen really deserving of the benefit of the doubt that she won't use IB's account?
    posted by item at 4:30 PM on March 11, 2008


    warning: previous comment contains ugly, awkward syntax.
    posted by item at 4:31 PM on March 11, 2008


    Dave, I get the impression that you feel strongly... about something.... can you just come right out and make yourself clear? All this beating around the bush doesn't help anyone.
    posted by pineapple at 4:35 PM on March 11, 2008


    Is u.n. owen really deserving of the benefit of the doubt that she won't use IB's account?

    It's not benefit of the doubt here so much as "waiting for a response". Shutting down an account that I'm hoping for a mefimail response from would be silly, in other words, though I rather doubt we'll see much onsite activity from IB in the interim.

    Aside from a throw-away joke sockpuppet, is there really any legitimate use? For the sake of the community's need and desire for identity security (as amply demonstrated in this thread) I'd suggest it's "no."

    Personally, I don't really disagree with you. In practice, we're likely to take these things on an as-they-come basis, so if what you're hoping for is a hardline declaration followed by a systematic mass-banning of known and suspected socks, you're going to be disappointed.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 4:43 PM on March 11, 2008


    We are all of us rough-hewn cogs (also some shitass looney borderline personality disorder psychic vampire basketcases who make even this callused wino shiver in sympathetic douche chills) in a marvelous machine (and that's fine with me).

    Do you ever get that I feel for someone who's being a weirdo/jerk thing and have it battle your sincere righteous indignation? Can that be adjusted somehow?
    posted by Divine_Wino at 4:47 PM on March 11, 2008 [2 favorites]


    (waits to hear if Jessamyn gets paid back by InnocentBystander in coupons for I Can't Believe It's Not Butter!).

    HURF DURF INTERNET FRAUD ORGY!
    posted by Unicorn on the cob at 4:49 PM on March 11, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Divine_Wino, I find that the two sometimes collide, fumble about in the dark for a bit, and come back out merged together into a sort of sighing pragmatism that desperately needs a cigarette. Also: rough-hewn clogs.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 4:54 PM on March 11, 2008


    Best Metatalk thread ever. Glad I spent 3 days going through it and its related threads.

    *inserts ILOVETHISTHREADSOMUCH.jpg*
    posted by m0nm0n at 5:32 PM on March 11, 2008


    I've got the exact pair Cortex, except mine say my government name burned in by a soldering iron, apparently if your grandma is Swedish you get those shits on some kind of government stipend around age five, they're wicked uncomfortable. Also yeah, I'm due three or four Camel Lights when I walk the dog.
    posted by Divine_Wino at 5:38 PM on March 11, 2008


    I've followed the sansgras threads and call-outs since the beginning, so it was more an issue of checking up every once in a while to see what else has transpired. Except now my strong curiosity about past scandals and to be "in" on all the in-jokes is clashing with my desire to pass my courses. Do I follow the multitudes of u.n. owen threads or do I prepare for tomorrow's presentation?

    Sigh.
    posted by Phire at 5:43 PM on March 11, 2008


    This is freaking great! This is the like THE MEGATHREAD! Can we talk about givewell now, too?

    Weee! Silenced all my life!!
    posted by dirtdirt at 6:03 PM on March 11, 2008


    Additionally, I will not be monitoring this thread, because last time, it made me pretty depressed for a long time.

    Now that is total bullshit. She will be hitting reload along with the rest of us.
    posted by These Premises Are Alarmed at 6:09 PM on March 11, 2008 [2 favorites]


    She will be hitting reload along with the rest of us.

    She probably has another "previously owned" account all ready to go and is deciding how best to deploy it.
    posted by amyms at 6:14 PM on March 11, 2008


    Man, Metafilter IS still enjoyable!
    posted by Kafkaesque at 6:19 PM on March 11, 2008 [2 favorites]


    Man, Metafilter IS still Kafkaesque!
    posted by tkolar at 6:31 PM on March 11, 2008 [1 favorite]


    I've been using Lentrohamsanin's account, but it's cool because he's my lived in lover. We share the same pants and everything.
    posted by PinkStainlessTail at 6:33 PM on March 11, 2008


    PST, you should get a free pass for pretty much anything wicked you do since you sang Jingle Rock Bell. I still listen every Christmas.
    posted by sugarfish at 6:38 PM on March 11, 2008


    he's my lived in lover

    Lived in? As in the euphemism for 'used'?

    As in the kind you find in a second-hand store?

    ♫ Raaaaaaaaspberry beret. ♫
    posted by CKmtl at 7:02 PM on March 11, 2008


    Too soon!
    posted by cior at 7:32 PM on March 11, 2008


    cior, that's not cool. seriously not cool.
    posted by miss lynnster at 7:45 PM on March 11, 2008


    (but yeah, I'm a sap)
    posted by cior at 7:46 PM on March 11, 2008


    New Rules of Metafilter:

    new rule #1. You don't talk about sansgras.
    new rule #2. You don't talk about sansgras.
    new rule #3. sangras can only use metafilter through a hole in a sheet.

    this is all rather silly.
    posted by wantwit at 7:46 PM on March 11, 2008


    not cool? I donated.

    It's ridiculously unfortunate timing, that's all. Perhaps something for us all to chew on, morally speaking, in light of this thread.
    posted by cior at 7:48 PM on March 11, 2008


    Perhaps something for us all to chew on, morally speaking, in light of this thread.

    I think so- I don't think it was wrong of you to bring it to Metatalk, anyway.
    posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:51 PM on March 11, 2008 [1 favorite]


    I saw the nickyskye site in Projects and it broke my heart that someone so warm and gracious would find herself most in need right at the time that the un owen crap resurfaced. I hope like hell that nickyskye finds herself with an extra $250 in groceries courtesy of un owen (I'd hope even more that the original "creditors" would get their money back as well, but since I'm sure some of them are long gone I think it would be fitting if any unclaimed money were to go to someone who represents the best of MeFi rather than staying in the hands of someone who represents the worst.)
    posted by stefanie at 8:02 PM on March 11, 2008 [6 favorites]


    Wasn't the u.n.owen account actually opened up by someone else, too, and she assumed "ownership" of it later as well?

    Bartered for a gmail address no less. Although, like apparently everything else in her life or that comes out of her mouth, I suspect that's bullshit.
    posted by jerseygirl at 8:05 PM on March 11, 2008


    I find it on one hand distasteful for Nickyskye to have been brought up in this particular thread. It's clear to me as a regular reader (and rather more sporadic participant) that her situation and her place in this community is nothing, nothing like certain others mentioned above. On the other hand, I didn't know about her page before, and I'm grateful that it's now got my attention.
    posted by houseofdanie at 8:06 PM on March 11, 2008


    PinkStainlessTail!
    posted by item at 8:14 PM on March 11, 2008


    miss lynnster wrote...
    cior, that's not cool. seriously not cool.

    I disagree. It's too easy while wading through this muck to forget that there are genuine people in need of genuine help in the world.
    posted by tkolar at 8:43 PM on March 11, 2008


    Everyone needs a hug. BARKEEP! HUGS! All aroun'. and another Jameson for me.

    Whatchoo lookin' at?! C'mere, gimme a hug. I won't throw up on your fav'rit T shirt, promise.
    posted by not_on_display at 8:44 PM on March 11, 2008


    Yo, seriously, if any of you want to do right by a fucking super righteous awesome magic special member of metafilter who isn't pulling any kind of bullshit and deserves all of our love and any kind of friendly contributions, please check this out here. That's Nickyskye and she's fucking well important.
    posted by Divine_Wino at 8:51 PM on March 11, 2008 [4 favorites]


    I'm very glad to have seen the Nickyskye link -- I wouldn't have seen it otherwise.

    Mods: can we consider it for the sidebar?
    posted by scody at 9:06 PM on March 11, 2008


    You people amaze me.

    U,N.Owen/Innocentbystander is a real person, with feelings. Apparently she managed to piss off a bunch of you four years ago.

    Four years is a long time, particularly for someone young. I'd like to see the Brand New Day policy liberally applied. And for those of you who gave her money, well, people, this is the internet and you had to know that such is always a risk-that is the nature of the beast.

    I don't know and I frankly do not care who was right and who was wrong four years ago. I know that I certainly am not the same person who was banned back in 2002, and altho I am not universally beloved I still feel I have a place here. How's about we give her a chance to do likewise?

    (And yes, I have corresponded with her privately, and at length-and no, I'm not sharing. But I think she deserves a chance to redeem herself. If it takes a fresh user name, whatever. I personally think they should let her keep innocentbystander especially since we all know it is her now anyway. But whatever.)

    Remember, it's really pretty easy to get one's internet rep trashed whether or not it's deserved...treat her like YOU would like to be treated, folks.
    posted by konolia at 9:35 PM on March 11, 2008


    treat her like YOU would like to be treated, folks

    But people already did that. And look where it got them.
    posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 9:44 PM on March 11, 2008 [2 favorites]


    You people amaze me.

    U,N.Owen/Innocentbystander is a real person, with feelings.


    Yes, well, we are pretty fucking amazing.

    Did you bother to read any of the many, many well-linked posts that document the fairly awesome swath this person has cut across the 'net in her very purple travels? I don't have any sense at all as you apparently do that this is anything close to a "real" person, much less one that has any meaningful feelings at all.

    However, in the spirit of making this thread immortal, I think we should all send her our house keys and detailed directions to our homes and put up big colorful banners in our foyers reading "HEY THERE'S FROZEN BURRITOS IF YOU WANT!" Then in our profiles we can all include a touching story about how un owen touched each of our lives, our burritos, and our valuables.
    posted by Skot at 9:49 PM on March 11, 2008 [4 favorites]


    Oh, I've glanced at the pile, yes.

    I have no proof that ANY of you all are real. Except for Nicky, who I have talked to. I'd rather just think the best and let the rest go.
    posted by konolia at 9:56 PM on March 11, 2008 [1 favorite]


    I don't know and I frankly do not care who was right and who was wrong four years ago. I know that I certainly am not the same person who was banned back in 2002, and altho I am not universally beloved I still feel I have a place here. How's about we give her a chance to do likewise?

    Hmmm. No.

    I swear, if there's one person here that would still fall for her manipulative bullshit after all this, it figures it'd be you.
    posted by puke & cry at 10:00 PM on March 11, 2008 [5 favorites]


    Frankly, konolia, I think Brand New Day only goes so far, and I think U.N. Owen is well past that point. As far as I am concerned, she is persona non grata. This is not my decision, obviously, but I think there's a point where someone has disrespected a community enough that they are best shoved out the door for good.

    You say, well, maybe she's changed. And you know? You're right, and you are indeed an excellent example of that.

    I lurked here for many, many years before I actually signed up, and I remember your previous incarnation. I think that banning was right, and I wasn't happy when I realized, eventually, just who "konolia" was. I thought and think that letting you back was a bad call based on the info at the time, and was far more likely to lead to further bad than not. Now, let me be clear: That hasn't happened in my opinion. If you even notice me, as I am still very much a lurker, you'll notice I am FAR from a fan of yours, but I am the first to agree that yes, you have a place here, and I'm glad you're here... most of the time ;-)

    But that's hardly the most likely scenario. We don't consciously "Brand New Day" spammers, scammers, self-linkers, blatant and intentional trolls, etc., and for good reason. 99% of the time, they'll do nothing more than commit the same offenses they once did. ESPECIALLY if they are surreptitiously sneaking around a ban, knowing full well they're violating several written and unwritten site rules in the process, making it extremely clear where they feel about respecting the site.

    I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure "konolia" never did that, and the mods (mod singular at that point?) knew who she is, and who she WAS.

    U.N. Owen had her chance, and she took advantage of us. And when asked to leave? She just snuck on as another user and kept up her little masturbatory fabulist nonsense.

    I appreciate where you come from, Konolia, but the U.N. Owen situation is not the bf situation.
    posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 10:04 PM on March 11, 2008 [1 favorite]


    it's really pretty easy to get one's internet rep trashed whether or not it's deserved

    That's an interesting point, though not one that I agree with. I've said many times that "he/she deserved it" isn't cause for crappy behavior towards people. On the other hand, I'm not inclined to extend any special courtesy to someone who seems to act with disregard for the guidelines and norms of the site. The $20 thing was a joke, I kissed that money goodbye a long time ago. However, if u.n. owen was sincere about saying she'd pay folks back eventually, then perhaps she should.

    We give people second and third chances for all sorts of things but many of them involve drunkenness, major life changes, unusual crabbiness or something that was out of control that was now in control. Most of the time it involves an apology or a "gee that was messed up, sorry about that" which makes forgiveness a whole lot easier.

    I'm willing to go a long way credulousness-wise for people who seem to be making an effort, who contribute as much or more than they take from the site, and who don't just seem to exist to stir shit up. Major drama members are exhausting from a moderator perspective and I guess I wind up asking "what's the upside?" in this instance. Doesn't mean people should be total dicks about it, but doesn't mean I'm going to bend over backwards to smooth everything over either.
    posted by jessamyn (staff) at 10:04 PM on March 11, 2008 [2 favorites]


    I have no proof that ANY of you all are real.

    Please stop this. Yes you do. Many of us are real people with trackable online and offline lives, addresses, contact information, photos, friends and lovers, and consistent personalities. This sort of hyperbole doesn't help anyone straighten any of this out.
    posted by jessamyn (staff) at 10:07 PM on March 11, 2008 [15 favorites]


    I have no proof that ANY of you all are real.



    Yes you do


    Well, actually that particular comment was a bit facetious....sorry.
    posted by konolia at 10:15 PM on March 11, 2008 [1 favorite]


    I'm starting to get the urge to construct a fictional web persona in order to give everyone a the thrill of a MeFi bloodhound chase AND get a long, detailed, link-rich MeFi Wiki page. Of course... I might have been doing that all along. Suckers.
    posted by orange swan at 10:15 PM on March 11, 2008


    Let me make one more comment before I bow out and get some shuteye-in the ministry I am training in I see person after person after person with totally frakked up convoluted personal lives so when I see folks post similar things here I assume they are telling the truth-or at least that it isn't stretching things that what they are saying CAN easily BE true. And if I err I would rather err on the side of belief rather than disbelief (Unless money or safety is involved and then I do tend to try to behave with due diligence.)
    posted by konolia at 10:19 PM on March 11, 2008


    treat her like YOU would like to be treated, folks.

    This kind of works two ways. If I'd been banned from a community for scamming money from its members, I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't have the gall to try and force them to accept me against their will by actually living and posting among them all that time, just as though nothing had happened. Partly because I'd be too ashamed of myself, partly because I'd be pretty damn sure that nobody would want anything to do with me.

    Why anyone would actually *want* to be part of a community that regards them as a pariah, I've no idea, but it seems pretty peculiar to me. However, this I will say: secretly posting from someone else's account for four years, when you know that you've been banned doesn't actually strike me as someone that's keen to turn over a new leaf. Rather, it strikes me as the same old manipulative, over-entitled bullshit that got her into trouble in the first place.

    Treat her like I'd like to be treated? Personally, if I behaved that way, I'd want people to shun me. For my own good. To give me the opportunity to start afresh with a community where I wasn't notorious for my dishonesty.

    Your mileage may vary.
    posted by PeterMcDermott at 10:20 PM on March 11, 2008 [2 favorites]


    treat her like YOU would like to be treated, folks.

    In all instances in life, the way I would like to be treated is "as awesomely as possible". Treating people awesomely who behave like douches reinforces that it's okay to act like a douche, and I'd really prefer if people didn't get the idea that acting like an ass is somehow acceptable. Rather than treat her how I'd like to be treated, I think that she should be treated fairly: that is, if you screw up AND apologize AND make a physical effort to undo the damage AND stop the behavior, then clearly you're not a douche and you can be given a second chance. If all you do is show up and say "I bet alot of you were different at 24 than you were at 20" then it doesn't even seem like you think you did anything wrong, and to treat you as awesomely as possible would only reinforce the negative behavior that you won't even own up to.
    posted by 23skidoo at 10:37 PM on March 11, 2008


    Forgiveness cannot be granted without contrition.
    posted by Tenuki at 10:43 PM on March 11, 2008 [4 favorites]


    We give people second and third chances for all sorts of things but many of them involve drunkenness

    Awesome because I'm drunk right now and this thread is hilarious. I think I deserve a second chance though.
    posted by ludwig_van at 10:45 PM on March 11, 2008


    Er, we're not talking about throwing u.n. owen to the lions here. If she gets banned from MeFi I'm sure she can find some other place to hang out online. Or sneak back in... I so do not envy the mods here. So I'd support a decision to ban her. It's of little consequence to her and "addition by subtraction" for us. I like that we can bear and forebear with people struggling with addiction and mental health problems who sometimes don't behave well. But tolerating someone who habitually lies and scams us? No way.
    posted by orange swan at 10:53 PM on March 11, 2008


    cortex we've been steadily building up our toolset for detecting fishy inter-account hijinks.

    All is known to mathowie and to him we must entrust the protection of our identities.
    posted by James I at 10:55 PM on March 11, 2008


    U,N.Owen/Innocentbystander is a real person, with feelings. Apparently she managed to piss off a bunch of you four years ago.

    Well, I won't presume to speak for anyone else, but as a robotic super-ape, I say to hell with these real people and their carbon-based feelings.

    treat her like YOU would like to be treated, folks.

    I'd like to be treated like I'd learned my lesson, which was mostly to not embellish anecdotal doilies into lace afghans while the, I dunno, some kinda metaphorical cat what eats embroidery or something, is around.

    The metaphoric cat being the detective squad here, obviously.

    Anyway, away from the rhetorical torture, I was talking with another member about how prevarication and drama can take over someone's life. And I mean, yeah, doing a brief perusal of some of the anecdotes I've shared here, you'll be able to find inconsistencies, either intentional or accidental. Blame marijuana, fluid memory and an occasional shade of the truth to keep from disclosing a confidence or the source thereof.

    But I remember embellishing quasi-intentionally, especially in high school. It's one of those things that gets away from you, retelling a story where something shifts from "wouldn't it have been cool if" to it happening, or something that gets blurted out, a misperception that's wrong in hindsight but more interesting than the truth. It sucks to have to correct those, to say to friends, "No, that's not actually what happened." It's even worse with some of my old buddies, because their takes on things that happened to me are now spun off into their memories as cinematic adventures, and correcting them makes their faces sink. But it's worth doing, I think. I mean, that way I don't have to feel guilty or weird, and I like to tell myself that it makes me appreciate the potential for interesting things in real life more.

    And, if I might (at the bottom of a weird, long MeTa that I hope no one ever reads) humiliate myself a little bit here, I had an internet "relationship" with some girl who called herself "LA" (real name: "Lauren") who was on a Stabbing Westward AOL message board while I was in high school. We used to chat and do the weird long-distance relationship thing, except we'd never met and most of it was me being enthralled by her stories of overcoming childhood abuse and her drug addictions and how damn dirty she could be in a way that my high school brain found really compelling (I like to think that I wouldn't now, but that's arguably because I got burned). The weirdest detail that sticks out for me now is that she claimed to be on the television show "All That" on Nickelodeon, something that I suppose I could have checked out a bit more than I did.

    Anyway, she was always at the center of some drama or another, and it all unraveled when she "cheated" on me with some other guy from the message board. Which is when it came out that she was, like, 14 and a liar (which made the naked pictures suddenly really creepy, even to my 18-year-old brain). Man, was I a fucking chump.

    But she never came clean publicly. It was all these IMs and different stories to different people and it basically destroyed this community of about 20 people (hard as it is to imagine 20 people who cared about Stabbing Westward enough to be on a message board about them).

    That's what all feels hinky about this—the lack of that moment where everything's out and public knowledge about what's going on and what different people know and, I guess, just the public acknowledgment of lying and taking the lumps that come with it. I mean, sure, Jeanette may have felt terrible about the things that people said about her here, and she may have been depressed for a long time afterwards, but that's still not the sort of Truth Commission that lets people feel like they can have unguarded moments around her again.

    I dunno. Maybe it's just me.

    But I'm having trouble treating her like I'd like to be treated.
    posted by klangklangston at 11:08 PM on March 11, 2008 [14 favorites]


    But I'm having trouble treating her like I'd like to be treated.

    This is a problematic concept anyway. Hell, I'd like you all to chip in for a retirement/house on the Riviera fund for me.
    posted by orange swan at 11:15 PM on March 11, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Well said, klangklangston.
    posted by tkolar at 11:18 PM on March 11, 2008


    I'm 100% cool with treating her as I'd like to be treated. When I do something bad or stupid, please don't encourage or enable me; don't flatter me with attention for bad behavior; don't ever let me wallow in a muck of egocentric mania - and if I do, please don't ever get in there and roll around with me. If I try to take advantage of you, please kick me in the ass hard.
    posted by taz at 11:39 PM on March 11, 2008 [16 favorites]


    Yah, whatever the merits of the current case ... most people treat themselves like crap. The aphorism should probably be "treat others as you probably should like to be treated, but don't because you're a masochist."
    posted by tkolar at 11:49 PM on March 11, 2008 [3 favorites]


    I think to not embellish anecdotal doilies into lace afghans

    Yeah, I'm not a "teen dominatrix with a yen for Brits" anymore, though the handle never changed. Man, those mid nineties were great for teen libertines.

    konolia, most mefites, in my experience, are HELL of real. Like will-give-you-a-backrub and buy you a martini real.
    posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 11:49 PM on March 11, 2008


    I'm 100% cool with treating her as I'd like to be treated. When I do something bad or stupid, please don't encourage or enable me; don't flatter me with attention for bad behavior; don't ever let me wallow in a muck of egocentric mania - and if I do, please don't ever get in there and roll around with me. If I try to take advantage of you, please kick me in the ass hard.

    Jebus fucking Christ on a stick, why the hell is this suddenly all about you?

    *kicks taz hard for being such an egocentrist*

    *then buys her a martini & gives her a backrub; in that order*
    posted by UbuRoivas at 12:05 AM on March 12, 2008


    (but that's just because i'm a masochist who wants to be kicked back, before getting in there and rolling around with her)
    posted by UbuRoivas at 12:07 AM on March 12, 2008


    UbuRoivas, martini and a backrub?

    I was very interested.
    /me then sees masochist comment and wishes luck to anyone who dares to try to mess around with Taz.
    Taz is a badass in the nicest way.
    posted by lilywing13 at 12:22 AM on March 12, 2008


    badass in the nicest way sounds good!
    posted by UbuRoivas at 12:25 AM on March 12, 2008


    mmm... ass-punts, backrubs and early-morning martinis on the metatalk... *sings*

    you-uuuuu make me feel so reeeeaaaaal
    posted by taz at 12:32 AM on March 12, 2008


    When the masochist says "hurt me" the true sadist says "no."
    posted by Joseph Gurl at 12:49 AM on March 12, 2008 [9 favorites]


    Hi. I'm here for the backrub I saw advertised?
    posted by loiseau at 2:22 AM on March 12, 2008


    WE CAN HAS BACKRUBS?!
    posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:47 AM on March 12, 2008


    BACKRUBS ALL ROUND!

    AND MARTINIS!
    posted by UbuRoivas at 3:08 AM on March 12, 2008


    Can you do my neck as well? It's got rather stiff sitting here and reading all this. And does anyone want the olive from my martini? Horrible things.
    posted by MrMustard at 3:36 AM on March 12, 2008


    As inappropriate as it is to compare nickyskye to unowen, I'm extremely glad that the projects page was posted here. I don't really go over to projects, so I'd have never seen it otherwise.
    posted by Stewriffic at 4:01 AM on March 12, 2008


    Wow. The thread that just keeps on giving.
    posted by arha at 4:10 AM on March 12, 2008


    But I think she deserves a chance to redeem herself. If it takes a fresh user name, whatever.

    In addition to the other very cogent things that have been said about un owen's distinct lack of remorse or apology in this thread, I think it's worth pointing out that she did have a second chance, a chance to redeem herself. She has been posting here under a name that no one (very few) knew was her. While she didn't ask any of us for money, as far as I know, she did post excessively dramatic threads about her tragedy and trauma, which she moderated. There's no evidence that she's changed at all, she's even still trying to sell her books.

    Now, I don't think that un owen set out (as in joined the site) to defraud MetaFilter before, I think it naturally developed out of the drama that she spun and the response to that drama. So far, with the InnocentBystander account (fabulous name, btw, under the circumstances), we have all of the same drama. That we don't yet have a scam doesn't indicate that un owen has changed. In fact, that we have the drama indicates that she hasn't.
    posted by OmieWise at 4:40 AM on March 12, 2008


    If you send money to an internet beggar, just like a beggar on the street, you shouldn't ever think you'll get it back. If you do, then you're a two-fold sucker.
    posted by Dave Faris at 5:01 AM on March 12, 2008


    don't ever let me wallow in a muck of egocentric mania - and if I do, please don't ever get in there and roll around with me

    Metatalk: egocentric muck wrestling displays. Entry: $5, same as in town.
    posted by PeterMcDermott at 5:30 AM on March 12, 2008


    I hereby award this thread The Spool.
    posted by iconomy at 6:18 AM on March 12, 2008 [5 favorites]


    If we can't trust strangers on the internet, who can we trust?
    posted by drezdn at 6:38 AM on March 12, 2008 [1 favorite]


    If we can't trust strangers on the internet, who can we trust?

    Our governors.
    posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:40 AM on March 12, 2008


    There's two big thoughts I have about the whole thing. If the result of the first shunning depressed u.n. owen so much, why did she come back?

    Secondly, if she had contacted the mods and said "hey, it's me, I fucked up in the past but I'd like a fresh start," and they knew and let her have a new account, while it wouldn't have made everyone happy, I would have understood the mods' decision. They could have kept an eye out for shit-stirring and future trouble. Instead, she "rejoined" in an underhanded way.
    posted by drezdn at 6:42 AM on March 12, 2008


    Finally, I wouldn't be surprised if she had other accounts here.
    posted by drezdn at 6:48 AM on March 12, 2008


    Well, actually that particular comment was a bit facetious....sorry.

    Well, konolia, if you want to be taken seriously, maybe you shouldn't be facetious.
    posted by languagehat at 6:53 AM on March 12, 2008 [1 favorite]


    treat her like YOU would like to be treated, folks.

    To respond to this request in the context in which it may arise: I don't think the Golden Rule should ever be used as a blanket policy for aiding people in people avoiding personal accountability. It's possible to treat someone the way you'd like to be treated if you had duped, defrauded and abused the trust of a community - in other words, firmly and calmly but with no acceptance of their actions and with careful consideration of whether their continued participation is an acceptable outcome. Forgiveness is not the same thing as preventing appropriate consequences.

    Even the Golden Rule's most famous proponent indicates that feeling bad about what you did isn't the grounds for forgiveness, nor is it permission to keep running the same scams or indulging in the same bad behavior. un owen was told "Go, and sin no more [at least to us here]," and apparently ignored the request by setting up another identity. It is possible to forgive a person, yet at the same time deplore and reject her actions.

    I have a really hard time with the idea that this user fradulently took money from MeFites and has, apparently, used it to make her life better (as the litany of recent successes shows). It seems to me that a fair stipulation on any use of the account she has now would be to begin a plan of making restitution to the people who generously gave to what they thought was an important cause. That would go a long way to restoring some of the trust people generally feel in the community, which could make things a lot better in future for all of us who could at any moment find ourselves in a true crisis and wsh to seek support, financial and otherwise, from relationships built here. Trust is high on MetaFilter. Creating a payment schedule, posting it, and beginning to refund the donations user by user would go a long way toward convincing me of a good-faith effort to change, and a long way toward improving the community's sense of mutual trust and willingness to give to worthy causes.
    posted by Miko at 7:05 AM on March 12, 2008 [2 favorites]


    Oops, meant to link the "Go, and sin no more" story
    posted by Miko at 7:06 AM on March 12, 2008


    konolia said: "I think she deserves a chance to redeem herself.... Remember, it's really pretty easy to get one's internet rep trashed whether or not it's deserved...treat her like YOU would like to be treated, folks. ...in the ministry I am training in... if I err I would rather err on the side of belief rather than disbelief (Unless money or safety is involved and then I do tend to try to behave with due diligence.)"

    One, I think we can safely say that money is in fact involved here, so there's that.

    Two, no, in fact it's not that easy to get one's internet rep trashed whether or not it's deserved. Thousands, millions? of people interact with others on the internet every single day and do not manage to create one-tenth the level of ire and outrage that this person did. She really had to work for it. It's disingenuous to try and minimize her inflammatory history at this and other sites by implying that it happens all the time and that she didn't really deserve it.

    Three: with all respect due, konolia, your position is clearly one of a person of a certain level and flavor of religious faith. In that case, the Golden Rule and granting the benefit of the doubt, even in the face of overwhelming evidence that a person hasn't changed or still intends to do bad things or what-have-you, are surely the best courses of action... for you. Or someone who prescribes to your brand of religion.

    But while it might be what works for you, it's not going to work for everyone, because we don't all operate on the same belief system. Explaining that this is what you have chosen to do and why is one thing, but you're not going to catch many flies here by suggesting that All Good People would forgive and forget and let bygones be bygones.

    Lastly, as drezdn basically just pointed out, this person has always had the Brand New Day option. Always. Anyone can rejoin MeFi under a new name, and even a new IP if they want to go far. All they have to do is get here and act right. That IB/UN hasn't been willing or able to do so says more about her than it does about MetaFilter.

    Postscript: my gut tells me that the age thing is a lie. I don't believe she was 20 then or is 24 now. I haven't combed the histories, mostly because most of the sites where she was active are offensive to me, usually from a design perspective, so I can't be arsed. But as far as I can tell, we don't know anything to be legitimate or factual about this person, and therefore clinging to the plank of "well, she was so young and stupid then, people can mature" seems irrational to me. (Though, if anyone can demonstrate a place where her age was "proved" to some sort of standard that holds up to common sense, I'll retract.)

    Post-post-script: This is totally a Historical Thread, Best of MetaTalk. We start by trying to suss out sansgras, who doesn't pass the sniff test because of the previous antics of posters like u.n. owen and internet scammers like Kaycee Nicole... and then, as if summoned like Beatlejuice, it is revealed that "u.n. owen" has been posing as another user and has been secretly walking amongst us for years.

    Most importantly: it is a microcosmic proof, to me, that even though I have grown "too old for this shit" in my decade online, and despite my belief that I have carefully selected internet spaces to spend time where Teh DRaMa!!!¡¡ doesn't live... that it will always live, no matter the space, because there will always be people who cannot resist the siren song of trying to be important or win cred among a bunch of faceless strangers by lying and asking for attention. Not even MetaFilter is safe.

    So there's my afterschool-special-style Moral Takeaway.
    posted by pineapple at 7:20 AM on March 12, 2008 [15 favorites]


    So who all is going to the wrap party?
    posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:30 AM on March 12, 2008


    Excellent comment, pineapple. Wow.
    posted by orange swan at 7:34 AM on March 12, 2008


    Oooh! Pick me!

    Excellent comment, pineapple. I hope if IB is following this thread zealously as many of us believe she is, she'll get the point that actions, not time, heal all wounds.
    posted by Phire at 7:34 AM on March 12, 2008


    Being laid up with flu for a few days has me following this more closely than regular day to day activities would allow, so after reading IB's recent posting history, I got to say, ick.
    Is she a phone sex worker? Did a "client" buy her a new sex toy?

    I would like to think that people here are trying to communicate something, to connect with others, and also make me laugh. (I gotta say that whole nazi frogmen thing, pure genius)
    I don't like too many postings thrown in just for the sake of someone's personal drama.

    Now imagine I have a world-weary voice (post flu Suzanne Pleshette-esque voice, in fact), and I say, yes I have done things that I am not proud of, have had to reavaluate things, make changes, apologize. So I have some sympathy for someone going through it - but I'm just not feeling it in this case.
    posted by readery at 7:41 AM on March 12, 2008


    "HEY THERE'S FROZEN BURRITOS IF YOU WANT!" Then in our profiles we can all include a touching story about how un owen touched each of our lives, our burritos, and our valuables

    i have Skot's burrito. in my pants.
    posted by quonsar at 7:46 AM on March 12, 2008


    summoned like Beatlejuice

    dhoyt, dhoyt, dhoyt!!!!
    posted by mygothlaundry at 7:46 AM on March 12, 2008


    Amen taz. Stupid should hurt, my own stupidity even more so.
    posted by Skorgu at 7:54 AM on March 12, 2008


    This thread has everything: epic highs! Wallow-in-filth lows! A denouement or two, and of course, the opportunity to help Nickyskye, whose struggles I myself relate to (having had a baby sister with thyroid cancer at 19, girl, you have my sympathy and soon to be some money/gifts).

    I dub thee, legendary thread.
    posted by Unicorn on the cob at 8:18 AM on March 12, 2008 [2 favorites]


    Sockpuppetry and identity shenanigans really are a scourge on Metafilter, and the sooner we crack the nut and come up with a way to prevent it, we will replay this passion play every few months. But, judging by the glee some of you show for this sort of stuff, I expect that solving the problem will have social impediments, too.
    posted by Dave Faris at 8:33 AM on March 12, 2008


    I'm always amazed how visceral the reaction to konolia entering a thread can be here.

    konolia: I like beets.

    fifty commenters: Well, YOU WOULD SAY THAT WOULDN'T YOU YOU FILTHY RELIGIOUS TYPE! YOUR SAVIOR WAS A HAMSTER AND HIS MOTHER SMELT OF ELDERBERRIES!

    konolia: I'm just saying that beets are delicious and I'm happy Jesus made them.

    fifty commenters: BEETS ARE EEVL YOU BIGOT

    konolia: Well, I stand behind that comment because it's in the Bible.

    miko: Let me interject here a thoughtful, decent-and-in-order comment rebuking konolia for suggesting that beets are even in the Bible, because they're not, and anyway, while I appreciate that you like beets, you can't assume the rest of the world does. [134 favorites +]

    fifty commenters: YEAH YOU SHOW HER BEETS IS EEVL LET'S KICK HER OUT FOR LIKING BEETS AND BEING A BIGOT BUT MAINLY FOR LIKING BEETS

    jessamyn: Look, folks, been there, done that, can we all move on?

    fifty commenters: AAAAAH NO FAIR

    cortex: Honestly guys. Chill and have a delicious beet-flavored doughnut.

    fifty commenters: MMM YOU KNOW BEETS REALLY ARE DELICIOUS! CURSES! FOILED AGAIN!

    konolia: And they're the color of Jesus' blood that he shed on the cross.

    fifty commenters: YEARRRRRGHH!!!!!
    posted by dw at 8:34 AM on March 12, 2008 [70 favorites]


    This thread has everything: epic highs! Wallow-in-filth lows! A denouement or two, and of course, the opportunity to help Nickyskye

    It even already has that graphic you linked to.
    posted by OmieWise at 8:35 AM on March 12, 2008 [1 favorite]


    dw said: "I'm always amazed how visceral the reaction to konolia entering a thread can be here."

    I wouldn't say this one has been visceral... nor would I say that it's merely entering a thread that causes the reaction. Seems to be the entering a thread and prescribing or proscribing behavior based on her personal religious beliefs, which ends up generating all the response.

    Still, funny summary though.
    posted by pineapple at 8:49 AM on March 12, 2008


    Let me interject here a thoughtful, decent-and-in-order comment

    Man, one day I need to just go apeshit. No telling when.
    posted by Miko at 8:51 AM on March 12, 2008 [26 favorites]


    the sooner we crack the nut and come up with a way to prevent it, we will replay this passion play every few months.

    We know who most of the sock puppets are (we think) and most of the time the problems stem from something else that just has sock puppetry as a side issue. With sansgras, for example, the issue isn't sock puppetry but general community distrust. With the u.n. owen thing, the problem has more to do with intentional deception and misuse of community resources. We have a policy on sock puppetry that works well most of the time. We also allow users to be pretty anonymous. I think the anonymity issue is generally more the problem than sock puppetry, though I don't think it's enough of a scourge that it needs to change the way we do things here. Seriously, do you have a suggestion along these lines?

    Many of the big freakouts in Meta over the last maybe six months have had nothing to do with sock puppetry or identity stuff at all.
    posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:51 AM on March 12, 2008


    Seems to be the entering a thread and prescribing or proscribing behavior based on her personal religious beliefs

    She did not say, I feel this way because of my personal religious belief. She simply gave her opinion on the subject of this thread. Nothing she said was off-topic, it was the responses that brought in all the other baggage. Some of you really need to let go.
    posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:53 AM on March 12, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Metafilter: I need to just go apeshit.
    posted by Skot at 8:55 AM on March 12, 2008


    Seems to be the entering a thread and prescribing or proscribing behavior based on her personal religious beliefs, which ends up generating all the response.

    but of course, if she entered a thread prescribing or proscribing behavior based on a personal preference for lesbian sado-masochistic scatology, the response would be overwhelmingly favorable.

    i like beets.
    posted by quonsar at 8:59 AM on March 12, 2008 [1 favorite]


    She simply gave her opinion on the subject of this thread. Nothing she said was off-topic, it was the responses that brought in all the other baggage.

    While I agree that there was nothing overtly religious about her comments, her tone was one of righteous reasonableness, but she was being entirely unreasonable in her interpretation of u.n. owen's actions here. The kind of misreading she made is strange, unless one reasonably attributes to konolia a desire to express her personal morals and convictions through her stance re. u.n. owen, in which case it makes much more sense.
    posted by OmieWise at 9:01 AM on March 12, 2008 [2 favorites]


    We know who most of the sock puppets are

    Not if we have a double agent feeding you bad doughnuts info.
    posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:10 AM on March 12, 2008


    While I agree that there was nothing overtly religious about her comments, her tone was one of righteous reasonableness but she was being entirely unreasonable in her interpretation of u.n. owen's actions here.

    I think that's overstating it- I've read the comment several times (that's the one we're talking about, right?) and it reads as a reasonable opinion on the subject to me, though one easy to disagree with.
    posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:12 AM on March 12, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Beets suck.

    Turnips rule.
    posted by BitterOldPunk at 9:15 AM on March 12, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Few expected during that initial discussion that the Great Beet Wars of 2010 would leave over 1.6 billion dead and over a third of the world's land mass uninhabitable by either beet or man...
    posted by Krrrlson at 9:16 AM on March 12, 2008 [4 favorites]


    That's not the only comment I'm talking about.

    She did not say, I feel this way because of my personal religious belief. She simply gave her opinion on the subject of this thread. Nothing she said was off-topic, it was the responses that brought in all the other baggage. Some of you really need to let go.

    Nor did I say that's what she did here, if you'll review my comment responding to dw. Although I don't agree that "you people amaze me," which smacks of pious judgment, is "simply giving her opinion."

    Nor did I ever imply that she was off-topic -- although, it doesn't take much of a leap to suggest that if one wants to say "in my ministry we do things like this so at MetaFilter I act like this," it is basically stating "I feel/behave this way because of my personal religious belief."

    dw appeared to be speaking in general, and I responded in general; I stand by my comment that "the entering a thread and prescribing or proscribing behavior based on [konolia's] personal religious beliefs [is what] ends up generating all the response." In general. Wish and hope for it to be so but this particular thread doesn't exist in a vacuum.

    konolia clearly loves to reference her faith and belief; fair play to her, etc. etc. What I don't get is the perspective that reads to me as "...and no one can have an opinion or feeling about her tendency to do that." I'd also argue that if one is a person who wants to flaunt one's ministry at MetaFilter even despite a long and colorful posting history filled with people not appreciating your style of religious proselytizing, actually that's how the baggage gets brought into the thread.
    posted by pineapple at 9:20 AM on March 12, 2008


    fifty commenters: YEARRRRRGHH!!!!!

    Questions of accuracy aside, I have to admit that I'm always pretty entertained by thread recaps.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 9:23 AM on March 12, 2008


    Nothing she said was off-topic

    So? It's not immune from criticism either, which you seem to be suggesting everything she says should be. Just because konolia has been unfairly vilified for her religion does not make her a MetaFilter Saint whose every word should be accepted in grateful silence. She has a right to state her opinion that we should all give u.n.owen a break, and we have a right to state our opinion that she's full of shit (for reasons entirely unrelated to her religious beliefs).
    posted by languagehat at 9:30 AM on March 12, 2008 [2 favorites]


    Seriously, do you have a suggestion along these lines?

    Seriously, he just likes being a grump.
    posted by languagehat at 9:30 AM on March 12, 2008


    a little religious proselytizing provides a nice balance in the midst of a tsunami of secular proselytizing.
    posted by quonsar at 9:31 AM on March 12, 2008


    I'd like my religious proselytizing to come with a side of pickled beets, please.

    mmmmm.....beeeeeeeeets.
    posted by rtha at 9:34 AM on March 12, 2008


    When life hands you beets, you make borscht.
    posted by Krrrlson at 9:35 AM on March 12, 2008


    do you have a suggestion along these lines?

    No. Like I said, it's a nut that needs cracking, but you would know better than I that there's no foolproof method of preventing it. UN Owen, for example, would have skirted a rule about one u.i.d, one paypal account. And tracking IPs is only but so practical these days with mobile computing. I'm at as much of a loss as to how to deal with it as you are. I guess I would start by banning all the sockpuppets you know about, since no one has come up with a reasonable use for them besides the rare askme that is too embarrassing even for an anonymous submission. But I also realize I'm an extremist about the issue.
    posted by Dave Faris at 9:54 AM on March 12, 2008 [1 favorite]


    While I agree that there was nothing overtly religious about her comments, her tone was one of righteous reasonableness but she was being entirely unreasonable in her interpretation of u.n. owen's actions here.
    I think that's overstating it- I've read the comment several times (that's the one we're talking about, right?) and it reads as a reasonable opinion on the subject to me, though one easy to disagree with.


    Yeah, I'm going to have to say that as a person with no konolia/bunnyfire related baggage, her comment doesn't seem to be much more than a reasonable call for compassion and the suggestion that four years might have changed something in a person.

    Except the first line.

    The first line ("You people amaze me.") is pretty much a personal attack on the posters to this thread.

    I believe I can reasonably expand the statement to: "The opinions that are being expressed in this thread are so far out of line with my expectations that I am amazed. Furthermore, I am not just amazed by the opinions expressed, but by the very nature of the people who could express those opinions." This is the kind of stuff that gets people in a huff.

    I'm guessing that what konolia meant was "Some of the opinions being expressed here amaze me." That's nice and specific, doesn't lump every poster in the thread into the same bucket, and keeps the focus on the opinions instead of the people. But the very fact that I read it that way is why konolia's "tone" has never particularly bothered me.

    And in truth, I suspect the fact that other readers can't get past konolia's tone has a lot more to do with their personal history with her than any real outrage at the way she expresses herself. I suspect that even if she were to be more specific and less personal there would still be a certain percentage of people here calling her out on everything she wrote.
    posted by tkolar at 9:56 AM on March 12, 2008 [1 favorite]


    And thanks for that dismissive interjection, Languagehat. It's comments like that that make metafilter so great.
    posted by Dave Faris at 9:57 AM on March 12, 2008


    How much more human suffering will it take until we realize that only a professional-looking white background to this website will make these problems go away.
    posted by chinston at 10:02 AM on March 12, 2008 [3 favorites]


    And does anyone want the olive from my martini? Horrible things.

    Try a Gibson.

    And can I just say that it was a MeFite who brought me around to beets? I'd always hated the damned things, from years of vile holiday dinners where they were served, but Mandyman roasted 'em with a little olive oil and some herbs and they were amazingly delicious.

    So I guess Mandyman shouldn't be banned.
    posted by klangklangston at 10:02 AM on March 12, 2008


    I guess I would start by banning all the sockpuppets you know about, since no one has come up with a reasonable use for them

    Have you not met Kettle or Pot? I'm always happy to see them make an appearance.
    posted by quin at 10:07 AM on March 12, 2008


    I suspect the fact that other readers can't get past konolia's tone has a lot more to do with their personal history with her than any real outrage at the way she expresses herself. I suspect that even if she were to be more specific and less personal there would still be a certain percentage of people here calling her out on everything she wrote.

    While this wasn't directed specifically to me, I would like to address it in the terms of the parts of my comments that were directed at konolia.

    I wasn't around for bunnyfire. What I know about all of it is from a historical perspective is the stuff that gets referenced ex post facto, like in this MeTa.

    What I didn't like about her tone was the suggestion that she knows best for us all. In several places, in this comment, we are outright told how to act, presumably because she has inside information and has a better handle on what is the right way to behave with compassion.

    That's not offensive to me because konolia's religious, but because I think it's rude to suggest that any one person knows what's best for all of MeFi. It's even more irritating when it's coming from someone who has been discouraged in the past from posting comments where she declares herself right and true no matter what.

    I tried to be very gentle in my "we don't all feel the way that you do" response to her, and maybe my mistake was in framing that within a "your perspective is probably informed by your religion" note. But I do not see what I wrote at all as outrage, my personal baggage with her, or me calling her out unreasonably. I realize others might not see what I see, though.

    But it's fairly important to me to point out that I don't care if she worships a god made of beets and guano, and celebrates annually at the Guano Beet God Festival and wants to share her juicy, guano-y testimony with you. I just don't like being finger-wagged and scolded, as if we're all kindergarteners who can't play nice.
    posted by pineapple at 10:17 AM on March 12, 2008 [3 favorites]


    MetaFilter: Wants to share her juicy, guano-y testimony with you.
    posted by Mister_A at 10:27 AM on March 12, 2008


    Also, is there any sort of guano that is not of batly origin? Weirdos want to know.
    posted by Mister_A at 10:28 AM on March 12, 2008


    I just don't like being finger-wagged and scolded, as if we're all kindergarteners who can't play nice.

    awwwww! mommy will hug and make it all better.
    posted by quonsar at 10:34 AM on March 12, 2008


    There's a soy-based substitute you can get called "Guan-Nope". They sell it a Whole Foods. It's not bad, but 1:1 replacement in recipes hasn't worked out great for me so far.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 10:34 AM on March 12, 2008 [7 favorites]


    Encyclopedia Britannica says that seabirds and seals also make it.
    posted by Dave Faris at 10:36 AM on March 12, 2008


    Man, this thread just keeps on giving...
    posted by goo at 10:39 AM on March 12, 2008


    Guano (from the Quechua 'wanu', via Spanish) is the droppings of seabirds, bats, and seals.
    posted by Partial Law at 10:45 AM on March 12, 2008


    Boobys and Cormorants
    posted by adamvasco at 10:46 AM on March 12, 2008


    *doffs hat* to Partial Law.
    posted by adamvasco at 10:48 AM on March 12, 2008


    And thanks for that dismissive interjection, Languagehat.

    Not dismissive, just descriptive. You clearly do enjoy being a grump, otherwise you wouldn't do it so constantly.

    It's comments like that that make metafilter so great.

    Read up on glass houses sometime.
    posted by languagehat at 11:19 AM on March 12, 2008


    if she entered a thread prescribing or proscribing behavior based on a personal preference for lesbian sado-masochistic scatology

    I wouldn't be offended by two konolias, one cup.
    posted by PeterMcDermott at 11:23 AM on March 12, 2008


    precisely my point.
    posted by quonsar at 11:59 AM on March 12, 2008


    Not dismissive, just descriptive. You clearly do enjoy being a grump, otherwise you wouldn't do it so constantly.

    So, site your sources, mister. Look at my posting history. Demonstrate "constantly."
    posted by Dave Faris at 12:05 PM on March 12, 2008


    So, site your sources, mister. Look at my posting history.

    Exactly so. Your posting history is the site of his sources.

    And yeah, you do the drive by grump thing a lot.
    posted by tkolar at 12:06 PM on March 12, 2008


    Hey Dave! Thanks for the great guano 411. Also thanks to the rest of ye. It's too bad that this thread will never reach the arbitrary milestone of 600 comments, though.
    posted by Mister_A at 12:35 PM on March 12, 2008


    Is that because you're a quitter, Mister_A?
    posted by pineapple at 12:41 PM on March 12, 2008


    (Can't believe that worked. I never get the milestone-comment-number.)
    posted by pineapple at 12:41 PM on March 12, 2008


    Woot woot woot! 600 comments!! Pineapple, you've won an array of harp seal, vampire bat, seagull, and booby guano!
    posted by Mister_A at 12:47 PM on March 12, 2008


    Thank y'all, thank you so much! I personally believe, that U.S. Americans, are unable to do so, because uh, some, people out there, in our nation don’t have maps... and uh… I believe that our education, like such as in South Africa, and the Iraq, everywhere like such as… and, I believe they should uh, our education over here, in the U.S. should help the U.S. or should help South Africa, and should help the Iraq and Asian countries so we will be able to build up our future. For us.
    posted by pineapple at 1:05 PM on March 12, 2008 [2 favorites]


    Some of my perceived finger-wagging tone probably comes from the fact I raised three children to adulthood and am a grandma to boot. So, the finger, sometimes it wags automatically. It's a mom thing, people.


    Carry on.
    posted by konolia at 1:16 PM on March 12, 2008


    Oh, and pineapple?

    I HATE beets.
    posted by konolia at 1:17 PM on March 12, 2008


    Oh, there you go, making value judgments and oppressing everyone with them. You beetamentalists just want to come in our kitchens and tell us what vegetables we can and can't eat.
    posted by dw at 1:28 PM on March 12, 2008


    And I bet YOU are a cilantro eater! Heathen.
    posted by konolia at 1:32 PM on March 12, 2008


    You people amaze me.

    True, people do strange things. Like complaining about the community and leaving in a huff only to return a week later.
    posted by Dennis Murphy at 1:34 PM on March 12, 2008


    *Looks forlornly at beet and bean terrine with cilantro, weeps.*
    posted by Mister_A at 1:37 PM on March 12, 2008


    This thread will only be complete when someone leaves in a big huff. Who will it be?
    posted by cior at 1:41 PM on March 12, 2008


    I hate people who diss cilantro. I don't know why everyone hates it. All you people who think it tastes like soap are genetically defect. Cilantroooooooooooo!

    (was that huffy enough? I can pretend to leave.)
    posted by Phire at 1:43 PM on March 12, 2008


    Screw you guys, I'm outta here!
    posted by grouse at 1:44 PM on March 12, 2008


    OK, I'm back.
    posted by grouse at 1:44 PM on March 12, 2008


    The gas mileage on the huff was terrible. These days I leave in a Snit.
    posted by Miko at 1:46 PM on March 12, 2008 [16 favorites]


    *Looks forlornly at beet and bean terrine with cilantro, weeps.*

    Um, you gonna eat that? I'll swap you this plate of beans.
    posted by rtha at 1:46 PM on March 12, 2008


    The highlight of this thread for me? Learning of Klangklangston's Stabbing Westward fandom.*

    *I'll cop to liking their "hits."
    posted by drezdn at 1:46 PM on March 12, 2008


    I could give a fig about cilantro preferences, but I'm pretty fucking tired of all this anti-soap rhetoric. If you don't like it, don't eat it, but some of us like a little hygeine with our food. Meddling jerk-ass [SOAPIST]s.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 1:54 PM on March 12, 2008


    Some of my perceived finger-wagging tone probably comes from the fact I raised three children to adulthood and am a grandma to boot. So, the finger, sometimes it wags automatically. It's a mom thing, people.

    It's funny. My mom doesn't go on the internet and constantly tell people how outraged she is and how ashamed of themselves they should be. Are you sure it's not a you thing? Because I'm pretty sure it's a you thing. Have you given any serious thought to NOT doing it? Because it really doesn't seem like it.

    Carry on.

    The entire time I was reading your comment I kept thinking "oh! konolia's going to apologize for her judgemental tone! what a relief! and then you didn't, which is also relieving in its own way since I don't like surprises.
    posted by shmegegge at 1:54 PM on March 12, 2008 [5 favorites]


    I thought people were being a bit too rough and mean in regarts to UN Owen. Why should I apologize for that opinion? It might be a wrong opinion, but it's mine, and I'm rather fond of it.
    posted by konolia at 2:14 PM on March 12, 2008


    You know, I really have to agree with the point that, while konolia's phrasing was a bit "I have all the answers, kids", it surely got made into a much bigger thing than it would have been had it been posted by someone else.
    posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 2:16 PM on March 12, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Hitler's moustache! This has been an action-packed couple of episodes for Metatalk. What starts out as a creepy voyage into the world of pro-ana ends up unmasking the secret identity of a longtime Metafilter contributor! She would have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for those meddling kids. And not only that, but in another recent episode, we discover that airntz has been making the calls from inside the house in the form of princeofpersiatz! (Seriously, I had just done a google search for airntz the other day to find out if any closure had ever happened there.)

    I picked the right day to start sniffing glue, that's for sure.
    posted by UKnowForKids at 2:19 PM on March 12, 2008


    I thought people were being a bit too rough and mean in regarts to UN Owen. Why should I apologize for that opinion?

    Honestly, the opinion isn't really the problem, though I understand that you need to keep framing the issue that way in order to allow you to sidestep any meaningful self-reflection in the matter. It's more the incessant self-righteousness that evidently knows no bounds, coupled with the smug holier-than-thou tone that I suspect folks take exception to, especially given that your posting history illustrates that your "do unto others" credo has its certain glaring limits.

    But do carry on pretending that you're being victimized for your beliefs.
    posted by scody at 2:25 PM on March 12, 2008 [3 favorites]


    it surely got made into a much bigger thing than it would have been had it been posted by someone else.

    That's true, but it's, er, a cross she has to bear. If you're going to spend a significant amount of time pissing people off with ex cathedra judgments, you have to take the consequences.
    posted by languagehat at 2:27 PM on March 12, 2008


    Why should I apologize for that opinion? It might be a wrong opinion, but it's mine, and I'm rather fond of it.
    posted by konolia 10 minutes ago


    I never said you should apologize for your opinion. But, in truth, you're not going to apologize for anything regardless of how much I explain myself, so it's a moot point. good luck with the finger wagging. be sure to let us know if any of us are your children or grandkids so we can start paying attention to what you think about things.
    posted by shmegegge at 2:33 PM on March 12, 2008 [2 favorites]


    especially given that your posting history illustrates that your "do unto others" credo has its certain glaring limits.

    Well, U.N. Owen is probably straight, so there's a clear difference there.
    posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 2:39 PM on March 12, 2008


    That's true, but it's, er, a cross she has to bear. If you're going to spend a significant amount of time pissing people off with ex cathedra judgments, you have to take the consequences.

    A fair point. Speaking for no one but myself, I guess I just don't see this particular comment as egregious as some others apparently do. Maybe I'm just missing something, but take that as you will. Likewise with Jessamyn's reaction to what, to me, was obviously a light and silly "how do I know any of you are real?"
    posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 2:40 PM on March 12, 2008


    So, the finger, sometimes it wags automatically. It's a mom thing, people.

    shmegegge has already run with this quote elegantly - but is it possible, konolia, that you're just missing the message?

    Some of us indulge the "mom thing" when it's our moms doing the "mom thing".

    Otherwise we generally prefer to at least aim for a more grown up relationship thing.
    posted by Jody Tresidder at 2:45 PM on March 12, 2008 [1 favorite]


    "The highlight of this thread for me? Learning of Klangklangston's Stabbing Westward fandom.*

    *I'll cop to liking their "hits." "

    The drum sound on the first album (Ungod) is really nice, and when I was in high school, I didn't realize how inane the lyrics were. I mean, "I think I woke up screaming/ I had a dream that I still loved you"? And then as time went on, I got to go through the phases where they got popular and I was annoyed at all the new folks who were only into them because they thought that the members were hot, or whatever, and then their follow-up (Darkest Days), which had a couple good songs and a lot of sub-NIN mopery, and then reading up on the backstory and being like, man, this whole album's about the breakup of one relationship? I can totally understand why she dumped his whiny ass. (Technically, that's an observation that a friend of mine made, but I've appropriated it because as soon as he said it, it was clear that it was a platonic truth he had grasped).

    And then slowly realizing that not only had that album been kinda crappy on the whole, but that all of their prior albums were kinda shallow and crappy, and that most industrial music was kinda shallow and crappy. Then Stabbing Westward put out one more album, which my brother bought me for Christmas and it was so amazingly terrible that hearing it only heightened my guilt over giving it a luke-warm reception when I unwrapped it in front of him.

    But yeah, from about 14-years-old to about 19-years-old, I loved that band and met all sorts of people from all over the country through their mailing lists and message boards. Thank God that the other band that I had a similar message-board-and-mailing-list fanaticism about was Nirvana, who, while not what I'd listen to all the time, at least aren't as totally embarrassing. The only thing that SW has going for them on that front is that they're not well-remembered and that I can still look down on people who were fans of Sister Machine Gun.

    Christ, I remember deriding Gravity Kills as a Stabbing Westward rip-off band.
    posted by klangklangston at 3:07 PM on March 12, 2008




    Despair is right. I just threw up in your mouth, a little.
    posted by pineapple at 3:15 PM on March 12, 2008


    i am so going to eat a tasty hamburger today, with beets on it, naturally.
    posted by UbuRoivas at 3:16 PM on March 12, 2008


    What I have learned today:

    1. That sometimes, people do NOT pick up on things said with a sense of humor.
    2. That if someone somewhere has an opinion different from one, then, by jingo, SOMEONE must be judgmental!
    3. That if I respond conversationally to a comment, oh, my goodness, I must have felt attacked!!!!!!! Or victimized!!!!! Oh NOES!

    And somewhere, in the vast hollows and caverns of the Internets, a plate of beans is being overthought.

    Too bad images have been disabled, this would be a perfect time for some cat macros. Anybody want a cheeseburger? Or a bukkit?
    posted by konolia at 3:34 PM on March 12, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Look upon my recipe, and despair.
    posted by CKmtl at 6:10 PM on March 12 [1 favorite +] [!]


    Now THAT?

    Is EVIL.
    posted by konolia at 3:35 PM on March 12, 2008


    What I have learned today:









    posted by konolia at 6:34 PM on March 12

    posted by shmegegge at 3:41 PM on March 12, 2008 [4 favorites]


    Look upon my recipe, and despair.

    Oh my god, that sounds fantastic.

    After I graduated from college, I moved to Northampton MA, and couldn't get a job. Ended up working in dining services at Smith College, where every house (aka dorm) has its own kitchen and dining room. The cook for the house I worked in made the most delicious pickled beets I have ever had. I hadn't been a fan of sweet pickled anything until that point, but the first time she broke out a jar of her homemade pickled beets, I was an instant convert.

    If there is a god, I would like to thank hir for beets. (Other stuff, too, but that'd be a really long list, and I'd leave something off, and you guys would yell at me, and then I might get in my Snit and drive away.)
    posted by rtha at 3:58 PM on March 12, 2008


    In his house at R'lyeh beety Cthulhu waits dreaming.

    I don't mind beets, but those are abominations.
    posted by CKmtl at 4:00 PM on March 12, 2008


    roast beets + tangerine + onions + arugula + balsamic viniagrette = yum
    posted by small_ruminant at 4:10 PM on March 12, 2008


    konolia said: "What I have learned today:

    1. That sometimes, people do NOT pick up on things said with a sense of humor.
    2. That if someone somewhere has an opinion different from one, then, by jingo, SOMEONE must be judgmental!
    3. That if I respond conversationally to a comment, oh, my goodness, I must have felt attacked!!!!!!! Or victimized!!!!! Oh NOES!
    "

    But this one, I totally did pick up on the humor. This was hilarious! Comedy Gold!
    posted by pineapple at 4:13 PM on March 12, 2008


    Has the thread been rickrolled yet?

    Seriously, when is this going to end? What is the purpose? What are we all here waiting for?
    posted by cior at 5:14 PM on March 12, 2008


    Seriously, when is this going to end? What is the purpose? What are we all here waiting for?

    Dude, remember that thread where we thought sansgras might be some kind of kaycee nicole - like fiction? That was awesome. Whatever happened with that thread?
    posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 5:17 PM on March 12, 2008


    Ended up working in dining services at Smith College

    Five College food service workers REPRESENT. [I worked at Hampshire's]

    Likewise with Jessamyn's reaction to what, to me, was obviously a light and silly "how do I know any of you are real?"

    Remember please, I am the humorless mod.
    posted by jessamyn (staff) at 5:32 PM on March 12, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Five College food service workers REPRESENT. [I worked at Hampshire's]

    Me too! SAGA.
    posted by OmieWise at 5:34 PM on March 12, 2008


    Hey, I visited Hampshire often for parties and debauchery. And I do have to say, opening the food hall to serve tater tots at 3am during the Halloween party, while it must suck for the people working there, was much appreciated by me and my friends visiting from our lame college in PA.
    posted by mrzarquon at 5:47 PM on March 12, 2008


    Remember please, I am the humorless mod.

    I once saw Jessamyn straight-face Buster Keaton through a plateglass window.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 6:05 PM on March 12, 2008 [6 favorites]


    I washed dishes at UMass Amherst!
    posted by Evangeline at 6:28 PM on March 12, 2008


    *High-fives jessamyn and OmieWise*

    I actually really liked working at Smith. I liked my co-workers a lot, the students were a huge source of entertainment and enjoyment, and I got two excellent meals a day. And I loved living in Northampton.
    posted by rtha at 6:29 PM on March 12, 2008


    Oh, hey!

    *High-fives Evangeline*
    posted by rtha at 6:38 PM on March 12, 2008


    Hey, rtha, what house?
    posted by LobsterMitten at 6:46 PM on March 12, 2008


    I washed dishes at UMass Amherst!

    Uh mah gah, me too!
    posted by tristeza at 7:10 PM on March 12, 2008


    Oh this is weird. I lived in Greenough. I was only there for one semester (quarter?) my junior year. I went there on the National Student Exchange program. You pay in-state tuition at your home school (University of Alabama for me) and spend one semester or one year at an out-of-state college. This must have been 1988.

    There was a conveyor belt, and my job was to separate out the glasses and put them in racks. Sometimes we'd get so overwhelmed we'd just start tossing dishes onto the floor. The water would be up to our ankles by the time the shift was over!
    posted by Evangeline at 7:16 PM on March 12, 2008


    LobsterMitten: Northrop, '89-90ish.
    posted by rtha at 7:22 PM on March 12, 2008


    So what, now this thread is turning into an episode of Lost?

    Oh my god, we're all minor characters from each other's pasts!
    posted by tkolar at 7:49 PM on March 12, 2008


    Come to think of it we've had con games, mistaken identities, Good and Bad people, nicknames, parent issues, redemption, sacrifice, and plenty of secrets to go around.

    This thread *is* an episode of Lost. All we need to do is work some references to the numbers in and we can submit it as a script for next season.
    posted by tkolar at 7:55 PM on March 12, 2008


    A mefi-related small-world story: I've recently gotten to know a local mefite, who: used to work with one of my best friends; went to the same college (a year apart) as my sweetheart; and was once married to someone I knew in high school.
    posted by rtha at 8:09 PM on March 12, 2008


    Whatever happened with that thread?

    The locals say they're all still in there... and sometimes, late at night, you can still hear their voices.

    OOOOOOOOooooooooooooo
    posted by juliplease at 8:35 PM on March 12, 2008


    Thanks for the recipe CKmtl.
    posted by arse_hat at 9:22 PM on March 12, 2008


    Oh my god, we're all minor characters from each other's pasts!

    It's true. The totally awesome Slack-a-gogo was my ex-husband's best man at our wedding.
    posted by scody at 9:26 PM on March 12, 2008


    rtha: mmm, warm fuzzies.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 9:35 PM on March 12, 2008


    Turns out I'm sleeping with the wife of one of the guys who runs this joint.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 9:40 PM on March 12, 2008 [1 favorite]


    cortex, you dog!
    posted by scody at 9:44 PM on March 12, 2008


    Wait, Jessamyn is a man? And s/he has a wife?
    posted by tkolar at 9:45 PM on March 12, 2008


    I washed dishes at Williams, down the road.
    posted by Joseph Gurl at 9:52 PM on March 12, 2008


    Wait, Jessamyn is a man? And s/he has a wife?

    No to both, but I would be willing to entertain offers on the second part there.
    posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:54 PM on March 12, 2008


    As of right now, this thread appears twice in my "recent activity", both right after Joseph Gurl's comment. It will gradually grow to take over the whole mefi experience... it's like the night the stars went out.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 10:00 PM on March 12, 2008


    Ok, it went away.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 10:06 PM on March 12, 2008


    #666! HAIL SATAN!
    posted by nicolas léonard sadi carnot at 11:01 PM on March 12, 2008


    A mefi-related small-world story: I've recently gotten to know a local mefite, who: used to work with one of my best friends; went to the same college (a year apart) as my sweetheart; and was once married to someone I knew in high school.

    I was at a meetup a month or so ago talking to this MeFite over some beer, and it was only after like an hour or two of talking about random crap that we figured out that we went to the same college 10 years apart. And she was responsible for hijinks that were well-established college history by the time I got there.
    posted by jewishbuddha at 11:55 PM on March 12, 2008 [1 favorite]


    I would be willing to entertain offers on the second part there.

    Ok, I just put up a craiglist ad for ya, let us know how it goes.
    posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:27 AM on March 13, 2008


    Jess, if you - in your infinite librarian wisdom - can help me out with this quandry, I will get down on bended knee. <3>

    also, look: ROSES.


    ..................................
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    ......... ) ` - . .~ ' `( .......
    ........ / . . . .`\ . . \ ........
    ........ |. . . . . |. . .| ........
    ......... \ . . . ./ . ./ .........
    ........... `=(\ /.=` .........
    ............. `-;`.-' ............
    ............... `)| ... , ........
    ................ || _.-'| ........
    ............. ,_|| \_,/ ........
    ....... , ..... \|| .' .............
    ....... |\ |\ ,. ||/ .............
    .... ,..\` | /|.,|Y\, ............
    ..... '-...'-._..\||/ .............
    ......... >_.-`Y| ..............
    .............. ,_|| ...............
    ................ \|| ...........
    ................. || ..........
    ................. || ...........
    ................. |/ .........


    posted by numinous at 7:48 AM on March 13, 2008 [1 favorite]


    numinous: no idea. I find citation nitpickery to be the height of prescriptive nonsense. I understand that there are times people have to do it, but it's not something I know anything about and I'd be looking it up when I got to the library (or Google) same as you.
    posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:08 AM on March 13, 2008 [1 favorite]


    shorter numinous: HOPE ME @>--'--.-`---
    posted by cortex (staff) at 8:11 AM on March 13, 2008 [2 favorites]


    Lollerz all round. And numinous, with an unusual or irregular cite, I'd just make sure that it's clear what the source is, is all.
    posted by Mister_A at 8:20 AM on March 13, 2008


    But I require perfectionnnnnnnnnn! Actually, I need this for an immediate citation, but also because my current research (and hopefully my thesis!) is couched in the examination of religious/economic intersection, so this will undoubtedly be coming up again.

    BRB INTELLECTUALLY AMBUSHING CAMPUS EDITORS.

    also: that is some great editing, cortex. can you help me?
    posted by numinous at 8:38 AM on March 13, 2008


    tkolar: "Oh my god, we're all minor characters from each other's pasts!"

    Indeed! The Bellman and I went to the same high school, but not at the same time. He was (and is) good friends with a girl I also was (and am) good friends with. Do you know how hard it was to figure that out? Answer: not very. Anyway, it would be cool if there was a list of everyone's real names somewhere -- for people who use their names in their profiles, that is, nothing privacy-invading. And if you were in a Facebooky, social app-y mood, you could skim through it and see if there was anyone you recognized. And then you'd... um... say "Hi," I guess.
    posted by The corpse in the library at 9:03 AM on March 13, 2008


    Do you know how hard it was to figure that out? Answer: not very.

    Good point. If this was actually an episode of Lost it would have taken three seasons, two pregnancies, and at least one violation of the laws of physics to sort that out.
    posted by tkolar at 9:14 AM on March 13, 2008 [2 favorites]


    Of people that I didn't convince to join the site, one mefi member worked on the same really small student newspaper as me, other than that I haven't run into anyone else I knew in meatbombspace.
    posted by drezdn at 9:15 AM on March 13, 2008


    Come on, people, we're not going to get to 700 this way. Quit slacking and uncover some more malefactors.
    posted by languagehat at 11:32 AM on March 13, 2008


    The phrase "gal at change" is contained within languagehat, which leaves a leftover "u", which sounds like un owen, oh yes it doesssssss.
    posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:25 PM on March 13, 2008


    FACT: "gaul at change" eliminates even the hanging "u" issue.
    FACT: languagehat knows more about the French language than a red-blooded American has any right to.

    You do the math.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 12:33 PM on March 13, 2008


    Well, Sys Req got "Poison Arrow" by ABC stuck in my head.

    You think you're smart… Stupid, stupid
    posted by klangklangston at 12:38 PM on March 13, 2008


    You can get "rex c to" from cortex, so LH has obviously released the hounds now that the secret is out.
    posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:45 PM on March 13, 2008


    Oh my god, we're all minor characters from each other's pasts!

    Well, except me. I'm not cool enough to hang with the kids in Massachusetts.

    So, having never seen Lost, if I have no background connections with any of you, am I part of that Dharma Project thingy, or am I about to get eaten by a polar bear?
    posted by dw at 12:49 PM on March 13, 2008


    Yes.
    posted by drezdn at 12:59 PM on March 13, 2008


    The phrase "gal at change" is contained within languagehat

    I don't c what you're talking about.
    posted by dersins at 12:59 PM on March 13, 2008


    languagefat (lol) = a full gaol agent.

    ...

    NARC!
    posted by CKmtl at 1:01 PM on March 13, 2008


    So, to try to make 700, I'm going to throw out the theory that sansgras is u.n.owen.

    The both have obsessions with weight, sex, and moderating their posts. They both post to metafilter. They both have less than 10 letters in their username, etc. Prove me wrong internet!
    posted by drezdn at 1:02 PM on March 13, 2008


    Hah! Just more evidence of his essential stinking Frenchness: Brandon Blatcher has discovered that languagehat is really languagechat!

    Declaw, I say, De Claw.
    posted by OmieWise at 1:02 PM on March 13, 2008


    am I part of that Dharma Project thingy, or am I about to get eaten by a polar bear?

    Well, just pray you're not Leslie Arzt.

    Kerpow.
    posted by miss lynnster at 1:04 PM on March 13, 2008


    Plus, (unless someone memailed her) what brought her attention to this rambling thread? On top of that sansgras backwards is sargsnas which is nearly Norwegian for "to own" which sort of sounds like owen.
    posted by drezdn at 1:05 PM on March 13, 2008 [1 favorite]


    dude, this is freaking me out!

    Sansgras - without fat
    Un Owen - without Owen. There was a kid with a slight weight problem in my high school! OMFG!
    posted by dirtdirt at 1:20 PM on March 13, 2008


    I am so on the other side of the looking glass right now i forgot to mention that that kid, the slightly husky one, was named OWEN!!!!
    posted by dirtdirt at 1:22 PM on March 13, 2008


    If anybody wants to take up a real owen-related science projects, I'd suggest an orthographic review of the InnocentBystander posting history to see if two distinct modes of writing can be sussed out. Comments explicitly identified as [IB's wife] could be taken as a baseline corpus for her; comments from before her big meltdown could be taken as a baseline for him. Your assignment: ID the poster of all remaining IB comments based on what you can gather from the writing itself.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 1:28 PM on March 13, 2008


    languagehat is really languagechat!

    MROWWR!

    *shits in OmieWise's shoes*
    posted by languagehat at 1:31 PM on March 13, 2008


    (For example, I noticed when doing some research the other day a propensity toward emphasis using CAPITALIZATION, as well as a possible idiosyncratic use of *bounding asterisks for emphasis* that was not necessarily the more [most?] common mefi pattern of Erikative-like *description of action taken* stranded verb-phrase characterizations. I didn't really dig into either of these, nor did I pin them on one or the other of the two folks involved, but there are at least analyzable artifacts like that.

    Though, of course, if they're a close couple and sharing computer time, there's the reasonable chance that some of these tendencies could become assimilated in either direction over time, thus muddying the forensic waters a bit. But still!)
    posted by cortex (staff) at 1:33 PM on March 13, 2008


    (Also, the character string "ill!)" is kind of a crazy mess of verticle lines.)
    posted by cortex (staff) at 1:34 PM on March 13, 2008


    |||!
    posted by klangklangston at 1:44 PM on March 13, 2008


    Cortex, of course, if anyone follows through on your suggestion, it needs to be turned into a greasemonkey script that automatically inserts "[Innocentbystander's Wife]" when owen typing is detected.
    posted by drezdn at 1:47 PM on March 13, 2008


    You know what that is?

    Ill!
    posted by dersins at 1:47 PM on March 13, 2008


    oh btw
    posted by cortex (staff) at 1:53 PM on March 13, 2008


    blatant abuse of mod power

    posted by cortex (staff) at 1:53 PM on March 13, 2008


    My least favorite club!
    posted by dersins at 1:53 PM on March 13, 2008


    So, speaking of LOST, I read on a spoiler site that we'll learn tonight that Ben is Vincent's biological father.

    ZOMG SPOILER ALERT
    posted by UKnowForKids at 1:53 PM on March 13, 2008


    I didn't really dig into either of these, nor did I pin them on one or the other of the two folks involved, but there are at least analyzable artifacts like that.

    Relatedly, cortex, all artefacts are palimpsests with infinite layers. Here, settle down--you comfy?--I have a lot of theories on this, and I want to bounce some of them off of you . . .
    posted by Skot at 2:02 PM on March 13, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Though, of course, if they're a close couple and sharing computer time, there's the reasonable chance that some of these tendencies could become assimilated in either direction over time, thus muddying the forensic waters a bit

    I don't see why- or how. Stynxno and I share computers- I use his, he uses mine, but that doesn't link how we say what we say on the site. I can't imagine two differing styles fusing into one simply because of the "real life" nature of their relationship.
    posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 2:07 PM on March 13, 2008 [1 favorite]


    There he goes, abusing his admin powers again. Rise up, MetaFilter peons! Storm the barricades and reclaim the img tag!
    posted by languagehat at 2:19 PM on March 13, 2008


    I don't see why- or how. Stynxno and I share computers- I use his, he uses mine, but that doesn't link how we say what we say on the site. I can't imagine two differing styles fusing into one simply because of the "real life" nature of their relationship.

    Give it time. You'll soon be finishing each other's posts.
    posted by dw at 2:45 PM on March 13, 2008


    TPS, I disagree. I don't mean to imply that UN and IB would totally converge, stylistically, but some creeping assimilation of this or that bit of typography wouldn't surprise me one bit. My writing style has not been static over the last few years, and what changes I've adopted reflect in part what I've consciously liked or subconsciously imitated in those around me. Why would that not hold just as true, if not more so, for folks not just sharing a website but in a close relationship?

    That's not to say it's a given; maybe you and stynx have adopted none of one another's phrases or style tics since you've been together—neither intentionally nor accidentally, earnestly or ironically, gladly or despairingly. I can't say (at least, not without doing a bunch of research into your respective commenting histories), but I'd be surprised if there weren't some things.

    (The fact that I occasionally unselfconsciously use as an intensifier "hella", a word I more or less loathe and actively rejected for years when e.g. my sister was using it daily, is a case-in-point for the porousness of one's supposed language barriers. But I may be a bit of a sponge, linguistically; I don't know.)

    Now, things like novel typographic tricks I would expect to be even more liable to lead to assimilation of observed behavior. I'd wager that where people feel a strong sense of (and even unspoken obligation to) the idea that their choice of words is part of their stylistic/expressive identity, there's less strong, less explicit a sense of identity in how folks choose to emphasize* their words in type. Or, at least, that a strong, stubborn sense of typographical identity isn't likely to be in place as soon: someone already comfortable and set in their manner of "talking" (out loud or on paper or via keyboard) may be less set in the specific sorts of characters and keystrokes and codes they use to pick out the key bits of what they're saying.

    All speculation, admittedly; I haven't formally studied any of this. But stylistic assimilation is something I very much, however unstudiously, believe is a (perhaps not universal, and/or perhaps largely invisible to those to whom it happens) real and common phenomenon.

    *or emphasize or "emphasize" or emphasize or *emphasize* or emphasize¿
    posted by cortex (staff) at 2:48 PM on March 13, 2008


    Relatedly, cortex, all artefacts are palimpsests with infinite layers.

    I smell a Big Big Question.
    posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:48 PM on March 13, 2008


    TPS, I disagree. I don't mean to imply that UN and IB would totally converge, stylistically, but some creeping assimilation of this or that bit of typography wouldn't surprise me one bit. My writing style has not been static over the last few years, and what changes I've adopted reflect in part what I've consciously liked or subconsciously imitated in those around me

    I know that conversation styles change over time. But just because two people have face time does not necessarily mean their online activity will intertwine. I don't know that Marc (Stynxno) and I cross paths much on Metafilter- he's often mentioning a post to me that I hadn't seen at all, and vice versa. Our interests are different (he's more on the blue, I'm more on the green, we meet on the grey), and I don't follow his activity very closely. Therefore, I don't think that I would consider him an influence moreso than the people whose work I actually read on a regular basis (shoutouts to my pals on the green) simply because we're together in "real" life. I'd be interested to hear how it works for other couples.
    posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 2:58 PM on March 13, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Fair enough. One of the things I'm presupposing is that IB and UN may have spent a fair amount of time computing together in a context where they'd see one another's text; I don't know if I really stated that explicitly above, and I don't know for sure that that's even the case, but that's part of my reasoning here.

    If you and Stynxno don't really read each others words in any more than a normal proportion to the words of any other users or authors online; if you don't spend more effort and more attention to the things written by one another that you do read than you do to things written by other people; if there's no mapping of verbal expressive tics to writing; no extra one-to-one exposure of one's writing to the other (vetting each other's drafts of a letter or a comment or a post, writing a lot of email to one another, etc): then, yeah, it seems like something that wouldn't be likely to apply as a couple-specific phenomenon above the normal baseline assimilation of other people's writing in general.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 3:11 PM on March 13, 2008


    I'd be interested to hear how it works for other couples.

    My wife and I were both on the same forum for a while. One day, I said something in frustration that violated the unwritten double-sekrit TOS and there was a big, long discussion about whether I should be banned or not. I left. My wife followed minutes later, pissed at the pitchforks they would be waving at HER HUSBAND.

    IOW, it was a total disaster.

    So, now, we don't frequent the same groups, save one baseball blog where I am a regular commenter and she's a lurker and sometimes commenter. Entirely by choice. Not sharing the same web space saves us the emotional investment for other problems.
    posted by dw at 3:12 PM on March 13, 2008


    If you and Stynxno don't really read each others words in any more than a normal proportion to the words of any other users or authors online

    We really don't, and it always surprises me when people assume that we do- like when people assume he makes posts related to celebrity gossip because I want him to or I tell him to. Nothing of the sort; I have about as much to do with his posts or comments as I do with the posts or comments of any other Mefite I correspond with regularly (The poster formerly known as Hermitosis would often run stuff by me, but no one holds me accountable for his stuff). And like dw illustrates, it's probably better that way.
    posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 3:19 PM on March 13, 2008 [1 favorite]


    I'd be interested to hear how it works for other couples.

    My wife reads the site at different times than I do, and it's always a source of amusement to me when I'm reading a comment, and I find myself totally agreeing with the commenter on some strange or arcane topic, only to scroll down and see that it was something that she said.

    Apparently the same thing happens sometimes when she reads my stuff.

    We mostly just use the site in a "didja see that one thread about the thing today?"

    I don't think our writing styles are much alike, but I'm not a good judge of that kind of thing. I know that she tends to stay better on topic and make less indirect threats at random figments of the imagination.

    Which is good, I suppose.
    posted by quin at 3:35 PM on March 13, 2008


    Hey! Bring back the .img tag for ALL! Please, of purty please!
    posted by ericb at 3:37 PM on March 13, 2008


    We really don't, and it always surprises me when people assume that we do- like when people assume he makes posts related to celebrity gossip because I want him to or I tell him to.

    Well, I don't really associate the latter with the former; attending to one another's writing is a lot more natural-seeming to me than e.g. compelling one another to post this or that by proxy.

    But, I dunno. It doesn't surprise me that people would assume couples who are both active online and active to some extent in the same places online would be exposed to one anothers writing. (Then again, since I tend to expect that, it's not surprising that I'm not surprised by such an assumption. I eat my own tail, I know.) I reckon that there's two general things that could be said:

    1. Two people who spend time writing/commenting on the same site(s) and who are also in a close personal relationship are on average more likely to attend to one another's writing in detail than two people who write/comment on the same site(s) but have no other relationship.

    2. Coupledom may have polarizing and magnifying effects on the site-sharing (and comments-reading/-responding) pragmas of the two people: they might either be much more attentive to one another's activities on a given site, or they might pointedly be less attentive (or even mutually exclusive) in the sites they spend time on—in either case as a direct result (happenstance or explicitly enforced) of their personal relationship.

    If I'm going to defend my speculation that UN and IB spent time proportionally greater time reading each other's text and were thus exposed to a greater-than-normal chance of stylistic assimilation, I'd have to do it with the above framework in mind, I suppose.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 3:38 PM on March 13, 2008


    "I'd be interested to hear how it works for other couples."

    My, um, verbosity here has, I think, quieted my girlfriend somewhat. I tend to be, um, outspoken, and she tends to be, um, more reserved. Also, she thinks I can be a dick on the internet when, man, I'm just keepin' it rizz-eal.

    Also, man, Kate, what's up with the retarded black girl on ANTM? She ALSO looks like Tootie, but is arguably the dumbest girl EVAR on ANTM.

    And one thing that's been bringing Amy and I no end of mirth is pretending that the theme of this cycle is literacy—every time that scroll comes across with "Tyra Mail," the stilted shout-along makes it too easy to pretend that they're all now just learning to read.
    posted by klangklangston at 4:33 PM on March 13, 2008


    "Dumbest girl EVAR on ANTM"? That's a tight competition, dude.
    posted by pxe2000 at 4:49 PM on March 13, 2008


    I eat my own tail, I know.

    Are you aware that that's against the law in seventeen states and prohibited by most religious traditions? ARE YOU??
    posted by languagehat at 5:00 PM on March 13, 2008


    Like you wouldn't believe! She makes that weird blonde from the last cycle sound like Foucault.

    Oh, and since (I hope) this thread has totally degenerated: Here's an ILX thread that I'd FPP if I were only a little more OK with being BALETED immediately.
    posted by klangklangston at 5:00 PM on March 13, 2008


    Wowie. Wowzers. The prose is something else, too:

    "ALright Nas take off the sweat pants and your question is what person have you fucked in the music business that surprised you the most?"
    Nas took off his sweat pants and was a little embarrassed cause his dick was super hard from Method Man's story.
    "Let me think...truthfully I have to say R. Kelly."


    Best all-rapper embedded-narrative strip-poker-truth-or-dare slashfic erotica EVAR.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 5:07 PM on March 13, 2008 [1 favorite]


    But TPS, you don't share accounts, which probably leads to less interaction. I think it really depends on how much you use the computer to communicate. For example, I rarely talk to my boyfriend online when we're in the same city, but I facebook my roommates all the time. It depends on the relationship.

    Also, can we talk about the ANTM make overs? They were HORRIBLE this year. Oh god. The horse tail? The cheap weaves? They made weird-talking Hawaiian into an albino?
    posted by fermezporte at 5:10 PM on March 13, 2008


    Seriously, that is what Chaucer would be writing if he was alive today and completely, completely fucked up on bad drugs.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 5:10 PM on March 13, 2008 [1 favorite]


    I'm pretty shocked that Lauren is still on the show but her picture this week was pretty good.
    posted by Stynxno at 5:10 PM on March 13, 2008


    I'd be interested to hear how it works for other couples.

    My ex-boyfriend once said that he basically thought that people on MeFi were a bunch of assholes and flipped out that I asked an AskMe question about him and his bad habits. When we split up, he asked me to change his username and I did.

    I'm sorry, what was the question again?
    posted by jessamyn (staff) at 5:12 PM on March 13, 2008


    The question is what person have you fucked in the music business that surprised you the most?

    Truthfully I have to say Jeff Tweedy.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 5:14 PM on March 13, 2008


    "Best all-rapper embedded-narrative strip-poker-truth-or-dare slashfic erotica EVAR."

    I loved the bit about the guy not bein' gay or nothin', but he'd totally fuck Usher.

    "When we split up, he asked me to change his username and I did. "

    So what was Cortex's username before that?
    posted by klangklangston at 5:17 PM on March 13, 2008 [1 favorite]


    "Also, can we talk about the ANTM make overs? They were HORRIBLE this year. Oh god. The horse tail? The cheap weaves? They made weird-talking Hawaiian into an albino?"

    Yeah, they're caught in the last days of '80s nostalgia, though the skinhead is starting to totally try to rock the '90s again. I mean, high-waisted pants? Those look great on my mom.

    The weird-talking Hawaiian is now known as Powder at our house. We're waiting for her magnetic powers.
    posted by klangklangston at 5:20 PM on March 13, 2008


    I would just like to say that I have to get an abstract in by midnight and I am _still_ reading this thread. If I have a total meltdown, do you think we could get to 1000?
    posted by LittleMissCranky at 5:27 PM on March 13, 2008


    Very possibly.
    posted by jerseygirl at 5:33 PM on March 13, 2008


    Also, man, Kate, what's up with the retarded black girl on ANTM? She ALSO looks like Tootie, but is arguably the dumbest girl EVAR on ANTM.

    You mean Staaaaaceeeeey Annnnnnn? I actually don't hate her so much, probably because I feel so sorry for her with that mop haircut they gave her. Awful. I would give the dumbest girl ever award to the "Hawaiian"- I put that in quotes because I don't want to blame Hawaii for the way she talks- who the hell taught her how to talk like that? I didn't know it was possible for someone born in America to end up sending Eastern European. I really really REALLY hate "punk rock" Lauren. Haaate. HAAAATE.

    I agree that most of the makeovers this year were just horrendous. I thought the now-departed UES Bitch Allison looked much better as a brunette than as a redhead, I think Claire looks better but still awful with her Sinead O' Connor do, I think white girls look ridiculous with weaves, because they never blend in with their natural hair properly and none of them seem to understand how to care for them. I actually kind of like Marvita's Horse Tail look, though, and hope that she's final two with Fatima (who better catch up her posing with her gorgeous face or I'll be ticked).
    posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 5:39 PM on March 13, 2008 [1 favorite]


    I would just like to say that I have to get an abstract in by midnight and I am _still_ reading this thread. If I have a total meltdown, do you think we could get to 1000?

    It would help if you confessed to being Kaycee and/or dhoyt.
    posted by languagehat at 5:41 PM on March 13, 2008


    The question is what person have you fucked in the music business that surprised you the most?

    Oh simple, Kim Thayil.
    posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:34 PM on March 13, 2008 [1 favorite]


    You were all, like, "But Kim's a girl's name and you've got long hair!"

    I really really REALLY hate "punk rock" Lauren. Haaate. HAAAATE.

    Really? I find her journey from observing the horrible shit women are expected to do for fashion, through letting them do it to her, and finally to her doing it to herself, incredibly captivating. Plus, she's inept, and that's punk rock.
    posted by klangklangston at 7:09 PM on March 13, 2008


    jessamyn: "Remember please, I am the humorless mod."

    Sting was very convincing as you, I thought, mathowie played by Phil Daniels was a treat, and Leslie Ash in the role of cortex... wow. The recumbent Vespas were so cool, but did mathowie really have to ride off this thread at the end? If only his mum hadn't found the stash of blue n owens...
    posted by jack_mo at 7:10 PM on March 13, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Things I learned today:

    1. James Brown likes the hotpants.
    2. This little guy can jump and jump.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 7:24 PM on March 13, 2008 [1 favorite]

    The question is what person have you fucked in the music business that surprised you the most?
    Conor Oberst.

    This explains a lot, doesn't it?
    posted by pxe2000 at 7:56 PM on March 13, 2008


    The question is what person have you fucked in the music business that surprised you the most?

    Jimmy Page. He was so gentle. There I was, expecting the whips and chains and maybe the odd red snapper, and instead there were rose petals. Very strange.

    But seriously, I've been reading this thread from the beginning, taking a special interest because when sansgras's last question was posted, I turned to my boyfriend and said, "This girl cannot possibly be real."

    But I did some sansgras-related research after that and found this: Her writing style is very different from that of the infamous sansgras. (References: LiveJournal and Xanga; not sure if the two blogs are by the same person. One ends in 2004 and the other begins in 2005, but the details of the two do not match up at all.)

    Back to my original point, based mostly on LiveJournal versus AskMe: Our sansgras doesn't spell things the Canadian way; the original one did. Ours writes longer sentences, frequently run-ons. The original sansgras used more line breaks. She tended to write in all lower-case letters. As noted earlier in the thread, people do change their writing styles with time, but the two do not seem remotely similar.

    The whole issue seems to have died somewhere upthread, but I'm finally going to jump in and say that I'm fairly sure we have our very own sansgras. I'll also say I'm confused by some apparent contradictions in her questions and comments, but I don't necessarily believe she was lying about herself.

    The UN Owen thing would take a lot more research, I think, especially as her old comments have been deleted.
    posted by brina at 9:39 PM on March 13, 2008 [2 favorites]


    My ex-boyfriend once said that he basically thought that people on MeFi were a bunch of assholes and flipped out that I asked an AskMe question about him and his bad habits. When we split up, he asked me to change his username and I did.

    posted by jessamyn at 1:12 AM on March 14 [+] [!]




    you and crunchland were an item ?
    posted by sgt.serenity at 1:23 AM on March 14, 2008 [1 favorite]


    It would help if you confessed to being Kaycee and/or dhoyt.

    Oh, I am...and also ParisParamus. So now do I threaten to cut something off? I'm kind of new at this meltdown thing.
    posted by LittleMissCranky at 6:23 AM on March 14, 2008


    Should I "confess" to being orange clock, or does anyone even remember him and my huffiness becuase he trespassed on the orange turf?
    posted by orange swan at 6:30 AM on March 14, 2008


    Hee, the orange turf? are you serious? that's adorable.
    posted by Phire at 7:51 AM on March 14, 2008


    I don't know if you want to claim orange clock. If it helps, you're the only orange noun to me.
    posted by LittleMissCranky at 7:57 AM on March 14, 2008


    I just want to take this chance to mention that I'm not the guy that wanted to change his name to Dresden. That's just crazy.
    posted by drezdn at 8:14 AM on March 14, 2008


    When I woke up this morning I seriously, truly had a moment of unreality. I actually had to remind myself that I am who I am. Should I be banned from life?
    posted by loiseau at 8:29 AM on March 14, 2008


    My ex-boyfriend once said that he basically thought that people on MeFi were a bunch of assholes and flipped out that I asked an AskMe question about him and his bad habits.

    Oh. My. God.

    Jessamyn *is* fr0zen! How could we have missed it?
    posted by tkolar at 8:48 AM on March 14, 2008


    *Thread Closed to new comments*
    posted by drezdn at 10:24 AM on March 14, 2008


    FAIL.
    posted by Phire at 10:55 AM on March 14, 2008


    . . . our greatest defining tool. Yet, the metaphors we evolve to expand the potential of language can themselves only be made to refer back to the language which created them. An infinite loop emerges in most definition.

    Cortex? Hey, buddy, stay with me! You looked like you were nodding off for a second.

    Anyway, as new technology emerges we use it to 'add' meaning to artifacts which are already partly defined. By looking at the world with ever more refined microscopes we bring reality into greater clarity. This metaphor can be expanded to refer to texts, art, archaeology, culture . . .
    posted by Skot at 10:56 AM on March 14, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Hee, the orange turf? are you serious? that's adorable.

    I know it sounds petty, but I was relieved when orange clock got banned. He was a dick, and because our names looked so similar, people were confusing us. As a matter of fact several people did comment in his banning thread that they were glad that they'd stop thinking orange swan had lost her mind when scrolling through threads too fast. I worried that people who don't "know" me well would carry around a vague impression that I was an ass, and public opinion of your character can really affect how you get treated around here.
    posted by orange swan at 11:07 AM on March 14, 2008


    Ah, but what about Orange Goblin? Send out the orange ninjas once more!
    posted by languagehat at 11:18 AM on March 14, 2008


    Orange Goblin was here before me. Punk.
    posted by orange swan at 11:33 AM on March 14, 2008


    Orange Goblin's also named after an insanely awesome stoner rock band.
    posted by klangklangston at 11:36 AM on March 14, 2008


    The Oranges and the Pinks should have a rumble. I'm not going to lie, the Pinks would tear your asses UP.
    posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 12:08 PM on March 14, 2008 [2 favorites]


    Headline: "Orange and Pink clash."
    posted by CKmtl at 12:26 PM on March 14, 2008 [9 favorites]


    My ex-boyfriend once said that he basically thought that people on MeFi were a bunch of assholes - Jessamyn

    DTMFA! I've always wanted to write that!

    Wait. What?
    posted by Mister_A at 12:31 PM on March 14, 2008


    Orange is the new pink overlord.
    posted by orange swan at 6:24 PM on March 14, 2008


    I've been trying to decide for ages whether I should change my name to orangetaz, pinktaz, tazhat, or taz cardoso. I think I've pretty much settled on klangklangtaz though.
    posted by taz at 2:44 AM on March 15, 2008


    thepinkcardoso would be worth considering.
    posted by adamvasco at 8:37 AM on March 15, 2008


    Metafilter: I use his, he uses mine
    posted by mr_crash_davis at 11:54 AM on March 15, 2008


    Does anybody read the posts down here?
    posted by languagehat at 1:27 PM on March 15, 2008


    i do.
    posted by grouse at 1:44 PM on March 15, 2008


    Nope.
    posted by The corpse in the library at 1:52 PM on March 15, 2008


    How could you not?
    posted by mumkin at 2:00 PM on March 15, 2008


    Yes.
    posted by brina at 2:28 PM on March 15, 2008


    Is this another longboat thread?
    posted by Cranberry at 2:41 PM on March 15, 2008


    Row, you bastards!
    posted by Tenuki at 3:02 PM on March 15, 2008


    It's a stealth longboat that'll never make it to 1000.
    posted by drezdn at 3:07 PM on March 15, 2008


    I take that as a personal challenge.
    posted by languagehat at 3:23 PM on March 15, 2008


    Seriously.
    posted by languagehat at 3:23 PM on March 15, 2008


    We're over three-quarters of the way, people—we can do this!
    posted by languagehat at 3:23 PM on March 15, 2008


    This thread has now reached the point where I have to turn off greasemonkey to get it load in less than a light year.

    I believe in us! We can do this!
    posted by rtha at 3:30 PM on March 15, 2008


    Naming your establishment Fubar only invites the wrath of the gods.
    posted by mumkin at 3:31 PM on March 15, 2008


    Of course, a light year measures distance, not time. But we knew that.
    posted by rtha at 3:33 PM on March 15, 2008


    I thought greasemonkey caused web traffic to be routed by way of Alpha Centauri.
    posted by tkolar at 3:42 PM on March 15, 2008


    That explains the slow loading, then. It's always rush hour for the Centaurian's - never seen anything like that gridlock. That Tannhauser Gate junction is just terrible.
    posted by rtha at 4:08 PM on March 15, 2008


    Centaurians, dammit.
    posted by rtha at 4:09 PM on March 15, 2008


    Of course, a light year measures distance, not time. But we knew that.

    Blah blah Kessel run blah blah twelve parsecs.
    posted by dersins at 4:15 PM on March 15, 2008


    I did not say this. I am not here.
    posted by deborah at 4:21 PM on March 15, 2008


    Who was that?
    posted by yhbc at 4:27 PM on March 15, 2008


    Who was what?

    What. Wait?
    posted by rtha at 4:50 PM on March 15, 2008


    I will cut someone's hand off.
    posted by Dr. Curare at 10:38 PM on March 15, 2008


    why am I up at 4 am? Curse you, Mefi.
    posted by Phire at 12:57 AM on March 16, 2008


    I was going to take a little break from the world of MeFi and catch up on my feeds. BikeHacks denied me.
    posted by mumkin at 2:49 AM on March 16, 2008


    There might be something duller than waiting for nail polish to dry, but I'm not sure what it is. You'd be surprised how many activities become ill-advised when one's nails are wet.
    posted by emmastory at 6:52 AM on March 16, 2008


    COME ON there has to be other drama we could stir up in this thread.
    posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 10:16 AM on March 16, 2008 [1 favorite]


    There's a bird caught in my stove-hood vent. It's been frantically scrabbling all morning. It has drama: doesn't know whether it should stay or go; feels like it's been lying all along; only now realizes that it's trapped - TRAPPED - in a loveless vent; thinks all of this may have to do with how its parents sat on it when it was just an egg; thinks someone may be stalking it outside the ductwork; doesn't know how to gauge whether other birds are interested in it; etc.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 10:48 AM on March 16, 2008


    Is the bird overweight?
    posted by languagehat at 11:08 AM on March 16, 2008


    Is the bird circumcised? Would you like to know how to circumcise it?
    posted by drezdn at 11:15 AM on March 16, 2008


    I'm thinking I might like to declaw it before trying to get it out.
    Running the fan doesn't intimidate it, and basically all I can see are its talons and beak, so it seems pretty menacing. I suspect it's also gay and Christian. Not sure what it think about ANTM.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 11:24 AM on March 16, 2008


    If it's a starling, it's nothing but an illegal alien here to steal the habitats and food sources of hardworking native birds. Call ICE and Homeland Security and have it and its whole family (all 100 million of them) shipped to Gitmo.
    posted by rtha at 12:08 PM on March 16, 2008


    Would you like a recipe for it?
    posted by The corpse in the library at 12:57 PM on March 16, 2008


    Stove hood vent bird is watching you masturbate.
    posted by UbuRoivas at 1:37 PM on March 16, 2008


    Heath Ledger was actually renting his apartment from me.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 2:38 PM on March 16, 2008


    If it's a starling, it's nothing but an illegal alien

    Yeah, I'm none too positively disposed toward it anyway - even if it were an honest all-Amurrican bird and not a starlingish bastid I don't want it in my ductwork. Learn to speak English and stop taking our jobs, bird.


    and, cortex is a skinny raccoon-eyed media-empress?
    posted by LobsterMitten at 2:56 PM on March 16, 2008 [1 favorite]


    ThePinkSuperhero said: "COME ON there has to be other drama we could stir up in this thread."

    Seriously, y'all. This is weak.
    posted by pineapple at 3:28 PM on March 16, 2008


    Update for rtha: yup, starling. As it turns out, it was at least two adults. I don't know if they've got a nest higher up in there, heaven forbid. They are mean-looking, fat and oily and clawed, and if you try to catch them they fly around and poop on things. We've expelled one of them, and the other's hiding for now.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 5:01 PM on March 16, 2008


    Next time, if you're able to get up on the roof and open the vent cap, and if the pipe is pretty straight, you could try feeding a rope all the way down. Jig it up and down a bit, and the bird might latch on and hopefully hang on long enough to be pulled to freedom - relatively easily and without shitting all over the house.

    I've seen it work roughly 2 out of 3 times when some daft bird got into out chimney.
    posted by CKmtl at 5:15 PM on March 16, 2008


    Woo! Birdfishing!
    Ours seems to vent to the front wall of the house, though, so I think it has corners. Not sure if the birdfish will hang on around corners...
    posted by LobsterMitten at 5:50 PM on March 16, 2008


    Hmm, probably not.

    But! it might hang on long enough to get to the corner, and then fly/scramble out on its own when it sees daylight or a flashlight.

    Just don't stand there peering into the hole, unless you want a birdfish in your face.
    posted by CKmtl at 5:57 PM on March 16, 2008


    We're still working on the last starling. My able assistant has named it Clarice. hurr hurr...
    posted by LobsterMitten at 10:22 PM on March 16, 2008


    Got her! In your face, Clarice!
    posted by LobsterMitten at 12:01 AM on March 17, 2008


    198 comments to go people, c'mon.
    posted by Phire at 12:21 AM on March 17, 2008


    Take one down, pass it around, 197 comments to go.
    posted by dersins at 12:33 AM on March 17, 2008


    This is the callout that doesn't end,
    It just goes on and on my friend
    Some people started snarking, not knowing what it was,
    And they'll continue snarking forever just because
    posted by Tenuki at 1:53 AM on March 17, 2008 [3 favorites]


    Oh boy! Sleep! That's where I'm a viking!
    posted by pxe2000 at 5:00 AM on March 17, 2008


    I don't think so - I was just there, and I saw no vikings.

    Last night for dinner, we made this delicious curried butternut squash stew. The secret is to saute everything in peanut oil - it tastes good and it makes the whole house smell amazing.

    Also, the peregrines nesting on San Jose's (CA) city hall are back for another season. Nest cam here. They've laid two eggs so far - there will probably be more. It's kind of boring to watch right now, but once the adults start incubating seriously there will be food exchanges, and of course once the young hatch - well, hilarity will ensue. Ensue, I tell you!
    posted by rtha at 6:00 AM on March 17, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Literal Viking.
    posted by languagehat at 6:24 AM on March 17, 2008


    You've lost your viking mind, rtha.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 6:49 AM on March 17, 2008


    the peregrines nesting on San Jose's (CA) city hall are back for another season

    Yestderday we were out looking at houses and, as we left one particularly poorly renovated attempt at a realtor-owned flip, we nticed there was a bird in the birdbath in front of the house across the street. From where we stood, the scale was all wrong, though-- the birdbath looked much smaller than standard.

    We crossed the street to examine more closely, and realized the bird was a peregrine (we think) falcon, just splashing around and having a grand old time.

    It was pretty cool, and definitely the only time I've ever seen a raptor playing in a birdbath in an urban area.
    posted by dersins at 8:14 AM on March 17, 2008 [1 favorite]


    My viking mind is not lost; it is currently out for cleaning. It accumulates a horrifying amount of cat fur around here.

    Peregrine in a bird bath! Awesome! I bet the robins were pissed, though. If it was a grey or grey/brown bird with a black "helmet" (like this), then yes, peregrine!

    Those reddish things you can see in the nest cam are eggs. At the moment there are two; Clara (the female) will probably lay another two or three in the coming days, and then start to seriously incubate them so they'll all hatch at roughly the same time.
    posted by rtha at 8:28 AM on March 17, 2008


    There are Vikings on Mars.
    posted by cog_nate at 8:40 AM on March 17, 2008


    There's a peregrine on the nest right now. Might be laying another egg. Go peregrines!

    (did you know that in the early 1970s, there were only 2 known breeding pairs of PEFAs in all of California? There are now at least 200 pairs!)
    posted by rtha at 8:47 AM on March 17, 2008


    HÅNK: "Now what's all the ruckus about, here?"

    SVENHAUER: "You know that big ol' dang ol' sumbitchin' floater what we came in on ut's parked over yonder in the bay well dangit i seen some red-skinned fellers just crawlin' all over it and i think they's try'na set the ol' thang on fire is what, an—"

    BILLWULF: "He's talkin' bout the boat, Hånk. Some injuns are burning it down an' good."

    HÅNK: "Well, I tell you what, that ain't neighborly. Peggy, where'd I leave my greatsword?"


    -- Mike Judge, "Viking of the Hill"
    posted by cortex (staff) at 8:56 AM on March 17, 2008 [4 favorites]


    There are Islamofascist Vikings on Mars.

    Fixed that for you. Now can we get a fucking flamewar going? Peregrines are cute and all, but they're not going to get us very far.
    posted by languagehat at 9:00 AM on March 17, 2008


    Also, there's nothing wrong with the way Bush pronounces "nuclear."
    posted by languagehat at 9:00 AM on March 17, 2008


    Obama: articulate threat, or clean menace?
    posted by cortex (staff) at 9:14 AM on March 17, 2008 [2 favorites]


    This thread is like Atlas Shrugged. Many claim to have read the whole thing, but nobody actually has.
    posted by dirtdirt at 9:29 AM on March 17, 2008


    This thread is like Atlas Shrugged Finnegan's Wake. Many claim to have read the whole thing, but nobody actually has.

    Fixed &c.
    posted by dersins at 9:43 AM on March 17, 2008


    "This thread is like Atlas Shrugged. Many claim to have read the whole thing, but nobody actually has."

    When I was in high school, I was taking these improv classes, and one of the other students was this alternative chick that I had a massive crush on. So when she was all into Rand, I pretended that I'd read it too, and was just vague on the details ("Oh, yeah, well, I, like, read it a while ago, you know?" says the 15-year-old).

    When I finally did try to read it, it was so stupid that I couldn't even fake my way through, and I didn't want to date her anymore.
    posted by klangklangston at 9:46 AM on March 17, 2008 [1 favorite]


    languagehat wouldn't know the correct pronunciation of nuclear if there was a mushroom cloud in his driveway.

    Obama is clearly (and cleanly) the shadow candidate for the islamofascist peregrine movement. I mean, duh - don't you people know how to read the messages encoded in bird droppings? Falconry is an ancient, beloved sport in much of the Middle East, and they've concentrated for decades now on training various kinds of falcons in espionage and election-stealing.

    Watch the skies!
    posted by rtha at 9:47 AM on March 17, 2008


    Oh, and one of the times that my girlfriend's old roommate (the one with ass surgery) had his friends over, they all sat around and gushed about Joyce, and it was clear that none of them had actually read Ulysses or Finnegan's Wake. ("It's like, just so funny if you actually get it, but most people don't." "Really? What's so funny about it?" "Well, like, there are just these funny parts where he starts writing and then it looks like one thing, but once you get it, you realize that it's hysterical." "Oh, yeah, I like that part too." Yeah, you should read it. It's funny." "Yeah, I'll get around to it so I can keep up with you guys.")
    posted by klangklangston at 9:50 AM on March 17, 2008


    This thread is like Atlas Shrugged. Many claim to have read the whole thing, but nobody actually has.

    I've read all of both. One of them was worth it. The other was Atlas Shrugged.
    posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 9:59 AM on March 17, 2008 [2 favorites]


    Falconry is an ancient, beloved erotic sport
    posted by cortex (staff) at 10:04 AM on March 17, 2008


    *testing theory that all I have to do is show up*
    posted by konolia at 10:09 AM on March 17, 2008


    That's Woody Allen, konolia - 95% of anything is showing up.

    My Woody - the Woody I know and love - is a noted theorist.
    posted by ikkyu2 at 10:23 AM on March 17, 2008


    Right, right. it's ALL about you. Typical christian "I have all the answers. Everyone else is misguided" nonsense.

    News flash! You're not that special! No one cares if you show up!
    posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 10:24 AM on March 17, 2008


    well, konono no.15959, your presence isn't going to set me off.
    you're no Vincent Connare [nsfw, language/webcomic].
    posted by heeeraldo at 10:38 AM on March 17, 2008


    Can someone please explicate on the subject of pervasive cups-related animus?
    posted by cortex (staff) at 10:43 AM on March 17, 2008


    *WAAAAAAAAAH*
    posted by konolia at 10:46 AM on March 17, 2008


    This thread is like Atlas Shrugged. Many claim to have read the whole thing, but nobody actually has.

    Sadly, I have read this whole thread.
    posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 10:47 AM on March 17, 2008 [2 favorites]


    I listened to the audio tape.
    posted by drezdn at 10:50 AM on March 17, 2008


    Only because we haven't had our Galt speech yet.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 10:50 AM on March 17, 2008


    Sadly, I have read this whole thread.

    So, TPS, you like big threads and you cannot lie?
    posted by heeeraldo at 10:51 AM on March 17, 2008 [1 favorite]


    *hands konolia a kleenex*
    posted by rtha at 10:56 AM on March 17, 2008


    My Woody - the Woody I know and love - is a noted theorist.

    My Woody prefers practice to theory iykwim (aityd).
    posted by dersins at 11:12 AM on March 17, 2008


    I am so sorry. That wasn't funny. At all. But it had to be said.
    posted by dersins at 11:12 AM on March 17, 2008


    I think what dersins is trying to say is that he likes using his penis for sex. But I want to be clear that I haven't discussed this with dersins and I'm only making an assumption; I could be wrong here, and barring some sort of clarifying followup comment from him we should probably not jump to conclusions.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 11:14 AM on March 17, 2008


    . . . In a sense, I use the word definition as it is used to describe digital photography, i.e. the greater the pixel count the higher the definition. TRUE, PERFECT definition in this sense, can be understood as a digital image with an infinite number of pixels. The only model than can describe the world is the world itself.

    I want to uncover the fractal-like capacity of language, metaphor and definition, most specifically in the archaeological examination of texts, writing, books etc. . . .
    posted by Skot at 11:31 AM on March 17, 2008


    So, TPS, you like big threads and you cannot lie?

    You other members can't deny! When a thread's a mess, you can't help say, YES, this thread may take all day! I'll stay! Don't want to work, no way!
    posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 11:39 AM on March 17, 2008 [5 favorites]


    I think what dersins is trying to say is that he likes using his penis for sex.

    Well, it's certainly preferable to using yours.
    posted by dersins at 11:40 AM on March 17, 2008


    Oh, sure, it's all about your pleasure. Typical.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 11:47 AM on March 17, 2008


    And, man, I tried to watch the movie of Atlas Shrugged or The Fountainhead (I forget which), and it was just this never-ending didactic march of bullshit. Wooden, unironic bullshit.
    posted by klangklangston at 11:50 AM on March 17, 2008


    I guess everyone really does eventually turn into their parents, because you sound JUST like your mom.
    posted by dersins at 11:51 AM on March 17, 2008


    [Mefi admin day-in-the-life insight: dersins is referring to my now-deleted comment that read, in part, "Don't worry, it happens to a lot of guys. There are pills you can take for that, you know. I mean, for the 'stamina' thing. The ones for size don't actually work."]
    posted by cortex (staff) at 11:55 AM on March 17, 2008


    [It's true. For some reason both cortex and his mom are obsessed with my inability to watch more than an episode at a time of any given Real World / Road Rules marathon. I'm not sure why they care that I only have a 27" flatscreen, though.]
    posted by dersins at 12:00 PM on March 17, 2008


    [Well, you know, it's a really really good show. And besides, the first like nine seasons weren't filmed in HD or anything so, like, wevs.]
    posted by cortex (staff) at 12:06 PM on March 17, 2008


    [Also can you believe that Brody is hooking up with Talia behind Griffin's back? I mean, okay, Griff is totally not being attentive to her feelings lately and whatever but he's just distracted because he care so much about winning the Song Challenge next week and I think she should respect that. And Brody doesn't have any excuse anyway; that is just some hardcore backstabbery and I hope he gets some karma back for it.]
    posted by cortex (staff) at 12:09 PM on March 17, 2008


    "Also, there's nothing wrong with the way Bush pronounces 'nuclear.'"

    OH NO YOU DI'NT MISTER LANGUAGE FAT
    posted by mr_crash_davis at 12:10 PM on March 17, 2008


    Okay, you people know way too much about crap television for my comfort.
    posted by tkolar at 12:38 PM on March 17, 2008


    Oh sure, it's all about your comfort tkolar. Well, you know what, you fedora-wearing elitist? Some of us like crap television! Some of us only have access to crap television! Who are you to rain on our crap television parade without offering any sort of solution?

    I hope you are SILENCED ALL YOUR LIFE!

    (hey konolia - are you done with that kleenex yet?)
    posted by rtha at 12:46 PM on March 17, 2008


    When I finally did try to read it, it was so stupid that I couldn't even fake my way through, and I didn't want to date her anymore.

    I had this exact experience with the Book of Mormon.
    posted by languagehat at 1:30 PM on March 17, 2008


    *passes kleenex filled with snot to rtha*

    I tried to burn a book of Mormon once. Darn thing would NOT burn. I'm serious.
    posted by konolia at 1:57 PM on March 17, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Yet most bibles make for pretty decent rolling paper.
    posted by Dr. Curare at 2:26 PM on March 17, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Which betrays the Gideon-hoteliery pro-weed agenda, when you think about it.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 2:29 PM on March 17, 2008


    cf. hands = SO big.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 2:30 PM on March 17, 2008


    I tried to burn a book of Mormon once. Darn thing would NOT burn. I'm serious. -- konolia


    Just in case anyone missed that.
    posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 2:32 PM on March 17, 2008


    "I tried to burn a book of Mormon once. Darn thing would NOT burn. I'm serious."

    That was the angel Moroni saving you from hell.
    posted by klangklangston at 2:35 PM on March 17, 2008


    I always suspected that Dr. Gene Scott was high.
    posted by mumkin at 2:39 PM on March 17, 2008


    *makes voodoo doll out of konolia's snot-filled kleenex*
    *dresses voodoo doll in disco FABulous*
    *as a result, konolia becomes club kid on the circuit*

    MWA-HA-HA-HA-HA!

    (The secret to burning a book of mormon: you gotta separate the pages, roll each around something flammable - weed works well - and then light up. To keep the flame going, toke early and often. This is what a, uh, friend told me. Give it a shot - can't hurt!)
    posted by rtha at 2:41 PM on March 17, 2008


    It'd probably be a shitty coffee filter too.
    posted by CKmtl at 2:55 PM on March 17, 2008


    shitty coffee filter
    posted by Tenuki at 3:06 PM on March 17, 2008


    ShittyCoffeeFilter
    posted by UbuRoivas at 4:10 PM on March 17, 2008


    I just want to point out that the Yankees paid more for Alice Rodriguez than JP Morgan paid for Bear Stearns.

    LOL$ISTS
    posted by shothotbot at 4:13 PM on March 17, 2008


    I got a bag of Tootsie Pops months ago, and now that I've eaten all the red ones, all that's left are orange and chocolate. Sigh.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 4:29 PM on March 17, 2008


    LobsterMitten, you're clearly broken, since chocolate ARE THE BEST FLAVOR OF TOOTSIE POP EVER!
    posted by pineapple at 4:39 PM on March 17, 2008 [2 favorites]


    Welcome back my friends to the callout that never ends
    We're so glad you could attend, come inside, come inside

    There behind a whinge stands a Mefite on the fringe
    Be careful as you cringe, move along, move along

    Come inside, the callout's going to start
    Guaranteed to blow your head apart

    Rest assured you'll get your five bucks' worth
    The greatest show in Heaven, Hell or Earth
    You've got to see the show, it's a dynamo
    You've got to see the show, it's rock and roll, oh

    Right before your eyes see the laughter from mathowie
    And he laughs until he cries, then he yells "owie, wowie"

    Soon the Queen of Green in a haze of intervene
    Will delete your snarky paean, what a scene, what a scene

    Next upon the stand will you please extend a hand
    To the Cortex Ragtime Band, it is grand, if unmanned

    Where's the self-control, we've a sight to kill your soul
    Seven self-links and a troll, the snark is droll, snark is droll

    We would like it to be known that the whining that was shown
    Were exclusively our own, all our own, all our own

    Come and see the show, come and see the show
    Come and see the show
    See the show



    Now you know what the P really stood for in EL&P.
    posted by pineapple at 4:53 PM on March 17, 2008 [3 favorites]


    Emerson, Lake & PINEAPPLE, amirite??????
    posted by pineapple at 4:55 PM on March 17, 2008


    No, chocolate are consolation pops; they'll do in a pinch. But cherry's where it's at.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 5:05 PM on March 17, 2008


    Tho, pineapple Dum-Dums are good.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 5:06 PM on March 17, 2008


    I just want to point out that the Yankees paid more for Alice Rodriguez than JP Morgan paid for Bear Stearns.

    Perhaps, but Bear Stearns won't lay an egg in the playoffs.
    posted by dw at 5:11 PM on March 17, 2008


    No, chocolate are consolation pops; they'll do in a pinch.

    Oh. mygod. Lobstermitten, I've always liked your comments, and recently got to get all nostalgic with you about the Happy Valley.

    But...consolation pops? I may have to reevaluate how I feel about you.
    posted by rtha at 6:07 PM on March 17, 2008


    The Tootsie Pop is all about contrast. Chocolate provides insufficient contrast with the tootsie center.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 6:14 PM on March 17, 2008


    The Tootsie Pop is all about contrast. Chocolate provides insufficient contrast with the tootsie center.

    Oh, please. The contrast in Tootsie Pops has never been about the taste. It's about the *feel* -- the glazed ice crunch of the outer shell vs the slightly-too-stale lump of resin on the inside.

    Taste is purely a secondary consideration. If anything, having a chocolate taste on the outside helps to reinforce the idea that the unknown substance on the inside actually is some form of chocolate itself. Surrounding the inside with any other flavor leads to unwholesome speculation about what it actually is.

    Take your chocolate hating ways and get out...
    posted by tkolar at 6:37 PM on March 17, 2008


    Both contrasts are important: feel (as you quite rightly say), and taste.
    Chocolate itself I have no quarrel with. But chocolate-flavored hard candy is a different proposition.

    Which prompted me to ask myself -- is tootsie supposed to be a form of chocolate? I always took it to be something else, a mystery substance unto itself. Looking at the ingredients online I guess it is cocoa flavored. Strange.

    Also, check out the hilariously homemade Tootsie Pops home page. Not under their own name, designed and copywritten by... cousin Joe's kid?
    posted by LobsterMitten at 8:00 PM on March 17, 2008


    Ohfergawdsake is this thread still going? (Not that there's anything wrong with that)...

    Btw, everybody knows that BlowPops are the best (two treats in one! lollipop and bubblegum - instant gratification and long-lasting enjoyment).
    posted by amyms at 8:38 PM on March 17, 2008


    Sometimes I get visions of yo momma.
    posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 8:45 PM on March 17, 2008



    Also, check out the hilariously homemade Tootsie Pops home page.


    That's bizarre. You would think they would have sprung the $15 for a domain name.

    As for the tootise roll -- yes, it is marketed as some type of chocolate. That's as much as I'm willing to commit to.
    posted by tkolar at 8:49 PM on March 17, 2008


    I just wanted to stop by and say good luck, we're all counting on you.
    posted by ooga_booga at 9:47 PM on March 17, 2008


    Darn kids, go to sleep!
    posted by not_on_display at 10:15 PM on March 17, 2008


    You're not the boss of me!

    (Lobstermitten, I've decided to not let this bizarre thing you have against chocolate tootsie pops get in the way of my liking of you. Life's too short.)

    (Although it's apparently long enough for this thread.)
    posted by rtha at 10:33 PM on March 17, 2008


    :) Glad to hear it. Think of it this way - if we ever have to split a bag of Tootsie Pops, harmony will reign.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 11:35 PM on March 17, 2008


    LobsterMitten said: "Tho, pineapple Dum-Dums are good."

    I get told this a lot. Not sure why.

    Also, while the pineapple-flavored Dum-Dum is nice for its sheer novelty, the cream soda Dum-Dum is far superior. As is ?-flavor.

    Facts you didn't know about Dum-Dums until I just took the trouble of going to Wikipedia for you:

    - Pineapple? Actually discontinued in 2001.
    - But re-introduced in 2005, from its previously retired status as one of the Original Flavors, is Coconut-Pineapple.
    - Buttered Popcorn was a flavor from 2001-2002.
    - But here's the best, the story behind ?
    Dum Dums are made in about twelve different flavors; nine or ten of these flavors are classic flavors; two or three are cycled in and out. The "Mystery Flavor," present in every bag of Dum Dums, is a combination of two flavors in the bag. The combined flavors are random. This combination occurs because the production of Dum Dums is continuous--there is no stop between flavors. This practice results in the flavor combination.
    So, "Mystery Flavor" equals "we can't be arsed to stop and clean the equipment before we roll to the next flavor in production."
    posted by pineapple at 1:06 AM on March 18, 2008 [5 favorites]


    That's actually very cool, pineapple. So, at any point in production, the "Mystery Flavor" could be "rootbeer/butterscotch" or "lime/chocolate" or "raspberry/pineapple"... The possiblities are endless!
    posted by amyms at 1:14 AM on March 18, 2008


    And, are the ?-Pops the same combination within any one given production batch of Dum-Dums?

    Or might they be different combos within the same bag?

    My mind, it is blown.
    posted by pineapple at 2:10 AM on March 18, 2008


    if we ever have to split a bag of Tootsie Pops, harmony will reign.

    You know, the shock of your tootsie pop revelation was so great that it made me forget the most important thing about food and preferences: If you don't like something that I like, more for me!

    I might have to go out today and buy some tootsie pops. And dum-dums.
    posted by rtha at 5:52 AM on March 18, 2008


    (Lobstermitten, I've decided to not let this bizarre thing you have against chocolate tootsie pops get in the way of my liking of you. Life's too short.)

    :) Glad to hear it. Think of it this way - if we ever have to split a bag of Tootsie Pops, harmony will reign.


    Goddammit, don't you people know how to conduct a proper flame war? Granted, a flame war about Tootsie Pops is a little bizarre, but on the other hand you might have been making internet history. Instead, the whole thing dissolves into hugs and shared snacks.

    I hate you all.
    posted by languagehat at 6:08 AM on March 18, 2008


    more like tootsie pap amirite
    posted by cortex (staff) at 6:12 AM on March 18, 2008


    Recent comments tells me there have been 200 comments since my last one in this thread. I apologize abjectly.
    posted by OmieWise at 6:52 AM on March 18, 2008


    My hovercraft is full of
    Eels! Now we can all get some sleep!
    Thor? I'm tho thore I can hardly pith!
    And now for something completely different..
    For fast pain relief, take Bex!
    I loves to eat my friends and make no bones about it...
    Lola. lo lo lo lo. Lola
    The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog
    Except when it's a DIRTY DOG YEAH DIRTY DOG OH FUCK YEAH
    Really? How extraordinarily quaint.

    I thought you said goat.
    She wore blue velvet.

    Oh matron!
    Disease ridden maggot ridden shame ridden horror ridden life life life life
    Deary me.
    posted by h00py at 7:33 AM on March 18, 2008


    (My impression of what a dysfunctional meetup would be like, in case you were wondering).
    posted by h00py at 7:38 AM on March 18, 2008


    So no one's going to flame out?

    What am I going to do with this shipment of torches?

    Oh well, I guess I'll start cooking up some brats.
    posted by drezdn at 8:01 AM on March 18, 2008


    Yeah, screw Hansel and Gretel!
    posted by tkolar at 8:18 AM on March 18, 2008


    Granted, a flame war about Tootsie Pops is a little bizarre, but on the other hand you might have been making internet history. Instead, the whole thing dissolves into hugs and shared snacks.

    It's the sugar. It makes me feel all fuzzy and benign.

    Anyway, who the fuck died and made you god of flame wars? And you, OmieWise, with your damn midcap that I always forget have I mentioned how much I hate frakking midcaps? - where the fuck have you been? Working? Living a life? Fuck you too! No tootsie pops of any flavor for either of you!

    hey drezdn - I'll trade you some pitchforks for some brats. I got popcorn, too. Anybody got any lawn chairs?
    posted by rtha at 8:22 AM on March 18, 2008


    We're going to drag this thread to 1000 if it kills us, amirite?
    posted by rtha at 8:22 AM on March 18, 2008


    U RITE U RITE
    posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:28 AM on March 18, 2008 [1 favorite]


    with your damn midcap

    Maybe if you weren't so fucking sensitive I wouldn't have to put a midcap in your ass.
    posted by OmieWise at 8:33 AM on March 18, 2008


    Anyway, who the fuck died and made you god of flame wars?

    Now that's more like it.

    *revs chainsaw, advances menacingly*

    Uh, drezdn, any brats left?
    posted by languagehat at 8:43 AM on March 18, 2008


    Oh, and another thing—
    posted by languagehat at 8:44 AM on March 18, 2008


    (ahem)
    posted by languagehat at 8:44 AM on March 18, 2008


    900!
    posted by languagehat at 8:44 AM on March 18, 2008


    Chainsaw! HA!

    *loads grenade launcher*

    Midcap that, you internet wusses!

    901!

    can comebody pass the mustard, please?
    posted by rtha at 9:05 AM on March 18, 2008


    I got 901 problems but a round-numbered comment ain't one.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 9:05 AM on March 18, 2008


    Numeracy is also not one of those problems that I have.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 9:06 AM on March 18, 2008


    904! ah! ah! ah!
    posted by shmegegge at 9:17 AM on March 18, 2008


    *passes out cups of gatorade*

    COME ON YOU"RE ALMOST THERE!
    posted by Big_B at 9:20 AM on March 18, 2008


    *throws up on Big_B's shoes*
    *passes out*
    posted by rtha at 9:28 AM on March 18, 2008


    . . . the thing defined changes in its relationship to the world, I do believe that there is a contradiction in what you have said, Cortex. When the relationship something has with the world shifts we are left with at least two levels of definition, the original and the new. The new definition is not removed completely from the old, the new contains the old within it. To truly understand the Morning and the Evening star, in all its glorious philosophical history, we need to . . .
    posted by Skot at 9:35 AM on March 18, 2008


    There's no shame in giving up now. Not every post can reach 1000 comments and so your family won't think any less of you for turning back before the finish line. Aren't your finger tips really sore? Maybe it'll lead to a chronic condition. Maybe you'll be like that guy who died just short of the finish line.

    It's best to give up.

    Here, have a brat.
    posted by drezdn at 9:40 AM on March 18, 2008


    Why do I have mustard in my hair? DAMN YOU METAFILTERIANIANS!
    posted by rtha at 9:46 AM on March 18, 2008


    We will never give up, never never never!
    posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:47 AM on March 18, 2008 [1 favorite]


    drezdn, I have not yet begun to type.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 9:50 AM on March 18, 2008


    Oh - and cortex? My numeracy problems are so terrible this morning (oh, who am I kidding? EVERY morning!) that when we hit 900 comments, I thought "Only 10 more to go!"

    Maybe Tootsie Pops aren't the brain food I've been told they are?
    posted by rtha at 9:51 AM on March 18, 2008


    Why do I have mustard in my hair?

    That's not mustard.
    posted by languagehat at 9:53 AM on March 18, 2008


    Hey, midcaps are good for being able to abbreviate long names. (I admit with shame that when I signed up, I didn't realize we could have spaces in our names)

    There's no shame in giving up now.
    drezdn, you sound like my mother in law.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 9:57 AM on March 18, 2008


    Now I'm wishing I hadn't turned that snotty kleenex from konolia into a voodoo doll.

    Apropos of nothing, did you guys know that when I was a kid, I broke my arm at Marianne Faithfull's dad's farm/artists retreat? I fell off a log (really). I have a cool scar from it. But because I broke it on the day before we kids were supposed to learn how to milk a cow, I have never learned how to milk a cow.
    posted by rtha at 10:06 AM on March 18, 2008


    languagehat said: "That's not mustard."

    Yeah, I knew that one was (ahem) coming.
    posted by pineapple at 10:07 AM on March 18, 2008


    Are you all insane?! Orange Tootsie Pops are the bestest!

    PS: One of the falcons (probably Clara) is in the nest. She was dozing off like she couldn't keep her eyes open. Kyoot!
    posted by deborah at 10:08 AM on March 18, 2008


    I can't believe getting this post to 1000 is taking so long. ONTD has a "Free for All Friday" post every Friday, and that post reaches the LJ limit of 5000 comments in less than 12 hours (sometimes much less- last week it was somewhere less than 7).
    posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 10:13 AM on March 18, 2008 [1 favorite]


    rtha, I did not know that.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 10:15 AM on March 18, 2008 [1 favorite]


    A tootsie pop is what parents give you when they're trying to train you not to like candy.
    posted by shmegegge at 10:23 AM on March 18, 2008


    Dear AskMetafilter: how do I reconcile the steaming pile of crap that is the current code with my optimism that the same people who created it will do better this time around?

    Thanks,

    Crotchety Old Feller
    posted by tkolar at 10:26 AM on March 18, 2008


    I can't believe getting this post to 1000 is taking so long. ONTD has a "Free for All Friday" post every Friday, and that post reaches the LJ limit of 5000 comments in less than 12 hours

    No offense or anything, but I kind of feel like we should actually be PROUD that we don't quite "measure up" to a shitty celebrity gossip aggregator on Livejournal.
    posted by dersins at 10:28 AM on March 18, 2008 [2 favorites]


    That's a sleepy looking falcon alright. Oh hey - three eggs, at least!

    Orange Tootsie Pops are an abomination.

    ONTD has a "Free for All Friday" post every Friday, and that post reaches the LJ limit of 5000 comments in less than 12 hours (sometimes much less- last week it was somewhere less than 7).

    Yeah, but we're all about quality here, not quantity. That's what's important!
    posted by rtha at 10:29 AM on March 18, 2008


    Blasphemy! Tootsie Pops are only second to Blow Pops in their level of sheer goodness. This excel at the hard/soft dichotomy that other candies fail miserably at, plus they have stars on their wrappers, predicting emo style decades ahead of time, possibly inspire it.

    Now licorice is a candy that maximizes the suck.
    posted by drezdn at 10:30 AM on March 18, 2008


    Orange is the best flavor in everything! EVERYTHING!

    Except juice, the juice fails in the face of lemonaide.
    posted by drezdn at 10:32 AM on March 18, 2008


    Why didn't I know it was a stupid idea using your real name when joining metafilter?
    posted by Jody Tresidder at 10:33 AM on March 18, 2008


    My wife, throughout her life would put her candy flavors, and any enjoyable food really, from least enjoyable to most enjoyable, then start from the least and work to the best.

    So once, she laid out all of her frosted mini-wheats from least frosted to most. Suffering through the crappy maximum wheat ones, longing for the sugary goodness at the other end. With only a few left, her dad came by and ate the best one.

    Another time, she spent days eating the crappy easter candy, starting with the jelly beans, working through the other cruft, so one day she could revel in the joy of the Cadbury creme egg. Unfortunately, her sister, disappointed that she was out of Cadbury creme egss already ate my wife's.

    There's a lesson in there somewhere.
    posted by drezdn at 10:36 AM on March 18, 2008 [3 favorites]


    I saw some sort of Australian licorice "treat" in a store about a month ago... Something is desperately wrong with those people.

    It was called 'soft eating licorice' and was, shockingly, coated in milk chocolate. They were ~7" long sticks of flaccid licorice with a thick layer of chocolate around them. They looked like neatly arranged narrow turds laying in the plastic tray.

    Whoever thought "Hey! You know what this chocolate needs? LICORICE!" needs their head examined.
    posted by CKmtl at 10:39 AM on March 18, 2008


    I don't know which tickles me more -- that this particular motley crew of MesFits is gamely, goofily insistent on

    GOING

    ALL

    THE

    WAY....

    or that cortex is gamely, goofily going along with us.

    I'll just take this time and space to say:

    - I feel strangely edified for having read the entire McCartney/Mills judgment. I don't know why. Maybe it's that the great, grand Sir Paul has to do deal with petty, upsetting BS like the rest of the masses?

    - I still wish there was a subsite called MeFi Messages, and it could have quickie no-response postings that aren't really good for the green or gray or Projects or Jobs, like "Any MeFite in the Chicago area want four MBA textbooks? Free, you pick up" or "Last minute meet-up, be at Tir na Nog on 8th Ave in one hour" or "I'm looking for a smart MeFite to proof-read my blah-blah before noon tomorrow, ping me if you're that bored."

    - This thread has made me really want Dum-Dums. Like, rilly bad.

    - I didn't sleep and now I want coffee but am scared I'll get the fatigue+caffeine jitters. Which wouldn't benefit anyone, really.
    posted by pineapple at 10:40 AM on March 18, 2008


    When jouke was here for a meetup, he brought some outstandlingly strange Netherlandish licorice that was salty and bizarre and really good.
    posted by rtha at 10:48 AM on March 18, 2008


    The falcons have swapped sitting duties, by the way. Clara's gone for breakfast, and Jose is now on the nest.

    Did you know that a male falcon is called a tiercel? It's because male falcons are about 1/3 the size of female falcons. This size differential is common for most raptors.
    posted by rtha at 10:55 AM on March 18, 2008


    The falcons have swapped sitting duties, by the way. Clara's gone for breakfast, and Jose is now on the nest.

    I missed the earlier falcon talk, but if you're interested, I have to recommend The Peregrine by J.A. Baker. It's a slim book that chronicles following a pair of falcons through the marsh's of England for a year. It's not a natural history, but it's extraordinarily evocative.
    posted by OmieWise at 11:00 AM on March 18, 2008


    or that cortex is gamely, goofily going along with us.

    Are you kidding? cortex is the gameliest goof in town. He lives for threads like this.
    posted by languagehat at 11:03 AM on March 18, 2008


    salty Dutch licorice = horror
    posted by LobsterMitten at 11:05 AM on March 18, 2008


    Pony Request: Re-Enable IMG tags in threads that have 1,000+ comments.
    posted by yeti at 11:08 AM on March 18, 2008


    salty Dutch licorice = horror

    *respect for LobsterMitten - and her damn midcap - plunges. Again.*

    But wait - more for me!

    *respect skyrockets*
    posted by rtha at 11:13 AM on March 18, 2008


    And I hope that when my time on this earth is up, I will manage via some intricate and bizarre boating/computing accident to die for a thread like this.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 11:14 AM on March 18, 2008


    I would like to joke about beets and whatnot, but I think I just hit on a realization: U.N. Owen/InnocentBystander has been practicing financial domination on MetaFilter:

    Financial domination is like "give me your money. And stuff. Yeah, stuff, too. Right now. Or else. Or else what? Or else I won't take your money! And then you'll be sorry!"

    This actually works.


    O_o I guess it does work -- she got $250 out of the forum.

    PS. InnocentBystander/UN Owen, you are a decent writer. The problem is that you are not content to let fiction remain fiction -- you keep wanting to hook people's hearts with your sob stories.

    Maybe you should quit the internet for a bit, and get your work to publishers.
    posted by ntartifex at 11:16 AM on March 18, 2008


    I just spent $150 on a stats book that I will use for one day, because my harebrained professor decided an openbook midterm made more sense than a midterm with a formula sheet, and my previously ingenious plan of sharing textbooks with friends thus fails in face of the need for Z-tables.

    Said stats midterm is on Wednesday and I am on Metafilter Tuesday afternoon.

    I just received two rejection letters in one day, meaning that the number of options I have for a summer job is now exactly zero.

    I am pissed off, dammit, and someone needs to flame out so I can cheer up.
    posted by Phire at 12:28 PM on March 18, 2008


    For what it's worth, the InnocentBystander account is now officially closed. Didn't hear back from either party in the last week, despite someone definitely hitting the site with the account in the interim. Meh.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 12:56 PM on March 18, 2008


    I'd just like to say how much I like the chocolate orange sticks from Trader Joe's. They're disgusting, if I think about them -- but so, so delicious.
    posted by The corpse in the library at 1:15 PM on March 18, 2008


    Hi. What did I miss?
    posted by danOstuporStar at 1:38 PM on March 18, 2008


    For what it's worth, the InnocentBystander account is now officially closed. Didn't hear back from either party in the last week, despite someone definitely hitting the site with the account in the interim. Meh.

    Eeeenteresting.

    It's really nice out, y'all*. Go outside and walk around!

    *This offer valid only where it's nice out. Void where it's shitty.
    posted by rtha at 1:42 PM on March 18, 2008


    Looking out my window, that comment was CHICAGOIST, rtha. Flagged.
    posted by SpiffyRob at 2:17 PM on March 18, 2008


    It's effing gorgeous in the Silicon Valley today.
    posted by tkolar at 2:24 PM on March 18, 2008


    If this thread reaches 2000, I'll kill off my sockpuppets.
    posted by drezdn at 2:28 PM on March 18, 2008


    Looking out my window, that comment was CHICAGOIST, rtha. Flagged.

    Flag YOU, man. I said "void where shitty"! And I love Chicago, but not its weather.

    And yeah, tkolar, I don't know where you are, but off 280 near SLAC it's like, perfect. 65 degrees, sunny, little puffy clouds in the sky, the gentle breezes....poppies are blooming, everything's really really green, birds are chirping and nesting and courting.

    Spring!
    posted by rtha at 2:40 PM on March 18, 2008


    MADNESS?!
    posted by shmegegge at 2:43 PM on March 18, 2008


    danOstuporStar: "Hi. What did I miss?"

    What happened to Uranus?
    posted by team lowkey at 3:15 PM on March 18, 2008


    THIS
    posted by cortex (staff) at 3:20 PM on March 18, 2008


    I'm down in Santa Clara near Great America. Yeah it's an industrial park, but from my window all I see is trees and blue sky and the occasional fluffy white cloud drifting by.
    posted by tkolar at 3:20 PM on March 18, 2008


    IS
    posted by cortex (staff) at 3:21 PM on March 18, 2008


    *chucks ball overhand to shmegegge*
    posted by cortex (staff) at 3:21 PM on March 18, 2008


    dude, it's for comment 1000. you know how this works, and how often I fuck it up.
    posted by shmegegge at 3:24 PM on March 18, 2008


    From my window I see the roughly 2' of snow covering the lawn, the massive pile of snow caused by the neighbours across the street asking (paying?) the city snowplough guy to clear a makeshift parking spot on their lawn, leafless skeletal trees, the snirty street, and the slightly less impressive pile of snow and ice that I made while shoveling the roof clear.

    Spring? We don't need no steenkin' Spring.
    posted by CKmtl at 3:32 PM on March 18, 2008


    Since it seems like we're closing in on the ol' Grand, and since I'll be afk at the end, I just want to say thanks to you all, you've been really nifty, and also you are very pretty and that is a nice shirt.

    Go strong, team! Live strong! Be strong! You! Can! Go! All! The! Way!
    posted by pineapple at 3:34 PM on March 18, 2008


    Yeah, but I've been missing milestones all day (mefi post 70000 and usernumber 70000!), so I want to be really really ready for this one.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 3:34 PM on March 18, 2008


    So there's this little basket that sits on a low filing cabinet in front of my cube. This is the Basket of Pure Evil, so named because that's where candy lives. Various workers contribute evil to it. At the moment, it is full of miniature-for-Valentine's-Day Tootsie Pops, which someone put in this morning when I wasn't paying attention.

    They are all cherry-flavored.

    LobsterMitten - wanna come over and raid the Basket of Pure Evil?
    posted by rtha at 3:34 PM on March 18, 2008


    rtha said: "LobsterMitten - wanna come over and raid the Basket of Pure Evil?"

    Today's winner in the "Sounds Like An Indecent Proposal But Actually Isn't" Competition.
    posted by pineapple at 3:35 PM on March 18, 2008


    Oh yeah - if by some miracle this hasn't reached 1000 comments by 7pm Pacific tonight, expect contributions from the Metafilter Chorale (or whatever we're calling ourselves), which meets for its first rehearsal tonight.
    posted by rtha at 3:37 PM on March 18, 2008


    It's too warm outside. The liquorice in my pocket melted.
    posted by subbes at 3:41 PM on March 18, 2008


    Yeah, but I've been missing milestones all day (mefi post 70000 and usernumber 70000!), so I want to be really really ready for this one.

    I just can't help but wonder if there's not a brand new account being born out of the ashes of U.N. Owen and Innocent Bystander, growing and festering and waiting...waiting for it's chance to insinuate itself amongst us once more.
    posted by goshling at 4:26 PM on March 18, 2008


    If pineapple leaves the thread before comment #1000, konolia wins the thread. Her prize: 1000 beet-flavored Dum Dums.
    posted by dw at 4:38 PM on March 18, 2008


    rtha: totally would, and would bring my halfbag of chocolate and orange ones to swap you. But wrong side of the country.

    Also, you can enjoy the salty licorice because you're not getting any help with it from me. Blargh.

    Fave Trader Joes item: their fruit leather, which very disturbingly has the consistency of real leather but is very very tasty. Like, burn your tongue with its fruit acidity tasty.

    Furthermore, who says we're quitting after only 1000?
    posted by LobsterMitten at 4:40 PM on March 18, 2008


    Now to make dinner: black beans and rice with perfectly ripe (fingers crossed) mango.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 4:42 PM on March 18, 2008


    The mango tossed in with the beans and rice or raw strips on the side?
    posted by Burhanistan at 4:48 PM on March 18, 2008


    I'm not a big Trader Joe's fan. It's always crowded and doesn't feel like a full-service grocery store. I usually go to Whole Paycheck or the PCC or Met Market.

    Oh Larry's, how I miss you.
    posted by dw at 4:54 PM on March 18, 2008


    Stupid country. So big. And no transporter technology. Where is my transporter technology, dammit!

    We had an awesome mango last night: perfectly ripe, buttery, juicy. I could've eaten ten of them.

    TJ's has too many things that are delicious for me to choose just one. It's all yummy.
    posted by rtha at 4:56 PM on March 18, 2008


    Pshaw to your Whole Foods and your Traders Joe. Here in Portland we have the greatest local supermarket chain I've ever experienced.
    posted by dersins at 4:58 PM on March 18, 2008


    or that cortex is gamely, goofily going along with us.

    You're far too trusting.

    He's stringing us along, so he can close the thread at 999.

    Threadtease.
    posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 5:14 PM on March 18, 2008


    black beans and rice

    Now, that's the best thing I've heard all day.

    *slavers*
    posted by languagehat at 5:20 PM on March 18, 2008


    SO CLOSE AND YET SO FAR
    posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 5:20 PM on March 18, 2008 [1 favorite]


    And now I want a caipirinha. Why, oh why, did I leave NYC?
    posted by languagehat at 5:20 PM on March 18, 2008


    DON'T SHOUT IN MY EAR
    posted by languagehat at 5:21 PM on March 18, 2008


    In other news, I'm pretty sure this is the gayest fabric in the history of fabric, which is saying a lot considering, y'know, fabric.
    posted by dersins at 5:24 PM on March 18, 2008 [1 favorite]


    I wish I knew how to quit you, Joann's Fabric.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 5:29 PM on March 18, 2008


    Or Fabric Depot, speaking of awesome Portland retail establishments.
    posted by dersins at 5:35 PM on March 18, 2008


    He's stringing us along, so he can close the thread at 999.

    That would move my level of respect for him from 'better than indifferent' to 'full-blown hero worship'.
    posted by quin at 5:40 PM on March 18, 2008


    Beans rice and mango, fruit leather, beets, gay cowboy fabric, islamofacist Martian vikings and salt licorice.

    I want to live in this thread forever.
    posted by Dr. Curare at 5:49 PM on March 18, 2008


    Oh, hey, we forgot to talk about The Jews.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 6:00 PM on March 18, 2008


    burhanistan: strips on the side. Mmmmmm....

    languagehat: caipirinha sounds like a fried South American rodent served on a stick. Am I right?

    dersins: holy hell. where did that come from? does this have to do with W.H. Auden?

    Also, Wegmans is better than Trader Joes, but the Trader Joe's fruit leather is an experience unto itself.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 6:01 PM on March 18, 2008


    I heard the Jews like velcro instead of shoelaces.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 6:03 PM on March 18, 2008


    Trader Joe's is the Aldi's of organic food retailers. There I said it.
    posted by drezdn at 6:03 PM on March 18, 2008


    16 comments to go! Come on people! I don't want to miss this when I am driving home from work!
    posted by mrzarquon at 6:33 PM on March 18, 2008


    .
    posted by desuetude at 6:38 PM on March 18, 2008


    That's just given me incentive not to post.
    posted by subbes at 6:39 PM on March 18, 2008


    ok, I am now going home, all of you folks hiding so you can hit 1000 when I am not looking; can post now.






    I mean it.


    I'm leaving this very moment.
    posted by mrzarquon at 6:42 PM on March 18, 2008


    Its
    posted by yhbc at 6:44 PM on March 18, 2008


    an
    posted by yhbc at 6:44 PM on March 18, 2008


    old
    posted by yhbc at 6:44 PM on March 18, 2008


    joke
    posted by yhbc at 6:44 PM on March 18, 2008


    but
    posted by yhbc at 6:45 PM on March 18, 2008


    I see you, peeking out from behind the door.
    posted by subbes at 6:45 PM on March 18, 2008


    so
    posted by yhbc at 6:45 PM on March 18, 2008


    am
    posted by yhbc at 6:45 PM on March 18, 2008


    I.
    posted by yhbc at 6:45 PM on March 18, 2008


    Happy
    posted by yhbc at 6:46 PM on March 18, 2008


    mrzarquon is on his way home now! Will he make it in time?

    The suspense is *killing* me.
    posted by goshling at 6:46 PM on March 18, 2008


    (Wait for it!)
    posted by yhbc at 6:46 PM on March 18, 2008


    1000!!!
    posted by yhbc at 6:46 PM on March 18, 2008


    Do I at least get 1001?
    posted by subbes at 6:47 PM on March 18, 2008


    HAPPY NEW YEAR
    posted by cortex (staff) at 6:59 PM on March 18, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Curse you all!

    I was this || close to trying to post from my iphone, but this page takes forever to load over edge.
    posted by mrzarquon at 7:17 PM on March 18, 2008


    sparta!
    posted by shmegegge at 7:31 PM on March 18, 2008


    This will not be over quick. You will not enjoy it. I am not AskMe.
    posted by Phire at 8:13 PM on March 18, 2008


    I just had wine with an astronomer and a biologist who didn't know who Arthur C. Clarke was. What kind of world is this?!
    posted by LobsterMitten at 8:14 PM on March 18, 2008


    mrzarquon said: "Curse you all!

    I was this || close to trying to post from my iphone, but this page takes forever to load over edge.
    "

    omg yes. And scrolling big threads = also a beating. Note to self: next pony request, ask if Mobile Mefi can be paginated, or at least have a link up top next to "skip to main content" that reads "skip to comment box" or "skip to last unread" or "skip to bottom."
    posted by pineapple at 8:15 PM on March 18, 2008 [2 favorites]


    Seriously. Do I have to read it?

    Ok, then just tell me this: were there sugarpubes?

    posted by danOstuporStar at 8:31 PM on March 18, 2008


    Hi gang, whatcha doing in he.... OMIGOD!!!!!
    posted by wendell at 8:55 PM on March 18, 2008


    I'd just like to say how much I like the chocolate orange sticks from Trader Joe's. They're disgusting, if I think about them -- but so, so delicious.

    I can easily plow through a whole container of those in a sitting. Of course, I want to puke afterwards, but it was yummy getting there.

    Also, cherry flavoured candy is an abomination unto Buddha. It tastes like cough syrup. *gag*
    posted by deborah at 9:00 PM on March 18, 2008


    Which way is she spinning now, hmm?
    posted by Burhanistan at 9:06 PM on March 18, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Well, dang, y'all! Congrats, yhbc!

    Just so you know, the first rehearsal of the do-re-me-fi chorus went really well. We're looking forward to performing at the 10th anniversary metafilter meetup. And yes, we made "your favorite chorus sucks" jokes.
    posted by rtha at 10:46 PM on March 18, 2008


    . . . I apologise if this creative approach blurs my questions.

    Meaning will tend to explode occasionally.
    posted by Skot at 11:15 PM on March 18, 2008


    Come on only 986 to go, don't give up now.
    posted by Tenuki at 5:11 AM on March 19, 2008


    Well done, yhbc! A man after my own heart.

    chocolate orange sticks

    No, I think not.
    posted by languagehat at 6:21 AM on March 19, 2008


    I - that is the I who was stupid enough to use her real name when joining metafilter - put this painfully almost-ignored joke in the recent thread about "Hyperthymesia, a condition where the affected person has incredible recall of the most trivial events in his/her life".

    I timidly thought my joke was perfectly on topic, brought a "light touch" to the discussion of neurological oddities and had, maybe, a certain surreal chocolate orange stick flavor. (Others could use use the mod endorsed free space to showcase their own cruelly overlooked darlings?)

    So here's my great hyperthymesia rib tickler again:


    Tourist visiting way out west is introduced to an Indian Chief by a guide.


    Guide says: "This Indian chief is amazing. Ask him any question - no matter how dumb - about anything he did any day in his life and he can answer it in a flash."

    Tourist thinks for a bit and says: "Okay, Indian Chief - what did you eat for breakfast 19 years ago today?"

    Indian hardly pauses before answering "Eggs!".

    Tourist stalks off - disgusted. Tells the guide "Gee, he could just be making that up for all I know. Whatever..."

    TWENTY YEARS LATER.

    Tourist is revisiting places he's been and spots an ancient Indian Chief sitting outside a store. Remembering stuff from cowboy movies, and feeling a bit foolish, tourist raises one palm to the Chief and says politely "How, Chief!!"

    Indian hardly pauses before answering: "Scrambled!"


    posted by Jody Tresidder Yesterday [1 favorite +]
    posted by Jody Tresidder at 9:04 AM on March 19, 2008 [4 favorites]


    I enjoyed that joke so much I went to the trouble of finding the MeFi thread and favoriting your comment. So don't ever feel your participation in this thread has been fruitless.
    posted by languagehat at 9:37 AM on March 19, 2008


    ditto LH. now you have three favourites! :D
    posted by Phire at 9:42 AM on March 19, 2008


    But what i don't get is why did the conductor answer "No, the 5:30."
    posted by drezdn at 9:54 AM on March 19, 2008


    drezdn, that's when the radio soap arrives.

    Same as in town.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 10:04 AM on March 19, 2008



    ... in drizzly NY a woman suddenly beams at her screen...
    xxxxxxxx
    posted by Jody Tresidder at 10:20 AM on March 19, 2008


    Jody, that's adorable.
    posted by Phire at 10:25 AM on March 19, 2008


    It's drizzly here in the Pioneer Valley too, and I'm goddam sick of it.

    I blame cortex. Him and his wizard hat black trench coat.
    posted by languagehat at 12:37 PM on March 19, 2008


    Last night was rainy and windy. Normally I have an outdoors get-together on Tuesdays, but I skipped it.

    Instead, I stayed home and worked on a craft project. And injured my hand pretty badly in the process. Moral: I should go out in the rain more often to avoid injury.

    Today the weather is beautiful, so I'm staying inside.
    posted by adamrice at 1:34 PM on March 19, 2008


    languagehat, for some reason I never remember that you're a Happy Valley denizen. For some reason, I always imagine you in Chicago. I have no idea why. Say hello to the Valley for me - I lived there (Northampton) for a couple of years a while back, and I have very fond memories of it.

    Weather report for here: cooler than yesterday, but sunny, with a few clouds. It's breezy, so all the cherry blossoms (yes, the trees are in full bloom) are floating around like pink and white snow.

    Jody - I like the joke, too.
    posted by rtha at 1:39 PM on March 19, 2008


    After 3-4 days of near-zero or above-zero weather, it's SNOWING again. Fucking Canadian Winter! I am so moving to Australia.
    posted by Phire at 1:44 PM on March 19, 2008


    I only visited Chicago once, in the summer of 1987 (baseball trip—I fell madly in love with Wrigley Field, where I could talk to Bill Robinson, the Mets' first-base coach, practically in a normal voice from where I was sitting, and Old Comiskey was pretty great, too, especially the old-style urinals), but I liked it a lot even though I arrived in the middle of a rainstorm so bad the airport was closed and I missed the first game I had a ticket for. Biggest surprise: great Mexican food!
    posted by languagehat at 1:46 PM on March 19, 2008


    I went to first grade at Happy Valley Elementary, but it's a different Happy Valley.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 2:24 PM on March 19, 2008


    I'm sensing a certain lack of commitment here. Sure, it's fun and sexy to "get to a thousand," but the real MeFites are in it for the long haul. The horizon beckons, people. Are you MeFite enough to take the longboat out to meet it?
    posted by languagehat at 5:20 PM on March 19, 2008 [2 favorites]


    For you Canadians: An Open Letter to Mother Nature. Dear Bitch, Are you for real?
    posted by stefanie at 5:23 PM on March 19, 2008


    The way things have been going recently, people are going to start suggesting that participating in a longboat should result in an auto-ban.

    Wir verbieten auf der Auto-ban.
    Wir verbieten auf der Auto-ban.
    posted by grouse at 5:28 PM on March 19, 2008


    drezdn - But what i don't get is why did the conductor answer "No, the 5:30."
    Oh boy! did you mess up that punchline. It was the station agent and it was the 5:15.
    posted by tellurian at 5:34 PM on March 19, 2008


    The way things have been going recently, people are going to start suggesting that participating in a longboat should result in an auto-ban.

    Well, it should.

    Either that or in a gift of a totem kitty.
    posted by dersins at 5:37 PM on March 19, 2008


                Iam  the op  erat  or  of  mypoc ket cal culat or
    posted by cortex (staff) at 5:39 PM on March 19, 2008


    I'm sensing a certain lack of commitment here. Sure, it's fun and sexy to "get to a thousand," but the real MeFites are in it for the long haul. The horizon beckons, people. Are you MeFite enough to take the longboat out to meet it?

    Hey, I'm back again.

    I visted NoHo and the valley often. I don't remember much of it, since it involved trips around hampshire parties, but it was a very pretty place.

    Someday I wish to visit and sleep in a real bed while doing so!
    posted by mrzarquon at 6:39 PM on March 19, 2008


    cortex, you interest me strangely.

    I just saw "In Bruges". Not good, and I'm having trouble putting my finger on why. Is Colin Farrell just not a good actor? Was it the trying to have it both ways (black comedy; serious movie about honor among thieves and redemption...)? Was it the score?

    Any thoughts?
    posted by LobsterMitten at 7:37 PM on March 19, 2008


    Is Colin Farrell just not a good actor?

    It's the eyebrows. I can't get past them.

    (I actually liked the movie more than it sounds like you did, but I did think it was flawed -- definitely trying to have it several ways; on top of being a black comedy and serious movie about honor among thieves, it had that slightly surreal/grotesque Lynchian filter over everything. Maybe a movie can work if it plays at being two things, but not three.)
    posted by scody at 7:46 PM on March 19, 2008


    Yeah, I agree that the eyebrows (while charming and expressive in still pictures) are a little much in action. And that there's a weirdly early-90s quality to the David Lynchey quirky stuff (a racist dwarf with horse tranquilizers! skull masks! hookers!). And then a fourth layer, [SPOILERS SPOILERS ] the really graphic gorey, everybody dies on screen with gouts of blood and exploding heads stuff. [END SPOILERS]

    Very odd, because the whole thing was competent, but somehow it didn't add up to a good movie. I gather the director is a playwright mainly, so maybe that's it. Love Brendan Gleeson, though.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 8:35 PM on March 19, 2008


    It's the eyebrows. I can't get past them.

    Insofar as they are literally an obstruction, yes.

    Fun fact: Zepplin's lyric, "if there's a bustle in your hedgerow", was actually a prescient evocation of COLIN FARRELL FROWNING.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 8:40 PM on March 19, 2008 [2 favorites]


    Black caterpillars
    Young and anxious to be loved
    Leaping and dancing
    posted by LobsterMitten at 9:01 PM on March 19, 2008 [1 favorite]


    My favorite--by which I mean "most confusing"-- example of Colin Farrell's acting "business" is at the very end of this clip from Minority Report. To express his displeasure that Tom Cruise is getting away from him, he grits his teeth and punches his own palm. I always like to imagine that he got the idea for doing this by imagining what Mimi Rogers or Nicole Kidman would do in the scene.
    posted by Skot at 11:56 PM on March 19, 2008 [1 favorite]


    I lived half my life in the San Fernando Valley, or as LosAngelenos call it "THE Valley." It was definitely not happy.

    cortex,
    You
    are
    a
    mod
    er
    a
    tor
    of
    the
    Me
    ta
    Fil
    ter.

    La
    ter!
    posted by wendell at 4:46 AM on March 20, 2008


    Lobstermitten---
    I agree wholeheartedly with your take on "In Bruges", but must add that the young girl (whose name escapes me) was delightfully unmannered and cute as a button.
    posted by Dizzy at 6:41 AM on March 20, 2008


    When I was in grade five, we had a compulsory talent show at school camp. My two friends and I acted out that Indian joke Jody told upthread. I'm pretty sure nobody in the audience got the joke - the act was a little out of place, most kids having chosen to get a group together and dance to a pop song (Gangsters Paradise, I saw the Sign, and one genuinely funny ABBA adaptation).
    posted by jacalata at 10:02 AM on March 20, 2008


    Speaking of ABBA, I was delighted to see this variation on The Dot posted to the recent obit thread:

    A B . A

    Sublime. I've (along with at least a couple other people) previously flirted with some groundwork on the history/timeline of The Dot, but I'd still love to see a real close examination of it, its development over time and the development of reactions to it.

    But it's hard to canvas the db for comments "about" something in detail—I can venture it'd be possible to set up a "report odd placement of '.' characters" seive that would help me find (among no doubt a lot of unrelated noise) comments that use a "." in an unusual, not-just-a-dot-on-a-line-by-itself way, but that still doesn't help with (a) comments about the dot or (b) non-'.' variations on the dot.

    Maybe I should harness the backtaggers once they've wrapped that up.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 10:15 AM on March 20, 2008


    I think you could do a series of queries to limit first to the obitfilter posts, and then for non alpha numeric characters existing before and after a '.'

    you could actually filter for any ascii art (including the Roy Scheider obit thread, with the shark ones) looking for any string of non alpha numeric characters over 2 characters in length. That should give you a pretty sizable chunk of great '.' uses.
    posted by mrzarquon at 11:12 AM on March 20, 2008


    Speaking of ABBA, I was delighted to see this variation on The Dot posted to the recent obit thread:

    A B . A


    My first reaction was like yours. And then I realized that that's not who that B is. Still clever, but diminished slightly.

    Regarding In Bruges -- hey, for a popcorn movie, it was fun. I say this as someone who watches very, very few mainstream-cineplex movies, though. And it was no-where near as good as Six-Shooter.
    posted by desuetude at 3:26 PM on March 20, 2008


    Speaking of ABBA, I was delighted to see this variation on The Dot posted to the recent obit thread:

    A B . A

    Sublime. I've (along with at least a couple other people) previously flirted with some groundwork on the history/timeline of The Dot, but I'd still love to see a real close examination of it, its development over time and the development of reactions to it.


    Sublime? Fuck that, I hate that sort of thing with a goddamn passion, particularly on mornings like this one, when I've woken up 90 minutes early because I rolled over and misread my stupid, stupid alarm clock and thought it was later. Half-clever dipshits who post '!' or ';' or whatfuckingever because they're uncomfortable with expressing a moment of respectful silence are the same kind of crass look-at-me losers who would bring a whoopee cushion to a funeral. Of course, this kneejerk dot shit gets on my nerves too, nowadays. Herd behaviour.

    I just want to fucking slap everybody this morning, I think.
    posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 3:36 PM on March 20, 2008


    Which is funny, because I really like Sublime's studio releases but when one of the many lo-fi live recordings I got from a friend (and which I should, clearly, remove from my iPod at this point) comes up on shuffle, I want to dig Bradley Nowell up and slap him. Gack. Unlistenable stuff. High school musician stuff.

    Really, I agree on one level with the objection to people mocking the idea of respectful silence, but delight on a separate and unrelated level in the inventiveness combined with such a minimalist starting point as a single fullstop. (Whatever the motive—and in the case of the Abba thread, I don't think there was any clear indication of mockery or malice intended.)
    posted by cortex (staff) at 3:46 PM on March 20, 2008


    I wanna know, Agnetha am I the only one, tell me?
    And she said, "You're not the only one, but you're the best, Benny"
    ...BA! BA!

    (I think Bradley's posthumous ruling on the dot or the B is clear. ...Grievin' is not a dot, he said remember that.)

    /me lived in the same dormroom as Bradley Nowell, if the rumors are true, and got way too large a dose.
    posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 4:01 PM on March 20, 2008


    *timidly offers a cookie to a cranky stavros*

    but if you'd rather have coffee or some gin or a hug, those can probably be arranged....although not by me, what with you being waaaaay over there and me being over here
    posted by rtha at 4:02 PM on March 20, 2008


    *enjoys cookie, decrankifies as blood-sugar levels stabilize*
    posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:17 PM on March 20, 2008


    IMDB informs me that the girlfriend in In Bruges is Fleur Delacour from the Harry Potter movies! She's a total cutie (hardly a young girl, she's 25), and she did a good job. I'm not a real fan of the "oh you bad boy, with the ultraviolence, giggle, come back to my place" kind of trope in general, though.

    I like the star field obit ASCII in the Arthur C Clarke thread.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 4:32 PM on March 20, 2008


    rtha: This thread has now reached the point where I have to turn off greasemonkey to get it load in less than a light year.
    If Mefi Navigator is the problem, try downloading the most recent version. It's many times faster than the original. On this thread, my ancient laptop only takes about 3 seconds to run it, and it runs instantaneously on the average thread.

    posted by matthewr at 8:48 PM on March 20, 2008 [2 favorites]


    matthewr, if I could fit a Tootsie Pop in the flavor of your choosing through the intertubes, I would send you a dozen. Thank you!
    posted by rtha at 9:26 PM on March 20, 2008


    You know what's hard to find these days? Chiclets.

    I miss chiclets.
    posted by drezdn at 6:58 AM on March 21, 2008


    I don't know how many time I've told those boys, never call chiclets broadlets.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 7:06 AM on March 21, 2008 [1 favorite]


    I so totally hate people this morning. Except for you guys.

    I got off the freeway at the exit for my work a little while ago. The road to my office is a pretty fast street, but traffic is heavy in the a.m. (it's all offices around here), so the mph is usually not too speedy. But I looked in my rearview mirror and saw this huge pickup truck practically on top of me, and I tapped the brakes a couple of times to tell the driver to back off.

    She did. But I'm not sure it was because she saw my brake lights. Because she was looking in her mirror, putting on her eye makeup.

    We both pulled into the same office park; she went into one parking lot, and I went into another, and I watched her park and go into her building. I wrote her a note and stuck it under her wiper.

    It said: Thank you for not rear-ending me while you were putting on your eye makeup!

    People are assholes. Except for you guys. (Usually.)

    But it's friday and it's bagel day and with any luck my boss will kick me out early, it's been so slow around here.
    posted by rtha at 8:29 AM on March 21, 2008


    rtha, be careful as we are what we hate...
    posted by Burhanistan at 8:34 AM on March 21, 2008


    Hey, that was me in that truck. And you drive like someone's grandmother.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 8:40 AM on March 21, 2008


    I don't know how many time I've told those boys, never call chiclets broadlets.

    ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
    posted by cog_nate at 8:47 AM on March 21, 2008


    cortex, put that damn mascara wand down, at least while you're driving.

    And if I'd known it was you, I would've done a lot worse than leave a note on your truck!

    Bagels have arrived and so I'm not feeling quite as hateful.
    posted by rtha at 9:44 AM on March 21, 2008


    Hey guys, I have a friend visiting from out of town, and im wondering if I should take her to either A) the brunch place i've been before, which is quite good, or if B) I should go to the one I have heard is really good, but have not been before, and also extremely well known for its tasty desserts.

    Any suggestions?
    posted by mrzarquon at 9:48 AM on March 21, 2008


    It's the second day of spring in Seattle and it's 38F. I know all you colder-climed people would laugh at that, but 38 in Seattle at the end of March is friggin' COLD.

    It's supposed to be in the 50s! The daffodils are in bloom! The cherries are budding! And it's cold here. Sigh.
    posted by dw at 9:49 AM on March 21, 2008


    It is snowing like a mutha here in Chicago - at the live passion play in Pilsen, Jesus is carrying his cross through blizzard like conditions. Is this a sign of the apocalypse?

    And if it is the end of the world as we know it, mrzarquon - I would go for the tasty desserts
    posted by readery at 10:55 AM on March 21, 2008


    Come on...weather, out of town guest suggestions? You people can fill this thread with noise better than that. Here's a link to a cool hotel concept that I'm too lazy to make into a post for Metafilter. Talk about that for awhile then maybe we'll hit 1500...
    posted by Burhanistan at 11:11 AM on March 21, 2008


    That's the worst fucking hotel concept I've ever seen, and if you make a post of it you should be first shot, then drawn, then quartered, then banned, then hanged.

    Note: I have not actually investigated the hotel concept. But it needed to be said.
    posted by languagehat at 11:18 AM on March 21, 2008


    Thank you, Burhanistan. You have put all my problems in their place. My new mantra: "At least I'm not sleeping in an underwater hotel in China."
    posted by The corpse in the library at 12:23 PM on March 21, 2008


    you should be first shot, then drawn, then quartered, then banned, then hanged.

    I lazily poked around youtube to try to find the scene from "Three Amigos" where the bandits say something to that effect but didn't find, however I saw pictures of Chevy Chase and when I went back to look at the hotel and noticed that there could be worse uses of giant holes in the ground then I couldn't help but remember Chase's line in "Vacation" when the family is trying to locate the Grand Canyon and he says something like "Christ, it's only the biggest goddammed hole in the country" and then I was back to the quarry and "Three Amigos" and so the associative mind feeds the stream of consciousness and run on sentences also.
    posted by Burhanistan at 12:31 PM on March 21, 2008


    Actually, I think that hotel looks cool as hell. That second pic in the article is beautiful. Now, in place.. I dunno. maybe it'd just seem like you were in a hole in the ground. But I'm quite impressed by the concept.

    And I say, mrzarquon, ask the friend which they'd prefer. Safe or risky. Unless it's a date friend, in which case, take the safe one if it's a new relationship, the riskier one if you're further along.
    posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 12:35 PM on March 21, 2008


    Burhanistan, you will have more luck if you lazily poke around youtube for that scene from Peewee's Big Adventure.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 12:41 PM on March 21, 2008


    ooh....yes.
    posted by Burhanistan at 12:46 PM on March 21, 2008


    Burhanistan, do you know what a plethora is?
    posted by shmegegge at 12:47 PM on March 21, 2008


    Wow, that is a great hole in the ground. I wouldn't mind staying there actually, because i've always wanted to stay in an underwater hotel, ever since i read about this place when I was a kid. My mother was an editor for "America's little inns and bed and breakfasts" so I always wanted to convince her to get us a free stay there. Of course, I was terrified of deep water as a child, but I offered to brave my fear of sharks to stay there. Also, the owner of the book had the amazing foresight to register "inns.com" as their domain back in early '90s, which she sold for a small fortune during the dotcom boom.

    To update, we went to B&O espresso, which is a great place. I had the thai crab cake eggs benedict, and she had the 'crunchy' french toast (french toast with panko breadcrumbs and sugar). It was quite the breakfast.
    posted by mrzarquon at 12:55 PM on March 21, 2008


    Why, guapo?
    posted by Burhanistan at 1:06 PM on March 21, 2008


    My friend and her 1.5 year old daughter just came over, and you know what is completely brain-meltingly cute? A 1.5 year old, who is scared of you at first, but then warms up to you, and wants to hold your hand while she walks down the sidewalk, and then is sad when she and her mom have to leave. I'm a little dazed.

    Also I now realize it's been much too long since I've seen the Three Amigos. So renting it for movie night soon. See that plane up there? It's a mail plane.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 2:02 PM on March 21, 2008


    How do you know?
    posted by Burhanistan at 2:07 PM on March 21, 2008


    LobsterMitten, I have essentially the same experience with small children on a regular basis, except for the "at first, but then warms up to you, and wants to hold your hand while she walks down the sidewalk, and then is sad when she and her mom have to leave." part.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 2:09 PM on March 21, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Dude, I'm 26, and I'm scared of you.
    posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 2:16 PM on March 21, 2008


    IZZUMS YOU JUST THE DUTCHEST LITTLE THING YES YOU IS YES YOU IIIIISSSS ow ow leggo the nose i'm sorry just ow quiddit ow ow
    posted by cortex (staff) at 2:31 PM on March 21, 2008


    cortex: maybe they've seen that picture of you with the donut and they think you're going to do a Cronus on them.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 2:36 PM on March 21, 2008


    *suckles, naps*
    posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 3:11 PM on March 21, 2008


    cortex, I have essentially the same experience with small children on a regular basis, except for the "she and her mom" part. It's she and your mom.
    posted by matthewr at 3:35 PM on March 21, 2008


    oh no you just did NOT
    posted by cortex (staff) at 3:43 PM on March 21, 2008


    Heeheehee.

    All my maternal instincts seem to have been transferred over to cats of all shapes and sizes despite being allergic to them and predisposed being bitten and clawed somewhat painfully by most cats that I encounter. Maybe if I had the same patience and adoration for little kids, they'd be less scared of me. (No really, my sister's then 6-year old friend told her I looked angry.)

    But lookit t3h kitteh!
    posted by Phire at 4:17 PM on March 21, 2008


    oh no you just did NOT

    Well, everyone else did. I don't she why matthewr shouldn't, too.
    posted by dersins at 4:40 PM on March 21, 2008


    All my maternal instincts seem to have been transferred over to cats

    I have thirty pounds of cat and yet I still have spare maternal instinct, which finds its way into compulsive food-preparation for grown men, in the most frustratingly ironic subversion of child-bearing duties ever.
    posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 4:42 PM on March 21, 2008


    Child-bearing duties? Totally overrated. I think about the rapidly dividing growth and I think "tumour zomg".

    [/five years old]

    But y'know, YMMV. M'totally fine with other people having kids. Just leave me alone in my apathy.

    There. Controversial topic. 1500, here we come.
    posted by Phire at 4:45 PM on March 21, 2008


    I'm still in.

    I wish there was a Greasemonkey script that would put the comment number in tiny text behind all the other Greasemonkey stuff I'm running.

    Also I wish I had a cup of tea.

    And, I'm embarrassed that I still laugh at variations on "your mom" jokes.
    posted by pineapple at 6:08 PM on March 21, 2008


    Comment number as in 525345? What would you use that for?
    posted by matthewr at 6:16 PM on March 21, 2008


    Oh, ah, I guess you mean the number of comments in the thread.
    posted by matthewr at 6:17 PM on March 21, 2008


    If I keep misunderstanding things, we'll get to 1500 in no time at all. 1092
    posted by matthewr at 6:18 PM on March 21, 2008


    I can't believe I'm getting away with spamming at Metafilter. *awe*
    posted by Phire at 6:59 PM on March 21, 2008


    matthewr said: "If I keep misunderstanding things, we'll get to 1500 in no time at all. 1092"

    No, matthewr, I think you understand me just fine.               1094
    posted by pineapple at 8:18 PM on March 21, 2008


    1111 will be the next comment to jockey for attainment.
    posted by Burhanistan at 8:29 PM on March 21, 2008


    I'd like to interject here and just say... ***faarrrrrt***

    Also, welcome back burhan!
    posted by not_on_display at 8:32 PM on March 21, 2008


    And then after that, I imagine 1234.

    Though I personally would pay $5 to get the 1337th post. Just sayin'.
    posted by Phire at 8:35 PM on March 21, 2008


    Hi, Mr. n_o_d!
    posted by Burhanistan at 8:37 PM on March 21, 2008


    Hm. Thought process just now:

    "Also, welcome back burhan!" ===>

    Was Burhanistan gone? ===>

    Was there another cool flameout MeTa that I missed? ===>

    Hm. I don't think there was... so it was probably just a normal break for real-life reasons. Or, he was out of town or something. ===>

    I wish there was a list that someone kept of the publicly stated Whuuuuuuu?s, along with the self-imposed hiatuses. ===>

    Hiatusi? ===>

    No more sake for me tonight.

    posted by pineapple at 9:32 PM on March 21, 2008


    1100!
    posted by matthewr at 9:34 PM on March 21, 2008


    I was never gone, even before I was around. There I was, waiting for you to give me form.
    posted by Burhanistan at 9:38 PM on March 21, 2008


    I want sake. Can I have sake?
    posted by Phire at 9:39 PM on March 21, 2008


    Goodness' sake?
    posted by yhbc at 9:52 PM on March 21, 2008


    I was always curious why people were concerned with Jesus Christ's Japanese rice wine.
    posted by Burhanistan at 9:55 PM on March 21, 2008


    (peace be upon him)
    posted by Burhanistan at 9:56 PM on March 21, 2008


    Anybody want to guess how many fingers I'm holding up?
    posted by LobsterMitten at 10:48 PM on March 21, 2008


    Is that how they measure sake? I thought fingers just applied to hard liquor pour-to levels.
    posted by Burhanistan at 10:50 PM on March 21, 2008


    Well, since you were typing while you... typed that comment... and since I tend to make the assumption that people type properly with fingers on home row and all that, I shall say 0.

    What do I win?

    (Also, the internets has corrupted me. I see Easter, and think Zombie Jesus. *roasts in hell*)
    posted by Phire at 10:51 PM on March 21, 2008


    Mittens got fingers?
    posted by The corpse in the library at 9:02 AM on March 22, 2008


    Pull my finger
    posted by Joseph Gurl at 9:30 AM on March 22, 2008


    *pulls*
    posted by cortex (staff) at 10:14 AM on March 22, 2008


    pulls was 1111, yo
    posted by Burhanistan at 10:15 AM on March 22, 2008


    The "ll" therein was an homage to same. And to the WTC.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 10:46 AM on March 22, 2008


    m|n


    Kittens vs Mittens.

    Smoking Mittens?

    Hurray!
    posted by mrzarquon at 10:53 AM on March 22, 2008


    Easter Bunny Party!
    posted by mrzarquon at 10:56 AM on March 22, 2008


    Easter Bunny died for your sins.
    posted by languagehat at 11:01 AM on March 22, 2008


    The Easter Bunny's dead?

    *cries*
    posted by rtha at 11:18 AM on March 22, 2008


    .

    =!!=
    posted by mrzarquon at 12:37 PM on March 22, 2008


    I'm done napping. Did I miss anything?
    posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 1:51 PM on March 22, 2008


    I just returned from a Beer Festival!

    WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

    All I can say is look out for the Rogue Bourbon Cherry Cask Ale. That stuff is delicious.

    Also, Red Hook is going back to its roots, with it's MC Hammer IPA.
    posted by mrzarquon at 4:46 PM on March 22, 2008


    Phire, you win Unquantifiable Prestige! If you wish, you can make a little badge to wear around town that says "I was right about the fingers". I'm guessing you'll make new friends.

    In other news, why have I waited this long to begin my huge horrifying stack of papers to mark? Who has a good riddle to console me?
    posted by LobsterMitten at 7:28 PM on March 22, 2008


    Also, practical question: my work computer is a Mac desktop machine that has a one-button mouse. It's running OS 10.2.8, and I'm using Firefox. Anybody know if/how I can make links open in new tabs?
    posted by LobsterMitten at 7:31 PM on March 22, 2008


    Looks like the Onion didn't cache it's old "For Kids" Easter page...that one had a cute little Easter Bunny on the cross.
    posted by Burhanistan at 8:26 PM on March 22, 2008


    Hold down the command key (the one with the apple logo on it) while clicking on the link.

    Also, what's brown and sticky?
    posted by tkolar at 8:39 PM on March 22, 2008


    poo?
    posted by Burhanistan at 8:49 PM on March 22, 2008


    tkolar: thank you! quality of life: improved.

    A rat dipped in honey?
    posted by LobsterMitten at 8:52 PM on March 22, 2008


    Also, what's brown and sticky?

    a stick!

    Next you'll be asking why 6 was afraid of 7 (why yes, I do hang around little kids)
    posted by stefanie at 8:53 PM on March 22, 2008


    Can I just I'm sitting in a hotel room right now with slowish wireless and watching this thread load is weird...the scroll bar placemark keeps on rolling up. That's probably the most exciting thing around for miles in this godforsaken suburb of Big D.
    posted by Burhanistan at 8:57 PM on March 22, 2008


    Big D=Dallas?

    I never before wanted to go to Texas. Until I started birding. Now, all kinds of unlikely places look nearly irresistible to me: the Brownsville Dump (Texas); bits of Nebraska (whooping cranes!); Duluth (excellent raptor migration spot). Who knew?

    Contraption and Ambrosia Voyeur just left our house. We had beers and some leftover Indian pizza and talked about yellow, and grad school, and first jobs. And the Magnetic Fields. And stuff.

    Looking forward to the meetup tomorrow. The weather's been unreasonable gorgeous - we spent much of the afternoon at Ocean Beach, along with half the city (the other half was probably naked at Baker Beach) - and I hope for a repeat for tomorrow's outdoor meetup and bigwheel rally.
    posted by rtha at 9:05 PM on March 22, 2008


    Big D
    posted by Joseph Gurl at 9:44 PM on March 22, 2008


    Big D = Detroit? Duluth? (largest port on Lake Superior. My husband, who is totally odd, entertained a dream of honeymooning in Duluth.) Dhaka? Doha? Dubai?
    posted by LobsterMitten at 10:22 PM on March 22, 2008


    And, the correct answer to how can I get the most out of my canoe? is "with a bailer made of a empty bleach bottle". Observe my restraint in not saying that in Ask.

    rtha, what's on Indian pizza?
    posted by LobsterMitten at 10:27 PM on March 22, 2008


    Indian pizza is one of the most delicious things ever.

    It's Indian food. On pizza.

    nom nom nom nom nom
    posted by rtha at 10:34 PM on March 22, 2008 [1 favorite]


    I'm seriously craving Pho. I wonder if the soup stock I bought is any good.

    ALSO. Unquantifiable Prestige?! I've always wanted one of those!! *Loves and cherishes*
    posted by Phire at 10:56 PM on March 22, 2008


    Aw, rtha, that sounded like fun. For some reason the Ottawa meetups I've been to never seemed to quite take off. I'd love to make plans to head on to the States for MeFi's anniversary meetup, but y'know, poor student etc. Sigh.
    posted by Phire at 10:57 PM on March 22, 2008


    Христос воскрес, everybody!
    posted by matthewr at 2:53 PM on March 23, 2008


    Come over here and say that to my face!
    posted by Phire at 3:35 PM on March 23, 2008


    Воистину воскрес!
    posted by languagehat at 5:13 PM on March 23, 2008


    Big Dallas: where all the concrete freeway pilin's are painted purty and the satellite suburbs glisten like spent spunk in the prairie.
    posted by Burhanistan at 6:27 PM on March 23, 2008


    I want Indian pizza. Oh my yes.

    In the ongoing saga of teh starlings: today we put up a plastic mesh barrier over the vent. Tonight, angry starlings dive-bombing the plastic mesh. I cackle in vindictive glee, but will I reap the whirlwind when their eggs or whatever start to stink? Stay tuned....

    Dallas. I'm hearing the themesong now. Other cities that have theme songs?
    posted by LobsterMitten at 6:49 PM on March 23, 2008


    ^ lobstermitten: cities in song titles -- not necessarily theme songs. [via]
    posted by not_on_display at 7:36 PM on March 23, 2008


    Dude, this is chatfilter. How are we gonna get to 2K if you just answer a chatfiltery question with a helpful link? No, no, no. What we need is a long list of single-line comments naming one song per city. And then flaming fights over what really counts as the theme song.

    Or have you never, you know, *done* chatfilter before?
    posted by LobsterMitten at 8:18 PM on March 23, 2008


    Canonical generalised answer: Theme for Great Cities, Simple Minds.
    posted by matthewr at 8:26 PM on March 23, 2008


    ^ lobster: How are we gonna get to 2K if you just answer a chatfiltery question with a helpful link?

    This is how. [via ordinarypeoplecanwin]

    Or have you never, you know, *done* chatfilter before?

    i have *never* done
    chatfilter until right now.
    are haikus ok?
    posted by not_on_display at 8:40 PM on March 23, 2008


    songs for cities! hmmm.
    "Mexico" by James Taylor.
    ...wait... that's a country.
    posted by not_on_display at 8:43 PM on March 23, 2008


    Oh wait! I got one!
    That song that goes, "dum duh dum,"
    I forget the name.
    posted by not_on_display at 8:44 PM on March 23, 2008


    Mexico, Peru,
    Geneva, Troy, Syracuse,
    Rome: towns in New York
    posted by LobsterMitten at 8:49 PM on March 23, 2008


    OK, really now:
    "My Humps"* by Black Eyed Peas.
    Ohhhh... you said "CITies"

    *with translation
    posted by not_on_display at 8:50 PM on March 23, 2008


    yes, an asterisk counts as a syllable.
    posted by not_on_display at 8:52 PM on March 23, 2008


    cheating, N_O_D?
    of all these pathetic memes
    you fail at haiku


    (apologies. it's late, I'm doing econ, and cranky.)
    posted by Phire at 12:19 AM on March 24, 2008


    I'm a cranky pants:
    Economics homework sucks.
    My apologies.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 7:06 AM on March 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


    No apologies.
    Honor gets what honor needs:
    broadswords at daybreak.
    posted by languagehat at 7:27 AM on March 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Athens, Aberdeen
    Canadian, Odessa
    Dublin: Texas towns

    Happy, Looneyville
    Art, Pep, Bug Tussle
    Dime Box. Yup, Texas.
    posted by adamrice at 7:51 AM on March 24, 2008


    Paris, Italy,
    Amsterdam: also Texas.
    And, Old Dime Box, too.
    posted by pineapple at 7:54 AM on March 24, 2008


    Nixon, Dexter, Fox;
    Phoenix, Olex, Oxbow Dam;
    X-towns: Oregon.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 8:11 AM on March 24, 2008


    Dixonville, Three Lynx?
    Stewart Lennox Addition?
    Yes, that's my state too.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 8:11 AM on March 24, 2008


    Annex, Lexington!
    Buxton, Sixes, Six Corners!
    Helix! Cortex? No.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 8:12 AM on March 24, 2008


    Want Cortex, Texas?
    Obtain parcels from loggers.
    Your dream township born!
    posted by Burhanistan at 8:36 AM on March 24, 2008


    Want a wicked coif?
    Try Cortex Hair Studio
    in the ATL.
    posted by not_on_display at 9:13 AM on March 24, 2008


    ^I fail at haiku?
    Phire, my brother: in Russia,
    Haiku fail at me.
    posted by not_on_display at 9:26 AM on March 24, 2008


    brother comrade.
    posted by not_on_display at 10:40 AM on March 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


    gloucester worcester hull
    peabody framingham lynn...
    where's building 19?
    posted by not_on_display at 10:42 AM on March 24, 2008


    Time, Take Me Back To,
    I'm Twenty Four Hours From,
    Turnaround, County
    posted by dw at 11:20 AM on March 24, 2008


    Bluest skies ever
    He saw were in Seattle?
    PERRY COMO LIES!
    posted by dw at 11:24 AM on March 24, 2008




    Is there a word that encapsulates all of the following: the goosebumps-of-horror one gets when listening to someone completely butcher a song, the urge to laugh and weep at the same time, and low-grade nausea?

    'Cuz this is making me feel [that word].
    posted by CKmtl at 4:18 PM on March 24, 2008


    CKmtl, I call that The Funny Feeling. The best way I describe it (if we're talking about the same thing) is "being mortally embarrassed for someone who apparently doesn't have the self-awareness to be embarrassed for themselves."
    posted by pineapple at 4:52 PM on March 24, 2008


    Okay, since you QUITTERS have clearly QUIT, I'll just take this opportunity to wonder into the abyss whether people actually favorite Mathowie because they think that there was something particularly awesome about what he said? Or because he is Matt Haughey, the God of MetaFilter, the ruler of our worlds.

    Don't get me wrong, I think he says cool things... it's just that it feels sort of... I guess "off" is the word... to me when Matt tosses off something relatively benign and of course it gets favorited.

    Also, I'm feeling sort of curmudgeonly today, so it could be that.
    posted by pineapple at 12:08 PM on March 25, 2008


    If anything, I think I favorite mathowie less because I am afraid of seeming like a simpering sycophant. But he does often say cool things, so that's unfair of me. I shall reform from this day onward.
    posted by Miko at 12:32 PM on March 25, 2008


    I do it because of clause 23.b of my employment contract.

    More seriously, I suppose there's an element of that Ruler Of Our Worlds going on, in a couple different wasy—that Matt is #1 might lead to people find him saying something extra amusing in that context; or, more neutrally, they might favorite some of the things he says as being precedential in a way that is kind of unique to adminhood or the more rarified Matthood. He gets to make the calls, and sometimes folks like to remember the calls.

    I've definitely seen relatively benign policy opinions/restatements from me and from Jessamyn get favorites despite being not very amusing or anything, which I have to presume is part of that same latter deal.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 12:36 PM on March 25, 2008 [1 favorite]


    It liiiiives!!

    In other news, there is a tour group of prospective undergrads walking outside my door right now, looking as if I am a zoo animal while the tour guide says "professors here keep their doors open so that you can go and talk with them when you have questions" etc. But the damn students who have appointments with me right now are not here.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 12:42 PM on March 25, 2008


    But also spring is here and I have my window open to the cool cool breezes for the first time in many months.

    I usually favorite something of mathowie's if he said something that has practical implications (here's how to use the new search function, here's why you should use the contact form, etc).

    With anybody, when I favorite a one-liner that has no implications, it's completely on a whim. For example Brandon Blatcher made a comment about cortex's glossy coat that made me laugh (the phrase "glossy coat" is instant comedy), but I didn't favorite it today, where on another day I might have.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 12:46 PM on March 25, 2008


    Yeah, cortex's glossy coat was funny.

    Additionally, since I'm already outed as a curmudgeon today, I hate the body-fluid hyperbole. "Laughed so hard a little pee came out." "So gross I just threw up in my mouth a little." Haaaaaaate. Diiiiiiiie.

    Sigh. I'm sorry, y'all. I have a serious case of the Mondays.
    posted by pineapple at 1:01 PM on March 25, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Oh crap, please tell me it's Tuesday. I had enough disappointment earlier when I found out it wasn't Wednesday.
    posted by danOstuporStar at 1:07 PM on March 25, 2008


    Well, vomit is really more of an hybrid aggregate of mostly pre-digestive external materials, and in that sense is neither bodily nor fluid, per se. But, regardless: word.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 1:07 PM on March 25, 2008


    What if you favorite something so hard a little pee comes out, and then you barf? (I just did that to cortex's ... I generally don't favorite anything he says because it goes way over my head. Would that mean I'm allergic to cortex?)

    **gargling listerine**

    posted by not_on_display at 1:33 PM on March 25, 2008


    Ugh. I never understood the bodily-fluid analogy. What are you, five years old? You don't need to use shock to get your point across.

    Also, anyone have ideas for handling phone interviews? I just finished my first one, ever, and hate it. Interviews in and of themselves are nerve-wracking enough, but I hate hate hate that I can't meet them in the eye and gauge their reactions to what I'm saying. I depend on the quick mouth corner lifts and slight eyebrow raises to read people, dammit! Fucking phone interviews.

    not_on_display: thank you for that :D I burst out laughing when I read that. And had to explain to my SO why I was laughing. And we subsequently had a 10-minute spat about whether comrade was pronounced "com-rad" or "com-rayde". British pronunciations for the win, yo.
    posted by Phire at 1:34 PM on March 25, 2008


    ...or is that an AskMe question? Kinda new here, li'l help.
    posted by not_on_display at 1:36 PM on March 25, 2008


    Phire: a bicycle horn used in lieu of facial reads usually does the trick for me. Whenever I find myself making a gesture or face on the phone, I honk. If I hear no honk back, I know the message was not received correctly, so I use the bell and the whistle. This usually prompts my mom to hang up--she hates when I interview her.

    (I meant, was my own question about cortical allergies an askme. Not yours, moaya drooga.)
    posted by not_on_display at 1:44 PM on March 25, 2008


    Eh, it's more of a BBQ. Funny though.

    Phire, my sister-in-law who's in HR has always told me that she takes it into account that good people-persons will not always rock the phone interview as much as they would the live interview, and that it's really more a tool of convenience than a filter -- they use it before committing to flying someone out, or they aren't sure about some of the CV info and want to get it verified, etc.

    Awesomeness points for properly spelling "wracking" though. Nerves that get "racked" are a spelling pet peeve of mine. As are "cemetaries," and it took every ounce of my willpower not to go into that AskMe and ask for at least a properly spelled tag.

    But, I triumphed. And did not thread-shit or post unhelpfully.

    Sadly, I wish I could continue to pretend it's because of my awesome willpower, when in fact it's that I monitor my AskMe ratio obsessively.
    posted by pineapple at 1:46 PM on March 25, 2008


    I never understood the bodily-fluid analogy.

    I has had a lot of momentum lately because of whichever goddam Ben Stiller movie featured the "threw up a little in my mouth" line. Which may have actually been one of the best lines in the film, damnably faint praise as that is.

    Dodgeball? It might have been Dodgeball. Christ, that was a terrible film. For a wacky Vince Vaughn comedy vehicle it was crappy, and dude hasn't exactly been discerning in his choice of role on that front so you know that's not light talk.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 1:56 PM on March 25, 2008


    Normally I would just quietly edit the beginning of my comment up there so that it was coherent, but I find the accidental lolcatism charming (and disturbing!) and, besides, gratuitous followup comments are what Team 1500 is all about, am I right?
    posted by cortex (staff) at 1:57 PM on March 25, 2008


    (The answer is that, yes, I am right.)
    posted by cortex (staff) at 1:58 PM on March 25, 2008


    Yes, you are right. Also, your hair looks very nice today.
    posted by pineapple at 2:04 PM on March 25, 2008


    I've been using a new glossing agent.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 2:06 PM on March 25, 2008


    There's this HR manager in my office who thinks that it's cute to call people by their first and last names in a quick and kind of condescending way. What should be done about this?
    posted by Burhanistan at 2:12 PM on March 25, 2008


    There's probably nothing that CAN be done, Burhanistan. HR Managers are tools and / or douchebags by nature, and asking them to refrain from behaving in such a way is like asking a pigeon not to shit on your head.
    posted by dersins at 2:20 PM on March 25, 2008


    Is she new?* If so then my answer is: give her a little while to get over it, because it might be her tool for learning everyone's names quickly, and she'll stop soon enough.

    If she's not new: does she also do it to bosses? If so, then give her a little while to either

    a) get fired or

    b) irritate one of them enough to speak to her about it.

    Are you one of the bosses? If so, guess what, jefe, it's on you. If she does not also do it to the bosses, then, I would say the options are

    a) have the straight up conversation, a la "Hey, Julie? I know you don't mean anything by it but it feels odd to me to hear my whole name used like that, kinda like you're my mom and I'm in trouble for leaving my bike on the sidewalk. Do you think you could stick with just 'Burhanistan' instead of 'Burhanistan Jingleheimer-Schmidt'? Thanks!"

    b) do it back to her until she quits. Yes, this is the passive-aggressive option, but hey - it's the workplace, and she's an HR person who should know better. It's a tricky situation.

    * LobsterMitten, is it wrong that I assumed the HR person was a female? You can tell me honestly, I won't take it personally.
    posted by pineapple at 2:23 PM on March 25, 2008


    You know what's cool? When I scrolled up quickly to click on something else, there was an optical illusion of a person against a yellow background, kind of like that Grace Kelly Taittinger ad. And I thought for a fleeting second that maybe cortex had turned img tag back on in honor of this forgotten thread, the one that straggled to 1000, and straggles even now, going nowhere, meaning nothing... if by 'nothing' I mean a place for a handful of bored but very, very special Mefites to sound their barbaric kvetches in a quiet little corner of the site that nobody sees any more, and also for me to write some wretchedy purply cack that sputters out with me curious as to whether it's "any more" or "anymore," while feeling faintly embarrassed that it took me 20 years to stop putting a hyphen in "no one", and appreciating the irony that a girl who doesn't instinctively know "any more" from "anymore" dared to have a whinge about "cemetary" before.
    posted by pineapple at 2:30 PM on March 25, 2008


    It's a male. But yes, HR managers are kind of like the spawn of used car salesman and nice guy neighbor serial killers.
    posted by Burhanistan at 2:33 PM on March 25, 2008


    Honest question: has anyone ever had a genuinely positive interaction with an HR person/department? Not tolerable or acceptable mind you, good.

    Because if not I'm OK with just bundling them all onto the B ark.
    posted by Skorgu at 2:38 PM on March 25, 2008


    Burhanistan said: "It's a male."

    Dang. I was certain that it was a woman doing that affected cutesy thing. Is this guy doing the jocular-locker-room thing, instead?

    Skorgu said: "Honest question: has anyone ever had a genuinely positive interaction with an HR person/department? Not tolerable or acceptable mind you, good."

    I never have. In my experience they're all either toeing the company line in a bullshitty, can't-talk-straight, smiley-lying way, or they're so tied up in What The Company Handbook Says that you can hardly get a conversation in with them, because there's zero room in their worldview for anything that doesn't have a corresponding page number, section heading and subheading, and line number.
    posted by pineapple at 2:47 PM on March 25, 2008


    pineapple, no, it's more kind of like the SNL copier guy. The problem with HR is they're only in it for legal coverage, as you say. So, the only reason they presume to help you is to make sure all legal bases are covered.
    posted by Burhanistan at 2:50 PM on March 25, 2008


    Honest question: has anyone ever had a genuinely positive interaction with an HR person/department? Not tolerable or acceptable mind you, good.

    A place I worked a while back got rid of the one HR manager less-than-affectionately known as "The Dragon Lady" for one we called Smitty. She was young, pretty, and a crazy-ass drunk. When you were having a bad day, she would call you into her office, put her feet up and offer you a beer from her mini-fridge.

    When there were office parties, she was the last one dancing on the pool table and the first one hitting on every single guy in sight.

    In so many ways, she was awesome beyond words. What is really weird though, is how, despite all of this, she was also really good at her job; forms were always on time, people were coached professionally, new-hire candidates were always impeccably vetted. It was great.

    But other that her? No.
    posted by quin at 3:04 PM on March 25, 2008


    Honest question: has anyone ever had a genuinely positive interaction with an HR person/department?

    Yup. She was awesome. She helped with forms; she knew the difference between everyday bitching about stuff vs. formal complaint stuff; she never, ever spilled the beans about anything personnel-related; she was way fun at parties. She was wise in her interpretation of company rules (in my experience). And her partner was some kind of insanely rich software guy whose hobbies included driving really fast cars at a local track. So sometimes she would come to work in one of those really fast cars, and she'd give people rides to the BART station.

    At another place I worked, I really liked our HR person - she was also helpful with forms and non-gossipy. But she wasn't great at backing people up if they had management complaints.
    posted by rtha at 3:12 PM on March 25, 2008


    Actually, what makes a somewhat trustworthy HR department is three levels (if your company can sustain that). A director, then a supervisory role, then a generalist role. That way, there's some intra-department accountability.
    posted by Burhanistan at 3:15 PM on March 25, 2008


    The HR thing: I know several people who work in HR who are great, funny, sensible, etc. I haven't dealt with them in a job context though, they're friends of mine. Might be different on the job. In academia I don't have much dealing with HR.

    About assuming it's a woman: depends. I was immediately wondering that, since I could see it going either way.

    Another hting is that when I was a secretary for a music school for a while, I had to process hundreds of student forms. I got to know the students by full name, didn't know them as people at all. I was pleased by some combinations of names, would repeat them to myself in my head, etc. It was a pretty dull job, but I memorized hundreds of full names. Then when the kids would show up, I would sometimes say, "Oh, you're Julie Walker-Smythe! Hello, Julie Walker-Smythe." etc. So is there a possibility it's that kind of thing, where he sees people's full names written out much more often than the average worker does, and for this reason it seems more entertaining to him to use the full name? If so, I'd think you could quietly say, "you know, it bugs me when you do that, would you mind stopping? Just call me Burhan".
    posted by LobsterMitten at 3:21 PM on March 25, 2008


    cortex: Team 1500 is the junior varsity team. Come on, man. Team 2K has special leather jackets with colored sleeves and patches on the arm.

    and yes, gratuitous followup comments.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 3:23 PM on March 25, 2008


    I prefer
    posted by dersins at 3:31 PM on March 25, 2008


    team 1200.
    posted by dersins at 3:31 PM on March 25, 2008


    wuss.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 3:33 PM on March 25, 2008


    Also, there is a Chinese restaurant near my parents' house called "Jade Billows".
    posted by LobsterMitten at 3:34 PM on March 25, 2008


    pineapple: 'Burhanistan Jingleheimer-Schmidt'?

    His name is my name, too!
    Whenever we're at work,
    and the boss is quite the jerk,
    he says, "Burhanistan Jingleheimer-Schmidt!"

    da-da-da-da-da-da-dahh
    posted by not_on_display at 3:58 PM on March 25, 2008


    Lucky it isn't Jade Pillows, what with all the Chinese symbolism around jade and sexuality.
    posted by UbuRoivas at 3:58 PM on March 25, 2008


    In other news, there was a farmer, had a dog, and 'Bingo' was its name. Oh!
    posted by not_on_display at 4:00 PM on March 25, 2008


    It's basically a new one-liner every time we drive by there.
    "No it doesn't"
    "Those aren't billows"
    etc
    posted by LobsterMitten at 4:06 PM on March 25, 2008


    "No more yankee my wankee"? (Wait, I'm getting this confused with the John Hughes thread)
    posted by not_on_display at 4:09 PM on March 25, 2008


    Skorgu: Honest question: has anyone ever had a genuinely positive interaction with an HR person/department? Not tolerable or acceptable mind you, good. Because if not I'm OK with just bundling them all onto the B ark.

    My dad was head HR for the entire US division of a Japanese based construction firm. That being said, I think he is a pretty OK guy, and when I would visit his office as a kid, the interactions appeared to be going quite well. He is now semi retired, and works with and manages all sorts of different groups and people (church fundraisers, etc.) and almost everyone seems to get along with him, so I would have to file him under the "good hr person" category.

    My current HR person is a woman, and knows her job quite well, is willing to call a spade a spade, and can play politics well it seems. Also, she was one of the last people at the company party, and joined us at another bar when we got kicked out of the first one.

    At my job prior to this one, the HR person (also a woman, if we are tracking demographics), didn't know much of anything about the job, it was her first time doing it, and I spent more time waiting for her to figure out how to do something right (like enroll me in healthcare) than actually getting an answer from her.

    Funny story about my dad and his church. There is a new 'vice priest' there (episcopal church, thats what i've always thought of the priest in training person) who appears to be doing it for her own weird reasons that involve her being the one with the best ideas, and changing how everything is done, but never following through on things. So the result is she takes on projects that never get finished, etc. The head priest guy retired in this time, and so a new temporary priest stepped in while the parish searched for their new permanent replacement. Long story short, vice priest is full of bubbly energy, but is making things a mess for everyone. Including scheduling things like "meeting with college students to talk about college" for the highschool kids, without a) finding college students to show up, b) scheduling it the 2nd week of jan. when most of the kids who might show up had gone back to school and c) making it a $5 donation to attend.

    Anyway, if you are still reading this, my dad ended up getting pretty angry with her, and when she went to tell other people how threatening my dad was with her, their responses were simply "wow, you really must be unreasonable to have pissed off Bruce, he's a pretty patient guy".

    So that is my random family story.

    Next up, excerpts from my novella, posted one sentence at a time.
    posted by mrzarquon at 4:28 PM on March 25, 2008


    LobsterMitten: I think the best/worst name I've seen was that time I was in Portland and we saw Hung Far Low. Sadly it was a long weekend and they were closed so we didn't get to eat there. My PFO-originating friends tell me it's great when you feel like Americanized Chinese food.
    posted by heeeraldo at 5:37 PM on March 25, 2008


    heeeraldo: Sadly, Hung Far Low moved out of that location a couple of years ago. The sign has been retained as a landmark, but where it says "building" in the picture you link to it used to say something else. And your (PDX?) friends are not telling you the truth of the matter: the food at Hung Far Low was mostly nasty. The drinks, on the other hand, were cheap, and would fuck you right up. Not smooth, but efficient. It was upstairs, and you'd sometimes have to step over puddles of excrement and hookers lighting crackpipes. Good times.
    posted by mumkin at 7:01 PM on March 25, 2008


    It was always fun to order gibsons at hung far low. That cranky, middle-aged bartender lady hated reaching into the jar of cocktail onions.

    I never had the heart to suggest that she just use a fork.

    But I always tipped well.

    Especially for that dump.
    posted by dersins at 7:06 PM on March 25, 2008


    That beautiful, beautiful dump that I miss....
    posted by dersins at 7:06 PM on March 25, 2008


    I lived in an orthodox monastery that was a literal stone's throw from a strip center that had 3 hooker bars (brothels?) and a convenience store that catered to crackheads. On a weekend night I could look out my window and see a full episode of *Cops*.
    posted by Burhanistan at 7:54 PM on March 25, 2008


    an orthodox monastery that was a literal stone's throw from a strip center that had 3 hooker bars

    Let he who is without sin cast the first &c.
    posted by dersins at 8:18 PM on March 25, 2008


    ^Burhanistan: I lived in an orthodox monastery...
    ...a convenience store that catered to crackheads...
    ...I could look out my window and see a full episode of *Cops*.


    That is the coolest comment packed into the fewest sentences ever.
    posted by not_on_display at 9:06 PM on March 25, 2008


    I wasn't a monk, by the way, just renting a cheap room from them. Though, I was probably more monastic-like than the remaining monks there.
    posted by Burhanistan at 9:14 PM on March 25, 2008


    mumkin: PDX = PFO; one of my friends has a shirt that reads "Portland. Fucking. Oregon." and thus we started calling it PFO. Also, good to know.
    posted by heeeraldo at 10:57 PM on March 25, 2008


    where was this?
    posted by LobsterMitten at 11:53 PM on March 25, 2008


    Maine, I think.
    posted by not_on_display at 5:11 AM on March 26, 2008


    Houston
    posted by Burhanistan at 7:13 AM on March 26, 2008


    Awesomeness points for properly spelling "wracking" though. Nerves that get "racked" are a spelling pet peeve of mine.

    Don't read this comment if you're having a bad day, because it will just make it worse, but the form with rack is a century older than the one with wrack:

    1812 SHELLEY Let. 27 Dec. (1964) I. 347 My removal from your nerve racking & spirit quelling metropolis.

    1909 Daily Chron. 9 Feb. 5/1 Despite his nerve-wracking experience, he had the courage to endeavour to return to search for him.

    And frankly the "rack" metaphor is a lot clearer; cf.:

    1742 POPE New Dunciad 56 Racks and Tortures soon shall.. Break all their nerves, and fritter all their sense.

    How do you "wrack" a nerve?

    In conclusion, yes, HR departments suck. I'm so glad I'll never have to deal with them again.
    posted by languagehat at 9:57 AM on March 26, 2008


    Actually I'm no longer having a bad day, but thanks for the heads-up. :)

    Isn't wrack a formation of "wreck"?

    Or, is it "reeking havoc" that bugged me instead, maybe -- with its similarly problematic W and/or people just not knowing what it is to wreak?
    posted by pineapple at 10:03 AM on March 26, 2008


    So there was just an exchange in another (i.e. lesser) Metatalk thread that lead to SteveInMaine saying this:

    FTFM = Florida Thoroughbred Farm Managers

    Now THERE's a dream job.


    Which made me think of that urban legend / email hoax a while back about The Worst Job Ever, which came in a few varieties but which had the thesis that said job was manually collecting semen from sexually reluctant zoo animals.

    Which probably isn't what SteveInMaine (who I keep trying to call SteveTheMaine, on account of fellow mefite SteveTheRed) had in mind, but it made me think about that whole concept for a few seconds. Which led to me writing this joke:

    Alice: "Hey, I hear you're making a lot of money off endorsements and cash prizes ever since you abandoned your amateur status as a competitive livestock ejaculator."
    Bob: "Yeah, I'm really milking the Pro state."
    posted by cortex (staff) at 10:25 AM on March 26, 2008


    Something wreaks in here. It's rewinning my apetight.
    posted by not_on_display at 10:27 AM on March 26, 2008


    Isn't wrack a formation of "wreck"?

    It's all very complicated (as a teacher of mine used to say). Wrack is from the Old English word wræc 'Retributive punishment; vengeance, revenge; in later use also, hostile action, active enmity, persecution' which became 'Damage, disaster, or injury to a person, state, etc., by reason of force, outrage, or violence; devastation, destruction' and then 'A disastrous change in a state or condition of affairs; wreck, ruin, subversion'; wreck is from a Scandinavian word related to the OEng. one; and as the OED says, "in writers of the 16-17th cent. it is sometimes uncertain which word is intended." Also, wrack and rack have been confused with each other for at least 500 years. So, really, the best thing to do is to tiptoe around the whole mess.

    Or, is it "reeking havoc" that bugged me instead, maybe


    That would certainly bug me.
    posted by languagehat at 11:16 AM on March 26, 2008


    C'mon languagehat. Don't undermine my awesomeness points, I don't get them very often. Although much love for the etymology :D *nerd*

    And haha, in a classic example of being totally masochistic, I arranged for two other phone interviews. But hey, what can I say, I guess I'm desperate for a job. Though if I got any of these I'd have to relocate for the summer, and I'm not sure I'd be willing to do that... it'd cut the already fairly meagre salary in half if I had to rent on top of the rent I'm already paying for the summer portion of my year-long lease. Sigh. Oh student life.

    ALSO. On the subject of silly language things that bug me. Reeking havoc is a good one, but why the hell does half the internet think it's "here here!" and not "hear hear?" ... Or am I really out of my mind? The principle of the phrase is "Hey, I agree with this, so LISTEN TO HIM. HEAR HIM." isn't it? what the hell does "here" have anything to do with it?

    LOGIC people.
    posted by Phire at 11:30 AM on March 26, 2008


    See, because "Pro state" is a play off of "prostate", and so I'm using "milking" in two semantically distinct but related ways depending on how you decide to parse the—OH FORGET IT.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 11:39 AM on March 26, 2008


    I get it! FRENCH CLASS!
    posted by shmegegge at 12:37 PM on March 26, 2008


    "wrack and ruin" is a fine phrase that should be used more.

    "wreaking havoc" ... isn't "havoc" one of those magical words where we just have no idea of its origin?

    "hear hear" - that's what I think it is.

    Also, LH, issues in linguistics aside, it does matter if you know the so-called "proper" spelling/usage etc, purely for pragmatic social reasons. So, it's like etiquette in that it's not passed down from the clouds above, but it still makes a difference whether you get it "right" or not. If you're my student and you're always effing these things up, I'm going to think worse of your writing. etc.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 1:37 PM on March 26, 2008


    Will this be on the final?
    posted by not_on_display at 2:21 PM on March 26, 2008


    LobsterMitten said: "LH, issues in linguistics aside, it does matter if you know the so-called "proper" spelling/usage"

    Psst. LM. Over here. I got your back. It's gonna be a rumble, but I think you've gotta gooda chance as any. You're a good kid, and if you stay quick on your feet an' shake off th' fast blows, you could walk away from this.
    posted by pineapple at 2:27 PM on March 26, 2008


    Also, LH, issues in linguistics aside, it does matter if you know the so-called "proper" spelling/usage etc, purely for pragmatic social reasons.

    Sure, and I've made that point any number of times. But "proper" usage isn't any more inherently right than "proper" clothing. It's just socially favored.

    C'mon languagehat. Don't undermine my awesomeness points, I don't get them very often.

    Don't let anyone try to take your awesomeness points away from you!
    posted by languagehat at 3:18 PM on March 26, 2008


    Sure, and I've made that point any number of times.

    Think of the good of the thread! You can be more hardline than that!
    posted by LobsterMitten at 4:11 PM on March 26, 2008


    1234!

    Way to Go!
    posted by mrzarquon at 4:54 PM on March 26, 2008


    Hee. Though I just realized that should be a semi-colon between 'points' and 'I', not a comma. Fail.

    I just killed the 1234 thing, didn't I? Oh well. I'll be over in scrump's thread if anyone needs me.
    posted by Phire at 5:22 PM on March 26, 2008


    1236… 7? 12?

    Couple three things:

    1) Models are a giant pain in the ass.
    2) Compliance is a giant pain in the ass.
    3) Writing about girls on MySpace is fucking soul-crushing, especially since the salient point about each and every one of them is that she will show the public her labia.
    4) Hercules and Love Affair, despite getting me mocked by my coworkers for listening to "homo music," is totally awesome. It reminds me of Tribe of Zoe… I wonder if there's any of that online…
    posted by klangklangston at 6:06 PM on March 26, 2008


    Hm. Why do I know nothing at all about paulsc? Does he have some sort of backstory, of which everyone but me is aware? What's with his Phil-Cubeta-ish tone last night?
    posted by pineapple at 6:32 AM on March 27, 2008


    Man, I was so thinking Cubeta, in fact, tone-wise. Very odd, I'm not sure what's up or why he's being so weirdly obnoxious. Sure glad I was up at 1 am to see the beginning of that, though. Oof.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 7:00 AM on March 27, 2008


    Very odd, I'm not sure what's up or why he's being so weirdly obnoxious.

    That stuff is actually standard paulsc fare. He sometimes posts good answers in AskMe, but they are just as often conservative, trite and based in anecdote, while savoring of unearned authority. He has frequently derided the mods here, and the community in general, especially for what he seems to believe is a lack of respect for the 'common man,' mostly as personified by paulsc. I think people confuse his long, detailed, googled AskMe answers with being a good guy.
    posted by OmieWise at 7:41 AM on March 27, 2008


    I think you mean "the 'community' in general," OmieWise. paulsc's been scare-quoting the c-word for some reason probably known only to him.
    posted by cgc373 at 8:13 AM on March 27, 2008


    I think the reason he does that is that he's an insufferable blowhard. Always has been. Probably always will be.
    posted by dersins at 8:24 AM on March 27, 2008


    I decided it would be elitist of me to mention that the word he wants is "illegitimus," 'illegitimi' being plural. But yeah, I got the same Cubeta vibe - an odd new tone for him.

    Speaking generally, I don't quite get what makes people hang around any place - web or elsewhere - that they openly dislike. We've got a few of these folks here. There's certainly no problem with people who find value in the site bringing up concerns and critiques, but hanging around harping on how terrible the place is sort of undermines the person's own point. What are they getting out of it? It smacks of the old -

    "The food at this place is terrible!"

    "Yes -- and such small portions!""
    posted by Miko at 8:38 AM on March 27, 2008 [1 favorite]


    I keep forgetting I'm here voluntarily!
    posted by not_on_display at 8:54 AM on March 27, 2008


    I like paulsc a lot. I haven't read last night's contribution, but I like his contributions more often than not, which isn't a ratio that applies to most posters, even the ones I like. He does have experience and background that other people on metafilter don't have. When he was gone I missed his input.
    posted by small_ruminant at 9:27 AM on March 27, 2008


    I have never understood his a ppeal for people like you, s_m. I think a lot of people do have personal experiences like his (his family situation, his regional cultural knowledge) but speak in a less authoritative tone. And having had many exchanges with him, I know that he has a habit of pretending to command more knowledge than he actually has, and then hastily researching and presenting his additional info without cite.
    posted by Miko at 9:32 AM on March 27, 2008


    er, make that, s_r.
    posted by Miko at 9:33 AM on March 27, 2008


    I have a theory that MetaMan is Cubeta getting back at us.
    posted by dw at 10:00 AM on March 27, 2008 [1 favorite]


    people like you, s_m
    er, make that, s_r.
    ...paging Dr. Freud!
    posted by heeeraldo at 10:04 AM on March 27, 2008


    Freudian slip showing, again...?
    posted by Miko at 10:34 AM on March 27, 2008


    I will have to disagree with you there, Miko. If there are a lot of people of his background, age group, and ... je ne sais quoi (heh)- joie de vivre maybe? they haven't bothered to write as expansively and entertainingly as paulsc has. Metafilter discussion seems very echo chambery and anemic when there aren't enough participants who've lived according to different value systems. I may like paulsc because his seem similar to the one I was raised with. I've very deliberately chosen to live a safe and milquetoast life, but hearing from people who don't toe the party line as much as I make myself do is a breath of fresh air. Which is not to say paulsc can't get all self-righteous, blowhard-y, and generally behave like an asshole, but then most of my favorite posters do.

    Also, I like his stories. Not too many story tellers around here, probably because stories so often get deleted as noise. Which, imo, is a terrible loss to the site.
    posted by small_ruminant at 10:35 AM on March 27, 2008


    What gives you the impression that stories are "often deleted as noise," small_ruminant? I haven't noticed anything of the kind.
    posted by cgc373 at 10:52 AM on March 27, 2008


    Well, a couple of mine have been, but maybe they just sucked.
    posted by small_ruminant at 11:05 AM on March 27, 2008


    Really, the problem is stories tossed into askme threads. Stories in the blue and the grey, not so much an issue.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 11:28 AM on March 27, 2008


    *wakes up, peels face from sticky booth table, looks around, still mostly drunk*

    Is it last call?? I wanna go home.
    posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 1:06 PM on March 27, 2008


    Well, you don't have to go home. You can stay here, you know.
    posted by shmegegge at 1:16 PM on March 27, 2008


    Hey, anyone want to adopt a REALLY FUCKING FAT BIG-BONED FUCKING CAT? At almost 26 pounds, it's basically 2 medium-large cats in a single package!

    No?

    Then how about one of these special needs cats?
    posted by dersins at 2:59 PM on March 27, 2008


    in other, wholly unrelated news, I was pretty surprised right now while reading this. At first I thought the game was called "The Dollmaster," and I thought "Oh Japan, you scallywag! Leave it to you guys to invent a creepy doll s&m game!" Then I realized it was called The idolmaster and was vaguely disappointed. Then I realized that The idolmaster will probably be just as creepy! Yay!
    posted by shmegegge at 3:11 PM on March 27, 2008


    Man, the fat cat costs $20 more than the cats that have issues.
    posted by Burhanistan at 3:11 PM on March 27, 2008


    The fat cat is called Hamhock! Yes please.
    And one of the issues cats' issues is "may be afraid of loud noises". Is it some kind of euphemism?
    posted by LobsterMitten at 3:34 PM on March 27, 2008


    So I just spent pretty much the whole last workweek orchestrating a search through months of old presumably-already-scanned documents for a missing form that a client team needed. We've manually reshuffled and sorted something like I'd say 30-40,000 sheets of paper.

    I just found it, though. It was already on the system. With the first and last names inverted, but retrievable for all that by the unique system ID that is known to the client team. It has been there for months. They never searched for it.

    I am become death, destroyer of cubicles.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 3:39 PM on March 27, 2008


    Did they apologize abjectly, and did they pay you handsomely for your time?

    If no, you could always retitle the form "Hamhock" and tell them they can seek it but you won't tell them the unique ID.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 3:43 PM on March 27, 2008


    Man, clients are fucking idiots. Doesn't matter WHAT the industry is.

    That said, I'll bet the next time a client team tells you they can't find something on the system, you'll take a different approach. Something like "Really? Let me check the system to verify..." rather than "Really? Let me orchestrate a manual search through tens of thousands of documents to find it."

    Not that you should have done the former this time. It's perfectly reasonable to assume that when someone tells you they can't find something, that means they've actually, y'know, looked for it.

    posted by dersins at 4:05 PM on March 27, 2008


    No, it's totally on me for not sanity-checking them on this one. The presentation suggested that they had, in fact, search thoroughly, and these clients are jerks so I trusted 'em on that. And the major orchestration is in part a meta-issue, so this found a week ago wouldn't have prevented it, probably, but as one of the driving stressors we could all have done without it, etc.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 4:13 PM on March 27, 2008


    cortex- im right there with you. We just found out some nasty permissions issues decide to show up if you have a user in more than 16 groups in active directory, os x clients through up on themselves is kerberos is involved, since it can't parse more than 16 groups per user. Which is really annoying when your IT team decides they want individual AD groups, for each application access you might need as a remote user (so you are automatically in 16 groups if you want to use citrix, including 4 groups which are just mispellings of remote user). So the group we actually use for our department is bumped off the list. Blargh.
    posted by mrzarquon at 4:48 PM on March 27, 2008


    Goddammit, I ordered another drink a million years ago. Where's my drink? Goddammit?
    posted by languagehat at 5:13 PM on March 27, 2008


    AREN'T jerks. These client's are nice. Dammit.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 5:26 PM on March 27, 2008


    Clients. Fuck it.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 5:26 PM on March 27, 2008


    I'd really rather NOT fuck your clients, cortex. Given that it appears as though they experience some difficulty differentiating their own asses from a hole in the ground, I shudder to think what they might mistake for my anatomy.
    posted by dersins at 5:30 PM on March 27, 2008


    So clients are secretly octop[i|uses]? No wonder...
    posted by Skorgu at 6:05 PM on March 27, 2008


    I have spent the last couple of weeks whiplashing between colleagues saying "we really don't think it's time to embrace the web because it's not that important to us and it's all spam and pedophiles anyway" and colleagues saying "we must group hug the web now now now can you get us on the web two years ago???"

    Luckily, they're not the same people, but man, the constant extremes are just about making me crack.
    posted by dw at 6:30 PM on March 27, 2008


    Sae the movie "Fido". Pretty cute.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 8:23 PM on March 27, 2008


    Alsae Ae'm Scaettish.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 8:24 PM on March 27, 2008 [1 favorite]


    I scraped off a thick layer of lint off the dryer filter the other day after drying some bathroom rugs. The first thing I thought of when I looked at the fluffy ball in my hand was "that should be deep fried in batter".
    posted by Burhanistan at 8:54 PM on March 27, 2008


    Make that dipped in batter and then deep fried.
    posted by Burhanistan at 8:54 PM on March 27, 2008


    There used to be a fry shack on the island of Cuttyhunk which basically just contained a deep fryer, and you could bring whatever you wanted and they'd deep fry it for you.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 10:31 PM on March 27, 2008


    The island of Cuttyhunk?!??

    That sounds like a poorly-imagined setting for a piece of chick-lit romance.
    posted by UbuRoivas at 11:12 PM on March 27, 2008


    I think I'd enjoy a nice hunk of deep-fried cutty.
    posted by dersins at 11:14 PM on March 27, 2008


    Better than that, it's near Gay Head. Sweah to God.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 11:27 PM on March 27, 2008


    There used to be this minuscule soba shop in Tokyo near where I lived that I would frequent, and most times I went there, I'd get the soba with tempura-fried squid.

    I wonder if that place is still there.
    posted by adamrice at 7:15 AM on March 28, 2008


    There's a neighborhood in my city called "Gaywood". Seriously. Gaywood.
    posted by Burhanistan at 8:13 AM on March 28, 2008


    Is it me or does Beef Unit Rd run right through first base? At least Mount Sac way is more gentlemanly, despite being excited to see you.
    posted by danOstuporStar at 8:28 AM on March 28, 2008


    There's a neighborhood in my city called "Gaywood". Seriously. Gaywood.

    And I note from the linked map that Gaywood Dr. is crossed by Tosca Lane.

    Just an observation. [NOT OPERA-IST]
    posted by languagehat at 9:10 AM on March 28, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Ah, scroll south for more Opera related streets. If they ever develop some of the adjacent park land, they can name the streets after Weber musicals or something.
    posted by Burhanistan at 9:15 AM on March 28, 2008


    We used to mercilessly tease the kids from Gaylord in our competitive theater meets.

    Only now do I appreciate the irony.
    posted by klangklangston at 12:04 PM on March 28, 2008 [2 favorites]


    SAN DIMAS HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL RULES
    posted by cortex (staff) at 1:08 PM on March 28, 2008


    It's snowing.

    In seattle.

    In spring (almost april)

    W.T.F.
    posted by mrzarquon at 1:35 PM on March 28, 2008


    Didn't realize you guys had it too. Down here in Portland it stopped snowing a couple of hours ago. The rain washed it all away, making it seem like a bizarre waking dream.
    posted by mumkin at 1:39 PM on March 28, 2008


    Down here in Portland it stopped snowing a couple of hours ago.

    I was so hoping for a snowday-- we didn't get a single one this winter-- but, alas, 'twas not to be, for here I am at work.
    posted by dersins at 1:52 PM on March 28, 2008


    By the way, did survivorman / rinkjustice / dropkick / raydexter / JaySunSee / PoopyDoop / TinkleBerry / cameron.case set some sort of record for sockpuppet malfeasance? And am I missing any?
    posted by dersins at 1:58 PM on March 28, 2008


    There's a neighborhood in my city called "Gaywood". Seriously. Gaywood.

    The bowling alley just outside my hometown in Idaho was at a crossroads named the Gay-Way Junction and was hence named Gay-Way Bowl. I learned to bowl at the Gay-Way Bowl.

    Johnny Carson once mentioned the place on the Tonight Show and they sent him Christmas cards every year thereafter.
    posted by y2karl at 2:02 PM on March 28, 2008


    He/they/it may have set a genuine record as the malfeasiest, yeah. Part of the problem is the early pattern of behavior got treated with a degree of compassion that wasn't really met on the return with any kind of change in behavior.

    And there's the claim that the various accounts related to more than one person—but those various people were pretty attentive to one another's projects, to the degree that Alice went so far as to list Bob's Projects-posted website (for which Charlie voted) as her website in her profile. And all the while, several of them taking turns linking to the same goddam self-help website whenever an AskMe question seemed somehow related, despite past requests to not.

    I give a lot of shit the benefit of the doubt around here, but, you know, give me a fucking break.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 2:12 PM on March 28, 2008


    You got to remember, he is a professional SEO goober. And an angry mormon about it also. Have you round filed his IP address / paypal address / credit card numbers yet?

    If he is a web designer, he probably has some sort of highspeed internet with dedicated IPs.

    (Maybe he was just using his extended family and wives to do all the SEOing for him)
    posted by mrzarquon at 2:21 PM on March 28, 2008


    Seven more comments until 1300!

    y2karl: The bowling alley just outside my hometown in Idaho was at a crossroads named the Gay-Way Junction and was hence named Gay-Way Bowl. I learned to bowl at the Gay-Way Bowl

    I don't know if that is something you should be proud or ashamed of sharing. I guess it depends on how well you bowl. We may find out tomorrow.
    posted by mrzarquon at 3:11 PM on March 28, 2008


    Gaywood Dr. is crossed by Tosca Lane.

    I have a friend who used to live in Chicago, at the intersection of George and Mildred.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 3:37 PM on March 28, 2008


    Also, looking at that survivorman thread, wow.
    The *gritted teeth* of this comment:
    This is a user's project and the best place to give feedback is on the projects page itself.
    posted by jessamyn

    just kills me.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 3:40 PM on March 28, 2008


    Man, look at me being a grumpy asshole for no apparent reason six years ago. Take that 2002 me!
    posted by cortex (staff) at 3:49 PM on March 28, 2008


    He could have at least used all those accounts for something useful, like posing as a woman in order to add credence to crypto-right wing trolling.
    posted by klangklangston at 3:49 PM on March 28, 2008


    Oh, cortex, all that shows is that we all have the potential to someday be mods, no matter how much of a wheedling weenie we have been.
    posted by klangklangston at 3:50 PM on March 28, 2008


    I'm just mad that I missed that Survivorman thread. It would have been the perfect place to offtopicly post the misheard lyric that has been stuck firmly in my head for the past couple of months:

    Cowboy Jesus loves you!

    posted by quin at 3:51 PM on March 28, 2008


    Oh, I might
    posted by klangklangston at 3:51 PM on March 28, 2008


    heh

    malfeasiest

    heehee

    posted by small_ruminant at 3:51 PM on March 28, 2008 [1 favorite]


    as well delmoi this to 1300.

    on preview CURSES!
    posted by klangklangston at 3:52 PM on March 28, 2008


    Huh. The first couple of socks are fairly new though. Y'think they would've learned to stay the fuck away from MeFi after the first bannination.

    (Apologies for the swearing. Up since 7:30 etc. Fucking politics lecture. Fucking interviews.)

    BUT YES. The weather here is getting nicer. it was hovering at about 0-2 degrees Celsius today. Windy though. (Fucking Lake Ontario).

    Okay okay, I'll go away now.
    posted by Phire at 3:53 PM on March 28, 2008


    I suppose we could try and summon the power of blogdom to meme this guy a new asshole.

    Goddammit, I am going to build a time machine and go back to April 13, 2004 and I am going to slap myself so effin' hard. Ugh.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 4:02 PM on March 28, 2008


    on preview CURSES

    Heh.
    posted by dersins at 4:08 PM on March 28, 2008


    Klangklangston doesn't know
    posted by dersins at 4:08 PM on March 28, 2008


    that you have to open multiple tabs
    posted by dersins at 4:09 PM on March 28, 2008


    to do that.
    posted by dersins at 4:09 PM on March 28, 2008


    Phire, it is always windy in K-town; the best you can hope for is a day with lighter winds. (used to live there)
    posted by LobsterMitten at 4:35 PM on March 28, 2008


    Goddammit, I am going to build a time machine and go back to April 13, 2004 and I am going to slap myself so effin' hard. Ugh.

    Does it count as the singularity if the social trends move too quickly to keep up with?
    posted by shmegegge at 8:55 PM on March 28, 2008


    I overheard someone getting talked into a multilevel marketing scam involving some kind of water treatment device, today at the coffeeshop. Any ideas about the best way to handle that?
    posted by LobsterMitten at 1:33 PM on March 29, 2008


    DAMN JESSAMYN AND HER "THOU SHALT NOT TAKE THINGS FROM OTHER PARTS OF THE SITE AND POST THEM AS ASKMES"!!!
    posted by UbuRoivas at 2:03 PM on March 29, 2008


    Any ideas about the best way to handle that?

    Machetes. Which is the best answer for anytime the question of "best way to handle that?" comes up.
    posted by Burhanistan at 3:23 PM on March 29, 2008


    Counterexample:
    "I need to design a handle for a delicate china teacup. So, delicate china teacup: what's the best way to handle that?"
    posted by LobsterMitten at 4:10 PM on March 29, 2008


    Delicate machetes.
    posted by Burhanistan at 4:20 PM on March 29, 2008


    (they make for an exquisite corpse)
    posted by UbuRoivas at 4:55 PM on March 29, 2008


    ((or exquisite cups, as the case may be))
    posted by UbuRoivas at 4:56 PM on March 29, 2008


    (((or exquisitely chopped-up corpses filling exquisite teacups)))
    posted by Burhanistan at 5:03 PM on March 29, 2008


    Shall I be mother?
    posted by The corpse in the library at 8:11 PM on March 29, 2008


    I just want to say that I love the idea that there are Completist Readers at MeFi, and that because I spent the afternoon at the Biltmore House, looking at rich dead white people's old stuff, that in my head it's The Compleat Reader.
    posted by pineapple at 9:17 PM on March 29, 2008


    20 December, 1983, New York:

    I am reading a book on Kafka. It is a library book, and someone has marked a passage in the margin with a long, wavering line. I pay special attention without finding it particularly rewarding. As I turn the page the line moves. It is a long, dark hair.

    --Alan Bennett, Writing Home: Diaries 1980-1990
    posted by OmieWise at 3:30 AM on March 30, 2008


    21 December, 1983, New York:

    I have returned the book, but the hair must have fallen out; I found it nestled in the margin of an Ionesco play, The Leader. I had just started reading when I found the following exchange marked as significant:
    YOUNG LOVER. Forgive me, Madame, or should I say Mademoiselle?

    GIRL-FRIEND. I beg your pardon, I'm afraid I don't happen to know you!
    I tried to understand the importance of this until I jostled the book slightly and the hair wriggled off the page and onto the desk. I think it is mocking me.
    posted by languagehat at 6:53 AM on March 30, 2008


    22 December, 1983, New York:

    The hair is everywhere. I cannot escape it. It follows me throughout the suite of rooms I am occupying; it even (horror!) nestles next to me in bed. I must return to London at once. I came to New York to escape the hopelessness of English life, but I see now the abyss is everywhere. At least in Camden Town I have the BBC.
    posted by languagehat at 6:58 AM on March 30, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Zee zee zee zum zum
    posted by Burhanistan at 7:24 PM on March 30, 2008


    sure, your guy can dance, but I think my guy can take him.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 12:03 AM on March 31, 2008


    Our HR guy rocks.

    Now the biz dev people. On my way to the fire escape to smoke a cigarette, I saw this on 8" letters on the v.p.'s whiteboard "TO DO: Leverage our synergies".

    What is the best way to handle these guys?
    posted by Dr. Curare at 12:41 AM on March 31, 2008


    um, pull their tongues out of their cheeks?
    posted by UbuRoivas at 5:20 AM on March 31, 2008


    Cross out "TO DO:" and replace it with "DELIVERABLES:". What kind of self-respecting leveraged synergists uses plain to-do lists? Amateurs.
    posted by Burhanistan at 6:21 AM on March 31, 2008


    Also, I can't believe you're comparing Midnight Oil to Wire.
    posted by Burhanistan at 6:28 AM on March 31, 2008


    If I had five dollars to spare I would right now be registering "The Kafka Hair of Alan Bennet" as a sock-puppet. I would use it to haunt languagehat through any and all book related threads he happened to post in:

    languagehat: "The Dalkey Archive" is actually a poorly executed and startlingly sentimental rehashing of episodes from O'Briens masterpiece "The Third Policeman" which, tragically, was never published during his lifetime.

    The Kafka Hair of Alan Bennet: slips slowly and deliberately down the screen, playfully encircling the word "sentimental".

    languagehat: Why, The Kafka Hair of Alan Bennet? WHY DO YOU TORMENT ME SO!
    posted by thatwhichfalls at 6:30 AM on March 31, 2008


    If I were going to start some sort of bad-programming-fisking type blog (maybe a competitor of The Daily WTF, that sort of thing) I would totally name it TO DON'T.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 7:14 AM on March 31, 2008 [2 favorites]


    What does "leverage our synergies" mean? Is this the new baffle-em-with-our-bullshit corpspeak?
    I googled it and there are consultants standing by waiting to leverage our synergies.

    How much should this cost? Is there a timeframe where we can expect our synergies to be leveraged by?
    posted by readery at 7:46 AM on March 31, 2008


    readery said: "What does "leverage our synergies" mean? Is this the new baffle-em-with-our-bullshit corpspeak? I googled it and there are consultants standing by waiting to leverage our synergies."

    I am embarrassed to report that I have used this phrase non-ironically in the last three months, in two different scenarios. So, in case you're asking for real: my org is trying to find ways to derive more cost benefit from letting two of our business units with similar production and marketing methods work together -- despite it seeming on the outside like that would be a non-starter since the units have two totally different products and audiences. I have also used this when discussing possible strategic partnerships with other businesses -- when analyzing the places where our respective business models can complement and support each other.

    Believe me, I wish there were any other word to use besides synergy. I feel like a pompous twit when I say it. I feel like I'm in the IBM commercial "Buzzword Bingo."

    Also, it makes me want to yell, "Showtime, Synergy!" ...and then turn from Jerrica into Jem and sing "Jem, is truly outrageous, truly truly truly outrageous (whooooa!)... Jem is my name! No one else is the same!"
    posted by pineapple at 8:18 AM on March 31, 2008


    Here you go, for those of you who thought "WTF" at that last bit. Jem was the original "Hannah Montana."
    posted by pineapple at 8:22 AM on March 31, 2008


    And what treatment do you offer for we poor souls who not only immediately recognized but started to sing the theme?
    posted by Skorgu at 8:31 AM on March 31, 2008


    What was truly outrageous about that show was how much better the Misfits were than the the freakin' Holograms. I mean, c'mon. It was no contest.
    posted by dersins at 8:37 AM on March 31, 2008


    They knew that, though. They tell you in the opening titles:

    We are the Misfits
    Our songs are better


    I felt sorry for Jerrica's boyfriend (Rizzo? Rico?) - thinking he was pseudo-cheating by liking Jem when they were THE SAME PERSON. Bitch.
    posted by goo at 8:46 AM on March 31, 2008


    You know what I find annoying about buzzwords?

    I can sit in a meeting and say, "You need to ideate your synergies and leverage your passions in order to redefine the paradigm," and everyone will nod their heads in agreement.

    But if I say, "You need to build a website that reflects your mission and goals," they look confused and say I'm talking techie talk.

    I'm not kidding. I severely dumbed down a e-mail recently about a project we need to do ("You would like a search engine on this application. We can do that, but it will take 40 developer hours to complete") and all I got from people was how "techie" it was. Some days I wonder if I should start using hand puppets.
    posted by dw at 8:59 AM on March 31, 2008


    And what treatment do you offer for we poor souls who not only immediately recognized but started to sing the theme?

    And who still have it stuck in their heads forty minutes later. And probably will for the rest of the day. And who as much as they love Freezepop really wish that said band hadn't done a cover of said song. And who, growing up in the period where the cartoon in question was popular, insisted for a while on retaining the vestigial presence of their bio-father's last name as an interstitial between their middle name and their pragmatic Mom-got-remarried last name, not out of any particular loyalty to the retained surname itself so much as to add a crucially disruptive "D" to the otherwise uncomfortably cartoon-glam-rockish sequence created by virtue of their middle name being Edward.

    I even have a quilt/blanket somewhere that my mom made for me when I was like seven years old, that features a rocket ship and the four-character sequence "J E D M" running vertically down it, and that D is in there because we had words on the subject.

    Truly outrageous MY ASS.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 9:00 AM on March 31, 2008


    goo said: "I felt sorry for Jerrica's boyfriend (Rizzo? Rico?) - thinking he was pseudo-cheating by liking Jem when they were THE SAME PERSON. Bitch."

    Rio.

    Skorgu said: "And what treatment do you offer for we poor souls who not only immediately recognized but started to sing the theme?"

    Uh, a makeout session?
    posted by pineapple at 9:07 AM on March 31, 2008


    Thanks Pineapple - I am a CPA (but haven't worked in the corporate world for a while)so it actually may come up sometime. Now I can nod knowingly, and offer some cost/benefit analysis poop.
    posted by readery at 9:27 AM on March 31, 2008


    Whoa. Y'all are still here!

    Been in no-wifi-anywhere-land for the last four days, and diving back into the green and blue feels overwhelming. Did I miss anything really good?

    We were down in Anza Borrego Desert State Park, about two hours east of San Diego, for a birding trip. Made a day trip to the Salton Sea, and made a late-in-the-day brief stop at Salvation Mountain out by Slab City. Added 18 new-to-me birds to my list, the coolest of which by far was the roadrunner.

    It's a different planet down there.
    posted by rtha at 10:38 AM on March 31, 2008


    I almost forgot the coolest thing we saw: the mud volcanoes northwest of Calapatria. Handy googlemaps view (the things in the field in the upper right corner of Davis and Schrimpf). They're about 8 feet tall, at most, and make a weird bubbling noise. Weird and beautiful.
    posted by rtha at 11:06 AM on March 31, 2008


    cortex, that story is adorable and I so remember being that age.

    I felt sorry for Jerrica's boyfriend (Rizzo? Rico?) - thinking he was pseudo-cheating by liking Jem when they were THE SAME PERSON. Bitch.

    Totally!
    A philosopher friend of mine once got into a real fight with her philosopher husband, because she asked him "If I were replaced by an exact qualitative duplicate, would you love her as much?" and he said, with thoughtless honesty "yes".
    posted by LobsterMitten at 11:44 AM on March 31, 2008


    Wait-- how would he even notice? Also, that was a dumb thing for him to say.
    posted by dersins at 12:42 PM on March 31, 2008


    how would he even notice

    Exactly.
    It would be impossible to notice, because anything that's detectable by human senses would be covered under "qualitative" and would be duplicated.
    Her getting annoyed was under the rationale of "you should love me for me", where the second "me" points to some non-qualitative features that make her her. (I enjoy this as an example of the very precise fights philosopher couples can have.)
    posted by LobsterMitten at 12:53 PM on March 31, 2008


    IANA philosopher, but it seems to me that there is one condition which might make the partner love the replaced partner less, and that would be if he knew there had been a switch.

    Even if the qualitative differences were truly 0, the knowledge of the replacement could produce an uncertainty. The additional alertness to and sensitivity to behavior because of the the possibility of perceivable differences could create a weird feedback loop in which both people acted strange - suspicious and hyperattentive for the unchanged partner, defensive and exasperated for the other.
    posted by Miko at 1:25 PM on March 31, 2008


    Followup question for the philosopher husband: suppose the wife was replaced by two qualitative clones...
    posted by cortex (staff) at 1:31 PM on March 31, 2008


    If he were replaced by an exact qualitative duplicate, would he love her as much?
    posted by matthewr at 3:07 PM on March 31, 2008


    I enjoy this as an example of the very precise fights philosopher couples can have.

    And I like it as an example of how philosphers can have their heads so far in the clouds as to not be capable of simple, practical interaction.

    His response should have been "But what if I were replaced by an exact qualitative duplicate of you, and you with an exact qualitative duplicate of me?"

    (to which her only possible response could be "D'aw! That's such a beautiful thought! [gush crush swoon sex]")
    posted by UbuRoivas at 4:27 PM on March 31, 2008


    broken?
    posted by Burhanistan at 4:57 PM on March 31, 2008


    Weird, there it goes now. I tried to post a silly comment three times but just reloaded.

    So here: Delicate machetes.
    posted by Burhanistan at 4:58 PM on March 31, 2008


    PEBKAC
    posted by cortex (staff) at 5:30 PM on March 31, 2008


    IPECAC
    posted by dersins at 5:37 PM on March 31, 2008


    WYTAW?
    posted by UbuRoivas at 6:15 PM on March 31, 2008


    Your ouija board is broken!
    posted by not_on_display at 6:39 PM on March 31, 2008


    Hey, one more MeTa comment from Ubu, and that'll be 1000! And jessamyn hit 5000 today, too! What a banner day!
    posted by not_on_display at 6:41 PM on March 31, 2008


    My ouija board is broken?

    What you talking about, Willis?
    posted by UbuRoivas at 7:04 PM on March 31, 2008


    wait, i used my 1000th comment referencing Diffrent Strokes, instead of Eardrum Buzz?!??
    posted by UbuRoivas at 7:50 PM on March 31, 2008


    Zee zee zee, zum zum. (buzz buzz). Buzz buzz, buzzbuzz in the eardrum.

    (the comment was in reference to an acronym I didn't understand. Whenever I see one, I think, "damn ouija board is busted again." That's what's goin dowwwwwn, mister drummond.)

    [not dana plato ist]
    posted by not_on_display at 7:57 PM on March 31, 2008


    Miko - you get full marks.

    So, the Eardrum Buzz... what the hey is it? I don't know this Wire band. Were they huge in some non-US nation circa 1991? Or were they only huge among the cognoscenti? Or were they huge in the US and I somehow have never heard of them.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 7:59 PM on March 31, 2008


    And congratulations on the 1000 mark. I only hope that one day I, too, can say, "What are those green things outside, are they trees? Oh, it looks so inviting! I'll click on the 'trees' after I respond to [username]'s comment!"

    [oh, wait, I did say that today.]

    posted by not_on_display at 8:02 PM on March 31, 2008


    Wire was never huge, but made some great music. The Chairs Missing album is one of the hallmarks of what would later be called the "post-punk" movement.. at least I think (I'm still not sure what "post punk" is). Anyway, that album is like if Syd Barrett had remained with Pink Floyd in the 80's, in 1978.
    posted by not_on_display at 8:04 PM on March 31, 2008


    What if his wife was replaced by a robot made for lovin'? I mean, he might love her a little less, but probably more often.
    posted by klangklangston at 8:05 PM on March 31, 2008


    i am fully aware of the trees, and longing for them.

    unfortunately, i am required to be on the factory floor all day.

    shame, it's absolutely *perfect* outside today. currently 24 celsius, light coolish breeze, ocean still warm enough for a surf *sigh*

    and Wire were - and remain - huge among the cognoscenti.
    posted by UbuRoivas at 8:51 PM on March 31, 2008


    I felt sorry for Jerrica's boyfriend (Rizzo? Rico?) - thinking he was pseudo-cheating by liking Jem when they were THE SAME PERSON. Bitch.

    Yeh, I felt the same way about Kate Bush's boyfriend, vis-a-vis Babooshka.
    posted by UbuRoivas at 9:00 PM on March 31, 2008


    Psst! UbuRoivas - Strange reaction (for Wire) to 12XU, my Metafilter number neighbour.
    posted by tellurian at 9:16 PM on March 31, 2008


    The question reminds me of Hal Jordan's recurring narrative problem: Would you still love me if there were another me with superpowers and who wasn't a douchebag?
    posted by klangklangston at 9:37 PM on March 31, 2008


    psst, tellurian: Megas is mentioned in the song "Iceland" by The Fall which appeared on Hex Enduction Hour (1982). The song was recorded in Hljóðriti studio in Iceland in 1981. In a Melody Maker article about The Fall's stay in Iceland called "The Decline and Fall in Iceland" (published September 26th 1981) is this written about Megas: "Our hosts play us tapes of a man with a cracked voice and a Dylanish air and describe him as “the father of Icelandic rock’n’roll”. And they tell us the story of Megas, who ridiculed the sacred Sagas of the land, wrote scathing, surreal lyrics, got heavily into booze and drugs, was barred from radio and shunned by society. In 1979 he released a double album called “Plans For Suicide” announced his retirement, and hasn’t performed in public since he’s now a dock worker. Mark Smith is entranced by the story, and rivetted by the music., The following day Megas, a pale, gaunt figure, turns up at The Fall’s concert at the Austurboejarbio and shakes him by the hand. Mark will return to England clutching a parcel of Megas records under his arm."
    posted by UbuRoivas at 9:54 PM on March 31, 2008


    I ditch MeFi for four days to work on Marketing and this thread's only got 66 posts?

    Weak, people, weak. We'll never hit 1500 by April 10.
    posted by Phire at 2:36 AM on April 1, 2008


    **66 new posts. Though I suppose it's 68, now. Teehee.
    posted by Phire at 2:37 AM on April 1, 2008


    It's going on 4 am, I have a sore throat and can't sleep and am basically just doing some mefi admin gruntwork to pass the time, but it's all okay because a crappy Google Time post that I just deleted was flagged by Your Time Machine Sucks.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 3:51 AM on April 1, 2008


    What's a "Google Time" post entail? (immediately thought "Hammer Time")
    posted by not_on_display at 4:29 AM on April 1, 2008


    stop!
    posted by cortex (staff) at 4:33 AM on April 1, 2008


    Wire were - and remain - huge among the cognoscenti.

    Damn right. I still remember how exciting it was to hear Wire for the first time (I think I'd read Christgau rave about them and ran out to get the record, and yes, once upon a time Robert Christgau was actually relevant and useful).

    What's a "Google Time" post entail?

    $20SAIT.
    posted by languagehat at 5:58 AM on April 1, 2008 [1 favorite]


    And I just came across this one the other day. I didn't know they ever played US television. Strange to see Chrissy from Three's Company trying to keep up with Bruce Gilbert in the quick meet & greet after they play.
    posted by Burhanistan at 6:05 AM on April 1, 2008


    Waiting for a call with my boss that's been twice postponed. I think he knows that I want to talk about bad news. He doesn't like bad news at all. I fantasize that one day he will post an AskMe: "Dear MetaFilter, I have this totally awesome employee but she's always giving me bad news. Do I give her a raise, a promotion, or both?"
    posted by pineapple at 9:18 AM on April 1, 2008


    You better hope he doesn't; you know what the answers will be.
    "DTMFA"
    posted by LobsterMitten at 2:20 PM on April 1, 2008


    Pineapple, your boss has been notified of your backtagging superstar status. That surely will get you a rise.
    posted by Dr. Curare at 10:32 PM on April 1, 2008


    Or we can give pineapple a rise right now.
    posted by dw at 7:41 AM on April 2, 2008


    brilliant! Thanks for the link, dw. That brought back 70's-childhood memories long forgotten.

    Dr. Curare said: "Pineapple, your boss has been notified of your backtagging superstar status. That surely will get you a rise."

    Now I just have to convince him that, in MetaFilterLand, tagging a WHOLE 32 POSTS really does make me a superstar.
    posted by pineapple at 8:21 AM on April 2, 2008


    brilliant! Thanks for the link, dw. That brought back 70's-childhood memories long forgotten.

    Remember when instrumentals were a big thing? "Rise?" "Feels So Good?" "Music Box Dancer?" "Chariots of Fire?"

    The last instrumental to reach #1 on the US Hot 100 was the theme from Miami Vice in 1985. 23 years ago now. No instrumental has cracked the US top 10 singles chart this decade.
    posted by dw at 11:05 AM on April 2, 2008


    "Hooked on Classical?"
    "Watermelon Man?"
    posted by Miko at 11:12 AM on April 2, 2008


    "Hooked on Classical?"

    Top 5 in '81, IIRC.

    "Watermelon Man?"

    I never knew until just now that Herbie Hancock wrote it.

    I wonder if what killed instrumentals as hits was smooth jazz. "Songbird" by Kenny G was a #4 hit in 1987. After that, he's the only artist to have a top 10 instrumental hit for the next 12 years.

    It could also be that yacht rock became the Boomers' easy listening, and Michael McDonald their Bert Kaempfert.
    posted by dw at 11:21 AM on April 2, 2008


    I didn't know it was a Herbie Hancock song either, until I heard this recent NPR special on him. It's a good program.
    posted by Miko at 11:52 AM on April 2, 2008


    "yacht rock" ftw.

    I wonder if the death of instrumentals as singles is due to the increase in research-driven programming on radio stations. If the research shows that 20% of people will switch stations during an instrumental they don't already know, it just won't get played at all. (?)
    posted by LobsterMitten at 12:15 PM on April 2, 2008


    Litterbugs
    posted by Burhanistan at 12:21 PM on April 2, 2008


    LobsterMitten said: ""yacht rock" ftw."

    I know, right? Between introducing me to the phrase "yacht rock" and the totes awesome Herb Alpert video, dw is my boyfriend today.


    Guess what? This page has grown so big that my phone refuses to load it (as in "This page is too big to load, please navigate to a smaller page" error message).

    #1388! Don't! Stop! Now!
    posted by pineapple at 1:20 PM on April 2, 2008


    Well, yacht rock isn't mine, of course.

    dw is my boyfriend today.

    Oh please. My heart belongs to Miko. Figuratively. Legally, half of it belongs to my wife, Washington being a community property state.
    posted by dw at 3:05 PM on April 2, 2008


    Y'all can entertain yourselves a bit with my mixtape.
    posted by klangklangston at 3:38 PM on April 2, 2008


    dw said: 'dw is my boyfriend today.' 'Oh please.'

    Well, in that case, I DIDN'T ask you to dance. I said, YOU LOOK FAT IN THOSE PANTS.
    posted by pineapple at 3:41 PM on April 2, 2008


    NOBODY PUTS DW IN A CORNER!!!!!!!
    posted by dw at 4:05 PM on April 2, 2008


    Could a tiger put you in a corner? What if it was a tiger with a midget riding its back, and the midget had a taser gun. Would that put you in a corner?

    Or more importantly, will you be doing research on how many 4 years you can take in a fight? Is that really why you posted that question about "birthday parties". Are you trying to do a mythbusters type plausible / confirmed test? Hmmmm?
    posted by mrzarquon at 4:13 PM on April 2, 2008


    Here was the story from the faculty lunch table today. There's a nudie bar about 20 miles away, out in the country. A bunch of old timers talking about this, sort of laughing. And one older prof says:

    Yeah, I went there once with some buddies about ten years ago. I hadn't ever been there, at was fun. One of the dancers was doing her thing near me, and she leaned over and whispered in my ear. I couldn't understand at first so I asked her to repeat it... She said 'So, are you still teaching chemistry?'
    posted by LobsterMitten at 4:22 PM on April 2, 2008 [1 favorite]


    And pineapple, I didn't mean to break your heart. Here, here's some more 1970s instrumental video love for you.
    posted by dw at 4:24 PM on April 2, 2008


    Wow, talk about yacht rock -- I'm pretty sure the first time I heard that song was at a clambake at the harbor. Chin chin, my good man.
    posted by pineapple at 5:55 PM on April 2, 2008


    (Oh, and we're still broken up. So, nyeh.)
    posted by pineapple at 5:56 PM on April 2, 2008


    You people are real troopers.

    Chin chin Penis, my good man.
    posted by CKmtl at 6:20 PM on April 2, 2008


    Time for another milestone?
    posted by dersins at 6:29 PM on April 2, 2008


    1400 it is!
    posted by dersins at 6:30 PM on April 2, 2008


    (Oh, and we're still broken up. So, nyeh.)

    Fine. With this one you'll either forgive me or be waiting to Jack Nicklaus tee off in the 1977 US Open.
    posted by dw at 8:16 PM on April 2, 2008 [1 favorite]


    ^ That is 10000000% more awesome than required by the normal laws of existence in this universe.
    posted by Burhanistan at 9:01 PM on April 2, 2008


    Speaking of more awesome than is strictly required... who's excited for BSG tomorrow?
    posted by heeeraldo at 10:35 AM on April 3, 2008


    who's excited for BSG tomorrow?

    Oh, me! And thanks for the reminder - I have to email some friends who host a BSG get-together and find out what I should bring. Usually, the only ingredients required for the evening are martinis (supplied by the hosts), the television (likewise), and plenty of snark (contributed by all). But what with this being the last season premier, I'm thinking we should have good snacks, or something.
    posted by rtha at 11:36 AM on April 3, 2008


    My Tivo's "Now Playing" list looks something like this:

    Battlestar Galactica
    Battlestar Galactica
    Battlestar Galactica
    Battlestar Galactica
    Battlestar Galactica
    Battlestar Galactica
    Mister Rogers' Neighborhood
    Battlestar Galactica
    Battlestar Galactica
    Battlestar Galactica
    Battlestar Galactica
    Ni Hao, Kai-lan
    Battlestar Galactica
    Battlestar Galactica
    Battlestar Galactica
    posted by The corpse in the library at 11:43 AM on April 3, 2008


    At least you still have what we call "grown-up TV" on your TiVo. I have a full season of Doctor Who that's been basically unwatched, last night's Daily and Colbert, a few Good Eats episodes, and I think an Office rerun. The other 60 hours? Pretty much everything Noggin and PBS Kids shows.
    posted by dw at 12:39 PM on April 3, 2008


    corpse: Ni Hao, Kai-lan

    I mis-parsed that as Ni Hao, Gai-Lan, and wondered why there would be a show about dark leafy (tasty) greens. I mean, I love me some gai-lan in oyster sauce... but as entertainment?
    posted by heeeraldo at 12:48 PM on April 3, 2008


    Battlestar Galactica
    Mister Rogers' Neighborhood


    Hmm, this brings to mind the possibility of a great crossover, where Cylons invade the Neighborhood of Make-Believe; King Friday is ready to cede them control just to make sure his people are safe, but X the Owl ain't going to take that shit and forms an underground rebellion. It culminates in a scene where Queen Sara Saturday is laying down suppressing fire while Henrietta Pussycat tries to equip the Train to Make-believe with the kiloton nuke that they are going to use to 'blow those toasters back to frack'.

    I'd watch that in a heartbeat.
    posted by quin at 1:12 PM on April 3, 2008 [2 favorites]


    More random dumpster-diving: old thread about NikkiCraft related stuff (which I got to via an even older thread about wdpeck, then-merely-alleged child molester and about whom Nikki was writing a lot at the time on her hall of shame site, hence her intro to mefi) in which she calls me "Cortex" with the quotes and everything. Grr. (In a sentence where she clarifies that a smiley at the end of a sentence always makes everything okay. So she was being "provocative", not provocative.)
    posted by cortex (staff) at 1:25 PM on April 3, 2008 [1 favorite]


    "Cortex", you forgot to close your parenthesis after that one-eyed smiley.
    posted by Dr. Curare at 1:42 PM on April 3, 2008


    Wait, who is NikkiCraft?
    posted by pineapple at 1:42 PM on April 3, 2008


    TWENTY PEOPLE SAME AS IN TOWN .) .) .)
    posted by cortex (staff) at 1:50 PM on April 3, 2008 [2 favorites]


    Man, following that rabbit hole further down: there's this Ellis parody in the NikkiCraft FPP that spawned the above-linked metatalk thread, from user ori, whose name rung a bell. Turns out he's the guy who was convinced FiestyFerret was a big liar back when that was the topic of discussion, and he abandoned that account thereafter, apparently.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 1:57 PM on April 3, 2008


    Are you trying to ruin any productivity I may have, cortex? Some of us have hours of Ni Hao, Kai-lan BSG to watch, you know.
    posted by The corpse in the library at 2:42 PM on April 3, 2008


    Ni Hao, Cy-lon!

    Mister Adama's Neighborhood

    Starbuck Street


    D'Anna Tales, D'Anna Tales, it's almost time for D'Anna Tales

    Six, Six, Six, Six, let's sing a song about Six. How many is Six? Six!
    posted by The corpse in the library at 2:56 PM on April 3, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Damn, you people are old.
    posted by Phire at 3:46 PM on April 3, 2008


    .) .) .)

    Wow, it's ASCII-art Eccentrica Gallumbits.
    posted by ikkyu2 at 7:20 PM on April 3, 2008 [1 favorite]


    I was making a comment on the alternate universe post in the blue when I heard a sigh and a moan.

    My typing had accidentally tickled cortex's last comment's outlaying erogenous zones.
    posted by Dr. Curare at 8:17 PM on April 3, 2008


    Okay, are any of y'all playing over at XSketch.com? It's like low-tech online group Pictionary, with no downloads. I just found it today via JiG, and I'm playing like it's crack -- but also, secretly wishing that there were MeFites playing too.
    posted by pineapple at 10:39 PM on April 3, 2008


    That is actually addictive like crack, pineapple. Curses.
    posted by Phire at 2:58 AM on April 4, 2008


    i've always thought that cornflakes look a bit like people.
    posted by UbuRoivas at 3:10 AM on April 4, 2008


    What you're saying is that the people you know look like cornflakes, amirite?
    posted by languagehat at 6:02 AM on April 4, 2008


    Oops, forgot the smiley: .)
    posted by languagehat at 6:03 AM on April 4, 2008


    Phire said: "That is actually addictive like crack, pineapple. Curses."

    I *thought* that was you last night!

    The people I know look like Frosted Mini-Wheats.
    posted by pineapple at 6:13 AM on April 4, 2008


    .) is that a pirate's smiley? Yarr.
    posted by adamrice at 7:00 AM on April 4, 2008


    It's a Xenu love child smiley

    I'm so sorry.
    posted by Burhanistan at 7:26 AM on April 4, 2008


    Today's single link YouTube instrumental post: Classical Gas, 1968.

    The horn bridge was used as the local news theme for a bunch of local affiliates in the 1970s.
    posted by dw at 7:32 AM on April 4, 2008 [2 favorites]


    No, this is the Xenu love-child smiley •:).

    And can I just say, it really pisses me off when people confuse their obscure cult-referencing emoticons. Let's try to get it right.
    •) Xenu smiles upon you
    •:) Xenu's children are enjoying their kool-aid
    ‡( You have pissed off Norsefire
    ⚇ The grays are watching you
    ⚆ The pirate grays are watching you
    ™   | The Maharishi is levitating above you
    ☽⩶ Reverend Moon is going to officiate at your mass wedding.
    posted by adamrice at 8:12 AM on April 4, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Only a few days of life left for this thread. It's definitely moved in to the nursing home. Will it die an obscure death, slumping over in a chair in the TV lounge waiting for medication time, wandering why Bob Barker looks so funny lately? Or will the dying thread seize a last chance for glory and snatch the duty nurse's car keys that she carelessly leaves on the desk while she's making rounds and rush out to the parking lot, jump in her 99 Corolla, and make a blazing exit in the sunset?
    posted by Burhanistan at 12:36 PM on April 4, 2008 [1 favorite]


    *rents boat*
    posted by cortex (staff) at 12:41 PM on April 4, 2008


    *wanders by, looks at boat*

    Say, mister, looks like you got took. That there boat's got a hole's big as a silver dollar right smack dab in the bottom of 'er.

    *takes swig from hip flask, belches*
    posted by languagehat at 1:13 PM on April 4, 2008


    you're gonna need a bigger boat.
    posted by shmegegge at 1:20 PM on April 4, 2008


    *randles*
    posted by cortex (staff) at 1:51 PM on April 4, 2008


    You know, if one scans LH's last comment very quickly, it looks like he said *felches*.

    Talk about your spit-takes!
    posted by pineapple at 2:15 PM on April 4, 2008


    *hydrotherapy consoles*
    posted by cortex (staff) at 2:23 PM on April 4, 2008


    Today's story from the faculty lunch table:

    Professor has spent a long agonizing lecture trying to get through the finer points of the Waste Land; is now beginning to feel like he's made progress. Students have looks similar to comprehension, rather than blank hostility. He finishes, and asks in an expansive spirit "So, do you have any questions?" Stillness, quiet. Finally a student raises her hand, looking confident. He calls on her... "Is there a Coke machine in this building?"

    ... Well, yes, there is, the prof answers. Good mood slightly diminished but still feeling in the zone. He gamely asks again "So, any other questions?" Again, pause, stillness. The same student raises her hand: "Can I borrow 60 cents?"
    posted by LobsterMitten at 2:23 PM on April 4, 2008


    This is apocryphal, no?
    posted by dersins at 2:56 PM on April 4, 2008


    I mean, Coke machines have been more than 60 cents for quite awhile now.
    posted by dersins at 2:57 PM on April 4, 2008


    There's a coke machine in my building that is 60 cents. Per-item prices are often* established at the vending customer's discretion, with the vending contracter just requiring a certain baseline monthly take plus a set commission on individual sales regardless of what the customer wants to charge their vendees. So if a vending customer is willing to take a loss (or not make much money, at least) on a machine, they can totally lowball the prices.

    *in my ridiculously limited experience. Do not quote me.

    posted by cortex (staff) at 3:14 PM on April 4, 2008


    cortex: "There's a coke machine in my building that is 60 cents. Per-item prices are often* established at the vending customer's discretion, with the vending contracter just requiring a certain baseline monthly take plus a set commission on individual sales regardless of what the customer wants to charge their vendees. So if a vending customer is willing to take a loss (or not make much money, at least) on a machine, they can totally lowball the prices.

    *in my ridiculously limited experience. Do not quote me.
    "

    no.
    posted by mrzarquon at 3:34 PM on April 4, 2008


    I was taking it that the student had some money but needed to borrow the difference.

    Although there are vending machines outside the local Safeway here that have some kind of sub-generic cola ("Go Cola" maybe?) that's 35 cents a can.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 4:07 PM on April 4, 2008


    that's 35 cents a can.

    You know, when I scanned that very quickly, it looked like it said "35 cents a ton."

    And I thought, Man, I want to try that stuff.
    posted by languagehat at 5:11 PM on April 4, 2008


    You would.

    I have no idea what I mean by that, but you have to admit it sounds plausible...
    posted by dersins at 6:12 PM on April 4, 2008


    Why did my "Can I borrow 60 cents?" AskMe get deleted?

    Can I borrow 60 cents?
    posted by Dr. Curare at 6:54 PM on April 4, 2008


    It ends tonight...
    posted by Tenuki at 6:56 PM on April 4, 2008


    It ends tonight? How? why? We aren't ANYWHERE NEAR OUR GOAL!*


    *NB: there may or may not be a goal.
    posted by pineapple at 9:47 PM on April 4, 2008


    It can't end tonight.

    Favorite color in the Crayola 64 color box?
    posted by LobsterMitten at 10:38 PM on April 4, 2008


    Forest green. And midnight blue.
    posted by rtha at 11:44 PM on April 4, 2008


    Also, the Battlestar Galactica season premier was fantastic. Anybody else watch?
    posted by rtha at 11:46 PM on April 4, 2008


    (I won't spoilerize anything, I promise.)
    posted by rtha at 11:47 PM on April 4, 2008


    I can't believe Starbuck was actually Luke Skywalker's father.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 12:52 AM on April 5, 2008


    He made damn good coffee, I'll tell you that.
    posted by languagehat at 6:40 AM on April 5, 2008


    The return of Lee Adama and company almost makes up for having to go with Captain Jack Harkness' crew for a while.

    And obviously not spoilers, merely guesses, but I want them on record when I turn out to be right:

    1) Lee is a Cylon.
    2) When we reach Earth? It'll be well in the past.
    posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 7:14 AM on April 5, 2008 [1 favorite]


    (go without)
    posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 7:15 AM on April 5, 2008


    I'm going with an entirely new character for the Fifth and Final Cylon reveal. It's unfair in ordinary storytelling to introduce a pivotal character at the end of a story, but so what? There have been plenty of unfair revelations and turns in Moore's story so far, and they've gotten away with the big ones every time, in my view.

    So, yeah, I'm saying the Big Kahuna Cylon will be somebody we haven't seen before in the show. Also, it'll probably be a recognizable star actor, someone the fans will love to see.
    posted by cgc373 at 8:44 AM on April 5, 2008


    So, yeah, I'm saying the Big Kahuna Cylon will be somebody we haven't seen before in the show. Also, it'll probably be a recognizable star actor, someone the fans will love to see.

    I think it'll be a computer-generated version of Lorne Greene.
    posted by dw at 8:51 AM on April 5, 2008


    I keep going back to when the Leoben said "Adama is a Cylon." We all just ASSUMED he meant Bill, and then that he was just screwing with people. But why did we assume Bill Adama?

    (An obvious flaw there being that it seems that the rank and file cylons wouldn't know who is and isn't, but it could still be a clue from the writers....)

    But I'm just spitballing. It's my theory.

    I think it'll be a computer-generated version of Lorne Greene.

    Dirk. Fucking. Benedict.
    posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 9:05 AM on April 5, 2008


    well the world don't move...
    posted by shmegegge at 9:15 AM on April 5, 2008


    to the beat of just one drum
    posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 9:20 AM on April 5, 2008


    It seems like the identity of the last cylon has already been leaked, both cgc373 and JKF were right.
    posted by Dr. Curare at 10:57 AM on April 5, 2008


    Dirk. Fucking. Benedict.

    No, better: David Leisure pretending to be Dirk Benedict, before being confronted by an out-of-character Dirk Benedict on the subject, leading to an increasingly surreal and unhinged series of events that culminate in a swiringly, psychedelic cacophony of sound and images and then:

    Lorne Green wakes, gasping, in bed. He sits up and breaths for few seconds, visible reorienting himself, and then he turns to face the camera and confides his revelation: "It was all...just a dream!"

    Roll credits.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 11:40 AM on April 5, 2008


    Have I been missing something by not watching Battlestar Galactica? As much as I loved the original series (and the original Star Trek) when I was a kid, I've never really been able to get into science fiction TV shows that take themselves too seriously (Babylon 5, I'm looking at you.

    But there's been so much positive press about Battlestar Galactica, that I'm beginning to reconsider my position.

    Anyone feel passionately enough one way or the other to try to convince me?
    posted by dersins at 12:16 PM on April 5, 2008


    Adama turns out to be the big Cylon, all hell breaks loose, then he's hit in the head with a golf ball...

    ...only to wake up in a hospital hooked up to all sorts of machines. Starbuck, dressed like a doctor, says,

    "You're awake. Well, that was a close one there, wasn't it? But the emergency bypass surgery was a success.

    "Your calculus class would like to see you now, Mr. Escalante."

    to black, credits
    posted by dw at 12:20 PM on April 5, 2008


    dersins,

    I was in the same situation. For a while every conversation with coworkers and roommates was a BSG conversation. I think the series is OK, but the episodes are too fucking long and full of character building, tension building, misdirection, emotional exploration and all that writerly storytelling crap.

    The only way I can bear to watch it is with fast forward capabilities. Based on what I hear from true fans when they describe new episodes scene by scene and try to figure out what it all means, you don't lose much if you turn each episode into a 10 to 12 minute exercise in skim-watching.
    posted by Dr. Curare at 12:45 PM on April 5, 2008


    Anyone feel passionately enough one way or the other to try to convince me?

    I don't know if this will sell you or not, dersins.

    The writing's really tight. The acting's good. The production values are fucking gorgeous. Plot and characters are, on the whole, excellent. And it's plot and character that are the core here, not gadgets or OMG, ALIENS!

    Scifi's never really been my thing; I've picked around the edges of the genre (both written and TV/movies) for years, but I never really liked any of the incarnations of Star Trek; I found the first BSG awful and cheesy; I vaguely remember liking Space 1999.

    The new BSG does take itself pretty seriously, true - although you should watch (it's online at scifi.com) the 8-Minute Recap, which is accurate and narrated with tongue firmly in cheek. It's a lot of metaphor and analogy; my partner stopped watching it early in the first season because it sometimes felt like watching news about Iraq, but with everyone in space, instead. But to me, it's not a science fiction TV show that takes itself seriously; it's a TV show about war (that takes place in space) that takes itself seriously. I don't know if that will be true from your perception, or if that will make a difference to you.

    It isn't perfect. Parts of the 3rd season were just...well, they weren't good. The writers and producers made some choices I wouldn't have made in terms of story arcs, but hey, I skipped the eps I couldn't stand, stayed caught up by reading recaps, and happily joined a bunch of folks for Gay Geek Night to watch the season premier on Friday, which ended with all of us cheering and applauding. And speculating.

    Give a it a shot. Watch the miniseries and the first couple eps of season 1, and if you hate it, well...if we're ever at a meetup together, I owe you a drink or two. But if you like good television, you owe it to yourself to give this series some consideration.
    posted by rtha at 12:56 PM on April 5, 2008


    I see Dr. Curare and I have very different takes on things.

    but the episodes are too fucking long and full of character building, tension building, misdirection, emotional exploration and all that writerly storytelling crap.


    I really don't see why these are bad things, especially in a television show, a medium generally known best for its formulaic plots, thin writing, and flat characters, but to each her own.
    posted by rtha at 1:02 PM on April 5, 2008


    rtha, one of us has to recalibrate their humormeter. Probably me.
    posted by Dr. Curare at 1:05 PM on April 5, 2008


    FIRST!
    on preview: I guess not...
    posted by dawson at 1:13 PM on April 5, 2008


    Costco in Seattle on a Saturday: What's the best metaphor for the experience?

    a. Running Of The Bulls performed by people in REI anoraks
    b. Disaster film panic with HDTVs and food samples
    c. The 1973-74 Oil Embargo reenacted by shopping carts
    d. All of the above, only performed by a troupe of Cirque de Soleil knockoffs made up of pasty white obese Americans and pasty white Asian-Americans?
    posted by dw at 2:07 PM on April 5, 2008


    You know, Doc, I was thinking about your comment while I was out running errands (tried to buy some sneakers at the Sketchers outlet - nothing I liked in my size, sadly), and once the cup of Phliz coffee kicked in, I dope-slapped myself. Apologies for the clueless callout!
    posted by rtha at 2:47 PM on April 5, 2008


    Well, I made the comment before my Philz. I am finishing a (now cold) large Soooo Good. I am moving through all the different coffees. What's your favorite?

    Did you go to the Philz on 24? I was there when the live music was playing. The keyboard was too loud, could hardly hear the upright bass, and the singer had a nice voice, but I could not make out the words.
    posted by Dr. Curare at 2:55 PM on April 5, 2008


    I had an Ecstatic Iced Coffee, with cream and sugar, so it tastes like drinking the world's best coffee ice cream. Ecstasy indeed.

    Yep, the 24th st. store, though there was no live music when I stopped by around...1:30ish? 2ish? After the Giants lost to the Brewers, anyway. How's the Soooo Good? I nearly ordered that.

    BTW, there's an active raven's nest on the back of the Sketchers' sign. Yay.
    posted by rtha at 3:06 PM on April 5, 2008


    The Soooo Good is good, it was surprising that it is the closest in smell and taste to Ritual's coffee. I am partial to light roasts, so I liked it. I was there at 12:45 more or less.

    I wonder how many times I have crossed paths with mefites without realizing. I always miss the meetups, it is like the company checks the meetup calendar and schedules live releases to match. Every single SF meetup has taken place when I am exhausted after 36 hours of coding.

    Do you mean Skechers sign?

    I can see the old Mission theater sign from my patio, and a bit of the Skechers sign. I always know when the falcons are on the sign because the pigeons go quiet.

    I have been trying to get a nice silhouette picture of ravens to trace for a poster. Ravens can detect the infra red beam form the autofocus mechanism, and it causes them to shake, I am sure, because all my pictures are of blurry black things.

    The best place to see ravens is around Cole and 28th, they are all over the place, and it looks great when they stand on the old Victorian houses there.
    posted by Dr. Curare at 3:22 PM on April 5, 2008


    BTW rtha, how does it look when the Government Office for Elderly Affairs eats the Bangkok Network of Money?

    I have only witnessed the Department of Homeland Security swallow whole the Immigration and Naturalization Service, and it was not nice.
    posted by Dr. Curare at 3:26 PM on April 5, 2008


    Why did I type Bangkok Network of Money? Bangkok Network of Women!

    Worst Freudian Slip I've had since late yourmother last year.
    posted by Dr. Curare at 3:34 PM on April 5, 2008


    I just popped in to say that I'm going to Hawaii today! Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
    posted by goshling at 3:49 PM on April 5, 2008


    dw: Costco in Seattle on a Saturday: What's the best metaphor for the experience?

    a. Running Of The Bulls performed by people in REI anoraks
    b. Disaster film panic with HDTVs and food samples
    c. The 1973-74 Oil Embargo reenacted by shopping carts
    d. All of the above, only performed by a troupe of Cirque de Soleil knockoffs made up of pasty white obese Americans and pasty white Asian-Americans?



    You forgot, the hunt for the great parking space. And the arrangement of children and boxes to fit them all into / ontop of their SUV.

    Everytime I am at costco, I remind myself that murder is still illegal, and I am not allowed to bite people. Also, I will reward my good behavior with a trip to smarty pants.

    Also: Enjoy Hawaii Goshling!
    posted by mrzarquon at 3:57 PM on April 5, 2008


    They have Costco in Hawaii?
    posted by Dr. Curare at 4:14 PM on April 5, 2008


    Skechers, dammit!

    One raven was having a heckuva time approaching the nest, it was so windy. Hope the nest is anchored solidly to the sign.

    Since my first meetup (in Dec., when mathowie was in town), I imagine that every time I'm on the bus, or waiting in line at the grocery store, I am no more than 6 feet from a mefite. Y'all aren't actually spiders, are you? I will certainly add Philz to that list now.

    Seeing a GOEA catch and eat a BNOW, I was impressed at how neat the GOEA was; it was ground-perched, sitting sort of on top of the BNOW, and in a few minutes, there was a wide circle of feathers around it. Felt bad for the BNOW, but it was a pretty cool thing to see. (Actually, didn't see the GOEA catch the BNOW; we saw the GOEA, and it flew away for a couple of minutes to the other side of the cliff, out of our sight. When it came back it had something large and pale in its talons.)

    Re: Costco: This only works for us during football season, but we discovered that going when the 49ers are playing, especially if they're at home, is a near-guarantee for an empty store. I also become murderous, and have to be dropped off in the book section to calm down.

    goshling - aloha!
    posted by rtha at 4:26 PM on April 5, 2008


    They have Costco in Hawaii?

    Costco is huge in Hawaii; their highest volume store in the world is in suburban Honolulu.

    They had 24-packs of Mexican Coke (made with real sugar) today. And in glass bottles, too. $18. And yet, I didn't buy them because I decided I must lose this weight before the doc orders me to.
    posted by dw at 5:09 PM on April 5, 2008


    COCA COLA USA FRUCTOSA
    ♦ La compañía mexicana Coca-Cola Femsa, la segunda embotelladora de productos Coca-Cola en el mundo, dijo que está usando jarabe de maíz de alta fructosa en vez de azúcar en parte de su producción, lo que podría desatar las protestas del sector azucarero. Héctor Treviño, director de Finanzas, en una entrevista telefónica con analistas, dijo que la conocida como KOF, la embotelladora ha ganado un amparo para evitar pagar impuestos especiales “exorbitantes” si utiliza jarabe de maíz de alta fructosa para hacer refrescos. El Sol de México, 8-F / Milenio, 31

    Short version in English: Coca-Cola in Mexico is using high fructose corn syrup in part of its production. CocaCola got an Amparo (legal stuff worthy of a FPP) so it does not have to pay high taxes for using HFCS (taxes that in part protect the sugarcane industry).

    These taxes are the main reason they still use real sugar. Last time I was there, I could taste the difference between glass bottled coke bought directly at the bottling plant in Zapopan and canned coke I got in the airplane to LAX, bottled at the Mexicali plant. Glass bottled coke from mexico does not list ingredients, so unless you have tasted the real stuff for reference, you could be getting the HFCS stuff at costco.
    posted by Dr. Curare at 6:10 PM on April 5, 2008 [1 favorite]


    I believe the cases do have the ingredients listed.

    I will have to check. One of my favorite things about visiting seattle's costco? besides smarty pants, the 4th street liquor store is on the way there, so I can pickup a bottle of hard to find bourbon or whisky (they have some small batch stuff called Jefferson Whiskey/bourbon there that is quite good btw).
    posted by mrzarquon at 6:21 PM on April 5, 2008


    so unless you have tasted the real stuff for reference, you could be getting the HFCS stuff at costco.

    But if you have tasted the real stuff, it's very easy to tell the difference based on taste alone.
    posted by Miko at 6:49 PM on April 5, 2008


    Glass bottled coke from mexico does not list ingredients, so unless you have tasted the real stuff for reference, you could be getting the HFCS stuff at costco.

    There was an ingredients label on the case that listed sugar as the #2 ingredient. Label was in English, BTW; probably required for import.

    Glass bottled coke from mexico does not list ingredients, so unless you have tasted the real stuff for reference, you could be getting the HFCS stuff at costco.

    I always thought this wasn't true, and then one day I actually had an HFCS Coke and a Mexican Coke side-by-side and noticed the Mexican Coke was a little less sweet and a little more complex than the HFCS Coke.

    Agua Verde used to sell Mexican Cokes, but now it's all canned stuff. They barely have any canned/bottled Mexican drinks anymore, either. Considering how incredibly busy they are with the UW crowd at lunch, I'm amazed they cut those expenses.
    posted by dw at 7:43 PM on April 5, 2008


    dw- could cost of every hip place now serving it.

    Btw this is painfully slow to type on my phone from a bar.


    Anyone have suggestions on what to do on Capitol hill when everyone you know is out of town?
    posted by mrzarquon at 8:00 PM on April 5, 2008


    Anyone have suggestions on what to do on Capitol hill when everyone you know is out of town?

    Go to Quinn's, get a burger and some of the ridiculously delicious fries. The ones that are like poutine except with demiglace and fontina. But skip the optional foie gras, because even though foie gras is delicious as fuck, it's a bit much to add to those fries.
    posted by dersins at 9:03 PM on April 5, 2008


    Come on people, 13 more comments and I can go to sleep.
    posted by Dr. Curare at 12:48 AM on April 6, 2008


    Rock-a-bye, Dr. Curare...
    posted by The corpse in the library at 6:32 AM on April 6, 2008


    Why did I type Bangkok Network of Money? Bangkok Network of Women!

    Best typo I've seen in ages. And I've been enjoying the Philz/Skechers/Costco back-and-forth. Way to keep a thread going, guys! We'll make our next milestone without breaking a sweat!
    posted by languagehat at 6:53 AM on April 6, 2008


    cortex is bound to show up soon with some kind of fourteen-ninety Columbus string, languagehat, so yeah, we shouldn't have any trouble with the big round numbers.

    Anybody notice there's been more than 24 hours without a MeTa?
    posted by cgc373 at 7:54 AM on April 6, 2008


    By fourteen hundred ninety one
    "Columbus string" seemed overdone.

    Anybody notice there's been more than 24 hours without a MeTa?

    It has been, but just barely—we deleted this yesterday morning.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 8:01 AM on April 6, 2008


    I've been watching that MeTa next-post spot intently.
    And if you guys can delete posts to keep it quiet in there, well, we should be golden until this thread ends because all the chattishness will have to come in here. Go cortex, you can do it. Valhalla awaits for this thread if you do your bit.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 9:28 AM on April 6, 2008


    I think Meatloaf should put out a Viking album. And the title track would be "Valhalla can Wait".
    posted by cortex (staff) at 9:40 AM on April 6, 2008


    I don't understand why people don't choose usernames they like in the first place. "When I joined I got excited and slammed my hand down on the keyboard and got vgkjhyi, and I can never remember how to spell it and now I'd like to be called AwesomeMeFiGuy!" Sucks to be you, pal. Pay your five bucks and take a number.
    posted by languagehat at 9:42 AM on April 6, 2008


    Just five more comments, by the way.
    posted by languagehat at 9:42 AM on April 6, 2008


    I wonder how many people are trying to snipe on 1500.
    posted by grouse at 10:01 AM on April 6, 2008


    me too.
    posted by UbuRoivas at 10:11 AM on April 6, 2008


    hey, what happened there?
    posted by UbuRoivas at 10:14 AM on April 6, 2008


    hm, seems to be working fine now.
    posted by UbuRoivas at 10:15 AM on April 6, 2008


    Also featuring:

    - "I Would Pillage Anything for Love (But I Won't Rape That)"
    - "Bjyrn out of Helsinki"
    - "You Took the Mutton Right Outta my Mouth"
    - "Paradise By the Ship's Bow Light"
    - "All Berserked up with No Place to Loot"
    posted by cortex (staff) at 10:15 AM on April 6, 2008


    Where?
    posted by The corpse in the library at 10:15 AM on April 6, 2008


    *scratches butt*
    posted by UbuRoivas at 10:16 AM on April 6, 2008


    My question was directed at UbuRoivas, but really, it works as a response to most of the posts in this thread.
    posted by The corpse in the library at 10:17 AM on April 6, 2008


    Even that one. Eew.
    posted by The corpse in the library at 10:17 AM on April 6, 2008


    NOOOOOOOO!

    I DID NOT SET THE ALARM FOR 3:15 AM TO BE PIPPED AT THE POST!

    I DEMAND THAT MY SECOND "ME TOO" BE REINSTATED YOU HORRIBLE CHEAT!
    posted by UbuRoivas at 10:20 AM on April 6, 2008


    Oh you are not gonna walk in here and besmirch my administrative honor, buddy. I'll get Jim Steinman coked up and make him write a whole album about the relative superiority of my moral milkshake.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 10:30 AM on April 6, 2008


    YOUR COKED UP JIM STEINMAN IS NO MATCH FOR MY USAGE OF BOLD CAPITALS!
    posted by UbuRoivas at 10:39 AM on April 6, 2008


    BOLD AND ITALICS

    Man, where did I put my Serifs?

    (And for those wondering, I ended up starting at cafe metro, getting in touch with some friends who were still here, grabbing some more beer at the Satellite, went to fremont for the Audiooasis show by KEXP, got to see some weird seattle rap, then decided that what my stomach really needed was biscuits and gravy, so I went to Hurricane. After the first biscuit, i realized what I really needed was sleep, so I went home and went to sleep. I have been to Quin's before, so I know their awesomeness that is their french fries. Also they do some wicked stuff with oxtail and gnochi. Dersins, were you at the seattle meetup? you should have been. Next time I think we are going to georgetown).
    posted by mrzarquon at 10:55 AM on April 6, 2008


    I so enjoy the phrase "pipped at the post", especially after the viking talk. I enjoy an alternate history where [whoa crazy squirrels outside my office window, which is at ground level!].. ahem, where vikings invaded England and settled down, and in the early 20th c. it's their descendants who were the especially effete English upperclass.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 12:35 PM on April 6, 2008


    Also we are so pushing this thing to 2K. Four days, right? Come on. 125 comments a day --we can totally do it if we stay focused and committed. C'mon team.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 12:36 PM on April 6, 2008


    Hey Pacific Northwest, you guys stink on ice!
    posted by LobsterMitten at 12:37 PM on April 6, 2008


    You can't stink on ice. being cold reduces rate at which volatile chemicals (ie smells) travel, which is why the wonderful hobo alleys of new york only really get their aroma during 80% humidity on the 90 degree days.

    Unless of course, you are implying that we stink on the hockey rink, which I would not doubt. Being in the pacific northwest we rarely have severe freezes. So there is not much ice for us to practice on.
    posted by mrzarquon at 12:52 PM on April 6, 2008


    There is a pidgeon outside my hobbitesque seattle apartment, right at the ground level with the window, which has caused both of my cats to sit in the window chattering at it.
    posted by mrzarquon at 12:55 PM on April 6, 2008


    in order to do my part for the 2k project. I suggest we replace carriage returns with the post button.
    posted by mrzarquon at 12:55 PM on April 6, 2008


    Post 1515! Also, safari doesn't even know what to do with this page, after posting I have to use end to get all the way down here.
    posted by mrzarquon at 12:56 PM on April 6, 2008


    Even greasemonkey/firefox is not happy with it! 484 posts to go!
    posted by mrzarquon at 12:58 PM on April 6, 2008


    Safari, eh? More like 'Shitfari', amirite?
    posted by chrismear at 12:59 PM on April 6, 2008


    There's an ice rink not too far from me. Maybe we could have a Meetup there sometime? Then we could find out if we stink on ice.
    posted by The corpse in the library at 1:01 PM on April 6, 2008


    I don't know if we will stink on ice, but we will probably be bruised and / or have broken bones on ice. At least a damaged coccyx.
    posted by mrzarquon at 1:03 PM on April 6, 2008


    Is he coming, too?
    posted by The corpse in the library at 1:13 PM on April 6, 2008


    both of my cats

    I hate to tell you, mrzarquon, but your cats are thinking seriously about killing and eating you. I know that look.
    posted by languagehat at 1:14 PM on April 6, 2008


    Say, got any of those biscuits left over? I do love biscuits and gravy.
    posted by languagehat at 1:14 PM on April 6, 2008


    Sorry, I couldn't bring myself to take them home with me. They were a mark of my late night food failure. Also they weren't that good, and I don't think you'd want cold gelatinous sausage gravy.
    posted by mrzarquon at 1:17 PM on April 6, 2008


    No, no I don't. But that reminds me: you're not supposed to reheat risotto, and yet we find ourselves with a portion of leftover risotto. Any ideas on how to most successfully avoid its turning into a gluey mass?

    (What do you mean, take it to AskMe? How are we going to hit milestones if I take my problems to AskMe?)
    posted by languagehat at 1:28 PM on April 6, 2008


    make risotto pancakes?
    posted by mrzarquon at 1:40 PM on April 6, 2008


    There's an ice rink not too far from me. Maybe we could have a Meetup there sometime? Then we could find out if we stink on ice.

    I do stink on ice. I can't skate. My wife used to take lessons there before the daughter was born.

    The daughter is 4 today. We got Cupcake Royale for her.
    posted by dw at 2:01 PM on April 6, 2008


    Oh, to tie the threads together, I passed by Highland Ice Rink on the way home from Costco last night.
    posted by dw at 2:01 PM on April 6, 2008


    I really wish that Kylie Minogue's "German Bold Italic" was a better song. I mean, it's the best song about a font that I can think of, but it's really kind of boring and overlong. It's got a good hook, but it's almost seven minutes long, has a lame "jazzy" break, and whenever Kylie's doing her spoken-word bridge it's just, like, so dumb.

    I wish there were more songs about fonts too. Garamond, particularly. But Helvetica probably already has some, as should comic sans.
    posted by klangklangston at 2:16 PM on April 6, 2008


    Dude, remix it.
    posted by chrismear at 2:21 PM on April 6, 2008


    So I have been playing Resident Evil: The Umbrella Chronicles, and let me tell you: rail shooters are back, motherfuckers. Hell yes.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 2:21 PM on April 6, 2008


    cortex: would you reccomend someone picking up a Wii to play it? I haven't ever played RE, but i keep getting the idea that I would like it.
    posted by mrzarquon at 2:24 PM on April 6, 2008


    Also, I lost my voice a couple days ago, just in time for a Harvey Girls show, which, well, shit. Backup vocals, though, and Melissa has pipes like crazy so no one in the crowd would have really known better, but it was still shit timing.

    And yesterday I took advantage of this by recording a couple of rediculously raspy, uneven covers that may or may not turn out to sound like such ass that I'll never post them and the only evidence that they exist will be this comment in a thread that about a dozen of us are still reading and which no one else will ever care about.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 2:25 PM on April 6, 2008


    You can't stink on ice. being cold reduces rate at which volatile chemicals (ie smells) travel

    Dude, the point is you stink so much, that even when you're on ice you still stink. Your stink is that powerful.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 2:28 PM on April 6, 2008


    about risotto: my usual method is to reheat a bit in microwave, add extra virgin olive oil, stir, reheat a bit more, add fresh pecorino romano or whatever hard cheese you have on hand and enjoy. Ok, it gets a little gluey, but it's still delicious.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 2:31 PM on April 6, 2008


    Does anybody know if Vikings knew how to ice skate?

    I could imagine some fearsome raiding parties if that were the case. Especially when the seas froze over. Something like this, but with more ice and less desert.
    posted by UbuRoivas at 2:31 PM on April 6, 2008


    Wii = totally fun, and good for including non-gamers or the shy. Super Mario Galaxy on the Wii got our whole extended family playing this past Christmas.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 2:33 PM on April 6, 2008


    Ubu, I salute your countrymen.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 2:35 PM on April 6, 2008


    You know, if we make it to 2K we could make this an annual charity event, the Sans Quoi 2K. I'm thinking t-shirts, proceeds to some thematically appropriate charity.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 2:37 PM on April 6, 2008


    I think they did cross country ski, which is somewhat fearsome on its own, hordes of vikings silently gliding across the soft powder, steadily come towards you. You can't run because the powder is too deep for you, all you hear is the gentle swoosh of their strides, until finally they overtake you, and offer you some delicious licorice.
    posted by mrzarquon at 2:38 PM on April 6, 2008


    languagehat, you must must must make arancini di risotto, that's what. Chill risotto. Roll into little balls. Dredge in breadcrumbs. Fry gently.

    Wipe traces of grease and drool from your fingers before furthering this thread with your grateful thanks and curses for introducing your new addiction, because arancini are that awesome.
    posted by desuetude at 2:41 PM on April 6, 2008


    mrzarquon, LobsterMitten: Thanks! We'll try one of those excellent suggestions and I'll let you know how it comes out.
    posted by languagehat at 2:41 PM on April 6, 2008


    It sounds like early Norsemen did ice skate! check it

    Skis and skates were certainly used for sport, but also had practical uses for travel in winter in the Norse lands. On snow covered ground or ice, travel on ski or skate would have been much easier than struggling through the snow on foot or on horseback. The 16th century illustration to the right shows both skis and skates in use in Norway. ...

    Ice skates were made of bones, usually from the metatarsal bones of horses or cattle (left). Leather straps or lace threaded through horizontal holes in the bones were used to tie the skates to the feet (right). An iron-tipped pole was used for propulsion. Because the skates have no edge, it is not possible to turn or stop as with modern ice skates. However, good speeds are easily obtainable. An article about our attempts to make and use reproduction bone ice skates is available here.

    posted by LobsterMitten at 2:42 PM on April 6, 2008


    1542... Hmm, yes, that was the year of the Battle of the Hill of the Jews.
    posted by languagehat at 2:44 PM on April 6, 2008


    'hat: My way with risotto is the less-valorous way. It's the way of the very hungry and not especially picky. So do one of the other things if you have the energy because those sound freaking awesome.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 2:45 PM on April 6, 2008


    OK, so LobsterMitten snuck in there and ruined my attempt to connect the comment number with History. Let's try again: 1544 was the year of the Battle of the Shirts.
    posted by languagehat at 2:46 PM on April 6, 2008


    OK, fuck History. It's risotto time!
    posted by languagehat at 2:47 PM on April 6, 2008


    And on non-preview: thanks, desuetude!
    posted by languagehat at 2:48 PM on April 6, 2008


    I'm like Space Invaders -- always on the move. You have to shoot where I'm going to be, not where I am.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 2:53 PM on April 6, 2008


    well damnit, looks like I might have to put a Wii + cable switcher on this months to buy list. And Resident Evil, and Wii Fit.
    posted by mrzarquon at 2:55 PM on April 6, 2008


    LobsterMitten: Invaders, Possibly of Space!

    Just beware of my all rush mix tape and my two litre bottle of shasta.
    posted by mrzarquon at 2:57 PM on April 6, 2008


    all you hear is the gentle swoosh of their strides, until finally they overtake you, and offer you some delicious licorice.

    What a great idea! I'm sending a raiding party to Melbourne, without delay!

    Here's the soundtrack - a song about raiding parties, would you believe?
    posted by UbuRoivas at 2:58 PM on April 6, 2008


    My God, look at the casualty numbers from the Battle of the Shirts. Thirteen left alive out of eight hundred men.
    posted by matthewr at 2:58 PM on April 6, 2008


    Fry: Whoa…a real live robot; or is that some kind of cheesy New Year's costume?
    Bender: Bite my shiny metal ass.
    Fry: It doesn't look so shiny to me.
    Bender: Shinier than yours, meatbag.
    posted by mrzarquon at 3:01 PM on April 6, 2008


    Bender: Come on! It is just like making love. You know, left, down, rotate 62 degrees, engage rotor...
    Amy: I know how to make love!
    posted by mrzarquon at 3:01 PM on April 6, 2008


    Morbo: Kittens give Morbo gas
    posted by mrzarquon at 3:01 PM on April 6, 2008


    Professor Farnsworth: [Fry has chastised the professor about changing history, after he has slept with his grandmother and become his own grandfather.]Ooh, a lesson in not changing history from Mister "I'm-My-Own-Grandpa"! Let's get the hell out of here already! Screw history!
    posted by mrzarquon at 3:01 PM on April 6, 2008


    Robot Devil: Give me back my hands! These things are always touching me… in places.
    Fry: Hah! Yeah, they get around.
    posted by mrzarquon at 3:01 PM on April 6, 2008


    Oh, why couldn't she have been the other kind of mermaid, with the fish part on the top and the lady part on the bottom?
    posted by LobsterMitten at 3:21 PM on April 6, 2008


    Morgan Proctor: Why is there yogurt in this cap?
    Fry: Well, it used to be milk, and well, time makes fools of us all.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 3:23 PM on April 6, 2008


    Zoidberg: Gracias
    posted by mrzarquon at 3:23 PM on April 6, 2008


    Fry, I think this flag might be poisonous.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 3:24 PM on April 6, 2008


    Well, then good news! It's a suppository.
    posted by mrzarquon at 3:26 PM on April 6, 2008


    Nothing in here except a pair of elephant skin rugs.
    posted by mrzarquon at 3:27 PM on April 6, 2008


    I'm the tallest and I weigh the most!
    posted by LobsterMitten at 3:48 PM on April 6, 2008


    you're not supposed to reheat risotto, and yet we find ourselves with a portion of leftover risotto

    Get some jumbo lump crab, and make crabcakes using leftover risotto as your starch / filler instead of breadcrumbs.
    posted by dersins at 4:04 PM on April 6, 2008


    Come, we can't slow down now. Can we do 35 comments in the next two hours?
    posted by LobsterMitten at 4:43 PM on April 6, 2008


    Yes we can.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 4:45 PM on April 6, 2008


    Oh, I don't know. Some of these posters around here are looking pretty limp right now.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 4:47 PM on April 6, 2008


    Come on, of course we can. They'll pick it up. Longboaters got game.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 4:48 PM on April 6, 2008


    HA HA! Now the rubber band is on the other claw!
    posted by dw at 4:56 PM on April 6, 2008


    I just got the iced coffee from Philz. It is good, rich and creamy. Phil was there, the only one with a non-ironic fedora and moustache.

    Bender deserves more respect, please refer to him as Mr. Rodriguez.
    posted by Dr. Curare at 5:01 PM on April 6, 2008


    What happens in two hours?
    posted by languagehat at 5:03 PM on April 6, 2008


    I thought we had 30 days before this shuts down automatically which should give us... 80-something more hours of chicanery.
    posted by heeeraldo at 5:15 PM on April 6, 2008


    I just got back from the gym. What did I miss? (btw, black berry/blue berry/frozen banana shakes are great).
    posted by mrzarquon at 5:21 PM on April 6, 2008


    best hidden joke in futurama: kegelcisor
    posted by mrzarquon at 5:23 PM on April 6, 2008


    Kiss my Front Butt!
    posted by mrzarquon at 5:23 PM on April 6, 2008


    Leela: I wonder why Dr. Zoidberg is acting this way. Out of all of us he always seemed the most normal.
    Dr. Zoidberg: I am normal! (Sexilly:) Amy, take of these rubber bands and I'll show you how normal I am.
    [Amy appears with her clothes torn and her hair cut off in some places.]
    Amy: Fool me seven times, shame on you. Fool me eight or more times, shame on me.
    posted by mrzarquon at 5:24 PM on April 6, 2008


    Also, walking up from the gym, i saw the three sages of capitol hill sitting outside a coffeeshop:

    a guy with short hair and a scruffy goatee, multiple ear piercings working on his macbook with a latte.

    another guy wearing a hoody, long shaggy hair, reading Nietzsche and drinking a beer.

    and another guy in a red sweat shirt smoking a big cigar.
    posted by mrzarquon at 5:29 PM on April 6, 2008


    It's not a question of can we so much as should we. Is it moral, this longboating?
    posted by cortex (staff) at 5:31 PM on April 6, 2008


    (and one turned to the other and said "look at the douche walking back from the gym listening to music on his iphone, he's probably going to go post about this on metafilter")
    posted by mrzarquon at 5:31 PM on April 6, 2008


    And a subquestion: assuming the answer is yes, is it kind of shamelessly weaksauce to do so by serially quoting from Futurama?
    posted by cortex (staff) at 5:32 PM on April 6, 2008


    (As contrasted with the unimpeachible practice of spreading spurious rhetorical questions across a series of short comments that could easily have been handled in one go.)
    posted by cortex (staff) at 5:33 PM on April 6, 2008


    Can the philosophy and Fry it up with risotto, mister. You can't even talk.
    posted by cgc373 at 5:49 PM on April 6, 2008


    I am all for interesting discussions. Since the answer is Yes, the use of futurama is just a vehicle to get the conversation started. As you know, futurama can be considered by some as prophetic, so by drawing the observers attention to various quotes, we can in some ways, draw about a discussion that will include various statements of truths, half truths, and a conjecture about your mother's bottom.
    posted by mrzarquon at 5:52 PM on April 6, 2008


    What happens in two hours?

    I'm just trying to keep us on pace.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 5:58 PM on April 6, 2008


    is it kind of shamelessly weaksauce to do so by serially quoting

    It's like keeping yourself awake while driving those last hours of your 12- hour shift of a crosscountry trip: whatever it takes.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 6:00 PM on April 6, 2008


    *sings along with Tom Jones at full volume*
    posted by LobsterMitten at 6:01 PM on April 6, 2008


    mrzarquon, your cats are cute. What's their best trick?
    posted by LobsterMitten at 6:07 PM on April 6, 2008


    Right now its intimidating the local foul and fauna outside the window. And one is trying to push this laptop off my lap so she can take its space.
    posted by mrzarquon at 6:11 PM on April 6, 2008


    Also, one is exceptionally good at chasing cat dancers.
    posted by mrzarquon at 6:12 PM on April 6, 2008


    FYI, i am currently watching a dvd of futurama episodes, so i may be providing running commentary as the episodes go buy. THIS IS NOT WEAKSAUCE.

    THIS IS FUTURAMA!
    posted by mrzarquon at 6:13 PM on April 6, 2008


    This is Jeopardy! (Not.)
    posted by cgc373 at 6:31 PM on April 6, 2008


    A Weird Al I hadn't seen : Bob... not a banana baton.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 7:11 PM on April 6, 2008


    A tour de force on par with "Washington Crossing the Delaware."
    posted by cgc373 at 7:35 PM on April 6, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Forgot to post more instrumental videos, so here's L'Amour Est Bleu from 1968.

    One interesting fact: It's the only Eurovision top 5 finishing song to ever hit #1 in the US.
    posted by dw at 7:49 PM on April 6, 2008


    And here's a really strange Japanese video of TSOP, which technically isn't a instrumental since the "do-do-dos" are vocals.
    posted by dw at 7:52 PM on April 6, 2008


    And here's an non-instrumental -- "Tonight I Have To Leave It" by the Shout Out Louds. Anyone else think they sound like the poppier side of the Cure?
    posted by dw at 7:54 PM on April 6, 2008


    OK, one more: My nominee for most underrated song of the 1990s, by the most underrated artist of the 1990s.
    posted by dw at 8:22 PM on April 6, 2008


    Ooo - like that Shout Out Louds, very Cureish.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 8:24 PM on April 6, 2008


    In 16 double ought,
    sangras sailed the land of Not.
    posted by Burhanistan at 8:25 PM on April 6, 2008


    hmm... I'm not sure Matthew Sweet was underrated. He was pretty highly rated by everyone I knew.
    posted by LobsterMitten at 8:27 PM on April 6, 2008


    Some nominations for most underrated band of the 90s from my music nerd S.O.:
    Tsunami
    The Inbreds
    The Poster Children
    Pee
    Mercury Rev
    Thinking Fellers
    The Swirlies
    Sloan (underrated in the US)

    (I started youtubing these but I have to actually get some work done tonight)
    posted by LobsterMitten at 8:44 PM on April 6, 2008


    Was Mudhoney a 90's band or a late-80's band?

    [gratuitous link to one of the top two cover songs of all time]
    posted by dersins at 10:14 PM on April 6, 2008


    [the other one]
    posted by dersins at 10:15 PM on April 6, 2008


    It just doesn't seem "Urgent" to add the 1605th comment.
    posted by cgc373 at 11:56 PM on April 6, 2008


    It seems a little sad that the best this thread can realistically aspire to is to be the second-longest metatalk thread in history.
    posted by dersins at 1:10 AM on April 7, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Second place is the first loser.
    posted by Dr. Curare at 4:16 AM on April 7, 2008


    Second mouse gets the cheese.
    posted by Dr. Curare at 4:16 AM on April 7, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Pi x 10^9 seconds in a century
    posted by Dr. Curare at 4:16 AM on April 7, 2008


    seconded
    posted by Dr. Curare at 4:16 AM on April 7, 2008


    Does history repeat itself, the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce? No, that's too grand, too considered a process. History just burps, and we taste again that raw-onion sandwich it swallowed centuries ago.
    Julian Barnes 1946- : A History of the World in 10½ Chapters (1989)
    posted by Dr. Curare at 4:16 AM on April 7, 2008


    Rabidplaybunny87: Okay, so my neighbors officially hate me
    GarbageStan23: why?
    Rabidplaybunny87: Well, me, david and andrew were having a bonfire in the backyard, and we were making s'mores and all... and suddenly we here sirens, and see a firetruck turn into the street in front of us.
    Rabidplaybunny87: So we all went running to see what was up, and our neigbor's house was on fire!
    GarbageStan23: oh shit!
    Rabidplaybunny87: Yeah, and when we got there, the wife was crying into her husbands arms, and we were just kinda standing there, and then she saw us, and then like for 10 seconds, gave us the dirtiest look ever
    Rabidplaybunny87: Turns out, we were still holding our sticks with marshmallows on it, watching the fire....
    Rabidplaybunny87: talk about bad timing...
    posted by Dr. Curare at 4:16 AM on April 7, 2008


    AY POETA
    Primero
    Que nada
    Me complace
    Enormisimamente
    Ser
    Un buen
    Poeta
    De segunda
    Del Tercer Mundo

    Efrain Huerta
    posted by Dr. Curare at 4:17 AM on April 7, 2008


    second:

    Following the first in an ordering or series:

    Going or proceeding or coming after in the same direction of the beginning unit in a series in a logical or comprehensible arrangement of separate elements or similar things happening one after another:

    Act of departing, or the steps that are taken in responding to crimes, or drawing spatially closer behind or in the rear in the S-Adenosyl-Methionine; line leading to a place or point of the the event consisting of the start of something; a single undivided whole in an arrangement of separate elements or similar things in accordance to the principles of logic or linguistically intelligible: A piece of music that has been adapted for performance by a particular set of voices or instruments of disjoined violent or severe weather or marked by correspondence or resemblance; movable possessions, a situation meant to be considered as art, not two or more. Behind or in the rear: any of various alternatives.

    (No cheating, punctuation added)
    posted by Dr. Curare at 4:38 AM on April 7, 2008


    Yes, that is how long it takes to check a bunch of Flash and Photoshop files into SVN, with free wifi, through 2 walls, on a VPN. How I envy the people who need only a command line and text fields to do their work.

    Anytime I see a vi/emacs war, I wish the participants were forced to work on any Adobe IDE for one day (yes, you can write your python in Dreamweaver, and your perl in Flash). That would teach them to shut up and enjoy.
    posted by Dr. Curare at 4:45 AM on April 7, 2008


    Dr. Curare, I was liking the Seconds thing you had going on there. (Frankenheimer spoilers in that link.)
    posted by cgc373 at 7:57 AM on April 7, 2008


    Dr. Curare: Anytime I see a vi/emacs war, I wish the participants were forced to work on any Adobe IDE for one day (yes, you can write your python in Dreamweaver, and your perl in Flash). That would teach them to shut up and enjoy.

    That is just cruel and unusual punishment. Speaking of work drudgery, did you know despair inc makes tshirts now?
    posted by mrzarquon at 9:37 AM on April 7, 2008


    Can we move on to Venture Bros. quotes now?

    ORPHEUS: Do not be too hasty in entering that room. I HAD TACO BELL FOR LUNCH!
    posted by dw at 9:58 AM on April 7, 2008


    Hey, are other folks getting the underpants gnome spam. I just got this, this morning:

    1. Think about your girlfriend
    2. Look attached details
    3. Visit our online store
    4. Buy out goods

    5. Profit? You ARE the BEST in BED!
    posted by mrzarquon at 10:06 AM on April 7, 2008


    Care for some Panda's Milk?
    posted by mrzarquon at 10:09 AM on April 7, 2008


    Look at y'all! I am so proud of you. I go away for the weekend and you're well past 1500 and GOING ALL THE WAY!

    I would have posted more over the weekend except for how I was afk and my phone cannot handle this massive, massive thread.

    But the biscuits/cats/Vikings/Costco talk were primo.
    posted by pineapple at 10:19 AM on April 7, 2008


    I have one of those headaches where it goes all the way down to the base of your skull and you start to worry a little bit that maybe your spine is going to detach around vertebra numbers one or two. And when I cough it hurts more, plus my abdomen is a little sore.

    I figure this is partly me still recovering from being sick; partly from just way too much coughing the last couple of days; and partly from spending like seven hours yesterday curled up on the couch shootin' zombies with my Wii Zapper.

    So the question is, should I eat this tuna sandwich?
    posted by cortex (staff) at 10:23 AM on April 7, 2008


    thank you pineapple
    you make this longboating fun
    you need an iphone
    posted by mrzarquon at 10:23 AM on April 7, 2008


    is meningitis?
    pain at back of head is sign
    see doc, no tuna
    posted by mrzarquon at 10:26 AM on April 7, 2008


    "Since the answer is Yes, the use of futurama is just a vehicle to get the conversation started."

    How do over-rated prog bands relate to Futurama?
    posted by klangklangston at 10:29 AM on April 7, 2008


    You go check on your stocks, and what do you get? An article reminding you that you need to close your accounts with WaMu already.

    I've been at WaMu for 12 years. In that time it went from Quirky converted S&L to Northwest consumer bank to Nation's largest thrift to Can't you get all your databases to work together alread? to Stop trying to sell me a mortgage and by the way I've been with your bank for 10 years why the hell you charging me that fee? to Poster child for everything wrong with the mortgage market to Get out NOW.

    So, time to start shifting to the credit union account, if I can ever find my credit union checkbook.
    posted by dw at 10:37 AM on April 7, 2008


    How do over-rated prog bands relate to Futurama?

    Huh? Overrated prog bands? When did someone mention Radiohead?
    posted by dersins at 10:44 AM on April 7, 2008


    Zombies eat brains. Though
    sometimes they just cause headaches.
    Shoot at your own risk.
    posted by rjs at 10:48 AM on April 7, 2008


    WaMu misspelled my sister's name on her mortgage. So she corrected it. Repeat the previous sentences four times for effect.
    posted by Skorgu at 10:50 AM on April 7, 2008


    dw- I've been thinking that also. I have access to a credit union through work, but I am temped to give BECU a shot. What have you heard of them, as a longer WA resident than me.
    posted by mrzarquon at 11:01 AM on April 7, 2008


    A few months ago, I stopped by a Bank of America to get some quarters for laundry. Two rolls, twenty dollar bill in hand, okay. Old routine. Have done it dozens of times. Clockwork.

    And the girl behind the counter asked me if I had an account there. Nope, thanks! Oh, she explained, as she gave me the quarters: she'd help me out just this once, but their new policy was to not give out quarters (or perhaps just not make change period, she didn't specify) for non-members. Ah, I said, and took my quarters and left and cursed BoA's name under my breath.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 11:09 AM on April 7, 2008


    Three weeks later, time for quarters. Skip BoA, hit a little credit union branch nearer my apartment. Wonder why I haven't done this instead previously. Credit unions hell yes. Fuck the BoA, CUs know where its at. I've been a CU member since high school, its just the way to be.

    Twenty in hand, ask for two rolls (holding up a little peace sign two-count to be clear that I do mean two and two exactly, as sometimes without thinking I'll ask for "a couple of" rolls and banks seem weirdly disinclined to guess about how much money you're talking about—unlike at least one McDonalds in Worcester, MA).

    And the girl behind the counter asked me if I had an account there.

    Nope.

    Oh, she explained, as she gave me the quarters: just this once, but new policy is not to do that for non-members. Huh, I said to her. Why the hell is that, I didn't ask. Seriously, what the fuck, I did not follow up with. My eyebrow didn't really agree with this path of restraint, and I think that some of my dark thoughts may have leaked out through that unruly caterpiller of the soul, but I took my quarters and left my twenty and went home to do laundry.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 11:10 AM on April 7, 2008


    And I stewed on that, in little bits, for the next three weeks. Bad enough, okay, that BoA is acting like a shitty big national bank outfit. Fine. They're asses. But for a credit union to ape the same behavior, the same weird Fuck You Buddy mentality of a corporation that cares less about being a part of the community than it does about getting its way and making some money...

    I felt betrayed, dammit, like a reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915 in an apocryphally attributed Emo Phillips joke: pushed off a cliff for being not quite the right brand of community-banking customer. Where did they get off? My nearest CU branch is across the damn river, don't make me spend forty five minutes of my evening going out there just to get some quarters so I can wash my damn clothes.

    And what the hell was the motivation for this policy? Was I supposed to be inspired to become a member of BoA, or of this credit union, because I was so pleased by their service to me as a non-member?

    And why were both of these places implementing this policy? Was there some sort of Quarters War going on on the street? Did quarters suddenly cost the banks $0.26 wholesale? Was the wrapping-coins-up-in-little-paper-sleeves union on strike? What, in other words, the fuck?
    posted by cortex (staff) at 11:11 AM on April 7, 2008


    So on laundry day a few weeks later, when the last ill-gotten quarters had run out, I walked into that credit union branch with all these thoughts in my mind, all the questions ready to burst out not via eyebrow semaphore but spoken in palin words from the actual piehole, challenges to both the implementation and the ethical dalliance that is even the conception of this absurd policy. I would be civil, yes, I would acknowledge that the clerk was just doing their job and that my beef was not with them, but lo, lo, reckoning was nonetheless at hand.

    Twenty on the counter. I'd like two rolls of quarters, please.

    And she totally gave me two rolls of quarters as soon as I asked for them, with a cheerful smile and not even a hint of a disclaimer about policies—past, present, or pending—regarding the disbursement of same to members or non-members or etc.

    Which, I mean, I like a good fit of righteous indignation as much as the next guy, but that was mostly what I was hoping for, and there hasn't been trouble since. But I haven't been back to the BoA more than once or twice since, because, seriously, fuck 'em.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 11:12 AM on April 7, 2008


    BECU is pretty solid, thanks to the "B" in its name standing for "Boeing." Not in the sense that it's part of Boeing (it's not), but that Boeing represents Old Seattle, the Rainier-drinking, blue tarp camping, REI basement shopping Seattle that is solidly middle-class and safe and out of place with the hipster and techie contingent in this town. It's the sort of stuff that Pemco is playing on in their awesome new ad campaign.

    I'm at WSECU, and it's been very meh so far. We took out a personal loan, and so far they've apparently sold us the wrong loan and then blew up our first payment by drawing on the wrong account. They've been very apologetic about it and fixed everything, but it's still annoying. I've been questioning whether jumping from WaMu to there is really that good an idea.
    posted by dw at 11:14 AM on April 7, 2008


    So, seriously, that quarters policy: what gives?
    posted by cortex (staff) at 11:15 AM on April 7, 2008


    I wish for iPhone.
    Sadly, cannot leave T-Mo:
    Boss pays all phone bills.
    posted by pineapple at 11:17 AM on April 7, 2008


    I saw 10,000BC on Saturday, and the folks in the theater kept shushing Amy and I for making fun of the inaccuracies (metal work? fucking pyramids?). I wished that I could have gone to the meetup, but I was sick and anti-social.
    posted by klangklangston at 11:19 AM on April 7, 2008


    cortex, I think it's just a case of banks reducing all non-profit services for non-members, across the board.
    posted by pineapple at 11:19 AM on April 7, 2008


    The reason I'm at WaMu, BTW, is because back in 1995 I tried to open an account with SeaFirst, which was owned by Bank of America, and pretty much got blown off by everyone there. WaMu, OTOH, was on me 30 seconds after I walked in the door.
    posted by dw at 11:23 AM on April 7, 2008


    "Huh? Overrated prog bands? When did someone mention Radiohead?"

    I'm glad someone else thinks that. I've nearly come to blows over just being disappointed with In Rainbows. I mean, I don't even actively dislike it, though I won't really listen to it again aside from a couple of songs. It's just kinda boring, and reminds me of REM's slide into dad rock. But you'd think that I'd shat out a puppy skull by not being effusive about the damned thing.

    On the other hand, Black Mountain is possible under-rated as a prog band, though not by much (as I've seen more and more rating of 'em lately).
    posted by klangklangston at 11:43 AM on April 7, 2008


    Ah, perhaps I wasn't seeing the general fiscal landscape for the quarters.

    But why the reversal? I suppose I should check with BoA at some point to see if they're still hoarding their quarters. Was this a bridge too far? The final straw? Did banks recieve complaints too loud and too numerous to ignore, and back off? On just the quarters? On everything? Did some daring local bank continue to change quarters for non-members—advertise, even, that modest but (in a downtown apartment culture) key service as a point of competition, forcing the rest back into the game out of deference to the invisible hand?

    Does the invisible hand ever handwash invisible delicates?
    posted by cortex (staff) at 11:44 AM on April 7, 2008


    And is the invisible hand related to Master Hand from Smash Brothers?

    And is Master Hand related to Wall Hand from Zelda?

    And what's with the glove on Master Hand, anyway? Has anybody considered that that could be the mutated disembodied hand of The Mouse Himself?
    posted by cortex (staff) at 11:46 AM on April 7, 2008


    Black Mountain is possible under-rated as a prog band, though not by much

    I love Black Mountain, but I'd never really thought of them as prog. Stoner rock, hell yeah. Prog, not so much. Super nice guys, though.
    posted by dersins at 12:18 PM on April 7, 2008


    I have one of those headaches where it goes all the way down to the base of your skull and you start to worry a little bit that maybe your spine is going to detach around vertebra numbers one or two. And when I cough it hurts more, plus my abdomen is a little sore.

    You have two, possibly three days to live. I'm glad you're spending them in the best possible way. We pass on, but the thread lives forever.
    posted by languagehat at 12:19 PM on April 7, 2008


    Gawd, Black Mountain blows. Gimme Pink Mountaintops any day.
    posted by carsonb at 12:32 PM on April 7, 2008


    I just hope that someone will dedicate comment number 2000 to my memory. It'd mean a lot to me if I was actually just faking my death and secretly refreshing the thread constantly, waiting for that to happen.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 12:35 PM on April 7, 2008


    There's no way there's even going to be a comment number 2000.

    Unless, of course, as a dying act someone were to recategorize this post as a metafilter gathering, allowing it to stay open for six months, and leaving ample time for discussion, followup and photos....
    posted by dersins at 12:50 PM on April 7, 2008


    I've heard bits of In Rainbows, and wasn't really impressed or distressed by it.

    The Decemberists are the closest thing we have to a prog rock band nowadays. Black Mountain sounds like Jim James and Wayne Coyne being in a band exchange program.
    posted by dw at 12:53 PM on April 7, 2008


    Is—is that dersins? Come closer, boy, I haven't much strength left. Closer, yes, I can't quite see you, it's the eyes, they're going, going, everything so dark now. Plus I'm having trouble seeing you, son, on account of your standing there in a dark cloud of QUITTER.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 12:55 PM on April 7, 2008 [1 favorite]


    "It was... *cough* *cough*... soap poisoning!"
    posted by shmegegge at 1:01 PM on April 7, 2008


    Live, Black Mountain's prog tendencies come to the fore—20 minute spacey synth jams and the like. I consider Hawkwind prog; I consider Black Mountain prog.
    posted by klangklangston at 1:05 PM on April 7, 2008


    No, radio.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 1:08 PM on April 7, 2008 [1 favorite]


    Ha! Every MeFi thread needs more Christmas Story. Less bands-I've-never-heard-of.

    Okay, your turn, let's play MeFiLibs.

    ______________     needs more     ________________,     less __________________.
    (some part of MetaFilter)                            (whatever)                            (whatever)
    posted by pineapple at 1:08 PM on April 7, 2008


    Gawd, Black Mountain blows. Gimme Pink Mountaintops any day.

    Are you high? You might as well prefer Lightning Dust.

    And the Decemberists would have to rock to be a prog rock band. They're more like the 21st century version of fuckin' Fairport Convention. Only more obnoxious. I'd rather sit through Caravan b-sides than listen to 'em.
    posted by klangklangston at 1:09 PM on April 7, 2008


    My wife and I went on a camping trip this past weekend (at Garner State Park, if you're wondering). I had plotted out a route that would take us on what I thought were bucolic backroads most of the way there. Nope. One freaking traffic jam after another. Gated communities under development much of the way there. We realized we were in what has become the outer ring of suburban development surrounding San Antionio.

    Once we got there is was beautiful. After hiking around on Saturday, we read. I started reading "Under the Banner of Heaven"—a book about fundamentalist Mormons. Incredibly weird stuff.

    Get home and see in the news today a raid on a FLDS compound about 100 miles from where we were camping. Man, that's freaky.

    It's not hard to imagine that in five years, the new-growth suburbs surrounding San Antonio will be butting right up against what are now remote encampments of people who are trying to avoid contact with mainstream society. Won't that be fun?
    posted by adamrice at 1:11 PM on April 7, 2008


    (at Garner State Park, if you're wondering)

    Do they still have up the "no bopping" signs?

    Is this thread showing up twice in Recent Activity for anyone else?
    posted by pineapple at 1:13 PM on April 7, 2008


    Live, Black Mountain's prog tendencies come to the fore—20 minute spacey synth jams and the like.

    I dunno, I haven't seen them since March 05, so I don't know what they're like now, but their space jams reminded more of this than, say, this.
    posted by dersins at 1:15 PM on April 7, 2008


    i am very upset that my banana is overripe (which would be great in a smoothie, not so much as the