Haven't we all had enough? July 20, 2010 1:22 AM   Subscribe

Do we have to have yet another mobile phone fight thread?

Even when you try to be rational in a discussion it's quickly overtaken. 3-4 posts usually. I'm just going to steer clear of this one but can we nuke it from orbit before it becomes like the other two still open?
posted by Talez to Etiquette/Policy at 1:22 AM (258 comments total) 2 users marked this as a favorite

Alternatively, if we can have some sort of timeout period for certain loud voices for any thread tagged "apple" or "phone" I'm sure they wouldn't be overtaken as quickly.
posted by Talez at 1:24 AM on July 20, 2010


Same dude posted both the new thread and the very much not dead Nexus One post. I don't think every damn gadget news item deserves an FPP, and someone might want to clue Hasai in on authoring principles in the blue.
posted by pwnguin at 1:34 AM on July 20, 2010


pwnguin: he's got a whole thread for that very purpose.
posted by Infinite Jest at 1:48 AM on July 20, 2010


I love this guy already. He figured out how to play mefi like a harp.

Hey, guys, it's just a phone.
posted by cj_ at 2:08 AM on July 20, 2010 [5 favorites]


I think we can all agree that all the internet needs is one more MetaFilter thread that people can take over to argue about Apple iProducts and then the debate surrounding which mobile communication device will change your life forever will be resolved once and for all. Hasai is merely doing us all a public service by providing that venue.
posted by cmonkey at 2:14 AM on July 20, 2010


Sometimes, when I think back to how I'd have to walk half a mile in the rain and then stand in a slightly smelly red box and feed in the big old 10p coins and talk into a chunk of chipped bakelite, trying to ignore the slightly irritated-looking man pacing up and down the pavement outside, pretending not to see how pointedly he keeps raising his wrist to mime "you've been in there for ever", struggling to make the most of every minute with my first girlfriend, who evenutally turned out to be utterly and horribly wrong for me, I wonder if we've really gained anything.
posted by le morte de bea arthur at 2:22 AM on July 20, 2010 [24 favorites]


I removed the thread as a double of his previous post. It was already getting flagged quite a bit. I was away from the computer for a while and didn't see it until now.
posted by vacapinta at 2:22 AM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]


I removed the thread as a double of his previous post. It was already getting flagged quite a bit. I was away from the computer for a while and didn't see it until now.

Aw, I was totally primed for watching BP take on all comers.

/me tosses bag of popcorn petulantly aside
posted by cj_ at 2:38 AM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]


I particularly love the never-ending discussion of which American network has the best/worst reception and YMMV anecdata that tends to flood those threads.
posted by awfurby at 4:05 AM on July 20, 2010


Aw, I was totally primed for watching BP take on all comers.

Oh, gods. That kind of implies there might be a victor. There won't be. There can't be.

---

While we're here, can someone explain where the insult is supposed to be in the statement "haters got to hate" or its older cousin "5 minute hate?" I mean, I guess I kind of get it, but to my ear it sounds exactly like "I know you are but what am I?" or other playground rejoinders. It's dismissive without having any substance. Is there a nuance I'm missing?
posted by maxwelton at 4:11 AM on July 20, 2010


It implies that one is just mindlessly piling on the bandwagon along with other people without regard to facts or details due to one's dislike of the subject matter at hand.
posted by Talez at 4:18 AM on July 20, 2010


No, you're not missing a nuance. It originated in the song "Playas Gon' Play" by 3LW in 2000, and has become the modern version of "Sticks and stones may break my bones".

And it's nearly as annoying as the idiotic 'Countdown to (x) in 3... 2... 1...' meme.
posted by le morte de bea arthur at 4:24 AM on July 20, 2010


Calling these posts "mobile phone fights" is to severely miss the point. The issue is control of the future. Does it belong to corporations or does it belong to people?
posted by DU at 4:32 AM on July 20, 2010 [2 favorites]


Oh, gods. That kind of implies there might be a victor. There won't be. There can't be.

I think the winners are those of us that read these ridiculous arguments for entertainment purposes only. It's a phone, people. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

While we're here, can someone explain where the insult is supposed to be in the statement "haters got to hate"

It's dismissal, which is an extremely powerful rhetoric device. It is meant to imply that the people proffering criticism are only doing so because they are "haters" rather than having a legitimate criticism. You are expected to not take anything they take serious from that point on.
posted by cj_ at 4:36 AM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]


The issue is control of the future. Does it belong to corporations or does it belong to people?

It still belongs to People™. People™ could, for example, not by the device in question, if they didn't like the terms they were asked to agree to upon purchase.
posted by cj_ at 4:39 AM on July 20, 2010 [2 favorites]


*buy
posted by cj_ at 4:40 AM on July 20, 2010


Kind of like how women can "just get another job" if harassed at work or the poor can "just move somewhere else" when a landfill moves in next door?

Sometimes an alternative doesn't exist. For instance, when a service you require is "iPhone-only" or when your device is supplied by someone else. Sometimes people aren't aware of alternatives. Would we really all be better off if Pepsi Blue posts consisted of nothing but cheerleading?
posted by DU at 4:45 AM on July 20, 2010


The issue is control of the future.

These things.... they control the future too now? No wonder I've been doing so badly.
posted by le morte de bea arthur at 4:46 AM on July 20, 2010


Kind of like how women can "just get another job" if harassed at work or the poor can "just move somewhere else" when a landfill moves in next door?

Could this be a more Metafilter analogy to talking about mobile phones?

If you require a iPhone only service but you want the future to belong to People, you've already lost.
posted by setanor at 5:00 AM on July 20, 2010 [4 favorites]


For a community that loves to ridicule religious zealots, we sure spend a lot of time acting like them, especially in smartphone threads. Tune in next week when the same cast of characters all conclude that consumer culture is poisoning America and it's not their fault.
posted by TrialByMedia at 5:03 AM on July 20, 2010 [4 favorites]


Oh shit, this is the guy who posted a whole metatalk on how to make his first post super-awesome like a wedding night. And *this* shit is what he thought would be the awesomest posts evah?

Dollars to donuts he's shilling something and as cj_ says, playing MeFi like a fucking harp.

Mobile phone news is not interesting. It's all over the web. If I want to read fanbois arguing about iPhones and Nexus 1s and shit, I can head over to EndGadget or any of 5000 other tech sites. I think the first thread should be killed too, and Apple vs. everyone else should be like Israel v. Palestine, basically just off limits for MeFi. This is juvenile bullshit. Who cares what phone you like? Your favorite phone sucks.
posted by fourcheesemac at 5:03 AM on July 20, 2010 [13 favorites]


If you require a iPhone only service but you want the future to belong to People, you've already lost.

Agreed. I'm glad you've agreed to join the fight against the iPhone Hegemony. First step: tell your library that audio books can be obtained in formats other than for iPhone.

Which is exactly what I came back here to say, actually. The reach of a device is not just over those who purchase it (or decline to do the same). It is also over the rest of us and over other devices and policies in the future by establishing precedent and norms. With each new device like this, it becomes less and less remarkable that I could purchase an item from a company and be de facto and de jure barred from using it how I want.
posted by DU at 5:05 AM on July 20, 2010


Kind of like how women can...

Are you seriously comparing the issue of gender equality and sexual discrimination with the consumer choice of a smart-phone? I don't even know what to say. That kinda pisses me off though.

Sometimes an alternative doesn't exist.

Yeah, no, there is an alternative. Not buying it if you don't like it. Crazy, I know.

Would we really all be better off if Pepsi Blue posts consisted of nothing but cheerleading?

I don't know that it matters either way, but I don't think anyone is better off when 2 comments in they are spammed with emacs vs vi level of discourse. Maybe if you don't like iPhones you should consider not entering these threads, instead of trying to convince people who like them that they are morally inferior.
posted by cj_ at 5:07 AM on July 20, 2010 [3 favorites]


I'm glad you are strongly of the opinion that alternatives should exist and are passionate in advocating them. Welcome to the club.
posted by DU at 5:12 AM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]


I think that I just need to stay away from mobile phone threads, I've been feeding the trolls too much lately.
posted by octothorpe at 5:16 AM on July 20, 2010


I'm thinking of filing my teeth down and filling them with blood diamonds so I can better chew on declawed cats.
posted by nola at 5:18 AM on July 20, 2010 [6 favorites]


Did you even read what I said?
posted by cj_ at 5:19 AM on July 20, 2010


Ok, who told Hasai to post at 2:35 to avoid the mods but failed to warn him of vacapinta? Hasai started a meta to get info like that and someone failed him!
posted by cjorgensen at 5:20 AM on July 20, 2010


I'd love to stay and read this thread because it looks like it could be a good one, but I've gotta go to work. Where I work people don't argue. If a disagreement arises they just get quieter and quieter until someone gets punched in the face or chased around the job site with a claw hammer. I gotta tell you I'd rather work with them, then most of you.
posted by nola at 5:25 AM on July 20, 2010 [4 favorites]


Don't buy it if you don't like it.

Do we really want a society driven by those with the most purchasing power?
posted by DU at 5:32 AM on July 20, 2010 [4 favorites]


It's kind of ironic that the very next post is Blazecock Pileon making an Apple post.
posted by smackfu at 5:37 AM on July 20, 2010


Do we really want a society driven by those with the most purchasing power?

As opposed to what? Because that's already what we have.
posted by fourcheesemac at 5:42 AM on July 20, 2010


It's a phone, people.

You are completely and utterly missing the point. It's not just a phone, it's freaking computer that contains important aspects of not only people's lives, but their business. These devices are extremely important and getting more important as they get more powerful. To dismiss them as just phones is about the equivalent of condescending know it all male opining about when and how women should feel harassed.

Yeah, no, there is an alternative. Not buying it if you don't like it.

That's not the frigging point. The point is that others are buying something that will impact you, despite whatever personal choices you may and that impact may be negative. It's about what corporation and its philosophy is going have control over the computer in your pocket that contains most, if not all, of your personal and professional information on it.

Those are legitimate things worth hashing out, over and over if we have to. If you don't like, don't read the damn thread.
posted by new brand day at 5:44 AM on July 20, 2010 [4 favorites]


No, this is just a rehash of the Apple-Mac flamewars that never meant anything and was just years and years of internet arguing.

It may be an important issues but arguing about it here is mindless time-killing.
posted by smackfu at 5:46 AM on July 20, 2010 [4 favorites]


I like how both of you have tried to equate my disagreement about this with the currently active threads on sexism. Is that like the new Godwin?

Stay classy.
posted by cj_ at 5:55 AM on July 20, 2010 [2 favorites]


Oh shit, this is the guy who posted a whole metatalk on how to make his first post super-awesome like a wedding night. And *this* shit is what he thought would be the awesomest posts evah?

Whoa. To extend the wedding night analogy, that post is like the bride and groom looking at each other lovingly, pulling out a Phase 10 deck, and then proceeding to argue over the rules all night. The next morning, after about an hour of sleep, they blearily stumble out of their room, and head down to the continental breakfast. They quietly shovel scrambled eggs into their mouths, then sit in silence. Neither one is able to wonder aloud if it's too late to get the marriage annulled. The groom mutters something about the hotel pool, and the bride nods. He gets up from the table, ostensibly to go for a swim. The bride picks up a copy of USA today and lets her eyes drift across the page. She absently picks at a piece of half-eaten cantaloupe.
posted by Greg Nog at 6:04 AM on July 20, 2010 [14 favorites]


Do we need to have yet another x fight thread?
posted by box at 6:05 AM on July 20, 2010


Oh my god kill this motherfucking shit topic with a hatchet.

Know why I like marketing? Because it's marketing's job to go, "Hey we have this phone. Let's figure out a legit reason why somebody would want one." And they are paid MILLIONS OF DOLLARS to come up with a good reason, and then to make sure people know that reason.

The fact that people don't know the name Android is that nobody in their right mind gives a FUCK about an open source phone software. Windows 7 Phone Whatever is something that might offer things people care about. I don't know. I've never used Windows Mobile but maybe somebody likes it. But Android? Android has two markets, one of which is People Looking For A Phone But Don't Give A Fuck About Android, and they don't have to be marketed to, and one of which is People Who Care More About Phones Than Real Human Beings, and they probably have their own dating sites already.

It's like when I pulled out my iPhone two days ago to show off the screen to a friend and the security guard was like THERES SOMETHING CALLED AN EPAD THATS GONNA KILL THE IPAD APPLES GOING DOWN YOURE GONNA BURN IN HELL and I was like, one, I don't follow Apple obsessively but I kind of don't think they're gonna lose to an "epad", and, two, I don't give a shit, pretty much all I care about is pretty screens and pretty processors.

All of this is to say that I have friends who own Droid and not iPhone and while I'd never get one myself it's not like I disagree with their choice of phone. It's a fucking phone. I call people and I write text messages. My fucking B&W phone could do that back in 2002 or whenever I first got a fucking cell phone. Unless your phone can't do those two things, hey, guess what, you got a goddamned phone. Good purchase.

I do like Apple's advertising, though, because they tell me in thirty seconds why I should give a shit about their phone. iPhone 4? Big screen, video chat, read books. Six words and I'm sold. Droid? 5 megapixel camera? Open app store? Is that fucking all? All these goddamned buzz words. I find it ironic that Apple, king of advertising, hasn't used a buzz word in its ads for about forever. They use words that children understand. And I'm basically a child in this argument because I don't spend all day reading up on fucking phones.

Android doesn't bother me. Android USERS don't bother me. But Android FANS piss the everliving shit out of me, not because I don't think they have points, but because for some reason the only points they ever bring up are ones I don't give a shit about, and when I tell them I don't give a shit then they tell me I must be fascist/homosexual. Saying I suck dick for Apple got old how long ago?

If you'd told me last year that your Android phone does videochat then I would have been TOTALLY ON YOUR SIDE. Tell me now what awesome thing Android does that my phone doesn't and I'll be like WOW. But things that don't count are things like multitasking, because I don't give a shit, or open source backing, because I don't give a shit, or set a background for your phone, because I don't give a shit. Marketing is about SELLING ME SOMETHING I WANT and apparently Android has nothing I or any sane human being wants. Which is why Android doesn't run TV ads. Google's not stupid, they know we don't give a fuck. We want phones. We want phones. We want phones. I might buy an Android phone but not for Android.

(This is the first Apple-related comment I've made in six months and I think I'll try to make it the last one I make on this site. Apple's a fucking company who makes nice products. That is the entirety of my relationship with them. I don't talk about the people who make my headphones. Or the people who produce my pillow. The only company I feel an emotional connection with is Vitsoe because look at those goddamn shelves, those shelves could make a sinner motherfucking cry.)
posted by Rory Marinich at 6:09 AM on July 20, 2010 [29 favorites]


Wow. Concise like Mel Gibson there Rory.
posted by GuyZero at 6:18 AM on July 20, 2010 [6 favorites]


nobody in their right mind gives a FUCK about an open source phone software

People in their right mind sound kind of short-sighted.
posted by DU at 6:20 AM on July 20, 2010 [4 favorites]


Ironically, the reason I didn't delete the post earlier is because I don't carry any type of mobile device with me. I already do almost all my work online, Mefi-midnight-modding aside.

I was walking from one part of the city to the other, taking in the sounds of the city, the nice London weather and letting my thoughts drift. I do have a mobile phone but it's a Cheapo Samsung I got for £5 that does little more than make calls. It is pay-as-you-go. I also usually leave it at home. I only carry it when I know I might need to make or receive calls somewhere else.

My time away from computing devices is, for me, a blessing not a curse. Everything can wait.
posted by vacapinta at 6:33 AM on July 20, 2010 [9 favorites]


Dude, LG so totally crushes Samsung. I can't believe you own a shitty phone like that.
posted by KokuRyu at 6:37 AM on July 20, 2010 [4 favorites]


Not that anyone should care, but I'm really tired of talking about telephones.
posted by MarshallPoe at 7:01 AM on July 20, 2010


Kind of like how women can "just get another job" if harassed at work or the poor can "just move somewhere else" when a landfill moves in next door?

Or buy a new expensive ass smart phone when the one they currently have doesn't let them run plan9.

One of these things is not like the other.
posted by chunking express at 7:05 AM on July 20, 2010 [2 favorites]


The first rule of mobile phone fight thread...
posted by mr_crash_davis mark II: Jazz Odyssey at 7:35 AM on July 20, 2010


All mid-range smartphones these days can play Quake 2 at 60 FPS. I recently bought Theif 2, which recommends 400mhz, my phone has 600mhz. I could play Theif 2 on my goddamn phone. I don't get why people are making a big deal over which phone is better or not, since they can all do amazing things already.

the android vs iphone debate dosen't have the professional vs. artistic argument that mac vs pc had.

It would be nice if Android threads could stay android, and people would keep comments relating to other devices at a minimum.
posted by hellojed at 7:36 AM on July 20, 2010


This is all now firmly ideological territory. My party vs. your party, plus the plausible illusion that it's all of life or death importance. People do apparently seek out such things to add to their lives, as if there weren't enough already.

In practical terms, it adds a recurrent stink to MeFi. I think if all the phone-war threads were nuked from space I surely wouldn't miss them.
posted by argybarg at 7:38 AM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]


I have a HTC HD2 that runs windows mobile, it frightens the crap out of me and I can't even work out how to answer it when it rings. Thanks for the expensive gift, geeky relative who has scarred me for life! I use it as a mobile clock and in an emergency will ask a passing stranger to call an ambulance on it.
posted by shinybaum at 7:38 AM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]


I like how both of you have tried to equate my disagreement about this with the currently active threads on sexism.

Oh for God's sake, it's just an analogy. Of course sexism is a larger issue, but my point was that you're offering comments about whether a discussion is relevant or not based on your personally limited view on the subject and completely missing the points about what the arguments are about.
posted by new brand day at 7:50 AM on July 20, 2010


I have an iPhone. You'll pry it out of my cold dead hands. I think it's the best thing out there. This said, I could give a rat's ass what you have. The only way I am going to care is if I have to borrow it.
posted by cjorgensen at 7:50 AM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]


While I understand and appreciate the mods' policy of not auto-deleting anything that falls under specific topics, honestly I wouldn't cry a bit if we stopped new product threads at all, particularly for smartphones and Apple/MS/Linux, unless there is some serious meat to the posts. And serious doesn't mean OMG AWESOME FEATURES or BALLMER IS A DICK, FILM AT ELEVEN. It means serious discussions about issues that matter -- not piss fights between handset manufacturers or OS coders or cell carriers.

Those threads always go exactly the same way with exactly the same handful of people saying exactly the same thing over and over and over (and honestly? Guys? You know exactly who you are, and it's okay that you're not embarrassed, because I'm embarrassed enough for all of you with room for more) and ultimately it's just a big moderating headache that accomplishes el zippo.

So, dear mods, if you want some feedback from users on this, here's my vote that these posts automatically get shitcanned unless they clear a very, very high bar. They have zero positive impact on the site and your quality of life. Not a new position, I know, but I feel it bears emphasis.
posted by middleclasstool at 7:52 AM on July 20, 2010 [3 favorites]


and honestly? Guys? You know exactly who you are, and it's okay that you're not embarrassed, because I'm embarrassed enough for all of you with room for more

Hey thanks for snotty condescending attitude! You could just avoid the thread, you know, rather than reading them to the extent that you know all the players.
posted by new brand day at 7:56 AM on July 20, 2010 [3 favorites]


box : Do we need to have yet another x fight thread?

Oh for fuck's sake, what is it about X that gets every fanboy's defensive hackles up? Y is just as good and and takes up less space.

But honestly, you are all doing yourself a disservice by being so dismissive of Z. Seriously, in five years, Z is going to completely own the market in online disagreements.

I'm not saying that X isn't good, it's just not the be-all, end-all when it comes to fight threads.
posted by quin at 7:58 AM on July 20, 2010 [3 favorites]


First step: tell your library that audio books can be obtained in formats other than for iPhone.

This has nothing to do with MetaFilter, but I made a whole room of nerds applaud by telling them that libraries were purchasers of some of the most terrible software on the planet and that we owed it to our patrons to get platform independent content or we were just shills. That said, I have no idea what an iphone-only format looks like for audiobooks, is it something you buy straight from the iTunes store? And then it won't play on your computer? I'm used to the reverse, stuff that only plays on PCs. MeMail me details. I'm on it.

Oh and everyone, stop hollering at each other about phones unless you can do it without being a total hectoring feeb.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:05 AM on July 20, 2010 [11 favorites]


new brand day: “You are completely and utterly missing the point. It's not just a phone, it's freaking computer that contains important aspects of not only people's lives, but their business. These devices are extremely important and getting more important as they get more powerful. To dismiss them as just phones is about the equivalent of condescending know it all male opining about when and how women should feel harassed.”

Okay, so let's just think about this little point here for a moment:

You just compared yourself – a male person who presumably uses smart phones to do computer things and finds himself 'condescended to' by luddites who say 'it's just a phone' – to women who find them condescended to by know-it-all sexists who tell them how they should feel when they're harassed.

That seems obviously silly, so I'll leave it right there. All that aside, at the risk of putting words in someone's mouth I guess I'll correct the bit in cj_'s statement that you didn't like, since cj_ is apparently not around any more to do it. It's just a computer. Get over it. It is not the beginning or the end of anything, much less the world.
posted by koeselitz at 8:07 AM on July 20, 2010 [2 favorites]


I should probably stop reading this thread before I say something I will regret.
posted by entropicamericana at 8:11 AM on July 20, 2010


Hey thanks for snotty condescending attitude! You could just avoid the thread, you know, rather than reading them to the extent that you know all the players.

I do, and have for a while now. But I'd also like to see the community improved by removing the same tired, endlessly-recycled fights whenever they threaten to crop up. They're bad for the site, and they're moderating headaches that bear no fruit -- I'd be willing to lay money that at least a couple of the mods make sure they have clear schedules on Apple product launch days, which, if true, shouldn't have to be. And if it's snotty condescension to point out that grownups should be able to police their own behavior better and exercise some restraint, then yes, I am snottily condescending.
posted by middleclasstool at 8:12 AM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]


new brand day: “Oh for God's sake, it's just an analogy.”

A dimwitted and rather Godwin-esque analogy. 'This is like SEXISM!' Oh, come on now – it isn't, and you know it's not.
posted by koeselitz at 8:12 AM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]


I read somewhere that they use the iPhone in Israel while Android is taking off in the West Bank and Gaza.

What do people think about that?

/ducks
posted by MuffinMan at 8:16 AM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]


Circumstances are forcing me into buying my first ever telephone (other than the land line). I wonder whether there are any phone threads here that would be actually useful...
posted by pracowity at 8:24 AM on July 20, 2010


I read somewhere that they use the iPhone in Israel while Android is taking off in the West Bank and Gaza.

Well, if the Android folks could manage to come up with a usable circumcision app, maybe they wouldn't be losing that market...
posted by equalpants at 8:24 AM on July 20, 2010


Rory Marinich: “The only company I feel an emotional connection with is Vitsoe because look at those goddamn shelves, those shelves could make a sinner motherfucking cry.”

Those are really nice shelves. Heck, I stared at them for ten minutes, thinking about how maybe it'd be nice to get some very pretty shelves now that I have a place and a job and everything. That was before I scrolled down and saw that the base (pre-cabinet, six-shelf) model is $1143.00. Wow.
posted by koeselitz at 8:34 AM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]


I guess I'll correct the bit in cj_'s statement that you didn't like, since cj_ is apparently not around any more to do it. It's just a computer. Get over it.

No, I must not be explaining clearly, my apologies.

My dislike of cj_'s statement was the dismissal of something that was important to others (myself included), while refusing to see the larger points of why that might be important to those others.

But I'd also like to see the community improved by removing the same tired, endlessly-recycled fights whenever they threaten to crop up.

That could be said about any number of subjects on the site.

A dimwitted and rather Godwin-esque analogy. 'This is like SEXISM!'

No, here's what I wrote emphasis: "To dismiss them as just phones is about the equivalent of condescending know it all male opining about when and how women should feel harassed."

The point I was trying to make was that not a direct comparison, but a similar mindset that cj_ was exhibiting.
posted by new brand day at 8:35 AM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]


Wow.

You don't want to look at the pricelist for chairs then.
posted by le morte de bea arthur at 8:35 AM on July 20, 2010


Calling these posts "mobile phone fights" is to severely miss the point. The issue is control of the future. Does it belong to corporations or does it belong to people?

Anyone who wants to like FIGHT THE FUTURE! over mobile phone stuff is welcome to do so but it would be kind of awesome if they would take it somewhere else. I understand we're inter alia a bunch of mobile-computing nerds, and civil discussions prising apart the details of the product spectrum and differing design/contract/software choices and ideologies of the major players can be good, interesting stuff.

But there's a small handful of people most likely to show up in any thread on the subject who are also the most likely to push it from "interesting civil discussion" territory that is actually good metafiltering of the sort that is open and engaging to any given user with a taste for the subject into stupid "NO U" bullshit of the sort that makes threads totally unappealing to anybody who doesn't specifically want to be part of yet another dumb fucking fight.

It is absolutely frustrating to watch it play out over and over again. It's bad enough that we have to deal with that kind of plot-losing combative shit on actual, legitimately hot-button subjects like human rights or systemic discrimination, but when the same thing is happening in phone gossip threads it's indefensibly ridiculous.

I would really, really love to see most of the small cadre of regulars who take these discussions into stupid rehashes just take a break from the subject or something. Leave a couple comments and then call it a day. Pretend that you don't feel strongly, if strong feelings are responsible for you treating it like something worth getting fighty and alienating fellow users. Ignore people that you have trouble not responding badly to, or get yourself a killfile if you can't manage that with actual self-control. But fuck's sake, cut it out.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:37 AM on July 20, 2010 [13 favorites]


inter alia cortex - seriously? You're dropping your Latin scienta on us? Oh, fortuna.
posted by GuyZero at 8:44 AM on July 20, 2010


I would really, really love to see most of the small cadre of regulars who take these discussions into stupid rehashes just take a break from the subject or something.

This is my feeling too. We get more personal email of the "You HAVE to do something about this!" type [i.e. people not content to just flag] in phone threads than in any other type of thread. I know the topic is important to people and that is just fine, but turning it into "you're a stupidhead if you don't agree with me/share my perspective" back and forth among the same five or ten people is beyond boring. It's actively bad for the site. Walk away or find a site where this sort of culture war is more par for the course.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:45 AM on July 20, 2010 [3 favorites]


Well, if the Android folks could manage to come up with a usable circumcision app, maybe they wouldn't be losing that market...
posted by equalpants at 8:24 AM on July 20 [+] [!]


You know, Muslims get circumcised too.
posted by proj at 8:46 AM on July 20, 2010


What are the mod-approved culture wars, for future reference?
posted by entropicamericana at 8:47 AM on July 20, 2010 [2 favorites]


new brand day: "You could just avoid the thread(...)"

Did you start to feel your soul leave your body as you typed this, dying of hypocrisy?
posted by boo_radley at 8:47 AM on July 20, 2010


Did you start to feel your soul leave your body as you typed this, dying of hypocrisy?

Nope 'cause I sold it back in '06 for one sweet ass electric tuba. Should have probably asked for 57 Chevy, but sometimes you get caught up in the moment, you know?

The point was that if you don't care about the thread, you don't have to read. Since I obviously care about the thread, of course I'd still be reading and participating.
posted by new brand day at 8:51 AM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]


a total hectoring feeb

I have no idea what this means.

Regardless...

Metafilter: a total hectoring feeb
posted by slogger at 8:51 AM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]


Feeb is slang for "feeble-minded."

Feeb: the mod-approved "retard."
posted by entropicamericana at 8:52 AM on July 20, 2010


Calling these posts "mobile phone fights" is to severely miss the point. The issue is control of the future.

That's an awfully grandiose way to describe something that bears more than a passing resemblance to a pair of yomyucks shouting "FORD!" "NO, CHEVY!" "NO, FORD!" at each other for fifty-five minutes at a barbecue that has long since run out of food and beer and fun.

*Pastes decal of Calvin pissing on an iPhone onto BlackBerry*

What are the mod-approved culture wars, for future reference?... Feeb: the mod-approved "retard."

Oh noes, you all forced him to say something he may or may not regret!
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 8:57 AM on July 20, 2010 [4 favorites]


What are the mod-approved culture wars, for future reference?

I think "culture wars" play out pretty fucking badly on the site pretty much across the board. That said, there are a bunch of things that I can at least understand somewhat consistently producing bad, combative, shit-stirring behavior from people who should know better. None of those things is how Apple and Google and Nokia et al are doing in the mobile market.

This should not be a controversial idea. If it is, if the idea that people should not be regularly shitting up the site in pursuit of their personal phone/platform horseracing is too chafing to put up with, the good news is that there are tons and tons of other sites on the internet, some of which are in fact dedicated to analysis and discussion of things like mobile products and providers.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:58 AM on July 20, 2010 [2 favorites]


The Nexus One discussion actually seemed like a pretty well-mannered one, considering, with a couple of people who were either seeking to raise the emotional temperature for uncertain reasons or were doing so as an unintended consequence of being personally enraged.

Which is the bit that confuses me - between the ALLCAPS, the Title Case, the interpersonal aggression and the general invective it feels like there are people involved who are pretty fundamentally affected. Which is why the Godwinesque analogies don't feel wholly inappropriate - because, judging from the reactions, perceived disrespect of a particular application, operating system or mobile platform must be being experienced very viscerally and personally - the way that people who have to deal with sexism, racism or other forms of discrimination might experience being confronted with those.

Is there profit in investigating why those feelings are experienced so deeply?Or is it just one of those chthonic elements not susceptible to examination or remedy?
posted by DNye at 9:00 AM on July 20, 2010


The funny thing was, after reading a blog post at the NYT regarding the press conference on the new iPhone, it was filled with Apple lovers defending Jobs. Made me miss this place.
posted by Ironmouth at 9:04 AM on July 20, 2010


Feeb: the mod-approved "retard."

Honestly, if you've got some sort of axe to grind, use your words. This has been an annoying few days here and I'm finding the constant barbs tiring.

Otherwise, I'd like to point out that the cultural history behind feeb and retard are worlds apart. I'm one of those people who is too touchy to even use the word spaz any more [on the site] because I know it resonates differently in the UK. So yeah, feeb to me is one of those words like idiot where what I am actually saying is yes, those people seem to be having a conversation as if they had a low IQ. If this has been used somewhere as a playground taunt such that my using it is in some way unkind to actual people, do let me know and I'll just write longer more agonized sentences about how I think people are acting like people of lesser intelligence than they actually are, but it's not quite as punchy and I'm still not awake.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:05 AM on July 20, 2010 [8 favorites]


The Pauli Shore Exclusion principle.

Anything trivial held up for rigorous debate may not have two arguments in the same quantum state. Any such debate must perforce be anti-symmetrical and thus prat-fall.
posted by Babblesort at 9:06 AM on July 20, 2010


The problem I had with the Nexus One thread is that BP popped in to post an anti-Google article that had nothing to do with the Nexus One. We all know where he stands on the issue of Android vs iPhone, so I though that was pretty disingenuous. And it did a very good job of derailing the post, which I guess was his goal. It reminds me of someone posting to a political thread: "well, that's good of Obama but what about Don't Ask Don't Tell?"
posted by smackfu at 9:07 AM on July 20, 2010 [2 favorites]


I hate phones.
posted by batmonkey at 9:08 AM on July 20, 2010 [4 favorites]


The seriousness of all sides in these debates is actually quite frightening to me. Not because of the points being made but the fact that it's become so passionately necessary (for many) to make such points, and bluntly, this passion is no doubt being factored into the marketing strategies of various companies/service providers.

So yeah, even if I agree with that Windows sucks and Mac doesn't (or visa versa), my annoyance at being "marketed-to" by a sucker far outweighs it.
posted by philip-random at 9:09 AM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]


As someone who has a cellphone but not a smartphone I went on those phone threads to see if I might learn something. The only thing I learnt is that my nerd-rage is very low compared to others.
posted by ob at 9:12 AM on July 20, 2010



You know, Muslims get circumcised too.

Shit, how did I not know that? Somehow I thought it was just a Jewish and American thing. Thanks for the correction!

posted by equalpants at 9:14 AM on July 20, 2010


I am pro-feeb and anti-having-to-write-agonized-sentences. I like "feeb." I think I first noted it in "The Body," in King's Different Seasons.

It's non-specific, in that it doesn't really say, "You have Fragile X" or "Your infancy was filled with numerous instances of clinically significant levels of hypoxia." It is a good way to mix up it up, because "stupid" gets tiring. "Feeble" has this implication that you could do better, if you buffed up a bit, rather than a "you are condemned to this sad little level of intellect forever."

Also, I imagine anyone using it in wizard robes and a pointy hat, hitting someone with a Ray of St00pid, so that's a plus.
posted by adipocere at 9:19 AM on July 20, 2010 [2 favorites]


I hear you, philip-random. (Because I'm on Verizon with a 52-year-old mobile, natch).
posted by Mister_A at 9:21 AM on July 20, 2010


It's kind of ironic that the very next post is Blazecock Pileon making an Apple post.

Hey, that's a good post.
posted by Artw at 9:32 AM on July 20, 2010


It's also not ironic, so I apologize for that. It's coincidental. Damn you Alanis.
posted by smackfu at 9:33 AM on July 20, 2010


I don't read phone threads for the most part, and I see a lot of genuinely nasty/offensive things posted in political threads, so it's pretty surprising to hear that phone threads are the most likely to generate complaints. I did participate in the recent Apple press conference thread, and I noticed that a lot of the personal "hater/fanboi" back-and-forth included comments about taking the high road or leading by example. And it seemed to me that many participants were leading by example, by ignoring the fighty sub-thread and just having a conversation around it.
posted by cribcage at 9:34 AM on July 20, 2010


Reagrding the deleted post, the Kin thread is also still open, though largely inactive.
posted by Artw at 9:41 AM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]


People who get all hot under the collar in phone threads should not go to meetups. Every meetup I go to, about half the mefites pull out their smartphones when they get there - many iPhones, many other kinds of smartphones - and then? Then we don't talk about them! That's right! We drink beer and talk about other stuff, and not whether [foo] is better than [bar] for leaving a note in the meetup thread telling latecomers what table we're at! No one calls anyone else a shithead for using [thisphone] instead of [thatphone].

We're clearly doing it wrong.
posted by rtha at 9:47 AM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]


Yeah, I'm pretty sure if cellphones can give you cancer anyone who has been to a meet-up is fucked. I always look for the largest concentration of them.

(I do end up talking about them too, sometimes, but hey, tech nerd)
posted by Artw at 9:55 AM on July 20, 2010


MetaFilter: Wrong on [foo]. Wrong on [bar]. Wrong for America.


Paid for by the Real Americans Read Something Awful Committee.
posted by Mister_A at 9:58 AM on July 20, 2010 [2 favorites]


Otherwise, I'd like to point out that the cultural history behind feeb and retard are worlds apart.

Since someone else brought it up, "feeb" is not a word with pleasant connotations for me. When I was a kid, other kids used to say that about my father, who was physically disabled.

It's a small thing, and in wider perspective perhaps that's just a pet peeve of mine. I suppose it's not a terribly negative word when used to describe others. I'm certainly not going to ask anyone here not to use it. But yes, I was a little surprised by it.
posted by zarq at 10:02 AM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]


I prefer wuss to feeb. As far as I know, it has no connotation to anything, except it just doesn't sound remotely tough.
posted by philip-random at 10:11 AM on July 20, 2010


If this has been used somewhere as a playground taunt such that my using it is in some way unkind to actual people, do let me know and I'll just write longer more agonized sentences about how I think people are acting like people of lesser intelligence than they actually are, but it's not quite as punchy and I'm still not awake.

And for whatever it's worth... you don't have to do this. At least not on my account. I do understand what you were trying to convey.

I just wanted to point out that the word gave me pause, and why.
posted by zarq at 10:16 AM on July 20, 2010


I prefer wuss to feeb. As far as I know, it has no connotation to anything, except it just doesn't sound remotely tough.

Oh funny. For me it's always meant wimp + pussy and so the connotation was wimp + girl = insult. No huge deal obviously. And I learned feeb from a Kliban cartoon and had never heard it "in the wild" before. Thanks for the info zarq.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 10:17 AM on July 20, 2010


Ya know, sometimes it seems like you just can't fling poo into a crowd these days without getting poo on people.
posted by pracowity at 10:23 AM on July 20, 2010 [6 favorites]


And I learned feeb from a Kliban cartoon and had never heard it "in the wild" before.

I learned "feeb" from my lover; he and his former lover used it. And I never heard anybody else use it. So for a long time, I thought it was an in-jokey type thing from them, or else a North Dakota thing. I use it but it has always sounded vaguely able-ist to me and I would be interested in an etymology.
posted by not that girl at 10:23 AM on July 20, 2010


Love to eat them mouseys.
posted by mendel at 10:24 AM on July 20, 2010 [2 favorites]


Feeb. Feeble. Feeble-minded.
posted by pracowity at 10:25 AM on July 20, 2010


For me it's always meant wimp + pussy and so the connotation was wimp + girl = insult.

pussy != girl.

pussy = fraidy-cat
posted by Sys Rq at 10:26 AM on July 20, 2010


wimp also means girl. I forget the precise etymology, but I recall being taught that wimp was ultimately a bastardization of "women," or something along those lines.
posted by shmegegge at 10:27 AM on July 20, 2010


The etymology of wimp is uncertain. It is generally assumed to derive from whimper.
posted by Sys Rq at 10:30 AM on July 20, 2010


pussy != girl.
pussy = fraidy-cat


If that were true, we'd expect to see it be evenly distributed (as an insult) between genders though, right?
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 10:31 AM on July 20, 2010


Look, just download this, scroll through it and pick one.
posted by Artw at 10:31 AM on July 20, 2010


I prefer wuss to feeb

I prefer pea-brained. Which isn't insulting to anyone except arguably literate peas, people who've gone to a horticulturist for major neurosurgery or rare survivors of an as yet undiscovered illness that causes massive neurological shrinkage.
posted by MuffinMan at 10:33 AM on July 20, 2010


You might expect that, except that it's much worse to be perceived as cowardly for a man/boy, compared with a woman or girl.
posted by Mister_A at 10:34 AM on July 20, 2010


And for whatever it's worth... you don't have to do this. At least not on my account. I do understand what you were trying to convey.

So why didn't you keep your trap shut and give Jessamyn a break?
posted by Crabby Appleton at 10:34 AM on July 20, 2010


Responding to this, was I.
posted by Mister_A at 10:34 AM on July 20, 2010


"Pussy" also conveys the idea of powerlessness/weakness, an idea that is, unfortunately, bound to the concept of femininity among many poorly-developed intellects.
posted by Mister_A at 10:38 AM on July 20, 2010


Those of you who deplore "feeb" could try "simp" (short for simple-minded). Or if you don't care, "simps and feebs" has a nice ring to it. (Don't remember where I first saw that.) Sometimes when reading MetaFilter, I sing a little jingle to myself, to the tune of Cher's Gypsies, Tramps and Thieves: "Assholes, simps and feebs, ..."
posted by Crabby Appleton at 10:39 AM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]


pussy = fraidy-cat

I think it's overdetermined.
posted by Crabby Appleton at 10:40 AM on July 20, 2010


To the OED!
feeb
A feeble-minded person; a ‘dumb’ person.

1914 Bookman XXXIX. 432/1 Feeb? Oh, that's feeble-minded. I thought you knew. We're all feebs in here. 1931 W. FAULKNER Sanctuary (1932) i. 8, I cook. I cook for crimps and spungs and feebs. Yes, I cook. 1968 E. FENWICK Disturbance on Berry Hill vii. 51 ‘He really is the sweetest guy,’ Georgia said wistfully. ‘Sometimes I envy that pretty little feeb of his. Suppose if I played dumber I could get one too.’
Gives the etymology simply as "Short for FEEBLE-minded, which itself goes way back, e.g.

1534 TINDALE 1 Thess. v. 14 Comforte the *feble mynded.

As for the "wimp" speculation, OED agrees but with no real detail:
[Origin uncertain; perh. an abbreviated corruption of women.]
A woman or girl.
‘Wimp was also used as a verb at Oxford c. 1917, e.g. to go wimping’ (M. Marples, University Slang (1950), p. 98).

1923 J. MANCHON Le Slang 338 Wimp, femme, fille, donzelle. 1937 PARTRIDGE Dict. Slang 959/1 Wimp, a (young) woman, a girl: from ca. 1920. 1940 [see Skinny Liz s.v. SKINNY a. 6].
For "wuss" it again declares the origin uncertain, and does explicitly mention the theory that it's a combination of "wimp" and "puss".

The entry for "pussy" is far too long to quote, and contains a real panoply of uses covering every thing from "woman who is nice like a cat" (five hundred years ago) to "woman who is awful like a cat" (more recently) to "man who is awful like a woman" and "man who is totally a homo".
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:44 AM on July 20, 2010


Don't pull the thang out, unless you plan to bang
Bombs over Baghdad!
posted by chunking express at 10:44 AM on July 20, 2010 [2 favorites]


We get more personal email of the "You HAVE to do something about this!" type [i.e. people not content to just flag] in phone threads than in any other type of thread.

I don't know whether to laugh or take my Nokia out to dinner and a movie. That is truly stunning.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 10:48 AM on July 20, 2010


I'm not surprised. I think it's because the mods seem rather hands off with these threads, compared to other contentious debates.
posted by smackfu at 10:51 AM on July 20, 2010


So why didn't you keep your trap shut and give Jessamyn a break?

She asked for clarification. I answered. She thanked me. So I'm really not under the impression that either of my two comments gave her a hard time.
posted by zarq at 10:51 AM on July 20, 2010


FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS
posted by jeffamaphone at 10:57 AM on July 20, 2010


Great taste!

Less Filling!

GREAT TASTE!

LESS FILLING!

posted by ericb at 10:59 AM on July 20, 2010


Why is everybody mad about the cups phones?
posted by Babblesort at 10:59 AM on July 20, 2010


Juggalos in A-10s, dropping iPhones like bombs on your mom.
posted by Burhanistan at 11:04 AM on July 20, 2010


You know, there's one user in particular who is a major part of the problem, to the point where it's becoming a running joke on the site, and yet there don't seem to be any repercussions for his behavior.
posted by aspo at 11:06 AM on July 20, 2010 [6 favorites]


This comment makes me want to buy a sockpuppet account named 'iPhone.'
posted by box at 11:08 AM on July 20, 2010


I think it's because the mods seem rather hands off with these threads

You have to be with that new iPhone.
posted by le morte de bea arthur at 11:09 AM on July 20, 2010 [5 favorites]


This sort of stuff is the perfect anti-advertisement for "smart" pones.
posted by edgeways at 11:10 AM on July 20, 2010


> You have to be with that new iPhone.

B-but Steve said to hold it differently!
posted by Burhanistan at 11:11 AM on July 20, 2010


Taters gonna tate.
posted by mr.marx at 11:13 AM on July 20, 2010 [5 favorites]


You know, there's one user in particular who is a major part of the problem, to the point where it's becoming a running joke on the site, and yet there don't seem to be any repercussions for his behavior.

Is it Rory Marinich? It's Rory Marinich, isn't it? Say it's Rory Marinich.

I just like to type Rory Marinich. Rory Marinich.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 11:15 AM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]


I had absolutely no idea of the feminine etymological origins of "wimp." At any rate, I love that cortex just spent a non-trivial amount of time scouring the OED for pussy.
posted by Skot at 11:16 AM on July 20, 2010


There is one user in particular who is a major part of the problem, yes, and we've talked to him about cutting the shit and that has gone okay at times but may need some re-upping since it seems like it's been more of a problem again lately. There are several other users who are also contributing on that front who also need to cool it, some of whom we've also talked to. And everybody needs to do a better job of not reacting annoyingly to one another's bullshit.

Ultimately, being one-note and obnoxious on a specific topic isn't something that is going to get you banned so much as get some of your shit deleted and net some frustrated email from us telling you to cut it out if you don't want some involuntary time off or something.

I know that in a sense that makes "repercussions" a binary sort of thing—if someone's not banned, they aren't banned—but please be assured that it's not some thing where when people get axe-grindy about something we just shrug and laugh and say "oh, you know how THEY are..."
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:16 AM on July 20, 2010


Juggalos in A-10s, dropping iPhones like bombs on your mom.

Speaking of Juggalos, I thought of the perfect Juggalo name for myself: Professor Homicide!
posted by Mister_A at 11:17 AM on July 20, 2010


Your juggalo name is an educational/medical title followed by a crime, e.g., Dean Larceny or Disturbing the Peace M.D.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 11:20 AM on July 20, 2010 [4 favorites]


As long anything remotely related to Google or Apple doesn't become one of the "Things Metafilter doesn't do well" then that seems more than fair. (And that includes the other people needing to chill out about it bits as well.)
posted by aspo at 11:20 AM on July 20, 2010


That seemed like a good approach to me. Still, I know little of Juggalo nomenclature and the rules and mores that govern it. Yet I challenge anyone to say that "Disturbing the Peace M.D." isn't evocatively Juggalonian.
posted by Mister_A at 11:22 AM on July 20, 2010


Can we use military titles? I like Rear Admiral Tax Evasion, myself.
posted by middleclasstool at 11:23 AM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]


I think Rear Admiral is good, but your crime lacks panache. How about Rear Admiral Swindle?
posted by Mister_A at 11:24 AM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]


Colonel Loiter
posted by Babblesort at 11:25 AM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]


Or 2nd Lieutenant Disturbing the Peace? That's pretty good, you can totally use that one.
posted by Mister_A at 11:25 AM on July 20, 2010


Adjunct Professor Wire Fraud
posted by box at 11:28 AM on July 20, 2010


I want to be Undersecretary of Sodomy in the First Degree.
posted by adipocere at 11:28 AM on July 20, 2010


Ensign Unauthorized Use of a Conveyance

or

Chief Petty Officer Drunk and Disorderly (on a train)

*both of the above crimes are real crimes I found in old court minutes
posted by marxchivist at 11:29 AM on July 20, 2010


Kernel Panic

Wait, I think I'm doing it wrong.
posted by kmz at 11:29 AM on July 20, 2010 [2 favorites]


Dr. Endocrinologist Frottage PhD., laying down some wicked beats!
posted by Skot at 11:29 AM on July 20, 2010


Lord High Admiral Impersonating a Chelsea Pensioner
posted by le morte de bea arthur at 11:32 AM on July 20, 2010


I have a friend with the deliciously dope-ass moniker, "Deputy Undersecretary of State for Political Affairs Illegal U-Turn."
posted by Mister_A at 11:34 AM on July 20, 2010


I noticed that they changed the Mello Yello logo and put in a yellow background. I'd always wondered why it was green. I guess because the soda is kinda green-ish. Then why put the word "yello" in the name?

And don't get me started on "Mr. Pibb Xtra". Like regular Mr. Pibb wasn't good enough and couldn't compete against its competition, delicious yummy Dr. Pepper, America's oldest soft drink?

And no, it DOESN'T have prune juice in it, that's a fucking LIE spread by jealous Coca-Cola executives who can't compete with such a superior product.

Disagree and I will cut you.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 11:37 AM on July 20, 2010


Hello, I am Sgt. Schlong.
posted by Burhanistan at 11:40 AM on July 20, 2010


Schlong isn't a crime or misdemeanor AFAIK. Consider "Sgt. Playing With His Schlong in Public."
posted by Mister_A at 11:51 AM on July 20, 2010


Commandant Public Indecency, D.D.S.
posted by shmegegge at 11:55 AM on July 20, 2010


I have the most awesome mobile phone!
posted by SteveInMaine at 12:07 PM on July 20, 2010


Anyone who wants to like FIGHT THE FUTURE! over mobile phone stuff is welcome to do so but it would be kind of awesome if they would take it somewhere else.

Perhaps if we didn't have the annual post-day-fest about APPLE'S LATEST AWESOME PRODUCT that would help. I still fail to understand how that breathless, recurrent coverage isn't, well, Pepsi Blue.

Feeb: the mod-approved "retard."

MacFeeb. Freefeeb. iFeed. Fuckfeeb. It doesn't have the same ring to it.

And everybody needs to do a better job of not reacting annoyingly to one another's bullshit.

It would be nice, though to be able to have technology threads, or threads about ganmes, or cool web sites, or anything that currently routinely degenrates into a collective shit-fit about the links (a) not being adequately Apple specific, (b) revenrential of Apple products, or (c) running on a Mac.

It's kind of embarrassing to think that a visitor to the site might see a link to, say, a cool use of photographs and then go to look at the 'discussion' to see it's a juvenile shit-fight over Silverlight.
posted by rodgerd at 12:08 PM on July 20, 2010 [3 favorites]


Nice to meet you Sarge. I'm Defcon Defecation. They say my rapping is like crapping but it's the other way round, my stinky beats go ploppin and eyes'll water cross town, so put your head up under and get an earful of this rhyme, cause my potent poopin (done in public) is a federal crime.
posted by fleacircus at 12:08 PM on July 20, 2010 [3 favorites]


Like regular Mr. Pibb wasn't good enough and couldn't compete against its competition, delicious yummy Dr. Pepper, America's oldest soft drink?
As a matter of record, I feel compelled to tell you that there is no period after the "Dr" in Dr Pepper. This fact is acknowledged in the Associated Press Stylebook. I know this because I am the person responsible for having it included back in the early 1970s. The reason there is no period is the result of an italicized type face used in the early 1950s. The period after the "r" appeared to look like a colon because of the font used. The result appeared to be "Di: Pepper". Not only was the period dropped, but the font was soon changed. There is really no reason for a period since we're not a member of the medical profession, or even degreed.
-Jim Ball (Sr. V.P. Corporate Communications at Dr Pepper)
posted by SpiffyRob at 12:09 PM on July 20, 2010 [4 favorites]


It would be nice, though to be able to have technology threads, or threads about ganmes, or cool web sites, or anything that currently routinely degenrates into a collective shit-fit about the links (a) not being adequately Apple specific, (b) revenrential of Apple products, or (c) running on a Mac.

To be honest, I think it's just slop-over from the rest of the internet.
posted by smackfu at 12:10 PM on July 20, 2010


I think we should create an area of the site to be called "metafight," with open threads that never close on Israel/Palestine, Apple vs Google/Microsoft, Is Mefi A Boyzone?, Circumcision, and Declawing Cats. Then whenever anyone is feeling fighty they can go get it out of their system sort of like a "Rants and Raves" area.

I too prefer Nokia, by the way. The only brand of phone that doesn't bust when you look at it funny or hold it wrong.

Love the idea of Calvin-pissing-on-an-X-phone stickers for smartphones. Someone could get rich with that one.
posted by fourcheesemac at 12:17 PM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]


Marisa Stole the Precious Thing: "Your juggalo name is an educational/medical title followed by a crime, e.g., Dean Larceny or Disturbing the Peace M.D"

Bursar Incitement?
posted by boo_radley at 12:19 PM on July 20, 2010


Oh, I meant: Hello, I am Sergeant Schlong Exposure on the Subway.
posted by Burhanistan at 12:22 PM on July 20, 2010


MetaTalk is such a bozozone.
posted by fleacircus at 12:25 PM on July 20, 2010


Master Gunnery Sergeant Conspiracy To Distribute A Controlled Dangerous Substance?
posted by elizardbits at 12:26 PM on July 20, 2010


Bursar Incitement?

Archchancellor Ridcully?
posted by quin at 12:27 PM on July 20, 2010 [2 favorites]


I think we should create an area of the site to be called "metafight,"

On Ars Technica, they have "The Battlefront", which has threads like "The iPhone 4 is a complete and utter failure and I'll tell you why" and "Android experience from a 2nd gen iPhone user" (not positive).
posted by smackfu at 12:29 PM on July 20, 2010


Vicar Voyeurism
posted by Burhanistan at 12:29 PM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]


MC Admin Snuffing?
posted by charred husk at 12:36 PM on July 20, 2010


Doesn't "feeble-minded" have legal and medical history as a term used to designate developmentally delayed people or other "mental deviants"? This ain't my area of expertise, but I'm pretty sure there were lots of Homes for the Feeble-Minded and the like.

"Feeb" is just the mean slang version.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:36 PM on July 20, 2010


Doesn't "feeble-minded" have legal and medical history as a term used to designate developmentally delayed people or other "mental deviants"? This ain't my area of expertise, but I'm pretty sure there were lots of Homes for the Feeble-Minded and the like.

Yeah, but so do "moron," "idiot," "imbecile," etc.
posted by Sys Rq at 12:40 PM on July 20, 2010


It probably did. I think "feeb" is so far behind the Euphemism Treadmill at this point that you would have to:

1) Acquaint someone with the term "feeb."
2) Explain that it is short for "feeble-minded."
3) Provide additional background as to the historical use of feeble-minded in some official context.
4) Hook that up to a "retard-equivalence."

At the point where you have a populace largely unaware of the existence, much less the origins of the term and you then have to then educate them to be offended, I'm going to put that off the offensive radar.
posted by adipocere at 12:41 PM on July 20, 2010


Bursar Incitement?

Vice Provost Reckless Endangerment
posted by Think_Long at 12:41 PM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]


I would buy a rap album starring Disturbing the Peace M.D.
posted by cavalier at 12:53 PM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]


Also, decrying the real debate over a useless celphone debate is whether corporations or people rule the future is pretty, just, well, wow, there's a field over there. It's pretty far out there. No one is going to build the new universal freecycle enclave on a cellphone thread, just sayin'.
posted by cavalier at 12:54 PM on July 20, 2010


My Juggalo name is henceforth The Very Model Of A Murder Major General.
posted by Shepherd at 12:56 PM on July 20, 2010 [8 favorites]


sometimes it seems like you just can't fling poo

What's a monkey to do?
posted by nomisxid at 1:23 PM on July 20, 2010


No, you're not missing a nuance. It originated in the song "Playas Gon' Play" by 3LW in 2000, and has become the modern version of "Sticks and stones may break my bones".

I just wanted to pop in and say that the "haters" meme was alive and well in Rap music quite a few years before 2000.
posted by P.o.B. at 1:25 PM on July 20, 2010


Private Public Indecency
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 1:26 PM on July 20, 2010 [3 favorites]


If that were true, we'd expect to see it be evenly distributed (as an insult) between genders though, right?

Yep. I don't have the OED handy but I saw something recently where the common derogatory insults to either gender breakdown along the lines of:

Men - lack of manhood
Woman - emotional instability or lack of sexual sanctity
posted by P.o.B. at 1:31 PM on July 20, 2010


Totally right. 3LW is a second-rate TLC that has never originated anything.
posted by box at 1:32 PM on July 20, 2010


No one is going to build the new universal freecycle enclave on a cellphone thread, just sayin'.

I built my house entirely out of cellphones, and now I have hypercancer and IT WON'T STOP RINGING!!!!
posted by dirigibleman at 1:34 PM on July 20, 2010


I've lost count of how many times the same people people drop steaming loads (a recent example is just the tip of what had to be deleted) in my posts where there is even the slightest Apple content.

Even the slimmest historical connection to Apple gets threadshitters.

I even got passive-aggressive trolling for the MacPaint post, when there is absolutely nothing to take offense to.

Let's face it, it's rare that there is a discussion about Apple without some anti-Apple jerk coming in and pushing stupid, fact-free, hateful diatribes about how the users are mindless sheep (they're not), Apple hates developers (they don't) or wants to take over the world (ditto), Steve Jobs' turtleneck sucks (who cares), or some combination or ridiculous mutation of the above (WTF). Even the posts themselves are framed in the same fact-free manner, of late.

I don't fully understand why their posts and comments stay up, but I can guess. Perhaps the mentality of that content is not so much different from comments on Free Republic about how Michael Moore is fat, hur-hur, as a way of consolidating the tribe's anti-left-wing feelings. I dunno. But there's an unmistakeable and troubling you're-with-us-or-you're-against-us vibe in these discussions — even here in this one.

There are at least a couple other users who have been brave enough to stand up to the mob and point out the obvious in the latest outrage threads. So I thank them for standing up, even if they had to deal with a lot of unnecessary abuse for it.

It would be good if the Apple-sux threads disappear. I rarely see any Android-sux or Microsoft-sux threads here so I don't know if those need to go, but if they did I would not miss them. They don't add anything to the front page that people can't already get on Slashdot or Ars Technica, etc.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 1:37 PM on July 20, 2010


we've moved on to juggalo names, now, dude.
posted by shmegegge at 1:52 PM on July 20, 2010


But there's an unmistakeable and troubling you're-with-us-or-you're-against-us vibe in these discussions — even here in this one.

There indeed is, and you're one of the prime causes. As I wrote in one of the many other threads where you seemed to smell a conspiracy on MeFi out to destroy the noble and delicate flower that is Apple Inc., "I'm tired of reading your incessant bleating in every thread tangentially related to Apple. It's boring and you're not doing yourself any favours, nor convincing anyone to change their consumer preferences."
posted by modernnomad at 1:54 PM on July 20, 2010 [7 favorites]


For "wuss" it again declares the origin uncertain, and does explicitly mention the theory that it's a combination of "wimp" and "puss".

which leads to the twenty-three dollar question.

Does the fact that wuss is theoretically a combination of two arguably derogatory terms for women make it:

1. more offensive than either puss or wimp on its own (ie: a magnification)?

2. less offensive because it's more abstracted from the initial derogation?

Seriously, at what point does a word cease to be a culmination of all its linguistic baggage and simply become useful in everyday discussion? That is, we don't seem to have a short (one-word, one-syllable) way of telling someone (either sex, any inclination) to, you know, toughen up, show some backbone, don't be so darned sensitive. But maybe that's the point, of course. Maybe such a dismissal shouldn't be so easy.
posted by philip-random at 1:57 PM on July 20, 2010


juggalo. names.
posted by shmegegge at 1:58 PM on July 20, 2010 [2 favorites]


Let's face it, it's rare that there is a discussion about Apple without some anti-Apple jerk coming in and pushing stupid, fact-free, hateful diatribes

Ok, so you want to talk about this. What motivated you to post this in the Nexus One thread?
posted by smackfu at 1:59 PM on July 20, 2010


Ok, so you want to talk about this.

No, I don't really have much to say to you. Sorry.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 2:00 PM on July 20, 2010


I rarely see any Android-sux or Microsoft-sux threads here

Are you kidding?

The last thread about a Microsoft mobile OS update turned into a bash-Microsoft fest.

Most threads about Microsoft devolve into bash-fests. And there have been quite a few of those. This FPP was more interesting than most, though. It's an article about how much Microsoft sucks.
posted by zarq at 2:00 PM on July 20, 2010


I've read some of them already, and think Wired's headline was exaggerating something that's at the splitting hairs level. From all reports the display is the best one on a smartphone today. I use Apple products, although not an iPhone, and while I don't always agree with Apple's actions and feel they shouldn't be immune to criticism, I'm happy they are around pushing everyone to make better phones, computers, and interfaces.

But at this point it seems like you're shilling for Apple.


That's the entire comment that you have labeled a "steaming load." What the hell is wrong with you? Seriously, it's getting pathological.
posted by aspo at 2:00 PM on July 20, 2010 [4 favorites]


No, I don't really have much to say to you. Sorry.

Ha! This place is so fucking crazy sometimes. Nut jobs all of you.
posted by smackfu at 2:01 PM on July 20, 2010 [3 favorites]


Blazecock, a huge huge part of the problem here is that if you change some nouns around that is essentially the same set of complaints a lot of people have about your behavior as well. It goes both ways, there are a few people who frequently react badly on either side of an Apple-related discussion, and it's those few people in particular, and you especially so among them, that make this whole thing unnecessarily into a clusterfuck.

I don't fully understand why their posts and comments stay up, but I can guess.

Then guess. Or, maybe, ask. But for god's sake, try to understand that people ask the exact same thing about your fighty crap in these threads. We don't delete every obnoxious thing people post in a thread on metafilter, and on the subject of Apple and it's direct competitors specifically a lot of the obnoxious stuff we don't delete is comments you're making. This is not a conspiracy-against-Apple thing, it's a your-behavior-frequently-sucks thing.

Again: not just your behavior. You're not the only person we've had to delete stuff from and say to cool it, and the crappy dynamic that comes out of these discussions is absolutely the responsibility of people going back and forth from both sides. But, again: you are easily at the head of the pack over the long term on this front. This is not something where other people are the culprits and you are the innocent aggrieved party. You really, really need to lay off the reacting badly to other people criticizing Apple, the jumping into potentially anti-Apple or pro-Apple-competition discussions with derails, the resorting to dismissive kissoffs when people fail to agree with you sufficiently.

It's really problematic. It sucks. You're fucking threads up when you do it. I don't particularly want to be getting so bluntly on your case about it in public, but it's been enough of a recurring problem and it seems to be a enough of a blindspot for you that I'm not sure what else is sufficient. You have needed to, and continue to need to, work on this shit.
posted by cortex (staff) at 2:04 PM on July 20, 2010 [50 favorites]


great. now you've ruined it.

AND I HAD THE PERFECT JUGGALO NAME.

Brigadier General Possession of a Controlled Substance with Intent to Distribute, thank you very much.
posted by shmegegge at 2:04 PM on July 20, 2010 [2 favorites]


Field Marshal Treason.
posted by Mister_A at 2:07 PM on July 20, 2010


What the hell is wrong with you?

This belligerence isn't helpful.
posted by zarq at 2:07 PM on July 20, 2010


My juggalo name is Blazecock Pileon.
posted by mullacc at 2:08 PM on July 20, 2010 [4 favorites]


I AM OVERLORD TORTIOUS MISCONDUCT
posted by snuffleupagus at 2:08 PM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]


Blazecock Pileon, I'm not exactly proud of having left that comment (or the Seriously? that preceded it) but I was frustrated with you after your complete derail of the iPhone 4 reception thread, which started when you dropped a comment, thankfully now deleted, on the Android Marketplace problems, which had absolutely nothing to do the discussion (iPhone 4 reception). You continued to make that thread all about your unwavering defense of Apple. That still doesn't excuse me doing to your thread what you have done to many other threads. But since then, as far as I can remember, I've tried to avoid any repeat of that kind of behavior, and I feel your calling me out here is, at best, willfully disingenuous.

You continue to be disruptive and threaten to derail every thread even tangentially related to Apple, Google, Microsoft, or Android. And at this point it's getting extremely tiresome. But don't drag me back into it.
posted by 6550 at 2:14 PM on July 20, 2010 [4 favorites]


I am Horseman Things Not Working Properly Even After You've Given Them A Good Thumping But Secretly No Alcohol Lager
posted by qvantamon at 2:19 PM on July 20, 2010 [2 favorites]


Juggalo Wisdom of the Day #762

What's a juggalo?
He ain't like anybody that you've ever met before.
He'll eat Monopoly and shit out Connect Four.

posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 2:20 PM on July 20, 2010


No, this is just a rehash of the Apple-Mac flamewars that never meant anything and was just years and years of internet arguing.

It may be an important issues but arguing about it here is mindless time-killing.


That's basically how I feel. I especially hate it when these discussions kill threads that aren't even about specific brands, or worse yet, aren't even about mobile computing.

Show some respect for people who don't want to discuss what you want to discuss.
posted by codacorolla at 2:21 PM on July 20, 2010


Is this the point where we all start posting recipes and cat pictures? I like it when that happens.
posted by cgomez at 2:25 PM on July 20, 2010


"Show some respect for people who don't want to discuss what you want to discuss" is a good principle generally, and it's a decent way to politely point the way to to MetaChat or Usenet or wherever else if people want to talk about juggalo names, recipes, cat pictures, etc. Somebody opened a MeTa to discuss a problem that Jessamyn subsequently characterized as one of the most heated on MetaFilter presently, and it's still being discussed—and I don't know that the discussion will necessarily yield anything, but folks are trying and I know there are definitely other places on the Internet to talk about whatever the hell a "juggalo" is.
posted by cribcage at 2:30 PM on July 20, 2010 [9 favorites]


Sure, let me just tether my laptop to my iPhone and I'll send you some.
posted by new brand day at 2:30 PM on July 20, 2010


Well, you sure know how to let the air out of my balloon.

Yours,

Desecration of a Corpse, DDS
posted by Mister_A at 2:33 PM on July 20, 2010


Untersturmführer Hamburgling
posted by middleclasstool at 2:39 PM on July 20, 2010 [6 favorites]


I remember the day Steve Jobs made the iPad presentation. There seemed to be an opening for a post that linked to the live feed, so I hastily put one up that read, in its entirety:

BEHOLD THE MAGNIFICENCE THAT IS iPAD!

(jessamyn rightly deleted it with the comment "Try harder".)

Anyway, the wording was my facetious commentary on the pants-shitting excitement that people were displaying at the introduction of what was, after all, just another consumer electronics product.

Well, it turns out I was wrong about that.

[sent from my iPad]
posted by Joe Beese at 2:44 PM on July 20, 2010


Schlong Face
posted by P.o.B. at 3:44 PM on July 20, 2010


I'll let you people guess if I'm either being beligerent or if that's my Juggalo name.
posted by P.o.B. at 3:44 PM on July 20, 2010


Dr. Impersonating a Doctor
posted by Bookhouse at 4:01 PM on July 20, 2010 [10 favorites]


"Show some respect for people who don't want to discuss what you want to discuss" is a good principle generally, and it's a decent way to politely point the way to to MetaChat or Usenet or wherever else if people want to talk about juggalo names, recipes, cat pictures, etc.

Why? Because they don't want to discuss what you want to discuss?

Teacher's Aide Genocide
posted by Sys Rq at 4:05 PM on July 20, 2010 [2 favorites]


My name is both juggalo and straight.
posted by Meatbomb at 4:13 PM on July 20, 2010


Postmaster Alarming Her Majesty.

Yes, it's a real crime.
posted by Lemurrhea at 4:14 PM on July 20, 2010 [3 favorites]


I'm tempted to start a MetaTalk thread asking if people would consider ceasing the cat-picture recipe-posting thing, but I've been here long enough to know exactly what would happen if I did.
posted by grouse at 4:37 PM on July 20, 2010 [9 favorites]


asking if people would consider ceasing the cat-picture recipe-posting thing

If people really start peanut gallerying it up before the real discussion has wrapped up, we'll tell them to knock it off.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 4:39 PM on July 20, 2010


Barring that, we may tell them to go make a bomb in the kitchen of your mom.
posted by cortex (staff) at 5:01 PM on July 20, 2010


You're not the only person we've had to delete stuff from and say to cool it, and the crappy dynamic that comes out of these discussions is absolutely the responsibility of people going back and forth from both sides.

For what it's worth, I don't recall seeing the mods saying anything in many of those threads that started or turned into Apple vs Google. That doesn't you guys didn't show up, just that I seemed to miss it, to the point where I took that absence to mean "well, as long as they haven't completely descended to Lord of the Flies and keep it in their special corner, whatever we'll leave it alone."

Looking at the recent posts tagged with Apple it's obvious to me that the company is simply in a controversial place with the tech crowd. Compare it to posts with the Google tag and it just seems more clear, IMO. The more tech savvy population of Metafilter ain't happy with aspects of Apple these days and isn't shy about saying at pretty much any opportunity. It just seems to be an uncontrollable fact of online life these days: mention Apple and a fight just starts.
posted by new brand day at 5:04 PM on July 20, 2010


For what it's worth, I don't recall seeing the mods saying anything in many of those threads that started or turned into Apple vs Google.

We do a fair amount of work behind the scenes on this as with any number of other topics. It's hard to know how best to quantify "the various stuff that's not explicitly visible that we do to deal with stuff", so I know that's a little handwavey, but this is a really stark impression we have of the whole thing at this point.

It just seems to be an uncontrollable fact of online life these days: mention Apple and a fight just starts.

To the degree that that's true about Apple, it's true about a lot of other things. And to the degree that it's true on any subject, it's only true here on Metafilter when people decided to say fuck it and enjoin that fight. And when it's the same set of people primarily at the center of those fights and they know each other and one another's positions already and get into the fights anyway, they don't even have the excuse of being surprised by the whole thing. This is why it's so frustrating to see, especially when with a little bit of self-control the 10% of the discussions that descend into stupid alienating bullshit could be elided in the first place and the other 90% could be actual decent discussion unfettered by all that.

People can complain about Apple (and whoever, and they certainly complain about more than just Apple) or defend it or discuss the nitty gritty details without the bullshit. It's doable, and it's even done on a regular basis when the bullshit isn't occurring, as much as anything by the same people who descend into bullshit in their worst moments. Our problem is the number of worst moments. Again, this would be less galling if we were discussing profound social conflicts and not tech companies and device preferences.
posted by cortex (staff) at 5:12 PM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]


Yeah, it's the silent but deadly mod style. I hit F5 sometimes and watch fighty comments just VAMOOSH!

That said, my new juggalo name is 1-8-7 on an undercover cribcage, esquire.
posted by cavalier at 5:15 PM on July 20, 2010


The Honorable Hate Crime

sorry, thought we were still doing that
posted by archivist at 5:19 PM on July 20, 2010


We do a fair amount of work behind the scenes on this as with any number of other topics.

Oh duh, that would make sense. Maybe a more active presence would help? Food for thought, I suppose.

What did someone say Juggalo recipes?
posted by new brand day at 5:20 PM on July 20, 2010


Maybe a more active presence would help?

It's possible, though honestly "active presence" is sort of four-alarm, Shit Is Going Down stuff that we don't want to spend most days on. It's draining to have to sit and watch a thread like a hawk, and to deal in real time with people being obnoxious to each other and try to decide exactly how much intervention is too much.

In general you don't see a whole lot of us being explicitly Moderator Is In The Thread on the blue outside of really weird fighty situations, and I think, question of plain energy resources aside there, that's a pretty good thing by default. I don't feel like making an exception to that specifically for tech threads because generally speaking a few people several of whom we've already had to talk to privately about not being crappy are going to be predictably crappy anyway is a healthy move. If anything if nothing changes it may just have to be giving people time off with less notice if the same cycle of crap keeps playing out. I'm not really hot to do that either, but it's less vague and less time consuming and would at least hopefully get the message across if nothing else is going to work.

Again, and I'm sounding like a broken record here, but it is preposterous to me that this of all general subjects of conversation is one we're having to even have this discussion about.
posted by cortex (staff) at 5:26 PM on July 20, 2010


Maybe a more active presence would help?

At some level it's really hard to step in when people are just being weird and catty and snarky to one another without the mod presence being more of a problem than the original problem. In MeFi we're really light with the comment deletion in most cases and just being an ongoing jerk isn't usually enough to get us to drop in although we did drop in at least once and say just that. Usually if we've had to step in more than once or twice, we'll start timing people out and/or sending emails which is a little less visible but usually more effective than coming to MeTa and say "you are being a terrible jerk!" And, since we don't as mods start MeTa threads, we sort of leave it up to other people to decide when it's become enough of a problem. Which is, in fact, what happened here. We're not really keen on a strategy on our part that doesn't also include a great deal of "knocking that shit off" from the people who are actually involved in the stuff.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 5:29 PM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]


I'm tempted to start a MetaTalk thread asking if people would consider ceasing the cat-picture recipe-posting thing.

Just trying to keep things light without jumping right to saying "it's just a phone, everybody ought to calm down". I wrote a rather innocuous post on the blue about the iPhone 4 antenna frenzy that turned into a MSFT/AAPL shitstorm in the first ten comments, so it wouldn't hurt to investigate whether cats even care about who dominates the smartphone market.
posted by cgomez at 5:34 PM on July 20, 2010


Hipster teenage pregnant cats use a Cheezburger phone.
posted by qvantamon at 5:48 PM on July 20, 2010


There is a more active presence. When you see one of the mods with a

[attention puny human, continue your insignificant display and you will experience the wrath of a thousand gerbils with your underwear covered in their opposite sex'd phermones. also, cortex often uses 'cut the shit', or 'knock it off', I find]
posted by cavalier at 6:19 PM on July 20, 2010


I'm tempted to start a MetaTalk thread asking if people would consider ceasing the cat-picture recipe-posting thing, but I've been here long enough to know exactly what would happen if I did.

I have also recently been feeling that the hi-jinks have been derailing useful MeTa discussions in progress, despite sometimes being a perpetrator of said hi-jinks. Ironically, discussion of how this is derailing threads is itself a derail in this thread, isn't it?
posted by FishBike at 6:44 PM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]


Again, and I'm sounding like a broken record here, but it is preposterous to me that this of all general subjects of conversation is one we're having to even have this discussion about.

Eh, it's just comic book inkers arguing over whether to use a brush or a pen or musicians arguing over types of guitars or guitar strings. Which doesn't make it right, but it's probably in that neighborhood of crazy.

real inkers use a brush.
posted by new brand day at 6:45 PM on July 20, 2010


inkers are tracers
posted by Mikey-San at 6:48 PM on July 20, 2010


PHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWNED!
posted by nola at 6:52 PM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]


Let's have a poor-off, but with phones. This is the only way to counteract fighting over what is the fanciest and best phone. I'm sure some of you crochety luddites out there can kick some ass in this.
posted by elpea at 7:10 PM on July 20, 2010


Obviously I mean crochety luddite in the best way possible. I love crochety luddites.
posted by elpea at 7:10 PM on July 20, 2010


I have a Nokia 2630. It has virtually no memory but it can load Facebook and an IRC client (jmIrc).
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 7:30 PM on July 20, 2010


I have a plank of wood and I scribble notes on it with a chipped rock. I then float the plank down the stream until it reaches someone. I hate it when I have to call tech support on this thing.
posted by Mikey-San at 7:33 PM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]


I'm sure some of you crochety luddites out there can kick some ass in this.

I've got a tin can and a bit of string and I LIKE it!
posted by nola at 8:02 PM on July 20, 2010


I'm sure some of you crochety luddites out there can kick some ass in this.

I've got a tin can and a bit of string and I LIKE it!


The string on my TINCAN350 broke. On the plus side - it's a lot more mobile now.
posted by Sparx at 9:21 PM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]


> The string on my TINCAN350 broke.

You went out and got a 350? What a gadget ho! The 100 works just fine. Why do you need some evil tech overlord company to punch your string hole for you?
posted by Burhanistan at 9:24 PM on July 20, 2010


Comptroller Driving While Mexican
posted by middleclasstool at 9:38 PM on July 20, 2010 [3 favorites]


I'm sure some of you crochety luddites out there can kick some ass in this.

I'll bite. I haven't had a land line since about 2002. I always buy the cheapest cell I can find (no games, no movies etc) and, though I do generally commit to a plan, it's usually the absolute monthly minimum (20 odd bucks + tax).

Of course, I do skype a lot.
posted by philip-random at 9:53 PM on July 20, 2010


real inkers use a brush

Jim Woodring uses a pen. And eventually, Jim Woodring will use a BIG FUCKING PEN.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:09 PM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]


Supreme Commisar Twitching While Tased.
posted by Artw at 10:13 PM on July 20, 2010


I can get down with that. I have a Motorola RAZR, a.k.a. "The "It" Phone of 2004." I bought mine in 2005, reconditioned, for $35.

Above all, I like the feel when it snaps shut. Sometimes I like to snap it shut with a loud CLAP, particularly when I am annoyed. But usually I ease it gently closed, because I wuv my phone, and I will be very sorry when one day it goes to Cellphone Heaven.
posted by ErikaB at 10:33 PM on July 20, 2010


I can't top the pen and pencil, but I can certainly beat a Razr as far as Oldest Active Cell Phone is concerned. Have any of you ever heard of the Sprint Pioneer Plan? It goes like this:

"As far as I remember, the Pioneer Plan was really a San Diego only thing (the original phones were made here by Sony & Qualcomm), for when they started up service here in, like, 1997.

Basically, it as a no-monthly-fee plan with no included airtime, and was $0.35 / minute. The first incoming minute of each call was free, the warranty was described as "lifetime", we were supposed to get a free handset upgrade every 5000 minutes of airtime (might've only been after the first 5000 minutes - I don't recall), and they were supposed to keep this plan in effect for as long as we kept the account (we could cancel it, Sprint could not).

The plan was only offered for the first 2-3 months Sprint offered service in San Diego, and by now, Sprint undoubtedly regrets even offering it for that long."

Imagine a cell phone from 1996. Or, really, imagine a cordless phone from oh, 2002 or so. A thick, bulky brick of a phone, right? Now imagine THAT as your primary cell phone--and yes, the phone is still basically free to use due to the way the initial program was set up. Sprint REALLY must curse the day they ever invented that plan...
posted by librarylis at 10:49 PM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]


Although I'm sure I've posted on some of these threads, I know I've typed more than a few posts and then thought about this cartoon, deleted my post, and gone and done something else. I don't usually read xkcd, but damn if the ridiculousness of it all hasn't saved me hours of wasted time on various internet forums lately.
posted by markr at 1:36 AM on July 21, 2010


900 phones enter the octagon, only one phone... wait... it's a Faraday cage TRAP!!!
posted by BrotherCaine at 4:09 AM on July 21, 2010


I'm sure some of you crochety luddites out there can kick some ass in this.

I've got a tin can and a bit of string and I LIKE it!


I used to cup my hands and shout in the general direction of my intended audience.

These days I wiggle a bit in the dirt and hum loudly.
posted by WalterMitty at 6:49 AM on July 21, 2010


I use semaphores. But I don't actually know semaphores, so I just randomly wave flags until someone brings me pie.
posted by dirigibleman at 7:01 AM on July 21, 2010


I hate semaphores. I go to dinner with my philosopher buddies and they think they an just put out 5 chopsticks for 5 people to eat with and we all grab the left one and then *bang* we're stuck and no one can eat.
posted by GuyZero at 7:03 AM on July 21, 2010 [4 favorites]


I've got a tin can and a bit of string and I LIKE it!
posted by .kobayashi. at 7:10 AM on July 21, 2010


Here is a Donald Barthelme story on the subject of communication that you might enjoy. It is a self-link.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:45 AM on July 21, 2010 [1 favorite]


That Donald Barthelme story is pretty close to what it's like to be me. I don't mean the specifics, and I don't mean holding correspondence with an orbital president (though I would). Rather, from one thought comes another and another and sometimes I circle around and come back to the original, but more often than not I lose the plot (figuratively and literally).

Sometimes I invite people into my world, and point out how I see things, but more often I have to navigate the reality of the majority. It's exhausting to focus long enough to filter what others are saying to where it coalesces into something I can comprehend. It was sometime during college before I realized that not everyone's brain works like mine.

I give credit to my mother.
posted by cjorgensen at 9:08 AM on July 21, 2010


My phone was hot shit in 2005.
posted by Mister_A at 9:09 AM on July 21, 2010


Mother Superior Contributing to the Delinquency of a Minor.
posted by misha at 10:01 AM on July 21, 2010


Seaman Moving Violation.
posted by haveanicesummer at 11:22 AM on July 21, 2010 [2 favorites]


The Right Honorable Possession of a Stolen Shovel.
posted by norm at 11:41 AM on July 21, 2010 [1 favorite]


Archduke Jaywalking
posted by box at 2:31 PM on July 21, 2010 [1 favorite]


I know what you mean, cjorgensen; every little thing the reflex does leaves you answered with a question mark.
posted by fleacircus at 3:41 PM on July 21, 2010


Somewhere, some day, karma will get you for that.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 3:58 PM on July 21, 2010


The Honorable Reverend Fraud
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:51 PM on July 21, 2010


His Holiness Hunting Without a License
posted by Burhanistan at 8:56 PM on July 21, 2010


Debate Co-Captain Public Intoxication
posted by Think_Long at 7:17 AM on July 22, 2010


You know Defcon Defecation is stuck on #2,
So there's no question I had to dump this load on you,
But if you could squeeze out everything you ever wanted,
Would you crap it out? Or just sit?

Yo,
His brow is sweaty, knees bent, the pressure's heavy,
Not gonna vomit, rather: dropping something loaf of bread-y,
His shirt's up--that's surplus, just saying he's ready,
To drop bombs, but he keeps on fretting,
Cause there's no brown, big frown, he groans so loud,
Making faces, but the poop, it won't come out,
He's farting now, but can't void his bowels,
Stands up, and zips up, gets out, plough!

Snap back to the staff meeting.
Oats! He didn't have any.
Granola! If only he'd
Choked it down the feces'd
Flow and he could walk easy, but
No, he didn't have it, he
Knows he's gotta clench, and he
Hopes it'll stay in---
He'll poop, he knows that,
He's bloated, he's so impacted
When the meeting's over, for a fact he'll go
Back on the bowl again yo
The lights go down for a slideshow
He better go crap this moment and hope he can pass it...
You gonna poop yourself in full view in a moment,
You know it, you better find a place to go (go!)
You only got one chance, do not mess your pants, oh no,
This plop-ortunity comes once in a lifetime yo.
posted by fleacircus at 8:13 AM on July 24, 2010


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