Does anyone else feel Metafilter's moderation culture is ridiculous? August 28, 2015 8:29 AM   Subscribe

I joined Metafilter because I was interested in community feedback, not the feedback of the same tiny handful of moderators who all think alike.

I have never in 20 years of online life dealt with a community whose moderators delete nearly everything I post. I am not a convicted criminal. I am neither obscene nor unclear. I am not disrespectful unless someone else is, and even then I try not to. I am also not a self-important 15-year-old boy with delusions of superiority. So it's unclear and baffling how anyone becomes a moderator or how the community can give feedback as to the quality of moderation. I literally felt I had more freedom online while in an airport in China for a 10-hour layover.

I am especially peeved a thoroughly authentic question on Ask MeFi regarding the palatableness of viewing pregnant women as default humans also (you know, on top of gay people, old people, young people, and handicapped people) just got deleted by apparently a female moderator who calls herself Jeremy. Seriously? Am I not supposed to jump to the conclusion I have been subject to prejudice here?

God forbid someone on Metafilter is not just regurgitating the same party line maximizing the empowerment of the same favorite groups of people who feel marginalized.

#feelingunfairlysilencedandmarginalized
#fuckyourechochambermetafiltermoderators
posted by knowgood to Etiquette/Policy at 8:29 AM (531 comments total) 12 users marked this as a favorite

I'm surprised this made it through the moderation queue, frankly. Is there really anything that can be discussed?
posted by gilrain at 8:33 AM on August 28, 2015 [39 favorites]


by apparently a female moderator who calls herself Jeremy. Seriously?

Seriously? Seriously.

what
posted by rtha at 8:36 AM on August 28, 2015 [156 favorites]


The deleted AskMe read as a thesis you were opening up for debate, not a question you wanted answers to, which falls under the "rants posing as questions" and/or "open-ended hypothetical questions"part of this FAQ answer. AskMe is a very structured section of the site, with some hard-and-fast rules and we're quicker to delete there than anywhere else.

Opening a thread here or contacting us via the contact form are both good ways of discussing moderation - for simple questions, the latter is preferred, but if you want the whole community to weigh in, that's exactly what MetaTalk is for. We're staffed 24/7 and you can generally expect a reply to a contact form within 15 minutes on weekdays (up to an hour on the weekends.) MetaTalk questions sometimes take longer to be approved, as they're resource-intensive for us and we want to make sure we have people around.

I'm not sure where you're going with the point about my gender, so if you'd like to clarify that, feel free - otherwise I'll just let it pass.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 8:36 AM on August 28, 2015 [106 favorites]


Does anyone else feel Metafilter's moderation culture is ridiculous?

Yup! Some people do! Other people don't! Maybe you guys can get t-shirts? It's always really nice to feel like you're a part of something.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 8:37 AM on August 28, 2015 [101 favorites]


No.

This has been another exciting episode of short answers to long questions. See you next week!
posted by eriko at 8:38 AM on August 28, 2015 [157 favorites]


I read your deleted ask and I'm not really seeing an answerable question there, or a problem that askme can help you solve.
posted by rtha at 8:38 AM on August 28, 2015 [44 favorites]


Stunt post is stunty.
posted by asterix at 8:39 AM on August 28, 2015 [15 favorites]


Look. If we didn't have deletions we wouldn't have people all up in arms about being silenced all their lives. And if we didn't have people all up in arms about being silenced all their lives then I wouldn't get a couple of cheap lols this morning. So relax, take a deep breath, and think about what you're doing for others instead.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:40 AM on August 28, 2015 [30 favorites]


Yeah, having read the question that was deleted, that specific thing seems like a misunderstanding of aspects of the site and site culture; AskMe is actually just for asking and answering questions. That's it. Any post that's not a question to be answered (not discussed or debated, answered) will be deleted. Any answer that isn't an answer will be deleted.

Think of it as being told not to drive on the sidewalk; it's not that you can't use your car anywhere, it's just that the sidewalk really isn't the place for that.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 8:41 AM on August 28, 2015 [58 favorites]


As exemplified by restless_nomad's incredibly patient comment in this thread, given the tone of the post and personal insult directed at her, I will once again go on record as saying I think the moderators on Metafilter are not only some of the best moderators anywhere, but some of the best, most patent people on the face of the planet.

Most of the rest of us would probably have just told you to cram it.
posted by bondcliff at 8:42 AM on August 28, 2015 [266 favorites]


Is this a parody of some kind? I mean, yes, it's funny, and you've kind of captured the whiny-ness of people who complain about moderation here, but I honestly think it's also too over the top. I understand that parody is by its nature hyperbolic but no one could be this much of an ass.
posted by MoonOrb at 8:43 AM on August 28, 2015 [33 favorites]


I am so fond of restless_nomad's moderation style that I decided to marry her (true story).
posted by Alex Haist at 8:44 AM on August 28, 2015 [335 favorites]


Thanks for the good laugh this morning!
posted by desjardins at 8:46 AM on August 28, 2015 [5 favorites]


It's true, she reads over my shoulder and cheers all the time.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 8:46 AM on August 28, 2015 [145 favorites]


Also, I read your deleted question and it makes me feel like this.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:46 AM on August 28, 2015 [25 favorites]


Hi. I am part of this community. I have been pregnant. I am as human as anyone else I know, though I would call none of us default. I do not speak for Metafilter as a whole or for anyone except myself.

That said, here is my feedback, as one individual: I have no idea what the fuck that question was about.
posted by Metroid Baby at 8:47 AM on August 28, 2015 [137 favorites]


I am so fond of restless_nomad's moderation style that I decided to marry her (true story).

What really? You two are married? That is WONDERFUL! Yay! I love it when people make each other happy! It is basically my favorite thing! Hooray for both of you!
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 8:48 AM on August 28, 2015 [47 favorites]


It's a good thing you added the tags "echo" and "chamber" in addition to "echochamber" in case people in the future search for MeTa threads that want validation that this place is indeed either an echo chamber or echochamber can easily find it!
posted by ignignokt at 8:48 AM on August 28, 2015 [34 favorites]


In 15 years of online life myself, I have often seen the contingency of site cultures, and that they can be very different and still very good besides. But given that this site itself has more than a decade of history and people who have been here also for years, sometimes more than a decade... you should have lurked a few orders of magnitude more and understood the site before paying the money. Lots of places on the internet where you can have unmoderated freedom, but this really isn't one of them.

V. Frankl once called for a Statue of Responsibility to be built in the west coast of the US, to counterbalance the Statue of Liberty on the east. I've always thought highly of this suggestion, because freedom without responsibility is the root of alienation.
posted by curuinor at 8:49 AM on August 28, 2015 [11 favorites]


Does anyone else feel Metafilter's moderation culture is ridiculous?

See, this is the kind of question that, even if it weren't about Metafilter, wouldn't be appropriate for AskMe. You're basically asking "What do you think of this idea I have: Metafilter moderation is ridiculous."? There is no right or best answer to that question. It's not a question, it's a conversation starter, but AskMe isn't for conversation. That makes it perfectly appropriate for Metatalk, where we have conversations about Metafilter, but again, even if it weren't about Metafilter, this isn't the kind of question AskMe is for.

Your AskMe post was the same: "What do you think of this idea I have?" That is not a solvable question. Wait a week, post a question that is actually a question, and I bet it won't get deleted.

And to answer the non-question you started with: Yes, surely someone else feels that way. That is the actual answer to your question. Do you feel like your question has been answered and solved? Probably not because it wasn't actually a question meant for solving. Like your AskMe.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 8:50 AM on August 28, 2015 [20 favorites]


I am also uncertain if this is some kind of performance art, but if you are asking sincerely: I'm here because of the moderation.

It is super weird to show up at a website a bunch of people are clearly using and enjoying and demand it change. Maybe try a different website, if you don't like this one?
posted by Lyn Never at 8:51 AM on August 28, 2015 [76 favorites]


What really? You two are married? That is WONDERFUL! Yay! I love it when people make each other happy! It is basically my favorite thing! Hooray for both of you!

Seconding Mrs. Pterodactyl - happy people in love make my heart all warm and gleeful! Congratulations and many, many joyful years together!
posted by DingoMutt at 8:51 AM on August 28, 2015 [5 favorites]


Your deleted AskMe doesn't actually ask a question that can be usefully answered. AskMe is not a chat board.

Your broader problem seems to fall more into "I want this site to work the way I want it to work, not the way it has historically worked or the way its broader userbase want it to work." I think this falls pretty squarely into "get your own blog" territory.
posted by Wretch729 at 8:51 AM on August 28, 2015 [20 favorites]


i don't get into measuring contests about length of membership because they're almost always dumb, but come on, unless this is a bnd you've been here less than 60 days. settle in, get to know the site culture a little bit. or, don't. but what you're doing here? that's not gonna work in the long run...
posted by nadawi at 8:51 AM on August 28, 2015 [9 favorites]


I'm surprised this made it through the moderation queue, frankly. Is there really anything that can be discussed?

Yeah, plus there's a pretty good chance this turns into a massive pile-on.
posted by notyou at 8:51 AM on August 28, 2015 [2 favorites]


eponydisturbing, octobersurprise.

I'm 99.5 % happy with the moderation here (which has slowly changed, I believe mostly for the good).

The question you put up? Doesn't even ping my radar as a "once this would have been ok". Chatfilter, yo.

I think this post is a stealth way to try to get eyes on your drawing, myself. Welp, I looked at it, so I guess it worked?
posted by nat at 8:52 AM on August 28, 2015 [9 favorites]


oh hell yes oh hell yes oh hell yes

happy friday
posted by Greg Nog at 8:52 AM on August 28, 2015 [58 favorites]


Just adding my two cents to say that if it weren't for the incredibly thoughtful and hardworking moderators, Metafilter would be a shadow of the site I know and love, and the resulting site wouldn't likely hold my interest.
posted by duffell at 8:53 AM on August 28, 2015 [13 favorites]


Well, I've managed to go this long without installing a killfille script, but the time has come.

So, who here likes pancakes?
posted by tonycpsu at 8:53 AM on August 28, 2015 [2 favorites]


On top of regular women, can we accept very pregnant women

in certain videos yes but it's kind of a niche fetish
posted by Greg Nog at 8:53 AM on August 28, 2015 [60 favorites]


Yeah, plus there's a pretty good chance this turns into a massive pile-on.

Turns into?
posted by Elementary Penguin at 8:53 AM on August 28, 2015 [5 favorites]


So what else have you posted and had deleted, btw?
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 8:54 AM on August 28, 2015 [3 favorites]


The existence of this post suggests that its content is contradictory. If you were as silenced-all-my-life as you suggest, would we hear it?

That said,
I am not a convicted criminal. Not particularly relevant. I mean, I'd be concerned if someone was a convicted criminal and was getting shut down because of that.
I am neither obscene nor unclear. Necessary, but not sufficient. As people are noting above, I didn't see an answerable question in the one you linked. That's one of the core hard limits of AskMe. It'd be like if you posted a question to the main Metafilter subsite. It'd get deleted because that's not where that goes. Not as animosity against you, but because each place is for specific things.
I am not disrespectful unless someone else is, and even then I try not to. Also valuable.
I am also not a self-important 15-year-old boy with delusions of superiority. With all due respect, the vitriol that's coming up about how your question was deleted out of some sort of ideological disagreement does suggest self-importance.

I'm not sure where the idea came from that it's about authenticity. I'm absolutely certain that you'd find a lot of support for empowering/de-marginalizing pregnant women within society here. I've seen many threads to that effect, and if you were to find something interesting on the web about that to share, I'm sure people would comment freely on it. This appears to have just been a category error. We've all made those.
posted by CrystalDave at 8:54 AM on August 28, 2015 [9 favorites]


We are engaged! We almost eloped in Minnesota, but it would have upset our mothers too much.
posted by Alex Haist at 8:55 AM on August 28, 2015 [142 favorites]


Most of the rest of us would probably have just told you to cram it.

Indeed. With walnuts.
posted by Sys Rq at 8:55 AM on August 28, 2015 [7 favorites]


Given your minimal level of engagement with the site suggests to me that you aren't really familiar with the community.
posted by Kitteh at 8:56 AM on August 28, 2015 [6 favorites]


Maybe we can just turn this into a massive congratulations thread for restless_nomad and Alex Haist.

CONGRATULATIONS! :D
posted by gilrain at 8:57 AM on August 28, 2015 [137 favorites]


knowgood: I see you're relatively new to metafilter. Welcome!

I lurked here for about 6 years before I got an account (I didn't feel a need to comment for a very long time, as my sentiments were generally already expressed by some other member).

So, the thing is, like many other places on the internet there is a bit of a metafilter culture. Most of us are pretty used to it (but we whine and complain as well! look at past metatalks for plenty of examples of that, with some burnouts and flameouts as a bonus). If you spend a bit of time here, you'll get an idea of the moderation style.

Most of us who comment at all frequently have an occasional comment deleted; sometimes we're pretty unhappy about it... But most of us are here explicitly because of the moderation style and quality of discourse.

If you contact the mods they'll most likely be really happy to give you specific feedback about specific comments that have been deleted.

Also, it's one thing to tell the hard-working moderators to fuck off in your post... But it's kind of against metafilter etiquette to use hashtags. This isn't twitter.
posted by el io at 8:58 AM on August 28, 2015 [32 favorites]


We almost eloped in Minnesota, but it would have upset our mothers too much.

You know, it's a crime to upset your mother in Minnesota, so that was a good decision.

Congratulations!
posted by eriko at 8:58 AM on August 28, 2015 [48 favorites]


Also, the opening of your Metatalk post (I joined Metafilter because I was interested in community feedback) combined with the type of feedback you were seeking in your AskMe question, leads me to think that you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what Metafilter is. And that's fine. But that's not really a flaw in Metafilter, any more than "this isn't a Peter Frampton LP" is a flaw in a juicy peach.
posted by duffell at 8:59 AM on August 28, 2015 [111 favorites]


This is the best MeTa I have read in a very long time.

And congrats r_n and Alex Haist!
posted by griphus at 8:59 AM on August 28, 2015 [8 favorites]


The original AskMe would do great in a place like Reddit's /r/showerthoughts.
posted by softlord at 8:59 AM on August 28, 2015 [7 favorites]


Yeah but ... two females that call themselves Alex and Jeremy getting married? Seriously?
posted by DingoMutt at 8:59 AM on August 28, 2015 [14 favorites]


> So, who here likes pancakes?

Popcorn-flavored pancakes!
posted by rtha at 8:59 AM on August 28, 2015 [4 favorites]


Yeah, I'm not seeing the purpose of this post either.

What are you up to, knowgood?
posted by Toubab at 9:00 AM on August 28, 2015 [32 favorites]


<jedi>This is not the site you're looking for.</jedi>
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:00 AM on August 28, 2015 [7 favorites]


Essays and conceptual art about pregnant women as default humans belongs in Projects, hth
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:00 AM on August 28, 2015 [15 favorites]


Scoreboard update:

Love: ∞
Hate: 0
(F)

posted by tonycpsu at 9:01 AM on August 28, 2015 [12 favorites]


Holy shit.

I really wish this had not made it through the queue because it poisons the well for actual discussion and critique of moderation on Metafilter. This is nothing but stupidity.
posted by Justinian at 9:02 AM on August 28, 2015 [15 favorites]


"this isn't a Peter Frampton LP" is a flaw in a juicy peach.

Shall I grow my hair behind? Do I dare to buy a Peter Frampton LP?
posted by uncleozzy at 9:02 AM on August 28, 2015 [39 favorites]


To be fair to the mods I understand the difficulty in not allowing a Metapost about moderation to make it through the moderation queue. But just... wow.
posted by Justinian at 9:02 AM on August 28, 2015 [5 favorites]


Prufrock Comes Alive!
posted by griphus at 9:03 AM on August 28, 2015 [70 favorites]


The original AskMe would do great in a place like Reddit's /r/showerthoughts.

Yeah, you might consider trying to find an actual appropriate place for that discussion. I have some thoughts, but they're not appropriate to post here (or AskMe). I'll memail you. One way would be, as suggested above, to put together a web site/write an essay/whatever on default persons and put it on Projects.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 9:03 AM on August 28, 2015 [1 favorite]


I really wish this had not made it through the queue because it poisons the well for actual discussion and critique of moderation on Metafilter.

Nonsense, it makes a wonderful thread for congratulating restless_nomad and Alex Haist for their nuptials.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:04 AM on August 28, 2015 [31 favorites]


the best part of this post is that it's so terrible that i suspect even mefi's most outspoken Members Against Moderation will decline to ally themselves with it, even if just to make their own complants seem far more reasonable in comparison.
posted by poffin boffin at 9:04 AM on August 28, 2015 [41 favorites]


I have never, in 35 years of online life, seen someone so clearly and thoroughly miss the simple instructions for making an askme post.

Okay, that's a lie, I'm sure I have. But mostly I wanted to congratulate restless_nomad and Alex Haist on their marriage. Hooray! *happy dance*
posted by rmd1023 at 9:05 AM on August 28, 2015 [4 favorites]


so this post is donald trump?
posted by nadawi at 9:05 AM on August 28, 2015 [18 favorites]


Does anyone else feel Metafilter's moderation culture is ridiculous?

Only those who don't want to be here and who don't realize that the mod culture is the heart of what makes MetaFilter so wonderful.

Also, I too note your noobiness, and speaking as someone who is now a 6 year veteran, I will at last get to do what I have wanted to do for those 6 years, which is to say repeat the response I got to one of my first utterances here from a MeFi veteran: LURK MOAR.

I realize this sounds harsh but I'd suggest it is very good advice for now.
posted by bearwife at 9:05 AM on August 28, 2015 [4 favorites]


I'm so happy for y'all, Alex and r_n! May your days together be filled with joy! *throws favorites like confetti*
posted by Metroid Baby at 9:06 AM on August 28, 2015 [7 favorites]


the best part of this post is that it's so terrible that i suspect even mefi's most outspoken Members Against Moderation will decline to ally themselves with it, even if just to make their own complants seem far more reasonable in comparison.

it's like the Donald Trump of meta posts
posted by desjardins at 9:06 AM on August 28, 2015 [5 favorites]


Only those who don't want to be here...

Yeah I can name about a half-dozen members who have loudly not wanted to be here for years.
posted by griphus at 9:07 AM on August 28, 2015 [78 favorites]


Nthing the congratulations to restless_nomad and Alex Haist! I'm so happy for you!
posted by C'est la D.C. at 9:07 AM on August 28, 2015 [4 favorites]


I would have voted No Award on this post, but then I wouldn't have been able to congratulate the happy couple.
posted by eriko at 9:08 AM on August 28, 2015 [16 favorites]


wOMAN? have MAN NAME? gork not sure how hapen but gork ANGRY!
posted by poffin boffin at 9:09 AM on August 28, 2015 [128 favorites]


I have never, in 35 years of online life, seen someone so clearly and thoroughly miss the simple instructions for making an askme post.

My favorite AskMe ever was like a week after AskMe started when someone asked who was the band who did Stairway to Heaven.

Congrats, restless_nomad and Alex Haist. Assuming those are your real names, I mean.
posted by bondcliff at 9:09 AM on August 28, 2015 [21 favorites]


My two favorite sites are metafilter and boardgamegeek. A common theme on both sites is people showing up to complain about moderation. Moderation that I see as incredibly consistent, (mostly) thankless and essential to keeping the site discourse appropriate.

I've come to just smile a little inside whenever I see a rant like this because it reminds me I'm in the right place.
posted by meinvt at 9:09 AM on August 28, 2015 [8 favorites]


r_n and Alex, may you silence each other all of your lives.
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:10 AM on August 28, 2015 [154 favorites]


Congrats, restless_nomad and Alex Haist. Assuming those are your real names, I mean.

Oh my God does the nomenclature get hairy in this house. It's a good thing we have a year before the wedding, because it's going to take that long to figure out what I'm changing my legal name to.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 9:11 AM on August 28, 2015 [68 favorites]


"this isn't a Peter Frampton LP" is a flaw in a juicy peach.

I don't have time right now to mock up Peter and the Giant Peach so you'll just have to imagine it.

even mefi's most outspoken Members Against Moderation will decline to ally themselves with it

Even Potsie approves!
posted by octobersurprise at 9:12 AM on August 28, 2015 [2 favorites]


because it's going to take that long to figure out what I'm changing my legal name to.

You better figure it out post-Haist. Or better yet, pre.

Apologies if you hear this joke every ten minutes. Further apologies if it's not actually pronounced like that
posted by bondcliff at 9:13 AM on August 28, 2015 [85 favorites]


It's a good thing we have a year before the wedding, because it's going to take that long to figure out what I'm changing my legal name to.

restful_homebody?
posted by eriko at 9:13 AM on August 28, 2015 [14 favorites]


restful_homebody?

Nah, we just road-trip together, now.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 9:14 AM on August 28, 2015 [32 favorites]


just got deleted by apparently a female moderator who calls herself Jeremy. Seriously?

Asking for people to accept "very pregnant women as default humans" while mocking the name of an actual woman because it doesn't fit your standards is pretty damned shameful.

--

Congratulations, restless_nomad and Alex Haist. May you have long, joy-filled, loving and wonderfully happy lives together!
posted by zarq at 9:15 AM on August 28, 2015 [59 favorites]


Hey, will this make Alex the first official MeFi ModSpouse? I hope that comes with all kinds of special swag.
posted by DingoMutt at 9:16 AM on August 28, 2015 [4 favorites]


> I joined Metafilter because I was interested in community feedback,

Well, you did the right thing by posting here in MetaTalk. This is the area where comments are much less likely to be deleted, so you should be getting plenty of feedback from the community.

> I am also not a self-important 15-year-old boy with delusions of superiority.

That's what you sound like to me, from reading what you said so far. Maybe there are other, better aspects to you. If you stick around they may surface.

> ... regarding the palatableness of viewing pregnant women as default humans also

Like this, right here. My brain is screaming "self-important 15-year-old". I mean, not only do I not know what you mean by this, I don't even know which community you've been immersing yourself in where the phrase "default human" is used. I don't know, but the phrase has a certain gloss of ugliness, and I'm not eager to find out more.

> ... by apparently a female moderator who calls herself Jeremy ...

We certainly discourage comments like this shit here. "What the fuck business is it of yours what name, pronoun, or gender someone else uses/is/has/etc?" is one of the community ethos I admire most about MetaFilter. Also, congrats restless_nomad and Alex Haist!

> Does anyone else feel Metafilter's moderation culture is ridiculous?

I'm here because of the moderators, so no. That's my community feedback.

It sounds like MetaFilter is not the kind of community you were looking for. That's okay, there are lots of other places on the internet. In fact, a good MetaTalk post is often a barely disguised AskMe: if you tell us more what you are looking for in a forum, people here could recommend other ones. You could also hang around a bit more, see what things are like here, "lurk more" as they say. Maybe you'll see value in how things are done here, even if it's not what you expected. But if you are certain that the way you want this place to be is the right way, and you want to spend everyone's time fighting about that, then you're acting more and more like a self-important 15-year-old. (Note: "self-important 15-year-olds" are often aged 25-55.)

[There's a good chance that this account's behavior is just someone trying to poke us to get a reaction. Stunts like that are often followed up with comments like "Oh my god you totally believed me. And you responded sincerely to my prank. You're such a fool!". I've thought about it and decided that I'm fine with being that kind of fool.]
posted by benito.strauss at 9:20 AM on August 28, 2015 [42 favorites]


I do not believe that this MetaTalk or that Ask were posted in good faith. Not for a second.

But, on the off chance I am wrong, and they were posted in sincerity know, KNOW that they don't seem like it. You are wildly off course and have misread the room or your own message or both so much that what you are putting out is incomprehensible.
posted by dirtdirt at 9:22 AM on August 28, 2015 [5 favorites]


There's a good chance that this account's behavior is just someone trying to poke us to get a reaction.

I'm sort of in love with the idea that this might be someone attempt at an Epic Troll of the infamously sensitive SJWs of MetaFilter and it just turned into a happy engagement announcement, a bunch of jokes and some sensible advice on participation here.
posted by griphus at 9:23 AM on August 28, 2015 [106 favorites]


Yeah, I think the name "knowgood" as in "no good" as in "what are you up to?" means this is just someone looking for attention.

I also want to throw in that restless_nomad's moderation and non-mod contributions to this site are quite fantastic. I'm a fan and I am glad to hear that she's found another fan in her new fiancee!

And as a Minnesotan, I am sad to hear you did not grace our state with your wonderful nuptials.
posted by jillithd at 9:23 AM on August 28, 2015 [2 favorites]


I was curious about some of the other situations where knowgood’s input had been deleted, so I check the unofficial deleted posts & deleted asks blogs. I came up dry both times.

While I realize that there’s some degree of lag in how often those are updated, it seems likely that this was knowgood’s first attempted question. knowgood, is that the case? Sorry for such a hard first-time-contributing experience! Please remember that you can always swing by chat or just contact the moderators to get feedback on how to make something a good fit for a particular section of the site.
posted by Going To Maine at 9:24 AM on August 28, 2015 [2 favorites]


Is "default" the new "basic"?
posted by Lyn Never at 9:24 AM on August 28, 2015


Congrats Pat and ChrisJeremy and Alex! 🎉 🎂 🎶 👯
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:25 AM on August 28, 2015 [2 favorites]


> ... any more than "this isn't a Peter Frampton LP" is a flaw in a juicy peach.

That's The Allman Brothers, not Frampton.
posted by benito.strauss at 9:25 AM on August 28, 2015 [13 favorites]


Actually, it's about ethics in moderation.
posted by Justinian at 9:26 AM on August 28, 2015 [21 favorites]


I'm sort of in love with the idea that this might be someone attempt at an Epic Troll of the infamously sensitive SJWs of MetaFilter and it just turned into a happy engagement announcement, a bunch of jokes and some sensible advice on participation here.

A LADY... named JEREMY? Is HAPPY???? With a HUMAN SHE KNOWS???? And everyone's happy FOR THEM????????? EPIC FAIL, SJWs
posted by Greg Nog at 9:26 AM on August 28, 2015 [85 favorites]


Frankly, there's a lot I really, really dislike about MetaFilter. But, the moderation - and the Moderators themselves - are not one of them.
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 9:28 AM on August 28, 2015 [3 favorites]


This is going right up on /r/drama next to that post on NeoGAF where someone said R. Mika premiered in Street Fighter Alpha 3 rather than Street Fighter Zero 3.
posted by griphus at 9:29 AM on August 28, 2015 [5 favorites]


so this post is donald trump?

Nah, it's not yooge enough yet.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:29 AM on August 28, 2015 [3 favorites]


> My favorite AskMe ever was like a week after AskMe started when someone asked who was the band who did Stairway to Heaven.

I just made an odd muffled-laugh-through-the-nose sound that I'd never made before. Really? I demand a link (didn't find it with a quick search).
posted by benito.strauss at 9:31 AM on August 28, 2015 [1 favorite]


it's going to take that long to figure out what I'm changing my legal name to.

I'd suggest "restless_TIBERIUS_nomad", except Zoe Quinn already kinda did that. (well, the changing her middle name to TIBERIUS part, not the rest of the name.)
posted by rmd1023 at 9:36 AM on August 28, 2015 [1 favorite]


Nah, we just road-trip together, now.

UGH how does this engagement just keep getting BETTER and BETTER you two should be ashamed of yourselves.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 9:36 AM on August 28, 2015 [6 favorites]


Hey, will this make Alex the first official MeFi ModSpouse? I hope that comes with all kinds of special swag.

a) No, secretariat
b) I think if someone wants to make a greasemonkey script that adds "enspousenated to (persons)" after all enspousenated folks, that'd be just fine.
posted by Going To Maine at 9:36 AM on August 28, 2015


MAZEL TOV, restless_nomad and Alex Haist!!!!
posted by leesh at 9:38 AM on August 28, 2015 [3 favorites]


I am so fond of restless_nomad's moderation style that I decided to marry her (true story).

From my wedding ceremony to the both of you: May this covenant of steadfast love made between you give you long years and deep friendship and the making of glad memories in peace and tenderness, now and forever and ever more. Congratulations!
posted by MonkeyToes at 9:39 AM on August 28, 2015 [16 favorites]


See now this is why I like Metafilter: The moderation engages with the community.
posted by solarion at 9:39 AM on August 28, 2015 [133 favorites]


This is the beginning of an illustrious career with Metafilter. Congratulations on your first MetaTalk post!
posted by GrapeApiary at 9:40 AM on August 28, 2015 [1 favorite]


Congratulations on your nuptials. We got you a flame out! It was very hard to wrap.
posted by FunkyHelix at 9:41 AM on August 28, 2015 [147 favorites]


Congrats on the pending nuptials! Seconding that we ignore the original content and just post congrats messages because, I mean, seriously? Seriously.
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:41 AM on August 28, 2015 [3 favorites]


I'm on vacation and it's friday so fuck it, I cracked a beer open for y'all.

Glad I did or the mini-fridge would have frozen this one solid and beersplosion is never a good thing.

Kids, don't put beers in the freezer then take the kiddo on a hope-this-knocks-her-out-for-nap bike jaunt.

Edit: Oh the difference a comma makes.
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:43 AM on August 28, 2015 [6 favorites]


I just made an odd muffled-laugh-through-the-nose sound that I'd never made before. Really? I demand a link (didn't find it with a quick search).

Yes, really. After I finish stuffing Chinese food into my face I will do a search for it. It was a long time ago though, do deleted threads that far back show up in the deleted thread list? It probably wasn't tagged either.

I clearly remember it though, and there was even a Meta about it.
posted by bondcliff at 9:45 AM on August 28, 2015


If you think the moderation's ridiculous, wait until you meet the rest of us.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 9:45 AM on August 28, 2015 [55 favorites]


I'm on vacation and it's friday so fuck it, I cracked a beer open for y'all.

Yeah I'm going on vacation tomorrow and trying SO HARD to focus on work and failing SO HARD on focusing on work so I've spent my morning telling myself "you cannot just go drop random nonsense into MeFi threads because it will be annoying and you don't want to be That Guy" so this thread and the engagement announcement have been like the best possible "last day of work before vacation" prezzie.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 9:46 AM on August 28, 2015 [3 favorites]


Hey, congrats to restless_nomad and Alex Haist! I hope your wedding is exactly as expensive and showy as you wanted it to be and that you have as much or as little of a party as you both desire, and that you get a really good break from putting up with us jerks on the internet in there somewhere. I'm one of those who figured the kindest thing to do was to prevent the OP from embarrassing themselves in public but who doesn't really fault you guys for letting the OP have the discussion they were pushing for and saving yourself the emotional work.

seriously metafilter loves you and wants you to be happy can we bring you a dead thing to express our love like weird internet cats please??
posted by sciatrix at 9:46 AM on August 28, 2015 [23 favorites]


I cracked a beer open for y'all.

I would do the same but beer in Kentucky is oddly expensive? Mods? Can we do something about this please? Can we make the beer cheap? Cheap for me? Help me drink mods? mods? mods? drinky beer for me mods? help um go down smooth, clean crisp refreshment? mods? mods ? mdos? mods? ???
posted by Greg Nog at 9:47 AM on August 28, 2015 [26 favorites]


See now this is why I like Metafilter: The moderation engages with the community.

You have ruined a beautiful thing.
posted by Going To Maine at 9:47 AM on August 28, 2015 [11 favorites]


This is the best wedding announcement thread EVER. MUCH CONGRATULATION TO R_N AND ALEX ON UPCOMING NUPTIAL!!!!
posted by beefetish at 9:47 AM on August 28, 2015 [1 favorite]


Also as a fellow person named Jeremy, I welcome additional Jeremys of all bodies and identifications into the fold! Let the days of being called Jerry by accident be over forthwith!
posted by softlord at 9:47 AM on August 28, 2015 [9 favorites]


greg i have one word for you interstate beer drones
posted by beefetish at 9:47 AM on August 28, 2015 [7 favorites]


grace our state with your wonderful nuptials.

See, does that sound pornographic to anyone else? Something about the word nuptial.... Certain usages, like when it's plural (as I used it even) or what have you just make it sound frisky.

I swear I've only had half a beer.
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:48 AM on August 28, 2015 [1 favorite]


lol
posted by Awful Peice of Crap at 9:49 AM on August 28, 2015 [1 favorite]


greg i have one word for you interstate beer drones

[takes envelope away from forehead, opens it]

"who will be my hive's workers when I become the Queen Bee?"
posted by Greg Nog at 9:49 AM on August 28, 2015 [28 favorites]


[takes envelope away from forehead, opens it]

"who will be my hive's workers when I become the Queen Bee?"


Fuck it, that's it, contact added. You win.
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:51 AM on August 28, 2015 [7 favorites]


In the office at 6:50 on Friday, doin' some algebra. Now plus beer, and happy engagement. Congrats!
posted by nat at 9:52 AM on August 28, 2015 [2 favorites]


See, does that sound pornographic to anyone else?

Let's give it the litmus test.

"She exposed her nuptials to the onlooking crowd."

I'd say so.
posted by solarion at 9:53 AM on August 28, 2015 [14 favorites]


> Epic Troll of the infamously sensitive SJWs

Space Journey Walrus would like a word with you. (there are even t-shirts now thanks to louche mustachio.)
posted by rtha at 9:54 AM on August 28, 2015 [14 favorites]


Harsh but makes you think.
posted by Wolfdog at 9:55 AM on August 28, 2015 [1 favorite]


I am so loving Metafilter right now.
posted by gwint at 9:55 AM on August 28, 2015


Mods? Can we do something about this please?

As long as we're fixing important issues, I just recently discovered there's no Dogfish Head in this entire 12th largest state of the United States in which I am as-of-recently located. AT ALL.
posted by Wolfdog at 9:58 AM on August 28, 2015 [1 favorite]


As long as we're not talking about moderation, how did the SJW make it to salable product a mere 55 minutes after the market cried out in demand?
posted by postcommunism at 9:59 AM on August 28, 2015


Grats on the impending nuptualization!
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:59 AM on August 28, 2015 [1 favorite]


I am so fond of restless_nomad's moderation style that I decided to marry her (true story).

Austin misses her (she was about to take the California leap when we talked at the last Austin Meetup she attended) but I'm so glad she landed in such a wonderful place! Cheers to you both -- I didn't know it was official until now, either.
posted by Devils Rancher at 9:59 AM on August 28, 2015 [3 favorites]


> seriously metafilter loves you and wants you to be happy can we bring you a dead thing to express our love like weird internet cats please??

I am now imagining r_n and Alex waking up one morning and finding their stoop covered in dead things and their yard covered in tents of camped-out mefites. This pleases me.

Congratulations!
posted by rtha at 10:04 AM on August 28, 2015 [33 favorites]


This is the worst thread ever to become the best thread. Mazel tov, r_n and Alex!
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:06 AM on August 28, 2015 [14 favorites]


> It was a long time ago though, do deleted threads that far back show up in the deleted thread list?

Oh, it was deleted. MeFi, I am disappoint. It sounds like a valid AskMe question to me.

That probably means it won't show up in the usual searches. Don't spend too much time looking for it, especially if it eats into the time you should be drinking beer to celebrate Friday and an impending mod wedding.
posted by benito.strauss at 10:07 AM on August 28, 2015 [1 favorite]


Ultimate ugly duckling thread. Yay r_n and Alex!!
posted by greenish at 10:07 AM on August 28, 2015 [4 favorites]


I am so fond of restless_nomad's moderation style that I decided to marry her (true story).

Well, you know what they say...moderation in all things.

Congratulations, restless_nomad and Alex Haist!
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:12 AM on August 28, 2015 [7 favorites]


Dammit I'm on the magic bus and don't have beer yet don't get too far ahead of me!
posted by eriko at 10:13 AM on August 28, 2015


Oh, it was deleted. MeFi, I am disappoint. It sounds like a valid AskMe question to me.

I think so. Probably. The infodumpster doesn't seem to return any deleted posts that far back, probably due to the prejudices of the mods here*. YOU KNOW HOW THEY ARE.

*or perhaps I just don't know what the hell I'm doing or possibly mis-remembering things.
posted by bondcliff at 10:15 AM on August 28, 2015 [1 favorite]


Hey, congrats restless_nomad and Alex Haist!

*idly wonders if r_n wins all the arguments by announcing "delete" after comments which displease her and waving various flags*
posted by billiebee at 10:15 AM on August 28, 2015 [9 favorites]


Jeremy is a perfectly excellent name for either a man or a woman. I don't know which name origin restless_nomad can claim, but, being Irish-American, I'll just go ahead and pretend its from the Irish, keeping with a long tradition of the Irish claiming they originated everything good. And the Irish name Diarmaid means either injunction or envy, which seems appropriate to this post, because I assume the injunction against nonsensical AskMe posts resulted in envy that one of our moderators had such a marvelous name.
posted by maxsparber at 10:16 AM on August 28, 2015 [1 favorite]


bondcliff, found it! waste of valuable front page AskMe space. (The MetaTalk thread about it anyway.)
posted by pb (staff) at 10:23 AM on August 28, 2015 [21 favorites]


Hah this makes me so happy. A GRARING-hour thread derailed into CONGRATS! Otherwise, what benito.s said in many well-chosen words.

Oh and for the record:

No

(and now a drink)
posted by Namlit at 10:26 AM on August 28, 2015 [1 favorite]


pb!

Wow, I guess I was mis-remembering the timeline. I could have sworn it was earlier on in AskMe history.
posted by bondcliff at 10:26 AM on August 28, 2015 [2 favorites]


individually, all of the mefi moderators are actually really nice people.

but yes, i agree completely - this place is over-moderated, resulting in a weird monoculture that i find uncomfortable. it feels very like quora to me (at least when i was there). but with more weddings.

tbh my main solution is to go back to reddit more.
posted by andrewcooke at 10:36 AM on August 28, 2015 [1 favorite]


I am so fond of restless_nomad's moderation style that I decided to marry her (true story).

Woot, congratulations!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:39 AM on August 28, 2015


Oh, great. I came into the thread with popcorn. Now you're telling me I have to go and get champagne?

CONGRATS r_n and Alex Haist!
posted by nubs at 10:40 AM on August 28, 2015 [8 favorites]


Man i tried for so long to make the perfect "mod engagement" joke and now like eleventy-six people have beat me to it

EPIC CONGRATULATIONS Y'ALL!
posted by KathrynT at 10:42 AM on August 28, 2015 [1 favorite]


As long as we're not talking about moderation, how did the SJW make it to salable product a mere 55 minutes after the market cried out in demand?
posted by postcommunism at 12:59 PM on August 28 [+] [!]


Eponysterical?
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:43 AM on August 28, 2015 [2 favorites]


I used to have a lot of replies deleted. Now I am so old I just don't realize they are deleted, not really. The Tramp Stamp and Boyzone thread educated me about the culture of Metafilter, and general rules for participating in the community, then not only participating in this culture, but more successful participation in any other.

Many different types of people post, and reply on Metafilter, for reasons as various as can be. The mods weave a web filter which keeps some frank, hateful and useless nonesense at bay, and also inflammatory nonesense that serves whomever it would.

The mods are expert and very of this current time. As the election draws ever nearer, I hope they will have the juice to stay on it. Keeping people angry and unnerved influences election results.

Mainly I enjoy the community, as it morphs for the better, while staying largely the same. There exist actual rules and suggestions about the site, and descriptions of how this program works. I never knew about flagging until the boyzone thread. Someday instead of boring people maybe I will spend some of my time here, reading the rules and directions.

I have noticed idealogues, or those with some dull ax to grind expect a hero's welcome, I think that is reserved for actual heros.
posted by Oyéah at 10:44 AM on August 28, 2015 [3 favorites]


I think that is reserved for actual heros.

Like Furiosa!
posted by maxsparber at 10:47 AM on August 28, 2015 [10 favorites]


Wow. Sometimes I find myself nostalgic for the occasional gems of wit that came out of the extra-combative MeTa free-for-all back in the old days, but that thread was sort of painful to read. Were we really all that shouty?
posted by nebulawindphone at 10:49 AM on August 28, 2015 [1 favorite]


I literally felt I had more freedom online while in an airport in China for a 10-hour layover.

Try using a computer in wearing just briefs and let know how that goes. Jeremy don't care or even know!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:50 AM on August 28, 2015 [1 favorite]


OK, so way down here's there's probably not much actual discussion left, but I was all ready to get my fight on because I feel like there's been too much comment deletion lately, but then I saw the deleted question and I got to say, that was just not going to stay. This was a textbook AskMe deletion.

So now I have to go a feel silenced all my life over here all by myself.
posted by GuyZero at 10:50 AM on August 28, 2015 [3 favorites]


So as anybody who bothers to look knows, I very rarely post in MeTa, and I almost never make mod requests. But after reading all this, I have to take a stand.

Mods, could you change the name of this thread to "Restless_Nomad and Alex get Married?" And we can just congratulate them for the next 300 posts?
posted by happyroach at 10:51 AM on August 28, 2015 [14 favorites]


Congrats to the happy couple!

I miss the recipes...
posted by Splunge at 11:05 AM on August 28, 2015 [1 favorite]


Yes, Mefi moderation culture is ridiculous... -ly awesome!

Congrats, r_n and Alex!
posted by bookdragoness at 11:08 AM on August 28, 2015 [1 favorite]


Congrats to restless_nomad and Alex Haist!

...weird. I could have sworn I came into this thread about something other than awesome news. Oh well, couldn't have been important.
posted by Lemurrhea at 11:08 AM on August 28, 2015 [2 favorites]


Congrats restless_nomad and Alex Haist! May you be very happy :)
posted by pahalial at 11:10 AM on August 28, 2015


I'm just here to say yay for happy people.
posted by eamondaly at 11:22 AM on August 28, 2015 [1 favorite]


by apparently a female moderator who calls herself Jeremy. Seriously?

everybodyneedsahugeverybodyneedsahugeverybodyneedsahugeverybodyneedsahugeverybodyneedsahugeverybodyneedsahug

Nah fuck it. You can just fuck right off with that shit. Alright? Right out the goddamn door.
posted by odinsdream at 11:23 AM on August 28, 2015 [57 favorites]


Enjoy marriage! It is cool, and also totally sweet.
posted by selfnoise at 11:23 AM on August 28, 2015 [2 favorites]


What is a "default human"?
posted by Hoopo at 11:24 AM on August 28, 2015 [6 favorites]


...people like you and me and that angry neighbor
posted by Namlit at 11:28 AM on August 28, 2015 [1 favorite]


duffell: "this isn't a Peter Frampton LP" is a flaw in a juicy peach.

Is a great (sock puppet) name.


Splunge: I miss the recipes...

jessamyn wrote about recipes in MeTa back in 2010:
And without calling out anyone specifically, jumping into an active conversation with recipes seems to me to be saying "Oh c'mon you guys stop being so serious, let's EAT SNACKS." I've asked folks a few times nicely to ease off on the immediate MeTa thread derailments and I'd like to be a little more clear: if you are not trying to be disrespectful of other people trying to have a conversation, please don't do that unless it's clear that the thread is mostly over/resolved.
In short: recipe derails are like other derails - not polite, even if they are tasty.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:29 AM on August 28, 2015 [4 favorites]


I'm glad this made it through the moderation queue, 'cause it makes me feel a lot better about pushing on the door marked Pull for an irritating ten seconds.

Also, congrats on the awesome, because awesome.
posted by Mooski at 11:29 AM on August 28, 2015 [2 favorites]


I think if someone wants to make a greasemonkey script that adds "enspousenated to (persons)" after all enspousenated folks, that'd be just fine.

I kind of want someone to do this just to see exactly what breaks when it gets to Brandon Blatcher.

Congratulations r_n and Alex Heist!
posted by EvaDestruction at 11:30 AM on August 28, 2015 [2 favorites]


#idontreallyunderstandhashtagseither
#congratsr_n&alex!
posted by phunniemee at 11:30 AM on August 28, 2015 [1 favorite]


I'm not going to defend the OP's personal insults against the moderators, but I think her question in the AskMe was an interesting one that could possibly be tweaked to become more clear and answerable. She asked, "Can we accept very pregnant women as default humans?" and, for those of you who were wondering what a "default human" is or suspecting that there's some kind of ugly ideology behind the term, the OP linked to a succinct explanation. (If you'd like to see an in-depth discussion of the concept, check out this great Metafilter post here.) The OP also asked the question in the title of her AskMe: "Very pregnant woman. New universal symbol for human being?" The question, in essence, is about how we come to conceptualize some human states as default and other states as "other" and whether, given the current progressive movements to demarginalize many of these states, we could do the same for pregnancy. The more I think about possible objections - such as "pregnancy is temporary; non-pregnancy is the norm for every human and therefore will always be considered the default in any human society" - the more I think of counterobjections - "Age is temporary too, but we do seem to view a certain range of ages as the default and when we want to depict a default human, it's generally a 30-to-50-year-old." So yeah, I understand that the OP's question calls for more speculation than is appropriate in AskMe, but I think a more narrow question could be constructed that would fit the guidelines and provoke some interesting answers.
posted by Mila at 11:32 AM on August 28, 2015 [9 favorites]


What is a "default human"?

If you're asking what the concept of "default human" that the OP was addressing is (i.e. you're asking what it is and the fact that the op was addressing it is tangential), then this is a question for AskMe, not Meta.

If you're wanting to talk about the original question, then that's not really appropriate for Meta, even though it's about Metafilter.

If you're asking what a default human should be, a sort of philosophical question, then that's not appropriate for AskMe or Meta. Take it to reddit.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 11:33 AM on August 28, 2015 [2 favorites]


#idontreallyunderstandhashtagseither
#congratsr_n&alex!

#congratsr_ihardlyknewr
posted by Going To Maine at 11:35 AM on August 28, 2015 [2 favorites]


restless_nomad and Alex Haist, congratulations!

And for the record, I think these are two amazing gems:

solarion: See now this is why I like Metafilter: The moderation engages with the community.

duffell: that's not really a flaw in Metafilter, any more than "this isn't a Peter Frampton LP" is a flaw in a juicy peach.

I snorted my coffee.
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:48 AM on August 28, 2015 [5 favorites]


If I am to answer the question originally posed, also, I feel that moderation here does push a certain agenda. It's heavier than other sites I frequent. But as the agenda seems to be of civil discussion I don't mind, and the lack of insults is nice.

I was going to make an analogy about how it's like an ice rink and even though it's very specific in some cases that's okay because the crowd are generally ice skaters and they don't want things to be lit on fire even if there's a couple of bonfire proponents

but the moderation has to handle issues of "is it okay to ride a specially equipped bicycle in the ice rink" and these issues are not always handled perfectly but that's as much moderation being a reflection of the ice skating community as it is some sort of skating clubhouse which is also as it should be

also something about raking the ice

i'm not sure
posted by solarion at 11:53 AM on August 28, 2015 [6 favorites]


If only I had a penguin...: If you're asking what a default human should be, a sort of philosophical question, then that's not appropriate for AskMe or Meta. Take it to reddit.

Or MetaChat (the unofficial sister site and/or the official chat room)
posted by filthy light thief at 11:56 AM on August 28, 2015


Is it wrong to be disappointed that this MeTa didn't include a flame-out?
posted by OHenryPacey at 12:00 PM on August 28, 2015 [5 favorites]


it's going to take that long to figure out what I'm changing my legal name to.

I figured One Free Name Change was part of the impetus (besides all the other good stuff) for getting married. Many happy returns. If you decide to get hitched in Vermont, I have been told I am okay at performing weddings (plus you guys did First Skype at my house).

And sure moderation is ridiculous, occasionally. It has many other qualities, but the main one is that it's a little different than how it happens at other places. AskMe specifically has some guidelines about how questions should work. No big deal that you didn't know them, OP, but I'm not sure this is the most tactical way to figure out how to get your question answered.
posted by jessamyn (retired) at 12:02 PM on August 28, 2015 [16 favorites]


Well, knowgood hasn't shown up again in thread so spontaneous self combustion is still a distinct possibility.
posted by dazed_one at 12:02 PM on August 28, 2015 [2 favorites]


Woaaaaaaah.

I just read the deleted question, and few things have made me laugh that hard in the last month. What is it? What does it mean? Is it performance art?

(The rotating puppet trump gif helped. Thank you)


After a few minutes to think, I realised that was probably entirely unintentional, and just an attempt at making conversation, but in the context of AskMe it was utterly confusing due to the lack of question.
I liked the linked gif about default humanity, also. :)
posted by Elysum at 12:03 PM on August 28, 2015


Quick bit of trivia (hello from a highway in Texas, congrats again to Jeremy and Alex, this is a deeply silly Metatalk post and it was generous of Jeremy to give it the time of day) about that Stairway Ask metatalk pb tracked down:

That the question itself no longer exists is likely just a reflection of Ask starting out as a fork of the code base for Metatalk, which had the old delete-as-nuke approach for threads for a long time vs the delete-as-hide method we use now. It was presumably a bad question but not specifically kill-it-with-fire bad.
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:04 PM on August 28, 2015 [13 favorites]


*idly wonders if r_n wins all the arguments by announcing "delete" after comments which displease her and waving various flags*

This paints a hilarious & vivid picture in my mind.

"It's your turn to take the trash to the curb."

... *gathering of various pennants, etc* ...

"DELETE!"
posted by Devils Rancher at 12:05 PM on August 28, 2015 [6 favorites]


but I think a more narrow question could be constructed that would fit the guidelines and provoke some interesting answers.

Not really, because the essence of the question is still chat-filter. I mean, if you're looking to "provoke some interesting answers", Ask is explicitly set up so that doing that intentionally is against the guidelines. "Here's what I think, discuss" is never going to work. I mean, I could see a question like "I'm working on creating a symbol for my Nonprofit, would a pregnant woman be an inclusive symbol?" working, because then there's a problem being solved.
posted by Gygesringtone at 12:10 PM on August 28, 2015


Also, congrats on the engagement.
posted by Gygesringtone at 12:10 PM on August 28, 2015


everybody needs a huge very body?
posted by maryr at 12:20 PM on August 28, 2015 [11 favorites]


this is a deeply silly Metatalk post and it was generous of Jeremy to give it the time of day)

If she hadn't, that could conceivably fuel future complaints about an increase in over moderation since the pre-queue days.
posted by zarq at 12:21 PM on August 28, 2015


wait but how would we know
posted by griphus at 12:21 PM on August 28, 2015 [3 favorites]


*spooky noise*
posted by maryr at 12:22 PM on August 28, 2015 [16 favorites]


Also I'm seeing some oil derricks and it's making me think about how many guys in the oil industry are named Derek and what must life be like for them.
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:25 PM on August 28, 2015 [37 favorites]


Is that an oil derrick along your highway or are you just happy to see us?
posted by zarq at 12:27 PM on August 28, 2015 [5 favorites]


this place is over-moderated, resulting in a weird monoculture

A monoculture of basic respect and clear language is the weirdest thing to have happened on the internet, truly.
posted by witchen at 12:29 PM on August 28, 2015 [55 favorites]


Also... there used to be a company called Derek Oil and Gas in Kansas. It's since been renamed to Newcastle Energy. So imagine if your name was Derek, working for Derek Oil, on a Derrick.
posted by zarq at 12:29 PM on August 28, 2015 [4 favorites]


Okay, I have no clue whatsoever what the OP's AskMe question was about, not one single clue, but I will say that her angry MeTa post makes for a remarkably fun dramatic reading.

(Congrats, restless_nomad and Alex!! Yay!!)
posted by sarcasticah at 12:29 PM on August 28, 2015


All-Derek-crewed Derek Oil crude oil derricks are derelict.
posted by nom de poop at 12:30 PM on August 28, 2015 [25 favorites]


Also I'm seeing some oil derricks and it's making me think about how many guys in the oil industry are named Derek and what must life be like for them.

Roger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?
posted by phunniemee at 12:31 PM on August 28, 2015 [4 favorites]


Speaking of oil companies, this unironically-named oilfield services company always makes me chortle.

*chortles*
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 12:32 PM on August 28, 2015 [4 favorites]


*idly wonders if r_n wins all the arguments by announcing "delete" after comments which displease her and waving various flags*

Only if she gets it in before Alex's "sudo".
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 12:34 PM on August 28, 2015 [1 favorite]


Actually it means that all of our disagreements are tediously verbose, calm, and literal. We define terms, we use negotiating best-practices, we consider relative emotional labor - man, we're boring.

I'm so happy.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 12:36 PM on August 28, 2015 [117 favorites]


Nothing like planning a wedding to shake that up!
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 12:37 PM on August 28, 2015 [38 favorites]


Speaking of oil companies, this unironically-named oilfield services company always makes me chortle.

Let's click that link...

BJ Services consist of well stimulation...

You can say that again!

cementing, sand control, coiled tubing and downhole tools services

Wait, cementing? I think I'm in over my head here.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 12:39 PM on August 28, 2015 [9 favorites]


Very pregnant woman. New universal symbol for human being?

Yeah ... that's just word salad.
posted by ryanshepard at 12:40 PM on August 28, 2015 [3 favorites]


Pregnant women laughing alone with word salad.
posted by griphus at 12:42 PM on August 28, 2015 [75 favorites]


> Is it wrong to be disappointed that this MeTa didn't include a flame-out?

If it is, I don't want to be right.

Also, big congratulations to restless_nomad and Alex Haist!
posted by languagehat at 12:44 PM on August 28, 2015 [1 favorite]


Congrats, restless_nomad and Alex! Best wishes.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:45 PM on August 28, 2015


Congrats on the engagement!
posted by sukeban at 12:48 PM on August 28, 2015


Congrats!
posted by Xavier Xavier at 12:50 PM on August 28, 2015


This is so great. Mods should get engaged in every meta.
posted by nom de poop at 12:50 PM on August 28, 2015 [5 favorites]


> Pregnant women laughing alone with word salad.

Looks like lettuce to me.
posted by rtha at 12:51 PM on August 28, 2015 [4 favorites]


I literally felt I had more freedom online while in an airport in China for a 10-hour layover.

Aaaaaaaaand that's where I hit the hyperbole wall and stopped reading.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 12:52 PM on August 28, 2015 [10 favorites]


is she eating that with a toothpick?
posted by griphus at 12:53 PM on August 28, 2015


r_n and Alex, sittin' in a tree:
K-I-S-S-I-N-G!


Oh wait, was there some OTHER reason for this thread?!?
posted by easily confused at 12:54 PM on August 28, 2015 [1 favorite]


#echochamberoflove
posted by neroli at 12:58 PM on August 28, 2015 [12 favorites]


I feel that moderation here does push a certain agenda.

Eh. I don't think that the moderation policies here—such as they are—consciously push a specific agenda, a specific ideology or specific beliefs. I do believe that in aggregate, the moderation policies tend to enforce certain rhetorical styles over others: the confessional tends to be preferred over the confrontational, the anecdotal over the argumentative, the silly over the caustically sarcastic, for examples. Even people who are by and large philosophically congruent with much of the rest of the forum will tend to run into trouble if they write too much outside those lines. Sometimes I find that off-putting, sometimes absurd. But on the other hand, it's really not that big of a deal. Nothing I'm going to write here is so important that it must be said. Nothing here is so important that it must be said. And I'm willing to consider that it's the best/easiest/only way to keep a forum of this size from eventually degenerating into complete man-on-dog shittiness.
posted by octobersurprise at 12:59 PM on August 28, 2015 [14 favorites]




so this post is donald trump?

Searches thread for the word "terrific". Doesn't find it but in so using the word, it can now be found and this post and thread are now just terrific and more trump.
posted by juiceCake at 1:01 PM on August 28, 2015


is she eating that with a toothpick?

She dropped her other chopstick and at 8 months pregnant it's just "Fuck it, I'm stabbing my salad."
posted by maryr at 1:01 PM on August 28, 2015 [8 favorites]


Damn it, now I've got "Love Rollercoaster" stuck in my head, but with "echo chamber" as part of the chorus.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:02 PM on August 28, 2015 [6 favorites]


At 4.5 hours in, with no follow-up from know good, is there compelling reason to keeping this thread open, other than closing it would be another example of jackbooted thuggery?
posted by cjorgensen at 1:02 PM on August 28, 2015


Dang! I clicked on the #irresponsible tag hoping to see some MetaTalk gems, but there are none.

And yet, an appropriate tag, nonetheless!

There is one post betagged thusly on the Blue and five on Ask.
posted by Celsius1414 at 1:03 PM on August 28, 2015


As long as it doesn't go completely toxic, I'm inclined to leave it open a while for a follow-up. I hesitate to assume that someone's deliberately avoiding the site during the middle of the US workday.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 1:04 PM on August 28, 2015 [2 favorites]


Maybe we could use this space to discuss our favorite treaties?
posted by Chrysostom at 1:04 PM on August 28, 2015 [5 favorites]


Sometimes, sure. Sometimes I think it's totally reasonable. And Sometimes I really do think it's ridiculous. And it does not bother me in the slightest. Besides I am the boring kind of poster who never gets censored. Ever ever.
posted by ipsative at 1:07 PM on August 28, 2015


UNCLOS! Sea-law for life! And then any of us, not just jessamyn, can perform the marriage.
posted by Lemurrhea at 1:08 PM on August 28, 2015 [2 favorites]


Maybe we could use this space to discuss our favorite treaties?

This isn't an oblique reference to Treats and hence Recipes to make Treats, is it?

Also, belated but sincere congratulations on the romance and engagement!
posted by bearwife at 1:08 PM on August 28, 2015


this post and thread are now just terrific and more trump.

Donald Trump and Biff Tannen are the same person.

Think about it. It's 2015. It's all starting to make sense now, isn't it?
posted by octobersurprise at 1:08 PM on August 28, 2015 [7 favorites]


Oh and congrats guys, yay you!!! Good luck and happiness to both!
posted by ipsative at 1:08 PM on August 28, 2015


> At 4.5 hours in, with no follow-up from know good, is there compelling reason to keeping this thread open, ...

Did you not notice the engagement party that's broken out here? Plus, they just put on "Love Rollercoaster", and that, as the kids say, is my jam.
posted by benito.strauss at 1:15 PM on August 28, 2015 [6 favorites]


What is a "default human"?

It's from before you're born, when you go to the Character Avatar screen. Note that after the Version 4.0 patch, elves, dwarves, orcs and hobbits are no longer playable characters. There's talk that currently reptoids , greys are currently playable with the right code, but it hasn't been confirmed.

Lately there's rumors that with Certain 6.0 the cyborg options will be massively upgraded and that AIs will be playable characters, and possibly the long-promised Moon and Mars expansion packs will be open. But honestly, given the recent game physics and environment patches, I'm more than a little doubtful. But what can you expect with a free game with a borked economy?
posted by happyroach at 1:16 PM on August 28, 2015 [15 favorites]


Mods should get engaged in every meta.

Y'all know r_n did already get engaged in a previous MeTa, right?

Although I would be altogether in favor of re-announcing it in every grar-ey censorship/free-speech/echo-chamber MeTa. Happiness is a lot more fun.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 1:20 PM on August 28, 2015 [3 favorites]


Your love is like an echo chamber baby baby baby baby baby baby baby baby
posted by Metroid Baby at 1:23 PM on August 28, 2015 [6 favorites]


Besides I am the boring kind of poster who never gets censored. Ever ever.
posted by ipsative at 16:07 on August 28


Meanwhile, at Cabal* HQ:

restless_nomad: "Josh, better have a look at this..."
cortex: "Challenge accepted!"


*there is no Cabal
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 1:26 PM on August 28, 2015 [2 favorites]


Vegetarian French Onion Soup

Serves 6

Traditional French onion soup can come in as high as 39 grams of fat per serving. Ours has just 10.5 and tastes amazing. Slowly caramelizing the onions gives this soup its diner-divine rich flavor (don't try to hurry the onions; they're worth the time!). Slices of toasted sourdough and just enough melted cheese complete the order.
2 Tbs. unsalted butter
1 Tbs. vegetable oil
5 large onions (about 3 lb.), halved and thinly sliced
3 cloves garlic, minced (about 1 Tbs.)
½ tsp. salt
2 Tbs. all-purpose flour
6 cups roasted or low-sodium vegetable broth
⅓ cup dry sherry
1 tsp. Dijon mustard
1 tsp. sherry vinegar
6 ½-inch slices sourdough bread, toasted
⅔ cup shredded Jarlsberg or Gruyère cheese
1. Heat butter and oil in heavy, large saucepan over medium heat. Add onions, garlic and salt, and cook 5 minutes, stirring often. Reduce heat to very low, and cook, stirring occasionally, 50 to 60 minutes, until onions are very tender and brown.
2. Stir in flour, and cook 3 to 4 minutes, stirring constantly. Blend in broth, sherry and mustard. Cover, and simmer 15 minutes, stirring occasionally. Stir in sherry vinegar.
3. Preheat broiler. Ladle soup into six heatproof bowls. Top each with slice of toast and grated cheese. Broil until cheese is bubbly and golden, about 1 to 2 minutes. Serve hot.
posted by 4ster at 1:26 PM on August 28, 2015 [14 favorites]


Y'all know r_n did already get engaged in a previous MeTa, right?

No I didn't know! But I was really hoping it would be different mods, not just restless_nomad every time over and over, jeez that's got to be exhausting.
posted by nom de poop at 1:27 PM on August 28, 2015 [4 favorites]


Only recipes suitable for a wedding, please.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 1:27 PM on August 28, 2015


Well you know, a rotation.
posted by nom de poop at 1:30 PM on August 28, 2015


Damn it, now I've got "Love Rollercoaster" stuck in my head, but with "echo chamber" as part of the chorus.

and my brain decided to put "love in an elevator" in my head with the same word substitution.
posted by nadawi at 1:32 PM on August 28, 2015 [7 favorites]


I love this thread. Congratulations to Alex Haist and restless_nomad!!!
posted by en forme de poire at 1:36 PM on August 28, 2015 [1 favorite]


Congrats to r_n and Alex Haist. I look forward to the status update: Married To The Mod


For the OP:
I feel your pain. I joined the forum under really difficult circumstances and had a lot of deletions at first and wasn't getting the feedback I needed to try to figure out how to fit in better. This is how I handled it: What's my problem?

If you want to actually stick around and participate in the community, I think that's the gold standard for trying to discuss deletions with the community. I still get deletions, partly because I am medically handicapped and have days when I just can't seem to get it right. I am still sometimes enormously frustrated by that, because there is a high-ish correlation between me feeling like crap and me getting comments deleted, so, from my end, it tends to feel like I am being picked on (or "kicked while I'm down"). But I also realize, objectively, I write a lot worse when I feel like crap. So I still have days when I feel kind of like you currently feel about moderation around here. But, overall, the mods deleting my crappier comments has resulted in a higher quality of experience of the forum for me than what I have experienced on other forums. So, overall, I think it has worked well for me.

A couple of the mods have, at times, really gone out of their way to privately give me feedback on why a particular comment got deleted and what I could do differently to try to make my point without it being deleted. That's been really helpful for me, both in terms of helping me figure out what I can do differently and in terms of convincing me that they are just doing their jobs and are not out to get me. The mods around here are very professional, but no matter how professional, they simply can't work with you in that way if you aren't working with them. Even if they tried, it wouldn't have the same effect of feeling helpful. It would tend to feel lecture-y and assholish.

I know this is probably "too late" to help you in this instance. I hope your experience of the site improves.

Anyone want my glass of champagne? I can only toast the happy couple with something Kahlua-laden. Everything else makes me sick.
posted by Michele in California at 1:36 PM on August 28, 2015 [30 favorites]


technically and by default, very pregnant women (as well as others) are two humans. The cabal is, like, inside.
posted by Namlit at 1:36 PM on August 28, 2015 [3 favorites]


Congratulations!!! *tosses flower petals*
posted by kimberussell at 1:43 PM on August 28, 2015


I am neither obscene nor unclear

I'm usually both and still only like 20% of my shit gets deleted. Those are pretty good numbers that I'm completely happy with. I don't look at it as overmoderation - I look at is as the mods kindly preventing my future self from being embarrassed by my past self's inability to sometimes not say stupid fucking things.

This is like a throwback post to the wild west metatalk of yesteryear, when the the rules were loose and the women were... er, treated rather poorly, actually.
posted by item at 1:54 PM on August 28, 2015 [7 favorites]


btw that 20% number has a margin of error of around 19.8%
posted by item at 1:55 PM on August 28, 2015 [2 favorites]


At 4.5 hours in, with no follow-up from know good, is there compelling reason to keeping this thread open, other than closing it would be another example of jackbooted thuggery?

Is there any advance notice to the user that their post is leaving the queue at a particular time? It's not reasonable to expect any user to check MeFi every four hours for their post. It's not fair to let everyone else get their licks in and then close the post while the original poster might not even know that it is open.
posted by grouse at 1:55 PM on August 28, 2015 [5 favorites]


Yup! Some people do! Other people don't! Maybe you guys can get t-shirts?

trad. Miniature American Flags
posted by Room 641-A at 1:57 PM on August 28, 2015 [1 favorite]


filthy light thief: "duffell: "this isn't a Peter Frampton LP" is a flaw in a juicy peach.

Is a great (sock puppet) name.


Splunge: I miss the recipes...

jessamyn wrote about recipes in MeTa back in 2010:
And without calling out anyone specifically, jumping into an active conversation with recipes seems to me to be saying "Oh c'mon you guys stop being so serious, let's EAT SNACKS." I've asked folks a few times nicely to ease off on the immediate MeTa thread derailments and I'd like to be a little more clear: if you are not trying to be disrespectful of other people trying to have a conversation, please don't do that unless it's clear that the thread is mostly over/resolved.
In short: recipe derails are like other derails - not polite, even if they are tasty.
"

Oh I completely understand, I was there. I can still miss them though, cant I?
posted by Splunge at 2:05 PM on August 28, 2015 [1 favorite]


I'm usually both and still only like 20% of my shit gets deleted. Those are pretty good numbers that I'm completely happy with. I don't look at it as overmoderation - I look at is as the mods kindly preventing my future self from being embarrassed by my past self's inability to sometimes not say stupid fucking things.

Sometimes in a fit of nostalgia I go through my early comment history, and woah, there are comments I definitely wish the moderators had deleted!
posted by muddgirl at 2:06 PM on August 28, 2015 [3 favorites]


So by jessamyn's word if you're making an honest effort to be disrespectful of other people trying to have a conversation then posting recipes is totally okay.

It is spoken.
posted by item at 2:12 PM on August 28, 2015


I am neither obscene...I am not disrespectful unless someone else is....#fuckyourechochambermetafiltermoderators
That's not obscene or disrespectful at all.

I find moderation to be heavier than many places but fair and it's a big part of why I like it here.

Anyway congrats to r_n and Alex that's pretty great. That's a fun Friday afternoon bit of news after a frustrating day at work. If you're back in MN, it is indeed a fine place to marry.

And cjorgensen - Reading Rainbow? It feels like it is. But you don't have to take my word for it.
posted by Clinging to the Wreckage at 2:12 PM on August 28, 2015 [3 favorites]


GOD i just noticed the "irresponsible" tag and cackled my way to a full on asthma attack
posted by poffin boffin at 2:17 PM on August 28, 2015 [18 favorites]


This is the worst hamburger review website I've ever been on
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 2:42 PM on August 28, 2015 [26 favorites]


Just came over from Twitter to see what on the gray was producing all the gifs. Wow! Congratulations r_n and Alex! Thanks for the ridiculous, mod-enabled feel good Friday fuzzies, you guys.
posted by deludingmyself at 2:45 PM on August 28, 2015


Reader, she married her! Also, if you don't take Jessamyn up on her offer and decide instead to get married in northern California, look me up! Oh, and to answer the OP's title question, nope!
posted by Lynsey at 2:48 PM on August 28, 2015


congrats to alex and R_N....

i suggest a ASKME for solutions to your name... now that's a solvable problem.

respectefully submitted:

RESTLESS_WAIST

or maybe good_news_forR_N_and.... shit i dont know.... this is hard.


internet hugs anyway!
posted by chasles at 2:50 PM on August 28, 2015 [1 favorite]


This metatalk has 200 comments. Most of which are people trying to be cleverer than the immediately previous posters in insulting the OP. But yes, we are a tolerant and welcoming community.
posted by Another Fine Product From The Nonsense Factory at 2:54 PM on August 28, 2015 [4 favorites]


I'm not going to count them, but my impression is most of the comments are people being happy about the loooooove.
posted by The corpse in the library at 2:55 PM on August 28, 2015 [28 favorites]


pretty sure most of the comments are congratulations for impending mod nuptials.
posted by nadawi at 2:56 PM on August 28, 2015 [9 favorites]


FWIW giving AFaB girls male names is a long established southern US thing.

Mazel Tov(again) to restless_nomad and Alex Haist!
posted by brujita at 2:56 PM on August 28, 2015 [2 favorites]


Hope I'm not the last one, but want to throw my congrats in on the couple as well :)
posted by one4themoment at 2:57 PM on August 28, 2015


This metatalk has 200 comments. Most of which are people trying to be cleverer than the immediately previous posters in insulting the OP. But yes, we are a tolerant and welcoming community.

The most tolerant and welcoming community will probably react negatively to somebody running in and throwing a handful of shit into the middle of the room.
posted by Celsius1414 at 3:06 PM on August 28, 2015 [19 favorites]


RESTLESS_WAIST

Surely "Haisty Nomads"?
posted by en forme de poire at 3:07 PM on August 28, 2015 [8 favorites]


Not last! Congrats! Wishing the two of you joy and happiness.
posted by moira at 3:07 PM on August 28, 2015


This metatalk has 200 comments. Most of which are people trying to be cleverer than the immediately previous posters in insulting the OP. But yes, we are a tolerant and welcoming community.

MetaFilter is not always as welcoming of new folks as it should be, it’s true. But this thread has actually gone in a lot of good directions, and the title of this post is literally Does anyone else feel Metafilter's moderation culture is ridiculous? I have a really hard time getting het up at anyone here for being vocally flabbergasted at such a clear misunderstanding of what the site is about.
posted by Going To Maine at 3:09 PM on August 28, 2015 [10 favorites]


(the joke is that the nomads move very fast ok fine it wasn't very good)
posted by en forme de poire at 3:09 PM on August 28, 2015 [4 favorites]


This actually went really well and wasn't nearly as harsh as I thought it might be; a few users engaged in good faith and responded in detail to the objections raised, and the mod response couldn't have been more patient and clear.

Metatalk has taken the high road here.
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 3:19 PM on August 28, 2015 [15 favorites]


Plus: bonus! engagement! Yaaaaaay. 👍🏻
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 3:19 PM on August 28, 2015 [1 favorite]


Four of my first seven posts on the blue were nuked by the mods. A post I attempted yesterday was nuked by a mod. My response to all of these: figure out what went wrong, and try again. In the case of yesterdays post, it was too thin (single link to a craigslist post offering a job in a cat circus). So, tried again, added more content to the post, and voila.

My main/only problem with the moderation in these here parts: it's not harsh enough. Of the 153 posts on the blue concocted by myself, 17 of them I wish, in retrospect, I hadn't done (ie poor quality, poor humor, too thin, LOOK AT THIS YOU SHOULD ALL BE OUTRAGED AS I AM, forgotten to add links to resources about non-edible uses of cheese, etc) and I wish the mods had deleted them.
posted by Wordshore at 3:27 PM on August 28, 2015 [4 favorites]


Most of which are people trying to be cleverer than the immediately previous posters in insulting the OP.

evidence you have not actually bothered reading the comments could not possibly be clearer.
posted by poffin boffin at 3:34 PM on August 28, 2015 [40 favorites]


Wordshore, my partner has bugged me about the non-edible uses of cheese post and insisted that I share it when it goes up for months.

It is like the only thing that they bring up with respect to metafilter--"is the cheese guy going to make the post soon?" "Sci sci the Ashes have to be over now where is the cheese post" "have you seen the cheese post yet???" "you should contact the cheese guy and ask about that post already" "when the fuck do the Ashes end?"

Are you telling me it finally went up and it got deleted?!

TIME TO OVERTHROW THE MODS TIME TO BURN THE SITE TO THE GROUND WE THE PEOPLE WILL NOT STAND FOR THIS OUTRAGE

NON-EDIBLE USES OF CHEESE FOR ALL
posted by sciatrix at 3:34 PM on August 28, 2015 [16 favorites]


i once almost murdered an intruder with a frozen meatloaf
posted by poffin boffin at 3:37 PM on August 28, 2015 [2 favorites]


*re-holsters rubberchicken
posted by clavdivs at 3:38 PM on August 28, 2015 [3 favorites]


i mean like the INTENT was self defense obviously but since it turned out to be an innocent drunk gay neighbor it would have, alas, been murder. presumably.
posted by poffin boffin at 3:38 PM on August 28, 2015 [3 favorites]


mistakes were made
posted by poffin boffin at 3:39 PM on August 28, 2015 [15 favorites]


evidence you have not actually bothered reading the comments could not possibly be clearer.

hmmm I thought "never read the comments" was the first rule of the internet??? checkmate, libs
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 3:39 PM on August 28, 2015 [5 favorites]


If you're asking what the concept of "default human" that the OP was addressing is (i.e. you're asking what it is and the fact that the op was addressing it is tangential), then this is a question for AskMe, not Meta.

If you're wanting to talk about the original question


what the what? "take it somewhere else"? That's a bit harsh for a simple question, what are you the gatekeeper? I am having difficulty parsing this:

the palatableness of viewing pregnant women as default humans also (you know, on top of gay people, old people, young people, and handicapped people)

I'm such an asshole, right?
posted by Hoopo at 3:40 PM on August 28, 2015


Are you telling me it finally went up and it got deleted?!

No, that was a post about a cat circus. We are all waiting for the non-edible uses of cheese post. Vote #1 non-edible quidnunc cheese.
posted by Going To Maine at 3:44 PM on August 28, 2015 [8 favorites]


I am so fond of restless_nomad's moderation style that I decided to marry her (true story).

That kinda shows up our naming a quiz team in tribute.

Hearty congratulations to you both :)
posted by Pink Frost at 3:44 PM on August 28, 2015


OP lurk a bit longer before posting again and get the feel of the place.
Buona fortuna restless_nomad and Alex!
posted by francesca too at 3:54 PM on August 28, 2015 [1 favorite]


But that's not really a flaw in [X], any more than "this isn't a Peter Frampton LP" is a flaw in a juicy peach. Thanks, duffell! That's going into my regular rotation.

Also, congrats r_n & A_H!

Also, I have unkind thoughts about why this thread is here, but I"ll just let that passive-aggressive bullshit sentence stand in for those thoughts and agree that the moderation here is generally well-done and a reason that I've been here for nearly 15 years now. Well, it's a reason I've stayed here--a lot of the old boyzone crap drove me away for a while--and I think it's part of why ask.me is generally helpful. It is a seriously thankless job, though.
posted by crush-onastick at 4:21 PM on August 28, 2015 [1 favorite]


Wow, this is incredible. This MeTa going up after 7 weeks on this site with barely any participation, my gut leans towards the benefit of the doubt here that this is a BND that can't let go of old issues, rather than a literal brand new user who decided to do this rather than just ask a mod why their AskMe FPP was deleted. I would be embarrassed to make this my "Hey everyone!" to the site, and hopefully in the light of day and continued lurking that's all this post will be in the end. Fortunately, this community seems to forget or at least forgive early missteps quickly, so hopefully there'll be a brighter future ahead.

And of course, congrats to the engagees! :toot:
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 4:27 PM on August 28, 2015


Okay then cocktails everyone.
posted by vrakatar at 4:48 PM on August 28, 2015 [1 favorite]


What? Is there a cheese post in the hopper?
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 5:00 PM on August 28, 2015


Mazel tov to the impendingly nuptialed!

And thank you all for this thread. My summer has been a horrendous barrel of suckage, and reading this today gave me hope that I'll come out the other end. Strange but true.

I love the members of MeFi. Consider yourselves hugged.
posted by ltracey at 5:10 PM on August 28, 2015 [6 favorites]


This metatalk has 200 comments. Most of which are people trying to be cleverer than the immediately previous posters in insulting the OP. But yes, we are a tolerant and welcoming community.

i posted about my plans for when i become a bee
posted by Greg Nog at 5:14 PM on August 28, 2015 [30 favorites]


This is kind of vaguely related to the topic of moderation. Either I overlooked it and am failing to find it, or there wasn't a post about the TV reporters in Virginia (hopefully I didn't just overlook it). I don't know whether this is the result of policy or simply a lack of posts, but either way, I think it's good that there isn't one.
posted by feloniousmonk at 5:14 PM on August 28, 2015


There was one, it was deleted, and thankfully so.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 5:21 PM on August 28, 2015


Congrats to the betrothed! Woohoo!
posted by Joseph Gurl at 5:22 PM on August 28, 2015


Except when they delete my genius posts, the moderation culture is ridiculously OK with me.
posted by y2karl at 5:22 PM on August 28, 2015 [5 favorites]


i posted about my plans for when i become a bee

GregNog has chosen to bee
posted by Going To Maine at 5:23 PM on August 28, 2015 [3 favorites]


To bee or Nog to bee?
posted by comealongpole at 5:26 PM on August 28, 2015 [16 favorites]


I've been biting my tongue, and yeah I should probably keep my mouth shut. The choice of username, the profile comment, July 2 being a very busy day on MeFi, and then this. It doesn't strike me as a good-faith effort as a BND, nor a complete noob who doesn't know the lay of the land. The framing of this post -- good grief.

If they want to be here, speak up, state your case. Otherwise just give 'em their $5 back and call it a day.

(Sorry to bust up the feel-good, it is awesome news. I just had a Bee in my bonnet.)
posted by wallabear at 5:34 PM on August 28, 2015 [6 favorites]


What was happening on July 2?
posted by Going To Maine at 5:35 PM on August 28, 2015


Check the profile and activity.
posted by wallabear at 5:37 PM on August 28, 2015


I made a cheese post.

Be the cheese you want to see in the world.
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 5:41 PM on August 28, 2015 [9 favorites]


Check the profile and activity.

Still not getting the significance of the date, even if I am pretty much in agreement with your assessment. This MeTa just hits too many of the right Free Speech Warrior buzzwords.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 5:42 PM on August 28, 2015


(Bee the cheese you want to see in the world. Damn.)
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 5:42 PM on August 28, 2015 [5 favorites]


Are we not all pregnant, if not with children, with ideas and memes with which to brighten the world?

Oh, that's so delicious. It calls to mind my favorite piece of Jonathan Franzen fanfic.
posted by chrchr at 5:48 PM on August 28, 2015 [3 favorites]


Cheese post. There really are more important things to think about. Thank you.
posted by wallabear at 5:57 PM on August 28, 2015 [1 favorite]


I kind of like self important 15 year olds. They have a surety about the world and their understanding of it that's refreshing taken in moderation.
posted by stoneweaver at 5:59 PM on August 28, 2015 [4 favorites]


And many happy nuptials! Please announce in every Meta that seems like it could use more loving. So, like, all of them.
posted by stoneweaver at 6:00 PM on August 28, 2015 [3 favorites]


"I'm not young enough to know everything."
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 6:00 PM on August 28, 2015 [2 favorites]


Could somebody please just spell out what was happening on July 2, instead of being coy about it? Thank you.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 6:01 PM on August 28, 2015 [7 favorites]


You know.
posted by odinsdream at 6:04 PM on August 28, 2015 [16 favorites]


They have a whole year to keep announcing their engagement in every grary thread! Yay! Perfect solution.

Big CONGRATULATIONS! to the happy couple!
posted by mightshould at 6:05 PM on August 28, 2015


Account opened July 2. Three of four comments made July 2, then one July 7. Two ask answers, July 2. Sorry, didn't mean to tear open the contents in-thread.
posted by wallabear at 6:06 PM on August 28, 2015 [1 favorite]


Mods feel free to delete if that's out of bounds.
posted by wallabear at 6:08 PM on August 28, 2015


Oh, OK. I thought you meant something was happening elsewhere on the site on that day. And yeah that jumped out at me, too. Ah well. Takes all kinds. More importantly I am craving popcorn but feel that it is far too late to start popping. I don't want to wake my girlfriend, but I do want popcorn. Mods?
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 6:12 PM on August 28, 2015


This post eloquently expresses why I miss the unmoderated MeTa queue. This is maybe the first MeTa I've read all the way through in a year, and this makes me a terrible person. I'm totally ok with that.

And I get to learn inspiring and happy things about restless_nomad, too? Yes, please.

To the OP knowgood, a hopefully not too snarky response:

You're lucky you're posting this to a kinder, gentler, older metafilter, because back in the day this place was the acute apex of snark and scathing sarcasm. No, really, the best of the best. It made IRC or 4chan look like a school playground.

And I've probably had posts deleted before you were even in high school. I've had dozens of comments and posts deleted. I've railed at the moderation more intensely, more eloquently, and even more usefully than you could ever dream.

And I fucking love our moderators and moderation. Why? Because good discussions aren't really complete free for alls. At least not here. Here, we have rules, because it makes for more refined discussion and interaction.

There isn't an echo chamber here. There is, however, a high density of incredibly smart and world-experienced people here, from scientists to engineers, to authors and artists, to homebodies and global travelers. It was and is usually the best of the web, and if that's an echo chamber, I don't really care.

MetaFilter is about as old school as it gets in internet years. It's basically the original very first "community blog" where people shared links and commented about them in the same sense that reddit, Digg, Fark and even tumblr operate.

For almost the first 10 years of its life it was basically mathowie's pleasant, welcoming living room. MetaFilter exists because of the active, community focused moderation, and because mathowie didn't sell MetaFilter to interested buyers, because he treated it like it belonged to the users, not himself.

It is a total fucking anomaly and rare gem of the web. It has now existed nearly as long if not longer than services like AOL as a mainstream ISP, or Compuserve. It is a "made man" of the web, not by contract killing - but literally saving lives and helping people be the best that they can be.

It is a lobe of my family. My posse. I don't always agree with them or the mods, but I am a wild, untamed child, really, and I respect their wisdom and maturity, as well as their patience and kindness.

And that careful, refined moderation is really the key to why this place feels like a family. Because they strive to create an inclusive, safe space that facilitates genuine, authentic communication

And you can't buy that in a box or fake it or create it out of thin air with strict policies or guidelines. It takes real humans to do it, with real feelings, and real empathy.

So, no. I don't agree with your post. Sorry. Adapt and grasp the clues, or don't.
posted by loquacious at 6:14 PM on August 28, 2015 [85 favorites]


Yeah, I also thought you meant July 2 was busy on Metafilter in general. I thought there must have been some big even that was posted on the blue or some big blowup on Meta.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 6:17 PM on August 28, 2015


July 2nd was the day of the Reddit strike.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 6:20 PM on August 28, 2015 [11 favorites]


Could somebody please just spell out what was happening on July 2, instead of being coy about it?

Have you tried Ask or Reddit yet?
posted by Hoopo at 6:25 PM on August 28, 2015


Never mind, mods, settled for chocolate instead of popcorn.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 6:29 PM on August 28, 2015


> Popcorn-flavored pancakes!

Sorry, I'm going to have to try to make this happen now. I have access to a 10,000 sq foot kitchen with a flattop four burner griddle the size of a couch and I know how to use it.

I'm actually thinking maybe bits of buttered caramel corn. Maybe with candied bacon bits.

Aaaand now I'm thinking of candied bacon caramel popcorn balls.
posted by loquacious at 6:34 PM on August 28, 2015 [6 favorites]


I'd like to place an order, please...
posted by wallabear at 6:37 PM on August 28, 2015


There's an episode of Mind of a Chef, in the first season, where a chef makes popcorn, and then (I'm not remembering totally right here but this is the gist of it) makes grits from the popcorn. You could totally add that to pancake batter. Or just use it as the batter.

Ah ha, the video! (No sound because there isn't supposed to be)
posted by rtha at 6:53 PM on August 28, 2015 [1 favorite]


Account opened July 2. Three of four comments made July 2, then one July 7. Two ask answers, July 2. Sorry, didn't mean to tear open the contents in-thread.

Well, bear in mind that knowgood is saying that many things that she’s posted have been deleted. Given that she hasn’t made any posts (or deleted posts or questions, I should add) besides the one this thread covers, she might well be referring to other comments that have been deleted. I’m not interested in the contents of those comments, but I’d be interested in knowing if mods have deleted any of her other contributions.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:56 PM on August 28, 2015


There's an episode of Mind of a Chef, in the first season, where a chef makes popcorn, and then (I'm not remembering totally right here but this is the gist of it) makes grits from the popcorn. You could totally add that to pancake batter. Or just use it as the batter.

Popcorn-as-cereal is totally already a thing because I know I'm not the first to do that, especially with kettle corn. You just have to add milk to it and it kind of shrinks into grits, so I'm dubious about using hot water or milk/cream to make grits out of popcorn for pancakkes.

What I'm thinking is making buttered popcorn from scratch and pressing it one-popped-kernal flat into a sheet pan and drizzling a hard-ish caramel lattice glaze over it, letting it cool to popcorn-ball density and then hammering that into bits smaller than a whole popped kernel, sifting out the skin/husk bits and then either integrating this into batter before grill or sprinkling it into batter on the grill.

You'd just want a careful dusting of the popcorn bits into the batter, either softened and hydrated in-batter or crispier bits added later, perhaps just before flipping the flapjack.

However at the other extreme end, full-on popcorn-hash patties could also be a thing. Mash scoops of heavily-buttered popcorn into a grill at very high temps and low cook times, caramelizing the butter and starches and gluing it all together like a rice cake so it's crispy and buttery on the outside and yet steamed and succulent, tender on the inside like a good pancake, maybe pan fried in a bit more butter.

No, seriously, this might be a totally new, novel thing. I haven't ever heard about anything like this before short of a puffed rice cake - which is not generally slathered in butter or fat and served hot and succulent-yet-crispy like a pancake. We're basically talking about a puffed/popped/fried grain/seed turned into a patty, pancake or cornpone and re-fried. I'd argue it's more cornbread or griddlecake than a plaintive, milquetoast rice cake.

I think the closest traditional thing I can think of might be a fish cracker or poppadom, absent my knowledge of any such thing as a buttery, fatty, hot rice/grain cake.
posted by loquacious at 7:33 PM on August 28, 2015 [6 favorites]


> so I'm dubious about using hot water or milk/cream to make grits out of popcorn for pancakkes.

So what he does in the video, in case you can't watch, is basically make a reduction of the popcorn, and then grits-ify it. He pops the corn, and then puts some in a small pot with some water and a lot of butter; cook until mushy, then strain and then put the NEXT handful of popcorn in the strained stock and cook until mushy, repeat until all the popcorn has been mushified in this increasingly intense stock. Mash the mush through a strainer and eat. Or turn into pancakes!
posted by rtha at 7:39 PM on August 28, 2015


There used to be magical popcorn bread pudding at a now-defunct restaurant in Portland. (RIP Gilt Club). The popped kernels didn't get soggy at all. I think your plan would work, loquacious.
posted by janell at 7:44 PM on August 28, 2015


I would eat those popcorn-hash patties. I would also subscribe to Loq's newsletter.
posted by Kreiger at 8:07 PM on August 28, 2015


Congratulations you guys what wonderful news.

OP, your vision of metafilter does not align with the communities goals, nor is reality. If you don't wish to stick around to develop more sensitivity to site norms, this may not be the place for you. And that's okay, it's not everything.
posted by smoke at 8:09 PM on August 28, 2015 [2 favorites]


am i too late to declare bee plans
posted by shakespeherian at 8:29 PM on August 28, 2015 [5 favorites]


Poopy. I took that word from home, via my three year old; to work; oops. I use it again, here.

Poopy post.

No oops involved.

Just poopy.
posted by buzzman at 8:41 PM on August 28, 2015


Aww, congratulations on the engagement! The happy mood here is incredibly infectious. This has become a really awesome Friday!

Even if like, a TOTALLY thoroughly authentic question has been deleted.

(Seriously has anyone checked that question's pedigree? The line goes back to AskMe royalty.)
posted by erratic meatsack at 8:45 PM on August 28, 2015 [1 favorite]


This very day I took out frozen cornbread muffins I thought were too dry, when I made them. I was going to save them to make stuffing, but no. In the mood for sweetness, I thawed them, put them in the blender with sugar, 1.5 tsp baking powder, three eggs, vanilla, cinnamon, nutmeg, rum, soy milk, some plain greek yogurt. Then I baked this in in a parchment paper lined dish at 350° until it smelled toasty, rather than impending vanilla Samadhi. It bounces back but is moist. This was wonderful on its own, but better with a loose, gingery apricot butter. I have to invent a low fat, lower sugar rum sauce for this, the recipes I read were a suicidal activity considering fat and sugar content.
posted by Oyéah at 9:13 PM on August 28, 2015 [2 favorites]


I've got this idea for stuffing a chicken with popped corn and scallions.
posted by Mr. Yuck at 9:57 PM on August 28, 2015


put them in the blender with sugar, 1.5 tsp baking powder, three eggs, vanilla, cinnamon, nutmeg, rum, soy milk, some plain greek yogurt.

HOW MUCH GREEK YOGURT IS SOME GREEK YOGURT THIS IS AN EMERGENCY

not really but i have some dry-as-hell cornbread and don't want to waste it (maybe that is an emergency; i have no perspective in life.)
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 10:01 PM on August 28, 2015 [3 favorites]


I joined Metafilter because I was interested in community feedback, not the feedback of the same tiny handful of moderators who all think alike.

I think the community feedback you're getting here is, "You should listen more closely to the tiny handful of moderators when they're talking to you."

....just got deleted by apparently a female moderator who calls herself Jeremy. Seriously? Am I not supposed to jump to the conclusion I have been subject to prejudice here?

This is seriously impressive, how you can exhibit your prejudice and feel prejudiced in nearly the same breath. Like, next level obliviousness. I don't get high on drugs, so I love next level shit like this.
posted by dogwalker at 10:26 PM on August 28, 2015 [6 favorites]


"this isn't a Peter Frampton LP" is a flaw in a juicy peach.

Shall I grow my hair behind? Do I dare to buy a Peter Frampton LP?
posted by uncleozzy at 11:02 AM on August 28 [22 favorites +] [!]


Hey, take this question to AskMe.
posted by a humble nudibranch at 10:29 PM on August 28, 2015 [2 favorites]


OP, if you're out there somewhere, please give Michele in California's comment and post above a read. It's invaluable for helping you get a handle on the site culture. Your original post wasn't a good fit for AskMe, so it was naturally deleted, but I'm interested in the content and think you could reframe it as a good Ask if you wanted. Please be kind to the mods, though. restless_nomad isn't your enemy; she's an awesome person who could help you a ton with understanding the site if you just ask. I'm not the world's best communicator either and she's been great about helping me figure out how to frame questions every time I've used the contact form. I think it's possible that you're not trolling, just confused and then you got angry, so I genuinely hope you stick around and learn how cool the site can be. Just remember your words are affecting real people.

Congrats to restless_nomad and Alex Haist! [throws flower petals]
posted by thetortoise at 10:37 PM on August 28, 2015 [4 favorites]


Ah what a great MeTa. I went from being truly puzzled by both the OP's complaint about deletion and the deleted AskMe itself, to learning that congratulations are in order for restless_nomad and Alex Haist. Hooray! Congratulations on your impending nuptials!
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 10:51 PM on August 28, 2015


It's a stunt post!
posted by clavdivs at 10:54 PM on August 28, 2015


Congrats restless_nomad and Alex Haist!
Awesome news!
posted by chococat at 11:34 PM on August 28, 2015


When I started lurking here, Michael was the most ridiculous Palin. Count me also as being very surprised by the direction this MeTa took.

Also congratulations to the Haist-Nomads. Or is it Nomad-Haists?
posted by Freelance Demiurge at 11:58 PM on August 28, 2015 [3 favorites]


I have no corn, but I do have extra sourdough starter that I was about to throw out, so I'm off to make celebratory pancakes in honour of r_n and AH. Yay, pancakes for everyone!
posted by kjs4 at 12:12 AM on August 29, 2015


Congrats restless_nomad and Alex Haist! Post when the happy day is upon us.
posted by bjgeiger at 3:40 AM on August 29, 2015


So when do we find out that knowgood is actually restless_nomad or Alex Haist's sockpuppet?
posted by klausness at 4:42 AM on August 29, 2015 [1 favorite]


restless_nomad and Alex Haist!
posted by parki at 4:49 AM on August 29, 2015


Congratulations on the engagement!

But I'm surprised that a meta post that was so obviously at the intersection of performance art and cognitive limitation made it through the queue. No one who didn't get it before is going to suddenly get it after reading several hundred comments, funny as some of them are.
posted by Dip Flash at 4:57 AM on August 29, 2015 [4 favorites]


so obviously at the intersection of performance art and cognitive limitation

This may be the greatest phrase of all time. Of all time!
posted by billiebee at 5:12 AM on August 29, 2015 [11 favorites]


Congratulations restless_nomad and Alex Haist - wishing you a lifetime of happiness together!
posted by NoraCharles at 6:06 AM on August 29, 2015


So when do we find out that knowgood is actually restless_nomad or Alex Haist's sockpuppet?

This will be the event that once and for all confirms the existence of an odious mod cabal.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:20 AM on August 29, 2015 [1 favorite]


Thoughts:

1) The deleted post breaks the guidelines for AskMe, and should have been deleted. Nothing controversial or surprising, except

2) The deleted post is also a self-link, so I'm a little surprised that the user wasn't banned. Maybe r_n decided to give a new user leeway.

3) The deleted post and this MeTa are odd enough that I would suspect that they are all a sneaky way to announce the engagement, except that's silly even more MetaFilter, and:

4) This is just one more piece evidence that supports my theory that "no bad deletion MeTa ever shows that the comment or post should have not been deleted or leaves the poster looking better than if they had just stayed silent."I get that having your epic prose deleted stinks, but, really, airing it out in public just makes things worse.
posted by GenjiandProust at 6:59 AM on August 29, 2015 [4 favorites]


I think that moderation here can be pretty ridiculous, primarily in the nigh-limitless benefit-of-the-doubt they give people showing up who name themselves I Am Not Here In Good Faith wearing a I'm Just Here To Stir The Pot shirts and I'm Obviously Trolling And Not Bothering To Hide It sandwich boards while tracing Haha This Is Bullshit in a laser light show using Bad Faith brand lasers manufactured by BadFaith Co, Ltd. and smoke machine by Waste Of Time Industries with the stickers still on it, and the moderation culture will say, hmm, let's not be hasty about their intentions, they might just be confused or having a bad day.

As internet-community moderation ridiculousness goes, there are worse ones!

(Congrats!)
posted by Drastic at 7:07 AM on August 29, 2015 [38 favorites]


This is just one more piece evidence that supports my theory that "no bad deletion MeTa ever shows that the comment or post should have not been deleted or leaves the poster looking better than if they had just stayed silent."

I can think of at least two examples where posts were restored after community outcry against a bad deletion. I think I've even seen one come back, then get killed a second time because it went poorly. No idea about comments.
posted by cjorgensen at 7:12 AM on August 29, 2015


Oooh, I forgot the most important part:

CONGRATULATIONS, ALEX HAIST AND RESTLESS_NOMAD! BEST OF EVERYTHING, ALWAYS!!!!!!
posted by GenjiandProust at 7:13 AM on August 29, 2015


Congratulations, Jeremy and Alex!

The thing is, we want this place to be worthy of reading multiple times a day and the mods are here to make sure that continues to happen. It stings when you say something that's judged to be unworthy but that is, with hindsight, much better than having your sophomoric blatherings littering up the place and embarrassing you when you read back seven years later.
posted by h00py at 7:14 AM on August 29, 2015 [3 favorites]


I can think of at least two examples where posts were restored after community outcry against a bad deletion.

I am reasonably satisfied with a rule whose exceptions fall in the range of tenths of percents, but point taken.
posted by GenjiandProust at 7:15 AM on August 29, 2015 [1 favorite]


Self-links in askme are often okay, though sometimes the mods ask the OP to put the link in their profile instead of the question. It's not like the "thou shalt not self-link when making an fpp" rule.
posted by rtha at 7:18 AM on August 29, 2015 [1 favorite]


That's why all my questions about AMAZING DEALS ON NAME BRAND DESIGNER SUNGLASSES always stay up
posted by item at 8:46 AM on August 29, 2015 [12 favorites]


Yeah, a link on the Blue to the effect of "Hey, look at this awesome graphic I made!" would be right out, banned, kill it with fire. But I think a question on the Green to the effect of "I've been working on this graphic, and I'd like some feedback... does it get the idea across well? If not, how might I improve it?" would be fair game.

(The case at hand was not such a question, to be clear.)
posted by Shmuel510 at 9:19 AM on August 29, 2015 [2 favorites]


You guys were married? Neat.
posted by mule98J at 9:53 AM on August 29, 2015


I joined Metafilter because I was interested in community feedback, not the feedback of the same tiny handful of moderators who all think alike.

Very well.
posted by flabdablet at 10:33 AM on August 29, 2015 [1 favorite]


Guys I'm making cumin-strawberry preserves right now and they are SO GOOD.
posted by Itaxpica at 11:18 AM on August 29, 2015 [3 favorites]


I read this whole goddamned thread just so I could say: Congrats Alex and Jeremy!
posted by klangklangston at 11:59 AM on August 29, 2015 [4 favorites]


Short answer: nope.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 12:01 PM on August 29, 2015 [1 favorite]


AskMe in basically Dear Abby with lots and lots of different Abbies.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 12:10 PM on August 29, 2015 [2 favorites]


I read this in bed at 4a, and I was too sleepy to properly type, but quickly, before it's overdue:

MAZEL TOV, Jeremy & Alex, and I'm delighted for you both. Happy wedding planning, and happy futures to you!

And duffell, for my part, "But that's not really a flaw in Metafilter, any more than "this isn't a Peter Frampton LP" is a flaw in a juicy peach." is the very best thing I've read on Metafilter in 15 years. Thank you!
posted by The Wrong Kind of Cheese at 12:21 PM on August 29, 2015 [1 favorite]


Congratulations, Alex and Jeremy!
posted by box at 12:51 PM on August 29, 2015


Congratulations restless_nomad and Alex Haist!!! We're all invited to the wedding, right? Just set up a web-cam and a computer with MetaChat running, and we're probably set.

GuyZero: So now I have to go a feel silenced all my life over here all by myself.

*offers a slice of engagement cake and some champagne*

If you're asking what a default human should be, a sort of philosophical question, then that's not appropriate for AskMe or Meta. Take it to reddit.

You could do a search on the topic, turn up some interesting posts, and make a post on the Blue for it, too. Or turn it into a blog and add it to Projects. There are options, is all I'm sayin'.

restless_nomad: Actually it means that all of our disagreements are tediously verbose, calm, and literal. We define terms, we use negotiating best-practices, we consider relative emotional labor - man, we're boring.

OMG, ew, you sound like my mom and step-dad!!!! (I'm so jealous)
posted by Deoridhe at 12:58 PM on August 29, 2015 [2 favorites]


Apologies for the receipe upthread.


(It is so good, though)
posted by 4ster at 1:09 PM on August 29, 2015 [1 favorite]


knowgood, in a successful effort to kill time and not do my Saturday chores, I read all your comments. I will now parse a couple:

"I am not a convicted criminal." Okay. That's probably true and I believe it.
"I am [not] obscene." No, you're not. True.
"I am also not a self-important 15-year-old boy with delusions of superiority." You don't seem like one, no. True.

"I am not disrespectful-" Yes you are. "...unless someone else is, and even then I try not to [be]." You may try, but you do not succeed. Your "Jeremy? Seriously?" is disrespectful; if that's you trying not to respond in kind to perceived disrespect, it's a try that failed. False.

"I'm [not] unclear." False. False. Gloriously, hilariously false.

You are supremely unclear. Your sentences are ornate when they don't need to be; you sacrifice clarity for flourish often; you drop the reader into a sea of no-context from word one, and you plop in mysterymeat links instead of explaining yourself.

I had to beat my way into your comment about the Dutch wealth gap with a pickaxe. I mean, look at this:
"[The Dutch aren't as egalitarian as they like to make out.] Wealth is felt or measured influence and freedom in any vertical of human endeavor..."

"Wealth is felt or measured-" I'm with you, G, more, please! Pray tell, how is wealth felt or measured?
"Wealth is felt or measured influence-" recordscratch! Huh? Wait, must've read wrong, better try that again.
"Wealth is felt or measured influence." All right, what's happening? Keep going, maybe it'll make sense in a mo.
"Wealth is felt or measured influence and freedom..." I think maybe it's a typo. There should be a "by" after measured. Yeah, wealth is measured by influence. Influence in what?

I must have misread it upwards of three times. FINALLY figured out "felt or measured" both modify "influence" and that you were attempting to define "wealth" for us.

"...any vertical of human endeavor." GodDAMN, that's pretty. Pour yourself a Glenlivet for that one.

It was also a rare treat to then read a gargantuan list of all the vertical-of-endeavor-rich spheres of human awesomedoing you could think of in a big comma-larded parade ending with "etc."

"...corporate, technological, fiscal, academic, artistic, athletic, familial, medical, environmental, media, etc. It's just power, which begets power, and is thus in perplexing ways inherently un-egalitarian. That's the real problem."

At this point you should be finished with the bottle of Glenlivet and lying passed out on your polarbear rug with your silktasseled slipper toes dangerously close to your parlor fire. None of that bullshit was necessary. Here's what you needed to do:

"The Dutch have an undeserved good reputation for economic parity when in fact they have the same problem the United States has with the rich people holding all the wealth but being taxed only on income. Here's a great article about it in The Economist [link]." And that's it! Comment over! We do not need you to say "wealth is power" for us in about 870 more words than necessary because we have all heard "wealth is power" fivethousand times and we know what the hell it means.

Finally, I'm baffled that you think anybody anywhere in the entire world could read this: " ...the palatableness of viewing pregnant women as default humans also (you know, on top of gay people, old people, young people, and handicapped people)" without the benefit of the mysterymeat links in the original askme, even, and have even the foggiest notion what you meant by any of it. I know what you meant by it because I read the original question and clicked the links--but who other than somebody with a pile of papers they don't want to grade would take the time to do that? And there're no links here and you don't explain! This is what I mean by "sea of no context." You have not been clear. There is zero chance that anybody will understand you.

You might have tried making a front-page post about pregnant women and including among the links this thing so that you could make your (actually rather nifty) point about a pregnant woman being the logical urperson so that white guys would look in the mirror and say to themselves, "I see a lil white boy" whereas every pregnant woman of every race and creed would look in the mirror and say to herself, "I see humanity." Or, you know, just give it a couple days and somebody'll see that thing on Facebook too just as you and I did and plop it here and then you can make your point in the comments.
posted by Don Pepino at 1:09 PM on August 29, 2015 [25 favorites]


posted by The Wrong Kind of Cheese 47 minutes ago [+]

Interested.
posted by Wordshore at 1:10 PM on August 29, 2015 [2 favorites]


I love it, in a fussy way.
posted by clavdivs at 1:11 PM on August 29, 2015


MetaTalk: There is zero chance that anybody will understand you.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 2:37 PM on August 29, 2015 [1 favorite]


But what are the odds they will stand under you?

Enquiring minds want to know.
posted by Michele in California at 2:42 PM on August 29, 2015 [1 favorite]


what are the odds they will stand under you?

"Behold the underminer! Nothing's below me but I'm always below you..." etc.
posted by Namlit at 2:51 PM on August 29, 2015 [2 favorites]


I have to invent a low fat, lower sugar rum sauce for this


Rarely have I seen a wronger thing written on this site.


But yes- mazel tov, Alex & Jeremy.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 2:52 PM on August 29, 2015 [4 favorites]


At this point you should be finished with the bottle of Glenlivet and lying passed out on your polarbear rug with your silktasseled slipper toes dangerously close to your parlor fire.


You keep Christmas in your way, let me keep it in mine.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 2:55 PM on August 29, 2015 [14 favorites]


The moderation culture here is in fact a little ridiculous sometimes--but for none of the reasons the OP listed.
posted by DrAmerica at 3:02 PM on August 29, 2015


Sorry that should have been

"Behold, the Underminer! I'm always beneath you, but nothing is beneath me!"

Precision dammit, precision
posted by Namlit at 3:04 PM on August 29, 2015 [9 favorites]


OP - No. See above re: lurk more.

R_N & Alex - Many congratulations!

Now, will somebody please tell me about these non-edible uses for cheese?!
posted by MuChao at 3:08 PM on August 29, 2015 [1 favorite]


To offer an example, this comment was allowed to stand in the thread about Uber's Smart Routes:

"it's funny how jitneys and dollar vans already exist, but this whole parallel system has to be invented because fancy people won't ride them.

oh wait haha did I say funny I actually meant racist"

It's such a tired, eye-roll-inducing MetaFilter cliche. "People only use Uber because they're racist!" completely ignores the shitty cab service in many cities, the predictability of Uber, the not having to deal with cash/tipping, (not to mention cab drivers are more likely to be non-white than Uber drivers) etc. But it pushes the right buttons and activates the "calling out perceived racism" reward pathways so it remains in the thread, with over a dozen favorites to boot.
posted by DrAmerica at 3:26 PM on August 29, 2015


What guideline or rule does it break that would mean it should be deleted? I mean yeah people are sort of jerks all the time here. It's being an asshole that is against the rules.
posted by jessamyn (retired) at 3:31 PM on August 29, 2015 [8 favorites]


Isn't there a saying by a philosopher or somesuch along the lines of "all MetaTalk posts about moderation demonstrate the necessity of moderation". Something like that.
posted by Pyrogenesis at 3:32 PM on August 29, 2015 [2 favorites]


Metafilter: It's such a tired, eye-roll-inducing MetaFilter cliche.
posted by Pyrogenesis at 3:35 PM on August 29, 2015 [2 favorites]


It's noise. If everything is racist then nothing is.
posted by DrAmerica at 3:38 PM on August 29, 2015


A fuckton of cheese was mashed into a White House carpet during one of Andrew Jackson's inaugural balls. Good for the rug? ;-P
posted by brujita at 3:41 PM on August 29, 2015 [1 favorite]


From experience, the "if everything is X then nothing is X" activates so many wannabe "gotcha" reward pathways it feels like a redditor on heroin.
posted by Pyrogenesis at 3:45 PM on August 29, 2015 [12 favorites]


We don't delete many comments on the blue on the basis of them being noise, actually. It's a much more likely reason to get a comment deleted on AskMe. It seems like that comment went okay in the thread though and didn't derail the whole discussion.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 4:01 PM on August 29, 2015 [4 favorites]


If every part of the carpet is covered in cheese, then none of the carpet is covered in cheese.
posted by Drastic at 4:02 PM on August 29, 2015 [11 favorites]


If the entire plate is full of beans, then there are no beans.
posted by tonycpsu at 4:05 PM on August 29, 2015 [2 favorites]


As a pedant I feel it necessary to mention for the sake of future generations that the true conclusion from "if everything is X" is "therefore everything is X".

It so happens that the very issue represents one of the two academic disciplines of which I partake: Indeed, I am a proud Tautologist, and also a Misanthropologist.
posted by Pyrogenesis at 4:14 PM on August 29, 2015 [4 favorites]


When everyone is somebody... then no-one's anybody!
posted by moonmilk at 4:23 PM on August 29, 2015 [1 favorite]


There have only been 2 Meta posts tagged with echochamber, and they were 15 years apart. Cool.
posted by terrapin at 4:34 PM on August 29, 2015 [6 favorites]


If every part of the carpet is covered in cheese, then none of the carpet is covered in cheese.
posted by Drastic 45 minutes ago [3 favorites +]
If the entire plate is full of beans, then there are no beans.
posted by tonycpsu 42 minutes ago [+]


All's I know is, you two better get this figured out pretty soon 'cause I'm getting a major craving for burritos.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 4:51 PM on August 29, 2015 [5 favorites]


Interesting historical note- the reason the White House carpet was covered in cheese was that during the inaugural ball, a drunken Andrew Jackson used a large wheel of Parmesan to bludgeon a steamboat captain from western Ohio.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 5:02 PM on August 29, 2015 [6 favorites]


There have only been 2 Meta posts tagged with echochamber, and they were 15 years apart. Cool.

Big old chamber, to have an echo that long.
posted by Dysk at 5:07 PM on August 29, 2015 [4 favorites]


Every once in a while I try to imagine people having a discussion in an anechoic chamber and just how goddam weird it would feel.
posted by cortex (staff) at 5:39 PM on August 29, 2015 [18 favorites]


Congratulations restless_nomad and Alex Haist.

knowgood giving you the good faith benefit of the doubt that you aren't epically trolling the site; the site isn't small voice of a few moderators. I suggest (and with your 20 years of online experience you should be able to fully grok this advice) that you *LURK MOAR* before calling out the moderation again until you can see how diverse the site is.

Johnny Wallflower: "*there is no Cabal"

Sure there is, but Matt is the only member.

Rustic Etruscan: "hmmm I thought "never read the comments" was the first rule of the internet???"

Only at sites without ridiculous moderation culture.
posted by Mitheral at 5:53 PM on August 29, 2015


Knowgood, your Meta comes under the heading High Dudgeon, a phrase I enjoy trotting out, so thanks for that. Your Ask.Me was rambly and more of a discussion starter than a discrete answerable question.

From time to time, the, moderation chafes a little. Sometimes very vocal contingents influence the moderation in ways I think are sub-optimal. More often, much more often, moderation keeps the site usable. Sites with less moderation or less skillful moderation can become cesspools. You could read the wiki, email the mods with concerns, email other MeFites, and learn more about how this community operates. I still find it quite valuable.

Questions like yours with a strong air of self-righteousness do tend to bring out the snark here in MetaTalk.

I hope you hang around and figure it out.
posted by theora55 at 6:12 PM on August 29, 2015 [2 favorites]


Jeremy & Alex, what lovely news; best wishes.
posted by theora55 at 6:19 PM on August 29, 2015 [1 favorite]


DrAmerica's category error is actually kind of interesting in what it reveals.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 6:26 PM on August 29, 2015 [5 favorites]


E̷v̡̛e͏̛͢r͜ỳ̸͘ ̸̀o̡n̴̕͞c̴̢e̵͟ i͝n̡͘͢ ͝a̵̷ ̵̡w͠hi͞le̡ ͠I̛͘ ͘͞t̢̡͡ry̷͠͠ ͏̀͢t͝o̵̢͟ ̴̛͟im̸͟agi͏ne ̴͢͡p҉́eo͢͝p͜͢l̶͞e̢͢҉ ̵͞ha̵vi̶͝n̴̴g̨͟ ̕a ́͘dis̵̢çu̴̷͜şs̸i͟on i͡͏n͘͝ ̡an͡ ̶͞a̵̕n̸ec͠h̵͏͟ò͡ic̡̕͡ ͏̢c͢h͞a̴͢m҉b̵͝e͏r̸ ̸̀a̶͝ń̴d̷͜ j̡u͞͠s͢͠͠ţ̴́ ̶h̶̨͞ò͢w͞ ̛̀͜g̕̕od̢͢͡da͜͠m͘͜ ͢͜w̵̴e̵̡̡i͜͠r͏̕͠d̕ ̵͞i͏t͝ w͡o̸͞u̵l̡͠҉d ̴fe͞el̡͝.̸

what?

I̶ ͏s̶aid͢"EV͝E҉͡RY͞ ̵̛O̵N̨C̴͝E͠͏ Į̧́N̕ ͞͡A ̴͡W̵̢͝Ḩ͟͡IL̀Ȩ ͡I͡ ̛T͝RY̨ ̸͢TǪ̡ Į͝M̵̧A͢͢G͘I̧̛N̴̸͘E ͠P̛̀E̵O̶͟P͘L̴E̸͘͢ ͠H͟͞A̡̛͞V͠I̶͜N̷̸G̵ ͟A̛͜͝ ̢D̸I̴̶ŞÇ̵̵U͞͡S̶͘S̶I̶̸Ò̧͡Ǹ ͟I͡N̛̕͜ ͏A̶̡N̛ ͝A̸N̷͡͠È̶҉C̢͞͠Ḩ̕OĮ̛C̷͡ ̛͜C̛͞HÁ̷M̡͜B̵̨͞E̸̵R҉ ͘͡AǸ͡D҉̴ ̵̵͜J̶̴U͢͝S̴͝T̷̵ ̵͟H̴OW ̸G̸̴Ơ͞D̨D҉A̶͟M̷ ̶̸WE҉̕ÌR̷̷D̛ ̷̶I͘T W̴͘O̷͡U҉̧Ĺ̨̧D̷̨̨ ̵̀͞FEE̵͏̡L͠͡!̶̨͞"̕

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:39 PM on August 29, 2015 [13 favorites]


Add my best wishes to the pile. That's the sort of pileon I can get behind!

Regarding the question asked: No, MeFi's moderation is not ridiculous. It is stricter than most other sites, but that is a good thing. Perhaps it has gotten more strict in some ways than I would prefer in an ideal world, but the reduced staffing of late has necessitated that approach. One way this manifests itself in a really problematic way is evident in political posts at times. The larger group of members is occasionally successful at getting the "opposing" viewpoint silenced by immediately flinging enough shit to make the mods go "nope, this line of discussion is not going to go well" and delete the original comment and all its shitty replies. Sometimes this happens even when the original opposition comment is not fighty or otherwise problematic in any way I can discern. Again, I understand why this happens; there is only so much time in the day and not enough mods to police such a shitshow, but it does kinda suck when it does happen. However, that sort of thing is the exception that proves the rule. It is jarring precisely because the moderation is almost uniformly fair and reasonable.

Point is, there may be some minor problems, but overall MeFi's moderation style works to make the site an excellent place to have a discussion, so long as you can bring yourself to have at least a modicum of respect for the rules and the other members.
posted by wierdo at 6:58 PM on August 29, 2015 [5 favorites]


Every once in a while I try to imagine people having a discussion in an anechoic chamber and just how goddam weird it would feel.

So, if you've never had the pleasure of being in a smart practice room, they're basically acoustically dead rooms with tiny microphones speakers that you can set to mimic the acoustics of different sized rooms. Talking without any sort of echo is a little disorienting, trying to make an instrument sound good is soul destroying.
posted by Gygesringtone at 7:13 PM on August 29, 2015 [8 favorites]


√ Mods are evil
√ Mod is engaged (congratulations!)
√ Bees
√ Cheese
√ Anechoic chamber

Holy shit! I finally won bingo in hard mode!
posted by double block and bleed at 7:32 PM on August 29, 2015 [25 favorites]


This metatalk has 200 comments. Most of which are people trying to be cleverer than the immediately previous posters in insulting the OP. But yes, we are a tolerant and welcoming community.
posted by Another Fine Product From The Nonsense Factory


Leaving money on the table, people, c'mon.

Also, congrats!
posted by krinklyfig at 8:19 PM on August 29, 2015 [4 favorites]


"Have you ever noticed that pregnant women are default humans on top of other marginalized people who are using accessible bathrooms in the career landscape? And what's all this about women named Jeremy? It's why I refuse to perform at colleges anymore. On top of regular women, can we just accept very pregnant women as the new universal symbol for human beings? I must have offended a liberal with that doodle I created to get a rise out of white people, or that's what you probably assume. I'll tell you what offends me: airplane food. The Greatest Generation wouldn't stand for that kind of nonsense. And they would still be default humans if they were in a Chinese airport for a ten hour layover, mark my words. We'd still have enough money left to have a wedding and exchange recipes. That's who we are, and we may be a dying breed, but we're not going anywhere. That's my question."
/ Andy Rooney-Seinfeld
posted by krinklyfig at 8:57 PM on August 29, 2015 [14 favorites]


Carpet cheese would make a great post.
posted by clavdivs at 9:36 PM on August 29, 2015


Guys I'm making cumin-strawberry preserves right now and they are SO GOOD. Recipe Please!!?!
posted by kjs4 at 9:46 PM on August 29, 2015 [1 favorite]


Carpet cheese: full of fibre.
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 9:52 PM on August 29, 2015 [4 favorites]


BTW, the style of the writing of this post reminds me very much of a pensioner writing into the BBC's Points of View teevee programme to complain about the fact Alan Titchmarsh wasn't wearing that sweater she had spent the long winter months knitting and sent in, the one with Alan Titchmarsh's face on the front, and a Great Tit on the back.
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 10:01 PM on August 29, 2015 [8 favorites]


> There have only been 2 Meta posts tagged with echochamber, and they were 15 years apart. Cool.

I think that means that the echo chamber is just a tad more than 1 astronomical unit long (1.0 au = mean Earth-Sun distance). That's a big chamber.

/Edit: I should have read further before commenting. I'm a dupe.
posted by benito.strauss at 10:44 PM on August 29, 2015


My understanding is that to obtain the ex-echo-chamber privilege you must first marry a mod, or at least be spousenated via your contacts. As this isn't the case here, according to the Metafilter/Plastic Treaty of 2001, this complaint is null and void.
posted by blue_beetle at 10:46 PM on August 29, 2015


Congratulations, Alex & Jeremy!

Also nobody has mentioned this awesome line from knowgood's profile:
Who's moderating the moderators?
posted by salvia at 11:16 PM on August 29, 2015 [1 favorite]


That line is why I think they're a troll, rather than acting in good faith.

Ah well, congrats to the lovely couple!
posted by Braeburn at 11:41 PM on August 29, 2015 [2 favorites]


Why don't we have a mecipes page yet? Also, given the limited number of mods, I'd be happy to marry a mefite (memail me).
posted by b33j at 12:08 AM on August 30, 2015 [2 favorites]


MEE-cypes
posted by nom de poop at 12:38 AM on August 30, 2015 [6 favorites]


Who's moderating the moderators?

The membership! That's one of the things MeTa is for.
posted by Dysk at 2:00 AM on August 30, 2015 [1 favorite]


I'm not going to lie. This headline made me so happy. The post made me happier still. We, the epicureans of snark, were about to feast from a veritable cornucopia of grar. This was going to be epic.

Then someone mentioned love and marriage and happiness. These being schmoop that normally spoils the grar. But something strange happened. The schmoop and the grar combined into something more enjoyable than a purely grar-ry post or a (blech) purely schmoopy post.

And so the sad little troll was defeated by love. And hate. Together.
posted by double block and bleed at 4:08 AM on August 30, 2015 [23 favorites]


The teacher part of my brain wants to be all positive reinforcement and examine knowgood's comment to pull out little pieces where I can see something positive happening so I can acknowledge their thinking and say, "Great job! Let's discuss your thoughts and see where you were going with this!"

and then I realize this is EXACTLY what's wrong in education these days. Teachers are no longer allowed to just say, "Oh my God, what were you thinking? You are being SO stupid."
posted by kinetic at 4:08 AM on August 30, 2015 [11 favorites]


Reading the thread, after realizing I would never understand the original post's reasoning, and coming on the happy news I whipped up a ton of witty witty comments that were then (and consistently better phrased at that) made one after the other.

Congrats! Jeremy and Alex! Thanks for contributing to the global supply of love! We can always use a little more! Have a great day!
posted by From Bklyn at 4:13 AM on August 30, 2015 [1 favorite]


Also nobody has mentioned this awesome line from knowgood's profile:
Who's moderating the moderators?


I hadn't mention this because I thought posting profile stuff was considered rude or something, even if it is visible to anyone clicking this person's name. But yes, that's a big red flag to me. Likely a reincarnated Warrior for Truth and Justice.

The ironic thing is that OP does demonstrate probably the most ridiculous part of Metafilter moderation: to echo Drastic, the incredibly high bar for suffering fools. I kind of loathe the idea that this may be another user who'll bang on and on for months or years about censorship and echo chambers and jackboots until they say something so horrible, directly to a mod, that only then they'll finally get banned. Do we have to repeat that cycle? Can't we nip this in the bud?

I know tolerance over knee-jerk reactions is the name of the game here, and I do appreciate that and think it's the way to go 99% of the time. I just don't think this is one of those times. Unless, as was hilariously suggested, knowgood is a mod sockpuppet created for the express purpose of creating this MeTa. And if that's the case, Alex and Jeremy, I will happily send wedding gifts in the mail.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 5:01 AM on August 30, 2015 [4 favorites]


Do we have to repeat that cycle? Can't we nip this in the bud?

I've been working on being more willing to be a bud-nipper about some of this stuff, and do think it's worth us just saying "nope" to a bad pattern of behavior a little sooner than we sometimes have historically. So I don't really disagree in spirit there or anything.

On the other hand, I can see some distance between ratcheting down the amount of effort we expend on that stuff (for it!) and going to a zero-tolerance sort of thing where a little bit of acting out is a ban on the assumption that it won't get better after a course correction.

So, my impression from what we've seen is basically that knowgood is someone with no particular Mefi history or trollish agenda, with fairly specific and incorrect expectations about Metafilter that have informed a really ill-considered metatalk gripe.

Which: maybe that's because they're fundamentally not someone who can get along with Metafilter and get what they want out of being here. Or maybe they're someone who can tamp down some instincts or habits acquired elsewhere and get along here just fine. That's up to them and comes down to whether and how they choose to try participating following this whole ridiculous thing. But that's up to them, and we'll see what happens, and I'm up for being simultaneously optimistic that they can make it work and realistic about the possibility that they won't and we'll have to call it. We'll get there when we get there.
posted by cortex (staff) at 6:00 AM on August 30, 2015 [19 favorites]


1. OP There was no discernable question.
2. OP This meta got you what you deserved.
3. To the two getting hitched - whatever floats your boat. May you both be consumed by long time happiness.
posted by adamvasco at 6:12 AM on August 30, 2015


I joined Metafilter because I was interested in community feedback, not the feedback of the same tiny handful of moderators who all think alike.

How You Like Me Now?
posted by kinetic at 6:32 AM on August 30, 2015 [1 favorite]


You know, after reading all the well thought out and written comments on moderation, I feel I need to expand just a bit on my short and to the point answer on if I thought the mods here were out of control in any way.

Fuck no.

This has been a special edition of short answers to long questions. See you again at our regularly scheduled time.
posted by eriko at 6:49 AM on August 30, 2015 [4 favorites]


First, congrats to Alex & Jeremy!

As for the OP, the attempt at name-shaming struck me as one of the most juvenile things I've seen on this site in my many years here. As a male named Dana, I'm admittedly a bit more sensitive to it than most, but to see an adult go there, especially on MeFi, was jarring. All of the needlessly obtuse and flowery language in the world can't hide the fact that you're functioning at grade-school bully level.
posted by gimli at 8:47 AM on August 30, 2015 [26 favorites]


How Ya Like Me Now?
posted by box at 9:02 AM on August 30, 2015 [2 favorites]


In sincere mode: New member, question not good. Maybe add a link to a useful section of the wiki? I see a lot less snark in deletion reasons, and while I enjoy snark, it's not effective at making things work better most of the time.
posted by theora55 at 10:53 AM on August 30, 2015



Congratulations, restless_nomad and Alex Haist, and wishing you great happiness and epic road trips ahead!
posted by vers at 11:59 AM on August 30, 2015


Just thought I would pop back in to add my congratulations and a few words to knowgood: Assuming your deleted post was made in all sincerity, you need to work on making your thoughts comprehensible. The concept was possibly not without merit. But not too much with, on the other hand. Make yourself clear.

If it was about your artwork, well, the artwork was not without merit. But not that much with, in my opinion. As a universal symbol. If having an image of a pregnant woman as a universal symbol was where you were going. Of course, that opens a whole can of conceptual worms. What were you trying to say ? Make yourself clear.

And remember that everything you write online is written in stone. You have been online 20 years ? Surely you should know better than to post in anger by now. In theory. But we are all default humans when we lose it.

I will say this about the moderation here. Jeremy has deleted so many stupid things I have said. At my own request, made seconds to minutes to hours and longer after whatever stupid thing it was I said. I am forever grateful for it. And for the times she did so when I didn't ask. She is the greatest in my book.

Your original post made little sense and as for this complaint to follow it up, well, you are now a part of communal history. Live up to it.

And, please, please , lose the insults, self pity and hashtags if you stick around. Because they are all writ in stone.

And best wishes and good luck to you two, Alex and Jeremy. In immoderation.
posted by y2karl at 12:27 PM on August 30, 2015 [7 favorites]


Talking without any sort of echo is a little disorienting, trying to make an instrument sound good is soul destroying.

A couple years back I did the Planets with the Seattle Symphony -- the last movement, Neptune, calls for an "offstage women's choir" to be sort of the music of the spheres as the listener passes out of the solar system. We've tried a lot of different places to put that choir, and the most recent was in the soundlock right behind the Founder's Tier (first balcony). It had a lot of advantages -- good access to the acoustical space of the hall, good sightlines to the conductor, etc. But because of the soundproofing, we had to sing at TOP VOLUME in order to be heard in the hall, and while the space isn't anechoic by any stretch of the imagination, it's not very live at all. It's, like, in an acoustical coma. So we had about 72 adult women singing 9-part cluster harmony in an odd scale, in straight tone (no vibrato), at the top of our goddamn lungs.

The harmonics were like chewing on tinfoil. The stagehand who was there with us looked really alarmed.
posted by KathrynT at 12:46 PM on August 30, 2015 [17 favorites]


Carpet cheese
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:39 PM on August 30, 2015


As a male named Dana, I'm admittedly a bit more sensitive to it than most

As a man named Jon, I'm stunned at my parents lack of imagination. Also while in New orleans, I saw this. Even I'm not trying that.

(and of course, congrats to the newlyweds)
posted by jonmc at 2:16 PM on August 30, 2015


Congrats restless_nomad and Alex Haist! So happy for you both! :)
posted by triggerfinger at 2:45 PM on August 30, 2015


Guys I'm making cumin-strawberry preserves right now and they are SO GOOD. Recipe Please!!?!

I actually just googled a recipe for strawberry preserves and added some cumin while it was cooking. It was for a Chopped-esque cooking challenge I did with some friends, I had to make a dish with salmon, cumin, brie, and strawberries. I did a baked brie in phyllo dough with hot-smoked salmon and cumin-strawberry preserves.

(Except I overcooked the preserves and wound up with a congealed mass with a consistency somewhere between gummy bears and caramel, so I just wound up buying strawberry jam and adding cumin :( )
posted by Itaxpica at 5:31 PM on August 30, 2015 [1 favorite]


@OP: lurk moar

@Jeremy & Alex: congrats!!!
posted by Jacqueline at 5:47 PM on August 30, 2015


After reading 50% of the comments. Will try to read the rest before midnight.

1. Congratulations! May your union be everything good.

2. Let us not assume the worst in people. Not everyone who posts a confusing question about a very pregnant woman has an axe to grind against queers. Not everyone who deletes such a question is trying to create or maintain a toxic, overly defensive echo chamber. My MetaTalk post was a reaction to the absolute worst interpretation of Jeremy's moderation, because I felt Jeremy's moderation was a reaction to the absolute worst interpretation of my AskMeFi question. I was not asking if we can lord very pregnant women over anyone, including someone who has chosen to not reproduce in any context. I was asking if we could expand the definition of default human being (now a white male in the U.S.) to also include very pregnant women, and explained via links and shorthand instead of literally, which would have taken forever. It seems one commenter, armed with the practice of giving people the benefit of doubt, fully understood. My childlike faith in the MeFi brain and heart trust seems to not have been completely unfounded.

3. Despite affection for Metafilter spanning years, I fear it has become uncomfortably reminiscent of Stormfront, except for liberal supremacy instead of white supremacy. I wish Metafilter would attract more attention to its content, which would probably remain fine even if political moderation relaxed a bit, by not alienating well meaning, open minded, civilized people for having different opinions.

4. My username is a literal translation of one of my given names, which means 'to know' and 'to be good'. Many of my problems stem from trying too literally to live up to it, so the irony of it sounding like no good is profound for me, which is why I chose it.
posted by knowgood at 8:16 PM on August 30, 2015 [1 favorite]


because I felt Jeremy's moderation was a reaction to the absolute worst interpretation of my AskMeFi question.

From what I can tell, your question was deleted because it broke the cardinal rule of AskMe: It has to be an actual, answerable question and not a springboard for discussion. This:
I was asking if we could expand the definition of default human being (now a white male in the U.S.) to also include very pregnant women,
is not a question that AskMe can answer.

It seems pretty clearcut to me and to every other person who has commented in this thread on this issue - no interpretation needed. You are making a lot of bad-faith assumptions about the actions of moderators and not trusting that they are telling you the explicit truth about why your question was deleted. Why is that?
posted by muddgirl at 8:25 PM on August 30, 2015 [21 favorites]


.....um, wow. It does seem you think of yourself as well meaning, open minded, and civilized but you come off as condescending and rude.

Also, your question was inappropriate for AskMe. Your additional context doesn't change that.
posted by Deoridhe at 8:27 PM on August 30, 2015 [12 favorites]


My MetaTalk post was a reaction to the absolute worst interpretation of Jeremy's moderation, because I felt Jeremy's moderation was a reaction to the absolute worst interpretation of my AskMeFi question.

Your interpretation of restless_nomad's deletion was deeply flawed based on your personal lack of familiarity with standard Ask Metafilter policy and practice. That latter bit isn't a big deal—even folks who have been fans of Metafilter for years sometimes have big blind spots about how something on the site works, especially if they're new to trying their hand at it—but springboarding from there into an over-the-top bit of jerkiness like this Metatalk post is just lousy behavior period.

Not assuming the worst of people in that case is us letting this through despite the ridiculous framing, and some mods and also some users making an effort to try and frame out what the problem with the question and this post was.

If your issue is you still don't understand that procedural issue, that's okay. We can talk about it more with you.

If your issue is that you literally cannot discriminate between the deletion of a poorly-formed question (by Ask standards; this is not a value judgement, it's an issue of local context and practice) and systematic state-level censorship, it's not something we're going to be able to help with and I think you're going to continue to be unhappy with your Metafilter experience.

Despite affection for Metafilter spanning years, I fear it has become uncomfortably reminiscent of Stormfront

This is a deeply ridiculous thing to say.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:28 PM on August 30, 2015 [59 favorites]


Let us not assume the worst in people.

Usually I just wait for them to demonstrate the worst, as you so amply have done here. Thank you for confirming my initial thoughts - it helps maintain my track record, of which I am justifiably proud.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:30 PM on August 30, 2015 [3 favorites]


(By "bad faith assumptions", I meant that you seem to be assuming that restless_nomad was acting in bad faith when she deleted your question, because she disagreed with the premise. I did not mean that you were making that assumption in bad faith)
posted by muddgirl at 8:31 PM on August 30, 2015


Dittoing Deoridhe: you apparently don't realize it, but heck YES you are coming across as condescending and rude. (Along with many other things, it's also pretty rude of you to repeatedly refer to restless_nomad as Jeremy, instead of her user name.)

Look, we get it: you are more knowing and good than we the foolish denizens of this site, and we're being willfully blind not to acknowledge your superiority. Or as several other folks have put it: Lurk Moar.
posted by easily confused at 8:36 PM on August 30, 2015 [1 favorite]


I was asking if we could expand the definition of default human being (now a white male in the U.S.) to also include very pregnant women,

See, here's the problem. You weren't literally asking if we could. The literal answer to if we could is "Yes, we could." We could also have oatmeal for breakfast every morning, pass a law requiring that all carrots be grown hydroponically, start keeping pet giraffes instead of dogs, start obeying biblical laws about mixing fibres, and change the meaning of lettuce to "of or related to motorcycles."

The literal answer to "could we" just about anything is yes. But if everyone had come in and said "yes." to your question, you wouldn't have felt like we had answered your question. Because you weren't really looking to literally ask "could we..." you were looking to say "let's have a conversation about...here are my thoughts, what are your thoughts?"

But AskMe is not a place for conversations. So, I didn't have some "worst" interpreation of your question. I don't think you meant anything rude, vulgar, morally suspect, or inadequately fitting with some ideology (In fact, I even memailed you my thoughts). I just think it wasn't a question for AskMe. I'm pretty sure that's the general consensus, not that your question didn't match our echo chamber ideology.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 8:37 PM on August 30, 2015 [11 favorites]


Metafilter: reminiscent of Stormfront, except for liberal supremacy instead of white supremacy.
posted by dogwalker at 8:40 PM on August 30, 2015 [11 favorites]


I fear it has become uncomfortably reminiscent of Stormfront,

*snort* You have not the slightest fucking idea what you're talking about.

I wish Metafilter would attract more attention to its content, which would probably remain fine even if political moderation relaxed a bit, by not alienating well meaning, open minded, civilized people for having different opinions.

Dude. Seriously. Your question got deleted because it was borderline-comprehensible chatfilter. Right here is a bit of the FAQ that pretty clearly explains why questions like yours get deleted. Your question got the axe because it was wildly outside even the intentionally-flexible parameters of appropriate Ask questions. You clearly don't grasp how AskMe works, either from reading previous questions or the FAQ - which is not a crime in and of itself or anything, but to claim that the only possible reason that your question got deleted is because the mods are carrying out a political agenda is some ridiculous bullcrap.

You made a mistake because you didn't know what you were doing. That's fine. Everyone makes mistakes. Admit that you made a mistake (even if it's just to yourself), think about learning how to do better next time, and get down off the cross. We could use the wood.
posted by soundguy99 at 8:51 PM on August 30, 2015 [9 favorites]


3. Despite affection for Metafilter spanning years, I fear it has become uncomfortably reminiscent of Stormfront, except for liberal supremacy instead of white supremacy. I wish Metafilter would attract more attention to its content, which would probably remain fine even if political moderation relaxed a bit, by not alienating well meaning, open minded, civilized people for having different opinions.

THis is insane and you should be deported for saying it.

There, conservative enough?
posted by GuyZero at 8:57 PM on August 30, 2015 [8 favorites]


If they could breed a three foot tall giraffe, I would want one.
posted by y2karl at 8:59 PM on August 30, 2015 [14 favorites]


So here's the thing, knowgood: You were attacked pretty strongly by people in this thread, and most anyone would react defensively to that level of attack. And okay, maybe there's a style mis-match that could be worked out over some period of time. But there's one thing in your original post that was criticized, and you've made no response to those criticisms:
... just got deleted by apparently a female moderator who calls herself Jeremy. Seriously?
I've thought about that, and what you were doing was trying to ridicule someone's gender identity instead of arguing against their actions or statements. And with no mention of or apology for that, as far as I can tell, you still don't see anything wrong with it. You don't belong on MetaFilter.

[Oh, and "Stormfront"? You're a troll.]
posted by benito.strauss at 9:00 PM on August 30, 2015 [50 favorites]


> I felt Jeremy's moderation was a reaction to the absolute worst interpretation of my AskMeFi question

The deletion reason:

"Sorry, this isn't a question as such."

Your reaction is so over-the-top that I don't even know what to think, or what it is you're reading. restless_nomad did not call you names, question your humanity, or say anything at all about the premise of your question.

So you came here and sneered about her name, and compare the site to one of the most notorious hate sites on the internets.

I think you will not be happy here. That is your right - to stay here and be unhappy - but playing the martyr is already pretty stale.
posted by rtha at 9:01 PM on August 30, 2015 [40 favorites]


At the risk of being accused of taking part in a pile-on, I have to respond to this:

My MetaTalk post was a reaction to the absolute worst interpretation of Jeremy's moderation, because I felt Jeremy's moderation was a reaction to the absolute worst interpretation of my AskMeFi question.

It seems one commenter, armed with the practice of giving people the benefit of doubt, fully understood. My childlike faith in the MeFi brain and heart trust seems to not have been completely unfounded.

Despite affection for Metafilter spanning years, I fear it has become uncomfortably reminiscent of Stormfront, except for liberal supremacy instead of white supremacy.

My username is a literal translation of one of my given names, which means 'to know' and 'to be good'. Many of my problems stem from trying too literally to live up to it, so the irony of it sounding like no good is profound for me, which is why I chose it.


So you think the deletion of your precious "question", even after the reason behind it has been spelled out and spoonfed to you in this thread, was due to malice, thereby giving you the right to vomit up this MeTa that you pretty much admit was deliberately, intentionally mean-spirited, and Metafilter is the liberal Stormfront - and poor, sweet, childlike you is just trying to be a good person in this crazy, mixed up world?

Wow, get over yourself. Funny how everyone else has to play nice and give the benefit of the doubt but you. This whole thing could have blown over with "my bad, y'all, I'll try to ask a concrete, answerable question as per the guidelines from now on, no hard feelings", but instead you decided to double down. Don't hurt yourself with that shovel, you misunderstood big-hearted waif.

Think I'll watch some videos of kittens for a while. Fuck.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 9:09 PM on August 30, 2015 [22 favorites]


cortex, upthread when you said:

Or maybe they're someone who can tamp down some instincts or habits acquired elsewhere and get along here just fine. That's up to them and comes down to whether and how they choose to try participating following this whole ridiculous thing. But that's up to them, and we'll see what happens, and I'm up for being simultaneously optimistic that they can make it work and realistic about the possibility that they won't and we'll have to call it. We'll get there when we get there.

Are we there yet?

knowgood has removed any doubt about their ability to appropriately participate here. This was bad faith, bullshit stunt posting on their part.
posted by MoonOrb at 9:14 PM on August 30, 2015 [5 favorites]


This topic as old as hell and not worth our time, but I'll chime in anyway.

First, in the poster's defense, restless_nomad could've been a little more clear. Just saying "Sorry, this isn't a question as such" doesn't seem like a great way to let a newer AskMe user know how that portion of the site works. I'd be a little confused too if I were new or didn't really understand the guidelines.

Why not pad it out just a tad more? "Sorry, but this is a very open-ended chat question, not something where users can offer a clear solution. It doesn't fit AskMe guidelines. Please contact us if you're confused. Thanks!"

Maybe that's a little long-winded, but you get what I mean. Explain a little more. Let's be a little more newbie-friendly.

Second, in the site's defense and restless_nomad's defense, knowgood... you seem very confused, and your reading comprehension seems poor.

Your question was deleted because it was extremely confusing. I really did not understand what you meant. Neither did many others. Per site guidelines, AskMe is also designed to be a place where users can ask questions that people can offer solutions to, whether that solution be advice or a concrete correct answer as to how to handle something. Generally, AskMe is for questions that are essentially "can you give me advice about how I should handle X" or "can you help me to solve X problem."

It's not designed to be a place for open-ended philosophical chat. Unfortunately, your question was confusing and open-ended, and not something where users could provide a clear answer. For those reasons, your question was chopped.

Furthermore, your comments are silly and ignorant. Though I like to think I'm a pretty liberal person, I find this site to be a bit much sometimes. But calling this site the equivalent of Stormfront is laughable. What a crude and childish metaphor. What next? Will you invoke Nazis? Stalin? Pol Pot?

And referring to restless_nomad repeatedly by her chosen name is rude and socially inept. It smacks of an attempt to mock her chosen name. Actually I'm certain it's an attempt to mock her given some of the comments you've made.

It sounds like Metafilter is not the right site for you. Perhaps you should consider spending your time elsewhere online.

And as a friendly piece of advice, you'd do well to consider the old adage that if you run into a jerk every now and again... they must be jerks, I guess. But if you're surrounded by jerks who disagree with you, though... then maybe you're the one with the problem.
posted by Old Man McKay at 9:19 PM on August 30, 2015 [5 favorites]


I have never seen a more perfect example of fractal wrongness than your supposed miscomprehension of this site. But you really do know what MeFi's about, don't you? You couldn't possibly have generated this MeTa if you really had an "affection for Metafilter spanning years." You're trolling, and I'm kind of annoyed that I'm feeding you, but I enjoy sharing that GIF.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:22 PM on August 30, 2015 [5 favorites]


Let us not assume the worst in people.

This is something that you need to tell yourself, since it’s exactly what you did.

I was not asking if we can lord very pregnant women over anyone, including someone who has chosen to not reproduce in any context. I was asking if we could expand the definition of default human being (now a white male in the U.S.) to also include very pregnant women, and explained via links and shorthand instead of literally, which would have taken forever.

I sympathize with what you wanted to do. But, as written, it really wasn't either a) a clearly stated question , or b) a solvable question. The best option in this scenario is to talk to the mods about how to make the question work. I don't doubt your good faith, or your self-evident passion for your idea. But comparing MetaFilter to Stormfront is really not a measured response to that deletion, and if you can't enhance your calm a bit and take a step back in the future, you’re going to be unhappy.

Good luck! in your future posts, and be sure to ask for advice about them if you’re not sure how they’ll go.
posted by Going To Maine at 9:26 PM on August 30, 2015 [3 favorites]


Wow. Stormfront. Wow.

Mazal tov restless _ nomad and Alex Haist! May you live together as wife and wife and best friends for life.
posted by Sophie1 at 9:30 PM on August 30, 2015 [4 favorites]


Hi, OP. If you're reading down this far (and I hope you are), I would like to welcome you to MetaFilter. For real.

This isn't Stormfront. There's no agenda. And the mods aren't out to get anyone. I've been here ten years now & I get comments deleted every now and then. I can honestly say it's usually for the best: The mods are without exception incredibly patient and decent people who genuinely want community members of all walks of life to participate and share ideas. They've always been helpful and responsive to my questions.

Michele in California's excellent comment above is worth re-reading and taking to heart. She contributes a unique voice and perspective that's really valuable here.

Your AskMe question didn't fit the guidelines simply because because it's impossible to answer. In a word, the question needs to anticipate answers that are actionable:

What can I do with all this eggplant? (Action: Here are delicious recipes to make!)
Should I break up with my partner? (Action: DTMFA! )
What books can I read about the Appalachian Trail? (Action: Read Bill Bryson's A Walk in the Woods!)

So hang out and lurk for a bit. See if this place is a good fit for you. Maybe someday craft something into a post for the Blue. If you do, lots of site members are willing to bounce ideas with newer members when you're putting ideas together, especially with First Post September coming up. Good luck. :)
posted by mochapickle at 10:22 PM on August 30, 2015 [10 favorites]


I don't think there's such a thing as being 'very pregnant', no matter how often you repeat that phrase. One is pregnant, or one is not.
posted by Too-Ticky at 10:54 PM on August 30, 2015 [4 favorites]


2. Let us not assume the worst in people.

You did so in drafting this post, by assuming that moderators were going out of their way to be unfair to you: "My MetaTalk post was a reaction to the absolute worst interpretation of Jeremy's moderation, because I felt Jeremy's moderation was a reaction to the absolute worst interpretation of my AskMeFi question."

You assumed the worst. In contrast, r_n was enforcing the clear and unambiguous rules of AskMe. You claim to have been reading Metafilter for years, so it's not really unreasonable to expect you to know how AskMe works. But, even if you didn't, there's a lot of guidance directly linked from the question form.

Your post on AskMe wasn't a question. r_n said as much in the deletion reason, and did so politely. You weren't looking for an answer, you were looking for a discussion. Which isn't what AskMe is for.

You also explicitly told the moderators to 'fuck their echo chambers' - this is a poor way to raise a grievance with the mods, and rather puts the lie to your claim that you are "not disrespectful unless someone else is, and even then I try not to".

The mods were extremely generous to let this through the queue, and have been very patient with you even in the face of your effectively comparing them to neo-Nazis.

I was not asking if we can lord very pregnant women over anyone, including someone who has chosen to not reproduce in any context. I was asking if we could expand the definition of default human being (now a white male in the U.S.) to also include very pregnant women, and explained via links and shorthand instead of literally, which would have taken forever. It seems one commenter, armed with the practice of giving people the benefit of doubt, fully understood. My childlike faith in the MeFi brain and heart trust seems to not have been completely unfounded.

If only 1 out of 10000 active users could understand your meaning, you have failed to convey your meaning effectively.3. Despite affection for Metafilter spanning years, I fear it has become uncomfortably reminiscent of Stormfront, except for liberal supremacy instead of white supremacy.

If you truly believe this, you are fool. If you don't, you are a troll. Either way, perhaps you should reconsider what you were trying to achieve by making this asinine statement.

I wish Metafilter would attract more attention to its content, which would probably remain fine even if political moderation relaxed a bit, by not alienating well meaning, open minded, civilized people for having different opinions.

This didn't happen. You didn't ask an answerable question. That is all.

This entire basis of this MeTa is nonsensical.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 11:19 PM on August 30, 2015 [4 favorites]


Oh, and by the by, restless _ nomad and Alex Haist - congrats to you both! May the very heavens burst and shower you with joy. And puppies. And candy.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 11:23 PM on August 30, 2015 [2 favorites]


Congratulations restless_nomad and Akex Haist! Another MetaFilter success story!

And referring to restless_nomad repeatedly by her chosen name is rude and socially inept. It smacks of an attempt to mock her chosen name.

It's also a clear violation of the guidelines:
User profile pages on MetaFilter are not indexed by Google. This means if someone's profile says that they live in a certain city or gives their real name, that information is not considered "public" on the site. Bringing a user's personal details into an unrelated thread to hector or harass them (especially details from other websites that they participate in) is generally considered not okay.
(I was really taken aback when I saw it. Very poor form.)
posted by Room 641-A at 11:49 PM on August 30, 2015 [25 favorites]


I don't think there's such a thing as being 'very pregnant', no matter how often you repeat that phrase. One is pregnant, or one is not.

I would assume that translates to visibly pregnant, in or near the third trimester, as the attempt is to take something experienced by a subset of the population (and something with weird and dehumanizing mythologizing around it) and turn it into a universal symbol of containing something that is of us but not at the same time. Visibility would be a necessity in order to transform an experience like this into a symbol. The way in which this contributes to the weird deification/objectification of pregnant people I leave as an exercise for the reader.
posted by Deoridhe at 1:14 AM on August 31, 2015 [3 favorites]


'Visibly pregnant' makes sense, yes. 'Very pregnant' does not.
I'm mainly weirded out by the way that the OP never seems to use the word 'pregnant' without the not-really-appliccable modifier 'very'.

Visibility would be a necessity in order to transform an experience like this into a symbol.
Of course. And for that reason, it doesn't even need to be said. 'Pregnant' will do just fine.
posted by Too-Ticky at 1:22 AM on August 31, 2015 [2 favorites]


Ah, true... it's a curious affectation. I guess I interpreted it more as mimicry of ivory tower language than anything else, and ended up over-explaining.
posted by Deoridhe at 1:27 AM on August 31, 2015 [1 favorite]


People are up in arms about the stormfront comparison, but I don't really get why?
posted by Pyrogenesis at 2:17 AM on August 31, 2015 [7 favorites]


I'm in agreement with folks that calling restless_nomad by her real name is quite aggressive, and even moreso when knowgood is so cagey about their own name. Big red flag there.

Congrats to r_n and Alex Haist!
posted by frecklefaerie at 4:16 AM on August 31, 2015


knowgood, you're having a tantrum. Disproportionate response to a "no"? Check. Mocking someone? Check. Swearing? Check. "It's not my fault, and you're MEAN"? Check. The claim that you're just trying to do something good and you are deeply misunderstood? Check. Inflammatory comparisons? Oh yeah, that too. And then instead of apologizing, you yelled louder.

You made a mistake. Instead of thinking about that and resubmitting a reworked question, or posting in Projects, you threw a tantrum in MeTa. You are now getting feedback on your behavior rather than your idea.

You're in a hole. Stop digging.
posted by MonkeyToes at 5:17 AM on August 31, 2015 [15 favorites]


They oughta call it Godlosing.
posted by box at 5:40 AM on August 31, 2015 [5 favorites]


Despite affection for Metafilter spanning years, I fear it has become uncomfortably reminiscent of Stormfront

Thanks for this, I needed a good laugh to start the week.
posted by grouse at 5:48 AM on August 31, 2015 [7 favorites]


Hmph. Very out of line and visibly out of line, on the other hand, are pretty much out of line both of them. And I still can't make head or tail of the whole "pregnant" thing. Being pregnant, or not, is no more a 'thing' than being human. There's "default" for you. Bah.

And then this: "Affection of Metafilter spanning years" and you've never heard of the really hot items of the FAQ? Never seen a meta discussion about moderation before? Learnbetter
posted by Namlit at 5:56 AM on August 31, 2015 [2 favorites]


You'd think someone who's been here for years would also know by now how transparent accusations of "political moderation" and "stifling disparate voices" are, not least of all in response to having a chatfilter question deleted. It does make me wonder, though: what was the "politics" behind the question? I'm guessing they weren't "liberal", considering the hyperbolic remarks so far. Or was that just some unrelated gripe left over from whatever their old account used to be? itisamystery.jpg
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 6:24 AM on August 31, 2015 [2 favorites]


The "good faith" interpretation of your question is that you were just really high while writing it. It makes completely no sense, and I don't mean because of a lack of word-smithing. I mean on a basic, fundamental level. I get what you're trying to convey, and it's just nonsense. For fuck's sake, after hundreds of people have told you this, you'd think it might be something you could take under advisement.

Instead, you've decided that the whole site is against you sharing your Very Important Thought, because of some liberal agenda and have further demonstrated poor judgement in your actions and responses in this thread. This is factually wrong, amazingly egocentric, and also triggers a whole host of associations between your behaviour and that of self-described MRA's and their associates. You may also want to take this under advisement, since it puts you in some extremely bad company. You can either recognize that you don't want to be in such company and consciously work on improving yourself by listening and learning, or, you can find another online "community" to shoot the shit wrt "are preggers humans?"
posted by odinsdream at 6:26 AM on August 31, 2015 [4 favorites]


I believe I understood the actual intent of the question -- it's not, "Are pregnant women human?" but, "Would the general public accept a graphic of a pregnant woman to indicate 'people,' like on a pedestrian-crossing sign or Facebook avatar?"; it's a question about marked and unmarked categories -- and I still believe it was a bad question for AskMetafilter because it broke the chatfilter guideline.

It was also so poorly phrased that it looked like it was asking "Are pregnant women human?", which meant it was going to attract a lot of people upset by that implication, even if the user didn't intend it (and I really don't think they did, unless the whole thing is a troll).

Even with a completely good-faith reading, the question was not a good question for AskMe.
posted by jaguar at 7:16 AM on August 31, 2015 [16 favorites]


I should add: I do believe this MeTa is basically trolling. I'm undecided about whether the original AskMe question was.
posted by jaguar at 7:17 AM on August 31, 2015 [1 favorite]


Very febrile infant. New universal symbol for human being?

Are we not all feverish, if not with diseases, with ideas and memes with which to brighten the world? After reading about default human being, I wondered. On top of regular infant, can we accept very febrile infant as default humans?
posted by Plutor at 7:18 AM on August 31, 2015 [8 favorites]


+1 trolling
A++ would be unnecessarily outraged again
posted by salvia at 7:22 AM on August 31, 2015 [2 favorites]


"I don't have a problem with the concept of privelege, I just think the wrong group has priveleges"
posted by anazgnos at 7:23 AM on August 31, 2015 [1 favorite]


Keeping up the stormfront comparison, let us now pay homage to MeFi's own FOURTEEN WORD CREDO: "We can overthink a plate of beans. Also, don't self-link on the blue."
posted by rmd1023 at 7:23 AM on August 31, 2015 [5 favorites]


For the record, I don't mind people using my first name, but everyone above is correct - that is Not Done here and should be diligently avoided. I'm officially on record as Jeremy Preacher in the FAQ, but users aren't, and not all the mods use their names either.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 7:58 AM on August 31, 2015 [13 favorites]


> It's also a clear violation of the guidelines: "... Bringing a user's personal details into an unrelated thread to hector or harass them ..."

This. It's your call (as always!), mods, but this is something I'd really like to see a clear bright line on. knowgood's repeated use of r_n's name rather than handle is pure harassment; it's disrespectful, it smacks of intimidation tactics, and there is absolutely no reason for it other than to provoke. We as a community have some pretty strong norms surrounding this stuff, and the fact that it's directed at someone who by necessity has a more public face than the average user doesn't make it any more acceptable.
posted by Westringia F. at 8:04 AM on August 31, 2015 [7 favorites]


DOH. Now I see your comment, r_n! The above was written before, not as an argumentative reply! Now I feel like an ass :P
posted by Westringia F. at 8:05 AM on August 31, 2015 [1 favorite]


Also (& more importantly),
♡♥♡♥♡♥♡♥♡ CONGRATULATIONS! ♡♥♡♥♡♥♡♥♡
posted by Westringia F. at 8:13 AM on August 31, 2015 [5 favorites]


Ummmm these beans are good.
Happy Marriage!
posted by Oyéah at 8:43 AM on August 31, 2015


Congratulations, r_n and Alex Haist! Late to the thread, but I'm glad I saved it for an otherwise-boring Monday!
posted by introp at 8:55 AM on August 31, 2015


RN, have you considered having people throw beans at the wedding? Rice just doesn't seem right for two Mefites. Best to you both.
posted by Mr. Yuck at 9:10 AM on August 31, 2015 [10 favorites]


HMMMM! Heart-shaped beans! The best kind!
posted by Namlit at 9:16 AM on August 31, 2015 [3 favorites]


If beans are thrown, it's important to decide which beans. Dried pinto beans would probably be easier to clean, but fisfulls of Heinz baked beans in tomato sauce would be so much more fun.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 9:42 AM on August 31, 2015 [3 favorites]


how about STORMFRONT-SHAPED BEANS SINCE THAT'S BASICALLY WHAT THE SITE NOW
posted by Greg Nog at 9:45 AM on August 31, 2015 [29 favorites]


Fun fact: Stormfront-shaped beans look like the Idaho panhandle.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 9:52 AM on August 31, 2015 [1 favorite]


There were a lot of Nazis named Heinz and I don't think this is a coincidence.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 9:53 AM on August 31, 2015 [5 favorites]


Not all the mods use their names either

For example, cortex hates it to be known that his username's short for Caldmore-Ouzts-Ratlinghope Te the 10th.

Congratulations restless_nomad and Alex Haist. Many happy years of asking when the other's expecting an ask and guessing when the other's expecting a guess.
posted by ambrosen at 9:53 AM on August 31, 2015 [2 favorites]


There were a lot of Nazis named Heinz and I don't think this is a coincidence.

Somewhere in America, Karl Rove has just gotten wood and doesn't know why.
posted by selfnoise at 10:06 AM on August 31, 2015 [5 favorites]


Guess somebody tried to ask Stormfront if pregnant women were white.
posted by klangklangston at 10:21 AM on August 31, 2015


Sigh.


I would be all for some sort of policy change where metas of this sort are published so asshole silenced all my life types can't accuse the mods of silencing them in meta as well and after, say, the first ten people chime in to call them assholes, we close the thread with a note saying "This is not productive. Please try to reframe your meta and try again."

And I mean that is off the cuff fantasizing and probably the worst suggestion ever. I could come up with a few other more genuine attempts to suggest a policy change, but they boil down to using my meta as the gold standard and I have a history of being accused of making things about me, which I not only do not intentionally do, I also work hard to avoid it. But I do not know of anyone else who had this kind of problem fitting in at first, who was frustrated as hell over a high level of deletions and successfully used meta to help resolve their personal issue (instead of the usual: using meta to try to put out the fire with gasoline). My understanding is that a lot of folks who start this way end up banned or BNDd.

I have always loathed the metas where people post to bitch about their own deletions, even in cases where I had enormous sympathy for the OP who clearly had a history of being ganged up on, etc. I don't believe that is a productive use of meta. Meta is not supposed to be about one individual and their oversized ego. It is supposed to be where we hash out policy and engage in other community building activities, which can focus on one or a few members but not at the expense of the rest of the community. Yes, sometimes there is bias happening. Calling attention to being the victim of it and demanding special treatment for just you is not a fix for that. I have advocated for policy changes that helped me. I have seen progress in areas that I advocated for. I didn't do it just to improve my situation. I did it because I was clear it was something hurting everyone, not just me. I would have advocated for it even if I had not been one of the clear victims of certain dynamics.

Knowgood opened a meta about her personal issue, did not do us the courtesy of sticking around to participate, came back and kinda halfassed the reading of the replies part before spouting off again and keeps publicly posting r-ns actual name (I cannot find the lower dash on my tablet, sorry). So, you know, can't do us the courtesy of reading what we wrote before trying to push her agenda again. The most charitable read I can give of that is that she has some serious deficits in the social skills department.

These metas never get the OP the ass kissing public apology from the mods they seem to desire or the policy change to accommodate their personal needs/agenda/whatever and the OP never deals well with the incredibly easy to predict pile on of members telling them to go fuck themselves. It just winds up being salt in the wounds and a breeding ground for grudgery on both sides. I can recall cases where things got undeleted after a meta about them. This particular kind of meta does not seem to lead to that. It seems to be nothing but downside.

I don't know a solution and I am possibly rambling on semi coherently as I have been short of sleep for several days. But this is hardly the first time I have thought that we need to do something differently wrt this type of issue where a member is getting deletions, is frustrated about it and starting some public shitshow over it sounds like a good idea to them. I don't know what that is, but these metas seem to be all downside. (I apologize to the folks who like to pull up a chair, roast marshmallows over the bonfire and enjoy the free shitshow -- I never have been much fun).
posted by Michele in California at 10:27 AM on August 31, 2015 [4 favorites]


Come to think of it, "restless_nomad" is kind of a giveaway. What are you restless about, huh, if not for some drang nach osten?
posted by Pyrogenesis at 10:29 AM on August 31, 2015 [2 favorites]


The most charitable read I can give of that is that she has some serious deficits in the social skills department.

Look, if we want something other than a gang beating, knowgood, I agree with you that there is a narrow POV presented in the majority of MeFi posts & comments. It would be good to have a wider variety of opinions around here and I feel that sometimes - not always by any means - legitimate differences of opinion are deleted as derails or for being fighty. Which maybe they are.

That said, whatever things we agree on, those points are being buried under a lot of other things that wierd points to make and unlikely to change.
posted by GuyZero at 10:36 AM on August 31, 2015 [2 favorites]


I don't get all the Storm Front hate. Sure, 'We Didn't Start the Fire' is a bit trash, but 'The Downeaster Alexa' is beautiful and more than makes up for it.

And I really, really, really think jelly beans are what need to be thrown at this wedding.

Grats!
posted by quinndexter at 10:39 AM on August 31, 2015 [7 favorites]


Wait. It goes deeper than that. "goodnewsfortheinsane" is about eugenics, isn't it? And "cortex" is a reference to phrenology? I'm not sure how LobsterMitten fits into it, but the modified Schlieffen plan did have the double pincher principle, though that was somewhat earlier...
posted by Pyrogenesis at 10:39 AM on August 31, 2015 [2 favorites]


Man it really feels like I'm hitting on something major here. Why are you all ignoring me? Look there's plenty of evidence for those who want to see it. If anything happens to me please contact the autho
posted by Pyrogenesis at 10:45 AM on August 31, 2015 [5 favorites]


There is no cabal.
posted by Pyrogenesis at 10:45 AM on August 31, 2015 [3 favorites]


Knowgood opened a meta about her personal issue, did not do us the courtesy of sticking around to participate

Again, posts to MetaTalk go into a queue and are not posted immediately. As far as I know, ordinary users are not usually given advance warning of when their MetaTalk posts go live. It is unreasonable to expect that they should check the site continuously in case their MeTa may have been posted.
posted by grouse at 10:57 AM on August 31, 2015 [3 favorites]


These metas never get the OP the ass kissing public apology from the mods they seem to desire

The mods desire? Phooey. That the rampaging hordes of mefites desire, more like. (Well, aside from those hoping for a flameout.) As a general rule, I assume that the mods allow metas like this because they want to…
  1. …keep MetaFilter’s processes transparent
  2. …get a sense of where the community is on the issue; if there’s a big gap, something should change.
  3. …give the user what she wants. Knowgood wanted feedback, and she’s getting it by the truckload.

posted by Going To Maine at 10:57 AM on August 31, 2015


You have misread my incoherent ramblings. I meant the OP seems to desire an ass kissing public apology. I said nothing about what mods want.
posted by Michele in California at 11:00 AM on August 31, 2015 [9 favorites]


I think the salvageable policy discussion--or at least opportunity for further reflection--here is for the two-steps-forward, one-pount-three-three-three-repeating steps back process of recalibrating how much tolerance and nth-chancing of ridiculously obvious problem actors they engage in, and maybe reflect that they could recalibrate recalibration to just one step back because rational numbers are at least easier to set a rhythm to.

The whole business with "apparently a feeeemale hoo-man named Jeremy, seriously, amirite?!" is particularly telling if you put it into the context of some of the more worthwhile policy talk and the necessity of --my inner editor is making a huge frowny face at me right now at redundancy wording, but--recalibration of administrative tolerances around bad behaviors that big meta threads about the trampstamp and other recent boyzone threads etc led to. Maybe I'm mesplaining this, but it seems to me that's yet another choice example of bad gender-aggressive behavior that's simply being overlooked in the unwarranted benefit-of-the-doubt sense.
posted by Drastic at 11:03 AM on August 31, 2015 [4 favorites]


I would absolutely be fine with saying "Sorry, please try again. Your doxxing of people in your meta is an egregious violation of the rules. If you can send us one that doesn't violate this bright line policy, we will be happy to post it"

I think that would be a really good place to start. This is not the first meta that attempted to dox someone and doxxing is just shitty behavior in a "ignorance of the law is no defense" kind of way.
posted by Michele in California at 11:11 AM on August 31, 2015 [4 favorites]


I'm with Drastic here. Especially the use of the word female is just grating. Although I guess my perception is colored by it's connotations in Estonian, my native tongue, in which calling a woman "female" is on the level of calling them whore or bitch or cunt - time to get into a fight, that is -, and this probably taints my understanding of the English word. But really. Don't call actual people "females". Because if you do, I will start calling you "redditor". I'm sorry it's harsh but that's the way it'll have to be.
posted by Pyrogenesis at 11:23 AM on August 31, 2015 [8 favorites]


Using a moderator's first name when they publicly display it on their profile page and in the site FAQ is not "doxing". I do feel like using someone's first name when it is not part of their username is aggressive (and especially so in this context), but doxing it ain't.
posted by grouse at 11:25 AM on August 31, 2015 [4 favorites]


In a way, it is. The profiles are not publicly visible, which means: visible to non-members; postings and comments however are.

Okay, the FAQ is different.
posted by Too-Ticky at 11:27 AM on August 31, 2015 [1 favorite]


Yeah it's not doxxing so much as "a GIRL named JEREMY???!!?!?!" which is crass, childish and - given what knowgood posted in their first and only comment in this thread - deliberately intended to be unfair and shitty.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 11:28 AM on August 31, 2015 [20 favorites]


You have misread my incoherent ramblings. I meant the OP seems to desire an ass kissing public apology. I said nothing about what mods want.

Incoherent nothing - your ramblings were just fine. My bad.
posted by Going To Maine at 11:28 AM on August 31, 2015 [2 favorites]


It's kind of like when you ostentatiously call someone one Mister in a non-formal environment. You're obliquely implying the other person is an asshole.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:29 AM on August 31, 2015


how about STORMFRONT-SHAPED BEANS SINCE THAT'S BASICALLY WHAT THE SITE NOW

That's because of the beanplate putsch.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 11:30 AM on August 31, 2015 [2 favorites]


The profiles are not publicly visible, which means: visible to non-members

restless_nomad's full name is publicly visible to non-members. Try viewing her profile page in a private or incognito window or logging out.
posted by grouse at 11:31 AM on August 31, 2015


The IRL name thing going on in this thread is without a doubt in the "mom said I can't touch you so I'm not touching you I'm not touching you I'm not touching you" school of rhetoric/participation and should be treated as such.
posted by griphus at 11:34 AM on August 31, 2015 [8 favorites]


Profile pages mostly publicly visible - what they are not is *indexed by Google* (at least to the best of our admittedly inadequate means of ensuring that.) But threads are, so posting info from the former to the latter potentially makes stuff googleable that people would prefer it not be. Calling it "doxxing" wildly inflates the undiscoverability of trivially-discoverable information, but we ask people not do it as a matter of good site etiquette. And we will enforce that if necessary.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 11:35 AM on August 31, 2015 [13 favorites]


Grouse, you're right and I was wrong. restless_nomad, thanks for explaining!
posted by Too-Ticky at 11:37 AM on August 31, 2015


MetaFilter: My perception is colored by its connotations in Estonian.
posted by benito.strauss at 11:48 AM on August 31, 2015 [10 favorites]


Wait... profiles used to be visible--did it change? I know because all the time I was lurking desperate to comment but refusing to join because I knew I would spend all day every day dicking around not doing chores exactly as I am doing this exact second, I'd check profiles hoping somebody'd post an e-mail address or a website so i could sneak in a comment that way. Okay, right, what grouse said is what I thought.

Going To Maine, the antecedent of "they" was ambiguous; it was a natural misread.

knowgood, would you please not gitcherseff banned before anybody even knows who you even are, will you please? Your latest update hasn't cleared it up much. Are you Lancelotting for childed/soon-to-be-childed cis women and considering them to be marginalized when trans and genderfluidity prove no bar to ascent of various verticals of human endeavor? That's my working theory, but I am not at all confident in it because there's not enough to go on. I don't feel like you're necessarily a troll; moreso like you're habitually defaulting to a reddit-style roar where it's neither necessary nor expected. And that you're feeling marginalized, but why? You felt attacked before this particular pile-on; like the ask you wrote, even had it been understood and even had there not been the chatfilter rule, would have been deleted because it was politically a bad fit. What were the politics you thought were discriminated against? It remains obscure.

(Or did you really just want to post a jpg of that picture you drew?)
posted by Don Pepino at 12:02 PM on August 31, 2015 [2 favorites]


MetaFilter: My perception is colored by its connotations in Estonian.

Aww I think it's my first time.
posted by Pyrogenesis at 12:16 PM on August 31, 2015 [9 favorites]

Despite affection for Metafilter spanning years, I fear it has become uncomfortably reminiscent of Stormfront
This is a deeply ridiculous thing to say.

Cortex. Please. If everything is deeply ridiculous, then nothing is deeply ridiculous.
posted by Mayor West at 12:21 PM on August 31, 2015 [16 favorites]


the ass kissing public apology from the mods they seem to desire

And it's pretty obvious which mod the OP desires: she's done everything short of dipping r_n's pigtails in the inkwell.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 12:25 PM on August 31, 2015 [1 favorite]


If everything is deeply ridiculous, then nothing is deeply ridiculous.

Trump 2016: Because if everything is deeply ridiculous, then nothing is deeply ridiculous.
posted by duffell at 12:26 PM on August 31, 2015 [4 favorites]


Running out of favorites here. Best wishes and best wishes to the happy couple! And to everyone else: Friendship is magic, yo.
posted by whuppy at 12:31 PM on August 31, 2015 [1 favorite]


I am going to say something positive: I appreciate the moderation of front page posts.
posted by DrAmerica at 12:34 PM on August 31, 2015


I didn't intend to post that doxxing comment. I wrote it, copied it and pasted it to my email to save for later on the theory that I am short of sleep and maybe it is time to shut up. I was on a tablet and accidentally posted it and when I realized I posted it, I considered saying "Oh shit, I didn't mean to post that" and then decided to quit while I was behind rather than muck up the thread further.

So, I apologize for that.

I don't think the essence of my point is wrong, but will spare us all any attempts to clarify, defend, blah blah blah at this point in time and will let more coherent people have the floor now.

Will go back to drooling on myself and refreshing my profile to see if I have been faved, like I usually do on days like today.
posted by Michele in California at 12:38 PM on August 31, 2015 [9 favorites]


Trump 2016: Because if everything is deeply ridiculous, then nothing is deeply ridiculous.

Trump 2016: KEEP POLITICS WEIRD
posted by Going To Maine at 12:41 PM on August 31, 2015 [1 favorite]


I'd also like to say something positive: I'm positive that "liberal Stormfront" is weaksauce instigation. What about "liberal North Korea" or "a liberal version of Hitler if he was a community weblog and not an Austrian"? Go for the gold or don't go at all, I say.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 12:46 PM on August 31, 2015 [5 favorites]


i once almost murdered an intruder with a frozen meatloaf

Best practices is a frozen monitor lizard.
posted by phearlez at 12:57 PM on August 31, 2015 [1 favorite]


This thread, like so many, reminds me that I LOVE the metafilter moderation. When I'm upset and not thinking straight I will ask myself how the mods would respond, and I always find myself on a higher road.

So many best wishes for Jeremy and Alex - may your boringly thoughtful relationship continue to bring you, your families, and your communities much joy! \o/ \o/ \o/
posted by ldthomps at 12:59 PM on August 31, 2015 [6 favorites]


WAIT! I can demand personal attention?

Oh, sorry, that's right, I have received some personal attention on a couple of occasions, because the Mods are nice, and I asked nicely, I think I was nice...

Oh well, back to my plate of beans with weaksauce. Gosh I love my weaksauce!
posted by Oyéah at 1:23 PM on August 31, 2015


I'm sorry, but

Metafilter: a community weblog and not an Austrian
posted by meese at 2:00 PM on August 31, 2015 [3 favorites]


knowgood: "Despite affection for Metafilter spanning years, I fear it has become uncomfortably reminiscent of Stormfront, except for liberal supremacy instead of white supremacy."

It's been a while since I've been to Stormfront. I'm not going to visit it from work but last I checked there were significant differences between it and Metafilter. Those differences being akin to oil and water, light and dark, up and down and most especially good and evil.

I've been reading Metafilter for about 15 years. This is the silliest thing I have ever read here. Sillier than "silenced all my life". Sillier than "hard- and soft-core taters". Sillier than the inability of grocery staff to identify portobello mushrooms. Even sillier than the guy who threatened to cut his hand off in a flame-out.

A well-crafted troll sucks in as many people as possible while still maintaining plausible deniability. You were doing well with this, but then you got greedy.
posted by double block and bleed at 2:13 PM on August 31, 2015 [15 favorites]


I've been reading Metafilter for about 15 years. This is the silliest thing I have ever read here. Sillier than "silenced all my life". Sillier than "hard- and soft-core taters". Sillier than the inability of grocery staff to identify portobello mushrooms. Even sillier than the guy who threatened to cut his hand off in a flame-out.

Sillier than "I regularly sport pinstripes and a fedora, and I'm informed that pictures of me prompt girly coos"?

OK maybe it is sillier than that.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 2:20 PM on August 31, 2015 [5 favorites]


"As an engineer, I would like to defer to my colleagues in the social sciences to solve this entrenched societal problem to which a purely technical solution would be inappropriate."
posted by griphus at 2:28 PM on August 31, 2015 [3 favorites]


Despite affection for Metafilter spanning years, I fear it has become uncomfortably reminiscent of Stormfront

Wow. Just... wow. That is some grade-A bullshit right these. Woooooow.
posted by sarcasticah at 2:46 PM on August 31, 2015


This thread is just getting...well, yeah.
posted by nubs at 2:47 PM on August 31, 2015


Read 100% of the hundreds of comments as of shortly before midnight last night, and now see there are more, which I have not yet tried to count or to read. I may not, or return to it later after this has been closed.

Account
Earnest, real person. First and only account. Never tried to post on front page. Read Metafilter for years without account, mostly not reading comments, never realizing high degree of moderation, never exploring other parts of site. Ffwd. Delighted with redesign, joined. No significance to July 2nd. Was happy. After first few deletions, added moderating moderators line to profile. Returned to passive consumption​.​ Posted confusing question to wrong section with wrong kind and amount of explanation.

User Friendliness
There were strong mutual misunderstandings, and I take my share of the blame for unfriendly behavior, but new users will be confused by Metafilter. Metafilter is equally to blame for unfriendly design and more than a dab of cryptic, sarcastic, condescending culture. It's true I did not exactly bother to read the entire FAQ page. But most websites don't require people do that to get by fine, and it's unreasonable to expect people trying out the site to initially devote that much time to get "the lay of the land." I am not even a new consumer. I've been reading the front page for years. It should not be "on new users", but "on Metafilter itself", to become significantly less ambiguous and easier to use. Maybe Metafilter prides itself on being hard to use, and that is a sentiment I'm familiar with, but you know, it's 2015, not 1995.

Editors
Did not understand MeFi moderators are more like 'editors with absolute control​ and ability to atomize content, with no obligation to ​​explain unless asked or to return work to the original author'. In other places, moderators ​often transfer misplaced content or give a complete explanation before removing it from public view, but always leave your work privately in your possession. ​I have never​ seen things​ vanish into thin air, except on Metafilter. ​Things might get de-publicized for good reason, but generally, you get to retain access to your work by default even if you did not have the foresight to save it elsewhere.

No Conspiracy, Just Eccentric Deletion Policies + Jargon
In contrast​ to what I had feared​ was some kind of evil conspiracy, I see now I had ​​misunderstood the purpose of AskMeF​i, so there is no good reason to believe this moderator was being specifically unfair to me. Especially having now inhaled more eccentric Metafilter policies and jargon, it seems highly likely the AskMeFi moderation​ I got​ from ​Jeremy was ​​totally clear and kosher. I see that, so I have emailed Jeremy with an apology, providing clarifications for my personally misinterpreting it as political moderation. Metafilter does sometimes have challenges with political evenhandedness and intuitiveness of use, which also contributed, but this is not the end of the world.

Word/Picture Salad
I'm lucky to have found in real life hundreds of people with whom I can toss such crazy dense salads, and they understand. I'm accustomed to impulsive, simultaneous, multidimensional, and multidirectional strands of inquiry (you know, it's less a single strand of hair so much as a French braid or a huge Afro of a question; less a cup of tea and more a fire hose of tea directly attached to your mouth), but have long been fortunate enough to immerse myself in a strong network of people who get me. I definitely take that for granted, so it makes sense my AskMeFi post of this thought experiment mainly came across to people who don't know me as word/picture salad or opaque performance art. At this point, I don't want to waste more of people's time with this. But in the dying spirit of demystification:

Original Question
I originally wanted people to weigh in on whether they think it is possible to get to a point where everyone on the planet can look in the mirror and see "human being" instead of some non-alpha label. That would have been clear to anyone who had taken the time to click on the explanatory link with the white guy that was a captioned gif. I opted against my own explanation in favor of brevity, which may have only confused more. In the captions, he is upset because he abruptly understands based on a conversation he overhears that when he looks in the mirror, he sees "human being", whereas the white woman sees "woman", and the black woman sees "black woman". So I was asking, does a pregnant lady see when she looks in the mirror?

Variations
I was asking whether we could somehow combine the new gender ambiguous bathroom symbol with someone bursting at the seams with pregnancy. I was asking if we could get entrepreneurs and brogrammers to think of themselves as visibly pregnant with creativity in the form of memes, solutions, and companies. Business folks often refer to pre-IPOs as babies, so the analogy fit somewhat. I was asking if such an intentional, symbolic additive humanization of the third trimester pregnant person could be part of the key to getting better parental leave policies, and more welcome for the working, reproducing women in male-dominated careers.

Clarifications
I was asking what people if they think such a widespread strategy could work; the strategy of also accepting as normal those who are visibly bursting with pregnancy, literally or figuratively, on top of people who are not pregnant, cannot be pregnant, chose not to be pregnant, or are not visibly pregnant; the strategy of someone bursting at the seams with pregnancy as a metaphor for all highly creative people, including those trying to "birth" a company or a movement; the strategy of accepting this as *another*, not *the*, concept for default human, say, in contrast to the stick figure bathroom sign.

Resolution
Even if all I wanted was to ask people if they feel this is possible/desirable/fair, it is all pretty complicated to spell out, so AskMeFi was the wrong place to try to do it. Also, didn't know about non-self linking. It is was an image and not a landing page I'd linked to, and visits to that image are neither tracked nor monetized FWIW. I just wanted to share what I'd been looking at when the question popped into my head, so there is more context. I was trying to do the equivalent of sketching concepts on a napkin, hoping it would more quickly get ideas across for examination.

Understanding
BTW, judging by the new private messages I have received, some people 100% understood what I was trying to originally ask, if clumsily, and I am extremely happy with and touched by the amount of thoughtfulness encountered.

Relevance of Gender/Queerness
I've thought about this, and the most important person who deserves the option to understand what was involved in the misinterpretation is Jeremy, who has received a gmail with an attempt at explanation.

Upset
In brief, I was upset at the high likelihood that I may be getting pigeonholed and shut down on Metafilter for mentioning pregnancy at all as a potentially positive rather than negative thing. As should be clear from the already too complex question I wanted to ask, I was not going to touch abortion with a 10-foot-pole. I am a lifelong straight ally of the LGBTQ community and have personally dealt with painful silencing and dismissal from queer people born as females in my life who have repeatedly and preemptively annihilated me with friendly fire. A few keywords, or even just the wrong pronoun by accident, and they mistakenly think I am trying to push an agenda of heteronormativity, stunted feminism, traditional marriage, or motherhood on them. People who are really trying to do that definitely exist, but I am not one of them.

Jewelry
I wish I could wear an elegant necklace or bracelet that quietly broadcasts the message, "Please bang whomever and however many as you please so long as there is informed consent, and do marriage and children only if you really want, because they will be hard work. All I ask is that you be more patient and curious before you jump to the conclusion I am trying to mess things up for you, especially if you are intentionally opting for ambiguity and privacy as opposed to clarity and transparency." I have fear about being unfairly misunderstood and punished. I have sadness that the queer community, which can always use more friends, often mis-identifies their friends as enemies, sometimes as a result of strategies specifically adopted build a safe environment for itself.

Stormfront
Maybe Stormfront was an extreme example, but I do feel Metafilter can be a lot more homogeneous than it wants to admit especially when it comes to espousing hyperliberal or hyperlibertarian schools of politics. This is how the website has always been presented to me. Am I wrong? I could be wrong. But that is the impression I got, and it made me sad, because I like Metafilter, and don't want it to fall irrevocably into an unexamined chasm of holier-than-thou self-righteousness.

We all need hugs.
posted by knowgood at 3:27 PM on August 31, 2015 [2 favorites]


"...entrenched societal problem to which a purely technical solution would be inappropriate"

Is this from the lost diaries of Dr. Ley?
posted by clavdivs at 3:28 PM on August 31, 2015


"it's less a single strand of hair so much as a French braid or a huge Afro of a question; less a cup of tea and more a fire hose of tea directly attached to your..."

Your analogies are...distrubing.
posted by clavdivs at 3:32 PM on August 31, 2015 [8 favorites]


For the love of fuzzy little puppies, OP, stop digging. You really are only making yourself look more like a pretentious, oblivious tantrum-thrower with every "explanation." Blaming everyone else for the fact that your posts were deleted is really not helping your cause, here.
posted by sarcasticah at 3:33 PM on August 31, 2015 [17 favorites]


A pithy "I goofed badly, and will try to learn the site and do better next time" would also have worked.
posted by MonkeyToes at 3:35 PM on August 31, 2015 [17 favorites]


knowgood, just briefly, it's an old site, it's got a lot of entrenched culture and social expectations, and I really encourage you to lurk more and get a better sense of what those are before launching into more conversations here.

Your personal views on gender or sexuality or abortion or all that other stuff -- it's probably better not to get into that here. I don't see an upside to having that discussion in this venue.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 3:36 PM on August 31, 2015 [8 favorites]


Knowgood: If you ask, the mods will mail you a copy of what you wrote. You do retain ownership of your words. They will honor that.

Plus, deleted questions are still visible. But if you want a copy of deleted comments, that is easily gotten, no big.

(Hugs)
posted by Michele in California at 3:37 PM on August 31, 2015 [1 favorite]


OP, you are communicating your thoughts badly/belligerently/unclearly and I think you should take a deep breath and walk away from this thread. Also, STOP USING RESTLESS_NOMAD'S REAL NAME IN THIS THREAD. As multiple people have mentioned--though you admit to not reading all the comments--that is REALLY uncool.
posted by leesh at 3:40 PM on August 31, 2015 [12 favorites]


> Relevance of Gender/Queerness
I've thought about this, and the most important person who deserves the option to understand what was involved in the misinterpretation


Deserves the option to understand the misinterpretation? Could you be more obfuscatory?

Whose misinterpretation? And of what? Your own, of how askme and the rules there work? Of how a woman could possibly call herself Jeremy? That we are supposed to know that you're a good LGBT ally and couldn't possibly have meant some shitty gender policing interpretation of that? Or what.
posted by rtha at 3:41 PM on August 31, 2015 [29 favorites]


Wow, the unfrozen caveman gambit with a seemless transition to the Chewbacca defense. Add on a Triple Lindy and I see Olympic trolling gold in your future.
posted by tonycpsu at 3:43 PM on August 31, 2015 [16 favorites]


I was upset at the high likelihood that I may be getting pigeonholed and shut down on Metafilter for mentioning pregnancy at all as a potentially positive rather than negative thing.

I mean, like, a lot of Mefites think pregnancy is ok? Many even have children? This makes no sense. What do you want from this community? I don't think we can give it to you.
posted by leesh at 3:43 PM on August 31, 2015 [22 favorites]


Oh fucking hell enough already. Your question was deleted for not being a question. That's all. For this, you blew up and sneered at us all with condescending expositions about the "site culture", have blown this out of all proportion, and this Circus of You is fucking tiresome.

There is literally nothing to be gained from letting this transparent troll continue their wank parade. This is clearly a BND with a chip on their shoulder and my vote is for shutting this down.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 3:49 PM on August 31, 2015 [25 favorites]


Can we close this unproductive shit show and consider starting a new meta where we talk about how to never let this happen again? I see no good coming from this.
posted by Michele in California at 3:53 PM on August 31, 2015 [6 favorites]


🌽 🔥 🍚 🍺
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:54 PM on August 31, 2015 [3 favorites]


Knowgood:

* your initial question was not deleted for reasons of content. It was deleted because the rules of AskMe dictate that questions posted there not be philosophical musings - they are meant to be actual concrete problems which you are trying to solve. If you were in a symbology class and you were working on a class assignment which required you "redesign the default human symbol so it isn't a male figure," and you asked your question because "please let me know if you think this idea has merit for the class project I am doing", your question may have stayed, because it is a question about a concrete problem in that context. The context I which you asked your question was more of a "did you ever consider this, just for the sake of considering it," and such a context is not what AskMe is meant for.

* to answer your original question - the arguments you make concerning the validity of a pregnant female as the default symbol for humanity are credible, but they miss the context in which such symbology developed. Several thousand years of patriarchy cannot be swept aside simply by observing that "well, we're all pregnant with ideas at some point." Thus, while you make a credible point, it is a point that cannot be put into any real practical worldwide use. Perhaps it is a credo you could personally live by, but not really a movement that would have any real success. Which is all the more reason that the debate of such a topic is unsuitable for AskMe.

* we appreciate you speak with your friends in this particular fashion and about these particular topics. We invite you to remember that we are different people, who have come to different conclusions about your tone and manner of speaking. Many people find it wise to adapt their own tone and word choice given their present audience; comments that your tone sounds condescending and off-putting could therefore be taken as advice that perhaps you should speak to us differently than the manner in which you speak to your friends.

* you have been repeatedly asked not to refer to restless-nomad by the name "Jeremy " and yet you persist in doing so. I invite you to consider whether, in your zeal to present "hyper liberal" topics, you have possibly inadvertently oppressed someone by not complying with a specific and concrete request that has been made if you several times in this thread concerning a name preference. I trust that you wouldn't similarly refer to Caitlin Jenner as "Bruce", so I cannot understand this blind spot in this instance.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:58 PM on August 31, 2015 [13 favorites]


Oh, and finally -

* no, the site's moderation culture is not "ridiculous". It is sound.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:00 PM on August 31, 2015 [3 favorites]


Yeah, I'm going to close this up, since I think the answerable part of the question "why was this AskMe deleted" has been answered and OP's had a chance to air their side. As far as the site-related issues here, it's about future behavior at this point.

knowgood has a chance to step back and re-evaluate and read up in order to understand more of the site norms etc. You can also touch base with us directly if you have questions on site culture. Reach us at the contact form, linked in the bottom right corner of every page. That address is staffed 24/7 and you'll get a more-or-less immediate reply.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 4:03 PM on August 31, 2015 [27 favorites]


« Older Metafilter on the A.V. Club!   |   Who from MeFi contacted me right after Katrina? Newer »

This thread is closed to new comments.