MeFi Horror Film Club, #5: Martyrs July 10, 2014 5:18 PM   Subscribe

We're going non-English again this week, but also taking a dip in the more extreme end of horror. Martyrs, a 2008 French film by Pascal Laugier is emphatically not for beginners. It's so violent, in fact, that it is sometimes lumped in with films like Saw and Hostel as "torture porn." The twist is, this film has--so I am given to understand (haven't seen it yet myself)--an ending that casts the subgenre in an entirely different light, and considerably more thought and sense of purpose than the genre typically bothers with. It is--I want to emphasize again--seriously and ceaselessly violent and upsetting.

Plot description:
Lucie, a 10 year old girl, is found wandering in the streets, bruised and bloodied. Unable to say who did this to her, or why, she is placed in a hospital where she meets Anna, another young girl who had been abused. Fifteen years later, with Anna s help, Lucie sets out to get revenge on her attackers. When she believes she has found the couple who abused her, she confronts them ...and that is when the terror truly begins.
Pick #6 is locked in, too, but we'll wait on announcing that.

Unlike in previous weeks, there weren't many clear favorites for this week's pick. There was however, some spirited discussion at the mere mention of this film, though, so that bodes well for a full on thread. Plus, it satisfied both the initial plan for pick #5 (non-English) and the revised plan (an "extreme" pick) so it ends up getting the nod.

The next open slot for us will be pick #7. This will be a "recent" pick, from the last ten or so years. Bonus points if it's something few of us have seen, but if you want to make a case why a widely seen film deserves discussion, that is cool, too.

Beyond this, there is exactly one guideline for suggestions: please include your findings about primary streaming options (check, Instant Watcher, and the various Reddit Full Movies threads). Your awesome suggestion may get inadvertently ignored if each person who wants to consider it has to research it because you couldn't be bothered.
posted by DirtyOldTown to MetaFilter-Related at 5:18 PM (72 comments total) 8 users marked this as a favorite

Martyrs is available for digital rental on both YouTube and Google Play, for $2.99.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 5:21 PM on July 10, 2014

Finally, something outside of my comfort zone. I have been saying how I dont like horror movies, but none of the movies we have watched so far have really pushed me at all. Yahooo!
posted by Literaryhero at 5:46 PM on July 10, 2014

Sweet! I've been looking forward to forcing myself to rewatch this (I bought the DVD not long after I saw the movie, and then never, ever took it out of the wrapper). This should be fun, but anyone who's dug the subtler stuff we've been watching, and maybe doesn't usually play this rough: You Are Warned.

My suggestions for recent stuff: Jim Mickle's Stake Land and We Are What We Are (2013) are really good, and both are streaming on Netflix (Mickle also directed the Joe R. Lansdale adaptation Cold in July, which I haven't seen yet but which by all accounts is excellent). Also streaming is Contracted, a raw indie that's very new and which I was very much jazzed by; the inexperience of its makers shows at times, but the intelligence and enthusiasm and talent excited me.

(PS: Are we still doing Sleepaway Camp at some point?)
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:59 PM on July 10, 2014 [1 favorite]

You guys done "Let the Right One In"?
posted by cjorgensen at 6:16 PM on July 10, 2014

Does anyone get burned in this movie? I can handle ultra violence, until someone gets burned. Even a little bit. Then I pass out.

A simple "yes" or "no" would be appreciated. You don't have to describe anything.

Did I mention that phobias suck?
posted by double block and bleed at 6:16 PM on July 10, 2014

I already know that there's no way I can watch this, I am too much of a wuss, but I am totally okay with reading this stuff. Is there a good synopsis? I started reading the IMDB one and it's disjointed and full of typos.
posted by desjardins at 6:18 PM on July 10, 2014

It's pretty much an open secret that Sleepaway Camp is pick #6. It'll be a shared thing the Summer Camp Movie Club. Announcing picks two at a time was good for decluttering MeTa but bad for keeping people talking about Horror Club. So we'll announce that (probably jointly) in a week.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:22 PM on July 10, 2014

Aw, man, I didn't mean to spoiler!
posted by kittens for breakfast at 6:38 PM on July 10, 2014

Great pick. I'm going to assume that my mention of Martyrs in the recent torture porn AskMe helped bring it to mind. Mostly because it boosts my already probably inflated ego.

I wonder what fraction of Mefi people watching the film will make it all the way through?
posted by Justinian at 6:41 PM on July 10, 2014

Yup, that one started with you, Justinian.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:42 PM on July 10, 2014

Pick #8 will be a wild card. No discussion required. Selection method already in motion. It will be announced after week seven goes live.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:43 PM on July 10, 2014

You're not supposed to feed my ego. It's big enough already.
posted by Justinian at 6:47 PM on July 10, 2014

Are you all going to do Audition at some point?
posted by winna at 6:53 PM on July 10, 2014

When are we going to discuss this?
posted by govtdrone at 6:54 PM on July 10, 2014

Resolution is supposed to be really good (haven't watched it yet and have been avoiding spoilers) and is on Netflix and Amazon Prime. So is V/H/S if people want to dip into the whole "found footage" thing.
posted by kagredon at 6:58 PM on July 10, 2014

I was kinda disappointed by Resolution, but V/H/S has some great stuff in it (and some less great stuff, but that's an anthology for you).
posted by kittens for breakfast at 7:01 PM on July 10, 2014

When are we going to discuss this?

We are discussing now. The only guideline for the next selection is recent (within the last ten years). Non-English films are not technically disallowed, but since there's a whole rotation slot devoted to those, I imagine you'd have to make a pretty convincing case.

Given that we don't have any simple and directly democratic means available to us and given the free form nature of MeFi, I have so far just sort of proposed a framework for a pick, collected suggestions, then chosen something that seemed representative. When multiple favorites emerge, I MeMail a mess of folks to read the room. In other cases, I just pick something and cross my fingers. If my picks start to lose favor or we come up with a better way, that would be cool. But for now, this seems to be working,
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:03 PM on July 10, 2014

I would like to put a word in for John Dies at the End which is a pretty winning mix of Army of Darkness-like horror comedy, Lovecraftian horror, trippy mindfuck, and memorable cult weirdness. Plus Paul Giamatti.

Opening scene.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:22 PM on July 10, 2014 [4 favorites]

Maybe Snowtown?
posted by dontjumplarry at 8:24 PM on July 10, 2014

Oh, I totally forgot about JDatE. I totally want to see that. I loved the book and I will come out and say I am a huge fan of David Wong.
posted by Literaryhero at 8:46 PM on July 10, 2014

I haven't seen JDatE and would like to. I also still haven't seen [Rec] but I'm guessing that most everyone else has.

Has everyone seen The Orphanage already? Because that's one of my all-time favorite horror movies.

Also, I know I've mentioned it before and it doesn't seem to be widely available at the moment but I really, really want to discuss Triangle with y'all.
posted by triggerfinger at 8:54 PM on July 10, 2014

Triangle really needs a better streaming option than 360p YouTube. But heck yeah, that movie is fully awesome and it's on my wishlist, too.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:15 PM on July 10, 2014

double block and bleed: "Does anyone get burned in this movie? I can handle ultra violence, until someone gets burned. Even a little bit. Then I pass out."

Not as far as I remember. But it's pretty fucking bad anyway.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 2:15 AM on July 11, 2014 [1 favorite]

("Bad" as in "hard to watch", not "bad movie". It's a very good movie, I think, just extremely unpleasant.)
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 2:16 AM on July 11, 2014

(Also, I thought I was the first to mention Martyrs, but I might be misremembering.)
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 2:17 AM on July 11, 2014

Within the last ten years or so... That's an interesting one. I'm curious, what do people think is the absolutely scariest horror movie of the last 10-15 years?
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 2:19 AM on July 11, 2014

Joakim Ziegler: "Within the last ten years or so... That's an interesting one. I'm curious, what do people think is the absolutely scariest horror movie of the last 10-15 years?"

If you're at all claustrophobic, then the first half of The Descent is absolutely terrifying.
posted by Grither at 5:32 AM on July 11, 2014 [5 favorites]

I'm curious, what do people think is the absolutely scariest horror movie of the last 10-15 years?

"No Country for Old Men."
posted by cjorgensen at 5:57 AM on July 11, 2014 [3 favorites]

Did you just break my sarcasm meter, cjorgensen?
posted by Literaryhero at 6:47 AM on July 11, 2014

great now I can think of nothing but how much I want to make a horror movie about a serial killer on JDate.
posted by griphus at 6:53 AM on July 11, 2014 [2 favorites]

Also No Country for Old Men was scary as hell at points. The entire scene between Chigurh and Moss in the hotel definitely ranks on my top 10 scariest scenes list of the last decade.
posted by griphus at 6:55 AM on July 11, 2014 [4 favorites]

I really enjoyed The Baby's Room. It's Spanish and part of the "6 Films to Keep You Awake" collection thingy. Very creepy ghost story.
posted by Hoopo at 9:02 AM on July 11, 2014 [1 favorite]

Joakim Zeigeler, you were the first to bring up Martyrs in the Horror Club threads, I think, yeah. Justinian was referring to him bringing it up in AskMe not long before that.

You get the cool points for bringing it to the club, though.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:05 AM on July 11, 2014

Oh shit, I'm finally going to have to watch this thing, aren't I? I bought a copy of Martyrs years ago and it's been sitting on my shelf, in its cellophane wrapper, ever since. Every now and then I ask myself, 'Is today the day you feel like watching the film all your horror fan pals describe as the most emotionally brutal and disturbing film they've ever seen?' and the answer is always 'YEAH NO THANKS MAYBE ANOTHER TIME'.

But this is it. I guess today is the day. Or maybe... tomorrow.
posted by EXISTENZ IS PAUSED at 9:28 AM on July 11, 2014

I think I'm gonna skip this week. I like my horror fun. This sounds less than pleasant.
posted by Hoopo at 10:17 AM on July 11, 2014 [1 favorite]

desjardins, Rich Juzwiak posted a somewhat detailed review back in the fourfour days. It's full of spoilers, but doesn't really detail much of the gore.
posted by peep at 10:49 AM on July 11, 2014 [2 favorites]

Did you just break my sarcasm meter, cjorgensen?

I hope not. That movie gave me bad dreams and Chigurh is the scariest monster in some time.
posted by cjorgensen at 10:59 AM on July 11, 2014

A lone dissenting voice (there's always one!). I watched Martyrs with a bunch of people (8 or so) on a large projection screen, because nobody had seen it at that point, and it had something of a rep. Plus there were quite a few Francofiles among the generally film-related crowd. It was a disaster. We ended up laughing through it, it was so bad. Clumsy, moronic, zero scares, just bad. Without going into spoilers, yeah, the main 'twist' was something you saw a mile away and it was just marking time until the tedious end. How bad was it? On the level of "it was just a dreeeaaam...!" bad. The only fun part was watching it in a group, so there was a lot of laughter. Embarrassment. The evening was not a waste though, the food was good and then we got into the wines.

Now, mind you, I'm a huge horror film buff, so I'm always on the lookout for good examples of the genre, but - for me and at least the people at that gathering - Martyrs was a joke. Your mileage may vary, in matters of taste, etc., etc., qualifiers of course always apply.
posted by VikingSword at 11:12 AM on July 11, 2014 [1 favorite]

I'm curious, what do people think is the absolutely scariest horror movie of the last 10-15 years?

Kairo is my go-to answer here. There's one scene, especially, with a ghost walking toward the camera that's just incredibly well executed. I saw it at a screening at Lincoln Center and it felt like all of the air suddenly left the room as my gooseflesh went up. I'll never, ever forget that moment. And the original [Rec] is pretty damned scary, too, and gets scarier all the way up to the very end.

We ended up laughing through [Martyrs], it was so bad. Clumsy, moronic, zero scares, just bad.

Yeah, that's a decidedly minority experience of Martyrs, I think. I'm not a big fan, but I think it's obviously special in its way. Also, I don't know if it's one of those movies that benefits, necessarily, from the communal viewing experience.
posted by Mothlight at 1:26 PM on July 11, 2014 [2 favorites]

Yes, tastes will differ. I don't think it was the case of 'not suited for communal viewing', because I have very concrete technical objections to the design of that movie and the effects calculus, but that's a post for the discussion itself, so I'll wait for that. Incidentally, my wife ordered it through netflix a few months ago, upon recommendation by someone at her work, and she had no idea I'd already seen it... fwiw, she found it very poor too, but that may be because our taste in film and music is pretty similar.
posted by VikingSword at 1:55 PM on July 11, 2014

I think Martyrs is a pretty damned good horror film (with some problems as a film), but heed the warning in the OP. I'll also add that the movie has some of the most brutal violence-against-women stuff you're ever going to see, so if that's something you aren't down for, keep that in mind.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 3:35 PM on July 11, 2014

Also, I don't know if it's one of those movies that benefits, necessarily, from the communal viewing experience.

Yeah, some horror movies are better with friends; last year's Evil Dead remake was a blast to watch in the theater. But I think this goes back to the conversation in the Carnival of Souls thread about the MST3K effect, where the way you approach a movie is going to have a lot to do with its effect on you. If a group of friends in a party mood watch a movie that's really kind of a grueling downer, I think they're more likely to goof on it than surrender to the bum-out it's trying to engender. That such a group can do that even in the face of something like Martyrs is a testament to the spirit of partying that Andrew W.K. would admire, but it doesn't mean Martyrs actually blows.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:04 PM on July 11, 2014 [1 favorite]

I'd like to watch Cirque du Freak and Let the Right One In. I've seen neither.
posted by cjorgensen at 4:47 PM on July 11, 2014

Within the last ten years or so... That's an interesting one. I'm curious, what do people think is the absolutely scariest horror movie of the last 10-15 years?

Wolf Creek. Not least because some of the scenes were inspired by serial murders that happened in my city when I was a kid.
posted by dontjumplarry at 11:57 PM on July 11, 2014

Within the last ten years or so... That's an interesting one. I'm curious, what do people think is the absolutely scariest horror movie of the last 10-15 years?

I would actually have to go with The Orphanage, which gave me nightmares and made me scared to walk around my house in the dark for years after I saw it. Or A Tale of Two Sisters. Mind you, I'm sure there are more frightening films that I haven't seen: I like horror movies but don't go out of my way to watch them.

I am very much not down for Martyrs, but I hope to join in with you all at some point!
posted by daisyk at 6:08 AM on July 12, 2014

The last time I saw Martyrs I had about the same reaction to it that VikingSword did, but I'm curious to see it again and I'll try to keep an open mind.

As far as purely scary movies from fairly recently, I thought the first Ju-On movie was pretty good at setting up an impending sense of dread, plus there was a sense of randomness and inescapability that worked really well, I thought. Of course, since then the asian horror trope of the ghost woman with long black hair has become a hoary old cliche, and the images have probably lost a lot of their power. House of the Devil was decently scary too, though it's kind of an idiosyncratic little film.
posted by whir at 10:38 AM on July 12, 2014

Can I ask what people who like films like Martyr and Saw and Hostel get out of them? I am not a fan and really don't understand this at all. Not bothered that people enjoy them, just don't understand. Serious question.
posted by marienbad at 12:02 PM on July 12, 2014

Why do people enjoy the Saw movies? from AskMe.

Note that Martyrs is discussed in the thread so anyone planning to watch the film should probably skip it.
posted by Justinian at 12:16 PM on July 12, 2014 [1 favorite]

Can I ask what people who like films like Martyr and Saw and Hostel get out of them?

I can't give that well-informed an answer because I haven't seen Martyrs yet. But my understanding is that while the level of violence in that film is comparable to Saw or Hostel, it's not really cut from the same cloth. And, in fact, many people bristle at the very notion that it belongs alongside those films, preferring instead to call it part of a "New French Extremism" alongside works like Gaspar Noe's Irreversible.

Again, I haven't seen it myself yet. But from what I have read, placing the one in the same category as the others may be a little facile and reductive. I may change my tune once I see it though, so who knows?
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:37 PM on July 12, 2014 [1 favorite]

My vote for the scariest film of the last ten or so years is The Descent. That was directed by Neil Marshall who is better known for directing the acclaimed Game of Thrones episode, "Blackwater."
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:41 PM on July 12, 2014

I thought the first Saw film was gruesome and cruel, but had a certain puzzle box construction to it that I admired. I didnt care for the first sequel though, as it seemed to emphasize the gruesome and cruel aspects and turn the clever puzzle box thing into a hollow gimmick. I've never seen any of the others. Hostel was horrifying and gripping, but to no particularly sound thematic end, IMO, so I never saw those sequels either.

I would not personally ever say I am for or against extreme violence in horror, but I do feel it has to be necessary to the story and in service of something.

The only film I ever completely refused to see was A Serbian Film, the mere plot description of which on Wikipedia, nasueated, enraged, and offended me. Maybe it's actually a great film. Maybe sewer rat tastes like pumpkin pie. I'll never know. Because of that feeling though, I understand people who won't see Martyrs.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:45 PM on July 12, 2014

Yeah, I actually feel like Martyrs is something like an 8/10 on the extreme scale, whereas A Serbian Film gets up to 9.5/10. I can't recommend the latter to anyone. It offers itself up as a political/social critique in the Salo tradition, but I don't think anyone's being fooled. It's a movie that delights in seeing how far it can take abject, unremitting nastiness, and it really crossed the line even for me.
posted by naju at 12:57 PM on July 12, 2014 [2 favorites]

I have a question: is there a dog that dies in this movie? If not, I can probably hang. Canicidophobia, sorry.
posted by Countess Elena at 1:38 PM on July 12, 2014 [1 favorite]

A Serbian Film was definitely successful at being shocking, and it's well-directed from a technical point of view as well, which is unusual for a movie of that stripe. I agree with naju that I didn't really find its attempts to cloak a lot of disturbing, exploitative sex and violence in some kind of political statement all that convincing, but I can't say it didn't have an effect on me.

I can't speak for anyone else, and I find a lot of "gore-hound" attitudes I see online to be somewhat repellent, but I'm personally interested in movies on the more extreme side of the genre for a lot of the same reasons I'm interested in horror movies generally - I'm interested in the way they function as narratives and I'm interested in what they say about the modern world which produces them. I don't find it too surprising, for instance, that Saw and Hostel came out not long after the Abu Ghraib photos were released, and you can make a pretty strong case linking a lot of the early progenitors of the subgenre, like Last House on the Left, to American attitudes towards the Vietnam War.

Beyond that sort of cultural studies angle, though, I find that a lot of movies on that end of the spectrum don't actually say very much that's all that interesting, and then you're left with just movies intended to titillate and provoke. For some people that's enough to like something, I guess.

Countess Elena, I've only seen Martyrs the one time but I don't remember any dog-related violence in it (or any dogs at all, for that matter). If you want I can send you a MeMail after I watch it to confirm.
posted by whir at 2:02 PM on July 12, 2014 [1 favorite]

Ok, I rewatched it. No violence against animals, though as noted the violence against human beings will require a strong stomach. Looking forward to the discussion.
posted by whir at 4:56 PM on July 12, 2014

Martyrs really messed me up.
posted by phaedon at 7:42 PM on July 12, 2014

I think I'm gonna have to take a pass on this one. I read up about it to the point of spoiling myself to see if I could handle it, and while the concept and the "twist" are pretty neat, it sounds like there's an over-the-top amount and intensity of violence against young women, which is something that I have a sensitivity to. Hell, reading about what happens in this movie makes me want to start the MetaFilter Looking at Pictures of Clouds and Puppies Club.
posted by jbickers at 5:11 PM on July 13, 2014 [1 favorite]

Maybe we really should do JDatE on the next open slot. A comedy would be nice since we'll be doing extreme and slasher in the weeks preceding. There seems to be some support for it from beyond just me too.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 5:31 PM on July 13, 2014 [3 favorites]

This is a three-bowl movie. One bowl is full of delicious popcorn. Mmm, eat it up. Second bowl is for the sick and tears. Oh no, yuck! Third bowl is for you to climb into, screaming, like a soldier subjected to relentless artillery barrages who goes shellshock-insane and tries to force their entire body into their helmet.
posted by turbid dahlia at 9:20 PM on July 13, 2014 [3 favorites]

It's peculiar to me that I've seen horror club referred to twice in MeTa as those folks who watch torture porn. It'd be a bit like referring to a French twentieth century book club as the "smut club" because one time they read Anais Nin and you don't care for her.

Eh, well.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:20 PM on July 14, 2014 [4 favorites]

Maybe it's actually a great film.

It isn't. It's simultaneously horrifying and ridiculous, almost laughably eager to offend. I suppose as an allegorical effort to paint the psychological destruction wrought by the wars in the Balkans, which apparently it was, it succeeds in some way, but the heavy-handed clumsiness of it detracts from it being very effective there, either.

It's memorable as an entry in the ongoing race to the bottom, certainly, but not worth seeing unless you have some special interest in the so-called cinema of the extreme.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 12:18 AM on July 15, 2014 [2 favorites]

I remember initially hearing that the director of A Serbian Film talked it about being an allegorical movie about war to the English (western? can't remember) media, while painting it in a totally different light in Serbia. A lot of people seemed to be of the opinion that it was just a cynical marketing ploy.

Looking at wikipedia now, it seems that the director has said it was a reaction against political correctness, which, well, there may be problems with PC, depending on how you define it, but making something like A Serbian Story as a statement against PC is...well, I can't say that the people who do offensive things because they're bridling against PC have a very good track record.

So, is Martyrs actually going to get posted to Fanfare? Or is it already posted on Fanfare, but in the cabal-only section? Or what?
posted by Bugbread at 1:34 AM on July 15, 2014

I feel like we are discussing the film in the MeTa, which is jumping the gun a bit. Let's wait until the actual thread goes live?
posted by Literaryhero at 3:31 AM on July 15, 2014

So, is Martyrs actually going to get posted to Fanfare?

The horror club movies post on Wednesdays (at the earliest).

And as for my personal scariest of the last decade+, I remember right after seeing [REC] being conscious of the fact that a movie had really scared me for the first time since I want to say the early 90s (Jacob's Ladder leaps to mind). Also I felt a deep, deep chill in one part of Lake Mungo...I wouldn't necessarily put the whole movie on a "scariest of all time" list, but one particular thing got to me more than many other movies in the last several years.
posted by doctornecessiter at 7:38 AM on July 15, 2014 [1 favorite]

There are definitely some horror movies with awesome scenes that outshine the whole. Ghost Ship was garbage but that opening scene with the tension wire was mesmerizing and terrifying.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:43 AM on July 15, 2014 [4 favorites]

I guess I'm going to finally have to finally get around to watching [REC].

BTW in Canada at least, "You're Next" is available for $0.99 rental on the iTunes store. I'm going to watch that first.
posted by Hoopo at 8:36 AM on July 15, 2014

You're Next is a delight. It doesn't take itself that seriously, and its scares are (to me) mostly fun rollercoaster-ride scares.

I'd be all about joining Smut Club, personally. Let me know if anyone gets that going.

Oh! I'll also really jump the gun and say I watched Sleepaway Camp, You guys, I think we have the comedy thing covered next week.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 3:41 PM on July 15, 2014

You're Next is awesome, but as best I can tell, it has crap streaming availability in the US and most other places. I have an alert set up for that one on and will be pushing hard for it when that situation improves.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:29 PM on July 16, 2014 [1 favorite]

I've put the request in to the mods for this week's post on Martyrs. I'll get with Summer Camp Movie Club and we'll put together an announcement post for that next pick that pretty much everyone knows about already.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:30 PM on July 16, 2014

FYI, there won't need to be a discussion post on week 8's pick. I've got something different working for that and the result will be announced after the Week 7 Fanfare post goes live. We can still take votes and suggestions on pick #7, but failing some last minute awesome suggestion out of left field (which happens... see Noroi), I'm fairly confident it's going to be John Dies at the End at this point.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:41 PM on July 16, 2014

I vote for John Dies at the End even though it has already been all but chosen.
posted by Literaryhero at 9:35 PM on July 16, 2014

You're Next is awesome

Can now confirm. It was cute, insofar as a violent slasher movie can be cute.
posted by Hoopo at 11:04 AM on July 17, 2014

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