Fark posts don't do well here May 21, 2002 5:16 PM Subscribe
"How does somebody that ugly get to reproduce? I thought there were laws about inbreeding."
and
"Damn...she must have hit all the branches on the way down."
The subject of one article about sexual activity with pre-teens, as seen at Mefi and Fark. Is this what we've become?
and
"Damn...she must have hit all the branches on the way down."
The subject of one article about sexual activity with pre-teens, as seen at Mefi and Fark. Is this what we've become?
I think the initial comments were meant to deflate any adolescent male fantasy, "where was she when I was 13" type of bullshit, but it seems to have backfired. But it's not like there was much to talk about.
Poster 1: "Pedophiles are bad"
Poster 2: "I agree, lets have coffee"
It's not like anyone was going to seriously defend this womans actions, so everyone just had a few wacks at someone who did something idiotic.
Yes, perigee, it's not us at our best but it's not the end of the world either.
posted by jonmc at 5:41 PM on May 21, 2002
Poster 1: "Pedophiles are bad"
Poster 2: "I agree, lets have coffee"
It's not like anyone was going to seriously defend this womans actions, so everyone just had a few wacks at someone who did something idiotic.
Yes, perigee, it's not us at our best but it's not the end of the world either.
posted by jonmc at 5:41 PM on May 21, 2002
I know. I think its just the shock of comparison and contrast.
When I first came here, somewhere back in MeTa, I had said that Fark was like my neighborhood bar, and Metafilter was like a MENSA meeting - and I enjoyed and needed both, in their measure.
I guess my concern lies in whether this is an anomaly, or the start of a slip in mindedness that we should look at to adjust. It shook me more than I would have expected to (obviously - quonsar is right - I do go Doctor Smith if my feathers ruffle), and I have to admit I am still a little... wary. A few days of normal posts will clean it from my brainstem, no doubt...
posted by Perigee at 5:52 PM on May 21, 2002
When I first came here, somewhere back in MeTa, I had said that Fark was like my neighborhood bar, and Metafilter was like a MENSA meeting - and I enjoyed and needed both, in their measure.
I guess my concern lies in whether this is an anomaly, or the start of a slip in mindedness that we should look at to adjust. It shook me more than I would have expected to (obviously - quonsar is right - I do go Doctor Smith if my feathers ruffle), and I have to admit I am still a little... wary. A few days of normal posts will clean it from my brainstem, no doubt...
posted by Perigee at 5:52 PM on May 21, 2002
It's not like anyone was going to seriously defend this womans actions
but they might have spent some time wondering whether what she did is deserving of 15 years in jail. might have, that is, until everyone started calling her a... what was it.... bushpig. it's more the piling on atmosphere that gets me:
Poster 1: "Pedophiles are bad"
Poster 2: "I agree, especially when they're ugly"
Poster 3: "And fat"
Poster 4: "Really fat, grossly fat"
Poster 2: "And don't forget ugly"
posted by jessamyn at 6:00 PM on May 21, 2002
but they might have spent some time wondering whether what she did is deserving of 15 years in jail. might have, that is, until everyone started calling her a... what was it.... bushpig. it's more the piling on atmosphere that gets me:
Poster 1: "Pedophiles are bad"
Poster 2: "I agree, especially when they're ugly"
Poster 3: "And fat"
Poster 4: "Really fat, grossly fat"
Poster 2: "And don't forget ugly"
posted by jessamyn at 6:00 PM on May 21, 2002
That thread was one of mine, brotha Perigee. I remember cause you made the analogy better than I did.
Don't ditch us yet, though, it's just a bad thread. Kind of a car wreck type of story, all there really is to say is "WTF?" and move on...
(on preview)
Jessamyn's right, knocking on her looks is unneccesary, when, frankly she should be knocked for being just plain insane.
posted by jonmc at 6:03 PM on May 21, 2002
Don't ditch us yet, though, it's just a bad thread. Kind of a car wreck type of story, all there really is to say is "WTF?" and move on...
(on preview)
Jessamyn's right, knocking on her looks is unneccesary, when, frankly she should be knocked for being just plain insane.
posted by jonmc at 6:03 PM on May 21, 2002
"When I first came here, somewhere back in MeTa, I had said that Fark was like my neighborhood bar, and Metafilter was like a MENSA meeting - and I enjoyed and needed both, in their measure."
I guess it's a bit of a shock to find out that Mensa members have an affinity for beer and pretzels on occasion, huh?
I also think that it says a lot that there are 14,000 members here and I count 14 rude comments in that thread, with some members contributing more than once. I suspect most people saw that thread going straight into the toilet from the beginning and just decided to stay away.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 6:17 PM on May 21, 2002
I guess it's a bit of a shock to find out that Mensa members have an affinity for beer and pretzels on occasion, huh?
I also think that it says a lot that there are 14,000 members here and I count 14 rude comments in that thread, with some members contributing more than once. I suspect most people saw that thread going straight into the toilet from the beginning and just decided to stay away.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 6:17 PM on May 21, 2002
Threads where people reveal themselves like this are priceless. Makes separating the wheat from the chaff effortless.
posted by rushmc at 6:45 PM on May 21, 2002
posted by rushmc at 6:45 PM on May 21, 2002
As long as I've been visiting here, there has been stupid, crude comments. There are more now because there are more people.
posted by Doug at 7:18 PM on May 21, 2002
posted by Doug at 7:18 PM on May 21, 2002
Doug's right, there's always been crudenessand the number of crude comments raised in proporition to the new members. The problem is, and I think I speak for quite a few people on this point, is that my patience for jackasses didn't increase with each new member.
posted by raaka at 8:17 PM on May 21, 2002
posted by raaka at 8:17 PM on May 21, 2002
...so this is where all the sensitive and ugly mensa-members hang out! wow. :P
*ducks*
A few members being crass, in my mind, does not outweigh the majority of good and constructive expression that runs this community. i think that's worth remembering.
posted by elphTeq at 10:54 PM on May 21, 2002
*ducks*
A few members being crass, in my mind, does not outweigh the majority of good and constructive expression that runs this community. i think that's worth remembering.
posted by elphTeq at 10:54 PM on May 21, 2002
I'm an ass. I commented before I read the thread in question. It's much worse than I expected. The comments wouldn't be so bad if they were crude AND intelligent, but then, if one were capable of intelligent comments...
Crash may be on to something, though. Garbage in, garbage out. The topic is pretty stupid, and the post was framed in a pretty lame way.
posted by Doug at 11:14 PM on May 21, 2002
Crash may be on to something, though. Garbage in, garbage out. The topic is pretty stupid, and the post was framed in a pretty lame way.
posted by Doug at 11:14 PM on May 21, 2002
Just chalk it up to wacky news. You can't be surprised at the result of such a post.
posted by BlueTrain at 11:33 PM on May 21, 2002
posted by BlueTrain at 11:33 PM on May 21, 2002
It was a post that had to do with lap-dancing. I am not ashamed that I wanted to see a picture of the person who instigated the dancing, and I'm not ashamed that I was curious whether or not she was attractive. I would in fact be quite disturbed if my child had attended that party, but as posters point out above, that really isn't an issue open for much controversy or conducive to much intellectual discussion. We could have let it die, or we could have had a little fun with it, and I don't see the harm in the latter.
posted by bingo at 12:10 AM on May 22, 2002
posted by bingo at 12:10 AM on May 22, 2002
iconomy: Is Fark always like that? Good god.
Pretty much, yeah. I visit FARK every couple of days to check out the links, but ALWAYS regret it when I click on the comments. If it's a political link, it becomes more often than not an extremely low-brow Rush-fest of "librul" bashing and sometimes outright racebaiting or hatemongering. If it's a Boobies-esque link, it immediately devolves into "she's ugly" and "she's fat" nonsense spouted by porcine shut-in losers, as if all women have to be 5'10", 100lbs, with huge fake breasts and too little muscle mass to fight back (I'm assuming that's the attraction).
posted by hincandenza at 12:32 AM on May 22, 2002
Pretty much, yeah. I visit FARK every couple of days to check out the links, but ALWAYS regret it when I click on the comments. If it's a political link, it becomes more often than not an extremely low-brow Rush-fest of "librul" bashing and sometimes outright racebaiting or hatemongering. If it's a Boobies-esque link, it immediately devolves into "she's ugly" and "she's fat" nonsense spouted by porcine shut-in losers, as if all women have to be 5'10", 100lbs, with huge fake breasts and too little muscle mass to fight back (I'm assuming that's the attraction).
posted by hincandenza at 12:32 AM on May 22, 2002
hincandenza: What do their height and weight have to be to earn a position on your lap?
posted by bingo at 1:28 AM on May 22, 2002
posted by bingo at 1:28 AM on May 22, 2002
These are sideshows - they don't define (or defile) the circus. It's when the main attractions make free admission seem expensive that I begin to fret. Lately, even those discussions which earn internal esteem often seem predictable, repetitive, and...well...boring. Don't yell at me. I'm sure I'm just a bit super-saturated with ankle-deep commentary - geez, there's so much of it around. (And I certainly don't contribute anything worthwhile.)
I don't come for the links - I come looking for brain calisthenics. I expect a lot out of MetaFilterians - probably more than I should.
I do wish MetaFilter could discover a subtle way to acknowledge and reward the occasional outstanding comment. Nothing as garish as Plastic, but something...something to replace the sense of accomplishment which used to derive from simply hanging a good, provocative comment out there for all the world to see...when publishing to the world still seemed at least a little remarkable.
Don't mind me...I'm not really complaining...just a little work-and-warm-weather Weltschmerz, I'm sure...
posted by Opus Dark at 1:32 AM on May 22, 2002
I don't come for the links - I come looking for brain calisthenics. I expect a lot out of MetaFilterians - probably more than I should.
I do wish MetaFilter could discover a subtle way to acknowledge and reward the occasional outstanding comment. Nothing as garish as Plastic, but something...something to replace the sense of accomplishment which used to derive from simply hanging a good, provocative comment out there for all the world to see...when publishing to the world still seemed at least a little remarkable.
Don't mind me...I'm not really complaining...just a little work-and-warm-weather Weltschmerz, I'm sure...
posted by Opus Dark at 1:32 AM on May 22, 2002
F-M:
I don't usually pay that much attention, it was just very striking, that you made almost a public 'mea culpa' - ironically, of course - without a real apology. "Here's a joking reference to judging people...see, I don't really mean it when I laugh at the misfortunes of others... I'm an ok guy really, and not at all superficial. Honest"
posted by dash_slot- at 2:18 AM on May 22, 2002
I don't usually pay that much attention, it was just very striking, that you made almost a public 'mea culpa' - ironically, of course - without a real apology. "Here's a joking reference to judging people...see, I don't really mean it when I laugh at the misfortunes of others... I'm an ok guy really, and not at all superficial. Honest"
posted by dash_slot- at 2:18 AM on May 22, 2002
i received that snob link in my inbox this morning from my girlfriend. she is from the east end and i made reference to her being a 'jellied eel merchant'. we laughed.
you should try it.
posted by Frasermoo at 2:27 AM on May 22, 2002
you should try it.
posted by Frasermoo at 2:27 AM on May 22, 2002
This made me laugh (Fark-comments link)
05-20-02 02:27:17 PM Joejoe
aaargh, oh god, i ahdent ACTUALLY looked at the pic.... people like that should be newtered
Sounds like an interesting operation.
posted by Spoon at 3:19 AM on May 22, 2002
05-20-02 02:27:17 PM Joejoe
aaargh, oh god, i ahdent ACTUALLY looked at the pic.... people like that should be newtered
Sounds like an interesting operation.
posted by Spoon at 3:19 AM on May 22, 2002
bingo: hincandenza: What do their height and weight have to be to earn a position on your lap?
What exactly are you insinuating- that I'm picky?! Perhaps you should re-read what I wrote above regarding some men's (and for that matter, women's) ludicrous notions of "acceptable" levels of beauty. Yes, I think Vanessa Kay is attractive- your point being...? Are you suggesting some false dilemma exists between either holding FARK-like levels of Barbie-fying women or some kind of similarly intolerant demand that I only find attractive women who are stout, hairy-legged and frumpy?
Your tone- such as typewritten words can have a tone- seems accusatory, but I can't figure out what you're accusing me of.
posted by hincandenza at 3:38 AM on May 22, 2002
What exactly are you insinuating- that I'm picky?! Perhaps you should re-read what I wrote above regarding some men's (and for that matter, women's) ludicrous notions of "acceptable" levels of beauty. Yes, I think Vanessa Kay is attractive- your point being...? Are you suggesting some false dilemma exists between either holding FARK-like levels of Barbie-fying women or some kind of similarly intolerant demand that I only find attractive women who are stout, hairy-legged and frumpy?
Your tone- such as typewritten words can have a tone- seems accusatory, but I can't figure out what you're accusing me of.
posted by hincandenza at 3:38 AM on May 22, 2002
"i received that snob link in my inbox this morning from my girlfriend. she is from the east end and i made reference to her being a 'jellied eel merchant'. we laughed."
to me, thats poetry, the stuff opus calls circus (he's right) but good ones like this are the bread. the stuff that makes this whole sha-bang worth it......'jellied eel merchant' :)
posted by clavdivs at 6:26 AM on May 22, 2002
to me, thats poetry, the stuff opus calls circus (he's right) but good ones like this are the bread. the stuff that makes this whole sha-bang worth it......'jellied eel merchant' :)
posted by clavdivs at 6:26 AM on May 22, 2002
Well then...
I apologize for being less than Mensa-like in my comments. I knew the second I hit "post" on that thread, I'd regret it. I DO feel a certain sense of responsibility to this community and in retrospect, regret making such a stupid comment regarding her looks. See ya'll on the blue side.
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 6:26 AM on May 22, 2002
I apologize for being less than Mensa-like in my comments. I knew the second I hit "post" on that thread, I'd regret it. I DO feel a certain sense of responsibility to this community and in retrospect, regret making such a stupid comment regarding her looks. See ya'll on the blue side.
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 6:26 AM on May 22, 2002
Threads where people reveal themselves like this are priceless.
I am not sure that "priceless" is the word that I would use, but each post and comment does reflect on the poster, more than the subject. . .and stuff like the comments that triggered this thread make me doubly thankful for being able to read the comments of the many thoughtful men and women that participate in this and try to keep it at a higher level.
posted by Danf at 7:09 AM on May 22, 2002
I am not sure that "priceless" is the word that I would use, but each post and comment does reflect on the poster, more than the subject. . .and stuff like the comments that triggered this thread make me doubly thankful for being able to read the comments of the many thoughtful men and women that participate in this and try to keep it at a higher level.
posted by Danf at 7:09 AM on May 22, 2002
I think we need to remember it's a community, and a large one at that. Any statistician would be thrilled to draw bell curves all day with a sample size of 14,000. Of course the community itself is somewhat skewed, but you're still almost guaranteed to have at least one of everything. Would you have it any other way?
posted by pardonyou? at 7:27 AM on May 22, 2002
posted by pardonyou? at 7:27 AM on May 22, 2002
hincandenza: Maybe I misunderstood your tone when you said this:
If it's a Boobies-esque link, it immediately devolves into "she's ugly" and "she's fat" nonsense spouted by porcine shut-in losers, as if all women have to be 5'10", 100lbs, with huge fake breasts and too little muscle mass to fight back (I'm assuming that's the attraction).
What were you trying to imply?
posted by bingo at 8:16 AM on May 22, 2002
If it's a Boobies-esque link, it immediately devolves into "she's ugly" and "she's fat" nonsense spouted by porcine shut-in losers, as if all women have to be 5'10", 100lbs, with huge fake breasts and too little muscle mass to fight back (I'm assuming that's the attraction).
What were you trying to imply?
posted by bingo at 8:16 AM on May 22, 2002
Well, well, well. So I wake up this morning, and go to school and then decide to visit one of my favorite sites. And lo and behold I have been dragged into the time out corner! That was my post about hitting all the branches on the way down. I take full responsibility for bringing the state of conversation down in Metafilter. I will take all responsibility for every joke on that thread, every double post ever on MeFi and I will take full responsibility for the general deterioration here at our beloved MeFi.
For those of you with the sarcasm filter off, well that’s sarcasm. As mentioned somewhere above, I was responding to the thread’s insinuation of a cool mom. I chalk my post up to the lack of things to comment on. Sure I could have talked about why she had a kid at 17 and the continued degradation of the family unit in America. Or maybe how the rule of law is applied unevenly in liberal or conservative area. Or maybe discuss how body image and America is so closely aligned. But I took the pot shot and got out of the thread [I did call her a fuckwit though]. I took the easy shot, but as I am re-reading the thread, it started to pull itself together. I think that it is almost asking too much when you expect every thread to be of MENSA quality. The S/N ratio changes on a daily basis. There are many quality posts out there and quality threads, just seems that every lame or “insubstantial” thread gets pointed out and is brought into MeTa and people freak out about how this place is changing.
posted by plemeljr at 9:17 AM on May 22, 2002
For those of you with the sarcasm filter off, well that’s sarcasm. As mentioned somewhere above, I was responding to the thread’s insinuation of a cool mom. I chalk my post up to the lack of things to comment on. Sure I could have talked about why she had a kid at 17 and the continued degradation of the family unit in America. Or maybe how the rule of law is applied unevenly in liberal or conservative area. Or maybe discuss how body image and America is so closely aligned. But I took the pot shot and got out of the thread [I did call her a fuckwit though]. I took the easy shot, but as I am re-reading the thread, it started to pull itself together. I think that it is almost asking too much when you expect every thread to be of MENSA quality. The S/N ratio changes on a daily basis. There are many quality posts out there and quality threads, just seems that every lame or “insubstantial” thread gets pointed out and is brought into MeTa and people freak out about how this place is changing.
posted by plemeljr at 9:17 AM on May 22, 2002
For those of you with the sarcasm filter off, well that’s sarcasm.
That's sarcasm? Now I get it! Thanks!
Although I'm bummed that you're not actually taking responsibility for the decline of the site. Uh, I'm reading this right, aren't I? The sarcasm thing means you're kidding?
Geez, this is tough.
posted by Skot at 9:27 AM on May 22, 2002
That's sarcasm? Now I get it! Thanks!
Although I'm bummed that you're not actually taking responsibility for the decline of the site. Uh, I'm reading this right, aren't I? The sarcasm thing means you're kidding?
Geez, this is tough.
posted by Skot at 9:27 AM on May 22, 2002
bingo:
I didn't think it could have been clearer, actually. I'm re-reading that, trying to see how I could even rephrase it to be more obvious. I was condemning FARK's women-bashing tone, and their Howard Stern Show-esque way of thinking all women have to have the implant-enhanced skinny super model body- tall, painfully thin, but with huge breasts- even when those criticizing may be less than stellar models of physical perfection themselves, or when the woman's appearance wasn't remotely the issue at hand.
Seriously, what do you think I'm saying?!
posted by hincandenza at 9:39 AM on May 22, 2002
I didn't think it could have been clearer, actually. I'm re-reading that, trying to see how I could even rephrase it to be more obvious. I was condemning FARK's women-bashing tone, and their Howard Stern Show-esque way of thinking all women have to have the implant-enhanced skinny super model body- tall, painfully thin, but with huge breasts- even when those criticizing may be less than stellar models of physical perfection themselves, or when the woman's appearance wasn't remotely the issue at hand.
Seriously, what do you think I'm saying?!
posted by hincandenza at 9:39 AM on May 22, 2002
Although I'm bummed that you're not actually taking responsibility for the decline of the site. Uh, I'm reading this right, aren't I? The sarcasm thing means you're kidding?
Yeah...I wanted to make sure that everyone didn't take that bit of snarky-ness seriously. So when I am snarky...they know.
posted by plemeljr at 9:40 AM on May 22, 2002
Yeah...I wanted to make sure that everyone didn't take that bit of snarky-ness seriously. So when I am snarky...they know.
posted by plemeljr at 9:40 AM on May 22, 2002
Jim Jarmusch has built an entire career out of the inability to communicate that has been so succintly displayed in this bitesize MeTa thread.
posted by Kafkaesque at 9:52 AM on May 22, 2002
posted by Kafkaesque at 9:52 AM on May 22, 2002
Or John Lurie's sceen name.
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 10:05 AM on May 22, 2002
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 10:05 AM on May 22, 2002
But, woefully, the thread lacks a Tom Waits soundtrack.
That's a feature, not a bug.
posted by Skot at 10:07 AM on May 22, 2002
That's a feature, not a bug.
posted by Skot at 10:07 AM on May 22, 2002
nonsense spouted by porcine shut-in losers
Pot. Kettle. Have you two met? You'd like each other.
posted by haqspan at 11:17 AM on May 22, 2002
Pot. Kettle. Have you two met? You'd like each other.
posted by haqspan at 11:17 AM on May 22, 2002
Explaining how wonderful the sex industry is to people who have no interest in participating in it almost never goes over real well. Most women are already all too painfully aware of the fact that they don't look like a movie star. It's a legitimate question as to whether a personal reminder that you are unattractive is meant as a personal insult.
It's also legitimate for women to be wary of men who display antagonism towards unattractive females or women in general. (At least that's what they say in the pamphlets about "Avoiding Date Rape.")
posted by sheauga at 11:32 AM on May 22, 2002
It's also legitimate for women to be wary of men who display antagonism towards unattractive females or women in general. (At least that's what they say in the pamphlets about "Avoiding Date Rape.")
posted by sheauga at 11:32 AM on May 22, 2002
oh hey and speaking of rape, does anyone think it's a verb meaning "forcing to pay higher prices"?
Yahoo bought them out and is raping me now on hosting charges.
posted by jessamyn at 2:20 PM on May 22, 2002
Yahoo bought them out and is raping me now on hosting charges.
posted by jessamyn at 2:20 PM on May 22, 2002
Pot. Kettle. Have you two met? You'd like each other.
Oh, I'm sure you think you're clever, with a pithy little hit-and-run cliche comment. So are you suggesting I'm a porcine, shut-in loser? Let's say for argument's sake that I am (now while "porcine" might be appropriate, "loser" is debatable and "shut-in" is entirely wrong): what would that matter? If I'm critiquing men of poor physical appearance who are overly harsh and antagonistic towards women they deem not beautiful enough, then I'm pointing out and deriding the men's appearance only as a way of demonstrating their hypocrisy.
My own looks wouldn't matter since I am not myself making an issue of people's appearance in and of itself, so I don't understand why you're calling me a hypocrite. Now, if I were a porcine shut-in loser who was lambasting other porcine shut-in losers for being porcine shut-in losers, then I would be a hypocrite. That wouldn't necessarily make me wrong, by the way- just hypocrital. But that's irrelevent; I'm insulting porcine shut-in losers who demand beauty in others when they can't achieve it themselves- not the mere fact of their porcine shut-in loser-osity, which is sad and not particularly laughable.
Indeed, even if were a porcine shut-in loser who engaged in some armchair pop psychology and criticized another person I believe to be a porcine shut-in loser for letting their personal struggles and insecurities overwhelm them and manifest as an embittered and angry political or cultural philosophy (as I have sort of done here, and as I once did far more infamously in an extremely poor decision I made some time ago at MeFi that I won't dredge up here), that still wouldn't make me a hypocrite.
And hey, why am I being attacked here, first by bingo who apparently completely misunderstood what I was saying or something, and now by haqspan for no reason I can fathom? I don't recall having some track record or even current statements that are objectifying of women as nothing more than sex objects or reproductive technologies.
posted by hincandenza at 3:21 PM on May 22, 2002
Oh, I'm sure you think you're clever, with a pithy little hit-and-run cliche comment. So are you suggesting I'm a porcine, shut-in loser? Let's say for argument's sake that I am (now while "porcine" might be appropriate, "loser" is debatable and "shut-in" is entirely wrong): what would that matter? If I'm critiquing men of poor physical appearance who are overly harsh and antagonistic towards women they deem not beautiful enough, then I'm pointing out and deriding the men's appearance only as a way of demonstrating their hypocrisy.
My own looks wouldn't matter since I am not myself making an issue of people's appearance in and of itself, so I don't understand why you're calling me a hypocrite. Now, if I were a porcine shut-in loser who was lambasting other porcine shut-in losers for being porcine shut-in losers, then I would be a hypocrite. That wouldn't necessarily make me wrong, by the way- just hypocrital. But that's irrelevent; I'm insulting porcine shut-in losers who demand beauty in others when they can't achieve it themselves- not the mere fact of their porcine shut-in loser-osity, which is sad and not particularly laughable.
Indeed, even if were a porcine shut-in loser who engaged in some armchair pop psychology and criticized another person I believe to be a porcine shut-in loser for letting their personal struggles and insecurities overwhelm them and manifest as an embittered and angry political or cultural philosophy (as I have sort of done here, and as I once did far more infamously in an extremely poor decision I made some time ago at MeFi that I won't dredge up here), that still wouldn't make me a hypocrite.
And hey, why am I being attacked here, first by bingo who apparently completely misunderstood what I was saying or something, and now by haqspan for no reason I can fathom? I don't recall having some track record or even current statements that are objectifying of women as nothing more than sex objects or reproductive technologies.
posted by hincandenza at 3:21 PM on May 22, 2002
Jim Jarmusch has built an entire career out of the inability to communicate that has been so succintly displayed in this bitesize MeTa thread.
That would be me, out of shot, taking a noisy Joe Strummer pee.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 3:26 PM on May 22, 2002
That would be me, out of shot, taking a noisy Joe Strummer pee.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 3:26 PM on May 22, 2002
oh hey and speaking of rape, does anyone think it's a verb meaning "forcing to pay higher prices"?
Given the recent evolution of common usage of the term, I would have to say yes.
I'm guessing that that offends you and you would prefer to limit the word to its primary meaning? But the fact of the matter is, whatever you or I may feel about such things, that's not how language works. It will change, splinter, fracture, revert, specialize, and transpose. A word is only tied to a thing so long as consensus agrees that it is, and there's no way to enforce an exclusive tie. Most words that have been around any length of time have at least connotatively different meanings, if not literal multiple definitions.
And that's what makes language cool, even if it results in awkwardness or unpleasantness at times.
posted by rushmc at 5:47 PM on May 22, 2002
Given the recent evolution of common usage of the term, I would have to say yes.
I'm guessing that that offends you and you would prefer to limit the word to its primary meaning? But the fact of the matter is, whatever you or I may feel about such things, that's not how language works. It will change, splinter, fracture, revert, specialize, and transpose. A word is only tied to a thing so long as consensus agrees that it is, and there's no way to enforce an exclusive tie. Most words that have been around any length of time have at least connotatively different meanings, if not literal multiple definitions.
And that's what makes language cool, even if it results in awkwardness or unpleasantness at times.
posted by rushmc at 5:47 PM on May 22, 2002
oh hey and speaking of rape, does anyone think it's a verb meaning "forcing to pay higher prices"?
I don't use it with that meaning, but it seems that in the past decade more and more people use the word to mean "taking advantage of." You'll hear it every so often in the pinball world, i.e. "Rape - Taking advantage of design flaws in a game to score obscene amounts of points."
posted by gluechunk at 5:50 PM on May 22, 2002
I don't use it with that meaning, but it seems that in the past decade more and more people use the word to mean "taking advantage of." You'll hear it every so often in the pinball world, i.e. "Rape - Taking advantage of design flaws in a game to score obscene amounts of points."
posted by gluechunk at 5:50 PM on May 22, 2002
hincandenza: When you said this
If it's a Boobies-esque link, it immediately devolves into "she's ugly" and "she's fat" nonsense spouted by porcine shut-in losers, as if all women have to be 5'10", 100lbs, with huge fake breasts and too little muscle mass to fight back (I'm assuming that's the attraction).
I thought that you criticizing men who follow what you might call "conventional" or "mainstream" ideas of beauty. You say "I'm assuming that's the attraction," suggesting to me that you yourself are not attracted to tall, slender women with large breasts, or even that you are not nearly superficial enough to even engage in such qualitative comparisons. I admit that I was confused from the beginning by the inclusion of "porcine" in your descriptor of these people you're deriding...then it starts to sound like you're deriding those who think that fat is unattractive, and then you are showing yourself to be one such person. In that light, I posted a link to a comment you made about your desire for a relatively well-known actress/model who, if not 5'10", certainly fits with the thin and fake boobs requirements.
And to be honest, I still think what I said was valid. My link bears direct relevance to this comment, for example:
My own looks wouldn't matter since I am not myself making an issue of people's appearance in and of itself, so I don't understand why you're calling me a hypocrite.
However, I also disagree with your assertion that there is something hypocrytical in wanting to see beauty in others when you lack it yourself. It's true that an ugly person with high standards of physical beauty in a mate may, all other things being equal, spend a lot of lonely nights if he/she doesn't compromise those standards. But possession and appreciation of beauty (or anything else) are not the same thing.
And this:
Now, if I were a porcine shut-in loser who was lambasting other porcine shut-in losers for being porcine shut-in losers, then I would be a hypocrite.
as self-deprecating as it is, is just not true. You can lambast a group that includes yourself; that doesn't make you a hypocrite, it makes you self-critical.
I think that throughout this thread you have been doing some bewildering logical jumping jacks. It's hard to criticize specifically because you're spreading it out so thinly.
sheagua: Most women are already all too painfully aware of the fact that they don't look like a movie star. It's a legitimate question as to whether a personal reminder that you are unattractive is meant as a personal insult.
Who are you talking about? Is the woman who threw the slumber party in this discussion? Who gave a personal reminder to whom of their unattractiveness, and who asked the legitimate question as to whether it was a personal insult?
posted by bingo at 6:00 PM on May 22, 2002
If it's a Boobies-esque link, it immediately devolves into "she's ugly" and "she's fat" nonsense spouted by porcine shut-in losers, as if all women have to be 5'10", 100lbs, with huge fake breasts and too little muscle mass to fight back (I'm assuming that's the attraction).
I thought that you criticizing men who follow what you might call "conventional" or "mainstream" ideas of beauty. You say "I'm assuming that's the attraction," suggesting to me that you yourself are not attracted to tall, slender women with large breasts, or even that you are not nearly superficial enough to even engage in such qualitative comparisons. I admit that I was confused from the beginning by the inclusion of "porcine" in your descriptor of these people you're deriding...then it starts to sound like you're deriding those who think that fat is unattractive, and then you are showing yourself to be one such person. In that light, I posted a link to a comment you made about your desire for a relatively well-known actress/model who, if not 5'10", certainly fits with the thin and fake boobs requirements.
And to be honest, I still think what I said was valid. My link bears direct relevance to this comment, for example:
My own looks wouldn't matter since I am not myself making an issue of people's appearance in and of itself, so I don't understand why you're calling me a hypocrite.
However, I also disagree with your assertion that there is something hypocrytical in wanting to see beauty in others when you lack it yourself. It's true that an ugly person with high standards of physical beauty in a mate may, all other things being equal, spend a lot of lonely nights if he/she doesn't compromise those standards. But possession and appreciation of beauty (or anything else) are not the same thing.
And this:
Now, if I were a porcine shut-in loser who was lambasting other porcine shut-in losers for being porcine shut-in losers, then I would be a hypocrite.
as self-deprecating as it is, is just not true. You can lambast a group that includes yourself; that doesn't make you a hypocrite, it makes you self-critical.
I think that throughout this thread you have been doing some bewildering logical jumping jacks. It's hard to criticize specifically because you're spreading it out so thinly.
sheagua: Most women are already all too painfully aware of the fact that they don't look like a movie star. It's a legitimate question as to whether a personal reminder that you are unattractive is meant as a personal insult.
Who are you talking about? Is the woman who threw the slumber party in this discussion? Who gave a personal reminder to whom of their unattractiveness, and who asked the legitimate question as to whether it was a personal insult?
posted by bingo at 6:00 PM on May 22, 2002
" Is this what we've become?"
you and your tapeworms maybe.
i still have class, as well as quite a few others here.
posted by jcterminal at 7:17 PM on May 22, 2002
you and your tapeworms maybe.
i still have class, as well as quite a few others here.
posted by jcterminal at 7:17 PM on May 22, 2002
oh hey and speaking of rape, does anyone think it's a verb meaning "forcing to pay higher prices"?
Have you never said that interest rates, your boss, the phone company, whatever was "killing" you? Sure you have. Same thing.
posted by brittney at 6:04 PM on May 23, 2002
Have you never said that interest rates, your boss, the phone company, whatever was "killing" you? Sure you have. Same thing.
posted by brittney at 6:04 PM on May 23, 2002
You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments
posted by Perigee at 5:19 PM on May 21, 2002