Containing the "10 Years After" Posts September 6, 2011 5:48 PM   Subscribe

MeFi was a big part of my experience of the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. I want to skip the concerned, oh-so-caring, oh-so-sincere newscasters, who are pumping fatuous bilge on overtime. This is a good link. Can we please keep the Sept. 11 "10 years after" posts corralled? Many people need them to exist, but MSM is on hyper-saturation with it, and I don't want more of that.

x-posted from the thread.
posted by theora55 to MetaFilter-Related at 5:48 PM (203 comments total) 9 users marked this as a favorite

Is there a Greasemonkey script to filter out MetaTalk posts asking for a 9/11 Greasemonkey script?
posted by KokuRyu at 5:55 PM on September 6, 2011 [8 favorites]


Curious, why not just scroll past them and let the mods sort it out?
posted by deern the headlice at 5:56 PM on September 6, 2011 [4 favorites]


I agree. Thank you, Theora55.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 6:05 PM on September 6, 2011 [1 favorite]




How do I get all this 9/11 junk out of my MetaTalk?
posted by carsonb at 6:10 PM on September 6, 2011


There is already an open meta on this.
posted by cashman at 6:15 PM on September 6, 2011


And now that I've thought about it for a moment: This is a terrible idea.

FIAMO. Same on Sunday as every other day.
posted by Trurl at 6:17 PM on September 6, 2011 [1 favorite]


So we're going to prevent posts on Metafilter because of the tendencies of the US media?

FIAMO.
posted by pompomtom at 6:19 PM on September 6, 2011 [2 favorites]


But if we do that, it will mean that the terrorists have won.
posted by snofoam at 6:23 PM on September 6, 2011 [1 favorite]


Also, the only way to keep the terrorists from winning is to make posts about 9/11 every day.
posted by snofoam at 6:25 PM on September 6, 2011 [1 favorite]


Is Dune week over already?
posted by cjorgensen at 6:27 PM on September 6, 2011 [9 favorites]


There were more than 200 9/11-related posts on the blue by September 14th, 2001. As long as each deals with a discrete, unique, post-worthy aspect, I don't see why we can't have more than a single post on the ten-year anniversary.
posted by Rhaomi at 6:31 PM on September 6, 2011 [6 favorites]


You've been misinformed. The Terrorists (always capitalize) want to see as much attention to this as the Mainstream/Lamestream/Meanstream/Foxprop Media as well as the New Media including MeFi can give them. It proves that they have succeeded in terrorizing us. Mission Accomplished.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:31 PM on September 6, 2011


Okay, fine. Let's forget about 9/11. I propose that we dedicate all our efforts towards properly commemorating the events of 10/11.
posted by snofoam at 6:34 PM on September 6, 2011


Thread below is a different pony request, but I get that I might be pot accusing kettle. Forget that my country was attacked, that thousands of people died, the course of our history was altered, that 2 wars were launched, 1 of them based on complete fabrication? Nope, just hoping to keep it reasonable. The front page of MeFi was amazing on 9/11/2001 and the days afterward, but there's not a lot more news. MSM is absolutely maudlin.
posted by theora55 at 6:45 PM on September 6, 2011


A cliched, navel gazing post about 9/11 would be boring.

A post about 9/11 from a non-American viewpoint would be interesting.

Otherwise a post about Apollo 9 is going to happen.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:45 PM on September 6, 2011


In the other MeTa on this topic by Diablevert, jessamyn explains to use the MyMeFi feature to block stuuf out, and lesli212 a few comments above gives a filtering solution for Chrome that works on various websites you might be visiting this week, like Twitter, Gawker, CNN, HuffPo, etc., etc..

So that might help you.
posted by jbenben at 6:45 PM on September 6, 2011


Shame on you all. Grow up, already. Jesus H. Christ on a stick. It's not all that hard to just give a moment to remember something that happened 10 years ago, is it? Laugh some more, why don't you?

Thoroughly disgusted. Walking away now.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 6:49 PM on September 6, 2011 [2 favorites]


No, shame on YOU!
posted by carsonb at 6:51 PM on September 6, 2011 [6 favorites]


when you step through to, the old dirty bastard.
posted by cashman at 6:52 PM on September 6, 2011 [9 favorites]


I'd like it if we could have just a single mourning thread, for melodramatic venting of the emotional overreactions that people seem already to have on constant DEFCON alert; and an engineering thread, as a honeypot for monomaniacal truthers at $5 a head. And yes, I'm in agreement: considering the media's likely level of saturation, we're going to need a commitment to some "keep it in the open thread" ground rules or MeFi will be near-useless for anything else for a solid week.
posted by RogerB at 6:58 PM on September 6, 2011 [1 favorite]




we're going to need a commitment to some "keep it in the open thread" ground rules

We need the mods to keep doing the same job they do every day. Period.

Their work load may spike. But this is the business they have chosen. And they're made of stern stuff.

Can we go back to bitching about favorites now?
posted by Trurl at 7:08 PM on September 6, 2011 [4 favorites]


What if we had a bonfire and everyone brought gasoline?!
posted by Horselover Phattie at 7:12 PM on September 6, 2011 [1 favorite]


Due to a series of bizarre twists of fate (and hypersomnia via atypical depression) I slept through at least the first two hours of nearly every major tragedy of our time (well, after about 1994, anyhow.)

It's probably not healthy, but I intend to sleep through the rash of totally anticipatable 9/11 MetaFilter posts, too.

I know I'm just a puppet who's only around to shield my master from being publicly associated with the sordid details of our medical history, but I'd like to throw my stinky self in the FIAMO pile all the same. I don't quite see how a MetaTalk post will help. Heck, the only reason this reply was written is because when, really, is the appropriate time for a puppet to confess the sin of having slept through a shuttle disaster, a dozen terrorist events, most of the 2000 election recount drama, and the death of Princess Diana?
posted by Fee Phi Faux Phumb I Smell t'Socks o' a Puppetman! at 7:15 PM on September 6, 2011


but MSM is on hyper-saturation with it
MSM is absolutely maudlin.


What's MSM?
posted by 6550 at 7:21 PM on September 6, 2011


Can we please keep the Sept. 11 "10 years after" posts corralled?

This is a darned fine sentiment which I support one hundred percent.

I am particularly concerned with the possibility that we become so entwined with the drama inherent in our 911 remembrances that we completely forget to spray snark and invective over the 20th anniversary celebration's of Nirvana's Nevermind (9-24-91)
posted by philip-random at 7:24 PM on September 6, 2011


mainstream media
posted by elizardbits at 7:25 PM on September 6, 2011


Posts like this exacerbate the problem.
posted by Ardiril at 7:26 PM on September 6, 2011 [2 favorites]


What's the difference between a cow and 9/11?
You stop milking a cow after ten years.
posted by exogenous at 7:40 PM on September 6, 2011 [21 favorites]


One is a bovine ungulate with horns and the other is a cow.

No, wait.
posted by George_Spiggott at 7:42 PM on September 6, 2011 [2 favorites]


Another vote for FIAMO. There will be open posts people can post in, if it's not what you are interested in, then go read another post or take a nice walk outside.
posted by arcticseal at 7:43 PM on September 6, 2011


What's MSM?

Having worked on the periphery of HIV/AIDS policy and education for years now, MSM means "men who have sex with men", and I always have to remember the "mainstream media" definition and it makes me giggle inappropriately.
posted by rtha at 8:00 PM on September 6, 2011 [7 favorites]


We need the mods to keep doing the same job they do every day. Period.

Part of how they do that job is that the community discusses, in MeTa, how much multiple-posting latitude any given current big news story gets. This is that discussion. Just saying "FIAMO" is not a contribution to a discussion of how we want the mods to respond to those flags: if the general consensus of the discussion here ended up being something like "let's have lots of different threads open because people want to remember and discuss 9/11 in different ways," then that would imply a different mod response to flagging than a general sentiment of "please let's try to keep it confined to just one or a few open threads."
posted by RogerB at 8:03 PM on September 6, 2011


Why even flag it? Just move on. There is no rule saying that you have to read every thread.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 8:03 PM on September 6, 2011 [2 favorites]


Shame on you all. Grow up, already. Jesus H. Christ on a stick. It's not all that hard to just give a moment to remember something that happened 10 years ago, is it? Laugh some more, why don't you?

This reminds me of my parents lecturing my ex about appropriate remembrances, when on 9/11 he was blocks away and lost family friends. They were safely in the midwest, of course, but THE OUTRAGE, it belongs to everyone forever!!!
posted by the young rope-rider at 8:07 PM on September 6, 2011 [15 favorites]


Part of how they do that job is that the community discusses, in MeTa, how much multiple-posting latitude any given current big news story gets.

Is it?

That's not a rhetorical question. I know they do lots of cogitating on these matters, but I didn't think they took majority opinion into account.

In any event, given how fighty everyone (including myself) has gotten already, I suspect they'll have plenty of their own motivation for keeping the number of threads down.
posted by Trurl at 8:17 PM on September 6, 2011 [1 favorite]


If Metafilter is just a bunch of schmaltzy 9/11 posts next week then the terrorists win.
posted by 2bucksplus at 8:24 PM on September 6, 2011 [1 favorite]


I know they do lots of cogitating on these matters, but I didn't think they took majority opinion into account.

I'm not trying to suggest that we just take a vote or that MeTa tells the mods what to do without them using their own judgment. But yeah, seems to me like this is where it should be discussed, exactly as usually happens. "Is this post on X a double or is it different enough to be a new separate thread?" and/or "Do we really need this many separate threads on X?" is one of the most common recurrent discussions in MeTa, because it needs to be talked about in each new set of circumstances. My point is just that FIAMO isn't really an answer to those questions.
posted by RogerB at 8:26 PM on September 6, 2011


What does Miami Sound Machine have to do with anything?
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 8:29 PM on September 6, 2011 [3 favorites]


Rhythm will eventually get you.
posted by Horselover Phattie at 8:33 PM on September 6, 2011 [9 favorites]


Horselover Phattie, you made me giggle like a little girl.

Thank you.

(and you're pretty awesome too, one more dead town's last parade)
posted by anitanita at 8:40 PM on September 6, 2011


my memory of 911 is profound. Two days before I dropped mushrooms with a crowd of people I didn't know that well and FUCK was it boring -- a bunch of yuppies in the midst of convoluted soap operas with each other and their fragile yet inflated egos, and much talk of " ... achieving escape velocity."

"Damn," I said to myself the next day, "If vile Islamic terrorists don't attack the west in the next few days because THEY HATE OUR FREEDOM, then f*** it, I'm giving up on my dreams and going to law school."

Little did I realize ...
posted by philip-random at 8:55 PM on September 6, 2011 [2 favorites]


I didn't think they took majority opinion into account.


We're pretty clear that it's tough to ascertain majority opinion, and that a MeTa majority is not a MeFi majority, but we definitely listen to what people say here. There are certain things where we'll just say "Yeah that's not going to happen" [killfiles, for example] and stuff we'll say "Yes, we'll do that" [the MyMeFi stuff] and a lot more than is just in the big grey area where we'll listen to what people say, check the flag queue and use our judgment.

My personal preference is that there not be a weeklong 9/11 linkfest with a ton of little posts that turn somehow into trollbait and that we have a few threads for people who want to talk about things and for other people to ignore if that's their thing. That said, this may not happen and we're mostly around to make sure that things don't get out of hand, not to steer them while they're getting started.

I just watched that dorky ESPN video on the front page, about the kid who saved some people and I thought it was pretty good and there was some discussion that was interesting and also pretty topical to the post. More of that would be good, no matter what the content.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:31 PM on September 6, 2011 [1 favorite]


From the masses to the mod team, from the mod team to the masses!
posted by Abiezer at 9:36 PM on September 6, 2011


Keep rubbing in that killfile thing.
posted by cjorgensen at 10:14 PM on September 6, 2011 [1 favorite]


A thousand times yes, theora55. However, the mods wouldn't corral the Bin Laden killing stupidity, so I'm not holding out any hope.

Lots of topics do get a strict cordon, but somehow things that hit the American zeitgeist in just that way seem to be immune.
posted by Chuckles at 10:19 PM on September 6, 2011


I was going to add "9/11" and "9-11" to my filter, but then I realized I'd miss out on all the great posts about 0.818181... and -2.
posted by Philosopher Dirtbike at 10:33 PM on September 6, 2011 [11 favorites]


In any event, given how fighty everyone (including myself) has gotten already, I suspect they'll have plenty of their own motivation for keeping the number of threads down.

I'd suggest another response to this would be for more people to make a conscious effort to be less "fighty". To elect not to rise to bait. To just walk away from discussions that are bound to drag us into the same bad energy-laden combative counter-monologues about the mess of U.S. military and domestic policy of the last ten years. It won't help anything. It will just make more ugly noise. Anyway that's what I'm going to do.
posted by nanojath at 10:36 PM on September 6, 2011 [2 favorites]


Shame on you all. Grow up, already. Jesus H. Christ on a stick. It's not all that hard to just give a moment to remember something that happened 10 years ago, is it? Laugh some more, why don't you?

But the point of Metafilter is not to "give a moment to remember" anything. It's a place to post interesting things we found online.

(I feel the same about 9/11 posts as I do about any other kind of posts - they should be good. If they're not, let's get rid of them).
posted by Infinite Jest at 12:22 AM on September 7, 2011 [4 favorites]


Double?
posted by infini at 1:02 AM on September 7, 2011



A post about 9/11 from a non-American viewpoint would be interesting.


You mean about the way that day changed the global travel experience of crores of South Asians forever?
posted by infini at 1:51 AM on September 7, 2011 [2 favorites]


The day before, our Lley-Lley won the US Open.

9/10 NEVAR FORGET
posted by uncanny hengeman at 2:54 AM on September 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


It's not all that hard to just give a moment to remember something that happened 10 years ago, is it?

I don't think you understand how memory and tragedy work.

Please consider the possibility that you are not the injured party here, and thus not a legitimate identifier of who ought to be ashamed for their reactions.
posted by anotherpanacea at 4:00 AM on September 7, 2011 [3 favorites]


Pearl Harbor, the quiet anniversary.
posted by PapaLobo at 4:46 AM on September 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


Shame on you all. Grow up, already. Jesus H. Christ on a stick. It's not all that hard to just give a moment to remember something that happened 10 years ago, is it? Laugh some more, why don't you?

what
posted by OmieWise at 5:37 AM on September 7, 2011


the 20th anniversary celebration's of Nirvana's Nevermind (9-24-91)

HOLY JESUS
posted by shakespeherian at 5:39 AM on September 7, 2011 [6 favorites]


Well its meta filter, yes? I use this site as a filter and I'm sure it will work as well for this anniversary as it does for everything else.

Seriously, Reddit doesn't work nearly so well, it is full of double posts.
posted by By The Grace of God at 5:52 AM on September 7, 2011




"Dear Metafilter,

I don't like something. Conform to my desires.

Love,
the OP"

Am I reading that right?
posted by inturnaround at 6:14 AM on September 7, 2011 [5 favorites]


Yet another vote for FIAMO. If you feel the need to tell other people how to feel or talk about 9/11, do us all a favor and just go away. Two annoying MeTa threads was more than enough for me on that topic.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 6:18 AM on September 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


Am I reading that right?

Well sure but this kind of request is the reason that we don't have like a thousand 'I'd hit it!' comments in every thread. So I think it's useful.
posted by shakespeherian at 6:34 AM on September 7, 2011


Shame on you all. Grow up, already. Jesus H. Christ on a stick. It's not all that hard to just give a moment to remember something that happened 10 years ago, is it?

Marie:

I heard the impact of both planes as they hit the towers ten years ago.

Trying to FORGET some of the things I saw, heard, smelled, and experienced during that week is THE ONLY THING THAT HAS KEPT ME SANE.

In conclusion, FUCK your admonition to "Grow up", and shame on YOU.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:48 AM on September 7, 2011 [4 favorites]


Infinite Jest: " (I feel the same about 9/11 posts as I do about any other kind of posts - they should be good. If they're not, let's get rid of them)."

Agreed.
posted by zarq at 6:48 AM on September 7, 2011


I am sympathetic and also hope that it doesn't go over the top. Thanks for the word to the wise, theora55.

One thing I might also recommend is that it on the individual level, it might be more sanity-producing to just avoid the MSM right now than to structure the MeFi response. That's where the bulk of the content is coming from. Since I don't have TV, I'm only dimly aware that some people somewhere are talking about the 9/11 10th anniversary a lot, but very little of it has actually penetrated my attention sphere. The radio isn't doing all that much about it, except some short pieces like this morning's comedy after 9/11 thing, though I'm sure that will increase toward the weekend, and of course online you can skip what you don't want to read. So for those already feeling saturated, kind of like with the Irene thing, maybe just take a broadcast TV break for a while. I'm not seeing all that much bleed over to other media.

For someone who was on maybe the second concentric circle of 9/11 personal impact, in that I didn't lose anyone I knew personally but was affected in several other ways through family and hometown, I'm surprised by my own lack of interest in the coverage. For some reason I have an odd, defeated and disdainful attitude to the 'let's remember' stuff. I mean, I don't have a hard time remembering, I just don't particularly want to. There's a "what the F is there to talk about anyway" reaction that's sort of surprising me: "no one's coming back to life and there's no unravelling the last 10 years, so whatever." There was a really good Fresh Air show this week about the way our domestic and foreign policy was affected in the aftermath, and that had some actual new perspective to offer, but I have a feeling most of the MSM coverage is going to be half rehash, 25% forced sentiment with grayed-out flag images and Taps being played and somber faces, and 25% earnest "Whither America?" discussion - none of which, I think, will do much to move us along.
posted by Miko at 6:49 AM on September 7, 2011 [7 favorites]


God I wish the 9/11 response hadn't been drenched in cynical patriotism and appropriated by political factions so that I could have a goddam honest response to the thing.
posted by shakespeherian at 6:55 AM on September 7, 2011 [18 favorites]


A thousand times yes, theora55. However, the mods wouldn't corral the Bin Laden killing stupidity, so I'm not holding out any hope.

Lots of topics do get a strict cordon, but somehow things that hit the American zeitgeist in just that way seem to be immune.


We deleted at least a few OBL-related posts last May and told people not to keep branching off of existing conversations unnecessarily. As it is, I think there was more posts than necessary, but it was also a sudden shocking developing story, and, yes, people really seemed into posting about all kinds of different angles.

"Strict cordon" is overselling actual policy; we've often nixed an extra thread or three and told folks to keep an ongoing conversation in the same thread, and we'll continue to do that, but it's no guarantee that with something unusual and especially something unexpected and developing there'll be only one thread ever about it.

I'd love to see people not be lazy about multi-posting about the 9/11 anniversary. I suspect we're more in agreement than anything on that. But if you're going to position it as either strictly cordon it to one thread or some failure on our part to do our job, I don't know how to meet you halfway on this one, because that's not the definition of how we do our job in the general case of "complicated situation people want to post about", much as we do try to keep stuff from going too far overboard in terms of multiplication of posts.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:00 AM on September 7, 2011


The ATM screen at my fucking bank is reminding me to remember the events of September 11th. I dread next Sunday like the inevitable approach of a lumbering, gas-guzzling pile of metal.*
posted by octobersurprise at 7:02 AM on September 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


theora55: "Can we please keep the Sept. 11 "10 years after" posts corralled?"

Marie Mon Dieu: "Shame on you all. Grow up, already. Jesus H. Christ on a stick. It's not all that hard to just give a moment to remember something that happened 10 years ago, is it? Laugh some more, why don't you?"

*raises hand*

Lived through 9/11 as a native New Yorker. Lost someone I knew when the towers fell. Friends and neighbors lost their friends and family. I came home that day to find my landlord, neighbor and friend, a retired police detective and perhaps the toughest man I've ever met, weeping openly on his stoop talking about the friends he'd lost. People he'd worked with for decades who died trying to save others.

Digging up old memories is not always pleasant or something to be desired. Marie, perhaps this wasn't your intent, but it feels like you're trying to shame those of us for whom this day may be personally painful and have difficulty with the media blitz that accompanies it. Being lectured about whether we are being good people for wanting to remember / talk about it or not kinda sucks.

theora55, I've made a couple of posts about 9/11 in the last month. I may make another at some point if I see something I think is outstanding and would like to share it with the group. Personally, I find posting about it and talking about it here somewhat therapeutic. And if the community doesn't like something I post, the mods will delete it. No harm, no foul. If you would prefer not to see it, please feel free to use the tools the mods have provided so you can filter it out. Like Miko, I'm also avoiding broadcast media this week. Printed words are easier to digest, somehow.
posted by zarq at 7:08 AM on September 7, 2011 [7 favorites]


shakespeherian: "God I wish the 9/11 response hadn't been drenched in cynical patriotism and appropriated by political factions so that I could have a goddam honest response to the thing."

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the fucking 9/11 Merlot.
posted by zarq at 7:13 AM on September 7, 2011 [6 favorites]


Fucking merlot.
posted by octobersurprise at 7:19 AM on September 7, 2011


You know, I was already getting really sad about this. (I'm another native NYer who was in the Village on the day in question.) And then you guys started with the fucking merlot.
posted by miss-lapin at 7:22 AM on September 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


"Strict Cordon" is name of my upcoming travel show where I explore the cuisine of international BDSM clubs.
posted by griphus at 7:25 AM on September 7, 2011 [2 favorites]


One thing I might also recommend is that it on the individual level, it might be more sanity-producing to just avoid the MSM right now than to structure the MeFi response.

yeah, I don't watch a lot of TV other than Hulu or Netflix, so was unaware of 9/11 remembrance other than what I hear or see snatches of in between other stuff. You don't have to pay attention to all that.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:27 AM on September 7, 2011


I plan on spending the next few days drunk in a media proof bunker that completely isolates me from any kind of current reporting on the events of 10 years ago.

It's not that I don't care, it's just that I'm tired of an admittedly shocking and horrific event, still holding this much influence on our national direction nearly a decade later. For those who were personally affected, I completely understand marking the anniversary, but for the vast majority of the rest of the nation, it's time to let go.

Considering that we played right into what the terrorists wanted; several wars, the rise of nationalism, the abridgment of civil liberties at home, torture, the bankrupting of our economy... maybe it's time we considered the very real possibility that we lost, they won, and we should finally move on.

9/12 TIME TO ACCEPT

Or something.
posted by quin at 7:33 AM on September 7, 2011 [5 favorites]


The ATM screen at my fucking bank is reminding me to remember the events of September 11th.

Jeez.
posted by cashman at 7:34 AM on September 7, 2011


Miko: " I'm not seeing all that much bleed over to other media. "

It's different here. All the papers, tv and radio stations and newspapers are covering it in a big way. It's becoming inescapable again. It was that way in the months immediately following 9/11 in New York. Every television and radio station ran stories about it. Newspapers, magazines, websites. The funerals went on for months, as families gave up hope that their loved ones would return home, or remains were discovered. So many who died were first responders: NYPD, FDNY, etc. Scenes from their funerals were broadcast on the news. Because they had died trying to save others, and that's how we honor heroes.

But it was utterly inescapable. Avoid the media, sure. But there were makeshift memorials everywhere. In train stations and airports. "Have you seen my husband/wife/sister/brother/child/lover/friend flyers plastered in hundreds of locations. Tended by the grieving. Not to mention the security checkpoints. And of course, our skyline didn't look right anymore. There were people treated for PTSD, not just from the event itself, but the endless media coverage of the aftermath.

Many New Yorkers avoided Ground Zero entirely. I tried. I didn't see the globe for years, and then only because a friend visiting from out of town wanted to go.

Eventually, it became a cocktail party topic. "Where were you when it happened? Did you lose anyone?" But that happened far faster for the rest of the country, for whom it had disappeared from the airwaves within a month or two, than in NYC.

And that was part of the problem: for us, it didn't end quickly. Many of you saw it on television. You could shut it off and go about your daily lives. But for those of us who lived here it was ongoing unending chaos and entirely unavoidable. Oh, and Tom fucking Ridge and George W. fucking Bush made sure to manufacture a fake terrorism scare every single time they needed a bump in the polls or to win an election. Our lives were political footballs.

Anyway.

Living here, it's gonna be hard to avoid for a little while. It's not all bad. We're used to it. But New Yorkers will have to do a lot more than just shut off the tv to avoid the stories.
posted by zarq at 7:35 AM on September 7, 2011 [14 favorites]


zarq I can offer you a warm bed in Chicago in a (pushed glasses up on nose) teevee-free apartment.
posted by shakespeherian at 7:49 AM on September 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


It's different here. All the papers, tv and radio stations and newspapers are covering it in a big way. It's becoming inescapable again. It was that way in the months immediately following 9/11 in New York.

This is probably quite true; though my family is still there, I'm not in the mediashed of NYC right now so I'm not getting it via my print media or radio so much.
posted by Miko at 8:00 AM on September 7, 2011 [2 favorites]


I dunno, it's sucky that 9/11 blather is on full saturation there, but walking around with this kind of chip on one's shoulder is making it far far worse than strictly necessary.
posted by Horselover Phattie at 8:02 AM on September 7, 2011 [2 favorites]




shakespeherian: "zarq I can offer you a warm bed in Chicago in a (pushed glasses up on nose) teevee-free apartment."

Heh. Thanks. :)

I'm in an ovarian cancer walk on Saturday and have to work on Sunday. So a trip outta town isn't in the cards this year.
posted by zarq at 8:10 AM on September 7, 2011


Horselover, if you'll look at the original thread, I offered Marie quite the gracious apology after she snarked that my wish for the events to fade a bit made her feel bad. I then even explained what I meant. However, she continued to snark.

If I have "a chip on my shoulder," consider who or what may have put it there, and who else may have one.

In my case, I think I can be forgiven getting testy about being accused of not properly remembering a personal incident, yes?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:10 AM on September 7, 2011 [5 favorites]


Many New Yorkers avoided Ground Zero entirely. I tried.

I have yet to deliberately visit it and have no desire to ever do so. I guess that means we need to grow up or something, idk.
posted by elizardbits at 8:12 AM on September 7, 2011 [4 favorites]


> I think I can be forgiven getting testy about being accused of not properly remembering a personal incident, yes?

Well, we all need forgiveness for our various foibles. But, I think this place works a lot better when people don't make everything so personal.
posted by Horselover Phattie at 8:14 AM on September 7, 2011 [3 favorites]


I think this place works a lot better when people don't make everything so personal.

Me too.

Let's start with the rest of the country not telling people in New York "you're remembering wrong."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:16 AM on September 7, 2011 [10 favorites]


This is Metatalk. It's not going to change anything.
posted by Horselover Phattie at 8:17 AM on September 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


EmpressCallipygos: " Let's start with the rest of the country not telling people in New York "you're remembering wrong.""

Or "shame on you" for having conflicted feelings about the incident.
posted by zarq at 8:18 AM on September 7, 2011 [5 favorites]


Or taking "I'd like to not see 38 gabillion posts on one topic" as a call to "ignore it totally".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:24 AM on September 7, 2011


philip-random: I am particularly concerned with the possibility that we become so entwined with the drama inherent in our 911 remembrances that we completely forget to spray snark and invective over the 20th anniversary celebration's of Nirvana's Nevermind (9-24-91)

You must have missed my premature post. Nevermind: check.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:32 AM on September 7, 2011


miss-lapin: "And then you guys started with the fucking merlot."

Not just a fucking Merlot. A cheap fucking Merlot.
posted by zarq at 8:33 AM on September 7, 2011


Or taking "I'd like to not see 38 gabillion posts on one topic" as a call to "ignore it totally".

I take it as an exercise in futility.
posted by inturnaround at 8:33 AM on September 7, 2011


People, please. This isn't a time for petty fighting and insults. It's a time for charity, togetherness and sharing.

So shame on all of us, every one!

(Christmas music.)
posted by griphus at 8:35 AM on September 7, 2011 [3 favorites]


In my case, I think I can be forgiven getting testy about being accused of not properly remembering a personal incident, yes?

Walk away. Marie should have also walked away before she commented instead of after. This is not about forgiving people, and this is definitely not about competitive suffering.

I am very sorry people have suffered and have strong emotional reactions to things that other people discuss here but change starts with you, not with the other people who pissed you off. There is almost never [I'd say never but maybe I could think of an edge case later] a reason to say either fuck you or shame on you here and I want it to stop.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:39 AM on September 7, 2011 [8 favorites]


(Christmas music.)

ANGER HUGS
posted by shakespeherian at 8:40 AM on September 7, 2011


Digging up old memories is not always pleasant or something to be desired. Marie, perhaps this wasn't your intent, but it feels like you're trying to shame those of us for whom this day may be personally painful and have difficulty with the media blitz that accompanies it.

This. We had the same thing in the UK with the death of Princess Diana, which had a similar kind of national grief moment here (not even the 7/7 bombings saw the hysteria that happened during that week) and people were made to feel like insensitive pricks for not observing the funeral, or not mourning the death of someone they didn't know. I can't imagine what it would have been like for those who had, for instance, lost a parent, or experienced a loved one die on the same week.

Plus, for those of us outside the US, we find it harder to lock into what this means for Americans. For me, the impact of 9/11 was the reverberations for British Muslims and the rise of Islamophobia in Europe- for you (Americans I mean) it has a more personal meaning, especially for those of you with soldiers close to you. So I personally will be leaving those threads for those who want to talk about it rather than getting GRAR, or feeling obliged to observe something that didn't have the same impact for me.

Also, it's mine and liquidindian's four-year anniversary on 9/11, so we will be celebrating it with a cottage pie.
posted by mippy at 8:46 AM on September 7, 2011 [2 favorites]


mippy: " Also, it's mine and liquidindian's four-year anniversary on 9/11, so we will be celebrating it with a cottage pie."

Congrats!

Fourth anniversary is cottage pie? :)
posted by zarq at 8:51 AM on September 7, 2011


ANGER HUGS

I FORGE THE SWORD OF FRIENDSHIP
posted by elizardbits at 8:54 AM on September 7, 2011 [2 favorites]


Every day is cottage pie. No, wait, its alternate days with shepherd's pie.

*looks down at distinctly visible middleaged spread*

*picks up fork*

Happy Anniversary mippy, where do you live?
posted by infini at 8:55 AM on September 7, 2011


That's kind of yucky.
posted by Horselover Phattie at 8:57 AM on September 7, 2011


Pie and Merlot for everyone!
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:01 AM on September 7, 2011 [3 favorites]


I live in London. 4th anniversary in the US is probably pumpkin pie or something.

Mmm, pumpkin pie.
posted by mippy at 9:17 AM on September 7, 2011


In the encycopedia 9/11 I posted that condensation of 9/11 remember posting would be a great idea. Having read this thread I still think that. Overkill does not honor the people killed. It gives Giulani an ego erection and does nothing to diminish terror.
posted by bukvich at 9:19 AM on September 7, 2011


New Pony: I'd like to consider a moratorium on the use of the words "Giuliani" and "erection" in the same sentence. Because, ew.

(kidding)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:26 AM on September 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


I'd like to amend that moratorium with an exception for when the words "homeless" and "missing" are in that or any adjacent sentences.
posted by griphus at 9:31 AM on September 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


I feel kinda bad posting that joke, I was hearing 9/11 jokes in bars around town days or weeks after the event. I don't want to rehash the debate over how some people handle grief with attempts at humor and it is sometimes easy to forget that metafilter isn't my corner bar where I know how everyone will react. Sorry if I upset you MLIS.
posted by Ad hominem at 9:33 AM on September 7, 2011


Why Do You Hate America?
posted by Debaser626 at 10:06 AM on September 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


[Killed a couple comments. Y'all want to tone it down just a tad, please.]
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:10 AM on September 7, 2011


In all seriousness, I wouldn't mind seeing one or two well done FPPs here on 9/11. We humans seem to pay special attention to "anniversaries" divisible by 10, and hey, it was a significant event.

I was talking to my dad about this over the weekend, and he remembers what a huge deal Pear Harbor's anniversary was in his town in the 50s. Stuff just kinda fades away... time healing all wounds and all.... I don't even think FIAMO is so much necessary, as simply skipping over it completely.

Basically, for me, it would be like watching the Daily Show's take on something that's been dragged through the mud on MSM for too long. Just something I've personally come to respect Metafilter for over the years.
posted by Debaser626 at 10:18 AM on September 7, 2011


cortex: [Killed a couple comments... ]

As long as you keep the collateral damage to a minimum.
posted by gman at 10:39 AM on September 7, 2011


Wow, I was so much happier when I thought that was deliberate hyperbole.

Anyway, it's a Sunday, which I usually spend sleeping, doing laundry, and watching shows recorded during the week. That should help.
posted by Karmakaze at 11:01 AM on September 7, 2011


Please please please, people, let's all be sweet and kind to each other and tread lightly over the next week. It's us mefites against the cold cruel exploitative outside world!

September 11 is a sensitive subject. Everybody needs to get through it in the way that makes the most sense for them. When it comes to loss, grief, or trauma, no one remembers, grieves, mourns, feels or thinks the same way about things. We all cope differently. Some will want to ignore it, some will want to talk about it. Eh, whatever gets you through, whatever you need to do.

For all the horror, it was a day that brought so many on this site together for comfort, for information, for just trying to find some sense in things. Don't let it be a divisive thing now - let's not be ugly, let's all be sweet. That's the only antidote I've ever found for loss and sadness anyway - loving the people around me more.
posted by madamjujujive at 1:10 PM on September 7, 2011 [3 favorites]


Well, that and drugs.
posted by madamjujujive at 1:10 PM on September 7, 2011 [14 favorites]


Yeah, I feel like I've seen a lot more "trigger warning" messages on stuff involving rape the last couple of years here. Would be nice if people respected how traumatic this event was to live through, especially for those of us who were close by.
posted by rikschell at 2:48 PM on September 7, 2011


In my college environment, there are FUCKING GIGANTIC SCREENSAVERS of the twin towers with NEVAR FORGET or some bullshit. I am surrounded by it, and would really like to methodically put my fist through each screen.
posted by angrycat at 2:51 PM on September 7, 2011


Marie Mon Dieu: Shame on you all. Grow up, already. Jesus H. Christ on a stick. It's not all that hard to just give a moment to remember something that happened 10 years ago, is it? Laugh some more, why don't you?

Thoroughly disgusted. Walking away now.


How is not wanting to see eleventy bajillion "OMG, 9/11 ten years later!" posts "laughing"?

Here, lemme piss you off. Know what I'm doing to commemorate 9/11? Not a fucking thing. Nothing. At all. No flag out. No candles. No memorial service. Nichts. Nada. Know why? Because I live in OHIO. My city was not bombed and covered in ash. No famous landmarks crumbled to dust. My city did not bear witness to the murders of 3000 people. I don't know anyone who died that day. Not a soul. I have zero connection to what happened, outside of watching in horror as the events unfolded on CNN.

The grief of the people who lived in the cities that were bombed, and the grief of the people who lost friends and family in the attacks, is not my grief. For me to wail and gnash my teeth would be unseemly and insincere. To demand that anyone "remember" at all is even worse. For me to demand that people directly affected grieve in a particular way would be the height of arrogant and self-aggrandizing assholery.

I am sad that so many died. I am angry that it has been used as an excuse to steal away our civil liberties. But I am sadder and angrier still that the tragic events of 9/11 have been co-opted by people who were not there as an excuse to play More Patriotic Than Thou, to complain about how others' failure to publicly grieve or desire to not do so "makes them feel bad".

So, no, I'm not going to "give a moment to remember". I'm going to do a fundraiser for the NKF, have lunch with friends, and come home to play video games with my son. I will not watch the news, read the headlines, or listen to the radio. I'm not going to "remember" - at least, not in any way that you seem to think I should. Rather, I'm going to leave the people who are still living with very real pain to grieve in whatever manner they see fit, and hope that some day, the wounds won't be so fresh, and they can eventually hurt a little less. We could all do them a solid and leave them the hell alone, instead of expecting them to give a damn about our poor bruised wittwe fee-fees.
posted by MissySedai at 3:44 PM on September 7, 2011 [12 favorites]


America, the Woody Allen of the international community. Neuroticism, handwringing, therapeutic analysis and tantrums for the last decade. Get over it. The rest of the planet rides out their disasters with some degree of dignity, please get a grip and learn to do likewise. You are not the most important or significant people on the planet despite Hollywood and your ability to "project power". Far from it. And your ability to preach / lead / champion died long ago. Move on, everyone else is trying to.
posted by R.Stornoway at 4:05 PM on September 7, 2011


From the bottom of a MetaTalk thread to the soul of America. Our nation hears you loud and clear, displays contrition for her selfishness, and begs the world to forgive the excessive false solemnity. Thank you for putting America straight!
posted by Horselover Phattie at 4:16 PM on September 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


R.Stornoway, please do tell us how much we suck and how we should get over ourselves. That's a great way to address folks who were near a massacre of civilians. Not to say the U.S. doesn't suck, it does in many ways. But your timing is a gajillion parsecs off.
posted by angrycat at 4:17 PM on September 7, 2011


Pleasure, but really, 9-11 is not and will not be a historic event for anyone but Americans and the people that felt your wrath. Unfortunately, US-centric as MeFi is I'm prepared to be in the minority on this score. Be assured however, there's a big, wide world out there who really, truly dont care about what happened any more than the rest of humanity's ills and care even less for your behaviour as you deal with it. Just a reminder.
posted by R.Stornoway at 4:24 PM on September 7, 2011


well that's us told.
posted by elizardbits at 4:27 PM on September 7, 2011


I had a friend who liked to use the phrase 'turd in the punchbowl.'
posted by angrycat at 4:30 PM on September 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


It's not so much the American people who need to move on and get over it, we're trying to. It's the fucking media outlets that keep pistol whipping our emotions and sensibilities with it. They WON'T get over it though, because it's BIG FUCKING $$$ for them.

As long as they keep hauling out the old carcass you're going to keep hearing about it. What you're witnessing here, R.Stornoway, is us Americans dealing with THAT. Not the actual event of 9/11. (That's my take anyway.)

So, is there no 9/11 coverage going on in Scotland? If not, you're very lucky indeed and you'll only have to suffer it here on MeFi.
posted by snsranch at 4:34 PM on September 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


After 10 years, no one cares here. South of the border media maybe, but that's the English establishment's fictional "special relationship" hang ups. Scotland? You had our sympathies but no more. We had the good grace to release Megrahi much to US consternation and ire despite our own losses. Such is the nature of a rational and law respecting nation.
posted by R.Stornoway at 4:39 PM on September 7, 2011


Sorry, yes, some of us ARE still dealing with the actual event and that makes me seriously wonder how the media BS is hampering folks natural means of coping, mourning and moving on.
posted by snsranch at 4:40 PM on September 7, 2011


And you know, R.Stornoway, I have to wonder if you've ever experienced anything even remotely horrific as 9/11. Even being hit by a car or crashing on one's bicycle should be enough to create some empathy in a fellow for others pain.
posted by snsranch at 4:49 PM on September 7, 2011 [2 favorites]


9-11 is not and will not be a historic event for anyone but Americans and the people that felt your wrath

Some Bosnian Serb shot an ArchDuke. Who cares? To say it wasn't a historic event affecting much of the world is kind of odd.
posted by theora55 at 4:51 PM on September 7, 2011 [6 favorites]


Just a reminder.

Please do not make this thread the fight-by-proxy fight that we probably wouldn't allow to run unchecked on the rest of the site. Issuing a "friendly" reminder that other people dont give a shit seems to be a weird way to participate in the discussion.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 4:54 PM on September 7, 2011 [2 favorites]


R. Stornoway, here's a Scottish example for you: James I taking the throne of the British Isles. James I was kind of a dick in terms of believing the King was above the law since the King made the law. This was, in my understanding, the birth of common law, which aside from legislation is how we get our laws -- here and there.

So, I am interested enough about the history of your country to know that bit. Why do you think proclaiming loudly your disinterest in the affairs of the country makes you anything other than silly?
posted by angrycat at 4:58 PM on September 7, 2011


On preview: Sorry, will drop this.
posted by angrycat at 4:59 PM on September 7, 2011


Everyone experiences loss, even in tragic disasters. Our family suffered tragedy with the Iolaire with quiet dignity, noone marked the event publically. It's been 10 years, yet millions will be forced to bear your grief.

Jessamyn, it's not about not giving a shit, it's about non-USAsian fatigue with the result of your country's foreign policy.
posted by R.Stornoway at 5:00 PM on September 7, 2011


we get it, dude. you're better than all americans put together. yippie.
posted by elizardbits at 5:02 PM on September 7, 2011 [2 favorites]


Pithy Lizzybee, stereotypically childish but pithy.
posted by R.Stornoway at 5:05 PM on September 7, 2011


it's about non-USAsian fatigue with the result of your country's foreign policy.

Sorry, perhaps I should have quoted you in entirety "Be assured however, there's a big, wide world out there who really, truly dont care about what happened any more than the rest of humanity's ills and care even less for your behaviour as you deal with it. Just a reminder."

MetaTalk, all of MetaFilter actually, is entirely optional for world citizenship. If you are not trolling here, now is your chance to try to talk to people instead of just tossing out weird "who cares" comments. You don't solve US foreign policy problems being snarky to people on the internet.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 5:06 PM on September 7, 2011 [3 favorites]


the Iolaire

Catherine-Ann MacPhee doing a beautiful version of Raoir Reubadh an Iolaire.
posted by Abiezer at 5:12 PM on September 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


Metatalk is 99% snark!

And Metafilter is 99.9% US-centric, any dissenting / contrary voices are generally shouted / snarked down, a fact that you just sorta suck up and deal with (I've been here under a couple of names for a decade).

I'm trying to talk here but not many folk like what I'm saying.
posted by R.Stornoway at 5:14 PM on September 7, 2011


And Metafilter is 99.9% US-centric

Oh BS. There's a heavy demographic influence because of a majority US readership, but non-US folks are hardly 1-percenters even within the context of those threads that are meaningfully geocentric in a way where it would be an issue.
posted by cortex (staff) at 5:16 PM on September 7, 2011


In the interest of distracting everyone from the growing tension, and in the interest of proclaiming my appreciation for an awesome comment, allow me to say:

MissySedai, I am hereby offering to make out with you for five minutes. If you're interested.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:18 PM on September 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


Oh BS Cortex. MeFi is not even a slightly level playing field for unfettered, unbiased discussion. It's like debating Obamacare on Fox News (sorry just giving you analogy you can relate to).

Just out of interest what are the non (pro) US demographics in percentage terms?
posted by R.Stornoway at 5:24 PM on September 7, 2011


MeFi is not even a slightly level playing field for unfettered, unbiased discussion.

That isn't what he said. What he said was that it's not 99% US-centric. And even within the US demographic there are a wide range of opinions. As I said, it's not what I'd call true diversity but it's far from an echo chamber. We're not a news site and we're not claiming that the discussion here is unfettered or unbiased. We try to keep the playing field level such that someone who wants to actually talk about things can do so without getting hollered at by assholes. This mostly works, it doesn't always.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 5:32 PM on September 7, 2011 [2 favorites]


MeFi is not even a slightly level playing field for unfettered, unbiased discussion.

You're telling people off about, apparently, the ongoing coverage by the US media of a major terrorist attack on the US, and claiming silly figures like 99.9%. I'm not claiming mefi is a blank, neutral slate without demographic biases, I'm calling BS on the gap between the actual reality (majority US demographic, significant non-US demographic, no official US demographic focus, lots and lots of threads that have nothing to do with geographic location in any case) and that.

I just don't know why you're even pushing on this like this. You're tired of 9/11 coming up again and again. Great. So are a whole lot of Americans. Turns out that that doesn't stop our media from milking the subject around the tenth anniversary. Feel free to call up the cable networks and complain to them. I will high five you for it.

Just out of interest what are the non (pro) US demographics in percentage terms?

Matt would know, I don't look at the analytics. Last I can remember it being mentioned, I want to say about 70% US traffic, with the second largest cohort the UK.
posted by cortex (staff) at 5:34 PM on September 7, 2011


EmpressCallipygos - I'm totally in. We can even let well-mannered MeFites watch, if you like.
posted by MissySedai at 5:42 PM on September 7, 2011 [2 favorites]


Then let me talk. I've two mods weighing in here, if Matt shows up I'll know I'm making waves.

Point is it's a little worrying that comments can't be made that run contrary to the MeFi majority. I'm not trolling here, these are heartfelt opinions.

99.9% is a figurative statement obviously, in the absence of data how would I know?

I'm not tired of 911 coming up again and again, I'm tired if the rhetoric and reaction from Americans. So broken, so hurt, so angry, so neurotic about what the event means.

It means nothing.

No more than hundreds of thousands of people who go through this stuff every day.

It's been ten years. The world needs you to stop mawkish and move on. Take the lead and stop fucking the rest of us up.
posted by R.Stornoway at 5:43 PM on September 7, 2011


That is certainly a provocative thesis. Emphasis on the provocation part.
posted by absalom at 5:46 PM on September 7, 2011


Hmm drunken posting LET ME TALK
posted by angrycat at 5:46 PM on September 7, 2011


Then let me talk.

Uh...you ARE being allowed to talk. As evidenced by the Sledgehammer of Tender Enlightenment not falling upon your head.
posted by MissySedai at 5:48 PM on September 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


Point is it's a little worrying that comments can't be made that run contrary to the MeFi majority.

Um....since your comments are appearing, I am not so sure it's accurate to say that such comments CAN'T be made.

And as for the rest of the country being "mawkish" -- look, I agree with you on that, but honestly, you're coming across as a bit of a wanker here. (And that makes ME look bad by default, for sharing the "I wish it would stop already" sentiment, so....we're not saying you're not allowed to, we're asking you to do it for us as a FAVOR.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:49 PM on September 7, 2011 [2 favorites]


The fact that 9/11 is now Patriots Day and not World Peace Day or World Togetherness Day or Community Awareness Day speaks reams and reams about how twisted and messed up this remembrance really is. 9/11 should be about how vulnerable we really are, how connected we are and accountable we are to the rest of the world, and it should recall how, for the first time in a long time, America had the love and sympathy and well-wishes of nearly every person across the world. People reached out to us and we got to see the best of nearly everyone. 9/11 should have changed the rhetoric to "We're all in this together" and instead we got, "You're either with us or you're against us".

I'm not sure yet how I feel about the actual event but it's the way that America is expected to "remember" 9/11 that is the real tragedy.
posted by Deathalicious at 5:49 PM on September 7, 2011 [4 favorites]


in the absence of data how would I know?

Perhaps by paying attention to the information given to you by other MeFites and/or their profile pages and/or what people say when this discussion comes up? I know you're a long-time user, but that data point seems in conflict with the amount you seem to be paying attention here. We have large chunks of users from the UK, Australia and slightly smaller groups from Japan and other parts of Europe. Lots of Americans of various stripes feel exactly the same way you do. Others do not. Both groups, as well as many others, are well represented on MetaFilter. I'm not sure who you are arguing against, but it appears to be a few individuals whose perspectives you are magnifying as if they represent everyone on the site, or even the site itself. If that's the case, take it up with those individuals; just because they say they are speaking for other people, doesn't make it true, same as for you.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 5:54 PM on September 7, 2011 [4 favorites]


Not just a fucking Merlot. A cheap fucking Merlot.

It's $19.11. Because if there's one thing that's classy, it's pricing it at the same amount as the date of a tragedy, and then adding $10.
posted by Deathalicious at 5:58 PM on September 7, 2011 [3 favorites]


I'm trying to talk here but not many folk like what I'm saying.

I think most people here appreciate what you're trying to say, but no one likes the way in which you're saying it.
posted by Deathalicious at 6:06 PM on September 7, 2011 [2 favorites]


Wait, this isn't the 'bitch about Talk Like A Pirate Day' thread!!!
posted by Ardiril at 6:26 PM on September 7, 2011


Ya, even I think saying MetaFilter is "99% US-centric" is completely absurd, and I bitch about the "MetaFilter by Americans for Americans" thing all the time.
posted by Chuckles at 6:57 PM on September 7, 2011


even I think saying MetaFilter is "99% US-centric" is completely absurd

You're right! Know what'd be catchier? "99 and 44/100ths% US-centric"!
posted by Miko at 7:24 PM on September 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


I'm trying to talk here but not many folk like what I'm saying.

any dissenting / contrary voices are generally shouted / snarked down


If you read any MetaTalk thread for long enough, eventually this basic inability to distinguish a bad reaction to the manner of a comment from a bad reaction to the content of that comment will surface. It's like some kind of Godwin's Law for the gray.

Seriously folks, if you start posting here and everyone starts yelling at you, consider the possibility that the reason is not that you're a bold iconoclast speaking uncomfortable truth to power. Consider the possibility that the reason is that you're phrasing your opinions in an inflammatory and abrasive way, and that people have no interest in listening to any opinions that are presented that way.
posted by Ragged Richard at 8:50 PM on September 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


On the contrary, it's been my experience that people here generally can't get enough of opinions phrased in an inflammatory and abrasive way, provided the opinions are those they already entertain.
posted by stinkycheese at 9:03 PM on September 7, 2011 [2 favorites]


My new slogan is 9-11: just get over it already. It sucked. People I knew died. I was really depressed. But suit that was years ago. Bin Laden is dead, we got our revenge. No sense moping about the house anymore. I say forget 9-11 and the Alamo.
posted by humanfont at 9:27 PM on September 7, 2011


I say if we don't drop this acid right now the terrorists have won.
posted by philip-random at 10:37 PM on September 7, 2011


Purchase membership to majority American internet community.
--->Complain about Americans posting frequently on the site.

Enter thread full of people aggravated by 9/11 overexposure
--->Moan about how your highly unique view that you are aggravated by 9/11 --->overexposure is being suppressed by people who just can't handle the truth!
posted by Winnemac at 10:40 PM on September 7, 2011


There are two or three horses in this race and they are running into each other. In addition, Ragged Richard has probably made the clearest point why there's chaos - framing vs content/intent.

I can see what R. Stornaway is saying but as has already been said, this isn't the thread to say that.

Individuals dealing with a very painful episode in their lives are an entirely different thing from the global media barrage that the US disseminates.

MeFi has indeed become more global and is opening up more and more as time goes on. Its probably the best place on the english language internet for a reasonably global conversation.

Yes, there are drawbacks, like the derail into Republicans and the US civil service in a thread about an entirely different country and continent's politics.

And indeed, there are the voices that make you hesitate before saying something that goes against the official party line of the projection of propaganda.

But that is not this group here, in this thread, nor is it the mainstream of Metafilter's community.

In fact sometimes I wonder how much of that is paid astroturfing by institutional sockpuppets to fight the cyberwar of information and perception but that's a digression.

On the other hand, it is a valid point that just as this upcoming date on Sunday has impact and meaning for many in one sense, it has had as much impact if not more (and unrelentingly if you happen to have lived in modern Sumeria) to the lives of individuals and nations in other parts of the world. This makes the global media barrage come across quite exactly as what R Stornaway articulated in their comment. That really is what you want to say to the US.

So, do we see if an FPP can be made (maybe by a mod?) on international perspectives on this anniversary as a way to balance what comes across internationally in the messaging (not specific to within MeFi but in context of the entire internet browsing experience) or shall we simply acknowledge this and move on.
posted by infini at 11:30 PM on September 7, 2011 [2 favorites]


In fact sometimes I wonder how much of that is paid astroturfing by institutional sockpuppets to fight the cyberwar of information and perception but that's a conspiracy theory.
posted by clavdivs at 1:14 AM on September 8, 2011


What's the going rate for working from home on the internet?
posted by infini at 1:48 AM on September 8, 2011


do we see if an FPP can be made (maybe by a mod?)

I can tell you with 100% certainty that this will not happen. None of us particularly enjoy political-type posts and while we all accept that they're posts that the community often enjoys, I am sure none of us will be making such a post.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:15 AM on September 8, 2011


infini: " In fact sometimes I wonder how much of that is paid astroturfing by institutional sockpuppets to fight the cyberwar of information and perception but that's a digression."

Suspect it's probably somewhat rare here. Many people who participate on MeFi do so across many threads, not just on one or two topics.
posted by zarq at 7:50 AM on September 8, 2011


I'd say exceedingly rare only because I'm not quite daring enough to say never. Metafilter is a far, far easier place to stand out like a sore thumb than e.g. the public comments section of a blog, which means low-rent turfers would be as conspicuous as the spammers we routinely clean up after and ban. What's the ROI on sending a really polished turfer to Metafilter? We're not a blog known for political analysis or influence the way that a bunch of other places are.

People are people; they have their own opinions, and express them with varying amounts of grace and nuance, and often disagree with each other, and that's just life out in the world. Inflitration of a random web community by paid propagandists for vague reasons and no clear return on the effort is an extraordinary claim that requires more of an argument for it than "I wonder". Bored people trolling for lulz are far likelier, and even for that Metafilter's not great soil since we've got a signup fee, attentive moderation, and a savvy and cohesive userbase with access to and a will to use feedback mechanisms to let us know when something feels weird.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:03 AM on September 8, 2011


People are people; they have their own opinions, and express them with varying amounts of grace and nuance, and often disagree with each other, and that's just life out in the world. Inflitration of a random web community by paid propagandists for vague reasons and no clear return on the effort is an extraordinary claim that requires more of an argument for it than "I wonder".

Sometimes there has a been a faint whiff in the air which led to this articulation but nothing like the obvious elsewhere.

which means low-rent turfers would be as conspicuous as the spammers we routinely clean up after and ban. What's the ROI on sending a really polished turfer to Metafilter? We're not a blog known for political analysis or influence the way that a bunch of other places are.

This is true. I let my thoughts wander away with my fingers in my wondering because logically, given these facts, it just doesn't make sense. I don't actually believe and neither do I want to believe this could be so.

But I'm just going to articulate what my hindbrain is saying, if that is alright, or is it better that we don't put it down in words and hit publish after all?
posted by infini at 8:24 AM on September 8, 2011


In Metatalk, as an abstract, "I sometimes wonder about phenomenon X" is totally fine. Specific targeted accusations along the lines of "User X is probably a paid agent turfing us" in a thread is pretty much a non-starter. Vague stuff that suggests that without quite amounting to an explicit accusation also pretty much sucks.

If someone's got a specific concern that something might actually be up, the way to go is to drop us a line at the contact form, tell us why you think that might be going on, and let us look into it. That way, if there's a problem we can take a hard look, and if there's not so much a problem and maybe you're just feeling spooked, we don't have people publicly accusing each other of seriously crappy motives on the site.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:31 AM on September 8, 2011


> It's been ten years. The world needs you to stop mawkish and move on. Take the lead and stop fucking the rest of us up.

It's odd that you've decided to die on this hill, since the prevailing sentiment here, among Americans even, is that we'd like to see less 9/11 posts and that all the coverage is annoying. Then you go presuming to speak to all of America from a tiny corner of the internet as if you're making some bold statement.

Anyway, it looks like you disabled your account. The pile on here to your remarks, while not unwarranted, was rather boorish in its own way. But, you totally misread the intent of the Metatalk post here and the sentiments of most of the posters.
posted by Horselover Phattie at 8:36 AM on September 8, 2011


> But I'm just going to articulate what my hindbrain is saying

Your hindbrain has nothing to do with that, really.
posted by Horselover Phattie at 8:39 AM on September 8, 2011



If i came across as accusing anyone I'm sorry. I was surprised myself when the situation seemed to form as though I was pointing fingers.
posted by infini at 8:55 AM on September 8, 2011


Your hindbrain has nothing to do with that, really

I like your new handle.
posted by infini at 8:56 AM on September 8, 2011


I'm wearing pants.
posted by Horselover Phattie at 8:57 AM on September 8, 2011


As per usual, you guys are welcome to take whatever this is to email.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:01 AM on September 8, 2011


Or more specifically welcome in a for-realsies sense to not take it to a thread in the first place. Ignore one another entirely if necessary.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:04 AM on September 8, 2011


Done.
posted by infini at 9:09 AM on September 8, 2011


um. outing someone's bnd seems like an unnecessarily jerkish form of argument.
posted by elizardbits at 9:16 AM on September 8, 2011


No one's been outed?
posted by zarq at 10:13 AM on September 8, 2011


um. outing someone's bnd seems like an unnecessarily jerkish form of argument.

Exactly. Any more of this and we'll start giving folks some time off. It's 100% avoidable.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 10:13 AM on September 8, 2011


I'm wearing pants.

Where's the fun in that?
posted by MissySedai at 11:05 AM on September 8, 2011 [1 favorite]


Where's the fun in that?

Having someone take them off.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:12 AM on September 8, 2011


Having someone take them off.

I suppose that's so, but it seems like an unnecessary delay.
posted by MissySedai at 11:14 AM on September 8, 2011


Not if you're wearing Depends.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:15 AM on September 8, 2011


So, what the hell's a bnd?
posted by Ardiril at 11:24 AM on September 8, 2011


bnd=Brand New Day=When a person takes a new user name. For example, if cortex closed his current account and created a new account named "Buccinator", then he could be said to have a Brand New Day.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:34 AM on September 8, 2011


If someone closes their account and starts out with a fresh new identity, that's called a BND or "brand new day."

If someone was particularly a controversial or outspoken figure on MeFi, then taking a BND would be a way for them to make a break from their previous incarnation.

It is against site policy to out BND accounts. My understanding is that when it happens by accident, there are usually no consequences.
posted by zarq at 11:35 AM on September 8, 2011


My next account will be called Brizzle Nizzle Dizzle and will communicate solely in inflections of Snoop Dogg lyrics.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:35 AM on September 8, 2011


Ah, doesn't apply to me then. ;-P
posted by Ardiril at 11:37 AM on September 8, 2011


And yeah, the flip side of the BND thing is that if someone wants to come back under a new account and not make the connection to their previous username, we'll support that as much as is reasonable but the compromise on their end is that they need to not just do the exact same stuff they were doing before. Expecting people not to notice the same behavior manifesting in the same way under a different handle is on the unreasonable side.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:40 AM on September 8, 2011 [1 favorite]


I put a very basic definition on the wiki for future reference. Will link it on the sockpuppet page as well.
posted by zarq at 11:53 AM on September 8, 2011


No mention of MetaFilter, but the following rings true for our community.
On 9/11, The Seeds Of The Infinite Grapevine
"A decade of technological change since 9/11 has fundamentally changed the way we experience news events, but the foundation for that change was already visible in 2001."
posted by ericb at 2:07 PM on September 9, 2011


I put a very basic definition on the wiki for future reference.

I edited it slightly. The big things about BND is

- almost any user can come back under a new username, whether they left of their own accord or were banned
- we expect members to give that person a new chance, presuming the user is not exhibiting whatever behaviors got them banned in the first place
- we expect people to not out people as being the same person as previous users or even to say that they think they're an old user under a new name
- once that information is public, however, its hard to put the genie back in the bottle and we expect people to be understanding
- given this, we expect people to not just change usernames all the time when the mood strikes them, this is a mostly one-time deal thing with a few exceptions
- that said if people are using this to fuck with the site, or other people here, they've basically got one chance, not the usual three chances, to make it right
- ask us if you have questions
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 2:24 PM on September 9, 2011 [1 favorite]


Much improved. Thanks. :)
posted by zarq at 2:31 PM on September 9, 2011


My cunning two-point plan is to avoid MeFi and most other websites on Sunday, and to post something Monday to help give those so inclined something else to talk about.
posted by Zed at 11:23 PM on September 9, 2011 [1 favorite]


That's a nice plan. I think I'll look for something totally different for an FPP as well.

Wait, maybe a mass FPP-in on lolcats, flash games, long reads and more fashion tidbits!
posted by infini at 8:52 AM on September 10, 2011


Yeah, tomorrow might be a good time to revisit Israeli/Palestine conflict, but from a fat acceptance point of view.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:50 AM on September 10, 2011


What's the going rate for working from home on the internet?

Your the expert, but that this point....
posted by clavdivs at 11:58 AM on September 11, 2011


That wasn't so bad, after all.
posted by theora55 at 8:54 PM on September 11, 2011


9/11: A Conspiracy Theory
posted by stinkycheese at 8:57 AM on September 13, 2011


> 9/11: A Conspiracy Theory

Are you going to drop that in every 9/11 thread?

Also, here's a coloring book.
posted by Horselover Phattie at 9:01 AM on September 13, 2011


Are you going to drop that in every 9/11 thread?

It's a fantastic (five minute) summation of how ridiculous it is to take the Commission's Report at face value. I have posted it in a total of two threads.
posted by stinkycheese at 9:27 AM on September 13, 2011


Well, since this has become the "reaction to the day" thread, there's always the furor over Paul Krugman's opinion piece, which apparently hurt poor Donald Rumsfeld's feelings so much he cancelled his subscription.

Although, Jon Stewart did it better.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:36 AM on September 13, 2011


He did a great job.

9/13/01 NEVAR FORGET
posted by Miko at 9:45 AM on September 13, 2011


It's a fantastic (five minute) summation of how ridiculous it is to take the Commission's Report at face value.

It is a great video. Certainly a lot of the 9/11 truther community has gone off the deep end in the last 5-6 years, but the video makes it clear that there are still lots of legitimate questions. Lots of information that should be public knowledge, but is being kept secret because.. Well, I'm not going there, it is a secret.
posted by Chuckles at 12:26 PM on September 13, 2011 [1 favorite]


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