Well I'd rather see you dead, little girlSo, The Beetles are consistently considered one of the most influential, greatest bands of all time, yet they have a fair number of songs that fall into the territory quoted above.
Than to be with another man
You better keep your head, little girl
Or I won't know where I am
You better run for your life if you can, little girl
Hide your head in the sand little girl
Catch you with another man
That's the end'a little girl
I was one of those who had comments removed because Faze's comment and the one he was responding too were so opaque in meaning and point that I was totally befuddled.Seriously? I'm the "New Zealander" in question who Faze was responding to, and I'm only just checking in now, but I thought my post was pretty straightforward. Oh well. But yeah. I'm disappointed (but not surprised really) about the deletion, because this is what MeFi has become since the overmodding started in earnest back in '05. But it should have been clear that both Faze and I were in earnest over what we wrote; it's a minority, but sincerely held view that both of us, independently, have put some thought into; and, as such, there should be a place for it somewhere on the site. Do we now specify that every thread on MeFi has to be filled with "helpful," supportive, like-minded comments that don't say the unexpected or unpopular? We conceded AskMe to that logic years ago, but now the Blue too?
Thanks for taking a weak and fairly insulting callout, and pretty much posting the perfect rebuttal.Again, this was a thread about music and you stepped into it to call America the most virulently racist nation in history. Even if that's a true statement, it's a fighty derail in a thread about music. This is not about whether you or Faze sincerely hold the beliefs that you are commenting about, it's whether you're able to determine when is a good time to start a conversation about those particular beliefs and when isn't. And whether you can talk to other people about them or just fling poo.
Yep. The American project of recreating all the world's non-White peoples in the image of Jim Crow is going swimmingly. The most virulently racist nation in history successfully exports its racist stereotypes, which are dutifully internalized by those on the fringes of its imperium. Then the White middle class back in the metropole consumes the results, while patting itself on the back for being so accepting of "diversity." Isn't that a heart-warming story?
And before you jump all over me: I'm a New Zealander of Polynesian descent and I never fail to find this unabashed cultural imperialism—and the general inability of people to call it out for what it actually is—deeply depressing.
Reread Faze's comment a few more times before expressing solidarity; it might serve you well, since I have a feeling you haven't noticed the chief features of his little diatribe. Maybe what you mean is that you should know better than to be "ape-like" and dislike hip-hop. I have a feeling that's how Faze might put it.Good point, koeselitz. I've got a bunch of Shakespeare essays I'm supposed to be reading right now, and don't exactly have the time or headspace to parse Faze's opinions for deviations from mine right now. But, yeah. We have different takes on the issue, certainly.
yeloson: Half the stuff I linked is music explicitly railing against Imperialism. If your goal is to criticize cultural imperialism, you could probably start by NOT accepting the oppressor's depictions of the oppressed people's culture as an accurate source of information.Sure, but the formal constraints of hip-hop as mode impose their own limitations, and convey their own information. It's repackaging what is in fact the homogenization of culture as diversity.
If all you understand of hiphop is thuggery, you've bought into the system you're supposedly against. Everywhere you can find hiphop, it doesn't take a lot of searching to see one of the major sources of worldwide popularity is hiphop's history as liberation music.Again, fine. But "liberation" itself is metropole talk. And the idea of achieving cultural independence or transcendence through the assumption of imported cultural forms is kind of delusional. You're still bound up in the world system after all.
The fact that you've ignored both a major part of the hiphop movement (both historical and current) and the realities of cultural imperialism as more complex than just displacement, makes me think your issue isn't the latter as much as "Get off my lawn!" about the music.Dude. I'm from New Zealand. This is my culture. I'm Pasifika. You don't have to school me on this, OK?
After all, if you were, you'd have watched some of those links and had something more thoughtful to say instead of "Hiphop = Jim Crow training".
Well I'd rather see you dead, little girlSo, The Beetles are consistently considered one of the most influential, greatest bands of all time, yet they have a fair number of songs that fall into the territory quoted above.
Than to be with another man
You better keep your head, little girl
Or I won't know where I am
You better run for your life if you can, little girl
Hide your head in the sand little girl
Catch you with another man
That's the end'a little girl
4. This root, this trunk, / Le 'ava le'ia, le ata le'ia,So the English translation seems a bit stilted, but it's based off a 100+ year old German translation of the original Samoan, but I like to think it gets the point across about ways in which hip-hop can work as a fascinating adjunct in contemporary Polynesian societies to traditional songs and tales. This song goes on for nine verses, each talking about how great each kind of kava is and the peculiarities of preparing and serving each (the tenth kind of kava was stolen by a demon, so no access anymore!).
That is the kava, the le'a'ula, / 'O le 'ava lea, 'o le le'a'ua,
Pulled up, throw it down before the gathering / Atia pa'uu i le talaluma,
So that the chiefs and their orators distribute it at once; / Se'i pule ane ona ali'i mona tula 'ua tutusa;
Bring it to crabs for a snack, / Ia talata ni fono ni ula,
And let us eat up young coconuts, too. / 'A e fanogutu i luaamu'a.
In “The Contest,” the flying fox represents what, for Wendt, remains an absolutely vital component of the native Pacific: the power of imagination. It is this figure of indigeneity, the pe‘a [flying fox], that facilitates imaginative travel and access to an alternative world outside the Pacific, and it is the possibilities presented in this alternative world that subsequently enable Vela to resolve his very local predicament. The “new beat” netted in Vela’s “gifted flow of dream” can be read as both destroying and preserving the indigenous knowledge, power, and tradition signified by Alopese’s awesome voice. “The Contest” suggests that indigenous Pacific futures can be understood in relation to urban, postindustrial, Afro-diasporic popular cultures, but the poem also implies that such cultures necessarily already influence the contemporary articulation of indigenous Pacific pasts. Narratives of the past, in other words, are already being delivered with new vocabularies, over new beats and new rhythms.posted by barnacles at 4:41 PM on November 6, 2010 [45 favorites]
(Henderson, "Gifted Flows: Making Space for a Brand New Beat", page 297)
The value of an intelligent enemy, even a brilliant enemy, who challenges you in the strongest language, and who continually forces you to listen to confusing and offensive rhetoric that flies in the face of everything you hold dear!
☐ Idiot enemy ☑ Brilliant enemy ☑ Arch-nemesis ☐ Enemy spouseposted by XMLicious at 12:04 PM on November 7, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:59 AM on November 6, 2010 [94 favorites]