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Stop crapping in the sports threads
April 29, 2006 3:35 AM   Subscribe

I'm so cool because I don't like sports
posted by insomnus to Etiquette/Policy at 3:35 AM (122 comments total)

Well, 12 minutes after this was posted, I'm guessing we're not getting more inside, so.... What the hell is the point of this post?
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 3:51 AM on April 29, 2006


How about a fucking clue to give those of us following along at home an idea of what this thread is supposed to be about?
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 3:59 AM on April 29, 2006


'cause, you know, without specific and detailed instructions about who I'm supposed to be annoyed at, I'll just have to go to the fallback position and glare at everybody.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:03 AM on April 29, 2006


All those comments that had no other point beyond showing the poster's contempt for sports just rubbed me the wrong way. Perhaps people should have some tolerance towards other people's interests instead of having an automatic "Your favorite band/pastime/hobby/website sucks" attitude. Maybe it's just me.
posted by insomnus at 4:12 AM on April 29, 2006


I would just like to definitively state that I'm cool and I do like sports and I'll shove you into a locker if you don't agree.
posted by allen.spaulding at 4:28 AM on April 29, 2006


glare at everybody

*withers*
posted by Hat Maui at 4:36 AM on April 29, 2006


[SportsNewsFilter] ?

At least it wasn't about poker too. I mean football is bad enough, its like Days of our Lives in tight pants and helmets. (look... spaulding... i'll give you my lunch money if you open the locker... ok?)
posted by R. Mutt at 4:38 AM on April 29, 2006


ah, crap, that might be taken that the wrong way... i mean it lightheartedly. a dull comedy olive branch, if you will.
posted by Hat Maui at 4:38 AM on April 29, 2006


Don't you think you could have just posted your opinion on the matter in the thread? And perhaps had an intelligent discussion about the matter there?
posted by Rhomboid at 4:52 AM on April 29, 2006


That thread was not about whether denigrating other people's interests is cool or not. It was about football.
posted by insomnus at 4:54 AM on April 29, 2006


Substitute is for was. I suck.
posted by insomnus at 4:55 AM on April 29, 2006


It happens a lot. This place is crawling with people who can still feel the snap of wet towels from high school 15 years ago. Are they pretentious? Hell, yeah. Should they be seeing a therapist about it instead of crapping in threads? Probably. Are they going to go away? Only in my dreams.
posted by Mayor Curley at 5:23 AM on April 29, 2006


You gotta appreciate the demographic here. Everybody will jump up to jerk each other off in a WoW thread, but anything about sports probably just conjures up bad memories of wedgies and other harassment from the athletes in high school.

I mean, I wouldn't go into the locker room and insist everybody entertain my discussion about my +4 robe of the archmagi's waterbreathing ability that it bestows. At the very least, while it is their fault for shitting on your topic, I think it's your fault for being so surprised about the whole thing.
posted by GooseOnTheLoose at 5:32 AM on April 29, 2006


Err...What the mayor said.
posted by GooseOnTheLoose at 5:34 AM on April 29, 2006


DOMINO motherfucker.
posted by carsonb at 5:42 AM on April 29, 2006


I agree with you, but I suspect this is one of those occasions where just flagging the offending comments would be best.
posted by shmegegge at 5:42 AM on April 29, 2006


So, I gather the first comment now, by undule, was directed at the jerks who shat in the thread? Because right now, it makes undule look really mean-spirited, which is a shame. Yet another moment when a [comment deleted] marker would help readers make sense of the site.
posted by mediareport at 6:11 AM on April 29, 2006


Enough with the [comment deleted] already for fuck's sake zoidberg!
posted by fleacircus at 6:17 AM on April 29, 2006


No, I think undule is one of the people shitting in the thread.
posted by trey at 6:17 AM on April 29, 2006


I'm so cool because I don't like shorts
posted by wakko at 6:43 AM on April 29, 2006


Undule was the first poster in the thread.
posted by allen.spaulding at 6:44 AM on April 29, 2006


That undule comment was a rubbish. People that attempt to shit on a thread in the first two or three comments really get my goat. It can and sometimes does ruin the whole thread. Do I give a damn about the NFL draft? No. See me commenting in the thread? No.
posted by nthdegx at 7:07 AM on April 29, 2006


Wow, I completely ignored that undule comment. I must be developing some sort of built-in spamfilter.
posted by graventy at 7:24 AM on April 29, 2006


delmoi's post was crap too. At least there was only one of them.
posted by Falconetti at 8:02 AM on April 29, 2006


mediareport writes "So, I gather the first comment now, by undule, was directed at the jerks who shat in the thread? Because right now, it makes undule look really mean-spirited, which is a shame. Yet another moment when a [comment deleted] marker would help readers make sense of the site."

Metafilthy does that for you.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 8:09 AM on April 29, 2006


dirtynumbangelboy : "Metafilthy does that for you."

Kinda. It only shows "comment deleted" if you visited a thread, it had a comment, and you visited again, and the comment is gone. If the comment was deleted before you ever read it, MetaFilthy won't indicate that it was deleted (how could it?)
posted by Bugbread at 8:15 AM on April 29, 2006


I don't even WATCH hockey, and was disapointed it was not another Bush bashing thread.
posted by Balisong at 8:20 AM on April 29, 2006


I wouldn't go into the locker room and insist everybody entertain my discussion about my +4 robe of the archmagi's waterbreathing ability that it bestows.

*puts on his robe and wizard hat*
posted by grouse at 8:55 AM on April 29, 2006


grouse: "I wouldn't go into the locker room and insist everybody entertain my discussion about my +4 robe of the archmagi's waterbreathing ability that it bestows.

*puts on his robe and wizard hat*
"

OMG MASHUP WTF LOL HTH HAND

kthxbye
posted by kcm at 9:22 AM on April 29, 2006


Am I the only one who thinks it takes complete fucking BALLS to complain about derails in a thread that was total fucking newsfilter? Even worse, it was fucking sports news filter.

How is scandal about some football player even remotely the best of the web?

Has b_thinky heard of this?
posted by ereshkigal45 at 9:24 AM on April 29, 2006


the Mayor's a wise man
posted by matteo at 9:32 AM on April 29, 2006


Fuck. It's football. It's men in fucking tights hopped up on steriods running around a fake grass field, grabbing ass on and off field and getting paid way too much for it.

It's war simulcra. It's violence-lust barely sublimated into homoeroticism for those who can't handle the merest whisper of same-sex affection, but desire it so strong it tears at their very souls.

It's governments wasting taxpayer dollars to subsidize huge stadiums for private team owners. It's raw, naked entitlement and prolifigate waste writ large for all to worship.

Fuck football.

Yeah, I'm a nerd, but I never had any towels snapped at me. That's not the source of my derision, as noted above. I'm a large and athletic nerd. I spent much of my HS years taking out jocks and bullies who picked on my fellow nerds. I once ran a 5:40 mile while I weighed 240 pounds. I used to weightlift. I could squat over 450 in huge reps, easy. I'd regularly work out with 1000 pounds on leg presses, so I could skateboard and surf stronger.

My P.E. coach wanted me to play football for my HS so bad he probably wanted to have sex with me. But I had better things to do with my head and knees than pointlessly batter it to a pulp so a bunch of rockers past their prime could get their rocks off and their war on.

Seriously, fuck football. It deserves every ounce of derision and deflating comments it can get.
posted by loquacious at 9:57 AM on April 29, 2006


Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law, so sayeth loquacious, who knows what is best for all of us. Contradiction intended.
posted by Falconetti at 10:18 AM on April 29, 2006


Yet another moment when a [comment deleted] marker would help readers make sense of the site. still leave people confused because they wouldn't know what was being responded to, and would start wondering what they missed, begin obsessing about matt's horrible censorship policy, and derail the thread.
posted by scarabic at 10:19 AM on April 29, 2006


Oooh loquacious, have you been working out?
posted by grouse at 10:20 AM on April 29, 2006


What loquacious said. Football is nothing more than ritualized buggery--the object of the game is to use "backs" and "ends" and "splits" to "penetrate" as deeply as possible into your opponent's territory, and the winner of the game is he who can butt-fuck his opponent the most number of times.

And that FPP was crap. Sportsfilter! Whee.
posted by fandango_matt at 10:23 AM on April 29, 2006


who knows what is best for all of us

Damn straight.
posted by loquacious at 10:34 AM on April 29, 2006


How is sportsfilter any worse than newfilter? There were a bunch of the latter yesterday--Rush getting arrested, Mexico legalizing drugs, youtube economics. Why no surge of complaints about topical links to cnn-type sites?

For you non-sports types, this is a pretty big deal, and post worthy. I'll say it again-- "If you don't fucking like it fucking skip it you fucking twat."

And that isn't irony or meta-commentary. If you don't like it, go away. There are lots of great FPP's, and one suiting your world-view/interests/ideology will come along soon enough. Why is that so hard for some of you ingrates?
posted by bardic at 10:47 AM on April 29, 2006


(The thread turned out pretty nicely, IMO. Thanks to the folks who tried to ruin it. You should all get time-outs.)
posted by bardic at 10:54 AM on April 29, 2006


posted by bardic How is sportsfilter any worse than newfilter?

Because sports are typically a subset of news, the way newspapers and news channels have separate segments devoted specifically to sports. News posts are questionable to begin with, so sportsnews posts make for crappy FPPs. Is the news of selecting cretins for homosexual orgies the best of the web? I think not.
posted by fandango_matt at 11:03 AM on April 29, 2006


.

(the key, not the emotion)
posted by kcm at 11:05 AM on April 29, 2006


Awesome. Now we have two threads for the sports-haters to crap in.
posted by MrZero at 11:16 AM on April 29, 2006


Condescension reflects more poorly on the condescender than on the object of their derision so I wouldn't get too up in arms over it here. I am sure the Mayor is right about one of the main reasons why we see it here. It's certainly possible to not like something and still not make snide remarks about those who do like that thing. Of course, that old maxim, "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" is pretty wildly ignored on the internet. Putting someone else or something else down is usually just a cover for some self perceived weakness. Real men don't do it. I wish I never did.
posted by caddis at 11:20 AM on April 29, 2006


I have a hard time taking "I used to be a badass"-type comments seriously when they are made by people who boast about their leg press(!) numbers.
posted by Kwantsar at 11:32 AM on April 29, 2006


I like that the supposed "homosexual" nature of football is one of the points of derision here.
posted by trey at 11:35 AM on April 29, 2006


All of this "sports-haters must be sissies talk" doesn't detract from the argument this is not only newsfilter, but a subset of newsfilter, as fandango_matt has pointed out. Worse, it's U.S. sportsfilter. At leasts posts about soccer or baseball have some appeal outside of the United States.

It was a shitty post to begin with, and the interest of some posters in discussing the subject doesn't make it Best of the Web.

And yes, I flag a lot of newsfilter posts as well.
posted by ereshkigal45 at 11:40 AM on April 29, 2006


The "best of the web" standard is deprecated.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 11:47 AM on April 29, 2006


I have a hard time taking "I used to be a badass"-type comments seriously when they are made by people who boast about their leg press(!) numbers.

Yeah, in retrospect that's not the best way to make a point, but it's a direct reaction to Mayor Curley's "This place is crawling with people who can still feel the snap of wet towels from high school 15 years ago." which is more or less stating "You don't like football? You must be a total wimp. Inathletic, nerdly, lacking maniless. Only pansies hate football." and is a nice example of the violence+sadism+homophobia+repressed homosexual yearnings I'm railing against and illustrating. What? Snapping a towel at someone's bare ass is not repressed homosexual urges? How do you figure? Poorly?

Not everyone that dislikes football is a wimp, or gay, or the bottom end of the chimpanzee politics pile, or the bottom end of anything.

Note that my comment in the thread in question is non-sensical and not directly attacking football.

Regardless... this kind of sportsnewsfilter, this is the best of the web? Is it even the best of broadcast TV or mainstream media? It's not.
posted by loquacious at 11:50 AM on April 29, 2006


I shall bear loquacious' children.
posted by ereshkigal45 at 11:53 AM on April 29, 2006


Yup.
posted by cribcage at 12:10 PM on April 29, 2006


I dunno loquacious, I think you should drop the homosexual thing. It's not homoerotic any time men break a sweat near each other. Insisting it is comes across to me as insulting to men of all sexual orientations.
posted by scarabic at 12:21 PM on April 29, 2006


I've seen Nation of Islam-KKK meetings with less bigotry than this thread.

Can't we all get along here?

I'm a nerd/geek/spazz and I like sports. Hell, I spend my down time reading sabermetrics books. And I know some jocks who hate sports.

Broadbrush stereotypes like this do nothing but send MeFi down the road to Hell^H^H^H^HUsenet.
posted by dw at 12:23 PM on April 29, 2006


DOMINO motherfucker.

Y'all are both crazy. I'm gonna go to my car. Get my other gun. Shoot everybody.

Fuck. It's football. It's men in fucking tights hopped up on steriods running around a fake grass field, grabbing ass on and off field and getting paid way too much for it.

Fair. But re: they're overpaid, if anything, I think they're underpaid. Consider for a moment the average audeince these guys draw. Consider the insane amounts of value they create. I mean, they generate quite literally billions of dollars in equity and see maybe, what, a couple points of it? Add in your standard 25% hazard pay, and I personally feel they deserve more than the about $1M salary mean. The median is even lower.

It's war simulcra. It's violence-lust barely sublimated into homoeroticism for those who can't handle the merest whisper of same-sex affection, but desire it so strong it tears at their very souls.


Fair, again. But then I think that's why lots of people (including me) like it. I think its a really healthy outlet for the aggresive and competitive tendencies its hard to deny are present in society. Lots of people like watching some good, visceral pain. Its important to have outlets for anger, frustration, aggresion, and the desire to compete. I mean, you've never watched a war movie? You've never read a book about pirates? Some people hunt, some people get into fights, some yell at their spouses, some people even hit their kids. At least with football, nobody actually gets hurt.

Yes its drama. Yes its a glorified soap opera. Yes its meaningless. Yes its thinly veiled and poorly disguised war. Yes it glorifies aggresion, competition, and violence. And for all those reasons and more, I love football. Do some people take it way too seriously? Do alot of people not approach football with nearly as critical eye as is called for? Sure, but that's true for every other hobby there is.

I really feel like alot of people around here hate on people who act superior because they believe in god or like sports. I feel like the do this so they, in turn, can feel superior. This is totally human and natural, but just please realize that you're doing it when you do it.
posted by ChasFile at 12:37 PM on April 29, 2006


I thought that SportsFilter was the MetaFilter spin-off for these kinds of posts.

NFL Draft news on MetaFilter just feels like a pair of pants three sizes too small.
posted by sic at 12:43 PM on April 29, 2006


I've said it before and I'll say it again: sports fandom is one of the nerdiest pursuits there is. It involves men in colorful costumes, obsession over statistics, and fierce loyalty to one's chosen tribe, and fucking trading cards, for pete's sake. C'mon, what could be geekier?

(although, I do find it annoying when Americans who wouldn't be caught dead at a Mets or Steelers game get all enthused about soccer or rugby, that always struck me as the worst kind of faux-Euro posing. Real Euros, rock on with your bad selves)
posted by jonmc at 12:44 PM on April 29, 2006


By the way here's the SportsFilter version of the thread. If yr interested.
posted by sic at 12:45 PM on April 29, 2006


Also, sports trading cards are incredibly cool. Most of what I know about geography and math I learned from being an obssessive card collector as a kid. I always wanted to make a business card that looked like an '83 Topps card with my employment histtory on the back in place of statistics.
posted by jonmc at 12:49 PM on April 29, 2006


Metafilter: crawling with people who can still feel the snap of wet towels from high school
posted by mr_crash_davis at 12:52 PM on April 29, 2006


Football is nothing more than ritualized buggery

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

This is not especially relevant, but the Mets are on top of the division after a whole month! Hoo-eee!
posted by languagehat at 12:56 PM on April 29, 2006


LET'S GO METS!
posted by jonmc at 12:57 PM on April 29, 2006


Eh, I think playing sports can be fun, but the whole sports mania thing just irritates me, the way people go crazy about that crap.
posted by delmoi at 1:15 PM on April 29, 2006


OMG LOOK AT ALL THESE PEOPLE DISSING CRUSE SHIPS. That thread should be for people posting vacation pics of their tykes on a cruse ships, instead we get a mob of snarky land-lubbers!
posted by delmoi at 1:19 PM on April 29, 2006


Eh, I think playing sports can be fun, but the whole sports mania thing just irritates me, the way people go crazy about that crap.

As opposed to Deadheads, Trekkies, video games or any other kind of fandom? Dude, everyubody's a geek for something.
posted by jonmc at 1:21 PM on April 29, 2006


I think most folks are just cranky 'cause they thought the FPP would give them an opportunity to tell everyone how much they hate Dubya.
'Cause, y'know, how often do they get a chance to do that on MeFi?

SportsNewsYouTubeFilter, and a good, interesting FPP.

Disclosure: I am not cool, and haven't played sports since my stunning turn as "Handicap"* in high school basketball intramurals. Don't follow sports either, but I really enjoy listening to people discuss them.

*All the good players wanted to be on the same team, and so they'd have to take me and my squeaky dress shoes as 'balance'. MVP? I'd say so.

posted by Alvy Ampersand at 1:46 PM on April 29, 2006


People that dis cruise ships are all closet homos. Ships are nothing more than big, hard vessels that convey seamen, disseminating them at every open port they dock in.
posted by Falconetti at 1:57 PM on April 29, 2006


posted by jonmc As opposed to Deadheads, Trekkies, video games or any other kind of fandom? Dude, everyubody's a geek for something.

Well, sure, but Deadheads and Trekkies don't beat up non-Deadheads and non-Trekkies for not being team players.

posted by dw I've seen Nation of Islam-KKK meetings with less bigotry than this thread. Can't we all get along here?

Boohoo. Maybe we could all get along, if jocks stopped picking on non-jocks.
posted by fandango_matt at 2:09 PM on April 29, 2006


jonmc, I like the Steelers and the Orioles and am way excited for the World Cup this summer and blew out one of my knees playing rugby in college. Go figure.

That said, fandango_matt, I think you're being facetious, but I'll respond to your bizarre logic re: sports is a subset of news. What subject isn't, honestly? I don't think it was a sterling post (there are compelling stories in addition to Bush's), but what's the Platonic ideal for a mefi FPP, in your honest opinion? Until you can answer that question, just lay off threads you feel like crapping in rather than contributing to.
posted by bardic at 2:13 PM on April 29, 2006


Sounds like loquacious was a non-jock picking on the jocks, if you ask me. Maybe if some of the non-jocks could get over the stereotypical view that all athletes and sports fans are no-neck meatheads, we'd be getting somewhere.

Now those NASCAR fans, that's a different story...
posted by monju_bosatsu at 2:13 PM on April 29, 2006


(And the "take it to spofi" argument is also weak. "Hey, Techie McNerderson, take it to slashdot!)
posted by bardic at 2:21 PM on April 29, 2006


Fandango_matt, it sounds like you have a bit of a grudge against your cliche jock. You need to realize that not everyone who likes or participates in sports is going to be that person. I play rugby with my school, but also major in physics and work part-time as a Unix admin.

To many people, such as myself, a sport is just another hobby. You are allowed to dislike sports for whatever reason, but railing against those who do enjoy them is pointless, and quite frankly, immature.
posted by Loto at 2:27 PM on April 29, 2006


Sounds like loquacious was a non-jock picking on the jocks, if you ask me.

Nah. I had a bunch of friends that were Varsity or otherwise lettered football players and wrestlers, many of which were also outright braniacs. I'm not quite so simplistic as that.

Bullies, on the other hand, I had issues with - be they jock, sporto, surfers, straight-edgers, nazi punks or whatever.
posted by loquacious at 3:42 PM on April 29, 2006


JD Football season is over, Veronica. Kurt and Ram had nothing to offer this school but date rapes and AIDS jokes.

VERONICA Sure... (looking at her burnt hand) Could we make an ice run before the funeral?

In church. Kurt and Ram are lying in their open casket both wearing football helmets and holding footballs in their dead arms. KURT'S DAD is standing next to his son's casket, talking.

KURT'S DAD If there's any way you can hear me, Kurt buddy... I don't care that you really were some pansy... You're my own flesh and blood, and you made me proud. (to mourners) My son's a homosexual, and I love him! I love my dead gay son!
posted by bardic at 3:54 PM on April 29, 2006


Sportsfilter != Newsfilter. This would be like shouting down a post about something new in another field of interest as newsfilter. Arts, science, etc.; anything new would be Newsfilter and not a good post.

Sportsfilter exists not as a solution to the problem of infecting the pure blood of Metafilter with sports, but as a workaround to all you douches that worry about thread derails unless the thread is about the group you hated in high school.

Unless you're not from the US.
posted by yerfatma at 3:56 PM on April 29, 2006


"...those NASCAR fans, that's a different story..."

Get a brain, moran.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 4:00 PM on April 29, 2006


I lurve Nasker. You gotta admire a racing event where the cars are specifically designed to make contact with one another. Formula one and Indiecar can suck it (I'd love to see Danica switch to real racing. And to return my creepy-obsessive fan emails.)
posted by bardic at 4:06 PM on April 29, 2006


How many American football posts does MetaFilter have? It has few American football posts than it does soccer posts, which is fairly remarkable? The point isn't about defending football, the point is just shutting TFU for a moment while those people that doo like American football have a moment.

The jock/nerd dichotemy is bullshit, and I don't see what anyone's high school experience has to do with it. American football actually has plenty of strategy for nerds to get into if they can get past the jock thing for a moment.
posted by nthdegx at 4:38 PM on April 29, 2006


Noam Chomsky discusses Sports.
posted by Rash at 4:44 PM on April 29, 2006


You gotta admire a racing event where the cars are specifically designed to make contact with one another.

Uh, no you don't. Driving in a circle != skill.
posted by delmoi at 5:06 PM on April 29, 2006


Yes, people who don't like sports are most definitely much cooler and certainly far more sophisticated and charming than the over-hormoned boneheads who do. This is well understood. So? What's this post for? Bitching about the sporting subspecies working themselves up into an FPP frenzy about - oh, whatever ball-hurling, cleat-stomping nonsense it is this time - is unworthy of you. As members of the superior, sport-spurning segment of the species, let's try to rise above it and treat these exciteable little monkeys with the sneering disdain they deserve, shall we? That's a good fellow.
posted by Decani at 5:08 PM on April 29, 2006


Boohoo. Maybe we could all get along, if jocks stopped picking on non-jocks.

Geez. What a bully.
posted by dw at 5:22 PM on April 29, 2006


I love to go to baseball games, as does DeLillo and Murakami.
posted by Mean Mr. Bucket at 5:22 PM on April 29, 2006


Behold, the great Chomsky in manner most disjointed proclaimed all manner of diversion a way to "indoctrinate" "Joe Six Pack" in "irrational jingoism." And yea verily, sports fans everywhere gave not a shit.

Seriously, OK, Chomsky's a smart guy, that's a given. I won't go so far as to say that this is like Dick Vitale speculating about theoretical linguistics. He's made himself into enough of a cultural pundit to deserve an audience. But the transcript of that speech is creepy: The audience laughs and roars along as he mistakes side effect for malicious intent, and insults all of sports-watching USA. It smacks of the cultural elitism the smarty-pants left is always accused of.

Am I the only one who thinks everyone in the States should read the New Yorker and watch the Super Bowl?
posted by donpedro at 5:27 PM on April 29, 2006


Bucket: Spike Lee (Knicks) and George Will (Red Sox) are also big fans, to name two more knuckle-dragging simpletons.
posted by donpedro at 5:30 PM on April 29, 2006


Delmoi— When you can drive in a circle at over 200 miles per hour, then you'll be able to condescend. Having taken a Corvette through a Formula 1 course, I got a lot more appreciation for just how hard it is to take a turn really really fast.

And most of the anti-sports schtick here just sounds like lines that got appreciative smirks from angsty asthmatics in high school, and have been trotted out every time an opinion was needed from then on. U R SO KEWL 2 NOT LIKE SPORTS! U MUST MAKE $1MILLION DOLLARS A DAY AT YOUR INTERNETS JOB!
posted by klangklangston at 5:31 PM on April 29, 2006


posted by bardic I'll respond to your bizarre logic re: sports is a subset of news.

Maybe you should explain why sports have their own sections in newspapers and news programs.

what's the Platonic ideal for a mefi FPP, in your honest opinion?

I thought the "Unembedded" photos from Iraq made for an excellent FPP.

Until you can answer that question, just lay off threads you feel like crapping in rather than contributing to.

I didn't post in the sports FPP.

posted by Loto You are allowed to dislike sports for whatever reason, but railing against those who do enjoy them is pointless, and quite frankly, immature.

I'm not railing against people who enjoy sports; I'm not even saying liking sports is wrong or bad. I'm saying it's kind of homoerotic, and perverted.
posted by fandango_matt at 7:18 PM on April 29, 2006


I'm not railing against people who enjoy sports; I'm not even saying liking sports is wrong or bad. I'm saying it's kind of homoerotic, and perverted.

In other words, "There's nothing wrong with sports fans; they're just perverted f*gs."
posted by dw at 7:33 PM on April 29, 2006


How is sport homoerotic in and of itself? And perverted how? Or do you just mean that perversion is part-and-parcel of homoeroticism?
posted by yerfatma at 7:33 PM on April 29, 2006


What is so homoerotic about being lifted into the air on a line-out by my ass?

Well, okay... at least I'm not pitching a tent over it.

I still don't get why you think it is perverted, however. Are males reglegated to hand shakes and the "hug/hit" combo, for fear of being considered gay and a pervert?
posted by Loto at 7:34 PM on April 29, 2006


Graaagh! The thought of hands on my ass caused me to mistype relegated.
posted by Loto at 7:36 PM on April 29, 2006


I don't like shaking hands, 'cause if I've rubbed one out and the dude's done the laundry by hand even once at some point in our lives, it's kinda like we're rubbing our wangs together, y'know?

Jeez louise.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 7:41 PM on April 29, 2006


I've already said what I think is homoerotic about football; I don't have the time to write an essay detailing the homosexual overtones inherent in football (as well as many other sports) but I will suggest you read Interpreting Folklore by Alan Dundes.
posted by fandango_matt at 7:43 PM on April 29, 2006


I don't have the time to write an essay detailing the homosexual overtones inherent in football

I think most of us can figure them out. It's been the material of many a comic over the last 50 years.

But then you conflate that into making this back-door (pun intended) blanket statement implying that anyone into sports is into homosexuality and perversion.

Your answer to "jocks picking on non-jocks" is to belittle others to make yourself feel better.p

A great definition of a bully, honestly.
posted by dw at 7:52 PM on April 29, 2006


I'm not railing against people who enjoy sports; I'm not even saying liking sports is wrong or bad. I'm saying it's kind of homoerotic, and perverted. just trolling; anyone hungry to take my bait?
posted by fandango_matt 41 minutes ago

posted by caddis at 8:05 PM on April 29, 2006


I agree generally with insomnus's callout. Unfortunately the post itself hugely sucked so it is, or should be, a moot point.

"...but I'll respond to your bizarre logic re: sports is a subset of news. What subject isn't, honestly?"

Oh, lots of things. But why don't I explain what news is, instead? "News" is information that is interesting because it's...wait for it...new. Its value is retained for only days, hours, or even minutes and seconds. A "best of the web" post can retain its value for years. That's why stuff gets posted repeatedly, it's why there's discussions here on MeTa about what the statute of limitations is concernings dupes.

Imagine this post: "People are placing their cats on image scanners and creating 'catscans' and posting them to the Internet". Is that an interesting post? Not so much as otherwise if you're already familiar with it, but some of the pleasure of seeing those photos would still be repeatable.

Now imagine this post: "08-29-05: Hurricane Katrina brushes by New Orleans, Levee Breaks". Would you follow that link today? Would you wonder why the hell it was posted? Even though MetaFilter discourages news posts, that was a big story interesting to many people. Would a repost of that story be interesting today? Would people find the threads of these old news posts interesting? Yes. Discussions are interesting, active and recorded ones. But discussion is not a sufficient justification for a post.

The newsfilter / best-of-the-web-filter just isn't that complicated or mysterious. News is very, very rarely the "best of the web" and one handy litmus test for that is if the linked page itself will be as interesting a year from now as it is today.

So what worth have the reports of the NFL draft, or the scores of the third game of the baseball World Series one year later? There are posts that have as their subject "sports" and are the best of the web. However, sports posts that are news posts are not among them. This is not rocket science.

"Driving in a circle != skill"

On the contrary, it is exemplary of a "skill". That's why there are "driving schools". Furthermore, "driving in a circle" in the context of motorcar racing is a very rarified skill. Otherwise the distribution of winners among contestants would be random, but it's not. Otherwise anyone that can drive a passenger car in a circle could compete and win, but they can't. You don't have to know anything about auto racing other than the basics and a bit of physics and biology to see that it necessarily is very much a physical skill.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 8:37 PM on April 29, 2006


So I won't want to read a post about the 2006 NFL draft a year from now. So what? I do want to read it today. Even assuming that the "best-of-the-web" standard was not deprecated, I'm not sure why timeliness, or lack thereof, is a relevant part of that standard.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 8:49 PM on April 29, 2006


"driving in a circle" in the context of motorcar racing is a very rarified skill. Otherwise the distribution of winners among contestants would be random, but it's not.

While I agree with your general point, I'd point out that the skill of the driver may be less important than the skill of the personnel who design, tune, and service the vehicle, and that the distribution of winners might look a little more random if more than 1/1000th of the US population actually got to try its hand at competitive driving. Curling skill is "rarefied," as well, but I don't think curlers have a whole lot of room to boast.

And taking the same two left turns all fucking day is just about the lamest possible display of skill.
posted by Kwantsar at 9:00 PM on April 29, 2006


"And taking the same two left turns all fucking day is just about the lamest possible display of skill."

Honestly? When I was a kid I thought the same kind of thing about oval racing. I'm from Albuquerque, my dad did some racing, was friends in high school with Rick Galles, and I think everybody but me in my family has met/knows the Unsers. Even so, when I was, say, 10 or so I thought oval racing was pretty boring.

But putting aside your very, very true point about how important teams and crews are (all of which are certainly not unskilled), when I really began to understand what was really going on something that looked extremely simple became much, much, much more complicated. And there is physical skill—at those speeds and those distances between cars, a driver has to have extremely fast reaction times and an amazingly sensitive sense of space around the car at absurdly high speed. It's actually physically punishing to drive those cars like that for as long as they do, these aren't Lincoln Town Cars.

Finally, although I've never really raced, I'm not a bad driver myself. Remember those "Malibu Grand Prix" mini racecars and tracks? Those weren't go-carts, they were Wankel engined, expensive little things that could hit 72mph. Not that you did on their tracks. Anyway, back in the day, I'd do that whenever I had the money and I'd usually get a time that was among the best of the month. (Really, I'm getting to a point.) But my dad would just blow everyone else's times out of the water. And he and I would always race against each other on one of those go-cart tracks when we came across one when traveling. He'd always insist on giving me the choice of carts and then give me an automatic 10 cart length head start. And, you know, I thought I could see the line and hold it pretty well, but no matter what, even in a slower cart, my dad would always, mysteriously, catch up to me and then pass me. Always. And that made an impression on me because I knew that I was doing many things right—but he outdrove me in ways I couldn't quite understand but made a huge difference.

Yeah, those were little road course type tracks. But in some ways an oval is harder rather than easier because it's like a distillation leaving only the most subtle things.

Having said that, I'm still a bit of an open-wheel snob—I like Indycar-type oval racing and I like F1 but have never been that terribly interested in NASCAR. Which I figure is just pure snobbery on my part.

As an aside, I really regret not finding a way to race when I was younger. What I'd really like to have done, or do, is rally racing. I wonder why it's more popular in Europe than the US.

monju_bosatsu: there's a lot of things I want to read about today that I don't expect to find on metafilter. I think my test for BotW is helpful because there is a qualitative difference between "news" and other sorts of things, news doesn't have lasting value like one of matteo's posts or even the post about the guy with his dream-hole in his backyard. And while there's a seeming infinite number of sources for news on the web, in comparison there's hardly any sources for the kinds of things that people really like to discover in a metafilter post.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 10:58 PM on April 29, 2006


Heh, I love how people who didn't like the FPP feel the need to proffer their sports chops in this thread.

Mostly, I just really want to say "Sports Chops". heh.
posted by delmoi at 12:16 AM on April 30, 2006


Delmoi— When you can drive in a circle at over 200 miles per hour, then you'll be able to condescend. Having taken a Corvette through a Formula 1 course, I got a lot more appreciation for just how hard it is to take a turn really really fast.

Eh, I do OK in Gran Toursimo, something like 99.9% complete in GT3, I don't know how that translates into the real world, but GT has a couple tracks that are NASCAR like and they are far, far easier then the convoluted tracks (such as the F1 track you would have driven on). If I say arithmetic is easy, and you say differential equations are difficult, it doesn't really disprove what I said initially.

Anyway, it may be difficult with respect to passing and such, but come on. The only thing that makes it interesting to watch is the wreaks, and you might as well just watch a demolition derby, or a figure-8 race if that's what you want to see.

Just to clarify, I when I said "driving in a circle", I did not mean driving in a non-circular circuit (while nascar tracks are not specifically circular, they are much closer to boring circles then most Indy car tracks, as far as I know) the poster I responded to made the claim that Nascar required more skill or something then F1 or Indy car racing.
posted by delmoi at 12:25 AM on April 30, 2006


Yes, Nasker is a bunch of rednecks making a left turn for three hours. Yes, American foosball is homoerotic and perverted.

How is this not (potentially) the stuff of great FPP's? And if they're mediocre posts, well, just ignore.
posted by bardic at 2:05 AM on April 30, 2006


(Talladega tomorrow baby, w00t!)
posted by bardic at 2:07 AM on April 30, 2006


Behold, the great Chomsky in manner most disjointed proclaimed all manner of diversion a way to "indoctrinate" "Joe Six Pack" in "irrational jingoism." And yea verily, sports fans everywhere gave not a shit.

Because putting his points in "scare quotes" and pointing out that people who don't read him aren't interested in what he's saying sure puts ol' Noam in his place.

That transcript would've been much better without the stupid [audience roars] stuff, but your critique is silly.
posted by ludwig_van at 5:10 AM on April 30, 2006


"I'm saying it's kind of homoerotic, and perverted."

Dude, just because looking at another man's ass gives you a hard on doesn't mean the rest of us can't enjoy a game without thinking about sodomy.

"Eh, I do OK in Gran Toursimo, something like 99.9% complete in GT3, I don't know how that translates into the real world, but GT has a couple tracks that are NASCAR like and they are far, far easier then the convoluted tracks (such as the F1 track you would have driven on). If I say arithmetic is easy, and you say differential equations are difficult, it doesn't really disprove what I said initially."

GT translates to driving about as well as jerking off does to sex. The difference, and the one reason that I never really liked driving games (or have been particularly good at them) is that there's so much more resistance in a turn than you'd think. Seriously, turning gets HARD when you're going really fast. It's hard on your body. The momentum enough will leave your arms sore like you've been working out. Doing it at exactly the right time and while managing a stick shift is tough. And I don't think Bardic was arguing that it was harder than F1, just that he liked the Nasker more. Having noticed that a rather easy turn becomes challenging around 100mph, and noting that they turn about over 200mph, I think it's significantly different from just driving in circles.
posted by klangklangston at 7:06 AM on April 30, 2006


Football is actually really easy too; I totally won the Super Bowl playing NFL Blitz on my PS2.

I am also confident that I would be very good at defeating minions and, ultimately, bosses using a sword and/or spells if the opportunity presented itself.
posted by brain_drain at 10:10 AM on April 30, 2006


In Defense of Football.
posted by weston at 10:17 AM on April 30, 2006


Because putting his points in "scare quotes" and pointing out that people who don't read him aren't interested in what he's saying sure puts ol' Noam in his place.

That transcript would've been much better without the stupid [audience roars] stuff, but your critique is silly.


You've misread me, sir. They weren't "scare quotes," but rather quote-quotes. That is, I was using Chomsky's own words to summarize what I take to be the thrust of his argument. And I said sports fans would not give a shit, not "people who don't read him."

As for my critique, well, maybe we just have to agree to disagree. As I said, he's a smart man. But while I agree that people in general, and Americans in particular, ought to pay more attention to things of great import, I reject wholesale his contention that sports and other manner of mindless diversion/entertainment are inherently bad. And I insist that to my ear, the transcript of that speech smacks of ugly cultural elitism: The dean of the intellectuals preaching to the choir, essentially congratulating them and validating their sense of their own cultural superiority.
posted by donpedro at 10:37 AM on April 30, 2006


donpedro, it was silly because that surely wasn't the whole speech. It was the part where he laid out a thesis, and I assume there's also a part where he defends it. As such, it doesn't mean much to say things like "sports fans won't give a shit." Fundamentalist Christians don't give a shit that there's evidence for evolution, but that doesn't change the facts.

I don't think there was necessarily anything ugly or elitist in that snippet; it was completely out of context, but it seemed like a fair enough observation about a cultural phenomenon.

Your response just ounded to me like anti-intellctualism combined with a bit of the well-described-by-dgaicun disease of middle-groundism.

Which is to say, no, I don't think there is anything to be gained by making everyone read The New Yorker and watch the Super Bowl, or that those are somehow forces in opposition.
posted by ludwig_van at 10:53 AM on April 30, 2006


There may well have been more to the speech. But I can only react to what I read, and I found his argument silly and paternalistic. If there's a more nuanced version out there somewhere I would likely react differently. Chomsky even says in the transcript that he's oversimplifying, I suppose I should have given him credit for that.

It's also probably only fair that I provide an example of what I disliked about it:

You know, I remember in high school, already I was pretty old. I suddenly asked myself at one point, why do I care if my high school team wins the football game? [laugbter] I mean, I don't know anybody on the team, you know? [audience roars]

Let's look at this: Here he equates his newfound disinterest with maturity, suggesting by implication that anyone who cares about sports just needs to grow up. This is only one example of a preachy, self-important tone that, to my ear, is present throughout in his comments and the audience's reaction.

Please take me at my word when I say I'm no anti-intellectual. And while I do believe that seeking consensus is generally a good thing, I don't think I suffer from middle-groundism as described by dgaicun. A lie is a lie is a lie is a lie -- agreed. I am against self-congratulatory intellectualism that belittles popular culture and those who consume it, but I in no way think that is endemic among intellectuals, merely a disease some suffer that has the effect of making people suspicious of all of them (us).

As for what people should read or watch, well, I certainly have no grounds for proscribing others' taste. Personally I find it enriching to try to be well versed in both high and low culture. But people like what they like, end of story. Me, I enjoy the symphony but find ballet dreadfully tedious. I like football, but prefer the college game over the NFL by a wide margin. In a sense my interest in Reggie Bush likely ended the day he got drafted. I also find Nascar soul-numbingly boring. But I don't go around wearing that like a badge of honor.
posted by donpedro at 11:54 AM on April 30, 2006


... Nor have you, at least not that I've seen, and I'm not leveling that accusation at you, sehr geehrter Herr Ludwig.
posted by donpedro at 12:00 PM on April 30, 2006


Fair enough, amigo.
posted by ludwig_van at 1:56 PM on April 30, 2006


I never claimed GT was comparable to real driving, only that circular NASCAR courses are much easier in the game then real racetracks.
posted by delmoi at 3:12 PM on April 30, 2006


MetaFilter: The audience laughs and roars along as he mistakes side effect for malicious intent
posted by scarabic at 3:17 PM on April 30, 2006


Well there's a second MetaFilter rite of passage out of the way, courtesy scarabic. (Early in my tenure, I was zinged by the infamous q.) I think all that's missing is for someone to haul my ass into the grey and tell me to STFU.
posted by donpedro at 3:35 PM on April 30, 2006


donpedro : "I think all that's missing is for someone to haul my ass into the grey and tell me to STFU."

[Dangles carrot in front of donpedro's donkey]
posted by Bugbread at 3:37 PM on April 30, 2006


Hee-haw! [brays effusively]
posted by donpedro at 4:05 PM on April 30, 2006


Well, damn, I didn't know making an FPP about the NFL draft would be so controversial or offensive. The NFL is kind of a big deal these days and there seems to be a lot of talk about this draft not just on sports news but regular news as well. Hmmm... I thought some people would be interested. My bad.
posted by b_thinky at 4:21 PM on April 30, 2006


Ok, now stow the feigned unrepentence, and you're all done.
posted by Bugbread at 4:22 PM on April 30, 2006


You have now had your ass dragged to the grey and told to STFU.
posted by Bugbread at 4:36 PM on April 30, 2006


NASCAR, boring as you or I may find it, is not an easy sport. You're locked inside of an inferno for hours driving at lethal speeds with a bunch of assholes tailgaiting you and trying to cut you off. As a sport, I find it almost painfully boring, but I don't doubt for a moment the skills of the guys behind the wheel.

What I'd really like to have done, or do, is rally racing. I wonder why it's more popular in Europe than the US.

I'm with you: now that's some racing! Cars getting 5 feet of air, sliding around wet country asphault trying to keep the rubber from going off the side of a cliff... yeah, man. Fun stuff. It's slowly gaining favor in the U.S., but as with all things car-related, it has to start with the fans and work its way up to get any "professional" attention.

A co-worker of mine raced a couple of weeks ago in upstate New York. They closed off about a hundred miles of back-country roads near Monticello. As usual, the WRX's and Evo's were at the top of the pack. Which is another nice thing about rally racing: besides the cost of replacing suspension parts every couple races (or just revalving the shocks), it's actually possible for "regular" people with regular cars to join in. That's my biggest gripe with NASCAR racing. At least with F1, there's no illusion that you can actually buy the car. But with NASCAR, those cars (at least in theory) are supposed to be stock production vehicles. I know I just love's me some drivin' 'round town in my roll cage and sheet metal.

And in their unrepentent desire to try and keep the playing field even (restrictor plates, body design reqs., etc.) NASCAR is essentially forcing boringness on the sport. Of course, I'm a car lover more than a good-driver-appreciator, so I'd say that. :)
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 4:44 PM on April 30, 2006


Before I go back and read the whole thread, I'd just like to say that I never played sports. I'm a small, fragile computer geek. I still like to talk about some sports. I wrote a bunch of stuff on that thread. If you don't like it, why not go elsewhere? I don't post a MeTa thread about every thread that I don't find absolutely enthralling. Christ.
posted by spiderwire at 11:05 PM on April 30, 2006



posted by jacalata at 11:40 PM on April 30, 2006


ummm.. damn filtering of html tags! > < br> (waiting for spiderwire to read the thread and realise it was posted in response to people who didn't like the original sports thread and wouldn't go elsewhere)
posted by jacalata at 11:41 PM on April 30, 2006


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