I come here not to praise favorites but to bury them

Oh please please can I have a pony and can he be a clone of the FAVORITES Pony, only this time we call him REMEMBER THIS and he's just for MEEEEEEE?

Yes, people can use favorites however they want, and for a long time now I've rolled my eyes and thought "what does it matter? Use it how you like." But we've moved from Matt's original statement of how he thought they'd be used to discussions about it and Metatalk callouts over them to this, which finally convinced me that under the current name they are just doomed to repeatedly be a muddled source of contention:

^ What's more upsetting is that Derek marked that as a favorite comment. I now really question the true motivations behind this site.

I think the word 'favorite' and the fact that a user's favorites are publicly viewable is just forever going to cause a pain in the ass. The word favorite is loaded and implies a judgment. People obviously like it and view the ability to discover things via favorites as valuable, so killing or renaming it isn't a good solution.

So why not just dupe the code and add a "track this" ability? People like me who just want to watch/remember something can do it without implied approval and someone who might be embarrassed to watch a certain thread can do it without someone knowing they're interested in bunghole content facts.

And we can finally stop talking about what favorites are 'for.'

posted by phearlez to feature requests at 8:24 PM (65 comments total) 2 users marked this as a favorite

*ironically favorites this post*
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:27 PM on February 14 [1 favorite]

And these "track this", would they be visible to others? I take it, no?
posted by LobsterMitten at 8:27 PM on February 14

Why would I ever need to track anything?
posted by smackfu at 8:28 PM on February 14

Gmail calls those emails that you want to track as 'Stars'. But I guess a star is too loaded a word as well around these parts.
posted by dhruva at 8:32 PM on February 14

I'll take this whole post as a bald ploy to get me to read that sweet anal thread you linked to. Beautiful!
posted by breezeway at 8:33 PM on February 14 [1 favorite]

The word favorite is loaded and implies a judgment.

Here's a related judgment: It's nobody's damned business why anyone favorites anything.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:00 PM on February 14 [1 favorite]

And we can finally stop talking about what favorites are 'for.'

They're not FOR anything. They're for whatever you want them to be for. Changing what they're called would not change what people use them for.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:00 PM on February 14 [1 favorite]

LobsterMitten - I'd say no, just so there's one public and one private. People who want to send the Slashdot +1 message can use faves that way, as can people who want to watch something and indicate approval.

Smack, I favorite answers in AskMe that I found funny or useful so I can find them again later, or messages in the blue because I want to read them later (like the Bob & Doug thread which had WAY more links that I could look at in one or even five sittings) or AskMe questions that I didn't ask but I'll be interested in seeing the answers to because it's a problem I or someone I know has.

I mean, I have a favorite here for this question about a DC-area gastro specialist because it's a need someone close to me has and it might contain useful answers. That clearly jibes with 1's description that they're to be "an internal bookmark system, a way to keep a list of the good questions, great comments, or interesting ideas you've found here" and with AskMe items being open for such a long time now there's a non-zero chance that someone might come back and post an answer long after it falls off the front screen.
posted by phearlez at 9:02 PM on February 14

I have seen "bookmarks" put out most frequently as a new name for favorites, but allow me to suggest "marks" instead.
posted by carsonb at 9:23 PM on February 14

*unironically favorites this post*
posted by timeistight at 9:36 PM on February 14

Or you could call it something else completely...
posted by team lowkey at 9:43 PM on February 14

All we really need to do is make the favorite count invisible. Then, the people who favorite things because they want to give an "attaboy" can do it, and be happy. The people who favorite things so they can keep track of them can do it, and be happy. And the people who favorite things because they've got an o.c.d. (I'm looking at you, tehloki.) can do it, and be happy.
posted by Dave Faris at 9:53 PM on February 14

I wouldn't mind having the option to have my favorites be private. A few times I've come across a comment that is breathtakingly asinine; I want to remember it, but there's no way I'm going to favorite it and have everybody think I'm a complete asshole. I end up saving the comment to delicious, marking it "do not share" and tagging it metafilter and moron or some such thing.

Probably some nice person will come along and tell me there's a greasemonkey script for super-secret comment marking, which might finally motivate me to start using greasemonkey.
posted by stefanie at 9:56 PM on February 14

I think if you want your "favorites" to be private you can bookmark them to del.icio.us or just write them down on a piece of paper, no?
posted by jessamyn at 10:13 PM on February 14 [3 favorites]

I could, but that wouldn't solve the problem of people being rewarded for leaving crap like this.
posted by Dave Faris at 10:21 PM on February 14

Dave, I think you meant to link to this, no?
posted by allkindsoftime at 10:24 PM on February 14

No. Hermitosis' message is harmless. Jonmc's is an example of abhorrent behavior that is rewarded, encouraged, and perpetuated by visible favorites.
posted by Dave Faris at 10:29 PM on February 14

Jonmc's is an example of abhorrent behavior that is rewarded, encouraged, and perpetuated by visible favorites.

I disagree.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:37 PM on February 14 [1 favorite]

The comment that johnmc posted was a satirical statement about an awful blog that was at best a grotesquely insensitive plea for massive amounts of attention and at worst and most probable viral advertising of the most amoral sort which has since been rightfully taken down by it's hosting company. It was an offensive statement against something that was inherently deeply offensive.
posted by louche mustachio at 12:06 AM on February 15 [1 favorite]

Fighting fire with fire, as it were. Not really abhorrent from my vantage point.

Also, its hosting company.
posted by louche mustachio at 12:09 AM on February 15

That last favorite of mine? That's right, I did it so that
posted by From Bklyn at 12:53 AM on February 15

The whole favorite system was a bad idea from the beginning. It almost certainly should not be public, since the counts encourage idiocy, and the chosen iconography (+) suggests approval, which is a bad idea, too.

Nevertheless, it is part of the site, and my favorites are awesome. It would be ridiculous to clutter things up with Yet Another Thing To Click On just because you're embarassed or whatever.
posted by blacklite at 12:53 AM on February 15

I like the favorite system the way it is.
posted by grouse at 1:28 AM on February 15

Hermitosis' message is harmless.

I know. I was joking.
posted by allkindsoftime at 3:03 AM on February 15

Is this where I come to say how I did on the "most favorited" flash game?

Actually, I'd like this feature, for two reasons:

1) to help me deal with the "what I liked" (the MeFi community aspect) v. "What I want to come back and look at 'cause I don't have time now" (the MeFi usefulness aspect)

2) It'd be interesting to compare how the numbers run up on certain posts/comments, or by certain people.

Maybe the "I wanna check back here" list would be invisible, except the number per post. (Is that like Digg? I honestly have been to digg only once)
posted by not_on_display at 5:49 AM on February 15

(Not that this hasn't been suggested about a billion times before. And Matt's chosen to ignore the suggestion a billion times before. So, really, what's the point? It's a flawed implementation, but we're stuck with it.)

That's why I suggested leaving it alone and simply re-using the code to add a private system. One more table, one more item under a post and comment, everyone gets to keep using their faves as they like and we eliminate this tempest in a teapot from coming up over and over again.

And c'mon, 'clutter?' Would the transition from [!][+] to [!][+][R] be that painful?
posted by phearlez at 6:45 AM on February 15

ThePinkSuperhero: "'And we can finally stop talking about what favorites are 'for.' They're not FOR anything. They're for whatever you want them to be for. Changing what they're called would not change what people use them for."

Disagree. The whole continuing problem here is arguably that people are being asked to bookmark something but name it a favorite. If there were "favorites" and also "bookmarks" we would not have this issue constantly arising. The entire planet relies on useful naming conventions; I don't get why it's acceptable to expect that MetaFilter should just be able to "deal with it."

jessamyn: "I think if you want your "favorites" to be private you can bookmark them to del.icio.us or just write them down on a piece of paper, no?"

Yeah, you could. I think that's also folly. "Dear MeFites: we don't care about your need for this particular functionality, and therefore you are to use another website in order to make this one work for you. OR you need to write things like "http://metatalk.metafilter.com/15775/Raising-the-level#511276" down on pieces of paper by your desk. Also, be sure to stay by your desk; if you use the site from not-your-desk, good luck."

Don't get me wrong; if the answer to phearlez's question is, "No, you can't have it, we were tricksy on purpose, it's going to stay that way, and everyone needs to just shut the hell up about it already," that's fine (and let's get that into the Wiki or on top of MeTa or something so that it doesn't come up every freakin day).

I just don't think it's fair to frame that response as "There's something else that you can do that works JUST AS GOOD!!!"

blacklite: "It would be ridiculous to clutter things up with Yet Another Thing To Click On just because you're embarassed or whatever."

Disagree. I think it's ridiculous to clutter up our profiles with all that Twitter and Flicker business. If I wanted to interact with you people on every other website in the world, I wouldn't need to come here. But I realize that not everyone agrees with me, and that different users have different opinions on what makes the site better.

Unfortunately, this seems to be an issue that LOTS of users have, if the constant discussion about it is any indicator. So it's not just "one more thing to clutter the site," and shouldn't be dismissed as such.

As I said the other day: "Protest all you like that Favorites are meant to be just bookmarks -- they're used equally as applause here if not more, and they mean something or else they wouldn't appear publicly, they wouldn't aggregate, they wouldn't appear in Contact Activity, and they wouldn't indicate alpha users)."
posted by pineapple at 6:46 AM on February 15 [1 favorite]

No, you can't have it, we were tricksy on purpose, it's going to stay that way, and everyone needs to just shut the hell up about it already," that's fine (and let's get that into the Wiki or on top of MeTa or something so that it doesn't come up every freakin day).

I don't get to make the final call about it, but it seems like something that's not in the immediate queue for implementation. If someone feels like they want to put a list of "times this has been asked for and times it has not been forthcoming" in the wiki, they're welcome to. I don't understand what's "tricksy" about saying that the current system seems to work pretty well for most people, just like the flagging system which also comes up a lot in MeTa [usually in a "why don't we have a flag for _____________ ?" and a callout about a particular thread or comment].

The usual way things go in Meta is that people make a decent case for what they want, we all see if there's some consensus brewing around a particular shift, we try to weigh the downsides of making a chance [in site reaction, general noise level, admin headaches, peopel happier, people sadder] and one of the things we think about is whether thins is something where the implementation sort of needs to be something rolled out to all users to do what needs doing i.e. the socil stuff, if you don't like it that's fine but there's a network effect when the mefites who do use it all use it together. Another example is "follow up by the original poster" indicator in AskMe where you could do something with greasemonkey but then it wouldn't have utility for other users of the site.

However, this proposal is basically, if I'm reading it right, about forking the favorites system into two systems, a tracker system and the same old favoriting system. This is supposed to solve the popularity contest that people feel the favoriting system enables. However, my take is that adding a tracking system when most people will still use the favorites system doesn't do ANYTHING to fix this because most people will still use what they know, a subset of people will use the new thing and we'll still have this argument. So, unless we're discussing ditching favorites entirely, it's unclear what problem there is to be solved by a tracking system that users can, but don't have to, use. This is because, we'll still have the favoriting system. Perhaps it will be more clear that favorites is really a +1 and not a "follow this" but I'd suggest people will just use it like they always have and it wil still be unclear.

We went through a long time here in MeTa where we worked on trying to adjust the number of AskMe questions that were racing across the front page. It seemed like the MeTa question that never ended. We rejiggered the time between questions, we looked into other options, we did a ton of stuff. At the end of it, and a lot of MeTa discussions, we put it back to the way it was and the question that was everyone's favorite MeTa debate sort of went away at some point. It's weird to me now that we just don't talk about it anymore. We've been talking about this topic lately, and flagging, and we'll probably try some things.

I'm not being tricksy and I don't think del.icio.us is "just as good" I'm just saying that I'm not sensing that this problem is as widespread as you're making it out to be and I don't think overhauling favorites is likely to be realistic or likely to work. We will continue to have problems in a forked favorites universe, in my opinion.
posted by jessamyn at 7:07 AM on February 15

we don't care about your need for this particular functionality,

No one needs this functionality. As a side note, I find your entitled attitude and the "I am going to make up quotes to rephrase what you said in the nastiest possible way" technique in this comment somewhat obnoxious.

You should seriously try del.icio.us. It solves this problem not only on MetaFilter, but on ALL web sites.

you need to write things like "http://metatalk.metafilter.com/15775/Raising-the-level#511276" down on pieces of paper by your desk

PROTIP: You only need to write down the 15775. The 511276 if you really can't remember or find the comment in context.
posted by grouse at 7:10 AM on February 15

I'm not a fan of the forking solution. Just rename Favorites. You'll be able to do the exact same things with them, but it'll be more obvious that they're not meant to be used solely as marks of applause. You won't get comments like "What's more upsetting is that Derek marked that as a favorite comment."

A whole bunch of sites (like YouTube) have comment-rating features that are entirely divorced from bookmarking. Conflating them is hugely confusing from a UI perspective. If we've gotta keep them conflated, at least emphasize the bookmarking aspect rather than the comment-ranking aspect.
posted by painquale at 7:52 AM on February 15

I hate the favorites system and think it rewards bad behavior. If they were truly meant to keep track of things, they would be invisible to everyone but the person logged in. If one wishes to compare it to the flag system, how about making the flag system visible? Then people can not only track how funny they think they are, but they can then also pat themselves on the back for getting more flags than others too. Yay!
posted by terrapin at 7:55 AM on February 15

Waiter, could you take this plate of beans away? It's way overthought and getting rancid.

THERE IS NO PROBLEM WITH THE FAVORITE SYSTEM. If it's changed, just as many people will bitch and moan about the changed system. If it's taken away altogether, people will bitch and moan about that. All you people who think there's a simple fix that will make everything neat-o, you're wrong. Everybody wants My Own Private MetaFilter, but there's only one MetaFilter for everyone, so it's not going to please anyone completely. Suck it up.
posted by languagehat at 8:02 AM on February 15 [1 favorite]

Actually, I wish I could see how many times people have been flagged, too. I also wish I could look into my neighbors' windows while remaining invisible.
posted by not_on_display at 8:06 AM on February 15

Using all caps makes it truthier.
posted by Dave Faris at 8:10 AM on February 15

Oh go choke on a shiny, languagehat. If you think this is a bad idea or don't care that much one way or the other, why don't you just say so straight and civilly instead of reverting to the old, pompous Grand Dismissive and Condescending Tone of the Hat ©.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 8:12 AM on February 15

It is my way. The way of the Hat. Also, it's truthier.
posted by languagehat at 8:12 AM on February 15

Oh well. languagehat has ruled. I guess the rest of the community should just go home and suck it up as he so eloquently put it.

Nothing to see here, people. Your opinion doesn't matter.

Time to close the thread.
posted by terrapin at 8:14 AM on February 15

grouse: "we don't care about your need for this particular functionality" "No one needs this functionality."

You are absolutely entitled to that opinion. I see the "favorites: bookmarks or applause?" as being something that is discussed in MeTa constantly. If I'm wrong about that perception, and it's really not something that comes up a lot, fine. And, "need" is subjective, of course; no one needed favorites the first time. No one needed MefiMail. We got them anyway, because someone on the back end decided there was a business case for it. You want to make this a semantic game, that's fine, but I perceive there to be consistent, frequent noise about "favorites: bookmarks or applause?" in MeTa, from the users. In my world, that is a group of users indicating a need for a different functionality. You can feel free to call it something else.

grouse: "As a side note, I find your entitled attitude and the "I am going to make up quotes to rephrase what you said in the nastiest possible way" technique in this comment somewhat obnoxious."

I don't know which of my paraphrasings you meant. I said:

"Dear MeFites: we don't care about your need for this particular functionality, and therefore you are to use another website in order to make this one work for you. OR you need to write things like [long string] down on pieces of paper by your desk. Also, be sure to stay by your desk; if you use the site from not-your-desk, good luck.... There's something else that you can do that works JUST AS GOOD!!!"

-- and that's exactly how Jessamyn's comment scanned, to me. I was sharing my take on it, not ascribing nasty motives. That's why I didn't paraphrase her as having said, "And, also... FUCK Y'ALL!"

I find it silly that your position is to assume that I'm trying to be hurtful or hateful. This is a conversation about a feature request.

The other paraphrase I made was "No, you can't have it, we were tricksy on purpose, it's going to stay that way, and everyone needs to just shut the hell up about it already." And again, that's exactly how I perceive the collective response of the Body Admin to this issue when it comes up. Matt is on record repeatedly as not wanting to state any clear singular purpose for favorites, isn't he? The admins constantly say, "It's whatever you want them to be," don't they? Sorry if you took offense that I referred to that as "tricksy", but that position in the face of repeated requests for clarification sure seems fairly coy and unhelpful to me. I thought "tricksy" was a rather gentle way to say, "'Use them for whatever you want' isn't very helpful."

grouse: "You should seriously try del.icio.us. It solves this problem not only on MetaFilter, but on ALL web sites."

Okay. If I get to the point where I've got free time to use a second website to manage one-off interest about the comments and questions I read on a general-interest community blog, I'll sure check that out. In the meantime, it suits my own needs best to support a feature suggestion made here in MeTa that would improve my own user experience. Jessamyn said herself that when this stuff comes up, they listen to what the users have to say. That's what I'm doing: I'm trying to participate in making a case for a feature change that would improve my own MetaFilter experience. I expect you or anyone else to do the same -- but I'm not sure why it has to be so emotionally wrought. "Entitled attitude"? Seriously? Because I'm a user of a website, chiming in with support for a feature suggestion in the exact place on the website where feature suggestions get discussed? How foolish of me. </sarcasm> (In other words, I think it's rude of you to accuse me of entitlement)

I have never understood why this kind of thing gets taken so personally here. I didn't say, "Jessamyn isn't meeting my needs and that makes her emotionally cruel and diabolical, and she's clearly out to get me." I'm sorry for anyone that read that in my words. I was trying to say, "I don't find 'use another website, end of statement' to be a particularly helpful response to the question 'can we make a change at this website.'"

Jessamyn said:

"However, my take is that adding a tracking system when most people will still use the favorites system doesn't do ANYTHING to fix this because most people will still use what they know, a subset of people will use the new thing and we'll still have this argument. So, unless we're discussing ditching favorites entirely, it's unclear what problem there is to be solved by a tracking system that users can, but don't have to, use."

I disagree, and think this seems specious. Is MefiMail somehow made less useful because "not everyone uses it"? And why would we "still have the argument" once an obvious solution has been added? How could someone rightfully still complain that they don't understand what Favorites mean when there's also a Bookmark option? And, no one has to use Favorites now, so I don't get the argument that we have to solve for all users when technically, only a subset use Favorites as is.

languagehat said: "THERE IS NO PROBLEM WITH THE FAVORITE SYSTEM."

THAT IS ONE OPINION, AND IT DIFFERS FROM MINE.

languagehat said: "Everybody wants My Own Private MetaFilter, but there's only one MetaFilter for everyone, so it's not going to please anyone completely. Suck it up."

Right, then why is there a feature request section in MeTa at all? Why even bother allowing people to make feature requests?

If Matt makes a decisive statement, "We're never going to change it, and stop asking," that's one thing, and at that point I'll sure "suck it up", never to speak of this again. Close the thread, shut 'er down, and put a sign on the door.

But in the meantime, I don't get this backlash against people who are using the Feature Request category exactly as it's intended. Tell me I'm stupid for being interested in a Favorites + Bookmarks system... but don't suggest I'm stupid for asking or participating in the discussion about its value.
posted by pineapple at 8:14 AM on February 15 [1 favorite]

not_on_display: You wouldn't be able to see anything while invisible though because the light wouldn't enter your pupil and get focused on your retina. :(

Also, eponysterical.
posted by ODiV at 8:17 AM on February 15

I think you can get greasemonkey to change the word "favorite" into "bookmark". :P
posted by ODiV at 8:20 AM on February 15

While I know we're in the midst of the standard knee-jerk reaction to this particular pony request, I'd like to futilely add my support anyways.

Put simply: I don't really favorite a lot of things right now, because I don't like the value judgement in it. Yes, you can argue that I can use it for whatever I want. That doesn't change the fact that it's called "favorites", not "things I'd like to keep track of", and so using for the latter makes me feel like people will misconstrue my action as tacit support of whatever it is I'm tagging.

Regardless of whether the favorites-as-motivation-for-behavior is in fact an enormous problem, I still feel that the public nature of favorites, and that implied value judgement, make them a poor choice for managing what are really more like bookmarks.

Is it really a big deal to me? No. Would I use it a private favorites-like system it were implemented? Sure. And really, if that's the case for a non-trivial amount of users, and if the overall impact on the site is negligible (and I believe it would be), what's the harm in considering the feature?
posted by tocts at 8:20 AM on February 15

pineapple, when you take other people's opinions and twist them into loaded formulations like "Dear MeFites: we don't care about your need for this particular functionality" and "we were tricksy on purpose," what you're really saying is "I am too obnoxious to discuss these things in a civil or reasonable way."

Oh, you didn't like the reformulation of your opinion? Or the claims about your internal state? Huh, imagine that. But, hey, this is exactly how your comment scanned, to me. I'm just sharing my take on it, you can't blame me for that, right?

If you have time to write enormous comments like the ones in this thread, you definitely have time to try out del.icio.us. Once you try it, you'll wonder why you ever spent so much effort on this.
posted by grouse at 8:30 AM on February 15

You just got that from Planetary, ODiV.

Okay, okay, that's where I got it. But fish gotta swim, and I gotta cast aspersions.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 8:32 AM on February 15

I only use the Favorites feature to give approval. I never use it to track anything.
posted by smackfu at 8:36 AM on February 15

"If you have time to write enormous comments like the ones in this thread,"

I do -- because I care to take the time to weigh in once on a feature request. Sure hope you can see the difference between that and changing the overall pattern of my site usage.

"I'm just sharing my take on it, you can't blame me for that, right?"

I sure can't. And how your take makes you look to others reading this thread is on you, just like the risk of how people might read my take is on me. I can certainly live with mine.

"claims about your internal state"

Oh, is that what you're calling insults these days? (Because I don't see how straight-up calling me obnoxious is anything other than an insult.)
posted by pineapple at 8:38 AM on February 15

You should seriously try del.icio.us. It solves this problem not only on MetaFilter, but on ALL web sites.

No, what it does is serve the purpose of bookmarking.

The problem is that people get bent out of shape over favorites because of the value judgment in the word.

Perhaps I was unclear, or people are responding to others rather than my original complaint. I have del.icio.us and a utility that syncs my bookmarks across the four different computers I use - there's no tracking ability lacking in my life. I am not proposing the addition of bookmarks because I feel like I need the functionality.

What I would like is to remove what seems to be a continuous source of confusion and consternation, as well as make what's supposed to be a useful utility a little more usable for some people.

We've gone beyond talk about the feature in Metatalk to now seeing people in general discussions indicate a personal judgment based on what someone has favorited. Tocts says sometimes s/he doesn't use the feature because of the implied approval. We can talk about what Should be and how people Shouldn't react to certain things and what they Should understand, or we can live in the real world and examine the way things actually are playing out. And it is an unarguable reality that people are projecting value on favorites and reacting to them thusly, as well as repeatedly returning to this discussion.

I suggested the fork because it's easy (as much as any software change on a heavily used production system ever is), doesn't alter the existing system so that languagehat doesn't have to YELL AT ME, and removes some ambiguity.

Maybe jess is right and nothing would change. However I think the comments of several people above (as well as past metatalk threads) would counter that position and indicate that there's some demand for a 'release valve' on the favorites. If another small button immediately next to the + with mouse-over help of "track this item privately" wouldn't be an obvious enough alternative then I don't know what would.

If the answer is no, fine, I just wanted to suggest this as something that (to me as a software developer) seemed like a pretty quick & efficient potential solution that wouldn't involve changing an existing system and creating the kind of "I liked it better the old way!" back and forth that the AskMe question pacing did.
posted by phearlez at 8:52 AM on February 15

Hey, it's not an insult, it's just "sharing my take" on your comments. I'm not really saying you're obnoxious, I'm just saying that when you say the things you actually said, what it says to me is "I, pineapple, am behaving in an obnoxious way." I'll put that in quotes even though you didn't say it.
posted by grouse at 8:52 AM on February 15

grouse: "Hey, it's not an insult, it's just "sharing my take" on your comments. I'm not really saying you're obnoxious, I'm just saying that when you say the things you actually said, what it says to me is "I, pineapple, am behaving in an obnoxious way." I'll put that in quotes even though you didn't say it."

And as I've already stated, I'm absolutely fine with that. That you need to continue to find a loophole for calling me names really isn't about me.

Nor does it have much to do with the topic about a modification to the favorites feature, so maybe you'll want to take it to mail.
posted by pineapple at 8:57 AM on February 15

That you need to continue to find a loophole for calling me names really isn't about me.

You just did it again. Hilarious.
posted by grouse at 9:00 AM on February 15

If there's some sort of confusion about what favorites are about, I don't think another feature is going to fix anything. More features = more confusion = more whiny Metatalk threads.

Wait, never mind, I support any and all new features completely!
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:05 AM on February 15 [1 favorite]

more whiny Metatalk threads

More than now?
posted by pineapple at 9:16 AM on February 15

A girl can dream.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:20 AM on February 15 [1 favorite]

Jeepers. I have enough trouble distringuishing between the Favorites link vs. the My Favorites (new!) tab vs. the other My Favorites tab, vs. the Recent Favorites tab. I understand what Popular Favorites are, but of course, there's the Popular Favorites link and the Popular Favorites tab. And that's just the Blue, of course, never mind the AskMe My Favorites and Popular Favorites and MeTa MyFavorites and Popular Favorites tabs. Admittedly, I'm a Plain Theme user, so the subsites tend to blur together more for me than for those enjoying the technicolor mefi experience. Still, Favorites isn't just a single horn, lovingly carved on what would otherwise be a wooden sculpture of a horse, it's a freakin' rack of antlers. Adding more sharp, pokey bits can't possibly be the answer.

And yet, I feel your pain, because I tend to favorite comments as a vote, and favorite posts as a bookmark, but occasionally I do want to bookmark a comment for future reference, and it gets lost in all the noise of voting. Meh.
posted by mumkin at 10:03 AM on February 15

Instead of "My Favorites", it should more accurately be called "Not Your Favorites", or "MYOFB", to make it clear that other people's choices are not meant to be yours.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:06 AM on February 15

so that languagehat doesn't have to YELL AT ME,

Hey, I wasn't yelling at you (and certainly not at pineapple—pineapple is one of my favorite fruits!), I just get irritated when the same damn subject comes up for the thousandth time and yell into the void. Don't mind me, I'm crotchety.
posted by languagehat at 10:13 AM on February 15

I wish I had an OED so I could find out if "crotchety" is derived from "crotch" .
posted by smackfu at 10:35 AM on February 15

No, it means (in the OED's words) "Given to crotchets," and the relevant sense of crotchet "A small hook" (from French crochet 'hook') is:

9. a. A whimsical fancy; a perverse conceit; a peculiar notion on some point (usually considered unimportant) held by an individual in opposition to common opinion.
The original of this sense is obscure: it is nearly synonymous with CRANK n.2, senses 3 and 4, and might, like it, have the radical notion of ‘mental twist or crook’; but Cotgrave appears to connect it with the musical note, sense 7: ‘Crochue, a Quauer in Musicke; whence Il a des crochues en teste, (we say) his head is full of crochets’: cf. also 7b ["A fanciful device, mechanical, artistic, or literary"].
1573 G. HARVEY Letter-bk. (Camden) 46 M. Osburn stud uppon this chrotchet, that he had bene ons there alreddi, and therefore, etc. 1587 HARRISON England II. xxii. I. 339 All the od crochets in such a builder's braine. 1603 SHAKES. Meas. for M. III. ii. 135. 1621-51 BURTON Anat. Mel. I. iii. I. ii. 187 That castle in the ayr, that crochet, that whimsie. [...] 1861 M. ARNOLD Pop. Educ. France 165 Opinions which have no ground in reason.. mere crotchets, or mere prejudices.
posted by languagehat at 10:55 AM on February 15 [1 favorite]

Oops, I copied the definition for 9b; 7 is: "A symbol for a note of half the value of a minim, made in the form of a stem with a round (formerly lozenge-shaped) black head; a note of this value."
posted by languagehat at 10:56 AM on February 15

languagehat's crotch aside, the real key here is that Matt either disagrees that there's a problem, or chooses to ignore it. So, we continue, round and round the cobbler's bench.
posted by Dave Faris at 11:00 AM on February 15

If favorites were to go private it would be a lot harder for me to keep up with longer threads on this site. Favorites are a great way to pull out the best, most relevant posts and threads with 200+ comments, kind of like Metafilter Cliffsnotes. I never would have bothered with the Holden threads, or many other pertinent MetaTalk or MetaFilter threads if I didn't have the ability to scan them and pick out the comments that were selected as the most relevant by other members of this community. If that were the case I would have even less of and idea of what everyone is talking about, and I'm a daily MetaFilter reader. I don't always navigate threads by reading only the favorites, but it helps when one comes late to any of the longer threads.

What I'm saying is that favorites add a functionality to the site that make it easier for me to participate as a member with a finite amount of free time. I would have a harder time maintaining my membership without it.

That said, I still use my personal favorites as a bookmarking system of things that I might need to see later, either for information or a good chuckle. I resist saying 'amen' to most of the best comments just because they would clutter up my favorites page. Would it be so bad if we split the functionality into two different categories, a set of bookmarks on one hand, and a chance to highlight good comments on the other? It seems like the current favorites system is serving both purposes.
posted by Alison at 3:03 PM on February 15 [1 favorite]

I come here not to praise favorites but to bury them February 14, 2008 8:24 PM Subscribe

I come here not to praise favorites but to bury them
February 14, 2008 8:24 PM Subscribe