Please don't ask July 19, 2008 1:24 PM Subscribe
I was in my local public library today and wanted to look up a thread about Paris that I'd seen in Ask Metafilter, so I got on one of the library's computers. I was surprised to find that the library blocks Ask MeFi. How common is this? How can I get the library to unblock it?
Also if you're talking about your particular public library (just going by your profile page) it looks like the reference area computers may hav filtering but the computer lab computers don't. The teen area is monitored with SurfControl which means if you wanted to unblock something there, you might be out of luck since they would just direct you to the adult comptuer lab. According to SurfControl's test-a-site page, AskMe is blocked because it's in the Blogs & Forums category.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 1:33 PM on July 19, 2008
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 1:33 PM on July 19, 2008
According to SurfControl's test-a-site page, AskMe is blocked because it's in the Blogs & Forums category.
Is that a category libraries generally block?
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 1:38 PM on July 19, 2008 [1 favorite]
Is that a category libraries generally block?
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 1:38 PM on July 19, 2008 [1 favorite]
jessamyn,
Yes, that's the right library. I just had a few spare minutes while my son was at karate, so I didn't pursue it at the time. It was one of the reference computers in the adult area. I didn't try to go the rest of MeFi.
posted by lukemeister at 1:39 PM on July 19, 2008
Yes, that's the right library. I just had a few spare minutes while my son was at karate, so I didn't pursue it at the time. It was one of the reference computers in the adult area. I didn't try to go the rest of MeFi.
posted by lukemeister at 1:39 PM on July 19, 2008
AskMe is blocked because it's in the Blogs & Forums category.
When you try to submit Metafilter as an ublocked site, you get this:
Thank you for your submission.
Your suggestion will be reviewed by our Threat Analysis & Research Team. If it meets our criteria, it will be added to our list within 1-2 business days.
If you test for the inclusion or amendment of your site and it has not been added, it does not fit our category criteria. You can customize your own product database to reflect these changes for your organization.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:43 PM on July 19, 2008
When you try to submit Metafilter as an ublocked site, you get this:
Thank you for your submission.
Your suggestion will be reviewed by our Threat Analysis & Research Team. If it meets our criteria, it will be added to our list within 1-2 business days.
If you test for the inclusion or amendment of your site and it has not been added, it does not fit our category criteria. You can customize your own product database to reflect these changes for your organization.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:43 PM on July 19, 2008
Is that a category libraries generally block?
No, not usually. There's library policies and then there's federal level legislation about filtering. CIPA [linked to above] basically says that libraries that receive federal funding (i.e. not all libraries by a long shot) have a legal obligation to filter out obscenity (I'm overgeneralizing but that's the gist) and so libraries who get money for internet connectivity or their phone lines have to install filters. There's the letter of the law [obscenity only] and then there's what some libraries perceive to be the spirit of the law which is that filtering is okay and possibly a good idea.
This is not the American Library Association's position. Their position is that filtering generally is a bad idea and even libraries than must filter legally still have an obligation to patrons to provide as much legally allowable content as possible.
Filtering companies prey on people's fears of the awful stuff that they "protect" people from in addition to the theoretical responsibilities that public institutions have to protect their citizens and patrons. As a result (and because a lot of these products are designed to and sold to school systems) they overfilter. There are categories for things like "underwear" which filters the Victoria's Secret website as well as sites that have a lot of swearing or that are anti-religion. Libraries or other institutions with either clueless or consorious IT staff may just turn the filters on the the default settings which are braoder than if you were narrowly targeting what must be filtered under CIPA.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 1:50 PM on July 19, 2008 [3 favorites]
No, not usually. There's library policies and then there's federal level legislation about filtering. CIPA [linked to above] basically says that libraries that receive federal funding (i.e. not all libraries by a long shot) have a legal obligation to filter out obscenity (I'm overgeneralizing but that's the gist) and so libraries who get money for internet connectivity or their phone lines have to install filters. There's the letter of the law [obscenity only] and then there's what some libraries perceive to be the spirit of the law which is that filtering is okay and possibly a good idea.
This is not the American Library Association's position. Their position is that filtering generally is a bad idea and even libraries than must filter legally still have an obligation to patrons to provide as much legally allowable content as possible.
Filtering companies prey on people's fears of the awful stuff that they "protect" people from in addition to the theoretical responsibilities that public institutions have to protect their citizens and patrons. As a result (and because a lot of these products are designed to and sold to school systems) they overfilter. There are categories for things like "underwear" which filters the Victoria's Secret website as well as sites that have a lot of swearing or that are anti-religion. Libraries or other institutions with either clueless or consorious IT staff may just turn the filters on the the default settings which are braoder than if you were narrowly targeting what must be filtered under CIPA.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 1:50 PM on July 19, 2008 [3 favorites]
I will use this opportunity to tell this story (again): I worked at a public library that was evaluating different filtering software. I got put on the evaluation team. So for a short time, my job duties included looking at porn at work.
posted by marxchivist at 2:02 PM on July 19, 2008
posted by marxchivist at 2:02 PM on July 19, 2008
I have to say that work is not the place where I'd want to look at porn.
Or a library, for that matter.
posted by Kattullus at 2:17 PM on July 19, 2008
Or a library, for that matter.
posted by Kattullus at 2:17 PM on July 19, 2008
Your suggestion will be reviewed by our Threat Analysis & Research Team.
Your suggestion will be reviewed by TART? We're supposed to take this seriously?
posted by grouse at 3:17 PM on July 19, 2008 [5 favorites]
Your suggestion will be reviewed by TART? We're supposed to take this seriously?
posted by grouse at 3:17 PM on July 19, 2008 [5 favorites]
Yes, they have a special team of TARTs whose services you can retain.
posted by lukemeister at 3:35 PM on July 19, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by lukemeister at 3:35 PM on July 19, 2008 [1 favorite]
The Anaheim Public Library also filters AskMe.
posted by klangklangston at 3:53 PM on July 19, 2008
posted by klangklangston at 3:53 PM on July 19, 2008
As a slight aside. I used AskMe the other day answer a reference question. The person wanted to find how to easily convert a dvd to watch it on an iPod.
posted by Razzle Bathbone at 4:30 PM on July 19, 2008
posted by Razzle Bathbone at 4:30 PM on July 19, 2008
If you don't have any luck with the TARTs, try your suggestion with the Site Legality & Uniformity Team.
posted by taz at 4:30 PM on July 19, 2008 [3 favorites]
posted by taz at 4:30 PM on July 19, 2008 [3 favorites]
Nope, I strongly suggest you check with the Public Information Management Personnel first.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:42 PM on July 19, 2008
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:42 PM on July 19, 2008
But Taz, if you resort to a SLUT then you just end up with a nasty dose of Contested License and Access Protocals. And those things take months to clear up
posted by Razzle Bathbone at 4:44 PM on July 19, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Razzle Bathbone at 4:44 PM on July 19, 2008 [1 favorite]
Kattullus writes "Or a library, for that matter."
You'd think but it is surprisingly common.
posted by Mitheral at 4:49 PM on July 19, 2008
You'd think but it is surprisingly common.
posted by Mitheral at 4:49 PM on July 19, 2008
Yep, I unfilter people's computers every day at our library (anyone over 18 can ask to have their machine unfiltered). Everyone hates it-- patrons, staff, porn companies...
In my state (Kentucky-- and others, from what I hear), if a library receives funding from some governing body (I'm from out of state and new on the job, so I'm not quite up to speed on such things), it must use filtering software. Thanks Christian lawmakers!
And Mitheral is right-- people are pretty stoopid when it comes to not doing stuff like looking at a porn in a library. You think you're all smooth, turning your monitor so it's more difficult for others to see what you're viewing? Red flag!
posted by Rykey at 5:27 PM on July 19, 2008
In my state (Kentucky-- and others, from what I hear), if a library receives funding from some governing body (I'm from out of state and new on the job, so I'm not quite up to speed on such things), it must use filtering software. Thanks Christian lawmakers!
And Mitheral is right-- people are pretty stoopid when it comes to not doing stuff like looking at a porn in a library. You think you're all smooth, turning your monitor so it's more difficult for others to see what you're viewing? Red flag!
posted by Rykey at 5:27 PM on July 19, 2008
Everyone hates it...
Everyone hates the fact that we filter, that is...
posted by Rykey at 5:27 PM on July 19, 2008
Everyone hates the fact that we filter, that is...
posted by Rykey at 5:27 PM on July 19, 2008
Having busted a lot of people for looking at porn in the library, I think that almost all of 'em are people who don't have computers at home (or don't want to use their home computers to look at porn); there are also some exhibitionists, but that's a tiny group by comparison.
posted by box at 5:30 PM on July 19, 2008
posted by box at 5:30 PM on July 19, 2008
I'd bet they just installed the software and had it block everything, why on earth would a library block "blogs and forums"?
posted by delmoi at 6:08 PM on July 19, 2008
posted by delmoi at 6:08 PM on July 19, 2008
Something something browsing something something check out something something stacks.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 6:32 PM on July 19, 2008
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 6:32 PM on July 19, 2008
delmoi writes "why on earth would a library block 'blogs and forums'?"
Speaking specifically we had a discussion last week where a count was made of how many times nigger, fuck, and cunt appeared on meta filter. And the whole pissing elephant thing. More generally there is quite a bit of NSFWish discussion here that those who advocate blocking probably wouldn't want to have their kids exposed to.
posted by Mitheral at 7:23 PM on July 19, 2008 [1 favorite]
Speaking specifically we had a discussion last week where a count was made of how many times nigger, fuck, and cunt appeared on meta filter. And the whole pissing elephant thing. More generally there is quite a bit of NSFWish discussion here that those who advocate blocking probably wouldn't want to have their kids exposed to.
posted by Mitheral at 7:23 PM on July 19, 2008 [1 favorite]
Oh, I've seen people browse porn in libraries and at work, but it's not my bag, much like, say, lemonfisting.
posted by Kattullus at 8:17 PM on July 19, 2008
posted by Kattullus at 8:17 PM on July 19, 2008
More generally there is quite a bit of NSFWish discussion here that those who advocate blocking probably wouldn't want to have their kids exposed to.
"I think I might be gay but my parents don't approve. How can I discuss this with them." That, frankly, is what a chunk of concerned parents are more concerned by. Children thinking unapproved thoughts.
posted by rodgerd at 9:15 PM on July 19, 2008 [1 favorite]
"I think I might be gay but my parents don't approve. How can I discuss this with them." That, frankly, is what a chunk of concerned parents are more concerned by. Children thinking unapproved thoughts.
posted by rodgerd at 9:15 PM on July 19, 2008 [1 favorite]
SurfControl, ignore Rodgerd, we're all about the conformity here, really.
posted by BrotherCaine at 11:14 PM on July 19, 2008
posted by BrotherCaine at 11:14 PM on July 19, 2008
God forbid a child learn that elephants pee!
posted by five fresh fish at 8:34 AM on July 20, 2008
posted by five fresh fish at 8:34 AM on July 20, 2008
Speaking specifically we had a discussion last week where a count was made of how many times nigger, fuck, and cunt appeared on meta filter. And the whole pissing elephant thing. More generally there is quite a bit of NSFWish discussion here that those who advocate blocking probably wouldn't want to have their kids exposed to.
Sure, but that doesn't explain why they would block "blogs and forums" as a category of which metafilter is a part.
posted by delmoi at 1:19 PM on July 20, 2008
Sure, but that doesn't explain why they would block "blogs and forums" as a category of which metafilter is a part.
posted by delmoi at 1:19 PM on July 20, 2008
Sure, but that doesn't explain why they would block "blogs and forums" as a category of which metafilter is a part.
Compared to the average not-massively-modded forum, metafilter is a prim and proper place of propriety. That this is actually a good reason for censorship is another matter entirely, but if you wanted to pick broad categories of sites likely to have Bad and Naughty Content, forums are actually a pretty good grouping to start with.
posted by Tomorrowful at 1:33 PM on July 20, 2008
Compared to the average not-massively-modded forum, metafilter is a prim and proper place of propriety. That this is actually a good reason for censorship is another matter entirely, but if you wanted to pick broad categories of sites likely to have Bad and Naughty Content, forums are actually a pretty good grouping to start with.
posted by Tomorrowful at 1:33 PM on July 20, 2008
Ahh, this is one of those two-minute mysteries, isn't it.
lukemeister said: It was one of the reference computers in the adult area.
The library says: These computers offer limited Internet access with sites reviewed and recommended by library professionals.
posted by Saucy Intruder at 3:58 AM on July 21, 2008
lukemeister said: It was one of the reference computers in the adult area.
The library says: These computers offer limited Internet access with sites reviewed and recommended by library professionals.
posted by Saucy Intruder at 3:58 AM on July 21, 2008
> Sure, but that doesn't explain why they would block "blogs and forums" as a category of which metafilter is a part.
Keep in mind, that's the category that 4chan would probably be put in. That's why it gets blocked.
Metafilter (and most blogs, and most forums) is just collateral damage, a victim of being tarred with a very broad brush.
posted by Kadin2048 at 10:32 AM on July 23, 2008
Keep in mind, that's the category that 4chan would probably be put in. That's why it gets blocked.
Metafilter (and most blogs, and most forums) is just collateral damage, a victim of being tarred with a very broad brush.
posted by Kadin2048 at 10:32 AM on July 23, 2008
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posted by jessamyn (staff) at 1:29 PM on July 19, 2008