It's a penis; get over it.

August 12, 2009 10:12 PM

Can we please stop the "Why hasn't it been deleted?" thread shitting in the penis post.

It's been up for a good 14 hours now which includes a complete EST/PST business day. Considering mathowie, cortex, vacapinta, and jessamyn have all commented since it was posted it seems extremely unlikely the mods won't have considered it for deletion by now and have decided to leave it up.

posted by Mitheral to Etiquette/Policy at 10:12 PM (208 comments total)

I agree wolehheartedly, except for Iamkimiam's, which is a dickens of a double entendre.
posted by dirtdirt at 10:16 PM on August 12, 2009 [2 favorites]

I guess what I'm saying is you better have some fucking octopus legs penis or I don't even know why you posted this.
posted by turgid dahlia at 10:24 PM on August 12, 2009 [1 favorite]

I am waiting for the epic of the penis too.

It will span centuries and continents and it will have passion, humor, struggle and conflict. It will enlighten us all with a renewed and invigorated appreciation of the sweep of human experience.
posted by longsleeves at 10:34 PM on August 12, 2009 [1 favorite]

Why is Mitheral so interested in Brandon Blatcher's penis........................................................................
....................................................................................................................................................
....................................................................................................................................................
....................................................................................................................................................
....................................................................................................................................................
....................................................................................................................................................
....................................................................................................................................................
...............................................................................................................................................post?
posted by crossoverman at 10:40 PM on August 12, 2009 [1 favorite]

Huh? Was our 'thread shitting' disrupting the eloquent discourse that was going on in that thread? Were we derailing something? I must've missed it.

I think we were seriously scratching our heads (well, me, just the one) wondering why/how this post stuck around for so long. It is a total crap post, with crappy links to general info sites. The only thing interesting about it is, hey, penises! And so we're all making the most of it while we can. I seriously believe that if it was a post about any other subject linking to equivalents of those sites, it would have been gone by now. Also, I have to wonder what many MeFites from other countries/cultures must be thinking..."Wow, those Americans sure are weird about sex and their bodies*."

Also, 'thread shitting'? You missed a wonderful opportunity for euphemistic pleasure right there!

*And healthcare.
posted by iamkimiam at 10:47 PM on August 12, 2009 [2 favorites]

Burhanistan writes "it's not some kind of epic post that needs defending."

I'm not defending the thread. I'm calling out what should be unacceptable behaviour. If you feel it shouldn't be on the front page you have four choices:

1. Close the tab and ignore it.
2. Flag it and move on.
3. Contact the mods.
4. Bring it to Meta.

Rudely derailing the thread with something that should be in meta isn't acceptable.

turgid dahlia writes "I guess what I'm saying is you better have some fucking octopus legs penis or I don't even know why you posted this."

Considering the great size range of octopuses (from a couple centimetres to several metres) and that their penises are formed by one of their arms I'm sure one of them is comparable. Fortunately the equivalence ends there and mine isn't detachable or self mobile.
posted by Mitheral at 10:49 PM on August 12, 2009 [1 favorite]

I love that it's already known as "the penis post".
posted by iconomy at 10:49 PM on August 12, 2009 [1 favorite]

It would nice if people didn't crack jokes 'bout me regarding this post, thanks.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:50 PM on August 12, 2009 [1 favorite]

[this comment deleted for not being dispassionate enough]
posted by wfrgms at 10:50 PM on August 12, 2009 [1 favorite]

let's face it - half of hipsterdom has a penis and the other half wants one

that automatically makes it too dull to post about
posted by pyramid termite at 10:55 PM on August 12, 2009 [1 favorite]

Brandon, I'm sorry to be so harsh about your post. I saw it this morning and I thought, "Cool! This could be a fun thing to start my day and learn about!"...but...the links just weren't good. :(

I think it's absolutely shitty of anyone to pass judgment or make comments or jokes about you...totally unacceptable behavior. What, are we all 12?

Also, you just reminded me of how I felt when I've had posts deleted, or people have ripped my shit apart here. It truly sucks, and so I'm sorry for being so flippant.
posted by iamkimiam at 11:01 PM on August 12, 2009 [1 favorite]

If a post doesn't get many flags and we aren't otherwise notified about it from someone, there's a fairly good chance we won't see it or at least won't give it a careful look.

Having taken a careful look now, I'm not overwhelmed by the post in the least but I'm also not seeing what's awful about it and I'm wondering if there's some context I'm missing that'd justify the "stunt" label.

Regardless, as far as repeatedly complaining in-thread about the continued existence of a post that's been up for not minutes but hours already, Mitheral's four points up there are pretty much spot on. I don't think this is new information to anyone in this thread, either. It'd be nice if folks could try to stick to those.

[this comment deleted for not being dispassionate enough]

wfrgms, if you're going to refuse to participate in Metatalk discussions about your on-site behavior, please have the good courtesy to not try and draw attention to your grievances about same in random threads. We've got basically no incentive to try and talk to you about it here since you've made an explicit point of not holding up your end of the conversation in the past, so hit us up on the contact form if you need to or just go ahead and can it.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:06 PM on August 12, 2009 [3 favorites]

Less penii, more octopi, please.
posted by UbuRoivas at 11:13 PM on August 12, 2009 [1 favorite]

Also, I have to wonder what many MeFites from other countries/cultures must be thinking...
We don't think, we just robotically obey the commands of our communist overlords in return for free healthcare.
posted by Abiezer at 11:16 PM on August 12, 2009 [22 favorites]

We don't think, we just robotically obey the commands of our communist overlords in return for free healthcare.

that's because the deathboards will delay your ration of health care if you don't obey the antichrist
posted by pyramid termite at 11:30 PM on August 12, 2009 [5 favorites]

I saw it this morning and I thought, "Cool! This could be a fun thing to start my day and learn about!"...but...the links just weren't good. :(

1. Yeah I got it, you didn't like the post.

2. The post wasn't made to be fun thing.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:31 PM on August 12, 2009 [2 favorites]

Can we please stop the "Why hasn't it been deleted?" thread shitting in the penis post.

Not to be an asshole, but shouldn't that be "please stop pissing in the penis post?
posted by KokuRyu at 11:32 PM on August 12, 2009 [4 favorites]

Sheesh, I kind of wish I hadn't clicked on that dude's profile. MeFi Brownshirts and damning to hell indeed. Jesus Christ in a chicken basket.
posted by lazaruslong at 11:33 PM on August 12, 2009 [1 favorite]

Octopodes.
posted by pompomtom at 12:07 AM on August 13, 2009 [2 favorites]

Is this where we talk about penises?
posted by The Whelk at 3:04 AM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

Jesus Christ in a chicken basket.

Oddly enough, I think that's on the menu at Popeye's here in the south.

It's divine.

I'm so sorry.
posted by empyrean at 3:43 AM on August 13, 2009 [8 favorites]

Is this where we talk about cephalopods?
posted by grapefruitmoon at 3:56 AM on August 13, 2009 [3 favorites]

2. The post wasn't made to be fun thing.

Which makes it seems stunty, aka an inside joke between you and someone who is not "the MeFi community at large" Only you know if that's what you're doing, but if it is what you're doing it would be nice if you wouldn't do that. Otherwise I'm with cortex, no idea why people find this sort of thread-shitting fun and/or appropriate.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 4:00 AM on August 13, 2009 [3 favorites]

Man, everyone is arising early today.
posted by The Whelk at 4:03 AM on August 13, 2009 [2 favorites]

What the hell are you doing up? This time of day is supposed to be my daily window of belligerence.
posted by gman at 4:05 AM on August 13, 2009 [3 favorites]

I'm on a family vacation on the easternmost point of the continental US. The sun rises here first. Any other smart questions?
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 4:09 AM on August 13, 2009 [3 favorites]

Did you like the penis post?
posted by gman at 4:11 AM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

Yeah, I generally hate the "Why hasn't x been deleted" comments. Presumptuous much? Dickish, uh, a lot? Ok, we get it. You're a spoiled piece of shit who's used to getting your way. You're entitled to your opinions. You may even be entitled to have mommy and daddy pay your way through school. You're not entitled to controlling my MetaFilter experience.

Why weren't you aborted already?
posted by Eideteker at 4:22 AM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

Did you like the penis post?

Not particularly, no. That said, we have a lot of sort of "blah" posts on various topics that don't rise to the level of deleteworthy, though usually they're made by members we don't know super well. Brandon Blatcher says it's not a stunt post and I guess I have to believe him. It seems more like a post made to make a point rather than "oh I think this would be a good post for MetaFilter" but Brandon Blatcher doesn't seem to want to explain it, so this is what we've got.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 4:27 AM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

We don't think, we just robotically obey the commands of our communist overlords in return for free healthcare.

I can't help but imagine the sick and infirmed queueing up for placement at a gloryhole where an anonymous robot puts a pill in your butt. Sounds like my kind of healthcare!
posted by Cat Pie Hurts at 4:59 AM on August 13, 2009 [2 favorites]

MetaFilter: We have a lot of sort of "blah" posts on various topics.
posted by RussHy at 5:14 AM on August 13, 2009 [3 favorites]

WTF wfrgms?

If I were a mod I'd drop the banhammer just for that profile screed.

Why do you hang out with people you hate dude?
posted by fourcheesemac at 5:34 AM on August 13, 2009 [8 favorites]

MetaFilter: a lot of sort of "blah" posts on various topics that don't rise to the level of deleteworthy
posted by DU at 5:38 AM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

MetaFilter: I should have read the rest of the comments to see if someone already made this joke.
posted by DU at 5:39 AM on August 13, 2009 [3 favorites]

I also don't get the "this is dumb, delete this" comments in the post. FIAMO, etc.

And that profile is the whiniest thing I've seen in a really long time. Yeesh.

But I haven't had much coffee yet so what do I know.
posted by rtha at 5:45 AM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

wifrigums, you can always take a break from the site. Trust me, it really helps.
posted by mediareport at 5:59 AM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

wifrigums, you can always take a break from the site

Stop censoring his time.
posted by DU at 6:10 AM on August 13, 2009 [4 favorites]

Dude, two months on the rest of the internets and he'll be crawling back.
posted by mediareport at 6:14 AM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

It seems more like a post made to make a point...
posted by jessamyn at 7:27 AM on August 13

An a rather blunt one at that.

Get it? Do you get it? YES WE GOT IT.
posted by Pastabagel at 6:16 AM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

I'm on a family vacation on the easternmost point of the continental US. The sun rises here first. Any other smart questions?
posted by jessamyn at 7:09 AM on August 13

Does the weather get particularly bad there? Can you see any interesting animals like whales or dolphins? I've never seen a whale in real life. What's the sky like at night.? Can you see the band of the Milky Way.

I work in an office. The sun never rises. Or sets. There are no whales either. Just vultures.
posted by Pastabagel at 6:20 AM on August 13, 2009 [3 favorites]

wfrgms, you seem to have a personal opinion about how the site should run that is at odds with how the site does run. You are welcome to not participate here but if you have a beef with me personally or how I do my job I'd suggest taking it up with mathowie directly.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:26 AM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

I think we were seriously scratching our heads (well, me, just the one) wondering why/how this post stuck around for so long.

And that's the problem with flagging: no feedback. It's like raising your hand in class and not being called on, and then later on the teacher says "ok, we'll review this because apparently a lot of people had questions on it".

Everyone could follow Mitherals' step 3, "Contact the mods", and get a response I'm sure, but I don't really think the mods want to be writing answers to everyone. Maybe I'm wrong about that.
posted by smackfu at 6:27 AM on August 13, 2009 [2 favorites]

People hating on wfrgms's profile page - you are missing the point.

And the point is to play a new game I just invented, which is to make a front page post using only a user's Top 10 Tags on MeFi. For wfrgms, it would be

"Handmade artisanal hipster wallets and fixed gear bicycles." I would favorite that post

I don't mean to pick on you, wfrgms.
posted by Pastabagel at 6:27 AM on August 13, 2009 [3 favorites]

And that's the problem with flagging: no feedback.

No kidding. I always end up choosing "violates site guidelines". A little textfield, or at least more options, would be nice.

Bad Idea Moment: Every post should be tabbed. The first tab is comments, the second tab is complaints.
posted by DU at 6:43 AM on August 13, 2009 [5 favorites]

The best one is HTML error, because mods always read that one.
posted by smackfu at 6:44 AM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

You're one to talk, "oil psychiatrist china children chicken cheney buckethead bonds bipolar batshitinsane."
posted by yhbc at 6:44 AM on August 13, 2009 [2 favorites]

No kidding. I always end up choosing "violates site guidelines".

That's really the only flag choice for bad posts. And it's clearly not enough when cortex posts something like:

I'm not overwhelmed by the post in the least but I'm also not seeing what's awful about it and I'm wondering if there's some context I'm missing that'd justify the "stunt" label.

"Flag it and move on" doesn't work too well if the mods don't know why you are flagging it.
posted by smackfu at 6:56 AM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

Everyone commenting about wfrgms' profile is part of the cabal.
There is no cabal / NOT CABAL-IST.

FWIW, I thought The Penis Post was weak, but not weak enough to flag. Pissing in the thread is weaker still.
posted by notashroom at 7:00 AM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

Brandon Blatcher says it's not a stunt post and I guess I have to believe him. It seems more like a post made to make a point rather than "oh I think this would be a good post for MetaFilter" but Brandon Blatcher doesn't seem to want to explain it, so this is what we've got.

What are you talking about? Nobody asked for an explanation and I missed the requirement that every post be explained. Sorry my history of making stunt posts confused you.

As to the "point" of the post: Somebody, not a Mefite, sent me the Life Cycle of a Penis link, as a guy approaching 40 I thought it was interesting, looked around for more information and made a post with the idea "can't recall a post about the biology of the penis, might be neat to make". Were jokes about the post expected? Sure, but they weren't the point, and was hoping more interesting discussion would come from it, but hey them's the breaks.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:04 AM on August 13, 2009 [6 favorites]

You know what's more interesting than penises?

Beer pong.
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 7:08 AM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

Does anyone else pronounce wfrgms as "RalfWiggums"?
posted by exogenous at 7:09 AM on August 13, 2009 [2 favorites]

"Flag it and move on" doesn't work too well if the mods don't know why you are flagging it.

It doesn't work when it's not super clear what's up and the flags don't come in in volume, yeah. And if there's something about a post or comment that strikes you as problematic but there's any kind of nuance to why, dropping us a line to let us know why you flagged or what you're concerned is going down is a good idea.

The issue there is that in this case, not that many people even flagged it, whether they moved on or not afterward—the general case is "flagging it" doesn't work too well (that is, doesn't send us a clear There Is A Problem Here message) if people don't flag it. Lack of flagging is, really, an indication to us that not many people actually had a problem with it, which is the default state for most posts.

I don't know if this post is an example of a sort of edge-case post that lots and lots of people thought should surely have been flagged but most of them decided not to flag where they otherwise would or something, but however it came about, there were very few flags and no other kinds of heads up that people were upset about the post. I can see now the stuntish reasoning that some folks are talking about if I squint a little, but with Brandon flatly disclaiming stuntiness and not having a history of pranks, I'm left mostly shrugging at the post itself.

In general, leaving comments in-thread to the effect that you don't know why a thread still exists, etc, is not a good way to let us know about problems with a thread, because if we don't have a specific reason to go examine the thread carefully then we're just not likely to see those comments. It's in part because those comments are not likely to accomplish anything that seem like gratuitous noise to me.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:10 AM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

Everyone needs a hug, especially the normarators.
posted by fixedgear at 7:12 AM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

Sheesh, I kind of wish I hadn't clicked on that dude's profile. MeFi Brownshirts and damning to hell indeed.

And what in the fuck, wfrgms. Go find some other site to shit on, we don't need you shitting on us so desperately that we're going to put up with page-long screeds about "brownshirts" and your fucked-up fixation on Jessamyn.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:14 AM on August 13, 2009 [14 favorites]

I don't know if this post is an example of a sort of edge-case post that lots and lots of people thought should surely have been flagged

My guess is because a lot of people aren't interested at all in penis posts.
posted by smackfu at 7:17 AM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

Uh-oh. Cortex is pissed. (With good reason, BTW.)
posted by JeffK at 7:17 AM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

Did you ban him? It would honestly be nice if you were crystal clear on who you ban, rather than just implying it.
posted by smackfu at 7:18 AM on August 13, 2009 [2 favorites]

Does anyone else pronounce wfrgms as "RalfWiggums"?

Nope, I always pronounce it just as directed in his profile: "WFRGMS: It's pronounced 'fuck Texas.' Which of course, is like him saying to me -- a person he's never met -- Fuck You. So, that's nice. I think of that every single time he posts.
posted by Houstonian at 7:21 AM on August 13, 2009 [4 favorites]

You, my friend, are obviously not a gay man.

Hmm, I see that by trying not to be a dick whilst being an asshole*...I've strangled my meaning beyond recognition. Perhaps if I'd linked to iamkimiam's most recent FPP, it would be more clear that I have nothing against penises or the penis post?

* an asshole for snarking which I feel kinda fine doing because iamkimiam's comments in both threads are pretty annoying....but not wanting to be a dick since I generally like her contributions and she apologized. I'm sure I've failed now. Oh well. Go dicks!
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 7:21 AM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

He is banned. That personal at-length profile-screed shit is over the line, and this isn't the first time he's been a huge asshole about moderation, jessamyn, etc.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:21 AM on August 13, 2009 [11 favorites]

Can we get back to talking about penises now?
posted by JeffK at 7:23 AM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

Well, at least some good came of the penis post.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 7:24 AM on August 13, 2009 [3 favorites]

You know what's more interesting than penises?

I don't know and I don't want to know.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 7:29 AM on August 13, 2009 [6 favorites]

Cocktopus.
posted by Sailormom at 7:35 AM on August 13, 2009 [10 favorites]

man he should have printed out his profile and taped it to jessamyn's fridge

p.s. WHOEVER IS EATING ALL THE PRETZELS THAT IS VERY RUDE YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE!!!!! SOME OF US WORK HARD TO BUY PRETZELS AND DO NOT APPRECIATE PEOPLE WHO JUST EAT THEM WITHOUT REPLACING THEM
posted by Optimus Chyme at 7:56 AM on August 13, 2009 [7 favorites]

That personal at-length profile-screed shit is over the line...

Wait, what? He wasn't spamming it in threads. He put it in his own "personal" space that you can choose not to read.
posted by DU at 7:58 AM on August 13, 2009 [2 favorites]

It seems that my efforts to convert the populace to penii^* has failed. Foiled again!

* Orthographically, that is. I have no Gay Agenda^†.
† I prefer the Android.
posted by Lemurrhea at 7:59 AM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

Wait, what? He wasn't spamming it in threads. He put it in his own "personal" space that you can choose not to read (DU)

But that was some incredibly passive aggressive shit. The mods have tried to work with wfrgms before. It seems like they gave him a pretty fair shake. It isn't so much just that he had that in his profile, I think; it's that on top of everything else.
posted by ocherdraco at 8:03 AM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

Wait, what? He wasn't spamming it in threads. He put it in his own "personal" space that you can choose not to read.

If someone wants to leave a grousy note on their profile, that's fine; folks have certainly done so in various ways in the past, and we don't really have any interest in keeping track of the contents of folks' profiles in general. It's definitely a personal space in a do-your-own-thing-with-it sense.

But it's also a public space inasmuch as it's an explicitly community-facing part of this site, and if someone is going to lose their shit and go over the top and personal, we don't feel obliged to sit there and take it. This is the latest in a long series of shit from someone who has basically refused to actually have conversations about any of this stuff, and that's enough of it.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:07 AM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

beer pong contest with a Cocktopus prize!
posted by nomisxid at 8:22 AM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

jessamyn: "Which makes it seems stunty,"

That's really odd, to my mind. I looked at it and I thought, "huh. someone made an informative post about penis biology. good idea." I could see it as a stunt if there were something subtly funny about it, or if it made some reference to another post or comment or something along those lines. but as it is, I don't see how the absence of anything odd or stunty makes it seem stunty.

anyway, BB, I thought it was a good post and I'm sorry it's turned into a thing for you. I hope my stupid comment in there didn't contribute to the problem too badly.
posted by shmegegge at 8:25 AM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

Cocktopus: I'm with Lenurrhea -- Octopenii. Not a Bond sequel (yet).
posted by msalt at 8:26 AM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

Wait, what? He wasn't spamming it in threads. He put it in his own "personal" space that you can choose not to read.

Dude had a psychotic grudge against a moderator and, on my reading of that screed, had severe problems with misogyny as well.
posted by creasy boy at 8:26 AM on August 13, 2009 [2 favorites]

Can we get back to talking about penises now?

Did we ever stop?
posted by quin at 8:27 AM on August 13, 2009 [2 favorites]

I don't know that it struck me as "over the top and personal." It was histrionic, and it's grating whenever somebody tries to couch direct criticism of one person in phony vague language ("certain mods"...ugh). And I know problem users are probably like glaciers, in that we don't see 90% of what you mods have to put up with behind the scenes. But the complaint on his profile was substantive.

I thought Jessamyn's reply above was measured about right. "If you don't like me, take it up with Matt." I don't know how you mods perceive the structure, but I'm under the impression that you and Jessamyn work for Matt. Inasmuch as that's the case, when a member has a problem with you or her, and not with a peer, that rises to the level of banning (and I don't necessarily disagree that it did, here), it would probably look better if you let Matt push the button.
posted by cribcage at 8:29 AM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

Belatedly, "penis" and "post" are redundant.
posted by Astro Zombie at 8:30 AM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

How apt that he should get banned in a chat about dicks.
posted by CunningLinguist at 8:31 AM on August 13, 2009 [9 favorites]

He put it in his own "personal" space that you can choose not to read.

"Personal" space? It was public space, by any reasonable definition. It's not like it's the guy's house, and you have to be invited in. That was some weird and venomous, and weirdly personal stuff in there. I see that as clear a reason for the hammer as any.
posted by dirtdirt at 8:32 AM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

Lots of history and backstory in this comment.
posted by CunningLinguist at 8:34 AM on August 13, 2009 [3 favorites]

Dude had a psychotic grudge against a moderator and, on my reading of that screed, had severe problems with misogyny as well.

I'll take cortex's word that this is a camel-backed straw, but I'm pretty sure we don't ban users for being suspiciously misogynistic on their profile pages.
posted by DU at 8:38 AM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

yeah, that comment CunningLinguist linked to makes it pretty clear what the problem is. fuck that guy.
posted by shmegegge at 8:39 AM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

Then of course there is the issue of it being just banning a user from a website.

It's the nuclear option though. How many people get banned for not being spammers? One a month?
posted by smackfu at 8:42 AM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

Inasmuch as that's the case, when a member has a problem with you or her, and not with a peer, that rises to the level of banning (and I don't necessarily disagree that it did, here), it would probably look better if you let Matt push the button.

We talk about this stuff in email before we take action, regardless of who is throwing the switch. None of us is inclined to ban someone casually or on a whim, so we're pretty explicitly about head-checking things, and on the rare occasions that a long-time member gets banned it's invariably after a series of such discussions.

As far as forcing Matt to make a show of pushing the button himself, that's not something we're really into. I can see where you're coming from, but we all have a fair amount of autonomy at this point—we work as a team, we stay in contact, and Matt doesn't micromanage.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:45 AM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

I don't know that it struck me as "over the top and personal."

While different people's definitions of "over the top and personal" may vary (and his certainly met mine, and then some), there's a whole lot of history—some public, some behind-the-scenes—behind it, and I don't think the mods are out of line for taking the whole of it into account and going, You know, we're done. We don't know the whole of it. We do know that banning is not done on a whim or without a lot of good reasons behind it. It's not done capriciously or in a fit of "fuck off and don't come back" (except in the case of spammers, of course).

This was a good decision.
posted by rtha at 8:46 AM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

smackfu writes "My guess is because a lot of people aren't interested at all in penis posts."

Which fortunately isn't a delete or keep metric.

Brandon Blatcher writes "As to the 'point' of the post: Somebody, not a Mefite, sent me the Life Cycle of a Penis link, as a guy approaching 40 I thought it was interesting, looked around for more information and made a post with the idea 'can't recall a post about the biology of the penis, might be neat to make'. Were jokes about the post expected? Sure, but they weren't the point, and was hoping more interesting discussion would come from it, but hey them's the breaks."

One of the reasons I think putting the main link front and centre (IE: link the first word of the post) is recommended is the link doesn't get lost in the sea of supporting links.

rtha writes "there's a whole lot of history—some public, some behind-the-scenes—behind it, and I don't think the mods are out of line for taking the whole of it into account and going, You know, we're done. We don't know the whole of it. We do know that banning is not done on a whim or without a lot of good reasons behind it."

His public history would have had me punting him a while ago. The complete non-sequitor he dropped in this thread has been typical of his behaviour for a while. It's childish ME! Me! Me! attention whoring.
posted by Mitheral at 8:59 AM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

Amusing note: I was going to make a post about the Time article, Why Exercise Won't Make You Thin, but didn't. figuring it would be too shit stirring, and might be a bit lazy or stunty to make a single link post about it, based on past threads about weight. Instead, I went with the penises and inadvertly stirred shit while someone else makes a post about the article and it seems to go well.

I see what you're doing there Crom and I don't think it's funny.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:00 AM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

So what have we learned here today?

Posting to the Blue about dicks: OK
Being a dick in the Green: Not OK

I think that sums it up.
posted by JeffK at 9:01 AM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

Christ, what a dick.
posted by gman at 9:01 AM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

I always am a little sad to see a member who has been around a while get banned.

I have to say that I'm not. It takes a huge amount of asshattery to get banned. People who've been around here a long time should know better.
posted by ob at 9:01 AM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

WHY IS THIS DOUBlE STIll AROUND?
posted by Sys Rq at 9:08 AM on August 13, 2009

Not to be an asshole, but shouldn't that be "please stop pissing in the penis post?

I take it you have never heard of shitting dicknipples. A google image search should provide enlightenment.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 9:29 AM on August 13, 2009 [3 favorites]

Cocktopus.

Octomom.
posted by Combustible Edison Lighthouse at 9:37 AM on August 13, 2009 [3 favorites]

I take it you have never heard of shitting dicknipples. A google image search should provide enlightenment.

*sigh* I really should learn to contain my curiosity. Once seen, things cannot be unseen.
posted by notashroom at 9:38 AM on August 13, 2009

Well, what do you expect from a member whose unofficial motto is an insult?
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 9:41 AM on August 13, 2009 [3 favorites]

*sigh* I really should learn to contain my curiosity. Once seen, things cannot be unseen.

Glad to be of service.

Now back to penises, when do we get a Hot Male Celebrity penis post?
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 9:49 AM on August 13, 2009

Hey all, I just want to say that I'm sorry for shitting in the thread, both here and there. Overall, I strive to not add negativity and snark to the site, and that's obviously a work in progress at times. I seriously thought that the thread was getting deleted and that the atmosphere was one where we were all playing around and riffing on each other. That's no excuse, and definitely bad judgment on my part for sure.

I'm also acutely aware of my inability to make a good FPP on the blue. I think my Sex and the City post is a shining example of that...complete with MANY deservedly loved thread shitting comments. I get it. And fake viral videos about beer pong do suck too. Can I cringe in peace?

Eideteker, I'm struggling with your comment above because I find it extremely offensive and I get the impression you were directing it to me. Care to discuss, on either front?
posted by iamkimiam at 9:55 AM on August 13, 2009

Also, please don't take my "This could be a fun thing..." comment as me making light of the topic. I didn't go into it with that intention at all. My idea of fun includes the offbeat, the taboo, the weird, the scatological, the morbid, and other descriptors that I think most people wouldn't label 'fun'. I'm a huge weird nerd for sure.
posted by iamkimiam at 10:00 AM on August 13, 2009

iamkimiam, I think (hope) Eideteker was making a rhetorical point about the absurdity of 'why hasn't this been deleted yet' questions.

Now can we please get back to talking about penis? I'm single and this is the closest thing to action I've had in months.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 10:03 AM on August 13, 2009

Well shoot. I tilt towards being more sympathetic because I've met the dude, but it's unfortunate it had to end like this for wfrgms. (Don't get me wrong. It did, apparently, have to end like this. I didn't see the profile screed, but I can't imagine it was terribly pleasant if it caused a banhammer wielding.)

I'm not going to defend many of his actions, but dude was a big asset on AskMe. Sometimes a little more direct than is necessary, but his bluntness was often an asset in relationship questions. And it wasn't just a question of being the biggest, snarkiest dick in contentious threads, such that responders favorite but posters get pissed; I saw a ton of "Best Answer" sidebar activity from him as well.

Not trying to excuse anything, just saying there was plenty of good on display, even if it was mostly outweighed.
posted by SpiffyRob at 10:08 AM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

And the double "dude" in a penis thread seems plenty appropriate.
posted by SpiffyRob at 10:10 AM on August 13, 2009

dnab, Do you want to see a photo of Tony Danza in the nude?
posted by yhbc at 10:18 AM on August 13, 2009

it seems stunty

Maybe it was cold?
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:18 AM on August 13, 2009

dnab, Do you want to see a photo of Tony Danza in the nude?

I said hot.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 10:26 AM on August 13, 2009

"[This photo was removed in response to a request from Mr. Danza's attorneys. The salient points in their letter are 1) that the photo is fake, and 2) that it "has caused and continues to cause him distress." For which, my apologies.]"


I am so very sad about this. Ok, talk to you later.
posted by CunningLinguist at 10:27 AM on August 13, 2009

Not trying to excuse anything, just saying there was plenty of good on display, even if it was mostly outweighed.

Tangentially, how much of our ability to even notice those good answers is the result of patient mod intervention? If his non-answers had been left alone, what would his derailing noise to positive feedback ratio be?
posted by zarq at 10:33 AM on August 13, 2009

Shitting dicknipples led me to "the worst picture ever", and I did not particularly like it.
posted by Meatbomb at 10:38 AM on August 13, 2009

Oh wow, I can't believe I slept through wfrgms getting banned! Don't be confused, folks - this was a long time coming. AskMe is now safe from his snide, condescending, aggressively misogynistic "answers." This is a good thing.

Now what's all this about penises?
posted by EatTheWeek at 10:40 AM on August 13, 2009 [2 favorites]

This is like one of those personality tests. My brain very quickly decided that there wasn't going to be any picture I wanted to see behind a door named "Shitting Dicknipples".
posted by dirtdirt at 10:41 AM on August 13, 2009 [2 favorites]

See, and my brain had me there faster than you can say... well, you know.
posted by longsleeves at 10:48 AM on August 13, 2009

You know, you see something like "shitting dicknipples," and you just have to Google it. And when upon Googling it you find this image, the worst part is that it's nobody's fault but yours.

However, by linking it, I might be a little bit at fault. So do not click that link. As is often said, nothing can be unseen.
posted by nevercalm at 10:51 AM on August 13, 2009

(Above photo has nothing to do with shitting dicknipples, but HAS made me rethink my feelings on the utility of Photoshop...)
posted by nevercalm at 10:52 AM on August 13, 2009

Do you want to see a photo of Tony Danza in the nude?

I don't think it's cool to post a naked photo of a previously banned user.
posted by gman at 11:00 AM on August 13, 2009

Tangentially, how much of our ability to even notice those good answers is the result of patient mod intervention? If his non-answers had been left alone, what would his derailing noise to positive feedback ratio be?

No argument here, and I wouldn't be surprised if his ability to leave the occasional gem lengthened the leash he was on. Just didn't want the guy to be utterly demonized. Even at our worst, we're all people here.
posted by SpiffyRob at 11:00 AM on August 13, 2009

"Now can we please get back to talking about penis? I'm single and this is the closest thing to action I've had in months."

That's what happens when you get gay marriage—now all the good ones are gay and married.
posted by klangklangston at 11:13 AM on August 13, 2009

Flagged for lack of pickle surprise.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 11:20 AM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

Problem solved Durn.
posted by Meatbomb at 11:26 AM on August 13, 2009

This thread has been up HOW LONG and no one has referenced SNL's Penis Song?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:27 AM on August 13, 2009

Monty Python's.
posted by Meatbomb at 11:29 AM on August 13, 2009

Anyone occasionally substitute "penis" for "pizza" in the Bagel Bites song?

Penis in the morning
Penis in the evening
Penis at suppertime
When penis is on a bagel
You can eat penis anytime

Just me? Cool.
posted by SpiffyRob at 11:34 AM on August 13, 2009 [7 favorites]

so, if the post in question had been concerned with the nose as opposed to the penis, would this thread exist? would wfrgms still be with us? would I not now be somehow tagged as bailout-asshole-art-appropriation-advertising-40? I'm 50, actually. Don't know where that 40 came from.

What if it had been vagina?
posted by philip-random at 11:58 AM on August 13, 2009

"It's been up for a good 14 hours now"

Consult a doctor.
posted by shammack at 12:12 PM on August 13, 2009 [5 favorites]

I think there are probably a lot of people who frequent Ask that, like me, have found themselves flagging a lot of unnecessarily inflammatory, insulting, and unhelpful comments from wfrgms. If you're one of those people, then you've probably also noticed how many of his answers get deleted. He is the only, only person where I've felt I've had to consistently flag his comments, and the only person whose username I've learned by memory merely because I flag him so often. Whenever he would post a normal-person answer, devoid of insulting language and actually helpful, I would double-take once I saw who posted it.

I don't care how long he's been a member, the mods made the right decision. Every time I've seen another one of his dick-ish answers disappear I've been amazed with their patience, and I absolutely believe them when they say that his profile was a last-straw situation.

To put it another way, if wfrgms didn't seem like a complete asshole to some of you, it's at least partly because the mods cleaned up after him so thoroughly. There was one day where it seemed like nearly everything he posted was really nasty, but nearly all of it seemed to get deleted within half an hour or faster.

Let's not forget this has come up before, and he didn't seem to improve much afterwards.
posted by Nattie at 12:33 PM on August 13, 2009 [10 favorites]

would wfrgms still be with us?

If so, not for long, I'm guessing. He chose to drop a turd in this thread that had nothing to do with the subject at hand and everything to do with his ongoing lack of perspective and his persecution complex, and it apparently drew attention to some extremely obnoxious and disturbing lashout stuff he smeared on the walls of his profile page. It seems like he was determined to close the deal on his flameout and soon would have anyway if not here in this thread today.

This, the anti-penis post comment callout/bannination thread of the summer of aught nine.
posted by longsleeves at 12:43 PM on August 13, 2009 [2 favorites]

It's too bad that screed is gone now. The only way it could have been crazier is if it was written in feces.
posted by dead cousin ted at 12:56 PM on August 13, 2009

dead cousin ted: "It's too bad that screed is gone now. The only way it could have been crazier is if it was written in feces."

Yeah, that's a... that's a loss, I guess.
posted by boo_radley at 1:05 PM on August 13, 2009 [2 favorites]

I missed it. I missed it all. Cortex got mad, and I missed it. It turns out one of MeFi's most annoying users has gone off the deep end, and where am I? Not on MetaTalk. This is what happens when you neglect the gray. I had an itchy feeling yesterday that something big was going down, and I ignored it. What have I done?

Also, penises. They exist.
posted by brina at 1:10 PM on August 13, 2009

Please take care not to mention "itchy feeling" and "penises" in the same paragraph.

tia
posted by mr_crash_davis mark II: Jazz Odyssey at 1:23 PM on August 13, 2009

I think there are probably a lot of people who frequent Ask that, like me, have found themselves flagging a lot of unnecessarily inflammatory, insulting, and unhelpful comments from wfrgms. If you're one of those people, then you've probably also noticed how many of his answers get deleted. He is the only, only person where I've felt I've had to consistently flag his comments, and the only person whose username I've learned by memory merely because I flag him so often.

Yeah, exactly. I have a big problem with people who feel the need to wrap a response, even a potentially helpful one, around an insult to the Asker. A lot of people do it, he was the only one who seemed to do it literally every time.
posted by drjimmy11 at 1:29 PM on August 13, 2009

WHY DO OBAMA'S DEATH SQUADS WANT TO KILL GRAMMA'S PENIS?

(was that crazy enough?)
posted by potsmokinghippieoverlord at 1:31 PM on August 13, 2009

What if it had been vagina?

Then your uncle would be your aunt.
posted by dirigibleman at 1:32 PM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

Hmm. I've gotta get myself one of these "bagels."
posted by nebulawindphone at 1:35 PM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

jessamyn is really a very nice person. I noticed at the New Orleans meetup that she didn't behave as though she was internet famous and only hang out with the cool kids. She got to know everyone that had taken the time to show up and was a real class act to everyone, even those of us who aren't as well known here on Mefi. Based on the way she treated people at the meetup I have no doubt that she is fair handed and does not have an agenda. I don't like seeing people say otherwise. If the other mods are anything like her all the praise they get from the community at large is well placed.
posted by nola at 1:58 PM on August 13, 2009 [7 favorites]

As to the "point" of the post: Somebody, not a Mefite, sent me the Life Cycle of a Penis link, as a guy approaching 40 I thought it was interesting, looked around for more information and made a post with the idea "can't recall a post about the biology of the penis, might be neat to make".

For what it's worth, I made the mistake of reading that article. I am now dismayed. Frankly, I really did not need to know at this time that my dick was going to shrink, develop scar tissue, and become dysfunctional. The future makes me very sad.

Informative, but the information sucks. Hard enough to scar, apparently.
posted by five fresh fish at 2:09 PM on August 13, 2009

This, the anti-penis post comment callout/bannination thread of the summer of aught nine.

The Summer '09 Don't Be A Dick in a Penis Thread Bannination.

Soon to be an Arlo Guthrie song.
posted by five fresh fish at 2:11 PM on August 13, 2009

HELLO CAN WE GET BACK TO PENIS PLZ
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 2:21 PM on August 13, 2009 [2 favorites]

BB, I found the Life Cycle article informative and interesting, so thanks for posting. I'm going to read the rest of the links when I have more time. Too bad the thread turned out the way it did.
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 2:27 PM on August 13, 2009

> jessamyn is really a very nice person.

Seconded. It makes me really mad when asshats go off on her, not because she's a mod and I suck up to authority figures (trust me, I have problems with authority figures), but because she's a very nice person and tries really hard to do the right thing around here and takes it hard when she's unfairly criticized, and dammit, lay offa her, she's a nice person!
posted by languagehat at 2:27 PM on August 13, 2009 [2 favorites]

Sorry for the derail... and now, back to your regularly scheduled penises!
posted by languagehat at 2:27 PM on August 13, 2009

My penises have been on hiatus lately. No regular schedule :/
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 2:35 PM on August 13, 2009

If the other mods are anything like her all the praise they get from the community at large is well placed.

jessamyn hosted me in her very own home, and fed me and my woman chicken in the evening and pancakes in the morning*, based on nothing other than the fact that I was some guy from MetaFilter. She is an excellent person.

It's that shifty bastard cortex you have to watch out for. If you don't keep the crawlspace hatch firmly locked he scurries out to get drunk on Thunderbird and ends up calling at 3am asking you for bail money.

*for free
posted by Meatbomb at 2:40 PM on August 13, 2009

My dick in a box. (one year anniversary with the ex)
*kinda NSFW
posted by gman at 2:51 PM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

Gman's dick in a box, SFW version.*

*for some definitions of "safe"
posted by Meatbomb at 2:56 PM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

For once, I did not click on any un-unseeable images. Oh yes, I have one tiny little shred of common sense. The one that keeps from tasting anything described as "This is awful!.............................You should try it."
posted by grapefruitmoon at 3:00 PM on August 13, 2009

gman: My dick in a box. (one year anniversary with the ex)
*kinda NSFW

Ah, interesting. www.smugmug.com has disabled alt-arrow navigation and repurposed it for their own interface, instead of finding their own damned hotkeys? Let me just make a note of that.

*writes 'www.smugmug.com' in little black book of 'WEBSITES THAT WILL DIE WHEN I'M KING OF THE INTERNET'*
posted by koeselitz at 3:10 PM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

Sometimes a little more direct than is necessary, but his bluntness was often an asset in relationship questions.

The ones that stayed were the ones we didn't remove and even they were on the too-blunt side for many people. I don't think I'm being too inside baseball to say that he'd had over 100 comments removed [on a website where most people have zero comments removed and very few have more than a few removed, ever] and was causing a lot of strife in AskMe. None of this would have been much of an issue except for his stated "I am not going to talk about any of this or change my behavior at all" approach to the site. We'll work with pretty much anyone if they want to stay on the site; if they need help figuring out the guidelines or why they seem to be rubbing up against them all the time we'll help.

The short form: if you think all comment removal is censorship then this is probably not a good website for you. If you respond to comment removal by making a lot of snide (and untrue) allegations about a mod's personal life then this is probably not the site for you.

wfrgms and I probably agreed more than disagreed as far as the advice he gave in AskMe, but tone matters and once someone's nastiness is having a chilling effect on other people even being willing to ask questions, it's over the line.

I'm on vacation, not stewing, but I just wanted to say thanks for folks' nice comments. Back to your regularly scheduled penis party....
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:13 PM on August 13, 2009 [4 favorites]

jessamyn hosted me in her very own home, and fed me and my woman chicken in the evening

I thought for a moment that meatbomb was involved with a chicken. Thank god it was a woman chicken.
posted by otherwordlyglow at 3:23 PM on August 13, 2009 [5 favorites]

It's a boring post with hardly anything to offer. It's not the topic whatsoever - I don't care that it's about penises. I care that it offers nothing unusual or interesting - it's not the best of the web - it reads to me like a collection of quick google searches about penis biology. Luckily there were a lot more interesting posts that day so one random boring one is hardly an insult, but I just expect better from Metafilter.
posted by agregoli at 3:36 PM on August 13, 2009

My penis is so big that it's been occasionally sited in a loch in Scotland.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 3:38 PM on August 13, 2009

My penis is so big, I fuck elevator shafts.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 3:39 PM on August 13, 2009

My penis is so big, it won't return Spielberg's calls.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 3:39 PM on August 13, 2009

My penis is so big, it's imagines itself as Ferris Bueller.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 3:39 PM on August 13, 2009

Are you free Saturday night?
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 3:46 PM on August 13, 2009 [4 favorites]

What if it had been vagina?

Then we'd be having another huge mysogyfilter/boyzone/etc flamefest about the jerky posts in the thread.

my woman chicken

Your sentence structure disturbs me.
posted by rodgerd at 3:47 PM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

Are you free Saturday night?

I don't think Seattle's a big enough town for meeting of the penises of that total, tumescent titanic majesty.

;-)
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 4:03 PM on August 13, 2009

Is a penis post something you attach to your penis with gardening twine, to stop it from collapsing before it has had the opportunity to take root?
posted by turgid dahlia at 4:14 PM on August 13, 2009 [4 favorites]

Goddamnit Metatalk! First I go home for the weekend and miss the whole kldickson brouhaha. Then, I ignore a post about the penis thread same as I ignored the thread itself only to find out I miss a bannin'.

That'll learn me for ignoring penises.
posted by graventy at 4:19 PM on August 13, 2009

otherwordlyglow: I thought for a moment that meatbomb was involved with a chicken. Thank god it was a woman chicken.

Though, if jessamyn ever hosts Gonzo the Great, it'll be one hell of a party.
posted by l33tpolicywonk at 5:24 PM on August 13, 2009

What if they threw a penis party and nobody, er...
posted by nebulawindphone at 5:37 PM on August 13, 2009 [5 favorites]

I don't think Seattle's a big enough town for meeting of the penises of that total, tumescent titanic majesty.

You've obviously never been to Capitol Hill... j/k
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 5:39 PM on August 13, 2009

You've obviously never been to Capitol Hill... j/k

My penis is so big, I can be checking the wine selection at QFC at Broadway and Pike while my penis checks out the bakery at the other QFC, in the Broadway Market.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 5:55 PM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

Does QFC stand for "quoted for cock"?
posted by turgid dahlia at 6:47 PM on August 13, 2009

"quite flaccid cock"
posted by UbuRoivas at 7:07 PM on August 13, 2009

Does QFC stand for "quoted for cock"?

Quality Food Center. It's a grocery store. There's two on Capitol Hill, the heart of Seattle's gay community, and a fine place overall.

But this is something you'd have to have a penis to understand.

ZING!
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 8:07 PM on August 13, 2009

Oh, a queer-friendly chain.
posted by UbuRoivas at 8:10 PM on August 13, 2009

I am compelled to mention that for lunch today I had a hamburger from the restaurant that is just about exactly at the halfway point between the two QFCs on Capitol Hill. Yes, that's right, I ate a Dick's Deluxe, and it was delicious.
posted by Balonious Assault at 8:39 PM on August 13, 2009

Yes, that's right, I ate a Dick's Deluxe, and it was delicious.

I need to open a BP burger joint in Seattle. Dick's is okay in a tight pinch, but I really can't believe it gets the business that it does. They could use some competition.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 8:56 PM on August 13, 2009

Yeah, but nobody will know how to pronounce it.

"Hey, I'm hungry - whaddaya say we go grab ourselves a Blayze...a Blazzy...you know, that Pilly-on joint...? Oh, fuck it. Dick's. Let's go there"
posted by UbuRoivas at 9:27 PM on August 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

dude was a big asset on AskMe... his bluntness was often an asset in relationship questions

That's all well and good, but it's worth remembering that the primary requirements for responding to relationship AskMes are a functioning nervous system and a keyboard.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:30 PM on August 13, 2009

I'll call it Pigeon Burgers. I'll have a neon logo of a cartoon rat with wings.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:38 PM on August 13, 2009

I'll call it Pigeon Burgers.

That'll get 'em lining up.
posted by longsleeves at 9:46 PM on August 13, 2009

"I'm not sure I feel like a cockburger. Let's just grab some Dicks instead"
posted by UbuRoivas at 9:54 PM on August 13, 2009

Blazecock Pileon: "I'll call it Pigeon Burgers. I'll have a neon logo of a cartoon rat with wings."

are you kidding me? you have a golden opportunity to open a restaurant with the word cock in the name, and you're going to turn it down?

shit, you should call it Cockcock's Cocking Cockcockcock Burgers.

serve me a milkshake and you have a customer for life!
posted by shmegegge at 10:14 PM on August 13, 2009 [2 favorites]

And you could sell those big family meal deals, just like KFC:

"Gimme a bucket of Cocks, please!"
posted by UbuRoivas at 10:23 PM on August 13, 2009 [2 favorites]

"Sir, did you want me to supersize that Hot Blazecock Beef Injection?"
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:36 PM on August 13, 2009

Blazecock Pileon: Are you free Saturday night?

Well, he's obviously feeling pretty fuckin' free tonight.
posted by koeselitz at 2:00 AM on August 14, 2009

Cool Papa Bell: My penis is so big that it's been occasionally sited in a loch in Scotland.

That's right, folks: it's so big it's sited. Not placed, not located, not even housed - it's sited, like a constitutional convention or a nuclear testing facility.
posted by koeselitz at 2:06 AM on August 14, 2009 [1 favorite]

The Dick's in Spokane has a sign advertising them "by the bagfull". Which I believe is a choking hazard.
posted by Sallyfur at 2:10 AM on August 14, 2009

As is Cool Papa Bell, evidently.
posted by Sallyfur at 2:11 AM on August 14, 2009 [2 favorites]

jessamyn: The short form: if you think all comment removal is censorship then this is probably not a good website for you... I'm on vacation, not stewing, but I just wanted to say thanks for folks' nice comments.

I missed all of this the first time around - not that there appears to have been much to be around for - but there was one thing which everybody probably already noticed that seems interesting about this to me now that I'm in the loop -

The central issue isn't even really that it's unfair to be pissed off about censorship! although that's certainly part of it. Lots of people around here bring that up every time it's even remotely an issue; they grind their axes and then let it go and move on. Nor is even being a dick, or being unnecessarily abrasive, completely incompatible with being a productive mefi contributor; I'm a dick all the time, I've had people email and memail me about it.

But the thing that really did it in this case was being completely and totally unresponsive. It's not so bad to be a dick, or to be pissed off that your comments are deleted, so long as you're willing to talk about it. If the person in question here had addressed it when he was called out in Meta - if he'd been willing to say, 'I think I was justified because of x,' or 'I think this decision was wrong because of y,' and had been willing to discuss and respond to the thoughts of others, or at the very least been willing to offer a reason for his outlook - then at least we could've found some sort of common ground and come to some kind of agreement. But being totally unwilling even to respond to criticism, unwilling to deign to let people in on what he was thinking, kind of put the lie to the whole 'I'm being censored!' line in the end, didn't it?

If you're out there reading this, wfrgms: yeah, I've been a dick to you in the past, and I'm not trying to rub this shit in your face or anything. I'm hoping you're like a lot of us (myself included) who end up leaving only to come back after a while, not least because I feel like a lot of your contributions have been good (though I guess I can't possibly have jessamyn's perspective on it). But, well, on a web site that's all about conversation, doesn't it kind of suck to pull this hit-and-run game where you say something that's borderline insulting and then refuse to discuss what you meant or what other people think?

I guess all I'm saying is, check this out: jessamyn came in here during her vacation to let us all know what page she was on in regard to all this stuff. That casts a pretty strong contrast with, for example, sticking a big critique on a userpage and then refusing to discuss it, doesn't it? Maybe you still think this is all bullshit, and you're entitled to that - I respect you enough to let you have your own opinion, but I also respect you enough to let you know when I think you're full of shit. This right here is why a lot of us around here think the mods are pretty damned cool, and not really deserving of all this censorship talk.
posted by koeselitz at 2:34 AM on August 14, 2009 [7 favorites]

UbuRoivas: "Hey, I'm hungry - whaddaya say we go grab ourselves a Blayze...a Blazzy...you know, that Pilly-on joint...?"

Ah - you're talking about that new place, that place that has Balls-cock Burgers or whatever. I hear there's a lot of debate around town about whether Balls-cock's are as good as Dick's; I think they're better, but you have to request no mayonnaise.
posted by koeselitz at 6:35 AM on August 14, 2009

I need to open a BP burger joint in Seattle.

What's the secret sauce?

Bah dum bump, khssss...
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 6:55 AM on August 14, 2009

it's worth remembering that the primary requirements for responding to relationship AskMes are a functioning nervous system and a keyboard.

Why I don't follow those threads. AskMe needs more deletions, not fewer.

If the person in question here had addressed it when he was called out in Meta...

Nah. I agree with wfrgms, there. Keep out of your own callouts. I think I've been the subject of two—once, when I first signed up, somebody objected to a comment I posted, mailbombed me, and then opened a MeTa; and once, somebody called out an AskMe that I had posted. I participated in the first, not the second, and learned that they resolve themselves just fine without my help. Excepting the sobby confessional ones ("I'm sooooo sorry, I'll never do X again"—which, it seems clear, wfrgms wasn't going to do), showing up only provides fuel.

That is separate, however, from refusing to engage the mods when they try to address you about an issue. Email, memail, etc. If Jessamyn and Cortex say that the guy refused to work with them, then fine. But that's separate from refusing to participate in a MeTa callout, which is probably good sense.

jessamyn came in here during her vacation... That casts a pretty strong contrast with...

Yeah, but this is her job and it ain't his. I'm not saying she's obligated to show up on her vacation (I wouldn't have); but whatever her obligation is to participate in conversation on the site, it's qualitatively different from his.
posted by cribcage at 6:55 AM on August 14, 2009

cribcage: Nah. I agree with wfrgms, there. Keep out of your own callouts. I think I've been the subject of two—once, when I first signed up, somebody objected to a comment I posted, mailbombed me, and then opened a MeTa; and once, somebody called out an AskMe that I had posted. I participated in the first, not the second, and learned that they resolve themselves just fine without my help...That is separate, however, from refusing to engage the mods when they try to address you about an issue. Email, memail, etc. If Jessamyn and Cortex say that the guy refused to work with them, then fine. But that's separate from refusing to participate in a MeTa callout, which is probably good sense.

You're not talking about a rainstorm; you're talking about a conversation. I know that a lot of callouts turn into flameouts, but the proportion is actually a lot lower than you'd think, and it'd be even lower if people didn't make the assumption that there is no callout that has decent, genuine conversation or something the person being called out can learn from it.

The point is that not saying anything when people call you out is actually a way of saying something, albeit a whole lot more ambiguously. Most likely it means "I don't respect you people enough to respond when you have a problem with me." You can't avoid it; people are most likely going to think that, and it's as good as if you'd said it out loud. When I stop my roommate in front of everybody in the house and say "you haven't done the dishes for three weeks - what the fuck?" I hope he won't just brush past me and ignore it on the pretext that it'll only turn into a fight - and I know what I'm liable to think if he does.

Doesn't it make more sense to respond, briefly but succinctly, and then bow out gracefully? If one person in the community doesn't have the respect or decency to answer when another person in the community stands up and says "dude - what the fuck? Why did you do this?" then, Jesus, what respect do we have for each other at all?
posted by koeselitz at 7:17 AM on August 14, 2009

Burhanistan: less diatribes more cockburger jokes plz

look between the lines dood THEYRE ALL COCKBURGER JOKES ! !
posted by koeselitz at 7:18 AM on August 14, 2009

God Damn I turn my back for one day to take a train ride and I miss this plus a Cocktopus too.
posted by The Whelk at 7:37 AM on August 14, 2009

I always miss out on the best drama.

Also, if the post that was the original subject of this MeTa was a stunt, it was a cunning stunt.

...what?
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:27 AM on August 14, 2009 [1 favorite]

This seems like the correct time to point out that "Ben Franklin" spelled backwards is "Nilk narf neb."
posted by Skot at 8:44 AM on August 14, 2009

Is there ever a wrong time?
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 8:46 AM on August 14, 2009

The point is that not saying anything when people call you out is actually a way of saying something, albeit a whole lot more ambiguously. Most likely it means "I don't respect you people enough to respond when you have a problem with me."

or "i don't think this is an important enough issue to talk about" or "i don't feel like submitting myself to a kangaroo court like atmosphere" or "i don't know what to say about this"

or, god forbid, "i was off somewhere and didn't see it"

i think people should be cautious about what silence means
posted by pyramid termite at 9:49 AM on August 14, 2009 [1 favorite]

But being totally unwilling even to respond to criticism, unwilling to deign to let people in on what he was thinking, kind of put the lie to the whole 'I'm being censored!' line in the end, didn't it?

a. if your aim is to provoke then the silent approach is actually quite effective; infuriating as hell from the perspective of the provoked but effective nonetheless; in this case, wfrgms provoked himself right out of Metafilter; that's genuine action.

b. years back when I was on the executive of my friendly neighborhood university radio station, our censorship policy was pretty darned simple: nothing was forbidden in terms of on-air content as long as the programmer could put it into intelligent context. Most people were never a problem; they just played their Cure-Smiths-Bauhaus faves and traded on-air in-jokes with their friends. But a few really pushed the fucking envelope (and not just late-night), making for, in my opinion, some of the most relevant media I've ever witnessed and/or been part of. Yes, there were occasional idiots who fell into racism, or sexism, or just post-adolescent stupidism and got themselves suspended/banned/forcibly removed ... but mostly, we just spread the playing field wide and ran free (and conscious).
posted by philip-random at 9:51 AM on August 14, 2009

i think people should be cautious about what silence means

I don't disagree with this, and while I think koeselitz is fairly on the mark as far as perception of non-participation goes I agree that there's not a lot you can gather from a single instance of that sort of thing.

As a pattern of behavior, it gets weirder. As an explicitly willful pattern, more so. As for:

or, god forbid, "i was off somewhere and didn't see it"

That doesn't really apply when someone starts threads themselves and then disappears in a cloud of smoke. "I was off somewhere and didn't see that I started a fighty metatalk post" wouldn't clear the lowest of hurdles, obviously.

This all applies in general and is not unique to wfrgms; it's not stuff that comes up all that often but it has come up before. In context and as a pattern of behavior it becomes a material contribution to a problem situation even if in utter vacuum and as a one-off it's more something to just hitch an eyebrow at and leave alone.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:56 AM on August 14, 2009 [1 favorite]

It's not like he was actually silent about the multiple controversies surrounding his behavior, either. He was more than happy to reference them on his profile page, what with the "fuck Texas" and the "brownshirts" and all that awful shit he said about Jessamyn. To me, this was even more weaselish than refusing to participate in callouts or to answer for his toxic contributions - he was happy to comment on it in a format that no one could respond to, and his comments there revealed a user who didn't believe that his juvenile behavior was a problem - indeed, his profile screed was a masterpiece of imagined persecution, as if this community owed him the privilege of shitting in whatever thread he pleased for as long as he needed to in order to work out whatever the hell issues he was using AskMe as a sounding board for. He wasn't going to change. He didn't think he needed to, he thought MeFi should have changed to suit him.
posted by EatTheWeek at 10:12 AM on August 14, 2009 [5 favorites]

Is a penis post something you attach to your penis with gardening twine, to stop it from collapsing before it has had the opportunity to take root?
posted by turgid dahlia at 7:14 PM on August 13

Eponys... never mind.
posted by notashroom at 10:18 AM on August 14, 2009

Why did peztopiary favorite every comment in this thread (before 1:16 AM on August 13)? What's up with that?
posted by smackfu at 10:41 AM on August 14, 2009

I guess all I'm saying is, check this out: jessamyn came in here during her vacation to let us all know what page she was on in regard to all this stuff.

All you people working on vacation: cut it out! You're setting a bad example.
posted by smackfu at 11:21 AM on August 14, 2009

He wasn't going to change. He didn't think he needed to...

He was apparently right. Jessamyn ballparked >100 comments of his that had been deleted from AskMe, and stressed what an aberation that was. And this wasn't a recent development: He was a longtime member (since 2001), and you've got a half-dozen people above, agreeing, "Yeah, that guy's attitude is notorious around AskMe."

So this wasn't a last-straw situation. This was, "Piss on AskMe, and we'll mop. Piss on us and you're gone." I don't necessarily have a problem with the second part, but (1) let's be clear about which is in play, and (2) I'd love to see the first change.
posted by cribcage at 12:33 PM on August 14, 2009

Generally, it's "piss on Askme on a regular basis and you're going to hear from us". It's never going to be "piss on AskMe and you're instabanned" for things that look more like normal bad-day or misunderstanding stuff; folks who just can't get their shit together despite having heard from us end up hearing from us again, and eventually the shoe drops, but, yes, we're relatively patient about such stuff at first.

It's not okay to fuck around in askme, and the best thing I can say in wfrgms' defense (and maybe this helps address what you're getting at, cribcage) is that he didn't seem to think he was pissing or was trying to piss in askme so much as he was just either constitutionally or emotionally unwilling to identify the shit parts of his participation as being what they were.

To put it another way: someone who shows up and just starts crapping gleefully in askme is going to get banned right-quick. Someone who shows up and seems to be trying to genuinely participate but has ongoing tone problems is going to hear from us once it looks like a pattern, and those folks usually respond by working on their tone or choice of threads to respond to. Sometimes they don't, and we go around in that circle a couple more times.

This is a case where trying to make that work over time wasn't working, and while I hear you on the perception that that behavior wasn't the specific thing that got the switch flipped, I want to be clear that it's rare for someone's activity to be so cleanly confined to just one aspect of the site that we have the luxury of dealing with problematic behavior in just one cleanly-defined arena.

Dude was increasingly on thin ice as it was, and our disinclination to ban long-time members (for better or for worse, I'm of two minds about it myself a lot of the time) is pretty much the only reason he was still around to pull this last-straw shit. It was not, in the least bit, because we're shruggingly okie-dokie with people pissing in AskMe.
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:45 PM on August 14, 2009

no pissing in askme?

there goes my watersports question this week.
posted by nomisxid at 1:06 PM on August 14, 2009

I would like to say I whole-heartedly supported the penis post. The Life Cycle of a Penis was hard to read, but raised some excellent points. I feel now more in command of a healthy penis consciousness and and determined to take better care of my johnson, I mean penis.

Also, in Life Cycle of a Penis, I think I have now found a worthy title for my memoir.

As in Life Cycle of a Penis : Memoir of a Mefite
posted by Skygazer at 1:10 PM on August 14, 2009

Ask for it at your local bookstore.
posted by Skygazer at 1:11 PM on August 14, 2009 [1 favorite]

Why are you people still talking about the douchebag? He is no longer of any going concern.
posted by five fresh fish at 2:12 PM on August 14, 2009

Or a growing concern, growing larger, bigger, firmer until finally exploding all over the bright pink leather interior.

I'm sorry, what was I talking about?
posted by The Whelk at 2:15 PM on August 14, 2009 [2 favorites]

The Whelk that is funny as shit but I'm not going to favorite. No I'm holding back , I can do this I have some self control after all. OH SHIT I'M FAVORITING!
posted by nola at 2:34 PM on August 14, 2009 [4 favorites]

HEY! ON THE CHEST!

JESUS.
posted by The Whelk at 2:38 PM on August 14, 2009

five fresh fish writes "Why are you people still talking about the douchebag?"

No one is really talking about him per se; he just happens to be the incidental focus of a policy discussion.
posted by Mitheral at 3:31 PM on August 14, 2009 [1 favorite]

he just happens to be the incidental focus of a policy discussion.

Dude, that is the weirdest euphemism ever.
posted by The Whelk at 3:38 PM on August 14, 2009 [3 favorites]

pyramid termite: i think people should be cautious about what silence means

Absolutely. I guess I went too far if I sounded like I was advocating simplistically writing off other peoples' silence; I only really wanted to say that taking it as a principle never to comment in callouts about yourself seems a bit overboard in itself.
posted by koeselitz at 4:58 PM on August 14, 2009

jessamyn hosted me in her very own home, and fed me and my woman chicken in the evening and pancakes in the morning*

After having seen jessamyn's chicken photographs, weren't you somewhat nervous about this?
posted by PeterMcDermott at 9:11 AM on August 15, 2009