lame delete July 9, 2010 12:04 PM   Subscribe

This post's deletion sucks.

Judging from the guy's other questions, he's having a tough time and is in a tough situation. I don't think he was being judgy or trying to make up a disorder. He's obviously a confused kid who just used a stupid slang term to describe what he's going through.

If anything should have been deleted, it was some of the crap responses given.
posted by Cat Pie Hurts to MetaFilter-Related at 12:04 PM (167 comments total) 1 user marked this as a favorite

Seconded.
posted by reductiondesign at 12:05 PM on July 9, 2010


The question should stand, but it should be modified.

I've never heard of HOCD, but I believe the OP is talking about Pure O, which is a known illness.
posted by Sloop John B at 12:06 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]


(sorry, Pure O)
posted by Sloop John B at 12:07 PM on July 9, 2010


this deletion was nothing short of antglyphobic.
posted by fallacy of the beard at 12:10 PM on July 9, 2010


I should maybe change the wording on the deletion, but that user has now asked basically four variants of the same question which is "I have issues with my sexuality and I'm trying to figure them out without basically talking to anyone who is not on the internet." We're okay with people asking the occasional variants on a question, but when you get the feeling that someone is using AskMe to substitute for any other real-life assistance, or not really taking any advice, it starts to be a strange community problem. People were telling the guy in the last thread "you need to stop asking the same question" and I don't really see that as having sunk in, at all.

OK, I changed the deletion reason, I think you're right about that.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 12:11 PM on July 9, 2010 [13 favorites]


He's asked essentially the same question nearly every week for about six weeks. He clearly needs help, and the kind of help he needs is not the kind Metafilter can give him.
posted by rtha at 12:11 PM on July 9, 2010 [23 favorites]


Well, look. MeFi has had a long history of people who ask starkly left-of-center questions in an attempt to get their heads around problematic aspects of their lives. Yes, the kid is clearly having a rough time, and I think he's posting in good faith, but I also don't think AskMe is quite the right resource. We're good on "proof-of-concept" questions, but when someone is strongly trending towards using the site as a sort of composite therapy, I think that should be a point of discussion between that person and the mods.

All that said, HOCD is regressive bullshit on the order of "gay panic" and it took every fiber of my being to be civil about that in the post itself. I hope he finds a helping hand who can disabuse him of that quackery ASAP.
posted by mykescipark at 12:13 PM on July 9, 2010


Look, I'm telling you, as someone who's suffered from Pure O, that's what this guy has. Believe me.
posted by Sloop John B at 12:16 PM on July 9, 2010 [3 favorites]


Look, I'm telling you, as someone who's suffered from Pure O, that's what this guy has. Believe me.

Same here (my brief answer reflects that), but I was unaware of his posting history, and it seems like his questions are almost a form of obsessing right now, and continuing to indulge in it isn't doing him any good.
posted by xingcat at 12:32 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]


I don't think repetitive questions that we can't really answer are a good use of this community. I agree with the deletion.
posted by desjardins at 12:33 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]


The question should stand, but it should be modified.

Honestly, we do that sort of thing only rarely on the whole, in part because it's very hard to treat an askme as a moving target in terms of what it is that folks in the thread are vs. were responding to. It happens but it's not by far the first tool we're going to reach for.

When we do do it, it's usually an attempt to fix a one-off thing where something went really wrong with an otherwise okay situation; this isn't like that at all. This is a case where we've got someone who seems to keep coming back to the same place to ask a variation on the same thing without acknowledging or incorporating what he's been told previously by folks. After several rounds of that, it's not an "oops, you phrased that badly" thing so much as a "we need to work on how you're using askme" thing.
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:35 PM on July 9, 2010


From the wikipedia link:his might lead a person to continually surf the web, reading numerous articles on defining psychopathy. This reassurance-seeking ritual will, ironically, provide no further clarification and could exacerbate the intensity of the search for the answer.

By trying to help this guy each time he makes a new question, we may only be fuelling his obsessiveness? Sounds like deletion is the right idea.
posted by muddgirl at 12:36 PM on July 9, 2010 [4 favorites]


The internet cannot help this kid. We cannot prevent him from feeling his dick up in public to ascertain if the person next to him is causing a 13.5% increase in hardness or a 15% increase. The only thing that will help that is access to a trained professional and some medication.
posted by crankylex at 12:38 PM on July 9, 2010 [3 favorites]


Wow, I'd never heard of Pure O before, but that Wikipedia article sounds exactly like what antgly is experiencing (and itself mentions "homosexual OCD," which may be where he got the term). I don't have much to say about the deletion, as there are good points in favor of and against it, but I really feel for antgly and Sloop John B. It must be difficult to unstick your brain from a subject like "am I really, really, for sure gay?" after weeks of obsessing about it. This isn't the kind of issue the internet can fix; it needs to be addressed by a professional, in person.

I'd advise a two-step process: First, "come out of the closet" as someone with Pure O, and don't mention sexuality (especially in a repressive circumstance like antgly's). Get on the path to treatment and make sure your parent(s) is/are aware of the situation. Second, after those you love understand the psychological issues you're experiencing, then you can come out of the second closet. It will be easier with the foundation laid, providing some context so people don't think you're just confused or a casual worrywart.
posted by The Winsome Parker Lewis at 12:39 PM on July 9, 2010


This guy clearly needs professional help and it may well be that the obviously well-intentioned answers that people are giving him are creating a feedback loop making things worse for him. This has gone way beyond a kid questioning his sexuality.
posted by ob at 12:52 PM on July 9, 2010


Soo....favorite homosexual cuisine recipe?
posted by new brand day at 12:52 PM on July 9, 2010 [4 favorites]


Can a nearby gay/bisexual/adventurous male mefite just offer to swing by and have sex with him and see if that answers any questions?
posted by andoatnp at 12:53 PM on July 9, 2010 [4 favorites]


I agree. I was just going to post to Metatalk about it, but see I was beaten to it. This poor guys excessive posting was just a form of his disease. He needs to see a therapist, so he can get a real diagnosis, and AskMe should be guiding him there.
posted by HabeasCorpus at 12:59 PM on July 9, 2010


AskMe should be guiding him there.

That was the recommendation from each of the previous three posts on the subject. How useful is telling him for the fourth or fifth time to go see a therapist going to be?
posted by crankylex at 1:04 PM on July 9, 2010


new brand day: I love me a smooth, gay martini.
posted by slogger at 1:05 PM on July 9, 2010


He's heartbreaking.
posted by Houyhnhnm at 1:06 PM on July 9, 2010 [5 favorites]


All that said, HOCD is regressive bullshit on the order of "gay panic" and it took every fiber of my being to be civil about that in the post itself. I hope he finds a helping hand who can disabuse him of that quackery ASAP.
posted by mykescipark at 12:13 PM on July 9 [+] [!]


This is a bullshit comment.I hope I can clear up a little bit about what OCD is for the Metafilter community (who I love, but who often misunderstand the disease).

Obsessive Compulsive Disorder is simply an anxiety disorder that involves both obsessions (intrusive, frequent and repetitive fears, including intrusive mental images), and compulsions (a need to act or think in a certain way in order to escape the troubling obsessions). People with OCD tend to be extremely scared or fearful about certain topics that others think are silly or unrealistic. The public is mostly familiar with OCD via the media (think "Monk"), and so the stereotype has become the OCD handwasher, the person scared of germs and concerned with cleanliness. There are certainly people with OCD who are terrified of germs, but that is only one small subset of people with OCD. We're talking about Homosexual OCD.

While Homosexual OCD ("HOCD") isn't medically defined, it is used by the OCD community as shorthand to describe a certain subset of "pure OCD". Pure OCD is just another nickname for OCD that involves obsessions and compulsions that are entirely internal. Almost all professionals recognize that Obsessive Compulsive Disorder can be present without manifest phsyical compulsions. While some people who have OCD turn lights on and off, check the locks compulsively, clean their hands all the time, many others do not have physical rituals at all. Rather these "Pure O's" have mental rituals: they go over lists, or review past events, or "test themselves" by creating mental images or or thoughts. Often times they will engage in "reassurance seeking", by asking, over and over again, for advice and clarification on the same subject (like, posting repeatedly on metafilter, or in my case, asking my girlfriend constant questions).

If you suffered from HOCD, for example, then you might feel the need to repeatedly imagine a glistening, naked man in your bed, beckoning you to come hither. You would repeatedly try to imagine the hottest, gayest scene you could, and then test yourself to see whether you were aroused. If you thought you were aroused, or even thought you might have been aroused for just a moment, you would FLIP OUT and likely repeat the process over again. You would repeat and repeat this, just so you could be certain that you were not gay. You might even end up repeating this little mental contest with yourself so often that you became physically tired and emotionally drained. These mental rituals are repeated again and again and again, because the sufferer never feels certain about his deepest fears. In fact, he can't. People with OCD have brains that are wired differently: scans show that OCD sufferers have overactive connections between the amygdala (the part of the brain responsible for emotional learning and fear based response, among other things) and the prefrontal cortex (responsible for controlling socially correct behavior).

Other common fears are things like fear of harming others (this is what I struggled with), fear of harming oneself, fear of committing blasphemy or a sin, magical thinking (imagine if you thought stepping on a crack might actually break your mother's back), etc. The number of things you can worry about is literally infinite. OCD isn't particularly defined by what you are worrying about, and often simply focuses on exactly what you think is the most inappropriate thing you can do, say, or be. OCD, in this regard, tends to vary wildly across cultural groups and differing moral values. For instance, 'fear of blasphemy' is significantly more prevalent in among Muslim sufferers, where insulting one's diety is taken as a serious offense. (see "The Imp of The Mind" by Lee Baer). So the point is OCD will take whatever form is does based on the surrounding social circumstances. If you grow up in a sexually repressed community that spews a lot of hatred about "teh gays", then yeah, someone with OCD is going to end up worrying about being gay. That's probably one of the worst things you can be labeled in that kind of town. So in conclusion OCD is defined by the pattern of worry one engages in, and not the thought itself. It's a repetitious interaction of obsessive thought and compulsive response, and the obsessive fears are often based on social values. So no, it's not "gay panic". Its a mental disease that can be terribly crippling if left untreated. You should read a little more about the disease before you get all pissy about it.
posted by HabeasCorpus at 1:07 PM on July 9, 2010 [201 favorites]


I feel badly for him, because he is clearly struggling. But the way he is using AskMe doesn't seem to be helping, either -- the central message back to him has consistently been to find someone competent and non-judgmental to talk to and help explore this. For whatever reason, he doesn't seem to be choosing that path, and is instead using AskMe to scratch that obsessive itch.
posted by Forktine at 1:09 PM on July 9, 2010


If I'm understanding Pure O, even having lots of gay sex with gay men, isn't going to answer this question for this guy. Nor is offering any kind of "diagnostic", as he'll find a way to disbelieve the results.

I'm pretty sure that no answer in that askme would have helped him.

If you're reading this, get your family GP to refer you a therapist for "anxiety" (totally reasonable/non-suspicious for a 19y/o to have). Or, wait till classes start, and hop on some therapy.
posted by fontophilic at 1:11 PM on July 9, 2010


For whatever reason, he doesn't seem to be choosing that path, and is instead using AskMe to scratch that obsessive itch.

Actually he says later that problem is that he lives with homophobic and controlling parents, so he's having trouble finding any other source of contact about the issue. That's the heart breaking part. A couple of conversations with someone would probably ease his mind greatly, if he could find the space.
posted by new brand day at 1:12 PM on July 9, 2010 [5 favorites]


You mean I've been drinking smooth gay martinis all these years? I though I was lovingly sipping smooth straight martinis. This really makes me reevaluate myself.
posted by mostlymartha at 1:14 PM on July 9, 2010


I could use a smooth gay martini right about now.
posted by HabeasCorpus at 1:16 PM on July 9, 2010


Oh, I have that. It's called bisexuality.

/cruelly insensitive dismissal of real problems
posted by Sys Rq at 1:17 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]


Seems to me, if you're worried that you might be gay, you probably have homosexual tendencies. And if you have parents who are over-controlling and outwardly homophobic, then worrying that you're gay is going to make you a tad crazy.

I feel for the kid, but he really needs to get out of his parents' house and start living his own life. I'd bet that a lot of his anxiety dissipates once he does that. I know that solution probably carries with it its own set of difficulties, but right now, he's living his own version of pre-Stonewall 1950s oppression, and he'd be well served by moving himself into the 21st century somehow.
posted by hippybear at 1:23 PM on July 9, 2010


Smooth gay martinis seem to be a lot like straight martinis except that they appear to allow the possibility that a martini could be made from vodka.
posted by ob at 1:34 PM on July 9, 2010


hippybear: He's worried he might be straight, if I read things right.
posted by floam at 1:37 PM on July 9, 2010


Seemed like an appropriate deletion to me.

/gay person
posted by serazin at 1:39 PM on July 9, 2010


What is boils down to is that AskMe can't solve every problem, especially one where the solutions are difficult, complex and require the asker to do all the work.
posted by GuyZero at 1:44 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]


Smooth gay martinis ...allow the possibility that a martini could be made from vodka.

What a bucket of cocks. That's like saying a martini shouldn't have Vermouth in it or something.
posted by bonehead at 1:45 PM on July 9, 2010


ob, drinking a vodka martini isn't gay, it's just stupid.
posted by Mister_A at 1:45 PM on July 9, 2010 [4 favorites]


I am not happy with the deletion. I don't think it was bad, but I'm not happy with it.

We spent the other questions suggesting that he has OCD and needs help, okay, fine. Now he can't ask a question about OCD?

What habeuscorpus posted just now would have been VERY helpful to him.

No, it's not a replacement for getting therapy, but psychoeducation is an important part of the treatment for many (if not every) disorder out there. You have to know what you're dealing with in order to accept it and understand treatment.

That's all he was trying to do.
posted by internet fraud detective squad, station number 9 at 1:49 PM on July 9, 2010 [12 favorites]


ob, drinking a vodka martini isn't gay, it's just stupid.

I agree and the pedant in me was incensed.
posted by ob at 1:50 PM on July 9, 2010


ob, drinking a vodka martini isn't gay, it's just stupid.

WHAT!??!?!?

Seriously, that's how I drink a martini. I don't mind my favorite cocktail being called gay, but stupid? That I will not stand.

But seriously, what's wrong with a vodka martini? I've heard other trashing it as well, and I don't get it. Gin tastes weird.
posted by Afroblanco at 2:08 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]


Gin martinis and vodka martinis are both awesome and cool hth
posted by threetoed at 2:09 PM on July 9, 2010


ob: "I agree and the pedant in me was incensed."

* waggles eyebrows *

Anyway, surely a gay martini would be made with, I dunno, champagne.
posted by boo_radley at 2:13 PM on July 9, 2010


Afroblanco, listen. Sorry I got to break it down so harsh for you. Gin is the lifeblood of the gods. Vodka is for sorority girls to mix with Hawaiian Punch so they can get drunk without tasting it. A martini, by definition, is a cocktail containing both gin and vermouth. A martini with vodka is like a BLT made with beets, lamb, and tea leaves. Sure, I could call it a BLT, but it wouldn't be a real BLT.
posted by mostlymartha at 2:15 PM on July 9, 2010 [40 favorites]


The problem with OCD, if that's antgly's issue, is that a lot of compulsive behaviors center on looking for reassurance-- but getting reassurance doesn't actually stop the obsession. The only people who can realistically set antgly on the right path are in-person professionals with training in anxiety disorders, who can evaluate the situation and recommend treatments (or tell him "that's not your problem, it's actually this and you should see these other guys").

I've got a family history of OCD myself, and accidentally got it medicated when I was treated for migraines. It is a revelation to suddenly be able to stop thinking (20 or 30 times a day) that my husband's going to drop dead, to have it not enter my mind at all. I didn't think it was actually possible to stop it-- I'd been treated for depression and anxiety for a long time when I was younger and failed every single medication. Therapy took the edge off but didn't stop the underlying obsessive stuff.

Dude deserves a chance to get that help and make that jump, but he's never going to make it if he keeps looking back and checking with us instead of making the real-world connection people have suggested to him before. I've mentioned it to him, other people have mentioned it, and people who want to reach out to him have MeMail for it now.
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 2:16 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]


> Afroblanco, listen. Sorry I got to break it down so harsh for you. Gin is the lifeblood of the gods. Vodka is for sorority girls to mix with Hawaiian Punch so they can get drunk without tasting it.

The difference between vodka and gin (distillation quality control being equal) is quite trivial, and any affected preference for one or the other is the shallowest of aesthetics.
posted by Burhanistan at 2:21 PM on July 9, 2010 [4 favorites]


Oh. what. ever.

And I suppose I should feel bad for liking white wine, too, huh?
posted by Afroblanco at 2:21 PM on July 9, 2010


Vodka martinis are fine. Vodka martinis becoming the de facto "standard" martini variety is an insult to the history of booze.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 2:21 PM on July 9, 2010 [4 favorites]


There's nothing wrong with a vodka martini.

Except calling it a martini.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 2:21 PM on July 9, 2010 [8 favorites]


The difference between vodka and gin (distillation quality control being equal) is quite trivial,

What? Gin tastes like juniper berries. We had a juniper bush outside my house growing up. I never wanted to drink it.
posted by Afroblanco at 2:21 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]


The difference between vodka and gin (distillation quality control being equal) is quite trivial.

Fie on this.
posted by cortex (staff) at 2:24 PM on July 9, 2010 [8 favorites]


The only thing that will help that is access to a trained professional and some medication.

I don't think recommending a hooker and some Viagra is actually the way to go here.
posted by Justinian at 2:26 PM on July 9, 2010 [4 favorites]


The difference between vodka and gin (distillation quality control being equal) is quite trivial

And yeah, what? Gin tastes like drinking a freaking Christmas decoration.
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 2:26 PM on July 9, 2010 [10 favorites]


There's nothing wrong with a vodka martini.

Except calling it a martini.


Good thing it's called "a vodka martini", so you won't get confused.

Oh no! Turkey bacon doesn't actually come from a pig! Soy burgers aren't made of meat! What is this world coming to?
posted by muddgirl at 2:26 PM on July 9, 2010 [13 favorites]


Fine, fine. Put little flavorings in your vodka and then it's basically gin. Very thin distinction to be making with clear liquor.
posted by Burhanistan at 2:27 PM on July 9, 2010


I don't think one of us knows what "trivial" means.
posted by yhbc at 2:28 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]


Good thing it's called "a vodka martini", so you won't get confused.

Well, it's a shame then that some bartenders do.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 2:30 PM on July 9, 2010


And I suppose I should feel bad for liking white wine, too, huh?

Wuss.

I kid, I kid. In fact, some of my best friends...
posted by Forktine at 2:31 PM on July 9, 2010


Look, just because I like my wine to be crisp, smooth, and refreshing does not mean I should be treated like a social outcast.

We have feelings too, okay?
posted by Afroblanco at 2:33 PM on July 9, 2010


Vodka + vermouth = a perfectly fine cocktail called a kangeroo. Stump your bartender tonight!
posted by EvaDestruction at 2:35 PM on July 9, 2010


Neither HOCD or Pure-O are recognized diagnoses. OCD is obsessions OR compulsions, not necessarily both- you could just obsess and have OCD. Posting on AskMe when he knows people are just going to tell him to see a therapist and checking to see if he is aroused could both fall under compulsions, anyway.

He can't diagnose himself with OCD, and neither can we. It doesn't even matter what he has- he needs to see a therapist even if he doesn't have a mental disorder. It shouldn't make us any more concerned for him if he has a disorder that we can put a name on, since he would still need help even if he didn't (and more than we can give him).
posted by emilyd22222 at 2:37 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]


And I suppose I should feel bad for liking white wine, too, huh?

Heh. I went out for drinks the other night with a long-ago ex, who I love and adore in many ways and was very happy to see again after too many years of only being in touch online. The second I ordered a glass of white wine I could see his eyebrow twitch ever-so-slightly, and he made just the subtlest of sniffing noises accompanied by just a soupcon of a smirk, at which point he very pointedly ordered some red which, as he said knowingly to the waiter, would go much better with our appetizers. And all I could think of while sipping my sauvignon blanc was SWEET JEBUS THANK YOU FOR BREAKING US UP ALL THOSE YEARS AGO.
posted by scody at 2:38 PM on July 9, 2010 [43 favorites]


I thought that gin was just pine sol put through a couple extra processes. Guess I should go post in the "you were doing it wrong" thread...
posted by greekphilosophy at 2:41 PM on July 9, 2010 [3 favorites]


EvaDestruction has it. The variant of a Martini made with Vodka is a Kangaroo.
posted by ob at 2:49 PM on July 9, 2010


But seriously, what's wrong with a vodka martini?

Nothing, as long as it gets you where you wanna go.
posted by marxchivist at 2:56 PM on July 9, 2010


Gin tastes like drinking a freaking Christmas decoration.

You say that like it's a bad thing.
posted by jjray at 3:08 PM on July 9, 2010


I don't understand how...

(1) asking if a certain conjectural variety of OCD is a real thing, because you're concerned you might be suffering from it...

...gets deleted, but...

(2) an open-ended call for anecdotes of things people did wrong for a long time in their lives before they learned how to do them right...

...does not get deleted. (Yes, I know there was a MeTa about the latter.) Also, comments about taking a long time to appreciate the coolness of various logos were not deleted, even though they weren't answers to the question.

Which one of those two questions was a better instance of a "problem to be solved"?
posted by Jaltcoh at 3:24 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]


gin blah blah blah

vodka blah blah blah


Now let's talk about cilantro.
posted by desjardins at 3:26 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]


desjardins: "Now let's talk about cilantro."

Would you like to try my cilantro-infused gin?
posted by boo_radley at 3:35 PM on July 9, 2010


Would you like to try my cilantro-infused gin?

I actually did a summery sort of drink a while back that was muddled pineapple, serrano chili, and cilantro with gin, simple syrup, and soda water. It was lovely, fruity but not too sweet with a bit of spicy bite and a distinct taste of both gin and cilantro.
posted by mostlymartha at 3:44 PM on July 9, 2010 [15 favorites]


"Dude deserves a chance to get that help and make that jump, but he's never going to make it if he keeps looking back and checking with us instead of making the real-world connection people have suggested to him before. I've mentioned it to him, other people have mentioned it, and people who want to reach out to him have MeMail for it now."

Here's the thing--what you just shared about your experience with OCD, getting reassurance, all of this--would have been very valuable to him in that thread. This is the kind of stuff that would help him figure out what is going on. That is why he asked about OCD. He doesn't know anything about it or if it applies to his situation.

In other threads, people dropped vague "go to a therapist" and "might be OCD" (including me) but it's nowhere near as helpful as the kind of information we're getting here, in specific response to a question about OCD.
posted by internet fraud detective squad, station number 9 at 3:49 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]


asking if a certain conjectural variety of OCD is a real thing, because you're concerned you might be suffering from it...

Would work better if it wasn't the latest in an aggressive string of repeat posts by an essentially non-responsive asker. This didn't happen in null context, nor is there any kind of sense in an apples-to-apples comparison between it and that other thread.

I don't think there's a simple solution here, but I'm more than happy to talk to antgly about ways to maybe try and approach this going forward in a way that doesn't feel like a wheel-spinning misuse of askme, and help him put together a specific framing of whatever his core question is in a way that may work well. "But that other thread didn't get deleted" has nothing to do with it, however.
posted by cortex (staff) at 3:52 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]


I worry that after antgly comes out, he's just going to turn into cscott.
posted by Tin Man at 3:56 PM on July 9, 2010 [4 favorites]


But to be serious, I do feel for the guy, because he's obsessing over and over about this and he seems to be alone for the summer. I felt the same way during the summer after my first year of college -- living at home with my parents, confused about my sexuality, nobody to turn to.

Maybe this will be the push for him to seek real help instead of just asking variations of the same question on AskMeFi. He lives a short ferry ride away from the gay capital of the world, and he should take advantage of that.
posted by Tin Man at 3:56 PM on July 9, 2010


wheel-spinning

What a trip. This was exactly the term my psychologist used when I was being treated for Pure O.

I really do think AskMe could have been helpful to this poor guy. I think I'll just drop him a note.

BTW - Pure O is real, and reading about it on the internet can be enormously helpful. I know that when I finally found out what I had - something that my original (ineffective) therapist had absolutely no clue about - it was a huge weight off my back, inspired me to seek out a new therapist, and set into motion the thought processes that ultimately led to my recovery. And I would have never found out about it had I not decided to research it myself as opposed to trusting my original (ineffective) therapist.

If you do a search on OCD, you'll find a lot of material on the standard forms of OCD (checking, handwashing, counting). You will not find out about Pure O unless you do some deeper digging.
posted by Sloop John B at 4:01 PM on July 9, 2010


Here's the thing--what you just shared about your experience with OCD, getting reassurance, all of this--would have been very valuable to him in that thread.

Perhaps. But we don't know that he has OCD. In his previous questions, he wants us to tell him if he's gay or not, and how to figure out if he is. He got lots of reassurance in those questions, lots of stories, and based on his continuing questions, none of that has helped (unlike the ADD askme, for instance, which obviously helped a lot of people). He's still going to need a professional to actually diagnose what's going with him, and no amount of "here's how I handled [thing you might not have]" until he finds out what he has.
posted by rtha at 4:01 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]


We don't know what he has, he doesn't know what he has, but learning about OCD would surely help him figure it out if, indeed, that's what he's facing. That's why he asked.

He is responsive, cortex, this final question was obviously a change from him thinking the problem was his orientation to him considering that it's a mental health issue (which several people mentioned, and he obviously listened) and wanting to know more about that particular issue.

So he has a new question that he can't really just put into google, but he can't ask it here.

I don't blame you for deleting it, mods, but it still bothers me. As does the way that people treated him in the previous threads.

If you don't like a question, don't answer it. If you don't think someone should be allowed to ask a certain question, take it to metatalk. If you're mad that someone didn't take our advice, too bad. We don't have to give advice; they don't have to take it.
posted by internet fraud detective squad, station number 9 at 4:13 PM on July 9, 2010 [6 favorites]


Would work better if it wasn't the latest in an aggressive string of repeat posts by an essentially non-responsive asker. This didn't happen in null context, nor is there any kind of sense in an apples-to-apples comparison between it and that other thread.

I don't think there's a simple solution here, but I'm more than happy to talk to antgly about ways to maybe try and approach this going forward in a way that doesn't feel like a wheel-spinning misuse of askme, and help him put together a specific framing of whatever his core question is in a way that may work well.


Oh, I totally agree that he didn't frame his question very well. I've already been discussing this with him via MeMail.
posted by Jaltcoh at 4:21 PM on July 9, 2010


The guy's absolutely refusing to tell us what he thinks about any of the previous answers to his question. Assuming he's not a troll, he's definitely not being helped by being allowed to post the same thing over and over again. Guy needs to be calling a LGBT hotline - confidential, perfectly safe from his controlling dad, and - oops, this may be the problem - actually likely to help.
posted by mediareport at 4:53 PM on July 9, 2010


BTW - Pure O is real, and reading about it on the internet can be enormously helpful. I know that when I finally found out what I had - something that my original (ineffective) therapist had absolutely no clue about - it was a huge weight off my back, inspired me to seek out a new therapist, and set into motion the thought processes that ultimately led to my recovery. And I would have never found out about it had I not decided to research it myself as opposed to trusting my original (ineffective) therapist.

I should clarify that in my comment above I was not saying that Pure O is not real. It kind of makes me sad (as a person in training in a clinical psychology program) how people struggling with mental health issues don't seek help until they discover a name for what they have. It's important to say here that this is the fault of our culture, not of the individuals with mental disorders.

We can make a diagnosis for anything, but it doesn't make it a real disorder any more than not having a diagnosis makes it not real. A diagnosis is largely diagnostician-dependent and represents a moment in time, not something you have permanently and no matter who's diagnosing you. The purpose of a diagnosis is to guide research and to help a therapist figure out how to treat what you have. It's also important for insurance purposes, but most therapists don't need a diagnosis to treat you, and the doctors who do need a diagnosis to treat will often just pull something out of their ass if it means the difference between you getting treatment or not.

Further, that a disorder is listed in the DSM does not imply that it has a specific, effective treatment unless it's something like specific phobia. Research tends to find that what works in treatment for psychological disorders is the nonspecific factors that characterize working with therapist. What I'm trying to say is: if you're struggling, seek help from a therapist.
posted by emilyd22222 at 5:00 PM on July 9, 2010 [4 favorites]


I don't disagree that a martini, in its ideal state, is made of gin. Chilled, in a martini glass, with an olive.

But please don't bash the vodka martini. It may not be the ideal martini, but in my view, it is the only acceptable way to consume vodka.
posted by jabberjaw at 5:07 PM on July 9, 2010


Ah, vodka. Here in New England it is distilled from many a source [PDF]: apples, maple sap, wheat, corn, sugar beets and molasses.
posted by ericb at 5:12 PM on July 9, 2010


I call Has Never Tasted Gin Disorder on some posters in this thread.
posted by DU at 5:12 PM on July 9, 2010 [4 favorites]


Would work better if it wasn't the latest in an aggressive string of repeat posts by an essentially non-responsive asker.

It's funny because continually asking the same targeted question over, and over, and over, and over again is a totally OCD thing to do.
posted by jabberjaw at 5:20 PM on July 9, 2010


The difference between vodka and gin (distillation quality control being equal) is quite trivial, and any affected preference for one or the other is the shallowest of aesthetics.

Holy shit you have no taste buds. Also: gin FTW.
posted by ericost at 5:25 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]


Here's the thing--what you just shared about your experience with OCD, getting reassurance, all of this--would have been very valuable to him in that thread.

Well he's not anonymous, someone can email him.

Which one of those two questions was a better instance of a "problem to be solved"?

Honestly, please, stop doing the "This got deleted and THAT didn't...." thing. Context is important. These two questions were totally different. We felt that leaving the other one was the least intrusive path. We felt that deleting this one early was the least intrusive path. Specifically

- we saw this question earlier than the other one [and yes, would have deleted the other one if we'd seen it, we've said that]
- this question asker is known to us for past questions that have been problematic in a community context [this is something that we need to worry about that individuals maybe do not, but it's a thing we have to think about when individual users are acting in a way that's sort of orthogonal to how the community works most smoothly]
- the question is not anonymous so anyone who has helpful information for the OP can contact them directly
- at some level people need to interact with the community in some sort of interactive way. Asking a series of very similar questions with no indication that they are all basically the same question becomes problematic [similar to sixcolors' basic "Why are people reacting weirdly to me" questions which now seem to make more sense in a "pure O" kind of way] and we have a few ways to respond to it. But a response needs to happen. People email us saying "are you going to let this guy ask the same question over and over" or "this guy needs help" or any number of things.

I'm not thrilled about either question or having to deal with both the question and the MeTa about the question, but that's how this played out.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 5:31 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]


And, outside of martinis, can somebody please tell me what the prejudice is against vodka? Is it just because some people you didn't like in the 90s used to drink it?
posted by Afroblanco at 5:32 PM on July 9, 2010


The whole point of vodka is that it's supposed to be as tasteless as possible. This is not a sin; it's extremely useful for a lot of things. Gin is specifically made to have flavor, and different gins have different flavors. Hendricks, for instance is not piney. It's got juniper in it, but it's not like licking a pine tree.

You knew this, right?
posted by rtha at 5:32 PM on July 9, 2010 [3 favorites]


(Flavored vodkas excepted, of course.)
posted by rtha at 5:33 PM on July 9, 2010


Jessamyn, I admit those are good reasons for the deletion. I myself have privately messaged him and tried to give him some hints on how he could ask a better question in the future, so it's not like I'm denying there's a problem with his questions -- I think we can all see that there is. But I was just pointing out that the standard seems to have gotten quite far removed from "problem to be solved." I still consider this worth pointing out even if these two specific decisions ultimately make sense. And the deletion did seem borderline to me, partly for reasons that internet fraud detective squad has already explained and that I don't feel the need to repeat.
posted by Jaltcoh at 5:48 PM on July 9, 2010


Vodka's role in drinks is largely textural, the difference between a good vodka and a bad one is the difference between sandpaper and velvet. The prejudice comes form the fact that decent-ish vodka is cheap enough and widespread enough to basically be a "make anything alcoholic" mixer, with people grumbling that you're not-actually-tasting the alcohol you're just covering it up with sugary nonsense. Vodka popularity with college freshmen looking to get As Hammered As Humanly Possible is also seen as a mark against it.

There is a time and a place for everything.
posted by The Whelk at 5:49 PM on July 9, 2010


But I was just pointing out that the standard seems to have gotten quite far removed from "problem to be solved."

"Problem to be solved" is a necessary but not sufficient condition.
posted by Justinian at 5:59 PM on July 9, 2010


Good point. That's why I said there were good reasons to delete it.
posted by Jaltcoh at 6:04 PM on July 9, 2010


Outside of Martinis I have no problem with vodka. It doesn't taste of anything, but that, as the kids say these days, is a feature not a bug. Personally, I prefer Manhattans to Martinis.
posted by ob at 6:11 PM on July 9, 2010


Yeah, I dunno. The whole drink snobbery thing is a bunch of bullshit, anyway. I like vodka, I like it cold, and I like it (mostly) unadorned. And when I order a martini, I don't ask for a "vodka martini." I ask for a "Goose martini," a "Ketel One martini," or if neither is available, a "Stoli martini." It's a simple, crisp, refreshing drink, hard to fuck up, even at the hands of the least-experienced bartender.

Besides, I gave up caring what people thought of my taste in food/drink right around the time that the offal craze hit NYC. I don't care how hip or authentic it is, I'm not eating fucking pork belly. I'm not eating veal cheeks. I'm not eating the ears or tail of ANYTHING.

Anthony Bourdain can go straight to hell.
posted by Afroblanco at 6:14 PM on July 9, 2010 [3 favorites]


sns' Vodka Martini

1 rock in rocks glass
2 or 3 fingers of top shelf vodka (from the freezer)
splash of super dry vermouth
one large garlic stuffed olive
small splash of garlic olive juice.

stirred.

Screw Anthony Bourdain AND that cute chubby guys who eats all that weird stuff.
posted by snsranch at 6:35 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]


Yeah, I dunno. The whole animal parts snobbery thing is a bunch of bullshit, anyway. I like cheeks. I like them warmed, and I like then (mostly) unadorned. And when I order cheeks, I don't ask for "offal." I ask for "braised veal cheeks," or however they happen to be serving them. Cheeks are a hip, authentic meal, and very tasty when prepared well.

Afroblanco can go straight to hell.
posted by ericost at 6:45 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]


Hey now, Afroblanco is good people. Well, except for that whole vodka thing.
posted by Skorgu at 7:00 PM on July 9, 2010


I like veal cheeks in my martini.
posted by Sys Rq at 7:02 PM on July 9, 2010


Smoked pork cheeks are like if bacon and prosciutto had a baby.
posted by The Whelk at 7:04 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]


Candwiches are the future of food.
posted by gman at 7:06 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]


AND that cute chubby guys who eats all that weird stuff.

*uncontrollable sobbing*
posted by The Whelk at 7:18 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]


I'm not eating the ears or tail of ANYTHING.

I LIKE. RUMP. ROAST AND I CAN NOT LIE
posted by DU at 7:19 PM on July 9, 2010 [3 favorites]


The difference between vodka and gin (distillation quality control being equal) is quite trivial, and any affected preference for one or the other is the shallowest of aesthetics.

Oh no you didn't.
posted by cj_ at 7:42 PM on July 9, 2010


I'm not eating fucking pork belly

You know it's basically bacon, right?
posted by rtha at 7:42 PM on July 9, 2010


delicious bacon.


I could use fried pork belly in my favorite way as the crunchy topping for a buttery garlicy mushroom risotto, you'd be all "This is amazing! MmmMmm!" and then as you finish I coyly ask you.

"so, what did you think of the meat?"


"Amazing! Rich salty bacon! The texture with the soft risotto and peppery mushrooms was superb, like a super-savory tart!"

"Well let you tell you something."

"What?"

"That wasn;t bacon."

"..."

I learn in closer, speaking softly - just to you. "it was the belly flesh of a hog! A HOG!"

And then you run screaming from the table, eyes burning wells of tears, as my peals of laughter echo into the night.

..and then you blind yousrelf or something.
posted by The Whelk at 7:48 PM on July 9, 2010 [10 favorites]


I'm not eating fucking pork belly. I'm not eating veal cheeks. I'm not eating the ears or tail of ANYTHING.

I've got bad news for you about bacon, hotdogs, and pho. Sorry.

I actually did a summery sort of drink a while back that was muddled pineapple, serrano chili, and cilantro with gin, simple syrup, and soda water. It was lovely, fruity but not too sweet with a bit of spicy bite and a distinct taste of both gin and cilantro.

My wife and I independently favorited this within three minutes of each other. Just sayin'.
posted by stet at 7:51 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]


Just the other night we blind tasted Beefeater vs. Bombay (regular) straight up, before mixing the drinks. The two are as different as chardonnay and riesling. That's just two common quality gins.

Gins have recipes. You need to source their ingredients from many countries. No two are identical, and the differences are stark. Bols Genever is miles from Bombay Sapphire, and there are a hundred legitimate quality formulations besides those.

You can make vodka from shoe leather, for chrissakes. I am always amused at the emphasis on the source grain in vodka ads. I have a professional level palate from years selling fine wine. While I can detect differences between vodkas, they are on core variables like volatility, mouthfeel (viscosity), and cleanliness of finish. Sometimes I think I can detect subtle flavor differences between, say, potato vodka and wheat vodka. But the stuff does approach flavorlessness (or the flavor of the underlying water source), which of course makes it a good vehicle for flavoring.

As to the thread topic, I think this was an example of using AskMe as therapy, ineffectively, and I think that happens a lot , although it's usually more effective. One feels sorry for the guy, but enough is enough. Deletion fully supported here.
posted by fourcheesemac at 8:02 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]


let Vodka be Vodka and let Gin be Gin and let us all now get Crunked.
posted by The Whelk at 8:03 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]


*pours juice for The Whelk*
posted by rtha at 8:08 PM on July 9, 2010


it is now a party.
posted by The Whelk at 8:21 PM on July 9, 2010


internets party
posted by The Whelk at 8:21 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]


nor is there any kind of sense in an apples-to-apples comparison

My family hit a new all-time high in Apples to Apples over the weekend:

Adj: Swift & Sure
Noun: Lethal Injection
posted by grapefruitmoon at 8:28 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]


My name for very high end vodka (all I drink down in my neck o the woods)......

Tolerance!!
posted by pearlybob at 8:33 PM on July 9, 2010


Apples to apples,
Cider to cider.

I really don't,
Mind.
If I'm in him,
Or inside
Her.
posted by Splunge at 9:59 PM on July 9, 2010


I disappeared and the thread developed (sorry!) , and there was some argument about whether or not the question should have been deleted. I was initially upset it was deleted -and posted so early on in the thread-, but after thinking about it for a few hours I totally understand why the mods deleted it. To me, it appeared an obvious form of re-assurance seeking, but to someone not familiar with the whole process it just seems, well, ridiculous. Reassurance seeking is annoying: it's repetitive, and it can be damaging to relationships. The mods had no idea how to deal with it, which is totally to be expected. So they did their job, and moderated the forum.

So if I may be allowed to humbly retract my previous outrage, mods, I will gladly do so now.
posted by HabeasCorpus at 10:42 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]


I'm going to take this bunch of cilantro and leave it in this mescal for a year.
posted by fuq at 11:41 PM on July 9, 2010


I've never considered eating something's cheeks, Afroblanco, but I find pork belly--like every other part of the animal I've tasted--fucking delicious. Maybe someday I'll get up the nerve to try their pickled feet.
posted by adamdschneider at 11:51 PM on July 9, 2010


love potato vodka (monopolowa is my favorite for price and taste and for having a fucking handle on the big size - all these indented grips can go jump off a bridge).

hate gin. i've had good gin and cheap gin and mixed and straight and it's just gross and foul and gross again.

love cilantro

agree with the deletion.

(did i miss anything?)
posted by nadawi at 12:56 AM on July 10, 2010 [2 favorites]


If the opportunity was presented to me and the meat was prepared in a decent enough manner, I would totally eat human. Cheeks, rump roast, ribs - I'd try it at least once.
posted by item at 12:59 AM on July 10, 2010


oh - and i'm a vegetarian so only soy cheeks, tongues, feet, and bellies

although, i don't really understand meat eaters who will eat this meat but not that or eat this animal but not that (barring ethical concerns with things like veal and endangered animals and the like).
posted by nadawi at 1:04 AM on July 10, 2010 [1 favorite]


A possible explanation of what he's experiencing that I haven't read yet is that it is possible to be hetero and feel some of the things he describes.

When you're really young and not getting laid almost anything can be arousing; even the slightest breeze. So even a sexually charged situation of an orientation that's not yours can be arousing. But at the same time the actual sexual practice of where that charged situation could lead to fills you with distaste*) when it comes to taking part. Because it's just not your thing. Those diametrically opposed feelings can be hard to parse when you're young and frustrated.

Of course that doesn't explain the repetitiveness of the posts.

*) I don't see that as being homophobe. The prospect of eating brussels sprouts can fill me with distaste. That doesn't mean I judge people who do eat brussels sprouts.
posted by joost de vries at 3:46 AM on July 10, 2010


although, i don't really understand meat eaters who will eat this meat but not that or eat this animal but not that (barring ethical concerns with things like veal and endangered animals and the like

It's not a rational thing. There's a a spectrum each meat item falls on regarding how obvious it is that it comes from a living creature. People's comfort levels differ. I think there are a lot of meat eaters that would be horrified at the idea of cutting off a chickens head, slicing open its belly, pulling the guts out with their bare hands, and plucking its feathers before cooking it. But a chicken nugget has about as much relation to this as a eating a Ritz cracker. Eating parts of an animal's body that isn't something one is acculturated to seems "gross" because it seems like an actual body part, whereas stuff we've been eating since we were children (in the US, that's ribs, steak, hot dogs, hamburger, breaded chicken breast/wings/legs, etc) is just "food".
posted by cj_ at 3:57 AM on July 10, 2010 [2 favorites]


When you've eaten caribou eyeballs and raw seal intestines and goose brains, it's all good after that.

As for cheeks, that's why it's called "barbecue." What, you thought beards grew on ribs?
posted by fourcheesemac at 4:59 AM on July 10, 2010


what a great thread and wonderful example of mefi coming together as a community, perhaps we can sidebar it along with the russian sex slave rescue.
posted by sgt.serenity at 5:02 AM on July 10, 2010


I think there are a lot of meat eaters that would be horrified at the idea of cutting off a chickens head, slicing open its belly, pulling the guts out with their bare hands, and plucking its feathers before cooking it.

I think that, if you are not willing to face the fact that this is what you do (or pay someone else to do), then you probably shouldn't be eating meat at all.

And Red Cooked Pork Belly is one of the best dishes on the planet. So there.
posted by GenjiandProust at 5:44 AM on July 10, 2010 [1 favorite]


When you've eaten caribou eyeballs and raw seal intestines and goose brains, it's all good after that.

♫ AN EYEBALL IS A SOMETIMES FOOD ♭
posted by zarq at 6:34 AM on July 10, 2010 [5 favorites]


although, i don't really understand meat eaters who will eat this meat but not that or eat this animal but not that

Taste mattes. I can't stand duck, which will cheerfully gnaw on chicken for the rest of my days.
posted by new brand day at 6:35 AM on July 10, 2010


The SLOG Guide to alcohol, uses thereof:

Tall gin and tonic with splash of lime and bitters, for porch sipping, lunchtime
Tall rum and ice tea for porch sipping, evening
Whiskey, neat, for weekend discussions and sexy play time
Wine, red or white, for dinner
Wine, sparkling, for holidays
Beer, micro-brewery, for keeping husband cheerful
Vodka for making flaky pastry
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:54 AM on July 10, 2010 [4 favorites]


Coriander Martini

Ingredients:
- 1 part vodka
- dash of dry vermouth
- bunch of coriander leaves*

Stir all ingredients in a mixing glass without ice for a few seconds. Add lots of ice and stir well. Strain into a well chilled cocktail glass. Garnish with a coriander leaf.

* if you can't find coriander, you can substitute cilantro.
posted by UbuRoivas at 6:59 AM on July 10, 2010 [2 favorites]


SLOG, tell me more about rum and iced tea. Any particular variety of rum (dark/light/spiced)? Anything else in the tea?
posted by donnagirl at 7:21 AM on July 10, 2010


If the opportunity was presented to me and the meat was prepared in a decent enough manner, I would totally eat human. Cheeks, rump roast, ribs - I'd try it at least once.

I maintain that if I were hanging out with a cannibal and I hadn't had to, y'know, obtain the meat that I would totally mooch a bite of human.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 7:46 AM on July 10, 2010


Vodka for making flaky pastry oh my yes.
posted by crush-onastick at 7:48 AM on July 10, 2010 [1 favorite]


I've been reading and reading and reading, and I still can't figure out what a "vodka martini" is. I don't think gin and vodka would taste so good together. Is this what everybody means? Because without gin, IT'S NOT A FUCKING MARTINI. It's like making a rum and coke without rum. Or coke.

Also, "soy cheeks" = great band name.
posted by nevercalm at 8:43 AM on July 10, 2010


* if you can't find coriander, you can substitute cilantro

Coriander = Cilantro
posted by Kimberly at 9:01 AM on July 10, 2010


Coriander = Cilantro

ostly, you see the first name applied to the seeds (whole in pod or ground) and the second applied to the leaves, but they are the same plant.
posted by GenjiandProust at 9:24 AM on July 10, 2010 [1 favorite]


Look, my whole point was that it's dumb to care what other people think of what is in your glass or on your plate. So telling me that you have some system of beliefs about what parts of the animal should be eaten -- the fuck should I care? I was just mentioning my personal tastes, and how I don't care if that conflicts with the current fashionable ideas about what constitutes food or drink. So go ahead -- eat you cow stomach. See if I care.

And cannibalism is okay as long as it's free range and organic. So my advice would be to only eat vegan hippies. Actually, consider that a plea; we have way too goddamn many of them in this city.
posted by Afroblanco at 9:27 AM on July 10, 2010 [1 favorite]


although, i don't really understand meat eaters who will eat this meat but not that or eat this animal but not that

Dude, that's just crazy talk and you know it! You're a vegetarian, right? So does that mean you'll just automatically eat any vegetable, or any vegetarian dish, regardless of ingredients? Any preparation of TVP or quorn or seitan or tofu? Of course not, because you have personal preferences regarding flavour or mouthfeel, likes and dislikes. Just like everyone else.

Secondly, herbivores and omnivores taste very very different from carnivores. Most carnivores apparently taste pretty grotendous and bitter. Game animals taste.... wait for it... gamey. Some people like it, some people don't. There is a huge, vast, yawning chasm of difference between the flavour of poached chicken breast and that of, idk, roast squirrel, even before you start adding things like herbs and spices and sauces.

Thirdly, people get creeped out by the idea of eating what they feel are the "weird parts" of animals they otherwise enjoy eating. I personally like beef and pork, but I won't eat any kind of sausage that isn't kosher. Why? Because kosher meat can only be taken from the front quarters of the animal, and not the hindquarters. This means that there is no cow butthole in kosher hot dogs. This is important to me, because I like eating sausage secure in the knowledge that I am not eating ground up anuses. Because hi, that is icky to contemplate. (Yeah, I know there are probably lips and ears and nostrils and other random stuff in it, whatevs.)

In conclusion, both meaty and nonmeaty food is nommy and awesome, especially when free of ground up assholes.
posted by elizardbits at 9:33 AM on July 10, 2010


Metafilter: Free of ground up assholes.
posted by The Whelk at 9:36 AM on July 10, 2010 [3 favorites]


Well. Ideally.
posted by elizardbits at 9:42 AM on July 10, 2010 [5 favorites]


I personally like beef and pork, but I won't eat any kind of sausage that isn't kosher. Why? Because kosher meat can only be taken from the front quarters of the animal, and not the hindquarters.

That's actually not true. (Don't believe everything you're told in hot dog commercials!)

Back there, it's the sciatic nerve ( גיד הנשה) and the intestines and organ meat (חֵלֶב) that aren't kosher. If they're properly removed, ta-da! Kosher.

Kosher butchers just tend not to bother with that since it's a pain in the ass, so they sell the hindquarters to the non-kosher market. But sometimes they do bother, so it's entirely possible to have a kosher sausage with a big ol' butt in there. (Now, as for the casing...?)
posted by Sys Rq at 10:45 AM on July 10, 2010


STOP RUINING MY BUTTHOLE-FREE DREAMS YOU BASTARD
posted by elizardbits at 10:59 AM on July 10, 2010 [1 favorite]


Also I don't think my gramma's zillion year old kosher butcher ever made any hot dog commercials but omg that would be awesome.
posted by elizardbits at 11:05 AM on July 10, 2010


> although, i don't really understand meat eaters who will eat this meat but not that or eat this animal but not that (barring ethical concerns with things like veal and endangered animals and the like).

Oh, come on. I don't drink but I can understand why someone who does drink wouldn't want to have an OE malt liquor + vanilla extract mixer.
posted by Burhanistan at 11:51 AM on July 10, 2010 [2 favorites]


SLOG, tell me more about rum and iced tea. Any particular variety of rum (dark/light/spiced)? Anything else in the tea?
posted by donnagirl at 10:21 AM on July 10 [+] [!] [quote]

I used to use Crystal Lite, but I stopped using aspartame, so now it is home-brewed Liptons, squeeze of lemon, little bit of sugar (or splenda) and some spiced rum. Maybe...1 oz of rum to 6 of ice tea and fill up the glass with ice. A nice, smooth drink for us rum lovers that won't get you as soused as Long Island ice tea and won't have as many calories, either.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:56 PM on July 10, 2010 [1 favorite]


Often times they will engage in "reassurance seeking", by asking, over and over again, for advice and clarification on the same subject

Reassurance seeking is annoying: it's repetitive, and it can be damaging to relationships.


Wow, HabeasCorpus, you just cleared something up for me. I had a roommate in college whom I now very strongly suspect had Pure O. She and I remained in touch for about ten years after college and I eventually had to cut off contact with her because I couldn't take her behaviour anymore. Back in college we not only lived in the same townhouse in student housing but were in the same program and had all the same classes, and being that she was new to Toronto and didn't know anyone she latched on to me and expected me to spend all my time with her. Dear God did she need constant reassurance. She would ask me how her hair looked ten times a day. I would say, "Fine". She would say, shrilly, "Just fine? What do you really think of it?", and keep at me and at me to praise her hair. Again, she did this about ten times a day. I asked her to stop and she wouldn't. Her standpoint was she needed to be told that her hair looked wonderful and I was a bad person and bad friend "and too busy stroking my own ego" if I didn't give her what she needed.

She was like that any time she wanted anything from me. Whatever her demand — whether it be that (during college) I not have a boyfriend when she didn't have one, that I not go anywhere without her, that I compliment her constantly, that I (after college) answer her letters the same day they arrived instead of waiting until the next weekend when I would have time (when I was working 50+ hours and going to university part time), that I keep her letters (when I was living in one 10x15 room and had no storage and am not one to keep a lot of stuff anyway), that I allow her and her boyfriend to come to stay at my place for a weekend (when I was unemployed and barely had enough to eat), that I tell her her novel was wonderful (it wasn't), that I tell her something I'd hinted at but that had to be kept confidential, whatever it was, she demanded it relentlessly. She'd ask for something, I'd say no and explain quite politely why I wasn't going to do it, and she'd just keep pushing and pushing the issue and making increasingly ridiculous and offensive arguments (i.e., if I kept my journals and other writings rather than her letters, that meant I was full of myself to think my work was that important) until I was furiously angry, and then she'd push some more. She never let anything go and she never, ever seemed to realize how selfish and out of line she was. She honestly thinks people owe it to her to bend over backwards to make her happy, even to the point of making major life decisions according to how she felt about them. And then there were the constant chastisements because I'd said or done something she didn't like. She couldn't just speak her mind and let it go, either — she'd demand that I respond in a particular way. And when I didn't, she'd keep demanding that I do so.

I definitely had caught on that she had obsessive thought patterns and a problem with anxiety in general. I mean, she was in her thirties and still going on about how she got picked on in high school. Many years ago a cousin of hers took the same program she and I had, and then proceeded to get better jobs than her. She said this cousin of hers had "stolen her dream", was extremely upset because she felt this cousin had no right to take "her chosen path" when it interfered with her feeling like a special snowflake, and ten years later was still sending me occasional long email rants about it. Unsurprisingly, she had very few friends at any time and a number of former friends had had to walk away. Then, of course, she'd keep hassling them and go on and on about them and be completely in the dark as to why they didn't want to be in touch with her anymore.

It's so cool to finally be able to place her behaviour within its proper context, and see it as a whole. It's like the time I was talking to a co-worker who has a background in special education, and he told me he suspected a third, very strange, person who works at our company had a combination of Tourette's and autism. Having information like this helps us make sense of others' behaviour and gives us an idea of how best to handle it. Knowledge is definitely power. In the past I've regretted that I did not do research on how best to help someone with a specific problem, such as a friend in an abusive relationship, and tried to just cope with it as best I could, with less than desirable results. From now on I'm going to be doing my homework before deciding how to cope with someone with a problem. We live in the age of information and it's so important to take advantage of it.
posted by orange swan at 12:58 PM on July 10, 2010 [5 favorites]


A true old school Martini is made with genever. None of that 'gin' rip off fakery.
posted by joost de vries at 1:10 PM on July 10, 2010


A true old school Martini is made with genever.

So true. After all 'gin' was invented in Holland by Franciscus Sylvius.
posted by ericb at 2:08 PM on July 10, 2010


Coriander = Cilantro

No, no, no. What people call cilantro is subtly different to coriander. Otherwise, it's impossible to understand how people can have such hatred for such a tasty & versatile herb. It's like how courgettes & aubergines are so much more delicate & subtle than zucchini or eggplant, and how prawns are superiour to shrimp.
posted by UbuRoivas at 2:11 PM on July 10, 2010


Coriander doesn't equal cilantro any more than acorn meal equals oak furniture.
posted by Burhanistan at 2:18 PM on July 10, 2010


Orange Swan, from that description (and as a person with the so-called "Pure O" version of OCD) it sounds like your former friend had more she was suffering from than Pure O. Generally, as Habeas Corpus stated above, the obsessions of an OCD sufferer are more "breaking taboo" in nature, and generally the internal compulsions are more "tell me I'm not a bad person". In my case, mine were health related (largely because my mother, who had Borderline Personality Disorder, would scream at me when I got sick. Honestly. Getting sick was a chargeable offense.). So two of mine manifested like this:

As a child: I petted dogs, even though my mother told me "They might bite you and they might have rabies." Then I would spend hours replaying the interaction with someone's doggie, thinking, "What if it slobbered on me? And I had a cut? And it had rabies? And it died without anyone knowing about it? I would get rabies and it would be all my fault." My internal compulsion was to check myself while drinking water several times a day and see if I could still swallow.

As an adult: I had a melanoma obsession about the time the whole education campaign about sunscreen came out. I have over 100 moles of various sizes on my arms alone. I would check them several times a day to make sure they hadn't turned cancerous in the last half-hour.

Thank goodness for meds.

The reassurance your former friend needed, and the control she exerted over people's lives, sounds more like one of the personality disorders in combination with OCD. IANAP, but it so reminded me of my mother in some ways -- "Do you love me? Are you sure you love me? You won't spend all your available time around me -- you don't love me. You want to see your boyfriend? Fine, go ahead, betray me." Borderline Personality Disorder is really, REALLY hard on the sufferer, because it is typified by very labile (moment-to-moment swinging) moods. Typical: less than completely heartfelt response from someone can trigger enormous feelings of rejection in the BP sufferer.
posted by lleachie at 2:22 PM on July 10, 2010 [2 favorites]


I think you're probably right that there was something more going on with my former roommate than the Pure O, lleachie. Sally's behaviour had a number of negative aspects to it — I was just trying to keep it condensed. Here are some other aspects of it:

- painful shyness
- low self-esteem
- extreme dependence on external validation
- extremely negative and pessimistic mindset
- a great deal of anxiety. She was always freaking out about trivial things, such as why her montly Visa bill hadn't arrived yet.
- some phobias, such as a fear of heights, and she couldn't pop the lid out of a can of food after using the can opener because she was convinced she was going to cut herself. She'd carry on and on about it until I did it for her for the sake of peace.
- little to no respect for other people's boundaries or privacy. Sally kept walking into my room uninvited. I asked her not to. She argued that meant I didn't want her in there and how I wasn't being polite, etc. I started locking the door. Which led to more arguments about how that made her feel. Or if she was hanging out in my room, and I asked her to leave because I wanted to do whatever, she'd refuse. She also showed no discretion in terms of what she'd say to or about someone else. She kept up a running stream of ridicule and critique over everything I said or did: what I ate, every penny I spent, my clothes, my personal hygiene, my relationships, my friends and family, my schoolwork, the contents of my laundry basket, my belongings, what I read, what music I listened to. A friend of hers, T., has a child who is not her husband's — she met her husband when she was pregnant, and he decided to be a father to the little girl. Sally was freely telling people about "Katie's" parentage, and it got back to T., who was furious and told her off for it. Sally bitched to me that she didn't see how'd she'd done anything wrong.

- Jealousy. I was not supposed to have anything that she didn't have. When we were in college my parents' accountant was still doing my taxes for free because they were so simple. Sally had no such free service and lectured me for using accountant because I was "taking unfair advantage over people who couldn't afford accountants". Sally had an older sister who was more attractive and personable and who had more education and made more money, and she couldn't stand it. She'd bitch that she didn't like one of our classmates because she was "too pretty".

- She resented having to do anything at all for anyone else, and expected immediate payback if she did. One time she was away for the weekend and wanted me to go to a music show and buy her some special collectibles a vendor had promised to have ready for her. I did so — it took my entire Sunday afternoon, and since she refused even to advance me the money it cost, I had no money for anything all that weekend. Then a few weeks later, we were at the grocery store, and she was going straight home while I wanted to go do something else. So, since I had bought a few items that needed to be frozen, I asked her if she would please take them with her and throw them in the fridge for me. We're talking about items that weighed at the very most less than a pound, total. My roommate said, nastily, "Why should I do that for you?" I said, "Don't you remember how I spent my entire Saturday afternoon going to that collectibles show for you?" She took the bag from me angrily and said, sarcastically, "It's a good thing you don't bring things up." Of if she had some wine and offered me a glass, the next day she'd lecture me on how I owed it to her to buy some wine and let her have some.

There are many, many more such stories....

I don't know what the final, holistic diagnosis would be. I don't think the mood swings were a symptom. In my experience, she was consistently like this.
posted by orange swan at 3:29 PM on July 10, 2010 [2 favorites]


We are having pork fried rice for dinner. We had some leftover roast pork, some shrimp, plenty of veggies, leftover white rice. Delicious.
posted by fixedgear at 3:41 PM on July 10, 2010


Lancashire hotpot here, with an organic lamb neck that I plan to cleave right up into chunks, so the marrow seeps out all over the bottom layer of potatoes.
posted by UbuRoivas at 3:57 PM on July 10, 2010 [1 favorite]


Pizza.
posted by languagehat at 6:42 PM on July 10, 2010


Special K. With barely any milk since I ran out.

sad
posted by Justinian at 7:24 PM on July 10, 2010


A variety of cheeses, a delicious braised lentil dish and some donuts.
posted by rtha at 7:30 PM on July 10, 2010


Do they make real Special K anymore? It used to be just, like, squished Rice Krispies. This stuff in my cupboard with the dehydrated strawberries is lovely, but it's not Special K.
posted by Sys Rq at 7:30 PM on July 10, 2010


Posting that shamed me into making cheese quesadilla with guacamole, sour cream, and sweet onions. With some almonds.

Thanks for making me less pathetic.
posted by Justinian at 7:41 PM on July 10, 2010 [4 favorites]


I tried a new recipe last night, Chicken and Mushrooms in Merlot. It was good but subtle, maybe a little too subtle. I think it could use some tweaking. I think a higher ratio of wine to chicken stock and a soupçon more garlic.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:45 AM on July 11, 2010 [1 favorite]


Blame Bond, James Bond.
posted by Splunge at 9:32 PM on July 11, 2010


I'm following this discussion closely, and plan to share it with a likely sufferer.

Oh. what. ever.

And I suppose I should feel bad for liking white wine, too, huh?
posted by Afroblanco


There is a bar near me that keeps all three bottles of the same white wine open and unrefrigerated, and always pour from the most empty, stalest, bottle. I asked the bartender politely what that was about, and he said the management doesn't want gays in there. Seriously.
posted by StickyCarpet at 6:18 AM on July 12, 2010


I know someone who has just about every attribute described by orange swan. But she also has, for instance, a tremendously infectious delight in meeting a stranger from her own home town. The boundary transgressions are epic, even criminal, yet she will travel a long distance late at night bringing home made soup to a sick friend. She will cry if she sees a bruise on a friend, and patiently massage it, or buy medical supplies. I'm thinking that the overactive amygdala cuts both ways.
posted by StickyCarpet at 6:36 AM on July 12, 2010


orange swan: ...she'd demand that I respond in a particular way.

I find the following as funny as I do annoying: The girl I spoke of, if you say something "bad" or "unlucky," will lightly touch her index finger to your nose and say, "take it back." If you don't say, "I take it back," she will continue to touch your nose, while going through numerous variations on insisting that you do take it back. This could go on for hours, I never explored the extremes on this, and just say, "Itkitbk," as one syllable, to move on.
posted by StickyCarpet at 7:00 AM on July 12, 2010


No, no, no. What people call cilantro is subtly different to coriander.

Well, the dialect is different for sure. They are the same plant though. Americans call it [the leaves anyway] cilantro, the British call it coriander.
posted by Kimberly at 7:51 AM on July 12, 2010 [1 favorite]


> Well, the dialect is different for sure. They are the same plant though. Americans call it [the leaves anyway] cilantro, the British call it coriander.

As I said upthread, coriander:cilantro::acorn meal:oak hardwood.
posted by Burhanistan at 8:05 AM on July 12, 2010


As I said upthread, coriander:cilantro::acorn meal:oak hardwood.

Not in the places I've lived, and (for what little it means) wikipedia agrees:

The leaves are variously referred to as coriander leaves, Chinese parsley, cilantro (in America, from the Spanish for the plant).
posted by Forktine at 8:35 AM on July 12, 2010


I've been reading and reading and reading, and I still can't figure out what a "vodka martini" is. I don't think gin and vodka would taste so good together. Is this what everybody means? Because without gin, IT'S NOT A FUCKING MARTINI. It's like making a rum and coke without rum. Or coke.

As a linguist . . . I think the problem is that "martini glass" is more distinctive than "martini," because the martini glass has such a distinctive shape. So now instead of the martini glass being defined as "what's holding the martini," a martini is commonly defined as "whatever's in the martini glass."

Result:
vodka in martini glass = martini
posted by sunnichka at 9:52 AM on July 12, 2010


"Martini" is named after the damned vermouth, NOT the gin.

A "martini" is gin with vermouth and a garnish. Modern tastes, inexplicably, forgoe the vermouth, but that is just gin with a garnish.

A vodka martini is vodka with vermouth and a garnish. It is very tasty. Really now, this doesn't seem to be too hard to understand, unless you are the sort that calls "gin with a garnish" a martini.
posted by muddgirl at 9:59 AM on July 12, 2010


Vodka + vermouth = a perfectly fine cocktail called a kangeroo.

I was at a bar last week, and this guy comes in and orders a beer, with some grenadine in it, saying "That's how they do it in italy". The bartendress made the drink as he asked for it, and then after he'd walked away, confided in me that her friend had just gotten back from italy and never mentioned any such 'horrid concoction'. I did a quick googling, and determined that there is such a drink, called "Monaco", but it includes sprite as well. The more you know.
posted by nomisxid at 11:05 AM on July 12, 2010


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