Hysterics | MetaTalk

Pretty much all attempts to come up with a wherefor for fetishes are doomed to inanity. Why do some people get off on shoes? Do they think that if they lick the shoes, the shoes will fuck them?

People who are exhibitionists enjoy it because it's moderately transgressive and fairly simply accomplished. I'd wager there's very little thinking "Now we will teh sexxorz!" and a lot more "Woo! Got my dick out!"

If you want to tie it all up in complicated power structures and gender roles, you probably can without straining a critical theory muscle, but I have very little confidence in the amount of examination that any fetish can support when faced with reality.
posted by klangklangston at 1:29 PM on November 15, 2007 [4 favorites]

but I'll settle for dickish.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 1:29 PM on November 15, 2007

Okay, whatever. I'm SO not sexist. I love me some men, my friend.
posted by miss lynnster at 1:29 PM on November 15, 2007

Also: when I was 14 my friend Mike and I were standing outside Arizona Video and heard someone yell "Hey boys!!" We looked up to see a biker on a Harley going past, and the she-biker attached to the rear of it pulled up her T-shirt and gave us both cannons. Everyone involved seem to think it was pretty rad.
posted by hermitosis at 1:29 PM on November 15, 2007 [2 favorites]

Damn. I felt certain we were just minutes away from a celebrity flash story.
posted by stinkycheese at 1:30 PM on November 15, 2007

Also, whenever someone hears about flashers, does anyone else think of Dave Attell?
posted by Stynxno at 1:30 PM on November 15, 2007

If you want to tie it all up in complicated power structures and gender roles...

You could break out a subversion of the Male Gaze's social primacy as the fulcrum of this kink. Makes me feel sort of supportive of it, actually.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 1:31 PM on November 15, 2007

I am the Master of My Domain. But, I keep my privates private!
posted by ericb at 1:31 PM on November 15, 2007

This is a terrible deletion, mathowie. You've killed one of the more interesting posts of the month so far. An email suggesting you have a word with yourself, and if that doesn't work, you might have to consider firing yourself would be pointless now, wouldn't it?

Little did I imagine, when Jessamyn made that crack about a 'tepid wonderland', that she was articulating an emerging guideline for moderation here.
posted by jamjam at 1:35 PM on November 15, 2007 [4 favorites]

In light of four panels' first comment in the original thread...

why is this FPP material?
Because it is like manna from Heaven for the toolbelt manhaters that roam Metafilter with a fried chicken leg in one hand and Camila Paglia's panties in the other.
More succinctly, it massages their prejudices.

...it's quite clear that he can NOT "take a bit of sexism", but he sure as fuck can dish it out.

Or to quote his second comment:

Yeah, men are ogres.
Now bend over.

Too bad matt let one machoboy spoilsport ruin it for everybody. Worst deletion of the month IMO (although miss lynnster's over-the-top later comment did hurt the thread - if only by being borderline self-modding).
posted by wendell at 1:36 PM on November 15, 2007 [6 favorites]

Lies! I got wooted at once by two women in a convertible when I was on my bike!

Hah, me too! They even stopped so I could pass them and they could pass me again. Great day. It's also happened to me when I was running. Anecdotes aren't data, of course, but they are when the initial assertion itself is at the level of anecdote.
posted by OmieWise at 1:36 PM on November 15, 2007

I love everything lynnster does here (just added her as a contact actually, now that that means something tangible) but that was a really bad post. Seems like something she's too close to and affected by to have realized just how bad of a post it was. I guess even Hank Aaron has to strike out some time.
posted by Terminal Verbosity at 1:36 PM on November 15, 2007

"You could break out a subversion of the Male Gaze's social primacy as the fulcrum of this kink. Makes me feel sort of supportive of it, actually."

Yeah, that's what I was thinking of. But you could go the other way in arguing that it's about the power to control what women see and inflicting unwanted sexualization (which'd also be an easy tie to Male Gaze) without too much work. Or go on about the abstraction of the women as Women.

The real problem is that the primary sources are going to be impossible to rely upon—even the most self-examining exhibitionist can't be speaking for everyone, and most of the folks I've talked to rarely get beyond "It's hot" when trying to explain what turns them on.

I dunno. I'd imagine that a fair amount of scholarship has been done, but I'd bet it's of dubious predictive value.
posted by klangklangston at 1:36 PM on November 15, 2007

Worst deletion of the month IMO

It was a one-link post to a GYOFB-worthy rant on Craigslist. Let's not shed any tears.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 1:37 PM on November 15, 2007 [2 favorites]

"Okay, whatever. I'm SO not sexist. I love me some men, my friend."

Heh.
posted by klangklangston at 1:37 PM on November 15, 2007

And yet the ape rape post remains!
posted by thehmsbeagle at 1:38 PM on November 15, 2007 [1 favorite]

Yeah, men are ogres.
Now bend over.

toolbelt manhaters that roam Metafilter with a fried chicken leg in one hand and Camila Paglia's panties in the other

I can take a bit of sexism, but this is really overboard.
posted by box at 1:40 PM on November 15, 2007 [2 favorites]

You could break out a subversion of the Male Gaze's social primacy as the fulcrum of this kink.

The homology between "I" and "Eye" has often been noted, the self and the gaze standing in for one another in a mutually (re)[e/i]nforcing fashion. Less appreciated, however, is the third term, which goes beyond ego and speculation. "Ei" in German means "egg", in the feminine, a latent and internal element of fertility which makes itself known only in its passage from the body, whether menstrual or gestational. But "Ei" in its masculine metastasis is also "testicle" an external, fecund element. This triad "I/Eye/Ei" helps us to make sense, I think, of the offense at the root of male self-exposure, since it overemphasizes the already external. The reiteration of masculine externality is pathetic. An over-extension which implies defect. In its feminine modality, however, this triad is the revelation of a latent third term, the internal "Ei" is invisible, yearned for and yet impossible to touch in a direct sense.

/mid-90's gender-theoretical bullshit
posted by felix betachat at 1:40 PM on November 15, 2007 [5 favorites]

I got wooted at once by two women in a convertible when I was on my bike!

I got wooted at once by a bunch of guys in a pickup truck. My hair was flapping alluringly in the wind from behind, I guess.

They stopped wooting once they caught up with me.

(I can't access craigslist from work, go figure, so it didn't seem fair to axe the post on supposition.)
posted by cortex at 1:40 PM on November 15, 2007 [3 favorites]

As a man, I've always wondered what men were thinking even when they just whistle or w00t out the car window at women. Women never do these sorts of things.

that's because you're not good looking enough - sorry
posted by pyramid termite at 1:40 PM on November 15, 2007 [1 favorite]

toolbelt manhaters that roam Metafilter with a fried chicken leg in one hand and Camila Paglia's panties in the other

He forgot left-handed.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 1:43 PM on November 15, 2007

But you could go the other way in arguing that it's about the power to control what women see and inflicting unwanted sexualization

I don't believe in the existence of "inflicted sexualization" per se. Though, I'd never let my imagination run rampant with the thought of some freak desiring to confine what a woman sees to 100% moneyshots a la A Clockwork Orange... ew and gross. Paging Takashi Miike.

"women as Women" is probably at play in these cases, but that's a relief to me. I'd rather be flashed impersonally, if I had to choose.

Yeah, I think this deletion was reasonable, but the thread was doing okay. I'll miss it for a sec.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 1:44 PM on November 15, 2007

that's because you're not good looking enough - sorry

Good point.
posted by M.C. Lo-Carb! at 1:44 PM on November 15, 2007

four panels has said some other nasty, sexist or otherwise demeaning stuff in the past, that he's probably excuse as dark humor, but I don't want to go digging for turds at the moment.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 1:46 PM on November 15, 2007 [2 favorites]

that's because you're not good looking enough - sorry

Oh, that I were only good looking enough to be sexually harrased by random strangers in public settings! ::wishes and hopes::
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 1:47 PM on November 15, 2007 [1 favorite]

I'd say this was a crap deletion -- first interesting thread in at least a week, I'm sorry to say, and some seriously shit posts have hung in there of late, too -- but I have a feeling that second-guessing Matt is about as ill-advised as Pope Guilty's quonsar-is-a-troll callout (the inevitable response to which brought this to mind, for some reason), so yeah.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 1:48 PM on November 15, 2007

even Hank Aaron has to strike out some time.

Once or twice.
posted by dersins at 1:48 PM on November 15, 2007

WHO WANTS BEADS?????????

*Tries not to laugh, rolls a 1D20 for parry, gets a 1. Fails saving throw, spews coffee*

Suddenly I'm reminded of my older step-cousin, who went through a phase where she'd sneak up and stick her sweater over my head. Sans bra.

Being all of 10 or so, I was a might bit confused. Well, pleasantly confused. I distinctly remember a Keanu Reeves-like chain of thoughts. "Woah. What the hell is that all about?" and just marveling at how large and round they were. I can still remember the sweater-y girly smell, and...

*gaze grows distant, glassy*

Uh, err, what? Right. Boobies. Sorry, storytime is over. Run along now.

*smokes, sips coffee, appearing distant and reflective*
posted by loquacious at 1:50 PM on November 15, 2007 [2 favorites]

I got wooted at once by two women

I hate you with a burning, vile passion that will outlive the universe. Empires will rise and fall. Stars will burn out. Whole galaxies will plunge into darkness, and yet my hatred will prevail. The last living thing in existence before the universe dies will bear witness to my unyielding fury.

...and in that final moment, I will at last have some measure of revenge. You may have your women, but my pure hate will be the last thing standing in all of existence.

(Shh! Don't tell anyone: I'd rather have the women)
posted by aramaic at 1:51 PM on November 15, 2007 [6 favorites]

I dunno. I feel like I should get whistled at more often, personally.
posted by DrGirlfriend at 1:53 PM on November 15, 2007 [1 favorite]

Too bad matt let one machoboy spoilsport ruin it for everybody. Worst deletion of the month IMO

No doubt that four panels is a jerk in that thread and in the past, but the thread sucked because the original post's link sucked. It doesn't matter who raised a stink about it, the one thing they were right about was that the post sucked.
posted by mathowie at 1:56 PM on November 15, 2007 [1 favorite]

Fallacy: Ad Hominem

Description of Ad Hominem
Translated from Latin to English, "Ad Hominem" means "against the man" or "against the person."

An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting). This type of "argument" has the following form:

Person A makes claim X.
Person B makes an attack on person A.
Therefore A's claim is false.

The reason why an Ad Hominem (of any kind) is a fallacy is that the character, circumstances, or actions of a person do not (in most cases) have a bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made (or the quality of the argument being made).
posted by four panels at 1:58 PM on November 15, 2007

OMG, a definition! My worldview just shifted completely!
posted by aramaic at 2:02 PM on November 15, 2007 [8 favorites]

Early this week, I saw a new mail notification "Flasher in the garage". It caught my eye, so I went to see what it said, and was saddly disappointed to find out it was just a story about some left on car lights.
Another mefite here could tell his side of the time he was over at my loft, and my female friend from KC flashed her nipple piercing at him. Exhibitionism is not a single-gender obsession.
posted by nomisxid at 2:03 PM on November 15, 2007

four panels, I wasn't saying "four panels is a dick, therefore his point is incorrect."

I was saying "four panels is a dick."
posted by dersins at 2:04 PM on November 15, 2007 [26 favorites]

Put differently: "four panels, what a phallus he is."
posted by cog_nate at 2:07 PM on November 15, 2007 [2 favorites]

*whistles at DrGirlfriend*

Actually, I've always wanted to do that. Dr. Girlfriend is hot.
posted by loquacious at 2:08 PM on November 15, 2007

did you really paste in a complete definition for Ad Hominem? What the fuck do you think this is, internet 101?
posted by boo_radley at 2:09 PM on November 15, 2007

Description of Ad Hominem

I think four panels is right in that any alleged orangutan fucking should not bear upon the point he's trying to make here.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 2:10 PM on November 15, 2007 [2 favorites]

Dr. Girlfriend is hot.

You meant to say "hawt" didn't you? Didn't you?

...I'm sorry, I'm going to have to take away your Internet License. We have standards to maintain here.
posted by aramaic at 2:12 PM on November 15, 2007

"I can't access craigslist from work"

That alone ought to disqualify you from being a moderator.

Lamer.

lol
posted by mr_crash_davis at 2:16 PM on November 15, 2007

Dr. Girlfriend is te-eh sexxx and Foine.
posted by boo_radley at 2:16 PM on November 15, 2007

You're all just going to live with the fact that miss lynnster and delmoi have experienced every single thing in life and, as definitive and unimpeachable authorities on all that exists in our puny reality, they will tell you their opinion on all these subjects whether you like it or not.

By joining Metafilter, you voluntarily accept the risk and consequences of delmoi and/or miss lynnster explaining, relating to, identifying with, and/or correcting your wrongful view of any situation you might find yourself in, as well as identifying, exposing, and/or passing judgment on your person, including but not limited to your self-identity, personality, beliefs, psychological state, occupation, activities, and/or deviant behaviours.
posted by Krrrlson at 2:16 PM on November 15, 2007 [22 favorites]

So, to all the puppy rapist Mefites out there, I say: how could you? They're puppies!
posted by Krrrlson at 2:18 PM on November 15, 2007 [1 favorite]

compare that with an attack against Native American grain dishes, a particularly invective polemic that came, over time, to be known as ad hominy. See also a screed against short Catholic sermons, the ad homily.
posted by boo_radley at 2:19 PM on November 15, 2007 [4 favorites]

Thank you for the deletion Matt.
posted by PugAchev at 2:19 PM on November 15, 2007

compare that with an attack against Native American grain dishes, a particularly invective polemic that came, over time, to be known as ad hominy. See also a screed against short Catholic sermons, the ad homily.

I think you're grasping for the less obvious, but more relevant "ad humuna".
posted by felix betachat at 2:21 PM on November 15, 2007

Don't forget ad homonym: "To be frank, he's being a dick."
posted by Floydd at 2:23 PM on November 15, 2007

I once got whistled at by an orang
posted by taliaferro at 2:25 PM on November 15, 2007

"Exhibitionism is not a single-gender obsession."

No, and I didn't mean to imply that it was. However, the gendered space that men and women occupy regarding their exhibitionism is quite different.
posted by klangklangston at 2:34 PM on November 15, 2007 [1 favorite]

I'm just pissed that miss lynnster misspelled 'masturbator' and no one's called her on it yet.

Now I'm pissed that 'masturbator' isn't in Firefox's built-in dictionary and gets a red underlining, making me feel like I've done something wrong.

Thanks, assholes, for making me feel like I'm stupid. You know who you are.
posted by item at 2:35 PM on November 15, 2007 [7 favorites]

Once a few years ago, as I was waiting on my bicycle at the red to cross NE 65th on 15th NE, going south, next to the Rising Sun vegetable stand, a cheerleader in uniform from Roosevelt High School leaned out of the passenger side window of the SUV which was turning right ahead of me, opened her arms wide and sang 'I'll be lying in your arms tonight...' to me at the top of her lungs, to the general startlement of vegetable shoppers-- and me, of course, though I did manage to laugh through my blushes and shout back 'you bad girls!' as the other cheerleader driving hit the gas and they took off.

The joke was that I'm too old even for her mother, really, but it was still kind of fun.
posted by jamjam at 2:38 PM on November 15, 2007

Oh, I do hate to draw generalizations, but I'm noticing that all the male wootees got enwooted when they were out on their bikes. I mention this because the one time I've been at-wooted was when I was out running. (A long, time ago, oh yes. A very long time ago.)

So is it some sort of exercise thing? Sweat and effort? I'm not hearing any guys saying they got catcalled just strolling down the street with their bag of KFC or cruising the interstate in a late-model Golf.
posted by L. Fitzgerald Sjoberg at 2:38 PM on November 15, 2007 [1 favorite]

Thanks, assholes, for making me feel like I'm stupid. You know who you are.

It's when you start arguing with yourself that you just know for sure that the crazy is kicking in.
posted by loquacious at 2:39 PM on November 15, 2007

Sometimes, it's good that missed the drama.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:39 PM on November 15, 2007

Even if it's about a cartoon character, I am greatly enjoying all the references to Dr Girlfriend being hot.
posted by DrGirlfriend at 2:42 PM on November 15, 2007 [1 favorite]

I long for the day when people who don't know how to properly use the term ad hominem will stop pretending that they do. Most overused and misused whine in the history of online argument. There is a pretty clear-cut difference between an ad hominem fallacy and a simple insult or personal criticism that the average philosopher fully grasps by the end of his or her freshman year of college, but by my own completely unscientific estimates, roughly 75% of people who use the term in online debates have absolutely no grasp of that distinction.

That and the goddamn straw man. Please, my dear gentlemen and ladies, in the name of all that is erudite and learned, out of respect for the disciplines of philosophy and rhetoric specifically and the English language in general, please study these terms carefully before you fling them about like so much mushy, fly-studded shit.

/pedant
posted by middleclasstool at 2:42 PM on November 15, 2007 [5 favorites]

I masturbate in public sometimes, but only when no one's watching.
posted by tehloki at 2:42 PM on November 15, 2007 [1 favorite]

The question at hand, unanswerable because it's a personal experience, is whether MetaFilter is a boyzone. It's come up in MetaTalk more than once: boyzone thread. The general consensus is that MetaFilter can seem that way at times but mainly reflects the internet as a whole.

Hysteria, the title of this thread, has a long and interesting history in the discourse about women. I really can't imagine why anyone would suggest that, the discussion on the experience women have of street harassment having been closed (whatever the quality of the original post), Metafilter is a boyzone.
posted by jennydiski at 2:44 PM on November 15, 2007 [7 favorites]

"Enwooted" is my new absolute favorite word.
posted by Dormant Gorilla at 2:44 PM on November 15, 2007 [2 favorites]

four panels, you asshole.
posted by liquorice at 2:48 PM on November 15, 2007 [1 favorite]

So is it some sort of exercise thing? Sweat and effort? I'm not hearing any guys saying they got catcalled just strolling down the street with their bag of KFC or cruising the interstate in a late-model Golf.

I have never wooted at a guy, but if I were to do so, it would probably be at one who is exercising or exerting some sort of physical effort. Maybe even a construction worker, for extra table-turning effect. Can't really explain it, it's just sexy. Certainly a hell of a lot sexier than walking down the street with the Colonel.
posted by DrGirlfriend at 2:50 PM on November 15, 2007

M.C. Lo-Carb!: "Huh. I totally agreed with her. As a man, I've always wondered what men were thinking even when they just whistle or w00t out the car window at women. Women never do these sorts of things. It's not sexism to observe that."

I've had great luck with the old lean out the window and "Yo baby, ignore me or give me the finger!". It's worked every single time.
posted by 31d1 at 2:50 PM on November 15, 2007 [3 favorites]

I long for the day when people who don't know how to properly use the term ad hominem will stop pretending that they do.
posted by middleclasstool at 5:42 PM on November 15M

I took a couple of years of philosophy (my minor) at Georgetown - when you email then to complain of their program, maybe you could CC me on it.
posted by four panels at 2:51 PM on November 15, 2007 [1 favorite]

weirdly, woot.com is down right now. I blame four panels.
posted by boo_radley at 2:52 PM on November 15, 2007

All this talk about wooting has me despressed. Not only did I not realize there was a woot-off going on today, but by the time I get home it's crashed!

wait...

what?
posted by absalom at 2:53 PM on November 15, 2007

Damn it, boo!
posted by absalom at 2:53 PM on November 15, 2007

Also, it's weird that you'd complain of sexism and title your post Hysterics. Shame on you.
posted by boo_radley at 2:53 PM on November 15, 2007 [1 favorite]

Fast-moving threads are a good place for confessions.
posted by tehloki at 2:54 PM on November 15, 2007 [1 favorite]

middleclasstool: I believe it would be totally out of line to banhammer anyone who misuses the term "straw man."
posted by absalom at 2:55 PM on November 15, 2007

All right, I can now predict the outcome of any thread that mentions:

1) Fat People
---LOLFATTIES/lazy fucks/I have at thyroid condition/don't worry, ladies of MetaFilter, I'd still hit it

2) God
---You people are stupid and superstitious/Why do you care what I believe/I care because I am a superior thinker/You know who else was an atheist?

3) My girlfriend is acting weird
---Dump her! You - a nerdy guy on the internet - can totally do heaps better!/You need to learn how to act like an alpha male, I read about it on a seduction message board, it totally works

4) Any combination of ladies+sex
---It's your girlfriend's fault for being fat/It's your girlfriend's fault for not being sexual enough/Uncomfortable jokes about vaginas/Ladies, I sure do love cunnilingus

And now:

5) Sometimes Shitty Things Happen To Women
---OH YEAH, well shitty things happen to men too, here's my anecdote!/Ladies, I sure do love cunnilingus/I'm a girl - check out my profile picture! - and I don't mind when it happens to me, *giggle*, PAY ATTENTION TO ME PLEASE.
posted by thehmsbeagle at 2:56 PM on November 15, 2007 [58 favorites]

I took a couple of years of philosophy (my minor) at Georgetown - when you email then to complain of their program, maybe you could CC me on it.

Ad meum?
posted by felix betachat at 2:56 PM on November 15, 2007

I'm SO not sexist.

No, you're just not a terribly deep thinker if the only conclusion you can draw from someone exposing themselves is "That man would like to have sex with me." This is the same phallusy be-hind some homophobia: "I am so goddamn good looking, any dude into dudes would totally want to get into this dude."

So "Hi" from the bottom of my well where I look at the world: people who expose themselves tend to be deeply damaged and have their sex wiring all crossed up and think their penis is even worse than you do and just generally think they are wrong and bad and need to be yelled at because that's the way it always has been. It's like being a Catholic, only you buy your own vestments. From say, London Fog.
posted by yerfatma at 2:58 PM on November 15, 2007 [8 favorites]

I took a couple of years of philosophy (my minor) at Georgetown - when you email then to complain of their program, maybe you could CC me on it.

I'm not prepared to blame Georgetown at this point.
posted by middleclasstool at 2:58 PM on November 15, 2007 [1 favorite]

PAY ATTENTION TO ME PLEASE.
posted by liquorice at 3:01 PM on November 15, 2007

I'd like to request that the next all-girl band name itself The Toolbelt Manhaters and their first hit single be called Camila Fried Paglianties.
posted by fandango_matt at 3:01 PM on November 15, 2007 [7 favorites]

What, no one has wooted at you yet, liquorice?
posted by absalom at 3:04 PM on November 15, 2007

This is the same phallusy behind some homophobia

You did that on purpose, didn't you?
posted by Atom Eyes at 3:04 PM on November 15, 2007

jennidiski, as much as I sometimes suspect that is true, (like in that big MeTa thread I was in last week where I got checked as overreacting by a gaggle of dudes for calling "feminazi" an unfunny slur) there are enough inspiring displays to the contrary (see: most of AskMe) for me to now disagree overall. four panels is not representative of our mefi men, who are wonderful, and the sophomoric pushing of buttons is not a male trait here. In any case, I think stating or complaining that it's a "boyzone" over and over does no one any good, is an oversimplification, and only serves to intimidate women.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 3:05 PM on November 15, 2007 [1 favorite]

However, the gendered space that men and women
occupy regarding their exhibitionism is quite different.
I wonder, klang, how much that space differs not out of desire to exhibit, on the female side, so much as fear that the consequences would be greater/more-immediate. My 4'11" mom, had she any exhibitionistic tendancies, would seem more practically limited in terms of times/places where she could feel 'safe' as a flasher. The 5'8 man probably feels more in control more often.
posted by nomisxid at 3:05 PM on November 15, 2007

I have to know...

Why the fuck do we bother replying to four panels' baiting? This IS the guy who posts something like It's not okay to be fat to MeTa and then disappears from the thread almost entirely, right? Can we please institute some kind of policy where his metatalk posts get closed immediately? If the post he hates really sucks, delete it, but there's just no reason for us to sit here discussing what a dick he is since he's not going to respond with anything of substance ever."Durp durp, of course I used ad hominem correctly! I took philosophy at georgetown! Durp durp!" For real, anything this cock posts to meta should be closed as soon as possible, with a little note saying "dear four panels, we hate you. sincerely, metafilter." It's about all these threads ever come to anyway.
posted by shmegegge at 3:12 PM on November 15, 2007 [12 favorites]

As a gesture of solidarity, I have dumped four panels as a contact.

*raises fist*
posted by fandango_matt at 3:15 PM on November 15, 2007 [1 favorite]

What, no one has wooted at you yet, liquorice?

Nope, never. Nor have I been cat-called, honked or been flashed.

But after reading personal accounts in the other thread, I think I'm okay with that.
posted by liquorice at 3:16 PM on November 15, 2007

Also, I would like to extend a hearty "Woot Woot!" to any member of this thread who would appreciate one, regardless of gender or sexual inclination, and a hearty "Have a good day, sir or madam," to anyone who does not appreciate being enwooted. May we all have precisely what we want.
posted by shmegegge at 3:16 PM on November 15, 2007

shmegegge: I think that MeTa was actually one of the better fat threads, no thanks to four panels, of course.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 3:18 PM on November 15, 2007

Me? I like a good woot every now and then.
posted by felix betachat at 3:20 PM on November 15, 2007

Ambrosia - my point wasn't so much about individuals, but about the whole thread being closed down in which, quite rarely maybe as many women as men were engaged.

And we're in deep shit if after all this time on the planet we are still worried about women being intimidated by male chatter. We can't not describe things as we see them in case it makes women nervous.
posted by jennydiski at 3:20 PM on November 15, 2007

From the FPP: The drawing made me laugh. So sue me.

OK, allz I gotta say is... I pretty much don't usually care for cheap humor. But I gotta agree: it made me laugh too.

Especially since they got my size TOTALLY wrong!
posted by The Deej at 3:21 PM on November 15, 2007 [1 favorite]

Did four panels call me A Hominem?

Oh, Ad Hominem, like calling women who complain about being 'flashed' sexist toolbelted manhater stereotypes.

As one who has been severely wronged by more than one of the Female of this species, I should be less feminist-friendly, I guess. And there have been times in my life when I was adequately 'neutered' by the women around me to be included in their 'girl talk.' And one topic that surprised me was "getting flashed" and it was enlightening how close to a universal female experience it seemed to be (always over 50% of assembled females had a story about it).

In defense of the vast majority of the male population though, I must point out that the ability for a single flasher to 'hit' several hundred victims before getting caught (especially once he starts getting good at it) means that a small fraction of one percent of the male population is capable of traumatizing that over 50% of the females.

It MUST also be noted that it's deeply flawed, fallacious and kind of dishonest to compare the unprovoked and usually aggressive male pervert/indecent exposer to the bribing of women to expose their breasts in Mardi Gras/'Girls Gone Wild' or even the Britney exposures (for which her motivation was general disregard for social norms and the sexually exhibitionist motivations were from those distributing the pictures* - not that I disrespect her any less for it). There's also a world of difference between "raincoat-style" flashing and streaking, except maybe for the guy on the Oscar that one year. I'd say it's all comparing apples and oranges, but you know somebody would bring up bananas.

Yes, the original link was way less than the Best of the Web, but it was one of the rare occasions when MeFi became something very NOT boyzone, and I found it interesting and refreshing.

And as far as Craigslist and other 'poor sources' are concerned; maybe cortex should be allowed to automatically delete posts with links to sites his work 'puter is not allowed to access. As long as he can still access MetaFilter. But, then it would be a moot point, which is another fallacy I'm guilty of, right, fp?

*The Web's Beloved April Winchell once published a photoshopped picture of Britney - you'd KNOW it if you saw it - that I was going to link to for shock value, but couldn't Google up on short notice. Sad.
posted by wendell at 3:22 PM on November 15, 2007 [8 favorites]

Damn, liquorice, just the other day I was cruisin' for hotties in their profiles and I was like damn I should Memail this chick a rawr, but then it turns out there's an entire planet between us so it would be hard to get to the point where I could waggle my dick at you so instead I didn't. But please accept this half-woot as a token of my filthy sexism.
posted by 31d1 at 3:24 PM on November 15, 2007 [1 favorite]

I'm not hearing any guys saying they got catcalled just strolling down the street with their bag of KFC or cruising the interstate in a late-model Golf.

That's crazy talk, Lore. Chicks love it when I show them my fahrvergnugen.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 3:24 PM on November 15, 2007

This whole mess is made worthwhile by the coining of the words "enwooted" and "phallusy"...
posted by wendell at 3:30 PM on November 15, 2007

I guess he could always ask for a refund.
posted by isopraxis at 3:32 PM on November 15, 2007 [4 favorites]

I really can't imagine why anyone would suggest that, the discussion on the experience women have of street harassment having been closed (whatever the quality of the original post), Metafilter is a boyzone.

The one has nothing to do with the other. I've enjoyed many a post by Miss Lynster, but this one was weak. This callout is also weak, but that doesn't mean the deletion isn't justified. If you've got proof that Matt's deletion is part of some boycentric agenda, bring it on. Otherwise complaining about non-existent sexism in a totally reasonable deletion isn't helping the cause. There are lots of great discussions of women's issues here if you do a little investigation.

On preview: what Ambrosia Voyeur said.
posted by oneirodynia at 3:35 PM on November 15, 2007

there are enough inspiring displays to the contrary (see: most of AskMe) for me to now disagree overall.

This is not a good thing, though, this splitting. It's reasonably predictable that more women would participate in a site in which personal attacks or inappropriate comments are deleted, and in which the overall goal is to foster a community that helps and supports each other.

The fact that the part of the site specifically set up to avoid a boyzone is not a boyzone is not actually an argument that all of MetaFilter is somehow gender-balanced. I got so tired of feeling totally disgusted every single time I read a MeFi thread that I've just stopped using that part of the site (with a few exceptions recently that I just immediately regretted). I somehow doubt I'm the only one.
posted by occhiblu at 3:40 PM on November 15, 2007 [6 favorites]

jennydiski: I really can't imagine why anyone would suggest that, the discussion on the experience women have of street harassment having been closed (whatever the quality of the original post), Metafilter is a boyzone.

... but about the whole thread being closed down in which, quite rarely maybe as many women as men were engaged.

Hmm? Are you saying the gender ratio of commenters should be taken into account when a mod determines whether or not a post is sub-par? I can see the quality of the ensuing discussion maybe saving a crappy thread... but the demographics of the commenting parties?

Once upon a time there was a FPP which was a video of gay furry porn, which was deleted with "Gay porn? Really? That's what you wanted to share with us?" as the deletion reason. It was pretty craptacular. But, supposing that all of metafilter's homos had commented about their experiences with porn in that thread, should it have been spared? Would deleting it have been some sort of evidence of the mod's (I believe it was jessamyn) latent anti-porn and/or anti-gay nature?
posted by CKmtl at 3:42 PM on November 15, 2007 [1 favorite]

"I wonder, klang, how much that space differs not out of desire to exhibit, on the female side, so much as fear that the consequences would be greater/more-immediate. My 4'11" mom, had she any exhibitionistic tendancies, would seem more practically limited in terms of times/places where she could feel 'safe' as a flasher. The 5'8 man probably feels more in control more often."

Well, yeah. That's some of it. But I'd argue that's just one facet that informs the meaning of the exhibition.
posted by klangklangston at 3:43 PM on November 15, 2007

Would deleting it have been some sort of evidence of the mod's (I believe it was jessamyn) latent anti-porn and/or anti-gay nature?

No. But it could be evidence of her Anti-Furry nature. And I think we can give her a bye on that.
posted by tkchrist at 3:47 PM on November 15, 2007

tehloki: I masturbate in public sometimes, but only when no one's watching.

Well that explains the blood in my stool this morning.
posted by public at 3:48 PM on November 15, 2007 [2 favorites]

occiblu: I didn't mean to refer to the women participants of AskMe. My mistake, that was unclear. I meant to refer to the thoughtful and enlightened contributions in evidence from the men.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 3:49 PM on November 15, 2007

For real, anything this cock posts to meta should be closed as soon as possible, with a little note saying "dear four panels, we hate you. sincerely, metafilter."
posted by shmegegge at 3:12 PM on November 15

You seem like a smart enough guy, maybe not very witty, but there is a genuine effort to your insults. But take care as the feeble minded are the first to take comfort in hatred.

I also notice your post/comment to favorites ratio is about 19%. With a little work and maybe 500 more quality first page posts, you could get it closer to mine, around 67%.
posted by four panels at 3:50 PM on November 15, 2007

Is it wrong that public's comment made me laugh until I cried?
posted by never used baby shoes at 3:51 PM on November 15, 2007 [2 favorites]

But, supposing that all of metafilter's homos had commented about their experiences with porn in that thread, should it have been spared? Would deleting it have been some sort of evidence of the mod's (I believe it was jessamyn) latent anti-porn and/or anti-gay nature?

Um...maybe? I realize this was meant as a gotcha moment, but I think you failed; I think that certainly could be evidence of such a nature, yes. Certainly pornographic (or at least "erotic") materials have comprised FPPs here in the past. Any number of things could make this hypothetical FPP different, patently worthy of deletion -- or not.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 3:52 PM on November 15, 2007

In this case the gender ratio was relevant to the quality of the discussion since the women were talking of experience that the men seemed not to have had. And frankly an evening up of the gender ratio was surprising and interesting.

I may have it all wrong, but I would have thought that what happens in the ensuing conversation is taken into account when deciding to close a thread. If an interesting debate doesn't override a poor post, then too much surely is lost.
posted by jennydiski at 3:52 PM on November 15, 2007

your post/comment to favorites ratio

And ad rationum rears it's ugly head.
posted by cortex at 3:54 PM on November 15, 2007 [4 favorites]

I also notice your post/comment to favorites ratio is about 19%. With a little work and maybe 500 more quality first page posts, you could get it closer to mine, around 67%.

Okay, I call bullshit: Now you're just trying to sound like a fucking tool. (Hint: It works)
posted by kittens for breakfast at 3:54 PM on November 15, 2007

jennydiski: you're making the fundamental error that the blue is about the comments. It isn't, it's about the posts.
posted by Justinian at 3:55 PM on November 15, 2007

you could get it closer to mine, around 67%.

How do you fit a hand and both feet in your mouth? That's awesome.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 3:57 PM on November 15, 2007 [2 favorites]

so - did anyone ever figure out why that guy on the freeway was waving his four panels around?
posted by pyramid termite at 3:57 PM on November 15, 2007 [1 favorite]

I'm making a fundamental assumption that quality conversation matters, here or anywhere else. In any case, why have comments if only the posts signify?
posted by jennydiski at 3:58 PM on November 15, 2007

I also notice your post/comment to favorites ratio is about 19%. With a little work and maybe 500 more quality first page posts, you could get it closer to mine, around 67%.

Nice attempt to appeal to authority, philosophy boy.
posted by dersins at 3:58 PM on November 15, 2007

I also notice your post/comment to favorites ratio is about 19%. With a little work and maybe 500 more quality first page posts, you could get it closer to mine, around 67%.

Favorites don't mean shit you knuckle-dragging troll. Snark and quick wit translates into a high favorite count since people are inclined to press that button impulsively. Your value as a member of the community is hardly encapsulated in that stupid number. If you think it is, maybe you need to spend some time in a different Skinner box for a while.
posted by felix betachat at 3:58 PM on November 15, 2007 [2 favorites]

I read the link to miss lynster's post and I immediately thought, "oh, baby, I can totally relate to that." I had a boyfriend who did that shaking-the-wiener thing and I always thought to myself, "is that supposed to be turning me on, because it's NOT". Then I started reading this thread, and I'm thinking I'm in the fucking Twilight Zone or something. "Sexist"? "Do not want"? Dang, I'm disappointed. Sorry, chicks DO NOT love that.
posted by wafaa at 3:59 PM on November 15, 2007

If an interesting debate doesn't override a poor post, then too much surely is lost.

I hear you, jennydiski, but it is necessarily a game of compromise, and one of the fundamental ideas guiding the front page of metafilter is that the link matters. So while there's the possibility that the conversation will redeem, to some degree, the poor quality of a post, sometime the post is just unredeemably bad.

A link to a single item on Craigslist (barring something tremendously elevating about the particular item—and I didn't see it, but I gather this wasn't) is just not what should fly on the front page. And leaving it around runs the risk of condoning bad posts for potential good conversation's sake, which isn't where we want the front page going.

It means we might lose some interesting conversations, but it also means we definitely lose some really shitty posts. And if there's a good topic broached by a crappy and subsequently deleted post, there nothing stopping someone from following up (ideally coolly and with a bit of a buffer, rather than in a fit of pique) with a good post on the topic. Which is how it should be done. And then: best of both worlds.
posted by cortex at 4:04 PM on November 15, 2007

*taps mic*

Attention, ladies and gentlemen, I have an announcement to make:

:ahem:

While the subject matter of the post, e.g. the "link" may have only been of average quality, the discussion it spawned was lively and interesting. I hereby protest it's deletion.

Thank you.

*throws open trench to reveal naked body*

Check it out!

...

oh. oh please stop screaming...

I'm so sorry.
posted by quin at 4:05 PM on November 15, 2007 [1 favorite]

you're making the fundamental error that the blue is about the comments. It isn't, it's about the posts.

'Linkism' is the last refuge of the incompetent moderator.
posted by jamjam at 4:08 PM on November 15, 2007

you're making the fundamental error that the blue is about the comments. It isn't, it's about the posts.

Um...maybe in theory...

I dunno. Not to burst any bubbles here, but a lot of what I see on the front page on a daily basis I see elsewhere, too. But this is generally the only place on the internet I'm interested in seeing those things discussed. I have a feeling I'm not atypical in this.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:09 PM on November 15, 2007 [8 favorites]

Don't bother me with your real-world squishiness. I'm all about the theory.

Now, consider this spherical cow...
posted by Justinian at 4:11 PM on November 15, 2007 [1 favorite]

That does it. Now that i know fourpanels has a 67% approval rating here, I am SO going to woot him.
posted by misha at 4:14 PM on November 15, 2007

a lot of what I see on the front page on a daily basis I see elsewhere, too

The best posts are the ones that you don't see elsewhere.
posted by grouse at 4:15 PM on November 15, 2007 [1 favorite]

'Linkism' is the last refuge of the incompetent moderator.

I disagree strongly. We've stuck with the mantra that the link a post hinges on must be interesting and have some merit for the past 8 years -- that if the original link is really lame, no matter where the conversation has gone (and we let it go for far too long) it doesn't save a crap link. Otherwise we run the risk of just being another discussion forum where anything anyone feels like talking about simply requires a semi-related link (whether or not the link is any good doesn't matter).

The problem with this specific case is that there's a post with a crappy throwaway craigslist post at its core, but there's an interesting discussion that follows, and it was reported to metatalk here by someone that has a history of griefing other users a bit. So it's easy to grab on one of the latter two points, that hey! there was an interesting discussion! keep it going, why ya gotta delete it?! and there's also "omg you listened to THAT guy's complaint about it?!" but I'm ignoring both of those things and removing a post that didn't have a strong link. I'm not using the quality of the link as an excuse, it's been our way of moderating since the site began and yeah, unfortunately we lose a few long discussions when it happens.

Ideally, I would have seen that earlier than three hours after it was posted (I was busy working out new server security details with pb) and acted on it then. Jessamyn's out today traveling and mentioned the post seemed problematic, esp. after four panels started throwing insults around in it and we both sort of shrugged our shoulders knowing that doing nothing would result in a metatalk post as well as doing something about the post. I went to lunch, came back to see this, and decided to go with the first instinct to delete it.
posted by mathowie at 4:20 PM on November 15, 2007 [1 favorite]

but a lot of what I see on the front page on a daily basis I see elsewhere, too

Then more pruning. Give me posts of quality so brilliant they mute the membership.
posted by yerfatma at 4:22 PM on November 15, 2007

Matt, what matters here is whether he deserves a punch in the mouth in your houseparty analogy.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 4:27 PM on November 15, 2007 [1 favorite]

jennydiski: you're making the fundamental error that the blue is about the comments. It isn't, it's about the posts.

I see Matt has weighed in, but I'll add my two bits. You (Justinian) are making the even more fundamental error of black-and-whiting, and compounding that error by ignoring damn near a decade's active and unresolved debate about the relative importance of links versus comments with a sweeping, reductionist blanket statement.

The blue is as much or more about the comments for many people (myself included) as the links, but years of experience has shown the wisdom of the policy that no matter how good the ensuing conversation, if the original link or links that make up the post itself are teh sukc, then surgical excision is often the preferred and best way to keep the patient healthy.

So there.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:32 PM on November 15, 2007 [3 favorites]

kittens for breakfast writes: I think that certainly could be evidence of such a nature, yes. Any number of things could make this hypothetical FPP different, patently worthy of deletion -- or not.

Tracked down the furry porn post in question. With that in mind, should it have been saved from the axe if most/all of the commenters were gay or acknowledged furries? Not the quality of the discussion; only the raw fact that >X% of those involved belong to a certain group. As I see it, it was a crappy post ("look! men in stuffed animal costumes! humping!") and the demographics of those participating in the ensuing discussion has no bearing (heh) on its crappiness or lack thereof, nor on any supposed mod biases.

Certainly pornographic (or at least "erotic") materials have comprised FPPs here in the past.

Sure, and the good ones should stay up. But I'd bet they aren't all of the "look! tits! cocks!" variety.
posted by CKmtl at 4:33 PM on November 15, 2007

...I'm ignoring both of those things and removing a post that didn't have a strong link.

That was a good call, and as for this:

no matter where the conversation has gone (and we let it go for far too long) it doesn't save a crap link.

I'm glad to see some reaffirmation of that principle.
posted by Wolfdog at 4:37 PM on November 15, 2007

Occhiblu said: I got so tired of feeling totally disgusted every single time I read a MeFi thread that I've just stopped using that part of the site (with a few exceptions recently that I just immediately regretted). I somehow doubt I'm the only one.

That is, on the slim chance anyone cares, my exact experience also. And based on how many lurking women will tend to favorite comments along those lines in MeFi threads, I think it's a fairly common theme.
posted by thehmsbeagle at 4:41 PM on November 15, 2007 [6 favorites]

I was catcalled once. I was walking down the street in New Haven and from a passing bus, a young, pretty, Latino-looking girl yelled "hey sexy," at me and blew me a kiss. I assume she did it on a dare. Also, an extremely drunk middle aged woman in a bar told me that I was a 'hot young guy, but you mentioned a girlfriend*, otherwise I'd do ya.' And when I was in high school, i was sitting in the breakroom of the supermarket I worked at. At a table a few feet away some female employees were having a little coffee-klatch. One mildly mentally disabled girl said 'who's that?' 'that's jonmc,' my manager answered. 'He's cute,' she said back and followed me around for a week. She also asked me to teh prom, but I think a friend of mine might have put her up to that.

Drunks, women on dares, and the handicapped dig me, is what I'm saying.

As far as flashing goes...I think we should delineate between people who get a charge out of being looked at and admired (I'll evn cop to that myself), and the type of people who wave their weenies around on the bus. The latter get off on the force aspect of it has always been my understanding.

Also, the best retort to a flasher is 'that looks like a penis, only smaller.'
posted by jonmc at 4:44 PM on November 15, 2007 [1 favorite]

Btw, a drunk chick once grabbed my ass while I was walking down the street once. I thought it was fucking awesome.

It's a lame post linking to an average rant on craigslist that carries an image you can't even read because craigslist shrinks stuff down so much on upload. Then it's just an excuse to share stories about flashing and that's not a good use of MeFi.

Well it was probably bad material, but "sharing stories" is one of the things people really seem to like reading around here, based on what gets favorited the most. Personal stories, crazy rants, and great snark.

In light of four panels' first comment in the original thread... ...it's quite clear that he can NOT "take a bit of sexism", but he sure as fuck can dish it out.

Isn't it obvious? Four Panels is clearly the masturbating motorist!

Also I agree with famous author jennydiski.
posted by delmoi at 4:49 PM on November 15, 2007

"What do/did you do if someone flashes you?" in askmefi would have pretty much generated the same conversation (so far as I can tell), minus the offending post.

As it stands, the post/OP's comments in-thread were pretty much the definition of GYOB.
posted by stinkycheese at 5:04 PM on November 15, 2007

I didn't mean to refer to the women participants of AskMe. My mistake, that was unclear. I meant to refer to the thoughtful and enlightened contributions in evidence from the men.

You missed the huge amount of fighting it took to get to that place, though.

And to me, what you're talking about is simply proof that the users here *can* be lovely people, but the culture that's in place on MeFi proper actively works to discourage that. Which goes back to my original point.
posted by occhiblu at 5:15 PM on November 15, 2007

Well hey, this is why I usually stick to Marx Brothers films and cupcake FPPs. This uproar is ridiculous. Honestly. I said something I was honestly curious about. And I actually AM interested in people's takes on it because the comments made me realize... hey... y'know I've actually been flashed A LOT. And apparently I'm not the only one. I really have never fathomed what people who do that to you really are expecting from you. Or what is so rewarding about it. I just don't relate.

So I went there. But I was not, I repeat NOT, trying to do a blog entry. Because I don't care that much, and I am not on here for that purpse... I was making discourse. It was just something I admitted I'd been thinking, and one of those times where I suppose I should've just backed away from the computer and remembered that these fingers type too fast for their own good sometimes.

But as previously stated, I loves me some men. So the implication that I'm some kind of man-hater just makes me giggle. I couldn't be less of a man hater, I don't think. I tend to think they're pretty damn cute, and I like the way they lift heavy things for me.
posted by miss lynnster at 5:17 PM on November 15, 2007 [1 favorite]

Tracked down the furry porn post in question. With that in mind, should it have been saved from the axe if most/all of the commenters were gay or acknowledged furries? Not the quality of the discussion; only the raw fact that >X% of those involved belong to a certain group.

Well, first of all, my argument is for the quality of the discussion; I think the demographics argument in favor of the craigslist post had more to do with the number of men and women who were participating in a conversation of substance about issues related to gender and harassment (not just with the fact that a lot of men and women were in the same discussion, which is kinda every discussion on Metafilter, really -- and a lot of those men and women are also gay, and some of them are probably even furries, and, y'know, God love 'em. The furries, I mean. I like girls in shiny black vinyl shit who carry riding crops, and consequently really feel I have no room to talk at all, and um...hey! Email in profile!). Anyway, point being, I could give a fuck if 85% of whatever demographic are talking about something, if that something is, say, leave Britney alone. Who cares? But if they're talking about something relevant to their lives that maybe isn't discussed much here -- and I think a nuanced conversation about gay life, and hell, even about gay porn, amongst gay people, does qualify -- then yeah, that to me is a quality conversation, even if it is prompted by, like, a guy in a bear suit getting a blowjob.

Second, ancillary point: I see little qualitative difference between that post and this one, other than a guy in a bear suit getting a blowjob is actually sorta funny.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:19 PM on November 15, 2007

I really have never fathomed what people who do that to you really are expecting from you.

My theory is that once upon a time a flasher flashed a Peeping Thomasina and love bloomed. It's all aquest to recapture that magic.

I tend to think they're pretty damn cute, and I like the way they lift heavy things for me.

*lifts anvil, drops it on Elmer Fudd*
posted by jonmc at 5:21 PM on November 15, 2007

It's a dumb post I should have deleted hours ago. I'm gonna delete it now.
posted by mathowie

No doubt that four panels is a jerk in that thread and in the past, but the thread sucked because the original post's link sucked. It doesn't matter who raised a stink about it, the one thing they were right about was that the post sucked.
posted by mathowie

Well, my Dear Divine Miss L, it might be negative attention, but at least Teacher noticed you! ;)
posted by The Deej at 5:21 PM on November 15, 2007

I really have never fathomed what people who do that to you really are expecting from you. Or what is so rewarding about it. I just don't relate.

Again, sounds like an AskMeFi query to me. Though your answers would - I'm guessing - be pretty much useless. People who commit deviant behaviour are unlikely to be self-aware to the extent that they could answer these questions to your satisfaction.
posted by stinkycheese at 5:23 PM on November 15, 2007

I have been enwooted, catcalled, flashed (playing in a bar band has its benefits) and propositioned. Of course, this was all done by women who fully expected me to enjoy it, which I did. All back when I was a mite younger, too, I might add. However, middle-aged women in grocery stores can still be detected making silent "bedroom eyes" now and again. Or, at least I can fantasize that they do.

There was once a gay neighbor who thought I was HOTTT a few years back, and though he never flashed me, he made no bones about hollering "Hey, good lookin'!" or something similar out his car window on occasion, though he knew I was hetero and married. Initially, I considered being offended and creeped out, but I decided to find it a bit endearing.
posted by Devils Rancher at 5:26 PM on November 15, 2007

I didn't really come here with a question. To be frank, the comment fourpanels complained about was entirely inspired by fourpanels own comment a little bit earlier claiming women were being mean to men.

HE was the one who made me wonder, what do men really think this is like for us?
posted by miss lynnster at 5:27 PM on November 15, 2007

However, middle-aged women in grocery stores can still be detected making silent "bedroom eyes" now and again. Or, at least I can fantasize that they do.

That fantasizing can be dangerous. I was walking to the store a few moths agp and I noticed a cute young thing smiling at me. i walked away with my ego abloom. About a block later, I noticed that my fly was open.

There was once a gay neighbor who thought I was HOTTT a few years back

Gay dudes think I'm HOTTT, too, and I used to get all ego-abloomed about that too, until I remembered, they're gay, but they're also guys, and guys will chase after just about anything and usually loudly. So there goes that.
posted by jonmc at 5:30 PM on November 15, 2007

I think perhaps the difference is... since both sexes are aware that men can overpower women physically and rarely vice versa, the interchanges may have a much different feel for the participants when it's man/woman vs. woman/man.

Anyhow, I'm outta the thread. I don't feel like getting anyone else ticked off at me for trying to talk about it. Have a good night, folks!
posted by miss lynnster at 5:31 PM on November 15, 2007

To be frank, the comment fourpanels complained about was entirely inspired by fourpanels own comment a little bit earlier claiming women were being mean to men.

And -- frankly -- your comment gave me some pause, too, until you explained that you were talking not about the possibility that one of the male posters in the thread was a flasher, but that in the entire membership of the site it was not implausible that someone could be. Out of 60K? Um, yeah, I'd say that's a fairly safe bet. (Of course, it's a fairly safe bet that we've also got a murderer or two, which...uhh...had never once occurred to me before...so...thanks for making me think of that...?)
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:33 PM on November 15, 2007 [1 favorite]

"Of course, it's a fairly safe bet that we've also got a murderer or two, which...uhh...had never once occurred to me before..."

You haven't met scarabic, I take it.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 5:37 PM on November 15, 2007 [2 favorites]

I think perhaps the difference is... since both sexes are aware that men can overpower women physically and rarely vice versa, the interchanges may have a much different feel for the participants when it's man/woman vs. woman/man.

Of course that's true. The whole intent and dynamic, when you reverse the sexes of flasher & flashee is obvious enough on the face of it, that there's not much need for further discussion. Guys that expose themselves to little girls get a thrill out of creeping out and scaring their victims. Women who expose themselves to men get a thrill out of titillating and arousing their... recipients? you certainly can't call us victims.
posted by Devils Rancher at 5:41 PM on November 15, 2007

I was walking to the store a few months ago and I noticed a cute young thing smiling at me. i walked away with my ego abloom. About a block later, I noticed that my fly was open.

FLASHER!!!
somebody had to say it
posted by wendell at 5:43 PM on November 15, 2007

Women who expose themselves to men get a thrill out of titillating and arousing their... recipients? you certainly can't call us victims.

I used to live in a building filled with a lot of old folks in rent controlled apartments. One ancient woman liked wandering the halls with her robe open and nothing on underneath. Imagine and albino Yoda's nutsack and you're somewhere close.

Put me off nudity for a while.
posted by jonmc at 5:46 PM on November 15, 2007

You haven't met scarabic, I take it.

Whoa.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:49 PM on November 15, 2007

Imagine and albino Yoda's nutsack and you're somewhere close.

DO NOT WANT SOMETHING CLOSE
posted by loquacious at 5:56 PM on November 15, 2007 [2 favorites]

A possible Woot! story:
Just last Saturday a girl yelled from her car at me, "Walk faster. Your t-shirt is [...unintelligible...]." My T-Shirt was plain black. I can think of no end to that sentence that could make any sense.
posted by meech at 5:57 PM on November 15, 2007 [3 favorites]

Fading?
posted by box at 6:01 PM on November 15, 2007

"Walk faster. Your t-shirt is [...unintelligible...]."

...ON FIRE, YO
posted by kittens for breakfast at 6:02 PM on November 15, 2007 [1 favorite]

ON SALE AT TARGET FIVE FOR A DOLLAR BUT THEY'RE SELLING OUT FAST

?
posted by thehmsbeagle at 6:07 PM on November 15, 2007

kittens for breakfast: Well, first of all, my argument is for the quality of the discussion...

That's fine, I guess. My initial comment to jennydiski (the one you objected to as a "failed gotcha") wasn't about discussion quality though. It was about her seemingly claiming that participant demographics - in this case being a woman - should somehow factor into the deletion decisions that get made around here. Or that deleting a sub-par post with lots of comments from groups XYZ is evidence that the site and/or mods are biased against groups XYZ.

She clarified afterwards that participant demographics could be related to quality. I suppose it could, in some cases. But only if those participants are contributing quality comments. The flashing discussion would have been rather meh if all the female commenters had made jokes about the flashee's lack of artistic talent. So, it's still quality, not demographics, that's "important".

These beans, they are delicious. But they're going to make me gassy.
posted by CKmtl at 6:08 PM on November 15, 2007

Hysterics November 15, 2007 1:09 PM Subscribe

Hysterics
November 15, 2007 1:09 PM Subscribe