quasi-anonymous nastygram specially for you

August 7, 2003 2:08 PM

while for obvious reasons omidius' initial retort did not bother me too much, I'd say the subsequent quasi-anonymous nastygram received by email was rather too much. while I can't take back my relaxed response, he's certainly not going to get any candy. no candy for you!!
posted by dorian to Etiquette/Policy at 2:08 PM (59 comments total)

also, you made donna cry.
posted by dorian at 2:08 PM on August 7, 2003

Well, are you going to post the 'quasi-anonymous nastygram' or not? Why else take it to MeTa?
posted by widdershins at 2:15 PM on August 7, 2003

Which came first; the nasty e-mail or got it, thanks? What time was the e-mail sent, not received?
posted by thomcatspike at 2:23 PM on August 7, 2003

it looks like the got it, thanks came about 4 mins after the email. which at first I thought was just more ranting about snobbery and spelling (and which is why I didn't really think it worth posting). but now that I look at it, I can see why it made donna upset:

> from Objective Criticism
> email no email
> Thu Aug 7 12:20:41 EDT 2003
> pool-68-163-65-149.res.east.verizon.net 68.163.65.149
> message
> A couple things. First, your snobbery of MeFi is extremely old and
> useless. Try being more constructive, the world doesn\'t need another
> my-shit-don\'t-smell asian.
>
> Your site, if you even try to consider yourself a web designer think
> again: 1) your site doesn\'t operate properly in IE (82% of internet
> users use it) or Netscape (12% of users use it). If you were missing
> out on 94% of internet users, what creative director would look to you
> for making the right choice?
>
> Second, your text fields are not intuitive. Third, you have multiple
> misspellings in your site, get a dictionary. Fourth, get the MLA book
> of english style and look up the proper methods for citation and
> copyright declaration.


bloody hell or some junk. racist much?
posted by dorian at 2:28 PM on August 7, 2003

omidius: anything to say for yourself?
posted by bshort at 2:32 PM on August 7, 2003

Asians don't have smelly shit?
posted by mr_crash_davis at 3:04 PM on August 7, 2003

I can see why it made donna upset
The plot thickens.
posted by thomcatspike at 3:23 PM on August 7, 2003

Stan Chin, can we get your official word on this?
posted by dhoyt at 3:31 PM on August 7, 2003

My shit's fragrance and texture is not unlike tofu, with a delicate consistancy like the play-doh star mold machine you used to play with as a young child, except it comes out of my fucking yellow ass.
posted by Stan Chin at 3:40 PM on August 7, 2003 [1 favorite]

mathowie can check the IP address against omidius's account, right? Using information in Metafilter's personal pages to harass someone shouldn't be tolerated.
posted by eddydamascene at 3:45 PM on August 7, 2003

I find these "whistle blowing threads" bizarre. There's no consequence to seek, is there? And it's highly unlikely everyone will see it the same way. Seems like tattling, but without an authority figure.

Or: on preview - it looks like eddydamascene is making a plea to one. Will it pan out? I thought self-policing was in the tagline.
posted by scarabic at 3:49 PM on August 7, 2003

the world doesn\'t need another
> my-shit-don\'t-smell asian.

In the absence of apology, explanation or even contact details, I'd say: Mefi don't need no steenkin' racists!
posted by dash_slot- at 3:51 PM on August 7, 2003

Mefi don't need no steenkin' racists!

That would eliminate, oh, 99.9% of everyone here. ;-P
posted by mischief at 4:05 PM on August 7, 2003

A MeFi user tells another user:
"the world doesn't need another my-shit-don't-smell asian."

Then, when they find out they were totally in error, they offer the apology:
"got it, thanks"

I say we ban the racist bastard.
posted by y6y6y6 at 4:09 PM on August 7, 2003

I certainly was not (and am not) seeking any consequences. well, other than letting omidius know that we will never, ever give him candy.

I thought MeTa (and to a lesser extent, MeFi, heh) were like those little notes the French or Romans or whoever used to push thru the little decorative slot...
posted by dorian at 4:15 PM on August 7, 2003

Interesting justice system we've developed here in Metatalk.
posted by PrinceValium at 4:17 PM on August 7, 2003

those little notes the French or Romans or whoever used to push thru the little decorative slot...

I'm not getting the reference. Want to elaborate?

It just seems to me that flagging a particular instance of unacceptable behavior is not scalable in this interface. This forum should be a place to form and discuss policy, not a ticket system.
posted by scarabic at 4:23 PM on August 7, 2003

That would eliminate, oh, 99.9% of everyone here. ;-P

And the other 0.1% are homophobes so why haven't we vanished in a puff of irrelevance??
posted by WolfDaddy at 4:39 PM on August 7, 2003

Interesting justice system we've developed here in Metatalk.

i was just thinking that myself, PV. i wouldn't know what i might do if i were to come upon y6 stuck up to his family jewels in one of them crevasses he keeps leaping over. i guess i'd just wait around until some anonymous email told me what to do.
posted by quonsar at 5:15 PM on August 7, 2003

Hey, let's all get tgether and hang the racist from a tree!
posted by fuzz at 5:21 PM on August 7, 2003

not getting the reference

it was supposed to be a joke comparing MeTa to those denuntiator dealies or whatever it is they used in Rome. to be honest I don't read MeTa that often, and the few times I did seemed to always contain those whistle blowing type threads, heh. but I never saw it as a justice system (hence the attempted witticism) nor was I trying to treat it as one (I think...).

not scalable in this interface

good point, but...

discuss policy, not a ticket system

that implies some sort of process and resolution; I merely wanted to say "nyah", so I did.

if a complaint is made purely for the sake of making it, with no desire or expectation for consequences, does it have any purpose?
posted by dorian at 6:25 PM on August 7, 2003

only in a forest
posted by inpHilltr8r at 6:46 PM on August 7, 2003

if a complaint is made purely for the sake of making it, with no desire or expectation for consequences, does it have any purpose?

Well, we now know what a dick omidius is.
posted by timeistight at 7:06 PM on August 7, 2003

Fuck him/her... ban his/her sorry ass.

If (if is the operative word here) in fact a user is taking personal information from this site and using it to send harassing email to another member it shouldn't be tolerated.

I understand that anyone could have done the same and it's impossible to police everyone, but it seems foolish not to address the issue if it's established as a fact. I know this is the kind of administrative crap Matt hates, but in this case it seems worth pursuing... of course that's easy for me to say, it's not my time or site.
posted by cedar at 7:13 PM on August 7, 2003

It just seems to me that flagging a particular instance of unacceptable behavior is not scalable in this interface. This forum should be a place to form and discuss policy, not a ticket system.

Such as the policy of what to do about said member in question. If you take a look at previous threads, you'll note that this is exactly the sort of thing MT is often used for. What better way to discuss policy than when an example arises?
posted by The God Complex at 7:23 PM on August 7, 2003

all i can say is that is 'way out of line'. nobody should be allowed to get away with that.

while it's obvious omidius was having a bad day (like many of us do) i think he ducked under the mefi decency radar with his email and should explain himself, apologise or fuck off.
posted by carfilhiot at 7:28 PM on August 7, 2003

I hate gay black people... SO MUCH!!!
posted by Hildago at 7:38 PM on August 7, 2003

... and the French!!!
posted by mischief at 7:46 PM on August 7, 2003

grumpy offay suckuhs be da worst.
posted by quonsar at 7:54 PM on August 7, 2003

I hate all of you.

(Just in case you were wondering)
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 7:56 PM on August 7, 2003

see?
posted by quonsar at 8:01 PM on August 7, 2003

Well well well, I see you guys have been quite the busy bees without me!!!

For the record, I am gay, I am black and I am french. Now, that being said,

Dorian: I'd like to offer my SINCEREST apology for the way I snapped by sending you that rather nasty note (rereading it makes me hang my head in shame), rather disgusted for letting my anger get control of me in that fashion. I was further escalating the matter by implying you were a part of a stereotype I have experienced before - that is not the case. The response was illtimed, thoughtless and quite abhorrent- moreover it was directed at the wrong issue (a result of a really really bad day). Please accept. If I made anyone cry - sorry. It seems the only one with smell-less shit disorder was me.

All others; I am truly not a racist - so please assign a ticket in my username (I deserve it), and cedar, I kindly refuse to fuck myself in the name of personal ethics.

thanks for hearing/reading me out.

PS: I'm not gay, black or french. Not that there's anything wrong with any of those people....okay, maybe the french - j/k.
posted by omidius at 10:23 PM on August 7, 2003

Spoilsport! ;-P
posted by mischief at 10:31 PM on August 7, 2003

what mischief just said.

nah, no worries. as mischief said earlier, we are all racists in one way or another. the whole tribal conflict thing is pre-wired into our heads and not even the best of us can avoid it sometimes.

to be honest, I found the whole chain of events somewhat amusing, since it was quite the comedy (tragedy?) of errors, beginning with my own mis-post. funny how far such a silly little thing went, no?

donna said that she felt a little bit harassed by the mail, but I think she also found humor in the overall situation.
posted by dorian at 10:46 PM on August 7, 2003

Woo Hoo! Let's trash this thread now!
posted by Stan Chin at 10:47 PM on August 7, 2003

nothing says "ok maybe you can have some candy after all" like baby turtles


posted by dorian at 11:03 PM on August 7, 2003

ooh, ooh, chocolate, caramel, pecans...

"Do it to me, Chewy. Chew me outta my mind."
posted by mischief at 11:27 PM on August 7, 2003

What better way to discuss policy than when an example arises?

Very true. And that is what often happens. But there's no effort to distill the policy/pattern from the example here, and there is theoretically no limit to the number of times someone can post "I didn't like what person X did." That's why I said it wouldn't scale, not that it was a dumb thing to do in concept.

I agree the racist email is pretty fucked up. Arguably to the level of reporting to the community at large. We seem to have gotten to the bottom of what happened. So does anyone want to discuss hateful 1-to-1 email following a spat in a thread? What do we do about it? Ban the suspect? Report on a case-by-case basis? Ignore it? Say "nyah" on MeTa and make the perp apologize?

btw - omidius:

" I was further escalating the matter by implying you were a part of a stereotype I have experienced before - that is not the case."

So you're saying that there are "my shit don't stink asians" out there, but you've decided on second though that dorian isn't one of them. That's great. Very big of you.
posted by scarabic at 11:55 PM on August 7, 2003

Well put scarabic.
posted by dash_slot- at 1:26 AM on August 8, 2003

I personally have seen real life examples of almost every offensive stereotype, racial or otherwise, out there. As (I am sure) have most of you. But to mention that in the context of his apology was rather boneheaded of omidius. But then, if he were capable of a perfect apology, he most likely would've been able to avoid needing to apologize in the first place, dontchathink?

Am I in the right thread?
posted by wendell at 1:53 AM on August 8, 2003

Am I in the right website?
posted by lazaruslong at 2:12 AM on August 8, 2003

I just want some candy, damn it.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 2:24 AM on August 8, 2003

WolfDaddy tried to give me sugardaddies once. I felt funny about it, hopped on my motor scooter, and left.

Does that make me a homonymaphobe?

Go MeFi Tribe!
posted by lazaruslong at 2:36 AM on August 8, 2003

how utterly bizarre.
posted by Frasermoo at 3:42 AM on August 8, 2003

oooh hatchlings! *i heart turtles*
posted by dabitch at 5:35 AM on August 8, 2003

So now Matt is responsible for policing private email communications between two members? C'mon, people, we're all (mostly) adults here. Quit piling your crap on his doorstep.
posted by rushmc at 5:45 AM on August 8, 2003

dorian, I really enjoyed looking through your site. ...your sketchbook, your figure drawings, so fresh and ooohyes. thanks.
posted by spandex at 6:27 AM on August 8, 2003

Hey Rushmc:

'Member that time you bombarded me with a series of nasty emails out of the blue because you thought I was brown-nosing Matt in MeTa, which I observed as strange because, after all, you'd supposedly quit MeFi weeks before, and you subsequently admitted that you were happy to be leaving MeFi as sticking around only exacerbated your anger problems and you'd be much happier elsewhere anyway (I'll spare you the embarassment of copy-pasting the emails), and then months later in this thread you claimed the incident never happened, painting us all a bunch of rubes and "sheeple" in the most bizarre expression of denial since the OJ trial? Remember that?

Good times, good times.
posted by dhoyt at 7:45 AM on August 8, 2003

I don't the original poster was looking for Matt to do any particular policing, rushmc. Even without any action, I think this sort of thread has a certain amount of value. It tells us a lot about the people involved in an incident. Based on mefi the thread, we knew that omidius was overly defensive and not inclined to careful reading. From this meta thread, we now also know he tends to inflammatory email containing racist statements, and half-assed apologies. All of that is useful for evaluating who to engage in discussion and how.
posted by jacquilynne at 7:59 AM on August 8, 2003

Nothing on the internet ever dies.
posted by norm at 8:08 AM on August 8, 2003

Nothing on the internet ever dies.

Tell it to the big 404 in the sky ;)
posted by trondant at 8:33 AM on August 8, 2003

so, every single time a user gets a nasty, angry e-mail from another user are we supposed to open a MeTa thread about it and do a collective post-mortem on the e-mail's wording?
Or are we only supposed to post threads about nasty, angry, racist e-mails?
Guidelines, anyone?

my guess is, if you can't take the occasional bit of e-mail abuse, you're skin is way too soft
posted by matteo at 9:18 AM on August 8, 2003

*Emails matteo some "Ecolife Aloe Vera Moisturing Day Creme" spam.*
posted by ginz at 9:56 AM on August 8, 2003

yeah, like you're the first to do that to my e-mail account, ginz
posted by matteo at 10:20 AM on August 8, 2003

"so, every single time a user gets a nasty, angry e-mail we supposed to open a MeTa thread about it"

Yes.

I'm sure Matt and many others don't like it, but the fact remains that one of the best parts of MetaTalk is the tradition of peer reviewed flame wars we have here. Where else can you have your trolling and flames evaluated and discussed in such detail?

Taking off-MeFi nastiness to MeTa is a new twist, but the next time someone tries it we can deconstruct that as well.
posted by y6y6y6 at 11:57 AM on August 8, 2003

Not that it matters anymore, but dorian was comparing MeTa to a system of trial by anonymous accusation used in Venice. I learned this from an insanely condescending and self-important Venetian tour guide earlier this summer. She seemed to regard this process as the apex of democratic governance.
posted by donnagirl at 12:22 PM on August 8, 2003

thank you donnagirl, I could not for the life of me remember much more than a shred about that, or even find a good reference to it. ah, now that brings back thoughts of sugar being processed with resources from the local ossuary...

spandex: I merely built the site, content is 100% donna's. I'm sure she'd appreciate a positive note (for a change, ha ha) thru the contact interface though.

dabitch: turtles are nearly 2 years old now. they now resemble little green UFOs with legs and ridiculously bottomless stomachs.
posted by dorian at 1:30 PM on August 8, 2003

If some motherfucker ever told me the text fields on my website were not intuitive, I'd slap their momma and burn their house down!

Loser.
posted by dcgartn at 5:48 PM on August 8, 2003

hate to be the pedant (no i don't, not really - see), but whatever kind of day you have, using the phrase "my-shit-don't smell asian" seems a bit odd. or maybe i'm just totally lost in a different culture - is this a popular phrase? in my little world, if you use a phrase like that, then apologise, it means you're a decent person, but it doesn't mean you're not racist, if you follow my double negatives. i know that there's a strong presumed link between someone having a racist attitude and being evil incarnate, but really it ain't so - i know a lot of people here in oh-so-uncosmopolitan santiago who have the most amazing opinions about other races, through simple ignorance. they're ordinary, friendly, nice people, but they're racist (at least on my understanding of the term).

hmmm. i guess this is just the old "racist attitudes through ignorance don't mean you're a racist" debate (with me on the dissenting side). move along folks, nothing new here...
posted by andrew cooke at 7:42 AM on August 9, 2003