What was surprising to me was how many people whose positions I totally agreed with I felt were being weirdly sneering in that thread.
I try my very best to be understanding of all viewpoints, but at the same time it's a very important part of my core philosophy on life that there is immutable TRUTH in the universe. I haven't honestly worked out all of my own opinions on this issue. I'm still thinking, exploring, and talking to people on both sides. However, if asked to do so, I would vote against legislation that would give an official stamp of approval to gay marriage. The simple reason is this: I honestly and sincerely believe that in voting against such legislation, I would act in the best interests of those who are gay. (I realize that this probably sounds ridiculous to gay people reading this. You likely don't want me acting in your best interests against you expressed will, and I can understand that. However, please try to understand me. My conscience will not allow me to do something even at your request that I feel will bring you a great deal of pain and suffering at a later date.)
(Again, please don't write me to argue for either side on gay marriage. I'm still studying, reading, listening, and making up my mind. This is my stance at this point, and I would prefer not to argue.)
(I know those of you to the left are probably rolling your eyes at all of us on the right. This essay probably won't make you any more hopeful of our 'coming around.' I hope those of you who advocate gay rights will be bemused at our curmudgeonly ways, instead of ranting and yelling at us. One of the things that interests me most about this debate is that those who cry for open mindedness often seem to be as hateful and unwilling to look from someone else's perspective as the people on the far right. Rationally work to enlighten us through thoughtful nudging. Don't call us idiots and homophobes. It really doesn't help.)
Help maintain a healthy, respectful discussion by focusing comments on the issues, topics, and facts at hand—not at other members of the site.
Rationally work to enlighten us through thoughtful nudging. Don't call us idiots and homophobes. It really doesn't help.
I know that I'm going to get no end of shit for this here, but:
1) For you, never mind your parents, to be concerned about your "gender" at the age of six, is WAAAY too early. You'll have plenty of time to reflect on this when the hormones kick in in about eight years' time. Trust me.
2) For me, if you've got a penis, you're a "he". Sorry if that hurts your feelings, but I haven't got any time for such gender-politics bullshit. Cope with it.
3) I can't avoid thinking about this scene. I wonder why.
are absolutely determined to take a "You're either with us or against us!!" attitude then in that circumstance I'd probably choose to be against you
Corb said that this proposal: "the school offers an intermediary alternative (nurses's bathroom/transgender bathroom) until they make a formal determination. It weeds out the people who would want to try to abuse the system, because those people are not going to have the dedication to try to live one way just for it. " was essentially what "what happened with Coy, albeit on a more long-term scale"
Personally (and as someone who's a straight cis guy, so I don't have the lived experience): it's a fair compromise in the general situation, but for Coy isn't it kind of already over? The school isn't the one that should do the investigation - this is not their area of expertise, nor should it be. The investigation, assuming for now that there needs to be one, would essentially be done by doctors / the State [in the form of identity documents]. Here, she has those, so the school should just be saying ok we're all done here.
They're not, they think they have a right to be involved with that determination. And I think that raises a lot of warning signs for people, because usually whenever there's a party that shouldn't care pushing hard to be involved in a decision, it's meant that they're coming at it from a place of bigotry.
I'm just skeptical that the child chose to be identified as a transsexual or even fully understands what that means.
Anyway, I am trans, and I found the thread on Coy very hard to read. It was far more hurtful than I usually find MeFi to be on this particular topic. I did spend some time on another message board in a thread on the same topic -- a community that is typically far more transphobic than MeFi is -- and somehow that thread found itself more much welcoming than the MeFi thread was.
But really, frankly, the biggest piece of skin I have in this one is my human skin, and my religious skin. All people deserve respect and honor. All people are my neighbor. The idea that someone could say "You will never be happy, because your happiness would cause me to have to re-examine the way I assume the world works, and I refuse to do that". . . well, I don't believe in sin, but if I did, that would be about the closest thing to it that I can imagine.
I also want to say that TwoXChromosomes is sort of terrible; they coddle the "men's rights activist" trolls so hard that half the time when you are talking about anything woman-related you get like 100 "as a white cis man with no experience or stake in what you're talking about, I'm gonna run my mouth like an ass after bad meat" comments. With a few exceptions and social justice related subreddits, reddit is still sort of a shithole, and there's a reason I come back to metafilter.
...some transwomen - not all, but some - are not quite women yet - they're lacking in a fundamental piece of what it means to be a woman for a lot of us, which is that sense of solidarity and mutual aid.
... that statement constructed as "[minority subset] [type of person] are not quite [type of person], because..." feels like an alert light, especially when people belonging to that subset were clearly engaged in the conversation. I am trying to think of a similar construction where "trans woman" has been replaced by another minority subset and another type of person and it is not a four-alarm crash, and really struggling.
And I would love to see some lists, without calling out specific people or necessarily debating, what people think are the top things that are unacceptable bigotry vs. eyeroll-worthy tedious ignorance. I feel like I have a pretty good handle on that when it comes to, say, sexism or homophobia, but I'm less well-educated on trans issues.
In addition, even transgender girls who do not access hormone blockers or cross-gender hormones display a great deal of physical variation, just as there is a great deal of natural variation in physical size and ability among non-transgender girls and boys. Many people may have a stereotype that all transgender girls and women are unusually tall and have large bones and muscles. But that is not true. A male-to-female transgender girl may be small and slight, even if she is not on hormone blockers or taking estrogen. It is important not to over generalize. The assumption that all malebodied people are taller, stronger, and more highly skilled in a sport than all female-bodied people is not accurate. This assumption is especially inaccurate when applied to youth who are still developing physically and who therefore display a significantly broader range of variation in size, strength, and skill than older youth and adults.
It is also important to know that any athletic advantages a transgender girl or woman arguably may have as a result of her prior testosterone levels dissipate after about one year of estrogen therapy. According to medical experts on this issue, the assumption that a transgender girl or woman competing on a women’s team would have a competitive advantage outside the range of performance and competitive advantage or disadvantage that already exists among female athletes is not supported by evidence. As one survey of the existing research concludes, “the data available does not appear to suggest that transitioned athletes would compete at an advantage or disadvantage as compared with physically born men and women.”