Can we close bad AskMe threads that take off? March 6, 2005 7:06 AM   Subscribe

I can recall a few times in recent history where a thread that failed to meet the guidelines of AskMetafilter stayed around for a while because no one happened to be around to nip it in the bud -- and then the thread accumulated so many interesting answers that people had gotten attached to it and Matt was reluctant to delete it. I sympathize with this reluctance but also feel that appropriate deletions are good for preventing the mission of AskMe from drifting too far afield. Would the ability to close AskMe threads be a good compromise solution for these cases?
posted by redfoxtail to Feature Requests at 7:06 AM (42 comments total)

I would rather not give the power to delete a thread to everyone. I don't think there would be any threads left!
posted by xammerboy at 7:29 AM on March 6, 2005


xammerboy, you might try responding to what Ms. foxtail is actually proposing rather than to an idea that no one has put forward.

I think her idea is sound. People would complain less vociferously about a thread being closed than they do about deletion.
posted by anapestic at 7:35 AM on March 6, 2005


Would the ability to close AskMe threads be a good compromise solution for these cases?
I worry that it would be used to kill/close AskMes that aren't specificly results-oriented ("how do i make a pc work with a mac" etc), and more answer-oriented or open-ended ("when do you sleep with a date", "time in other cultures", etc.)

Also, threads are already effectively over if/when a best answer is marked, which i also don't like that much, having seen it in action now.
posted by amberglow at 7:36 AM on March 6, 2005


Just to clarify, I had in mind Matt's or Jessamyn's closing the threads, not the person who started the thread, and not random passers-by.
posted by redfoxtail at 7:40 AM on March 6, 2005


The line of what's acceptable is very murky in AskMe, and the nature of the site being what it is, the murkier it is, the more noise we'll see. Leaving some closed threads around might serve as instruction about what's good and what's not. Of course, you'll still have people whinging to MeTa that JessaMatt closed their thread, but not as many as whinge that their threads/comments have been deleted.
posted by anapestic at 7:46 AM on March 6, 2005


I agree with redfoxtail's assessment that there do seem to be a lot of threads that seem to be pushing the guidelines lately. However it's also very unclear whether the AskMe guidelines, as stated, are what people want AskMe to be. In my dream world off-topic AskMe threads could be deleted the way posts are deleted from MeFi proper: removed from the regular AskMe front page and given a stated reason that is visible to everyone in a lofi version. This accomplishes more or less the same end, but keeps some of the clutter down on AskMe's main page for those who aren't interested in MetaAskMe issues.
posted by jessamyn at 8:21 AM on March 6, 2005


I think people want AskMe to be open for all kinds of questions, which is why all kinds are posted. It's a community thing, and our knowledge is far far larger than just practical, specific, results-oriented things.
posted by amberglow at 8:31 AM on March 6, 2005


What you're asking for is that deletions are done like metafilter, where the thread stays, but away from the main page, and the old comments are still seen, with a reason why something was deleted. That's something I've been meaning to do for a while.

Also, btw, Jessamyn no longer deletes anything. She uses the flag system like everyone else.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 8:33 AM on March 6, 2005


I have long thought that working deletions in MeTa and AskMe the same way as in MeFi would be a great feature. I am glad you are two steps ahead of me on this.
posted by caddis at 8:43 AM on March 6, 2005


Also, btw, Jessamyn no longer deletes anything. She uses the flag system like everyone else.

I, for one, bid farewell to our old librarian overlord.
posted by Eamon at 9:11 AM on March 6, 2005


I think people want AskMe to be open for all kinds of questions, which is why all kinds are posted.

It only requires some people to want it to be open to all kinds of questions for all kinds of questions to be posted. Plenty of people want it to have a more limited focus, but the only way they have to make that point is by not posting things they consider appropriate. If we apply your logic, we are forced to accept that most people want chitterlings, slimy okra, and bad breath.
posted by anapestic at 9:42 AM on March 6, 2005


They have here, too, to make their point, which they do, often.

People who are for a more open AskMe are busy making it one. It's what communities do. Many older members spend more time there than in the blue, and it's not because of the strictly practical, results-oriented questions.

Questions are questions, whether they're about hooking a mac to a pc or buying a digital camera, or about dating and life and work etiquette.
posted by amberglow at 9:57 AM on March 6, 2005


our old librarian overlord

Watch it there, bub.
posted by bradlands at 9:58 AM on March 6, 2005


;-)
posted by bradlands at 9:59 AM on March 6, 2005


Also, btw, Jessamyn no longer deletes anything.

That's a damn shame. But congratulations to the whiners!
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 10:08 AM on March 6, 2005


I kid, bradlands... I'm in the fanclub.
posted by Eamon at 10:22 AM on March 6, 2005


People who are for a more open AskMe are busy making it one. It's what communities do. Many older members spend more time there than in the blue, and it's not because of the strictly practical, results-oriented questions.

Speak for yourself!

(I loathe the "hey, let's chat about our childhood questions," though I fully recognize that people like to talk about themselves. I don't think questions about work etiquette, for example, are necessarily impractical or not results-oriented. I think it's a mistake to conflate "help me understand X" questions with broad survey questions that seem mostly to be interested in finding out more about one's fellow Mefites as an end in itself; it seems to me that most of the people who object to the latter are perfectly fine with the former.)
posted by redfoxtail at 10:40 AM on March 6, 2005


I thought amberglow was speaking for himself.

I'm not fond of those chat questions either, and wish there were fewer of them. Obviously, the boats of others float on different fluids. Except that they push stuff I find more interesting off the page, I don't care enough to squawk.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 10:51 AM on March 6, 2005


Sweet. lofi.askme
posted by graventy at 11:50 AM on March 6, 2005


I think this comes back to getting all things Metafilter to use the same code. Is that on the horizon, Matt?

I wish that when you are in viewing comments the number of comments was visible in places other than The Blue.

I wish that my Metafilter settings applied across Metafilter, (open in new window, time zone, (although less strongly about the time zone thing lately)).
posted by geekyguy at 12:03 PM on March 6, 2005


it's also very unclear whether the AskMe guidelines, as stated, are what people want AskMe to be

Note: until some guidelines are cooked up, try to keep the questions from being too specific or too stupid. Don't be an ass, ask your question if you feel it is important.

Are those the "stated guidelines?" Or am I missing another set of them somewhere?
posted by scarabic at 12:48 PM on March 6, 2005


Are there guidelines beside this?

"Ask MetaFilter is a discussion area for sharing knowledge among members of MetaFilter."

Anyway, isn't this still a relatively new forum? Can't we wait a while to find out what works and what doesn't before we make guidelines about what kinds of posts are acceptable? Some of the best posts have been very chatty. For instance, the "how were you punished as a kid?" thread that's there now is great.
posted by xammerboy at 2:22 PM on March 6, 2005


For instance, the "how were you punished as a kid?" thread that's there now is great.


...if you believe what people say in it. On the internet nobody knows you're a dog.

But I tend to be the naysayer, I guess, in these lovefests.
posted by norm at 2:41 PM on March 6, 2005


Are there guidelines beside this?

There's a few more guidelines, but yeah, it's pretty general.

Also, the two semi-explicit guidelines of 'no chatfilter' and 'stay on topic'.

And you're right about some threads, xammerboy, what initially may qualify as some obvious chatfilter ends up provoking some greatly insightful comments. The askme thread that's indicated on the sidebar. I'd still wish those items would be avoided or in some way made relavent to solving a problem.
posted by Arch Stanton at 2:52 PM on March 6, 2005


To clarify-- my problem with these chatty, open-ended questions is not just that anonymous web posting tends to lead to exaggerations at best and out-and-out fiction at worst; it's that chatty posts swamp the best and most helpful aspects of AxeMe with an awful lot of noise.

And maybe I'm just trying to argue to walk back up the slippery slope and this process is inevitable-- but there are an awful lot of places on the internet that let people chat and pump themselves up into big mythical personae, but MeFi has always been different, and I hope it remains so.
posted by norm at 2:57 PM on March 6, 2005


I thought that AskMe thread about formative experiences was pretty awful, actually. Not so much because of Norm's reasons (though I agree with them) as because that sort of fawning navel gazing (no negative comments allowed) leads to a ridiculous sort of self-indulgence. There were any number of a-bully-killed-my-goldfish-in-third-grade-and-my-life-was-ruined posts in that thread. A lot of it was embarrassing.
posted by anapestic at 3:05 PM on March 6, 2005


open-ended questions is not just that anonymous web posting tends to lead to exaggerations at best and out-and-out fiction at worst; it's that chatty posts swamp the best and most helpful aspects of AxeMe with an awful lot of noise.

To you.

quantifiable does not = better. Technical questions are not inherently better questions because they have a precise answer. "Chatty" questions are usefully in different ways.

I don't see how, by answering "how were you punished as a child serves to "let people chat and pump themselves up into big mythical personae." As a parent, I found (find) that thread endlessly usefully. and to me, a lot more useful than a majority of what is on there right now. everyone on that thread stayed on topic. Everyone answered under the guidelines.

Plus, to claim that these posts lead to "exaggerations at best and out-and-out fiction at worst" is insulting to everyone whose answers are contained in those threads.
posted by Quartermass at 3:10 PM on March 6, 2005


my problem with these chatty, open-ended questions is not just that anonymous web posting tends to lead to exaggerations at best and out-and-out fiction at worst

Well, think what you like, naturally, but I see no reason to consider this a fact of life on AskMe, nor anything that could be done about it if it were a fact. If your solution is to pop up every so often and call people fibbers, I think I prefer the "problem." To be fair, you did say it was "your problem" and I think that's accurate.
posted by scarabic at 3:11 PM on March 6, 2005


Maybe I'm just newly cynical because a recently exposed chronic liar was a fixture in AxeMe. Maybe not. I've long hated the chatty wank-fests, and figure if people are openly advocating what I consider a clearly inferior vision of the AxeMe future, I might as well pipe up for what I prefer too.
posted by norm at 3:21 PM on March 6, 2005


Yeah, norm, but the difference is, no one who likes the nonquantifiable questions is trying to make them the only questions.
posted by dame at 3:52 PM on March 6, 2005


Are there guidelines beside this?
Isn't this really the bottom line? I couldn't see the new guidelines in the "post" page because I'm unable to post at this time, but everyone's talking about guidelines, and, outside of reading MetaTalk, I can't find any. How are noobs supposed to know, outside of trial and error, and "getting the feel"? Not to mention, there's the grandaddy-chatty on the front page, so isn't it a mixed-message to then yell "ChatFilter!" when another one pops up?
posted by hellbient at 4:07 PM on March 6, 2005


yup. it's totally mixed-message.
posted by amberglow at 4:29 PM on March 6, 2005


...and what Quartermass said.
posted by hellbient at 4:31 PM on March 6, 2005


sorry, posting drunk again. usefully = useful in both occasions.
posted by Quartermass at 5:09 PM on March 6, 2005


Also, btw, Jessamyn no longer deletes anything.

That's a damn shame. But congratulations to the whiners!


Er, no. Several, at the very least, of us 'whiners' had less problem with the moderation of the green (which was Jessamyn's domain) than with moderation of the gray, which was mostly Matt's. Speaking for myself, only once did I ever disagree with anything Jessamyn ever did. My entire problem (simplified) was that Matt appeared to have lost both his sense of humor and his former light touch.

My point is: lumping everyone who had a problem with the way things were being run together under one umbrella and proclaiming them to be 'whiners' is disingenuous at best.
posted by Ryvar at 5:42 PM on March 6, 2005


Ryvar, quit yer whining.
posted by Quartermass at 5:56 PM on March 6, 2005


This IS MetaTalk, is it not? ;)
posted by Ryvar at 5:57 PM on March 6, 2005


if people are openly advocating what I consider a clearly inferior vision of the AxeMe future

Well, if you're basing this "phenomenon" on un owen, then it's easy to see why it disturbs you. But bear in mind that she's been given the boot. No one's advocating for more of her.
posted by scarabic at 8:18 PM on March 6, 2005


Since it seems it was my AskMefi question the motivated redfoxtail to propose a way to remove the so-called "chatty threads":

How did that particular AskMefi thread fail "to meet the guidelines of AskMetafilter"? And since when has a "bad" post escaped deletion simply because it accumulated a large number of comments? If that type of question/thread is off-base, then why is there a human relations topic heading built into AskMefi? Please help me understand why think it should be removed.

Is it really going to hurt your vision of the green to have questions and discussions that sometimes reach a little beyond things like "what's the best weblog software?" and "what's that song from that movie?"
posted by jca at 2:11 AM on March 7, 2005


The "child whisperer" trick that came out of that thread was a great, possibly very useful, tip.
posted by taz at 2:27 AM on March 7, 2005


jca, it was actually several threads and some idle musing; this wasn't supposed to be a veiled call for your thread to go away, which I think is a separate issue. Anyway, it's not the human relations part I dislike at all -- I'm not lobbying for an AskMe with only tiny, narrow questions. It's not "reaching a little beyond" in terms of subject matter that frets me, it's the vision of seeing the front page of AskMe flooded with "Do you believe people are essentially good or essentially bad?" and "When I was eight, my favorite meal was a Dr. Pepper and a Moon Pie. Now I can't stand either one. Have your tastes changed since you were a kid?"

I just think that threads to do with human relationships fit better into what I understand to be the AskMetafilter mandate (as discussed in other Metatalk threads and elsewhere) when they have a little more "help me solve this problem/mystery/dilemma" direction built into them. So if I were queen of the world, I would have called for your thread to be framed not in terms of having being set a-contemplating by having seen Jamie Foxx's acceptance speech, but some more focused "help me" question. That's all.
posted by redfoxtail at 6:25 AM on March 7, 2005


redfoxtail, I agree that AskMeFi shouldn't turn into a daily edition of Oprah, but I think you're making a mistake by trying to draw such narrow context to what is considered a "focused help me" question/topic.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled "How do I stop farting?" AskMeFi question, already in progress... :)
posted by jca at 10:27 AM on March 7, 2005


« Older It's the best of the web - and it is not in...   |   Ban Alert Newer »

You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments